Qur'an references force worldwide LittleBigPlanet recall Comments by Tom Bramwell

'No, the religion doesn't promote the actions of a few extremists, but it is still the cause. '

How does that make sense? You admit the religion doesnt promote it, but is still the cause? Explain.

DaDon123456, did you even read my post? I distinctly said that such acts are NOT promoted by the religion, but it's still because of the religion that such extremists do such actions!

@PixelLive

I'm not religious either. I was born into a Christian family but as an adult chose not to hold religious beliefs. I do believe religion is the root of many evils, but I won't condone prepubescent idiots calling the Muslim people 'fucking cunts' etc, because Sony messed up by not understanding the content of their own game and realising that people do not want morbid chants of doom and death accompanying their children's favourite game. It's not Islams fault that Sony screwed up. It just seems that many of the people here are using this mishap as just another excuse to vent their bigoted views.

They do such in the name of religion, which in my opinion is a relic of an uneducated and uncivilized time, one where order needed the face of a deity to keep it in check. The modern world doesn't need it. It's more trouble than its worth. It's been the source of wars. And regardless of what the Qur'an teaches, it's the cause of people who are more than happy to kill in its name.

Hmm, an interesting one and for some reason I generally agree with a recall, but I'm not even sure why. I don't want to piss off Muslims, or any religions, particularly. Even though I disagree with the whole nature of all religions and believe it to be all a bit of nonsense, it's still a pretty thorny issue and there's no point in Sony fanning what could end up being massive flames.

The only thing is, and could someone more informed please tell me, but I thought it was only a problem to say the name of God out loud or something like that, so featuring just a few random quotations from the Qu'ran.. is there something wrong with that?? (I'm thinking it's more the wording of the quotes more than anything that may be the reason, and perhaps ironically the recall is more to protect us Western 'Christians' from hearing passages from Muslim texts in our games, though only some small minded section of deep south America would kick up a fuss...)

PixelLive did you read my post?

Let me explain to you if I didnt make it clear. Quaran/Islam DOES NOT PROMOTE VIOLENCE. Full stop.
So how can extremists carry their acts out because of Quaran/Islam. How can you blame the religion if the religion condems it? How can you say the extremists carry out violence because of the book, religion, when it is completely against it?
I think they do what they do because of another reason. But please explain the above.

citizenHUNTER please read my post at 23:38pm for your answer. BTW I am not Muslim.

My argument, Gradius, is that the game should not be changed because of a religion. And my opinions aren't bigoted, although I am using this to vent them..., I'm just genuinely frustrated at the delay, particularly for something so stupid.

I wouldn't even be shouting my head off if the original complainer's suggestion, that the song be patched out and removed from future disks, was used instead of the whole game being delayed! :D

And I totally agree with you about some of the reactions I've read to this. In fact I can imagine solid08's PS3 inbox getting flooded with angry messages from such idiots!

PixelLive you posted your answer before I managed to finish mine. But I think my point still stands. If a parent tells his son never to smoke, and reminds him everyday, yet the boy still does it, can you blame the parent? Nope, you blame other factors.

Muslims ca be very closed minded. Minority religion in Muslim countries are never treated the same - sentenced with threats of prisonment, death, unfair treatment to education & work etc etc etc...With history Islam has had a lot of forceful conversions which has inc rape of women, and mass murder for the so called kuffhas (non muslim).

Islam has become a sort Nazi religion - if your not part of it your not welcome. It has not changed or caught on wth the modern world, as many Islamic countries continue to hate non muslims. With Saudhi Arabia adding versus to Koran to parts of the txt which inc kill the Jews & Christians and non musilims...with preaches in mosques inc women saying kill gays, lesbians, non muslims and also forcing women to be fully covered in veils by threats and discrimination tactics , with preaching fictional anti-Islam history without truth & being very wrong, with fundamental teachings teachings that inc cutting of animals genitals if shown (as in parts of Afghanistan), by keeping women uneducated and a slave to the man, where women circumstance is considered fine by some muslim scholars, where various different sects of Islam fight and kill each other, where continues promises of virgins are brainwashed into suicide bombers if they do a jihad, where chopping of heads of non muslims in encouraged at schools.

With many more of what really is happening in Islam itself, it never really seems to sort it's problems within it's own religion - yet is willing to cause riots with death and threats against the world without any tolerance shown towards any form other criticism / view / humor... though muslims do and have constantly criticized & threatend anything that they feel is not Islamic; which have included death threats and murder, jihads, fatwas, and speaches with vulgar aggressive emotions!...I also remember a fatwa was put on Pokemon!

We're crossing wires here, DaDon123456. I have acknowledged, and never said otherwise, that the Qur'an does not promote violence. BUT PEOPLE CAUSE VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGION. I don't understand why you're not parsing what I'm saying. It's an undeniable fact. Religion of all kinds has caused violence and war; look at the Crusades! And how certain Muslims perceive their own religion is causing acts of violence today!

Your smoking analogy really doesn't work here.

@TRUTH
I used to think like you. But then I searched for these criticisms in the Quaran. They are not there. Those things you mentiomed are not even part of the religion. Dont believe me? Read the Book.

has anyone ever listened to Qawali? There is no difference in my opinion to the way music and quranic ayats are used in qawali then in the way they are used in LBP. after listening to the sample, i conclude it is probably qawali. One of the things in qawali is that it is used to bring out an intense spiritual awakening for the listener. Still if people can realise the reality of the beautiful words of the Qu'ran than all the better and if not... well so be it.

I would love to see this article's comments section closed. Freedom of speech is one thing, but stupidity on this scale doesn't deserve a voice...

PixelLive you are not understanding my point. Ill be as clear as possible.
I can kill and rape anyone I want in the name of Democracy. So now are you going to blame Democracy for my ignorance?
You talk about the Crusades. The Christians can argue that Jesus condems the crusades.
I can cause VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF ATIESM. Does that mean Atheism is evil? Bottom Line = Unless the belief or law promotes evil, you cant blame the belief or law for people using it as an excuse to kill!
Let us assume that there is this bloke called Allah. Is it his fault that his followers are not doing what he says to do in his book? Please answer.

@Turnip_of_Doom: You may be drunk, worringly you are also one of the most sensible persons in this thread.

I still believe what i write in previous comments (above)...The main problem is Islam is everyone sees it in a different way and end up interpreting it in different ways - the taliban. So the fact is religion as Islam is not perfect!

You're misunderstanding me completely and applying this to completely unrelated concepts. In my opinion religion, as a concept, has no place in the modern world. Islam is a particularly odd case as it affects the laws and societies of many countries and not for the better.

You're taking what I'm saying as "Oh, because a relatively few (although still significant) number of people interpret Islamic teachings as one way, the whole thing should be abolished", whereas I'm actually saying it's simply indicative of why the whole thing isn't needed! I don't think the good which is what, hope of something beyond this plane? outweighs this relatively small and technically untaught extremist views? In my opinion such a small offshoot is enough to question the need for the whole thing in today's world? Maybe this opinion stems from my confusion as to being able to belief nonsense about a God of any sort. But I don't think I'm ignorant. And I can understand why someone sympathetic such as yourself would find issue with what I believe.

I do know, unlike many horrid people (BNP assholes spring to mind) that Muslims aren't all terrorists. :p

One thing that annoys me about Islam in particular is that it's still so invested in the laws and societies of many countries. The same could be said about us in the west with Christianity at one point, but it seems that the Western world, from a judicial and governmental level at least, has outgrown its religious roots. Separation of Church and State. But many primarily Islamic countries are still bound by something very much out of date, despite what Ijtihad has changed.

And no, I haven't read the Qur'an. I have no quibbles with anything it teaches. I don't have a real problem with Islam itself, either. My problems lies with the concept of religion as a whole and how certain people do interpret it.

"There is nothing wrong with religion when the main faiths tend to preach love & forgiveness"

What's wrong with religion is that it's ridiculous. Love and forgiveness are fine but to practice them only because you believe in fairytales is ridiculous.

And as for blaming the fundamentalists: Without mainstream religious people we wouldn't be bothered by those idiots either. Problem with religion is that there's no place you can draw a rational line because it's all irrational bullshit. Anyone basing their morality or walk in life on the preachings of some illiterate, uncivilised idiot that lived hundreds of years ago before all the major scientific findings deserves nothing but pitty.

Educate people, kill religion.

TRUTH
Everyone will always have their own interpretations. That is inevitable. But what you say is not even in the Quaran. The Quaran only appears to say inciteful things when you take it out of context. But when you read it properly you see that there is no hate at all.
If you wish to hate Islam or the Quaran, that is up to you. But at least have a legitimate reason to hate it. Again I say to you read the Quaran. If your not going to then stop posting ignorant comments about something that you have no knowledge of.

Turnip_of_Doom, Philanthropy... charity. In today's world they do not need to face of a deity.

That's my whole argument. It's more trouble than its worth, it's a relic from a simpler time and whilst core values may be good, they are human values, not religious ones.

DaDon123456 you sound like a fucking islamic preacher! Take your Bs else where, this is a gamers forum, most here dont give a flying fuck about any religion especially in this climate where its distorted to kill in the name of some imagery fuck no one has ever met.

And Allah is fictional, have you met him yet? No didnt think so. Next youll be tellling me you believe in ghosts.

Sony and everyone else involved in trying to resolve this issue reminds me alot of the goody-two-shoes who in the early 1900's wanted to close down the freak shows believing that the performers were being abused, violated and not given their rights or whatever else. But then the circus acts had nowhere to go and ended up in a far worse situation, if the goodytwoshoes had left them alone, the circus performers would have been far better off. in some ways, whoever is trying to do this is going to end up giving muslims and islam a bad name.

On top of that i can't believe some of the comments here, is this what you folks are really like apart from being video-gamers?

"The Quaran only appears to say inciteful things when you take it out of context. But when you read it properly you see that there is no hate at all."

Which would be fine except that there is no way to read it properly and the idiotic fundamentalists have just as much a claim on the proper reading as someone moderate has. Religous texts are, because of their age, completely out of touch with the world we live in. To use them as infallible guidelines nowadays is lunacy.

I have looked into it, I have muslim friends who actually agree that Islam is become very hateful and intolerant. The problem is that the Qu' aran does talk about non muslims as poison and the same about gays, but about murdering them is confusing matter as some Islamic scholars say it's okay and some don't.

I work with a female muslim at work & a male - both have different oppinons to how a female should be in a Islamic world. The man likes a conservative way, the female does not. Yet both come from the same country and both have a different view. This can be tolerated in the west (opinion), but won't in various Islamic countries due to there different interpretation of the same religious txt in the Qu'aran.

PixelLive
I dont mean this in any disrespectful way at all.
You seem to have changed your tune completely. It was your post that made me feel obliged to comment:

'These comments aren't racist; they're anti-religion. RELIGION IS STUPID. ISLAM IS STUPID. THESE RELIGIOUS TABOOS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN ACCOUNT OF.'

Your last post is showing your argument of why you feel religion should have no place in this world. But mate - Im not arguing against that! My simply was that terrorism has NOTHING at all to do with the Quran and Islam... And please dont deny that thats exactly what you tried to uphole. Read all your posts if you dont believe me. Only in your last post do you seem to put up a coherent argument, but against something that I wasnt even arguing with.

Anyway I cant think properly because my brain wants sleep. Perhaps if this thread is locked by tomorrow we may talk again.

"In my opinion religion, as a concept, has no place in the modern world."

+1

Wow TRUTH you call that looking into it? The only way you can look into it is by reading the book yourself, not by asking a few 'muslims'. If what you say is true, it would seem to me that these Muslims havnt even read their own book!
Anyways im going sleep now.

Haha, that must be the most stupid thing I've ever heard of! Sure, waste your millions on nothing, Sony..

"Where on earth do you think most world teachings and the education system comes from? Do you claim to be an educated man yet see no basis for the existence of religion?"

Yes I do. The fact that our ancestors believed the crap is because they hadn't yet developed the tools and knowledge to form a better, rational understanding of the world. No need to continue that tradition know that we know better. Of course I understand, as an educated man, the reasons that fostered religious believes in a scienceless world. But nowadays there's simply no excuse to still claim protection for such backward ideas.

"Do you actually think that a population with no apparent reason to live would be a good one to live in?"

There can only be reason without religion. I pitty someone who can only find reasons to live in religion. Life is beautiful as it is and to water it down with religious ideas is the real shame. And personally the idea of an omnipotent zoo keeper performing funny (or should one say tragic) experiments with people doesn't comfort me much.

If there is a god he could settle the argument this instant in his favour by showing up. The fact that he obviously doesn't and the ridiculous excuses religious people have thought up over the ages for this fact tell you one thing: In the unlikely case that there is a god, he/she is an asshole.

God I hate people who use religion to prosecute nonsense like this. Grow up, it has nothing to do with your religion and by taking offense you merely reveal what an intellectual cretin you are that you can't understand the spirit of something. If anyone really thinks that a videogame of this type is trying to spew religious hatred then they are seriously retarded.

Edit: Something much harsher! Grrr!

But DaDon123456 I've never said that the Qur'an promoted terrorism!

Is there any year where the Muzzies arent offended by *something*?

ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS

While not particularly cheery, the words are at least accurate (novel, for a religious text) - we are all going to die.

Lol, not I've calmed down... I'm a little big glad. I wish it wasn't delayed until November (although this isn't confirm)... but there are so many games coming out that LittleBigPlanet would have sucked up all my time.

My problem with this thread is that it misses the point:

Some people will find this deeply offensive.

No-one wants that (do they?)

It needs a recall to get fixed.

End of. I don't care what your views on religion are, or who you think is likely to kill you because of this, or how bigoted you can be in a post containing the words 'I'm not bigoted but...' Ultimately Sony doesn't want to upset people with this AAA family oriented title, and I completely support their decision. Quite rightly they don't care whether you're not insulted, they care that some people could be and have taken steps to change it.

I have a Muslim friend I showed a couple of trailers to. She was genuinely excited about the game, and wanted to get a PS3 to play it on. This afternoon I explained I was sad that LBP is delayed, and the minute I said 'words from the Qur'an put to music' she replied 'that's not right'. She's no extremist, and I don't think she speaks for all Muslims, but why would you upset someone like my friend just so that the 'open-minded' atheists can play a game.

On a business basis this was the right decision. On a moral basis this was the right decision. This was the right decision, and once again I'm glad that it has given me the chance to use the ignore button on some of the more shocking commentors here.

As for those who think Sony should have know this before it went 'gold', I think that it is a fair assumption to make that the song is clean, but sometimes you're wrong, and need to take steps to fix that

I was raised roman catholic, and the whole Manchester Cathedral in Resistance thing really is far worse than scripture lines in background music....

I mean... gunfights ocurred in a holy christian place of worship and no one gives a fuck!!

Then a couple of lines of scripture occur in background music and a far more peaceful, non offensive game gets recalled?!

why is the world so afraid to offend Islam, but ready willing and able to offend every other religion?

why is Islam different? why is upsetting jews, christians, buddhists and hindus ok, but offending Muslims such a big deal?
there's alot of Buddhists that don't believe in idolizing the Buddha, but no one gives a shit, statuettes of Buddha are sold in the tackiest of stores...

double standards ftl

if its okay to offend every other religion then it should be okay to offend Islam too, every person in the world has their own set of values, and all will be offended by something, so you can either walk on eggshells all your life, or just accept that other people dont share your values/beliefs, live and let live

Catolic --> Atheist --> Starting to discover Buddhism

@chronom4n

'Sony and everyone else involved in trying to resolve this issue reminds me alot of the goody-two-shoes who in the early 1900's wanted to close down the freak shows believing that the performers were being abused, violated and not given their rights or whatever else. But then the circus acts had nowhere to go and ended up in a far worse situation, if the goodytwoshoes had left them alone, the circus performers would have been far better off. in some ways, whoever is trying to do this is going to end up giving muslims and islam a bad name. '

Greatest post ever. We should upset people for their deeply held beliefs about God, because if we could still laugh at freaks they'd at least earn some money from it. I hope you're as pissed as me if you think that is a good point.

I agree with TheFamousKevin. Although, I did enjoy some of the "more shocking" comments elsewhere on this thread.

I can't get over some the things people are saying, the game got delayed people! It's still coming out! No need need to start going all hitler

All religions and religious get the fuck off my planet, you’re spoiling it!

Many of you honestly need to grow the fuck up. It's pathetic. It's a videogame delayed by a matter of days. A videogame. Ride a fucking bike for the next couple of weeks or something.

I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember, but Sony haven't done a bad thing here, even if it does annoy many of the spolit brat gamers who will surely buy the game anyway.

further to my last comment I just want to agree with TheFamousKevin who said everything worth saying about this issue.

I just can't qualify how childish so many of these comments are.

The party that is looking to be the most ignorant, hateful and spiteful here are the videogamer community. That's not especially surprising given that gamers, in general, are quite stupid, but it's disappointing all the same.

I hope you all enjoy today's edition of the Daily Mail.

Insanity rules.

Isn't it funny how people always say "I'm not racist" seconds before saying something extremely racist.
This game should be pulled to correct this blunder.
For all you arseholes out there, the USA and UK attacked Islamic countries, without a single concern for those people's culture or religion. Do not be fooled by the Murdoch controlled media.
By the way Sony, nice way to get the extra time you need, free publicity,look religiously sensitive whilst stirring up anti Islamic propaganda all at once.
Sony themselves couldn't have thought this out better, or could they?

And people do worry about upsetting Christians, especially Islamist countries , because when they do their country tends to be flattened by bombers, invaded and it's political system upheaved. All by people from countries whose main religion is none other than "peaceful" Christianity.

"The main point I meant to make was anyone who says "religion must die" or anything similar is just as bad as someone from one faith saying that another should die as they don't believe in their god. Do not force you views on another person, whterher that be athiesim or a recognised religion, otherwise it makes you mental. If you are rational, you are able to understand other peoples views."

No, atheists just want religion to go away, not the religious people. Atheists don't profess irrational believe systems and therefore don't have to kill people that happen to think differently. Atheism is not a faith and can never be put on equal footing with any system that consists of a world view with no basis in empirism.

I'm all for not forcing your views unto others, religion would die in an instant if that were ever prohibited. Parental brainwashing is what keeps it alive in this age of reason and science. Educate people and fewer and fewer will be lured towards the ludicrous world views of ancient history. And never, ever show respect for religion itself by pretending it's a world view with as much value as a rational world view.

I'm all for removing the right to freedom of religion for a right on rationality. If educated people still want to believe, fine, their choice. In a rational, democratic society they will not be prosecuted. But their fairy tale believes should never, ever restrict the rights of people with a different view and that is what happened in this case.

"Isn't it funny how people always say "I'm not racist" seconds before saying something extremely racist."

Being against muslim faith is something else than being against muslim people though I have to admit in this day and age racists often disguise their racism as islam-phobia. That's a very bad thing IMO: xenophobia is wrong. And it puts genuine atheists in a bad spotlight as well. IMO all religions are equally bad: They are all based on obsolete world views that don't hold up to rational examination.

How many games have been pulled because they feature US marines on missions to an imaginary Middle Eastern or East European country to kill Muslims or Communists? NONE
How many games exist where you are an heroic Islamic or Communist freedom fighter taking on the imperial might of the US? NONE

Of the hundreds of US/UK orientated shooters none are banned or compained about, this shows a remarkable level of tolerance from those who have been demonised.