Qur'an references force worldwide LittleBigPlanet recall

By Tom Bramwell Published 17 October, 2008

Background music to blame.

Sony has confirmed that it is delaying the release of LittleBigPlanet and recalling the game from retailers worldwide because it has identified "two expressions that can be found in the Qur'an" in one of the background songs.

The publisher has told Eurogamer that this means every copy of the game currently with retail in the world will be recalled and replaced, and retailers have started notifying customers of the hold-up.

"During the review process prior to the release of LittleBigPlanet, it has been brought to our attention that one of the background music tracks licensed from a record label for use in the game contains two expressions that can be found in the Qur'an," Sony said in a short statement.

"We have taken immediate action to rectify this and we sincerely apologise for any offence that this may have caused."

According to an archived snapshot of a PlayStation.com forum post (thanks vg247), the offending phrases are in the first 30 seconds of the background music to the Swinging Safari level.

Sony has said that a new launch date for the game - previously due out on 24th October - will be announced shortly, amid retail speculation that the game will go out on 14th November.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (408) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • HarryB #1 3 years ago

    jesus

  • Uncle_Fishboy #2 3 years ago

    What a waste of bloody time, all that time and money wasted for a load of old cack

  • RedPanda #3 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • stepneg #4 3 years ago

    Fucking cowards

  • Smurgle #5 3 years ago

    So is it still only being delayed in Europe or is the delay now worldwide? It makes no sense for there just to be a European delay.

    Edit... Aha story edited to confirm a worldwide delay. Thanks.
    Edited by 2 at 17/10/08 @ 17:14

  • captaineurogamer #6 3 years ago

    How many of the 1000 comments are going to be racist. Lets count.

  • Triggerhappytel #7 3 years ago

    Oh, just fucking release it and pay a few settlement fees afterward - it'll be cheaper that way. Would they be recalling it if it said something like "Give us today our daily bread"?! I'm guessing not.

  • MarkHW #8 3 years ago

    Absurd. Just absurd.

    The interests of no-one (and that includes the vast majority of muslims) is served by pandering to the over-sensitive ramblings of a couple of nutcases.

    Show some fucking backbone Sony.

  • kobashi #9 3 years ago

    As a Muslim I applaud Sony for taking this decision..

    Good work guys!

  • muzzer77 #10 3 years ago

    Give em credit idiots. This is a good thing and well done to Sony, maybe M$ should take note when something needs recalling they should show some balls and admit it.

  • BiscuitBase #11 3 years ago

    Yet another example of religion fucking things up for everyone

  • McGeeza #12 3 years ago

    I'll start.

    "Jesus"

    Mohammed, surely.

    Oops - am I going to be executed now?

    /goes back to reading Daily Mail ;)

  • gmmonkey #13 3 years ago

    I'm calling Lol-Qaeda on sony. /shoots ak-47 into air *rabble rabble*
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:14

  • RedPanda #14 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Tomo #15 3 years ago

    What?

    What are the phrases?

    I don't understand this in the slightest.

  • Bremenacht #16 3 years ago

    Thanks for bringing everyone's attention to that, Sony.

    [ransacks local Sony shop and kills kaffir Sony staff]

  • greenthumb #17 3 years ago

    wasnt there a shit storm with Resistance:FOM and using Manchester cathedral as a level.... didnt sony politely tell the christians to go throw shit on themselves?

  • myiagros #18 3 years ago

    Well at least they are taking this action worldwide and not just in Europe or the UK as originally rumoured.

    It still going to mess up the maketing and release schedule. Marketing for next week will have already been bought and paid for, so we may end up with print and online adverts still running next weekend.
    The also isn't a sensible week in which they could now release it without at least some of its limelight being stolen.

    \is an extremely sad panda

  • Ducklord #19 3 years ago

    This is ridiculous. RAWR!

    If they're that worried, what about a simple little patch???? Gah.

    Isn't Resistance 2 coming out in November? If so, I'll be going for that instead- temporarily, at least.

  • RedPanda #20 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • MarkHW #21 3 years ago

    "How many of the 1000 comments are going to be racist. Lets count. "

    Unfortunately quite a lot, which is probably exactly what the idiots that complained want, and Sony has played right into their hands by capitulating.

  • Razz #22 3 years ago

    FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUCK

  • stepneg #23 3 years ago

    "Give em credit idiots. This is a good thing and well done to Sony, maybe M$ should take note when something needs recalling they should show some balls and admit it."

    Thats right except this doesn't actually need recalling does it.. An ignorant minority or cult as I prefer to call it might get a bit upset by some words, give us a fucking break.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 18:56

  • BiscuitBase #24 3 years ago

    You can listen to the offending lines here: [link url=http://mt14.quickshareit.com/share/preview/soundc lip22503c0.wav
    ]http://mt 14.quickshareit.com/share/previ...[/link]

    The words are:

    1- In the 18th second: "كل نفس ذائقة الموت" ("kollo nafsin tha'iqatol mawt", literally: 'Every soul shall have the taste of death').

    2- Almost immediately after, in the 27th second: "كل من عليها فان" ("kollo man alaiha fan", literally: 'All that is on earth will perish').


    Copied and pasted from this thread: [link url=http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:BuPMgf6 T4UIJ:community.eu.playstation.com/playstationeu/board/messa ge%3Fboard.id%3D611%26message.id%3D8388+%22tapha+Niang%22+qu ran&hl=da&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=dk
    ]http://66 .102.9.104/search?q=cache:BuPMg...[/link]

    Oh and the psn id of the guy who pointed these "issues" out to Sony is: solid08

    Maybe you could send him a personal thank you for preventing the potentially serious issue of some words from a book ending up in a shipped game?
    Edited by 4 at 17/10/08 @ 17:20

  • gmmonkey #25 3 years ago

    Stupid religion. The only religion that should be recognised, is hardcore gaming.

  • tonynibbles #26 3 years ago

    This is a shitstorm and I need a macintosh.

    Man this is such bullshit.
    Would they do the same for quotes from the bible?

  • KonstMay #27 3 years ago

    I can't belief this.
    That's ridiculus

  • muzzer77 #28 3 years ago

    MarkHW, your comments are bizarre. We live in sensitive times and Sony are just showing consideration for every culture. You may not be religious but many are. Your comments seem a little immature as this kind of action should be applauded by Sony not condemned. Just because people will have to wait a couple more weeks there's no need for anger.

  • MrChallacombe #29 3 years ago

    Damn, wanted it for half-term. how annoying

  • SirDespard #30 3 years ago

    It'll be interesting to see how well the song which is freely available on ITunes does now. The artist must be delighted, they would already have been paid by Sony, and now have loads of publicity.

    I'd also expect a massive backlash - bound to be loads of Islamaphobic levels now.

    This decision probably is on a similar level with councils removing all mentions of Christmas and wishing everyone a happy winterfest. A little bit too PC...

  • muzzer77 #31 3 years ago

    stepneg - Good attitude, that's why people like you don't run counties. The fact you call them a cult is a poor showing.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:22

  • kungfubob #32 3 years ago

    if sony backs down from this its they who are the fools. When this game does come out the amount of levels taking the piss out of muslims will be 1000 fold and i will be one of them if sony give in to this bullshit
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:22

  • Beano #33 3 years ago

    "Oh and the psn id of the guy who pointed these "issues" out to Sony is: solid08 "

    Solid08 will learn the true meaning of "fatwa"

  • IronCladChicken #34 3 years ago

    @captaineurogamer
    How is it racist to mock a religion?

  • paulf #35 3 years ago

    sad state the world is in when this happens, you can see why they would with all the fuss about the book about mohammed's child bride and the danish cartoons - but it sets a president for pandering to the views of a very vocal minority such to the point where any form of entertainment will be sanitised as not to offend

  • moggsy #36 3 years ago

    'We have taken immediate overreaction to rectify this'

  • yupyup #37 3 years ago

    LittleBigFuckUp!

  • Beano #38 3 years ago

    @IronCladChicken: Good point. It's actually racism to claim that mocking religion is racism :)

  • kungfubob #39 3 years ago

    mohammed was a peadophile, nuuf said

  • LOLLERS #40 3 years ago

    "Would they do the same for quotes from the bible? "

    If the quote was 'You're all going to die' then probably, yes.

  • byron_hinson #41 3 years ago

    Ouch recalled worldwide - what a major mess up for Sony - their one chance of a really great game this year and a perfect launch is screwed - they should have just patched it. It should never have been recalled for religious reasons.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:28

  • MarkHW #42 3 years ago

    muzzer77:

    My comments are "immature"? How many people would be offended by this? How many hands would be needed to count?

    As you correctly surmised, I am not religious. In fact, I find many of the pronouncements of both Islam and Christianity deeply offensive, but have no desire whatsoever for either the Koran or Bible to be banned.

    I believe it is you who needs to grow up.

    Sony's caving in to this ridiculous compaint serves only to give fuel to the racist idiots who will assume all muslims are over-sensitive morons. And this is exactly what the extremists are after.

  • stepneg #43 3 years ago

    @muzzer77
    "stepneg - Good attitude, that's why people like you don't run counties."

    Give Quiche a Chance
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:33

  • Xerx3s #44 3 years ago

    Qur'an? Koran!

  • RedPanda #45 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Kenshin001 #46 3 years ago

    Better a delay than a fatwah calling for the beheading of all PS3 owners I guess.

  • aine #47 3 years ago

    Didn't almost exactly the same thing happen with Zelda on the N64?

  • tomjoadsghost #48 3 years ago

    In all fairness those probably aren't exactly phrases that fit with the ethic of the game, so irrespective of whether you ascribe any value to the religious aspect of the decision its protecting anyone who speaks Arabic from a bit of a downer regardless.


  • Kiigan #49 3 years ago

    Overall this works out great. There are too many new games, maybe LBP arriving a bit later could help.

  • captaineurogamer #50 3 years ago

    @kobashi are you getting the game still?

  • BiscuitBase #51 3 years ago

    I think Sony should let the game be released as it is, and if Allah doesn't like it, then he can magically erase every disc in the world.

    If the discs remain intact, then we can safely assume that he really doesn't care.

  • Daithi #52 3 years ago

    Didn't this happen with an MS fighter back in the xbox days? I'm afraid i can't even pretend to understand things like this, if it's just a reference where's the offence?

  • RedPanda #53 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • JDub #54 3 years ago

    Unbelievable.

  • Execta #55 3 years ago

    Fucking muslims. Take your rags and go buy a Xbox 360. You fucking ruiners ruined everything. My autumn break got all shit 'cos LBP won't be out next week. JUST FUCK YOU, GOD DAMN IT!!! Put your Q'rain into... ARG!!!!!

  • Beano #56 3 years ago

    I predict a Penny Arcade cartoon showing the beheading of a Sackboy...

  • Fairlane #57 3 years ago

    Shame on Sony - fuc*ng PC apes

  • spazmo #58 3 years ago

    Shouldn't religious tolerance be a 2 way affair? Seems to me like one side is all take take take but no give. But we'll continue on pandering like the weak muppets we are.

  • Razz #59 3 years ago

    I think the people we should be mad at is whoever signs off on shit like this. Had this been picked up on earlier than LBP wouldn't be delayed. :(

    Still... THIS FUCKING SUCKS! ;_________;

  • stevethemeat #60 3 years ago

    wow, all it takes is a videogame to be cancelled and loads of ps3 owners turn into racists

  • Razz #61 3 years ago

    "wow, all it takes is a videogame to be cancelled and loads of ps3 owners turn into racists"

    Islam is a religon, not a race

  • the_dudefather #62 3 years ago

    Zack and Wiki had similar complaints and mario party had to be recalled because of the word 'spastic'

    and there is no naked flames allowed on the forecourt, its all PCGM

  • RedPanda #63 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • TheFamousKevin #64 3 years ago

    This whole thing is terrible for so many reasons:

    1. We have stupid discussions that just let racists run riot. Once again in an LBP article I am most grateful for the Ignore Button.

    2. Anyone that can't see why this needs to be fixed is an idiot. It's a great fun, family-based platformer. It shouldn't cause offence to anyone, and Sony can't take the risk that a patch won't be downloaded to off-line PS3s.

    3. This guy had the game and was playing it a week before the scheduled release date. Surely some action should be taken against either him or the shop he bought it from.

    4. LBP is delayed. I'm so upset. I'd taken a week off work to play it.

  • KreyAtiv #65 3 years ago

    Couldn't they just patch the game so another song plays instead, rather than recalling them?
    Patching it was what was suggested in the link to the forum post and then sorting it out for newer batches of the game.

  • curtlikesmeat #66 3 years ago

    I don't get it... no seriously... I don't get it... anyone? Why would it be offensive and who is it offensive too? Anyone? Eurogamer?

  • Huddy #67 3 years ago

    *Looks at world*

    *Shakes Head in disbelief*



  • TheFamousKevin #68 3 years ago

    wow, all it takes is a videogame to be cancelled and loads of ps3 owners turn into racists"

    Islam is a religon, not a race

    Most Muslims belong to a certain race and it is therefore at least indirectly racist. Would you prefer Islamophobic? I'm offended that people are such idiots they can't understand this is the right thing to do.

  • DVR #69 3 years ago

    BiscuitBase
    17-Oct-08 17:31:54 I think Sony should let the game be released as it is, and if Allah doesn't like it, then he can magically erase every disc in the world.

    If the discs remain intact, then we can safely assume that he really doesn't care.

    This website makes a very similar point

  • Muddtallica #70 3 years ago

    Bloody hell, it's almost impressive how many are willing to launch into bile-filled anti-religious rants based on a minor delay on a computer game. It's due now, what, next month or something? That's not even a very long wait.

    I would have thought that anger would have been better directed at the composers who thought it would be a good idea to randomly insert tracts of apocalyptic religious scripture into the soundtrack of a children's platform game, or at the QC people who failed to notice this until a week before launch. But that's just me...

  • solidred #71 3 years ago

    Look at you fcking weirdos going mental over a fcking kids game. It will be out in 2 weeks, get over it.

  • Goodfella #72 3 years ago

    @ thefamouskevin

    I'm offended you think anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

    I disagree with the decision, pray tell me why I'm an idiot?

    Why should an extreme minority ruin things for everyone? Any sensible Muslim wouldn't be the remotest bit offended by this.

  • Nithron #73 3 years ago

    Yeah, this doesn't make any sense at all. If all it takes is a few lines in a song in a videogame to offend you, then you have a serious priority problem.

    Or perhaps a very, very boring life.

  • Darren #74 3 years ago

    Isn't the song in question recorded by a Muslim and has been available to download from iTunes for months? If so, then given that it is because they are words from the Qu'ron which is deemed offensive not the content of the words themselves, how come no Muslims were offended by that?

    The whole recall thing seems a little O.T.T. to me seeing as this could easily have been addressed via a patch enquiring politely if one is a Muslim and if the answer is yes then the patch is downloaded and applied; everyone else is happy.

    Seriously though, with the game on the verge of being released in the US and presumably there being tens of thousands of copies already made, it'll cost Sony a few bob surely?
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 18:13

  • Santino #75 3 years ago

    i'm not in anyway religious, i cannot understand how when nowadays there is a scientific explanation for almost everything people can devote their lives to something so batshit insane as following a religion. BUT i can see why they made the decision after hearing what the translation actually says, which is pretty extreme.

    edit: if in fact the translation was correct, if not then this is just ridiculous and sony should grow a pair and go for the free advertising.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:56

  • Graham_Bark #76 3 years ago

    Couldn't they have released two versions of the game? Released the present one on time, for people who don't care about the subject, and release one with the lines removed at a later date. It could have a sticker on the back saying it may offend muslims, and a future release will amend the issue - ofcourse, that wouldn't be politically correct. *grumble*
    You may say they are being considerate of every culture, but they really aren't. The culture of freedom of speech and expression has been ignored, and yet it was firmly upheld, as someone else pointed out, when it was Manchester Cathedral complaining. Double standards.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 17:54

  • Darren #77 3 years ago

    @Graham_Bark - No because then these Muslims would be offended to think that westerners were listening to such songs I'd imagine. If they were really offended themselves then they could simply... like... not buy the game, right? I mean how many of these Muslims will actually play this game... I'd wager that it's a very, very small percentage. ;)

  • NickJC1 #78 3 years ago

    lol at the little babies who can't buy their game to play on their big toy. Grow up whiney bitches, if I made a game with the word nigger playing over and over it would be banned, same way you piss of any group of people you got to fix the problem.

    Don't blame religion because Sony and MM are a bunch of stupid cunts.

  • drumbaby #79 3 years ago

    Just wait until my highly offensive take on world religion in LPB level form.

  • tobsen #80 3 years ago

    I assume that Sony was afraid ofUS gamers being offended about this - right? So they are pandering to Islamophobes here?

  • Tonka #81 3 years ago

    Yes, the fallout of this in UCC will be massive.

  • dr_faulk #82 3 years ago

    This is bollox. Christianity, especially the Catholic Church, can be the butt of everyone's jokes. How is quoting from the Qu'ran such an offense.

    I'm a practicing Catholic and I've no beef with any religion, or having a sense of humour about my own. In fact, I'm very interested in other religions and I WOULD LIKE to hear the Qu'ran quoted in a videogame.

    Just bollox.

  • Graham_Bark #83 3 years ago

    No more offended than many of us are that the game has been delayed because of the complaints of a very, very small number of people.
    If they were really offfended, yes they could just not buy the game. But they should be given an alternative - its not right to deny people a game like that, as petty as I think their reason is. Hence why I think there should be two versions.

  • TheFamousKevin #84 3 years ago

    @ Goodfella

    But you're defining 'sensible Muslim' as someone who wouldn't get offended by this. The game is a family game with a lot riding on it in terms of the PS3 sales. It shouldn't contain things that people could reasonably find offensive. People do find that offensive because the words shouldn't be mixed with music. I'm not offended by it, but I can understand that others might be. For a title that is accessible to everyone that content needs to be removed.

  • saku_luk #85 3 years ago

    What offensive words? oh I know, everything is offensive for them, srsly I have heard worse things in Polish songs and I never thot about em as offensive...this is just getting out of hand, soon they will start accusing people that "your face is offensive to us"...srsly wtf.

  • jordiniho #86 3 years ago

    fuck sake man i've been hyped up for this for months and they delay it a week before release! omg what a twat why couldn't the guy just get on with the fucking game. And what bowt us don't they get it delayed ffs.... School holidays started next week and i was looking forward to a week of lbp also mirror's edge amd cod5 are out on the 14 of november omfg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • byron_hinson #87 3 years ago

    I understand it may be offensive to some - but heck the song in question is on iTunes to buy for goodness sake

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #88 3 years ago

    I HATE all religions equally, but Sony should have picked up on this earlier.

    Islam is a slightly touchy subject in the current climate.

  • woodnotes #89 3 years ago

    This is seriously stupid!

    MS must be pissing themselves now though. Sadly. LBP is *THE* big PS3 game.

  • Dizzy #90 3 years ago

    >Fucking muslims. Take your rags and go buy a Xbox 360.

    Surely a Wii since on the 360 people tend to shoot muslims in the face many times in all those "FPS" games.

    Anyway... a waste of a lot of money... the world has gotten way too politically correct.

  • Darren #91 3 years ago

    dr_faulk - Well that's because you're a very tolerable person with a sense of humour but I'd imagine, well I know, that are some very serious Christians/Catholics out there who wouldn't share your views and treat their religion very, very seriously. I'd wager it is the same with Muslims, you'll get many who wouldn't be offended by this and some who are. Presumably the Muslim who recorded the song in question didn't find the use of words from the Qu'ron offensive! LOL

    P.S. Am I right in assuming that iTunes have now pulled this song from their site or will be doing so? If not, why not?
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 18:11

  • Widge #92 3 years ago

    From what I understand from the person who has highlighted this... one of the tracks uses two samples referring to the Qu'ran. Now unless you're bloody clued up and keeping a tight eye on what samples someone has decided to drop in their track, this can happen. Its not like the song has been some massively controversial hot point.

  • Beano #93 3 years ago

    "...the world has gotten way too politically correct. "

    Amen... oh... I mean... right on!

  • Kenshin001 #94 3 years ago

    @Muddtallica

    "I would have thought that anger would have been better directed at the composers who thought it would be a good idea to randomly insert tracts of apocalyptic religious scripture into the soundtrack of a children's platform game, or at the QC people who failed to notice this until a week before launch. But that's just me...
    ignore poster"

    The track is by a Malian musician who is a Muslim. It's been available for sale for two years. I guess the QC people were not fluent in Arabic and did not fathom that quotes from a religious text would upset people. Would we be discussing this if it were quotes from the Bible? Doubt it. The anger is that a highly anticipated game has been delayed because of someone's ridiculous oversensitivity.

  • Beano #95 3 years ago

    Anybody know the name and composer of this song?

  • Schiraman #96 3 years ago

    What a farce. What on earth is offensive about quoting from a book? Even if that book is the heart of your religion, it's not like its contents are secret, so what's the big deal?

    As for why people are upset about the recall, it's two-fold.
    1) It's hard to see why such a minor niggle requires a global recall. A patch seems more than adequate for such a small problem.
    2) People are sick of religious minorities throwing their weight around. It's not just this one launch, that's small beans, it's the fact that it's part of a larger pattern that's the problem.

  • Mr-Bozzey #97 3 years ago

    its a load of rubbish that !!!

    quran comments in a game

    sweden make a comic strip with mohammed in it

    and a school teacher calls a teddy allah for the kids

    the results

    game gets a world wide recall
    sweden have flags burned and a untied jihad put on them
    teacher almost gets death penalty !

    check this out muslims denounce the west flag burnng and kill our troops and attack our country as a direct challlenge to our customs and religon what happens

    FUCK ALL !!!

    screw them keep it in who cares its 1 rule for 1 lot of people and another for us

    its ok for them to attack our culture and people with violence but as soon as we call a teddy allah or have verses from the quran in a game we are the bad guys ????

    dont make sense and it has it stop balls to the muslims they should have sackboy eating bacon wearing a turban !!!

  • byron_hinson #98 3 years ago

    The annoying thing is that for any other religion and religious content nothing would have been recalled.

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #99 3 years ago

    "Littlebig Planet Sparks Racial Armageddon!"

    Yes, a game that was meant to bring gamers together has, in fact, made them assplode!

    XD

  • El-Dev #100 3 years ago

    Holy shit(literally), this is a bit of a joke. Not bein funny, but are Muslims allowed to play video games? If not, how would they ever find out about this? Would anyone have noticed if they had just left it in and kept schtum?

    Well Fifa will keep me busy for the next couple of weeks hopefuly until this is released.

  • Tehren #101 3 years ago

    If kow-towing to fanatics is racist, sign me up. Show some fricking spine Sony. No dogma can be immune to scrutiny, questions, even parody: to say otherwise is to succumb to fascism. GTFO.

  • Totoriko #102 3 years ago

    @Beano

    Mohammed

  • ParanoidZombie #103 3 years ago

    Wow... This incredibly stupid and pointless event shows how shitty our littlebigplanet has become. The devil must be laughing right now - and playing saint's row 2 -.

  • bagsey #104 3 years ago

    Once again the fucking ragheads ruin it for everybody,allah can kiss my arse

  • #105 3 years ago

    Thank fuck im not religious, id rather poke my eyes out with a rusted fork than pay homage to some imaginary fucking person and get annoyed over it.

    still, good one Sony for taking the moral high ground and doing something about it.

  • Muddtallica #106 3 years ago

    Kenshin001: I don't know about that...I'll grant you that the fact that a Muslim wrote the song does throw into some doubt the idea that hearing the Koran set to music is inherently offensive to Islam, but for me it's the nature of the quotes themselves that really makes their inclusion ridiculous. "Every soul shall have the taste of death"? "All that is on earth will perish"? This is a family-oriented platform game; sticking lyrics like that (in Arabic, a modern language that many players will understand) into the soundtrack, especially if they carry religious overtones, seems like a surefire way to cause offence if you ask me. And yeah, I do think it'd be the same if they were excerpts from the Bible; wouldn't you raise an eyebrow if the next Mario game had a song in it that quoted Revelations, and sang about rains of fire and Judgement Day as you stomped Goombas?

    As far as I'm concerned, the only issue to be angry about here is why this wasn't picked up on earlier, so that Sony wouldn't have to utterly screw up both their own schedules and those of millions of gamers with this last minute salvage job...

  • Optyk #107 3 years ago

    What the fucking fuck, who gives a shit?

  • byron_hinson #108 3 years ago

    Exactly - don't blame them - for a start off they asked for it to be PATCHED not recalled.

  • JHuxley #109 3 years ago

    On the bright side, this is the perfect excuse to buy Valkyria Chronicles.

  • kallenai #110 3 years ago

    It's becoming a pretty regular event in the UK but now its global, pandering to one Religion again because of the perceived threat of a back lash from said 'peaceful religion'......the majority of the EU/UK is secular so why is there a delay here ?

    I wonder sometimes if the political correct and those motivated by religion perceive that its 2008 and not 1008, thw way that religion infects every day life now is becoming a sick joke, glad I don't believe in any of them.

  • mattyduk #111 3 years ago

    EPIC FAIL from Sony and another sign of PC taking hold.

    Oh well, more time to invest in Fable 2 & Far Cry2

  • rhubarbandcustard #112 3 years ago

    As Islam is the national religion of the UK I find it quite acceptable that the game not be released here in it's current state.

  • Gradius #113 3 years ago

    It is pretty weird that Sony would release a game with song lyrics they obviously couldn't understand (especially in a game aimed at families). I mean it could have been saying anything, it could have been the Muslim version of Biggy Smalls (or even worse the Muslim version of S Club 7), and they didn't think to check?

    Seems pretty cack handed to say the least. I also agree with TheFamousKevin. You can't release a family orientated game with lyrics like "Every soul shall have the taste of death", no matter what language it's in, I don't want that kind of message in the media I give my children to play whether they can understand it or not. Regardless of religious reasons, I'm sure any sane person could see why this has had to be changed.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 18:37

  • Seafort #114 3 years ago

    Islam is not the national religion of the UK. I've lived here all my life and christianity has and always will be the national religion.
    Makes no difference to me i'm athiest and proud of it.

    LBP should just have been patched from day 1. Most ppl who will play the game wouldnt have understood whats in the song anyway.

  • spazmo #115 3 years ago

    Yeah coz muslim kids don't read the Qu'ran do they?

  • Gradius #116 3 years ago

    "Yeah coz muslim kids don't read the Qu'ran do they? "

    That is their parents choice. This game is not specifically for Muslim people, is it.

  • Windsong #117 3 years ago

    But, its the religion of peace..at least thats what Ive been told.

    :)

  • Tzetrik #118 3 years ago

    That is possibly the definition of EPIC FAIL.

    Seriously, that is one massive fuck up.

  • Totoriko #119 3 years ago

    @Seafort

    I think you missed the sarcasm in there lol

  • Tzetrik #120 3 years ago

    lolbigplanet

  • allcreation #121 3 years ago

    Just plain pathetic!

  • Monkey_Puncher #122 3 years ago

    I can understand them taking the lyrics out if they were offensive to everyone, but I don't understand how quoting the Qu'ran can be offensive to muslims?

    Samuel L Jackson quoted the bible before he shot some dudes, I didn't see the christians going mad about that....

  • Fab4 #123 3 years ago

    "He's not Sackboy...he's a very naughty boy."

    Religious sensibilities...pity religions are not strong enough to withstand offense.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 18:53

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #124 3 years ago

    Yep, as far as EPIC FAIL goes, this pretty much defines it. A shame there's no amusing gif depicting this one - just a few million pissed off gamers :)

  • Waffleaber #125 3 years ago

    Of course when it is released I'm sure there won't be any anti-Islamic levels or sackboy Mohammeds running around...

  • Der_tolle_Emil #126 3 years ago

    I can see how they would remove offensive lines regardless of the language they are in.

    Two problems still remain though: Why did noone notice before? And second why not clarify the news a bit? It has less to do with where the messages come from but rather what they mean. As already mentioned, having messages in a family game reading like "everyone should die" (exaggerated, and I don't know the exact translation) is simply wrong. The headline here is a bit misleading to put it mildly.

  • bad09 #127 3 years ago

    I'm not a racist, I respect other people's views and beliefs and many of my friends are Muslim, but seriously why are Muslims so offended by everything? And why is everyone else so afraid of offending them?

    I tell ya my own personal belief is the sooner ALL religion is purged from mankind we will all be a lot happier.

    (please take no offense Muslims I'm not hating or anything it's just frustrating that we constantly hear about Muslims upset at something offensive and I just believe life it too short and precious to take ANY religion that seriously in the 21st century - I may go to hell for that belief tho if I'm wrong!)

    EDIT came back for a read and saw some shocking spelilng!

    / prays for good English skills
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 19:31

  • mossychops001 #128 3 years ago

    Back to Dark ages then? oh well!

  • Vin #129 3 years ago

    This thread is fucking shocking.

  • spazmo #130 3 years ago

    The words are not offensive. It's the fact they are recited to music that's the problem.

  • spadge #131 3 years ago

    Straying off thread for a second, surely the logical conclusion of this (and I speak from experience) is to have a PEGI rating for "Politically Incorrect" and push the age rating up to 16+ where people can make their mind up about content that -may- be deemed offensive.

    I say that in half-jest, but we were criticised 10yrs ago by John Peel for our voices in Worms Armageddon whereby we took the piss out of everyone (including ourselves, I might add) with over the top stereotypes.

    Nothing has caused more bloody misery in this world than the political correctness regime. Life's too short to give a shit about what someone -might- think. It's all in context, surely...

  • WJF #132 3 years ago

    Civ 4 quotes the whole of the Lord's Prayer (in swahili...I think) and that wasn't pulled from the shelves...not to mention the rather irritatingly long Amens that continue for hours during the medieval soundtrack.

    "Thy will will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

    EXTREMISM! Ban this sick...oh, it's Christian. Fair enough, move along.

  • Krelle #133 3 years ago

    I fukken hate religious people.

    I think its time for gamers to statuate an example here. This upsets how many gamers? Enough gamers to do some terrorist act. This way, next time something similar happends, theyll have to choose between upsetting religious people or gamers.

  • AHiFi #134 3 years ago

    Ouch, right into Gears of War 2 and Banjo 3 territory. =p This'll be interesting.

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #135 3 years ago

    Sony are pushing this more than anyone else, as the game is marketed as kid-friendly.

    I think most muslims wouldn't give a toss about it, and could certainly do without another OMG PC! clusterfuck.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 19:14

  • Ninja_Tino #136 3 years ago

    Not being racist but it is annoying the way EVERYONE pussyfoots around Muslims and Islam. I'm not saying that as a jealous Christian either, as I'm an athiest!

  • Krelle #137 3 years ago

    Everything aside, can we just look at this for what it is?

    Some lines of text, in a song, made up by some dude quite some time ago.
    This will cost how much money to replace? I might not care about Sonys money, but it still seems like the most overblown thing ever. You simply have to be some kind lunatic to find logic in this reasoning.

  • spazmo #138 3 years ago

    This is religion we are talking about.

  • madgerald Verified Studio Head of PR & Marketing, Colossal Games LTD #139 3 years ago

    I didn't realise this was a global recall - I just placed an order for it on MovieTyme.com (they said they had stock and were shipping). Not sure whether to get a refund or hold on to my order in the hope they ship it and don't hold off until they get new stock.

    Might be worth a few bob if I get an old version. Then again, it might not.

  • Freek #140 3 years ago

    What the hell was wrong with just releasing a day one patch??? Seems to be the normal road for far more seriouse things like bugs.
    "Oh no some music, everybody run for the hills!!!!!"

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #141 3 years ago

    Eighty-seven percent of the world's population put their faith in "some words" in various "books".

    It's a crazy planet, but you can't fight against those odds.

  • kallenai #142 3 years ago

    @ rhubarbandcustard

    "As Islam is the national religion of the UK I find it quite acceptable that the game not be released here in it's current state."

    Thats not correct mate, Christianity remains the dominant religion in the UK closely followed by the Hindu faith and then Islam, the media might distort that fact because they along with the government tend to pander to Islam. On the other hand over half of people questioned in the last UK census said they considered themselves secular anyway, so again the UK should be a free zone for game releases unhindered by religious concerns.

  • Krelle #143 3 years ago

    Lets face it people; We are all pussys afraid of Muslims and their terrorist acts.

    Im starting to wonder if Hitler was right after all.

  • Eraysor #144 3 years ago

    1. I am an atheist.
    2. I think religion is silly.
    3. I think Sony did the right thing, I wouldn't want everyone hearing that everyone will die, quite frankly.
    4. Why would anyone write anything so evil in the first place?

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #145 3 years ago

    YES. Ban that sick filth!

    :)

    Except dwarf-porn.

  • V #146 3 years ago

    Boo. I'd love to have seen a few hooting cranks burning a Sackboy effigy.

    Maybe the Xbox fanboys can step in?

  • Darren #147 3 years ago

    I think Muddtallica has hit the nail on the head as to the real reason why this song has resulted in a recall of LBP, namely that the two lines "Every soul shall have the taste of death" and "All that is on earth will perish" sound (and no disrespect to Muslims here) very morbid and dark, like something a devil cult would use, and aren't really the sort of thing you want in a family friendly game, even if few people will actually understand them since they're in Arabic. That said both statements are true... we all die and everything on this planet will eventually be destroyed when the Sun turns into a red dwarf in 500 million years time! A nice sobering thought that there! Still not really appropriate for a fun, light game like LBP though. LOL

  • Rodster #148 3 years ago

    Nice job Sony. You insulted Christianity with your God of War 2 adverts and you finally pulled them when you were pressured. I guess since you felt you did not want to be subjected to car bombs and death threats by the religion of "Rest of Peace" you caved.

  • Totoriko #149 3 years ago

    What next? Ban Three little pigs story books from classrooms?

    Hold on ....
    [link url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2818809.stm
    ]http://ne ws.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engla...[/link]

    LOL
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 19:47

  • 4thVariety #150 3 years ago

    But what about the guy who was singing it in the first place? If that's a licensed soundtrack, then it should exist some place else? It was not recorded for the game, it was copied into it. So one should be able to still buy the original artist singing the Koran. I wonder if it has been opposed there too.

  • old_skool #151 3 years ago

    wow, the hate here is strong...

  • septimus #152 3 years ago

    What doesn't offend hard core muslims?

    It is utterly unfair. I have good friends, muslim, multi-lingual and on the beta (which I missed) who either missed it entirely or didn't really care it was there. Only the real fundamentalists have taken objection, and they are the ones no one in their right mind should succumb or listen to. Those precious mother fuckers will be demonstrating in the streets soon.

    Sony - you bunch of fucking pussies. It's almost like Resistance again, but they didn't pull that.

    edit 2 - athiest, so really don't get this kind of illogical crap.
    Edited by 2 at 17/10/08 @ 19:54

  • chasejamie #153 3 years ago

    We March to the Beat of Indifferent Drum. Be it Christian, Muslim, Gay, Straight, Cowboy, Indian. People are simple pathetic creatures, and when we bring the world to the brink of oblivion, someone/thing, somewhere will have a chuckle to themselves. Even our escapism hobbies can't escape such stupidity, books (age rating, WHAT?), films, and games. I don't care about a game being delayed, I just hate the world. Yep, I had a bad day at work. Pro Evo here I come.

  • Scimarad #154 3 years ago

    "wow, the hate here is strong..."

    I think you'll find the 'WTF?!?' in here is strong, actually!

  • Anufea #155 3 years ago

    + 1

    @Darren

  • Razz #156 3 years ago

    27th in the USA now, I wonder what the EU date will be. Probably 2 weeks afterwards. :/

  • Brimmy6 #157 3 years ago

    Are you serious...
    As if people would actually get offended by some words that also appear in a book.
    If you are one of the people that would be offended by it...

    GROW SOME F***ING BALLS

  • Skurmedel #158 3 years ago

    revoltkid: Actually, The Life of Brian by Monty Python was banned in Norway for a short period because some Christians found it offending.

    In Finland "clerics" (of unknown faith) whined about the Eurovision Song Contest winners Lordi being occult.

    I can see how some people may find it offending, I don't know where the sentenecs appear in the Koran, but if I were a muslim I might feel they were taken out of context.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 20:21

  • Dark_Stranger #159 3 years ago

    sony, sony, sony, first they offend the Church of England & now the muslims, laughable.

  • BettySwallocks #160 3 years ago

    There is another precedent for this
    McDonald's nearly precipitated a holy war when it unveiled a worldwide promotion using national flags. It did not realise that the Saudi flag had a verse from the Koran on it, and that the campaign was therefore blasphemous.

    can be found at the bottom of this article

    apologies if posted before

  • Zomoniac #161 3 years ago

    @ revoltkid

    An excellent post.

    Edit: I refer to your 20:29 post, not the :39 one.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 20:43

  • mossychops001 #162 3 years ago

    SONY care more for muslim's now than they do Christians, shame.

  • MaxiSleep #163 3 years ago

    So we have protected the sony playstion III owning religious fundamentalists. Joy.

  • MaxiSleep #164 3 years ago

    And thinking aboout it it does show the pro muslim/anti christian bias which has developed which I find rather odd.

  • Altrezia #165 3 years ago

    Piss boiler or what :(

  • jellyhead #166 3 years ago

    If this is such a big game for Sony, why wasn't this picked up earlier?
    Hundreds of people must have played the game during development and testing and i'd have thought their army of lawyers would have gone over the content with a fine toothed comb.
    Strange, i know it's a big game but it just seems crazy to me that such a big release has been derailed by an issue like this.

  • Zomoniac #167 3 years ago

    And thinking aboout it it does show the pro muslim/anti christian bias which has developed which I find rather odd.

    Not odd at all. I think the basic thinking is that all religions are stupid and irrelevant except the ones we don't understand and therefore are, rationally or irrationally, terrified of, which get special treatment. And only Islam fits that category. We understand Christianity enough as a society to be able to just laugh at the hilarity of their extremist minorities without fear of the consequences.

  • Golgo #168 3 years ago

    From what I can pick out from the maelstrom of this hate-fuelled shitstorm, no Muslim person or organization has uttered a single word of complaint against the cute platformer that is Little Big Planet. Isn't it down to some Sony PR people imagining that a few lines from a song in Arabic might offend people who hold to the Muslim faith? That's a different blame entirely, isn't it?

  • HuggyAtHome #169 3 years ago

    Don`t want to be too paranoid here but does anybody else think this could be a cover for a recall to patch the creation and control issues mentioned in previews and the EG review? Maybe they are worse than we have been told? (and before I get nailed to a bit of wood - or is that racist too??- I own a PS3 and an Xbox and love them both dearly)

  • HuggyAtHome #170 3 years ago

    DiscoStu - Damn right, at least militant Muslims or Right wing Christians don't normally flood everything I read on EG and 1Up with narrow minded bile.

    Until now. :-)

  • mossychops001 #171 3 years ago

    XBox 360 "Praise be upon it"

  • HuggyAtHome #172 3 years ago

    See what I mean?

  • Kyle #173 3 years ago

    Ridiculous. I still don't see who stands to be offended. That guy says it's because of mixing music with words from the Qu'ran? I say to him: "Gimme a break". Will it offend people who are of different religious beliefs? I also say to them: "Gimme a break".

  • septimus #174 3 years ago

    Sigh, fuck I hate religion. Backward and pointless ideology.

  • elvenscroll #175 3 years ago

    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

    Thats all i have to say on the subject. :(

  • MrsPacMan #176 3 years ago

    Pissing myself and in the same week my xbox red ringed
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 21:57

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #177 3 years ago

    Out of all the games being released I can't believe its this one which is causing a fuss.

  • Gradius #178 3 years ago

    Seriously, there are a lot of racist idiots in here, thankfully most of the offensive posts are not from the regulars, but seem to be from user ID's that I don't recognise so hopefully most of these imbeciles are just the freeloading beta key retards who've been plaguing EG of late...
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 22:23

  • The-Bodybuilder #179 3 years ago

    Wow, lots of hate here. A lot of people claiming to be intellegent and "above" religion, actually sound like a bunch of stalins.

    And I do find it funny that there's uproar over this, yet very few (if any) are aware of the jay-z track with subliminal lucifer chants in PGR 2.

  • Pulsar_t #180 3 years ago

    So much human scum posting here it's sad.

  • ronuds #181 3 years ago

    As someone pointed out, why would this song be in the game in the 1st place if it's calling for everyone's death? Isn't LBP supposed to be for the casual crowd?

  • ST.. #182 3 years ago

    What utter pandering rubbish!

    The song was commercially released and is by a Muslim artist, surely if there was to any sort of outcry it should have been directed at the original song upon release?

    This must be costing Sony a fortune. More utter madness from the world of religion. What a great good it does the world!

    Sony shoud have released the game as is.

  • PrivateFloyd #183 3 years ago

    THIS COMMENTS THREAD HAS BEEN LOCKED. THANKS FOR TAKING PART!

    GOD BLESS YOU!

  • PrivateFloyd #184 3 years ago

    HOLY SHIT!!!! (am i allowed to say that?hehe!)

    there is awful amount of negativity in this thread quite suprised it hasnt been locked yet. I was really looking forward to LBP oh well i can wait.

  • Gradius #185 3 years ago

    They don't lock the comments sections, or tend to ban people here unfortunately.

  • PixelLive #186 3 years ago

    These comments aren't racist; they're anti-religion. RELIGION IS STUPID. ISLAM IS STUPID. THESE RELIGIOUS TABOOS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN ACCOUNT OF.

  • DaDon123456 #187 3 years ago

    I think everyone should STOP TELLING THE MUSLIMS HOW TO FEEL. I also think everyone should learn a little about the religion that they mock. LEARN BY READING THE QUARAN, NOT THE SUN, DAILY MAIL etc. A lot of the comments people have been posting shows nothing but ignorance! Can someone here tell me what Fatwa means? I know the definition but I dont think a lot of the people here do!

    BTW I am NOT Muslim, but I have learned a lot of the religion by going straight to the source. The Quaran.

  • DaDon123456 #188 3 years ago

    @ PixelLive
    Wow you are just so right. I wish everyone was as hateful as you.

  • Avaloner #189 3 years ago

    In the year 2200 students will read about these things and shake their heads in disbelief just like we do today when we read about witches being burnt in the middle ages. Kobashi you said you are a muslim and applaud this. The song is quoting a couple of sentences from the Qu'ran. Are you so ashamed of the contents of the book?

    And @ Dadon: I think Muslims should stop telling people how to live. While I will not presume to tell them what to feel I reserve the right to tell them how I feel about their bollocks beliefs.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 23:20

  • MrCrazycat #190 3 years ago

    I am Going to be honest I find this all an amusing display of being Overly Politically correct, but I think the riots after the disaster that was the Danish Cartoons, Religious people tend to have a major sense of humour failure if they feel their entire belief, and what they have devoted their life to so far, is being mocked. Unfortunately some people are more sensitive than others.

    However I think some religious beliefs are given more lee-way than others when it comes to being offended, as Sony demonstrated with Resistance: Fall of man and its disregard for christianity and its places of worship. Another example of how other religions are treated with less sensitivity God Of War (insults any religion that stated that there is only one god and he is to be worshipped).

    Why did media molecule not follow suit with Ubisoft however and place a disclaimer at the start of the game stating that contributors hail from many religions and Ethnicities? in Assassins creed this line or two of text seems to calm the fact you are slaughtering masses of people of varying religions and Race (or can be with a relatively negligable punishment), this along with the fact Sony forced a recall due to people with no on-line capabilities, the original fault being reported on a forum, as shown in the linked screenshot, seems a very odd decision. and one I disagree with.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/08 @ 23:22

  • VMerken #191 3 years ago

    OOOOOOOOOoooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo

    Let's look at this from a factual perspective:

    * Little Big Planet will appear as a game truly for the entire family
    * Recalling and replacing Blu Ray discs will cost Sony a nice package of money

    This affects NO PLAYER in any way whatsoever. The only downside for any
    of us is that store copies appear a little later than planned.

    So Sugar Sweet Jiminy Jillickers Batmen, is that really the end of the world
    for all of us? Enough of a shovel to unearth a pointless religion-based debate
    with?

    Protip: it is probably NOT, so give it up. Noone will convince anyone here, such
    is the power of belief.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 00:17

  • Gradius #192 3 years ago

    In the year 2200 students will hopefully be slightly more evolved than many of them are today and will realise that spewing out racist bile because their favourite toy has been delayed by a few weeks is a bit spasticated.

  • peterv #193 3 years ago

    I dont think the words of the song are offensive at all.
    It merely saying everything dies in the end,nothing lasts forever.Sony is a global company and cannot afford to upset a vast area
    of the planet,just to keep a release date.And i am a deadset athiest but i know full well what can happen.

  • DaDon123456 #194 3 years ago

    @Avaloner
    Ahh but I dont think they are telling people how to live. They are just asking people not to insult them!
    But now you are going to say how is quoting the Quran insulting?
    Muslims do not listen to Music with instruments because they believe it arouses sexual desires and illicit thoughts. In other words Music with instruments = Haraam (Forbidden). So naturally they would consider coupling the Quaran with Music = Haraam. NOW REMEBER, it is their belief, and their book. So if they find the way their book is being used distasteful and offensive, we shouldnt tell them to shut up and sit quite.
    Also I dont think any Muslim is ashamed of their book. The only reason why I read the Quaran is because my Muslim mates kept badgering me to read it!
    I am awaiting your reply Avalonar.

  • DaDon123456 #195 3 years ago

    'In the year 2200 students will hopefully be slightly more evolved than many of them are today and will realise that spewing out racist bile because their favourite toy has been delayed by a few weeks is a bit spasticated.'

    Wow. Couldnt have expressed it better.

  • PixelLive #196 3 years ago

    God I hate the argument that being anti-Islam is racist. I hate Islam, but no more or less than I hate any religion. I think the concept is fine when it promotes good qualities, but over the years religion has caused so much war and hate that it just shouldn't exist anymore. Taking Islam as an example, a hot topic one, you can't deny it has caused the deaths of thousands in the last few years. No, the religion doesn't promote the actions of a few extremists, but it is still the cause.

    I'm not racist, I'm not hateful. I think it's an outdated concept. Sure, this is just a videogame, but it's one in a long line of annoyances, from the fact that lives were threatened and international relations strained because of a damn Danish cartoon a few years ago, to calls from the Pakistani Foreign Minister JUSTIFYING SUICIDE ATTACKS over Salman Rushdie's knighthood. Why don't we have freedom of speech?

    If I want to quote a religious text in a song, why can't I? Why do these people get angry over it? IT'S RIDICULOUS.

    Sure, I'm annoyed and shouted my head off. But I'm not hateful and I'm CERTAINLY not racist.

  • DaDon123456 #197 3 years ago

    PixelLive why dont you read the Quaran. I thought terrorism and wife beating = Islam until I read the Quaran. Dont base your knowledge off what people who have a bias against the religion say.

  • DaDon123456 #198 3 years ago

    'No, the religion doesn't promote the actions of a few extremists, but it is still the cause. '

    How does that make sense? You admit the religion doesnt promote it, but is still the cause? Explain.

  • PixelLive #199 3 years ago

    DaDon123456, did you even read my post? I distinctly said that such acts are NOT promoted by the religion, but it's still because of the religion that such extremists do such actions!

  • Gradius #200 3 years ago

    @PixelLive

    I'm not religious either. I was born into a Christian family but as an adult chose not to hold religious beliefs. I do believe religion is the root of many evils, but I won't condone prepubescent idiots calling the Muslim people 'fucking cunts' etc, because Sony messed up by not understanding the content of their own game and realising that people do not want morbid chants of doom and death accompanying their children's favourite game. It's not Islams fault that Sony screwed up. It just seems that many of the people here are using this mishap as just another excuse to vent their bigoted views.

  • PixelLive #201 3 years ago

    They do such in the name of religion, which in my opinion is a relic of an uneducated and uncivilized time, one where order needed the face of a deity to keep it in check. The modern world doesn't need it. It's more trouble than its worth. It's been the source of wars. And regardless of what the Qur'an teaches, it's the cause of people who are more than happy to kill in its name.

  • citizenHUNTER #202 3 years ago

    Hmm, an interesting one and for some reason I generally agree with a recall, but I'm not even sure why. I don't want to piss off Muslims, or any religions, particularly. Even though I disagree with the whole nature of all religions and believe it to be all a bit of nonsense, it's still a pretty thorny issue and there's no point in Sony fanning what could end up being massive flames.

    The only thing is, and could someone more informed please tell me, but I thought it was only a problem to say the name of God out loud or something like that, so featuring just a few random quotations from the Qu'ran.. is there something wrong with that?? (I'm thinking it's more the wording of the quotes more than anything that may be the reason, and perhaps ironically the recall is more to protect us Western 'Christians' from hearing passages from Muslim texts in our games, though only some small minded section of deep south America would kick up a fuss...)

  • DaDon123456 #203 3 years ago

    PixelLive did you read my post?

    Let me explain to you if I didnt make it clear. Quaran/Islam DOES NOT PROMOTE VIOLENCE. Full stop.
    So how can extremists carry their acts out because of Quaran/Islam. How can you blame the religion if the religion condems it? How can you say the extremists carry out violence because of the book, religion, when it is completely against it?
    I think they do what they do because of another reason. But please explain the above.

  • DaDon123456 #204 3 years ago

    citizenHUNTER please read my post at 23:38pm for your answer. BTW I am not Muslim.

  • PixelLive #205 3 years ago

    My argument, Gradius, is that the game should not be changed because of a religion. And my opinions aren't bigoted, although I am using this to vent them..., I'm just genuinely frustrated at the delay, particularly for something so stupid.

    I wouldn't even be shouting my head off if the original complainer's suggestion, that the song be patched out and removed from future disks, was used instead of the whole game being delayed! :D

    And I totally agree with you about some of the reactions I've read to this. In fact I can imagine solid08's PS3 inbox getting flooded with angry messages from such idiots!

  • DaDon123456 #206 3 years ago

    PixelLive you posted your answer before I managed to finish mine. But I think my point still stands. If a parent tells his son never to smoke, and reminds him everyday, yet the boy still does it, can you blame the parent? Nope, you blame other factors.

  • TRUTH #207 3 years ago

    Muslims ca be very closed minded. Minority religion in Muslim countries are never treated the same - sentenced with threats of prisonment, death, unfair treatment to education & work etc etc etc...With history Islam has had a lot of forceful conversions which has inc rape of women, and mass murder for the so called kuffhas (non muslim).

    Islam has become a sort Nazi religion - if your not part of it your not welcome. It has not changed or caught on wth the modern world, as many Islamic countries continue to hate non muslims. With Saudhi Arabia adding versus to Koran to parts of the txt which inc kill the Jews & Christians and non musilims...with preaches in mosques inc women saying kill gays, lesbians, non muslims and also forcing women to be fully covered in veils by threats and discrimination tactics , with preaching fictional anti-Islam history without truth & being very wrong, with fundamental teachings teachings that inc cutting of animals genitals if shown (as in parts of Afghanistan), by keeping women uneducated and a slave to the man, where women circumstance is considered fine by some muslim scholars, where various different sects of Islam fight and kill each other, where continues promises of virgins are brainwashed into suicide bombers if they do a jihad, where chopping of heads of non muslims in encouraged at schools.

    With many more of what really is happening in Islam itself, it never really seems to sort it's problems within it's own religion - yet is willing to cause riots with death and threats against the world without any tolerance shown towards any form other criticism / view / humor... though muslims do and have constantly criticized & threatend anything that they feel is not Islamic; which have included death threats and murder, jihads, fatwas, and speaches with vulgar aggressive emotions!...I also remember a fatwa was put on Pokemon!



    Edited by 3 at 18/10/08 @ 00:26

  • PixelLive #208 3 years ago

    We're crossing wires here, DaDon123456. I have acknowledged, and never said otherwise, that the Qur'an does not promote violence. BUT PEOPLE CAUSE VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGION. I don't understand why you're not parsing what I'm saying. It's an undeniable fact. Religion of all kinds has caused violence and war; look at the Crusades! And how certain Muslims perceive their own religion is causing acts of violence today!

    Your smoking analogy really doesn't work here.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 00:06

  • DaDon123456 #209 3 years ago

    @TRUTH
    I used to think like you. But then I searched for these criticisms in the Quaran. They are not there. Those things you mentiomed are not even part of the religion. Dont believe me? Read the Book.

  • chronom4n #210 3 years ago

    has anyone ever listened to Qawali? There is no difference in my opinion to the way music and quranic ayats are used in qawali then in the way they are used in LBP. after listening to the sample, i conclude it is probably qawali. One of the things in qawali is that it is used to bring out an intense spiritual awakening for the listener. Still if people can realise the reality of the beautiful words of the Qu'ran than all the better and if not... well so be it.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 00:12

  • gruntboy #211 3 years ago

    I would love to see this article's comments section closed. Freedom of speech is one thing, but stupidity on this scale doesn't deserve a voice...

  • DaDon123456 #212 3 years ago

    PixelLive you are not understanding my point. Ill be as clear as possible.
    I can kill and rape anyone I want in the name of Democracy. So now are you going to blame Democracy for my ignorance?
    You talk about the Crusades. The Christians can argue that Jesus condems the crusades.
    I can cause VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF ATIESM. Does that mean Atheism is evil? Bottom Line = Unless the belief or law promotes evil, you cant blame the belief or law for people using it as an excuse to kill!
    Let us assume that there is this bloke called Allah. Is it his fault that his followers are not doing what he says to do in his book? Please answer.

  • Skurmedel #213 3 years ago

    @Turnip_of_Doom: You may be drunk, worringly you are also one of the most sensible persons in this thread.
    Edited by 3 at 18/10/08 @ 00:17

  • TRUTH #214 3 years ago

    I still believe what i write in previous comments (above)...The main problem is Islam is everyone sees it in a different way and end up interpreting it in different ways - the taliban. So the fact is religion as Islam is not perfect!

  • PixelLive #215 3 years ago

    You're misunderstanding me completely and applying this to completely unrelated concepts. In my opinion religion, as a concept, has no place in the modern world. Islam is a particularly odd case as it affects the laws and societies of many countries and not for the better.

    You're taking what I'm saying as "Oh, because a relatively few (although still significant) number of people interpret Islamic teachings as one way, the whole thing should be abolished", whereas I'm actually saying it's simply indicative of why the whole thing isn't needed! I don't think the good which is what, hope of something beyond this plane? outweighs this relatively small and technically untaught extremist views? In my opinion such a small offshoot is enough to question the need for the whole thing in today's world? Maybe this opinion stems from my confusion as to being able to belief nonsense about a God of any sort. But I don't think I'm ignorant. And I can understand why someone sympathetic such as yourself would find issue with what I believe.

    I do know, unlike many horrid people (BNP assholes spring to mind) that Muslims aren't all terrorists. :p

    One thing that annoys me about Islam in particular is that it's still so invested in the laws and societies of many countries. The same could be said about us in the west with Christianity at one point, but it seems that the Western world, from a judicial and governmental level at least, has outgrown its religious roots. Separation of Church and State. But many primarily Islamic countries are still bound by something very much out of date, despite what Ijtihad has changed.

    And no, I haven't read the Qur'an. I have no quibbles with anything it teaches. I don't have a real problem with Islam itself, either. My problems lies with the concept of religion as a whole and how certain people do interpret it.

  • Les #216 3 years ago

    "There is nothing wrong with religion when the main faiths tend to preach love & forgiveness"

    What's wrong with religion is that it's ridiculous. Love and forgiveness are fine but to practice them only because you believe in fairytales is ridiculous.

    And as for blaming the fundamentalists: Without mainstream religious people we wouldn't be bothered by those idiots either. Problem with religion is that there's no place you can draw a rational line because it's all irrational bullshit. Anyone basing their morality or walk in life on the preachings of some illiterate, uncivilised idiot that lived hundreds of years ago before all the major scientific findings deserves nothing but pitty.

    Educate people, kill religion.

  • DaDon123456 #217 3 years ago

    TRUTH
    Everyone will always have their own interpretations. That is inevitable. But what you say is not even in the Quaran. The Quaran only appears to say inciteful things when you take it out of context. But when you read it properly you see that there is no hate at all.
    If you wish to hate Islam or the Quaran, that is up to you. But at least have a legitimate reason to hate it. Again I say to you read the Quaran. If your not going to then stop posting ignorant comments about something that you have no knowledge of.

  • PixelLive #218 3 years ago

    Turnip_of_Doom, Philanthropy... charity. In today's world they do not need to face of a deity.

    That's my whole argument. It's more trouble than its worth, it's a relic from a simpler time and whilst core values may be good, they are human values, not religious ones.

  • #219 3 years ago

    DaDon123456 you sound like a fucking islamic preacher! Take your Bs else where, this is a gamers forum, most here dont give a flying fuck about any religion especially in this climate where its distorted to kill in the name of some imagery fuck no one has ever met.

    And Allah is fictional, have you met him yet? No didnt think so. Next youll be tellling me you believe in ghosts.

  • chronom4n #220 3 years ago

    Sony and everyone else involved in trying to resolve this issue reminds me alot of the goody-two-shoes who in the early 1900's wanted to close down the freak shows believing that the performers were being abused, violated and not given their rights or whatever else. But then the circus acts had nowhere to go and ended up in a far worse situation, if the goodytwoshoes had left them alone, the circus performers would have been far better off. in some ways, whoever is trying to do this is going to end up giving muslims and islam a bad name.

    On top of that i can't believe some of the comments here, is this what you folks are really like apart from being video-gamers?

  • Les #221 3 years ago

    "The Quaran only appears to say inciteful things when you take it out of context. But when you read it properly you see that there is no hate at all."

    Which would be fine except that there is no way to read it properly and the idiotic fundamentalists have just as much a claim on the proper reading as someone moderate has. Religous texts are, because of their age, completely out of touch with the world we live in. To use them as infallible guidelines nowadays is lunacy.

  • TRUTH #222 3 years ago

    I have looked into it, I have muslim friends who actually agree that Islam is become very hateful and intolerant. The problem is that the Qu' aran does talk about non muslims as poison and the same about gays, but about murdering them is confusing matter as some Islamic scholars say it's okay and some don't.

    I work with a female muslim at work & a male - both have different oppinons to how a female should be in a Islamic world. The man likes a conservative way, the female does not. Yet both come from the same country and both have a different view. This can be tolerated in the west (opinion), but won't in various Islamic countries due to there different interpretation of the same religious txt in the Qu'aran.

  • DaDon123456 #223 3 years ago

    PixelLive
    I dont mean this in any disrespectful way at all.
    You seem to have changed your tune completely. It was your post that made me feel obliged to comment:

    'These comments aren't racist; they're anti-religion. RELIGION IS STUPID. ISLAM IS STUPID. THESE RELIGIOUS TABOOS SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN ACCOUNT OF.'

    Your last post is showing your argument of why you feel religion should have no place in this world. But mate - Im not arguing against that! My simply was that terrorism has NOTHING at all to do with the Quran and Islam... And please dont deny that thats exactly what you tried to uphole. Read all your posts if you dont believe me. Only in your last post do you seem to put up a coherent argument, but against something that I wasnt even arguing with.

    Anyway I cant think properly because my brain wants sleep. Perhaps if this thread is locked by tomorrow we may talk again.

  • Les #224 3 years ago

    "In my opinion religion, as a concept, has no place in the modern world."

    +1

  • DaDon123456 #225 3 years ago

    Wow TRUTH you call that looking into it? The only way you can look into it is by reading the book yourself, not by asking a few 'muslims'. If what you say is true, it would seem to me that these Muslims havnt even read their own book!
    Anyways im going sleep now.

  • mkreku #226 3 years ago

    Haha, that must be the most stupid thing I've ever heard of! Sure, waste your millions on nothing, Sony..

  • Les #227 3 years ago

    "Where on earth do you think most world teachings and the education system comes from? Do you claim to be an educated man yet see no basis for the existence of religion?"

    Yes I do. The fact that our ancestors believed the crap is because they hadn't yet developed the tools and knowledge to form a better, rational understanding of the world. No need to continue that tradition know that we know better. Of course I understand, as an educated man, the reasons that fostered religious believes in a scienceless world. But nowadays there's simply no excuse to still claim protection for such backward ideas.

    "Do you actually think that a population with no apparent reason to live would be a good one to live in?"

    There can only be reason without religion. I pitty someone who can only find reasons to live in religion. Life is beautiful as it is and to water it down with religious ideas is the real shame. And personally the idea of an omnipotent zoo keeper performing funny (or should one say tragic) experiments with people doesn't comfort me much.

    If there is a god he could settle the argument this instant in his favour by showing up. The fact that he obviously doesn't and the ridiculous excuses religious people have thought up over the ages for this fact tell you one thing: In the unlikely case that there is a god, he/she is an asshole.

  • MightyMouse #228 3 years ago

    God I hate people who use religion to prosecute nonsense like this. Grow up, it has nothing to do with your religion and by taking offense you merely reveal what an intellectual cretin you are that you can't understand the spirit of something. If anyone really thinks that a videogame of this type is trying to spew religious hatred then they are seriously retarded.

    Edit: Something much harsher! Grrr!
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 00:52

  • PixelLive #229 3 years ago

    But DaDon123456 I've never said that the Qur'an promoted terrorism!

  • Windsong #230 3 years ago

    Is there any year where the Muzzies arent offended by *something*?

  • SPKRFCKR #231 3 years ago

    ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS

  • udat #232 3 years ago

    While not particularly cheery, the words are at least accurate (novel, for a religious text) - we are all going to die.

  • PixelLive #233 3 years ago

    Lol, not I've calmed down... I'm a little big glad. I wish it wasn't delayed until November (although this isn't confirm)... but there are so many games coming out that LittleBigPlanet would have sucked up all my time.

  • TheFamousKevin #234 3 years ago

    My problem with this thread is that it misses the point:

    Some people will find this deeply offensive.

    No-one wants that (do they?)

    It needs a recall to get fixed.

    End of. I don't care what your views on religion are, or who you think is likely to kill you because of this, or how bigoted you can be in a post containing the words 'I'm not bigoted but...' Ultimately Sony doesn't want to upset people with this AAA family oriented title, and I completely support their decision. Quite rightly they don't care whether you're not insulted, they care that some people could be and have taken steps to change it.

    I have a Muslim friend I showed a couple of trailers to. She was genuinely excited about the game, and wanted to get a PS3 to play it on. This afternoon I explained I was sad that LBP is delayed, and the minute I said 'words from the Qur'an put to music' she replied 'that's not right'. She's no extremist, and I don't think she speaks for all Muslims, but why would you upset someone like my friend just so that the 'open-minded' atheists can play a game.

    On a business basis this was the right decision. On a moral basis this was the right decision. This was the right decision, and once again I'm glad that it has given me the chance to use the ignore button on some of the more shocking commentors here.

    As for those who think Sony should have know this before it went 'gold', I think that it is a fair assumption to make that the song is clean, but sometimes you're wrong, and need to take steps to fix that
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 02:50

  • FenderMaster #235 3 years ago

    I was raised roman catholic, and the whole Manchester Cathedral in Resistance thing really is far worse than scripture lines in background music....

    I mean... gunfights ocurred in a holy christian place of worship and no one gives a fuck!!

    Then a couple of lines of scripture occur in background music and a far more peaceful, non offensive game gets recalled?!

    why is the world so afraid to offend Islam, but ready willing and able to offend every other religion?

    why is Islam different? why is upsetting jews, christians, buddhists and hindus ok, but offending Muslims such a big deal?
    there's alot of Buddhists that don't believe in idolizing the Buddha, but no one gives a shit, statuettes of Buddha are sold in the tackiest of stores...

    double standards ftl

    if its okay to offend every other religion then it should be okay to offend Islam too, every person in the world has their own set of values, and all will be offended by something, so you can either walk on eggshells all your life, or just accept that other people dont share your values/beliefs, live and let live

    Catolic --> Atheist --> Starting to discover Buddhism
    Edited by 2 at 18/10/08 @ 03:01

  • TheFamousKevin #236 3 years ago

    @chronom4n

    'Sony and everyone else involved in trying to resolve this issue reminds me alot of the goody-two-shoes who in the early 1900's wanted to close down the freak shows believing that the performers were being abused, violated and not given their rights or whatever else. But then the circus acts had nowhere to go and ended up in a far worse situation, if the goodytwoshoes had left them alone, the circus performers would have been far better off. in some ways, whoever is trying to do this is going to end up giving muslims and islam a bad name. '

    Greatest post ever. We should upset people for their deeply held beliefs about God, because if we could still laugh at freaks they'd at least earn some money from it. I hope you're as pissed as me if you think that is a good point.

  • complexion #237 3 years ago

    I can't get over some the things people are saying, the game got delayed people! It's still coming out! No need need to start going all hitler

  • SEVQA #238 3 years ago

    All religions and religious get the fuck off my planet, you’re spoiling it!

  • gaselite #239 3 years ago

    Many of you honestly need to grow the fuck up. It's pathetic. It's a videogame delayed by a matter of days. A videogame. Ride a fucking bike for the next couple of weeks or something.

    I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember, but Sony haven't done a bad thing here, even if it does annoy many of the spolit brat gamers who will surely buy the game anyway.

  • gaselite #240 3 years ago

    further to my last comment I just want to agree with TheFamousKevin who said everything worth saying about this issue.

    I just can't qualify how childish so many of these comments are.

    The party that is looking to be the most ignorant, hateful and spiteful here are the videogamer community. That's not especially surprising given that gamers, in general, are quite stupid, but it's disappointing all the same.

    I hope you all enjoy today's edition of the Daily Mail.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 05:33

  • Krun #241 3 years ago

    Insanity rules.

  • TonCapone #242 3 years ago

    Isn't it funny how people always say "I'm not racist" seconds before saying something extremely racist.
    This game should be pulled to correct this blunder.
    For all you arseholes out there, the USA and UK attacked Islamic countries, without a single concern for those people's culture or religion. Do not be fooled by the Murdoch controlled media.
    By the way Sony, nice way to get the extra time you need, free publicity,look religiously sensitive whilst stirring up anti Islamic propaganda all at once.
    Sony themselves couldn't have thought this out better, or could they?

  • TonCapone #243 3 years ago

    And people do worry about upsetting Christians, especially Islamist countries , because when they do their country tends to be flattened by bombers, invaded and it's political system upheaved. All by people from countries whose main religion is none other than "peaceful" Christianity.

  • Les #244 3 years ago

    "The main point I meant to make was anyone who says "religion must die" or anything similar is just as bad as someone from one faith saying that another should die as they don't believe in their god. Do not force you views on another person, whterher that be athiesim or a recognised religion, otherwise it makes you mental. If you are rational, you are able to understand other peoples views."

    No, atheists just want religion to go away, not the religious people. Atheists don't profess irrational believe systems and therefore don't have to kill people that happen to think differently. Atheism is not a faith and can never be put on equal footing with any system that consists of a world view with no basis in empirism.

    I'm all for not forcing your views unto others, religion would die in an instant if that were ever prohibited. Parental brainwashing is what keeps it alive in this age of reason and science. Educate people and fewer and fewer will be lured towards the ludicrous world views of ancient history. And never, ever show respect for religion itself by pretending it's a world view with as much value as a rational world view.

    I'm all for removing the right to freedom of religion for a right on rationality. If educated people still want to believe, fine, their choice. In a rational, democratic society they will not be prosecuted. But their fairy tale believes should never, ever restrict the rights of people with a different view and that is what happened in this case.

  • Les #245 3 years ago

    "Isn't it funny how people always say "I'm not racist" seconds before saying something extremely racist."

    Being against muslim faith is something else than being against muslim people though I have to admit in this day and age racists often disguise their racism as islam-phobia. That's a very bad thing IMO: xenophobia is wrong. And it puts genuine atheists in a bad spotlight as well. IMO all religions are equally bad: They are all based on obsolete world views that don't hold up to rational examination.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 08:41

  • TonCapone #246 3 years ago

    How many games have been pulled because they feature US marines on missions to an imaginary Middle Eastern or East European country to kill Muslims or Communists? NONE
    How many games exist where you are an heroic Islamic or Communist freedom fighter taking on the imperial might of the US? NONE

    Of the hundreds of US/UK orientated shooters none are banned or compained about, this shows a remarkable level of tolerance from those who have been demonised.

  • beckyh #247 3 years ago

    This does not make sense. If the phrases were from an already released song then surely there would have been an outcry about its presence in the song. Why did nobody complain about the song first?
    I wonder if the complainant was a Microsoft employee ;-)

  • Les #248 3 years ago

    "One thing that annoys me about Islam in particular is that it's still so invested in the laws and societies of many countries. The same could be said about us in the west with Christianity at one point, but it seems that the Western world, from a judicial and governmental level at least, has outgrown its religious roots. Separation of Church and State."

    Very true. Though it's a shame the US seems to be moving back to the dark ages under pressure of christian fundamentalists.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 08:49

  • TheFamousKevin #249 3 years ago

    @TheBlackLodge
    "Choice.

    I can't see how giving people a choice (which a take it or leave it patch on day one would represent) would have been such a bad idea. You appease those that don't give a fuck and those that do. Tis surely just common sense and would avoid all of this sillyness."

    How do you appease someone who doesn't give a fuck? I mean they don't really want anything.

    @beckyh

    Isn't the song in Somali? I'm really not down with the east African pop scene from a couple of years ago, his could have been massive news there and then. It probably wasn't though. I guess it shows how people react differently to different media. LBP is a game for kids, so I guess that makes a difference.

  • Les #250 3 years ago

    "What about the moral guidelnes all law and general goodwill come from?"

    They don't come from faith, they come from people, who put them in faith. We people have morality because we are social animals: We need each other to survive. Simple as that. There is no objective "good" and "bad", they are, like god(s), constructions of the human mind.

    You claim to be a non-believer. Do you cheat people? Do you assault them, steal their property or kill them? It's very likely that you don't. And that's not because of the assumed fact that a socialist and terrorist that is said to have lived over 2000 years ago said we should love our neightbour* like ourselves but because of the fact that a morality based on that rule is the only sustainable one in a social species.

    * And contrary to what most people seem to think nowadays, the 'neighbour' concept of new testament only included other jews (as Jezus, if he existed, was a jew). It was perfectly fine to treat a non-neighbour like a piece of dirt. From Enlightenment on, the concept was gradually expanded to include all other human beings, not just one's clan members. This didn't happen through divine intervention but rather through a lack thereof.

  • muftak #251 3 years ago

    You do know its not being racist as islam/muslims arnt a race its a relgion so this is called Discrimination.

    What annoys me is if they had lines from the bible nothing would be said islam is way to over sensitive over stuff like and they do wonder why poeple hate them at the moment.

    Look at the schools now they dont celebrate christmas cuase it might upset the other relgions but what about me i love christmas i love the whole christmas story thats what i been bought up on and it sickens me that there isnt a christmas just a winter holiday.

    I will never knock anyones faith but what i belive is if you come to a christian country then you MUST follow christian ways and not try and force your own relgion on people , But seeing UK christians are a dying breed others religons take the piss when they come here.

  • mcmonkeyplc #252 3 years ago

    LOL

  • Les #253 3 years ago

    "PixelLive you are not understanding my point. Ill be as clear as possible.
    I can kill and rape anyone I want in the name of Democracy. So now are you going to blame Democracy for my ignorance?
    You talk about the Crusades. The Christians can argue that Jesus condems the crusades.
    I can cause VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF ATIESM. Does that mean Atheism is evil? Bottom Line = Unless the belief or law promotes evil, you cant blame the belief or law for people using it as an excuse to kill!
    Let us assume that there is this bloke called Allah. Is it his fault that his followers are not doing what he says to do in his book? Please answer."

    Probably because the point is very stupid.

    Anyone can claim to do something in the name of anything. But the way you use it in your examples, it's just empty words with no deeper context.

    Religion provides the context (infallible texts, social pressure) for doing terrible things. Reason doesn't.

  • Les #254 3 years ago

    "I can't get over some the things people are saying, the game got delayed people! It's still coming out! No need need to start going all hitler"

    Ridiculous post. What has Hitler got to do with this?!

    As for the delay, I couldn't care less (which is a bit hypocritical as my copy has already been mailed to me from the US). What I do care about is bigots putting restrictions upon what I can experience.

  • Vanmunt #255 3 years ago

    Update, can’t be arsed to read the probable rhetoric from morons on this site but it is only delayed by one week... out Oct 31st (which was the original date!!) So off to play fable for a week sweet... that is unless they find it is offensive to west country people, which I am so ban it... grr I am outraged!!

    Also ban the EG winning level, as I find it offence to burgers.

    ‘the squeaky wheel gets the grease’

  • ObiChrisKenobi #256 3 years ago

    Its all turned a little Gamefaqs in here :\ Fair play to Sony though, I think that makes all three developers/publisher with a game they've had to recall due to offensive wording.

    Nintendo - Mario Party 8, over the 'Spastic' affair in Europe.
    MS - That strange fighting game that had things from the Koran
    Sony - LBP

    You'd think they'd learn from each other XD

  • TONYgr #257 3 years ago

    well i have the american version.i have imported it.they dont TAKE BACK MY COPY!IM TOO ADDICTED TO GIVE IT AWAY!

  • Andy247 #258 3 years ago

    Is it just me that doesn't understand why that warrants a recall? Is anyone likely to be offended by it, it's not as if other games haven't lifted from Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc. etc.....

  • Stoatboy #259 3 years ago

    I'm not sure Muslims are Sony's main concern here.

    Seriously - imagine mainstream American news channels running a story that Sony's flagship family-friendly game features lines from the Qu'ran that mean "Every soul shall have the taste of death" and "All that is on earth will perish". You think christian America is going to be OK with that? It really doesn't matter that the lyrics, in themselves are harmless, and are nothing to do with the game at all - people in the main are ignorant, intolerant and are more than happy to find a new reason to be offended. There would be a media shitstorm.

    When Resistance pissed off the church it didn't matter - the offended parties probably weren't going to buy anyway. With LBP Sony are trying to sell to everyone, and it's the game they're pinning their hopes on. They REALLY don't want negative press here.

  • bonker #260 3 years ago

    Well I've only just picked up on this and it's just fucking choice isn't it?

    If you ever wanted concrete proof that 'we' are NOT winning the war on terror then this is it.

    Big corp's and governments running in fright from upsetting backward-minded people who contribute absolutely fuck-all to our civilisations is proof-positive that these cunts are calling the shots in our 'society' today.

    My retirement plan (in 4-5 years time, hopefully) kicks off with a one-way ticket to the far-east and I can't fucking wait to get on that plane.

    My sympathies to all who will be left behind in Britainistan.

  • bonker #261 3 years ago

    "Once again. This is not the fault of Muslims. This is a massive overreaction on Sony's part. They could've easily issued a day one patch, but they chose to go this route. "

    It's the same reaction you get everywhere these days mate when some Muslim says he has been 'offended'.

    You have to realise that this language does not mean what it used to mean.

    When you and I say we are offended, we mean we are offended.

    When a Muslim says they are offended, they are threatening you directly - hence the reaction by those who are threatened.

    If you repeatedly appease people who take the piss, as clearly we are doing in this country, you get this sort of BS which ultimately will build up to major conflict.

    Go ask Neville Chamberlain ...

  • IronCladChicken #262 3 years ago

    @TheFamousKevin
    Most Muslims belong to a certain race

    No, dude that really, really isn’t the case - Although obviously people from the Islamic states are more likely to be of the Islamic faith; the religion is HUGE covering many part’s of the globe (not just the middle east) including people from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds (over 20% of the worlds population is Islamic after all) - Which makes your statement pretty racists, sure :)


    @TheFamousKevin
    Islamophobic

    Islam is a religion, not a place - 'A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم‎ pronounced Muslim, not Muzlim) is an adherent of the religion of Islam' (from Wiki)

    I would imagine most people posting here have no problem with the Islamic faith but do have a problem with the Medias/political over sensitivity to any/all potential Islamic issues. (Certainly to a level that isn’t representative of the feeling of the vast, vast majority of those who believe in the Islamic faith).

    I think this was highlighted most prominently by the episode of South Park where a depiction of Mohammed was cut by Comedy Central, but the image of Jesus flying around shitting on Bush and the American flag was green-lit without issue.

    Though this is obviously influenced by the recent terrorist activity by extremists, politically it is often used to self-publicise the politician or to push through another law limited out individual liberties by encouraging fear and intolerance in our society.


  • Les #263 3 years ago

    "but then all you're saying is religion should be killed off, thus saying people should not be allowed to choose..."

    I'm not saying religion should be killed off, I say it will die if children will be stopped being brainwashed: So by educating children instead of forcing outdated world views upon them, there will be not much room anymore for religion and it will be essentially 'killed'. Of course people should be free to choose, that's the whole point of not allowing bigots to indoctrinate children. My point is that if you really let educated people choose they will in general not choose religion. Those that still do are of course free to do so as long as they don't bother other people with their delusion.

  • Les #264 3 years ago

    "Les, where did I say I was a non-believer?"

    You're right, you didn't. My bad. It should have read: "You claim to be non-religious".

  • bogmonster #265 3 years ago

    why do they have to take back the entire shipment of lbp? couldn't they release a patch or something???
    btw some people already have it, are they getting theirs replaced??

  • bonker #266 3 years ago

    "We have taken immediate action to rectify this and we sincerely apologise for any offence that this may have caused."

    Surely the offence, to 99.999% of LBP buyers, is that they are reacting in this way?

    I think that's the real story here and I look forward to hearing Sony justify this reaction to the vast majority of their consumers, i.e. why they were 'forced' (in EG's own words) to do this ...

  • Les #267 3 years ago

    "Having to wait a bit longer for a game to be released is not a reasonable excuse to make bigoted statements about somebody else's culture and religion."

    No it isn't. Having the contents of a game changed because of bigots is.

    I used to be a cultural/religious relativist myself but at some point I realized that it just doesn't hold: Humanity as a whole isn't served by encouraging world views that are wrong.

  • YeOldeGamer #268 3 years ago

    So we can expect all games that have bible words to be recalled.
    Yeah, right.

    This is Sony giving in to the fascist cult of mohammed. Sony are cowards.

  • bonker #269 3 years ago

    "So we can expect all games that have bible words to be recalled.
    Yeah, right.

    This is Sony giving in to the fascist cult of mohammed. Sony are cowards. "

    They won't recall bible-related stuff because Christians tend not to threaten you if you don't comply 100.0% with their views.

  • chronom4n #270 3 years ago

    Here is something that fascinates me about religions, in hinduism they have 'the untouchables' who are looked down on by the higher casts. Is that not a blatant form of discrimination? What amazes me even more about the whole LBP issue is that FFS it is not different to Qawalli. Here is something all those so called muslims should think about before they start complaining is that if they are so offended about a few quranic ayats being implemented into a games structure, 1 - do they consume alcohol? do they consume haraam foods? do they fuck outside of marriage? etc. In other words it means nothing to me anyways if they seem so offended by this recall because it is just hypocricy. The other thing that this forum has shown me is that, and i have said this in an earlier post, I now see that there are gamers who outside of gaming are just as hateful and closed-minded about other peoples beliefs and convictions. to me it makes them no different to those people who they hate.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 13:51

  • bonker #271 3 years ago

    "Hmm, an interesting one and for some reason I generally agree with a recall, but I'm not even sure why. "

    Because you feel threatened if it is not removed and because we are losing and they are winning.

  • superted #272 3 years ago

    this is total crap, something which is fundamentally bollocks being respected...

    i fucking hate religion

  • bonker #273 3 years ago

    "Wow TRUTH you call that looking into it? The only way you can look into it is by reading the book yourself, not by asking a few 'muslims'. If what you say is true, it would seem to me that these Muslims havnt even read their own book!
    Anyways im going sleep now. "

    What the book may or may not say is neither here nor there.

    These people acted with their own minds - you can't attack the book or the religion but the people doing this shit (and worst of all, getting away with it) are who should be brought down along with the pandering, appeasing, feckless fucks letting them get away with it ...
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 14:22

  • YeOldeGamer #274 3 years ago

    @Arbiter

    'Modern Islam'?!?!?!?!? What the hell is that? Islam hasn't changed one bit since those cavemen wrote it down.
    Muslims are as intolerant as they always have been. They just have more to be intolerant about thanks to multi-culturalism and the interent, which allows them to see how un-islamic the rest of the world is.

  • Les #275 3 years ago

    "Islam hasn't changed one bit since those cavemen wrote it down."

    Uhm, well actually they were nomads... Islam is christianity adapted to the morality that suited the life of dessert nomads better. Muhammed (the praised one) very likely was just a reference to Jezus but as time went by and the nomadic tribes came more and more at odds with the christians in the region islam and christianity became more and more separated. Essentially the same thing that happened when the christians adapted judaism. Why invent when you can copy?
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 15:06

  • Les #276 3 years ago

    "It's only a piece of music being replaced, so its hardly going to change the overall playing experience."

    I know. But it was a track specifically selected by the artist because it fit the level. And then in comes a person with a vision on the world that is plain wrong that wants the song removed because he feels offended in his irrational believes. Next, fear of lunatics boycotting their product or doing worse things to company personnel makes Sony remove the song. Surely this can't be something good?

    If rational people say "well it's only one song" or "well, it's only one cartoon" they are missing the point: This is bigger. It's reason giving in to delusion. Perfectly explainable given where we come from, with hundreds of years of religious ignorance shaping our culture and values, but surely it's not a direction that we want to keep on heading to?

  • JediMasterMalik #277 3 years ago

    Mohammed (saw) was not only a religious figure, but a historical one. There aren't enough similarities between Jesus (ra) and Mohammed (saw) for there to be any argument they were the same person. Seriously, don't mouth off if you don't have any real knowledge on the subject. You could at least spell Jesus (ra) correctly.

    And to say Islam has not changed since it's inception is also incredibly ignorant and shows the level of knowledge bandied about by people who think they know the facts. Seriously where do you guys get your inormation from? The sun?

    Islam was originally possibly the most tolerant major religion, in fact the change which has happened to Islam has made it more intolerant.

  • secombe #278 3 years ago

    Just read quite a few of these comments, I knew some you guys got heated about the console wars, but f'ing hell there are some serious issues here. What's the average age here? A high volume of the comments are pretty darn shocking.

    The game has been delayed by a couple of weeks, ffs, get a girlfriend or spend some quality time with your family or something. There are more important things in life, in fact I can think of few things less important.

  • Les #279 3 years ago

    "Mohammed (saw) was not only a religious figure, but a historical one."

    Highly doubtful (same goes for Jesus by the way - it's no coincedence that the first stories about either one appeared well after they were dead) and because of the fact that within muslim countries studies towards the origins of islam aren't exactly encouraged we will probably never learn what really happened (if the evidence does still exist - history is written by the victor).

    "You could at least spell Jesus (ra) correctly."
    Sorry for the error, that's the way it's spelled in my first language.

    "Islam was originally possibly the most tolerant major religion, in fact the change which has happened to Islam has made it more intolerant."

    It was more tolerant than the christians were in the dark ages but not close to what we in a modern Western society would call tolerant. And yes, it became worse as the time went by.

  • DjFlex52 #280 3 years ago

    At least noone can blame xbots/xbox 360 owners for the dumb comments in this thread...whew ;)
    I see that stupidity isn't exclusive to PS3, 360 or Wii owners.

  • BartonFink #281 3 years ago

    Sounds like a shitstorm over nothing … if they are that easily offended then it’s a good idea to remove it. Imagine the consequences if they didn't remove it.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 17:52

  • superjag86 #282 3 years ago

    am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO gutted :(

    oh and religion sucks
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 17:45

  • JediMasterMalik #283 3 years ago

    I feel sorry for you if you really don't beleive he was a real person.

  • TRUTH #284 3 years ago

    Didn't the Taliban destroy the statue of Buddha that was of great importance to Buddhist, and also of great history. The Buddhist where massacred by the Muslims as they were not muslims - Afghanistan was not previously a Muslim country.

  • TRUTH #285 3 years ago

    So all those terrorists & haters of all non-muslim things - do they practice the Qu'raan right ? They say they do!

  • RedSparrows #286 3 years ago

    Oh dear, OH DEAR, OH DEAR.

    One way to guarantee the most fucktarded combination of straw men, conspiracy theorists, intolerant nubs and general idiocy is to do a news story with anything Islamic in it. I don't like the belief in a big man in the sky, and i don't like the attitude of anti-Islamic nubbery that goes around too. Islam is a noun, referring to a religion. That comprises an awful lot of people. Who don't, amazingly, all think the same thing about every little detail of their religion, or indeed about anything. In contrast, this plurality is to be welcomed in all discussion, and so if anybody did call for this to be done, I respectfully disagree.

    Sony withdrew it, it's their decision. It might have been brought about by pressure (link anyone, or do we assume someone cried foul?), or it might have been considered expedient. Either way I don't necessarily agree with it, but nor do I agree with the attitude that Islam is the root of all evil (or rather, Today's Culturally Centred View of Evil That Is Dictated By An Accident of Where I Was Born).

    P.S. if anyone mentioned 'politcal correctness' as an excuse for a lack of critical thinking and as a byword for 'something I dislike', then I hope Allah himself comes down and kicks you in the ass, because that pithy fucking nebulous phrase that's used off-cuff by anyone who cares so much they can't decide what actually angers them pisses me off so much. Yeah, there's idiocy at times, and yeah, you perpetuate it.
    Edited by 2 at 18/10/08 @ 18:57

  • RedSparrows #287 3 years ago

    'This decision probably is on a similar level with councils removing all mentions of Christmas and wishing everyone a happy winterfest. A little bit too PC... '

    This is a case in point.

    WHEN. DOES. THIS. EVER. HAPPEN?

    I ask you. Birmingham City Council decided, about a decade ago, that maybe ***ALONGSIDE*** Christmas, something called Winterval should be introduced to appeal to minorities. Problem? Anyone? It was scrapped.

    So now, every Christmas, when you walk down the street and the whole world is Christmas crazy, and lights are everywhere, and shops are literally covered in Christmas decorations, the media is full of Christmas news, the littler kiddies singing Christmas Carols about Jesus, and you settle down for a watch of a Christmas film, you can smugly say to yourself 'fucking political correctness, I'm so repressed'.

    I'll stop now.

    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 18:52

  • Corben_Dallas #288 3 years ago

    Durka Durka Mohammad Jihad


    Hallalalalalalalalala aie!
    :p

  • MisterKIKI #289 3 years ago

    Yes, I am disappointed by the delay too and I am a practicing Muslim. Just to put things into perspective, as I'm sure some might even want to dissect THAT little statement, I recently completed my fast during the month of Ramadan and celebrated Eid. But, I am also a gamer and to quench some people's stereotyping further, the only AK-47 I ever wave around is in Call of Duty 4.

    I have not come across many posts from other Muslims, but it is likely not because there aren't any Muslim members here. Posting myself, I feel like I am putting myself out to be, figuratively speaking, lynched by the mob. The kind of atmosphere we are generating here is caustic! I wonder if we would have seen 315+ comments simply because of the popularity of the game and not the current reasoning behind its delay.

    There is, unfortunately, no middle ground when it comes to acceptance of either pro or anti religious views. And sadly only very few people are able to express tolerance, but when it comes to games and as a gaming community, it is what we should be striving for, no?

    I expect someone is thinking, "Should I be tolerating someone flying planes into my building?", while someone else is thinking "Should I be tolerating the pre-emptive invasion of my country because of 9/11 when they're really only after my oil?"

    I am not offended by those phrases being included (I am not remotely fluent in Arabic either, so I would not have understood them straight away). I would be, however, offended by media outlets and its audience who use this as the only thematic representation of my religion. Although mortality and an end-of-the-world situation seem pretty plausible to me, I am already seeing how this idea is interpreted as evil and exclusive to Islam. For that reason alone, I see how this has no place in AAA Sony title aimed at everyone.

    Thankfully we won't get to that stage and I want to thank those who don't believe in my views, but choose to respect, not necessarily my views themselves, but the fact I have them and can separate that from extreme fundamentalism. Right back at ya! At the end of the day, we are all gamers and we will all be playing Little Big Planet and loving it to bits!

  • turnget2005 #290 3 years ago

    @MisterKIKI

    Well said. :)

  • Collymilad #291 3 years ago

    Absolutely ridiculous.

    It's like the whole world is desperate to please muslims 100% these days, why?

    @REdsparrows - DO YOU LIVE IN THE UK? If you do, you're blind, ignorant or delusional. Muslims are pandered to and catered for like nothing on earth here - and i pty anyone who cant see it.

    Anyway im going to go before i say something i really regret.
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 21:23

  • DAL9000 #292 3 years ago

    Les: if you /really/ don't believe Muhammed was a historical person, you're, uh... wow. You're so ludicrously wrong I don't know where to start.

    I mean, I'd say that in a politer way if I /could/, because that would make you more receptive to my message -- but, I mean, you're just /wrong/. He was, in fact, an actual, historical person. There's /no/ debate over that among historians -- and for that matter, re. Jesus, there's very, very little debate over Christ's historicity as well.

    In the case of Jesus, there are a few fringey historians who argue that he's mythical -- and by "a few" I mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 to 5, out of the /hundreds/ of historians who specialize in early Christianity. It's decidedly a minority viewpoint that's rejected (when it's not outright ignored) by mainstream academic historians.

    And, since talking about our personal religion seems to be all the rage in this thread, I'm Jewish, so I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just sayin' -- Muhammad's historicity is /extremely/ well-established. The idea that he never existed is bizarre and I don't know where you're getting it.

  • DAL9000 #293 3 years ago

    And, MisterKIKI, well said indeed. And because I just can't let this go:

    Les: there's no shame in admitting you're wrong about something. Please just do it here, since after all you seem to pride yourself on rationality and the triumph of knowledge over ignorance.

    I swear to you -- Scout's honor! -- that you are /profoundly wrong/ re. the historicity of Mohammad (or however you choose to transliterate his name) -- and that anyone who's actually investigated the issue in ANY depth at all, unless they are /batshit insane/, agrees with me on this. Really.

  • DaDon123456 #294 3 years ago

    By the looks of this thread I dont think its the Muslims who are intolerant............. But Im bored of trying to explain to some people here. Bye Bye
    And get over the delay.

  • DaDon123456 #295 3 years ago

    I would just like to add to DAL9000 point about Muhammeds existance:

    Les, the fact that you doubt Muhammeds existance shows how little you know about Islam.
    Ever heard of the Islamic pilgramage? Often when making that journey, Muslims VISIT HIS GRAVE. He is buried in a Masjid in Madinah. I really cant beleive you would say such a silly thing. It kind of explains all the silly answers you have been giving.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #296 3 years ago

    Misterkiki has hit the nail on the head right there, respect to you sir for putting it out on this thread.

    edit: Les, Mohammed was definitely a real person
    Edited by 1 at 18/10/08 @ 21:53

  • hokuto_no_rob #297 3 years ago

    Threads like this make me ashamed to share a hobby with you people. Grow the fuck up.

  • AgentCool #298 3 years ago

    This is utterly ridiculous and I'm not even bothered about the game being delayed, looking forward to it as much as I am. Since when did it become unacceptable to quote a book? Here we are in the 21st century and there's a shitstorm about quoting a book. I wouldn't even consider blaming Muslims for a second either. This is a classic example of a Johnny Do-Gooder trying to justify their existence by stirring up a storm in a teacup for no reason other than to feel good about him/herself.

  • Kryon #299 3 years ago

    Although Les is a total Sony fanboy cock and a bit of a gayer. I actually think he's pretty much spot on in his view on (all) religion. He could have put it across slightly more diplomatically but I also agree that religion is no longer needed, why would anyone hold faith in a book that was written when people still believed the world was flat?

  • DAL9000 #300 3 years ago

    DaDon: Yyyyup, Muhammad was a real person aaaand I'm glad you agree. But may I ask why you keep citing the Qu'ran but not the hadith, btw? I don't think you can reasonably say, "ISLAM IS SUPER-PEACEFUL AND IN NO WAY RETROGRADE HERE LOOK AT THE QU'RAN!" but /not/ say, "... mind you, many of the hadith are a bit less creditable."

  • byron_hinson #301 3 years ago

    @ hokuto_no_rob

    Agree there - all I want to know is if the copy of LittleBigPlanet I've had since last tuesday will have to be returned or patched in the end lol!

  • bonker #302 3 years ago

    "There is, unfortunately, no middle ground when it comes to acceptance of either pro or anti religious views. And sadly only very few people are able to express tolerance, but when it comes to games and as a gaming community, it is what we should be striving for, no? "

    There used to be, plenty of middle ground. Unfortunately, due to the recent actions of people acting in the name of your faith, the middle ground is gone and perspectives are polarised to the point, as I said earlier, that any Muslim claiming 'offence' is perceived as making a direct threat to people's safety. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but that absolutely is how it is and unfortunately, it's a bed that 'you' made and 'you' will have to lie in.

    "I expect someone is thinking, "Should I be tolerating someone flying planes into my building?", while someone else is thinking "Should I be tolerating the pre-emptive invasion of my country because of 9/11 when they're really only after my oil?" "

    I think a lot of people could, surprisingly, actually see the 'merit' in the 9/11 actions and it changed a lot of people's point of view. The problem is that, with the point having been clearly made, it is still being rammed home with BS like this and that's where it's all going to go wrong for people of your faith I'm afraid, as you'll keep on pushing and taking from a liberal society such as ours until 'we' snap and you'll end up losing the lot ...

    "Thankfully we won't get to that stage and I want to thank those who don't believe in my views, but choose to respect, not necessarily my views themselves, but the fact I have them and can separate that from extreme fundamentalism. Right back at ya! At the end of the day, we are all gamers and we will all be playing Little Big Planet and loving it to bits! "

    I totally respect anyone's views as long as they don't involve me being forced to comply with them in any way such as with this latest BS. You gotta draw the line somewhere or the worst will happen ...

    As salam alaykum.

  • DAL9000 #303 3 years ago

    @bonker: Nnnnn-oooo, I'm gonna have to say you still sound full of frothing-at-the-mouth xenophobia. But it's interesting how you try to sound reasonable now that you're talking to an /actual Muslim/, when -- back when you thought the thread was Muslimrein -- you wrote: "We are losing and they are winning... the people doing this shit (and worst of all, getting away with it) are who should be brought down along with the pandering, appeasing, feckless fucks letting them get away with it ."

    Why exactly did you change your tone? I'm genuinely curious. Why are you being more polite to a Muslim's face than you were when you thought there weren't any Muslims around? Do you hope, by moderating your tone, to sound reasonable -- to sound like somebody they can talk to? Do you hope to make /observers/ think you're more level-headed?

    I just -- what are you trying to gain? Did any conscious thought go into the decision at all? Or were you just a bit more polite by reflex, for the same reason you might call someone a big fat ugly bastard when he's /not/ around, but you'll smile at him next time you see him in the street?

  • bonker #304 3 years ago

    K, not hard this:

    My initial comments were aimed at the ludicrous amount of 'power' that special-interest groups have and that could be any special interest group but in the context of this thread, yes, I'm talking about Muslims and the fear they have projected into our society such that the media is running scared and corp's like Sony run for the hills cos some dickhead has posted something in a forum.

    I sure as shit don't have anything against Islam personally or Muslims in general, I'm relatively anti organised religion generally I guess but at least they don't have a 'pope' FFS.

    No idea where you get the xenophobia thing from mate, absolutely no idea, I haven't mentioned any race and have barely even alluded to Islam where others clearly have. I'm very liberal minded generally but there's always a line to be crossed and once you cross it you better step the fuck back has always been my philosophy. I don't care what anyone thinks about anything, it's entirely up to them but when their thoughts start impinging into my world then the line has been fully stepped over! That goes for Muslims dictating, anything, to me and Jehovah Witnesses ringing my door bell in equal measure.

    I'm not sure what the issue is with the bit you re-quoted? Again, I'm merely pointing out that pandering to the uber sensibilities of special-interest groups ('they') sells our society ('we') down the river. You're always going to have groups of people that want everything their own way and it's the job of government to stop them forcing their issues on everyone else, especially when they barely make up 3% of the population. Look at the USA FFS, far-right Christian fundamentalists calling the shots is working for you is it? This sort of shit ends in death, lots of it, as history has proved over and over again. If you appease and pander to people who have only their own interests at heart then at some point one or both of you will end up staring down the barrel of a gun ...

    As for change of tone - well I imagine that in my initial anger, my earlier posts were more rantish but to be fair, they were aimed at the principles involved and the general situation, not at any individual, whereas my final comments to the Muslim guy were conversational between me and him and specific to the points he had raised so yeah, I'm bound to tone it down a bunch cos that's being polite, right?!

    FWIW, I was brought up Catholic but don't own a bible, I do, however, own, and have read, the Qu'ran :)

  • wayneh #305 3 years ago

    I am racist lets that get that out of the way straight away. I don't go out of my way to ridicule/attack or demostrate against ethic minorities but never the less I resent the way they are constantly pandered to in the UK/EU and am therefore branded a racist. This game is another example of the bullshit we have to put up with in modern life. WTF does it matter if two lines of the Qu'ran are quoted? If it was two lines from the bible would anyone really give a shit. All the posts on here praising Sony for their decision are just wrong. If it was something offensive like all muslims/jews/christians etc. should die than obviously thats an issue. But for fucks sake get a life if you find this offensive, you must find life a real struggle and must be offended almost every day of your miserable exsitence. The fact the game has been delayed is not an issue, I can wait, its the reason why that winds me up.

    Edited for punctuation and grammer several times
    Edited by 3 at 19/10/08 @ 06:25

  • DAL9000 #306 3 years ago

    "... so yeah, I'm bound to tone it down a bunch cos that's being polite, right?!"

    Right. Fair enough. I should not, in retrospect, have asked the questions that I did -- I /was/ curious, but I was asking from the assumption that you were some sort of cynical, hardened veteran of many an Internet flame war who was playing to the gallery, rather than an ordinary dude who just kind of spoke in haste. That was stupid of me, and pretty damned unfriendly; I apologize.

    Though having said all that, we may just have to agree to disagree about the bit I quoted. Talking about how "we are losing" the war for our cultural sensibilities, and how vocal members of minorities and "the pandering, appeasing, feckless fucks letting them get away with it" should all be swept away... well, dude. I mean, you're right that I'm an American, so I don't know if the BNP talks like that -- but I do know that the Klan does.

    At the very least, you really, REALLY need to reexamine your rhetoric. It has racial overtones like you wouldn't /believe/: basically it says,at least to my American ears, "THOSE UPPITY MINORITIES ARE DESTROYING OUR SOCIETY! And the /race traitors/ who let them get away with it are the worst of ALL!" Now, again, cultural context plays a damned significant role in how I received it... but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you came across just about as poorly to a European audience.

    (Mind you, I /do/ commend you for getting all the way through the Quran. I got as far as Sura... 18? 19? Somewhere in there, before I just kinda got bored and wandered off. Scripture is so friggin' deadly-dull to read. My stars.)
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 02:56

  • Triggerhappytel #307 3 years ago

    To those suggesting a patch would have been adequate: I don't think Sony could take the chance to assume that every LBP owner will be going online.

    I'm sure it will be the vast majority, just not everyone.

  • HermitArcader #308 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • MarkHW #309 3 years ago

    "Some people will find this deeply offensive.

    No-one wants that (do they?) "

    Problem is, for pretty much anything you may want to say, or put into a game or film or book or song, or whatever, there is someone, somewhere that will find it offensive. I'm sure there are nutbags out there that find Mario & Luigi insulting to Italians (or plumbers).

    It's a matter of being sensible. If this had been about, I don't know... an image of Mohammed getting blown by Sackboy or something, then yeah, I could see that might be worth a recall. But a song? With lines from a centuries old book? By a devout muslim songwriter? Which is commercially available on iTunes, Amazon and others?

    It's patently ridiculous. Why not just get some stickers printed saying "Warning: This game contains two lines from the Koran"? It would cost a fraction of a recall, and affect sales figures by about 3.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 07:19

  • Rodney #310 3 years ago

    Im not sure if this thread is still going....

    Nobody has the right not to be offended, because such a right is not be workable in a free society.'Offense' is too subjective for individuals or groups to be protected against. After all, some extreme atheists may be offended by 'Songs of Praise' but it would not be reasonable to ban the show to protect atheists from possible offense.

    However, just because we have the right to offend, does not mean that we should go out of our way to offend just on principle. In a pluralist society we should seek not to offend other people, so long as they and their beliefs are benign, if only out of good manners and for social cohesion

    I dont believe in capitulating or cow-towing to religious fundamentalist types. The only Muslims who would find LBP offensive and call for a recall are the same ones we should be marginalising in society. We should not be encouraging or empowering them by giving into their unreasonable demands. Before I am called a 'militant atheist' I would use exactly the same arguement and logic against the hypothetical banning of Songs of Praise to appease atheists.

    However in this case, I believe Sony made the right decision to pull the song from LBP (although a patch might have been a better way to do it) Not because some minority groups moght be offended but because the content of the song was not at all appropriate for this type of family orientated game. it was completely at odds with the whole style and presentation of the game. Religion, either pro or con, has no place in a game such as LBP.




    Edited by 3 at 19/10/08 @ 10:29

  • Kryon #311 3 years ago

    Seriously, will some of you idiots forget about Islam for a moment. Sony has recalled the game because the backing track IS NOT SUITABLE for a family audience. No, the words are not offensive, but they ARE NOT SUITABLE for a family audience. Get it?

    I'd guess that Sony are more worried about complaints from dumb bigoted Americans whinging that this game is indoctrinating their children into Islam. Rather than complaints from Muslims themselves. SONY FUCKED UP, NOT MUSLIMS...GET OVER IT YOU FOOLS, FFS!
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 09:43

  • hannibaldave #312 3 years ago

    Oh dear. Looks like loads of people just shat all over themselves up in here.


    Well done Sony, glad to see it.

  • bonker #313 3 years ago

    "Seriously, will some of you idiots forget about Islam for a moment. Sony has recalled the game because the backing track IS NOT SUITABLE for a family audience. No, the words are not offensive, but they ARE NOT SUITABLE for a family audience. Get it?

    I'd guess that Sony are more worried about complaints from dumb bigoted Americans whinging that this game is indoctrinating their children into Islam. Rather than complaints from Muslims themselves. SONY FUCKED UP, NOT MUSLIMS...GET OVER IT YOU FOOLS, FFS! "

    Sorry mate but that's bollocks.

    Sony pulled the game because they felt threatened, end of.

    Not suitable for a family audience - why is that then? Cos the mere sniff of Islamic references is so offensive that children shouldn't be exposed to it? Great! (not!)

  • Rodney #314 3 years ago

    DaDon123456

    You have been debating whether or not Koran condones/incites violence and intolerance. This is somewhat missing the point, the majority of the rules of Islam come from the Hadiths, not the Koran. The Koran is the alleged word of God as dictated by Mohammad to his scribes and the Hadiths are based on the biographies of Mohammad written by his contemporaries. Many Muslims hold the Hadiths in as high regard as the actual Koran and regard them as the word of God. The Hadiths is where Sharia law is derived and one will find plent of intolerance and hate within them, regardless of context. 'whoever changes religion-kill him'

    Also, the Surahs withinin Koran, by Mohammads own admission, contridict each other. Some are all about tolerance 'there is no compulsion in Islam' but others are about as intolerant as you can get . To pick and chose the Surahs or to give legitimacy to one interperatation over another just because it happens to fit in with your liberal world view makes the whole thing completely arbitrary. By doing this you are also giving validity to the fundamentalist interperations because they are as equally supported by scripture as your own.

    The only way to reconcile Islam and tolerance is by ommitting the intolerant parts of Islam or jumping through all sorts of apologetic hoops.



  • bonker #315 3 years ago

    "Though having said all that, we may just have to agree to disagree about the bit I quoted. Talking about how "we are losing" the war for our cultural sensibilities, and how vocal members of minorities and "the pandering, appeasing, feckless fucks letting them get away with it" should all be swept away... well, dude. I mean, you're right that I'm an American, so I don't know if the BNP talks like that -- but I do know that the Klan does. "

    Well, with respect, you are saying swept away, not me, I was careful with my wording, there at least :) I said brought down, meaning brought down a peg or two/marginalised/whatever not swept away implying pushed into the sea etc.

    "Though having said all that, we may just have to agree to disagree about the bit I quoted. Talking about how "we are losing" the war for our cultural sensibilities, and how vocal members of minorities and "the pandering, appeasing, feckless fucks letting them get away with it" should all be swept away... well, dude. I mean, you're right that I'm an American, so I don't know if the BNP talks like that -- but I do know that the Klan does. "

    I had no idea that you were American! I only used the Christian fundamentalist context as it's a perfect fit as, at root, they are doing *exactly* the same thing as fundamentalist Muslims with *exactly* the same results.
    The Klan are dickheads in the same way that the BNP are utter dickheads although maybe the Klan can say something and have it published/aired as fundamentalist Muslims can - the BNP can't - spot the problem there??

    "At the very least, you really, REALLY need to reexamine your rhetoric. It has racial overtones like you wouldn't /believe/: basically it says,at least to my American ears, "THOSE UPPITY MINORITIES ARE DESTROYING OUR SOCIETY! And the /race traitors/ who let them get away with it are the worst of ALL!" Now, again, cultural context plays a damned significant role in how I received it... but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you came across just about as poorly to a European audience. "

    In truth, I think your ears heard it just fine as that is what I was thinking at the time and what I still think now. If you can't get past the point of accepting that, generally speaking, people from wildly different countries/cultures tend to have different abilities (good/bad) then I just can't get with that, to me that is pie in the sky thinking and just not borne out in the real world. We have an influx of immigrants in the UK at the moment (again) but this time around the majority of them are Polish and you know what? They speak English, they're bright, they work their bollocks off and they're, by and large, honest and want to build a life for themselves. They also helped our asses out in WWII so, to me, they are more than welcome. The other mass immigration we had here from other countries in the 50s/60s contrasts with this recent experience like you wouldn't believe and fuck me are we paying for it ...

    I'm sure I do sound like some nationalist right-wing mother fucker but I'm really not, I'm as liberal as they come but you've got to draw a line somewhere before irreparable damage can be done. Case in point - a British couple were convicted in Dubai for shagging on a public beach the other day and given a three month prison sentence. I heard this on a national radio station whilst driving to work and txtd in to the station say that it was unfukinbelievably disrespectful and stupid and that they should have been given 3 years, not months which they actually did read out on air lol! Again, there are lines drawn according to a particular society's culture and if you take the piss you should be hammered, bigtime.
    I've been to Dubai and Egypt more times than I can count on one hand (I've never travelled West tho - I live in Birmingham, England BTW) and multiple times during Ramadan - I didn't drink or eat during daylight in public, didn't even carry water with me or drink alcohol on the hotel beaches etc out of respect cos that's their way at that time and I'm a guest in their country and culture. People who don't behave in such a manner are utter c*nts in my view and that goes for the British people shagging on a beach in an Islamic state and for fundamentalist Muslims telling me what to do/think/say in my own country.

    As for the Qu'ran reading, well I enjoyed it and I achieved my objective of gaining my own understanding of the 'tone' of its message rather than getting it from some fundamentalist twat or a tabloid newspaper. Clearly, as my travels around the world show, I'm interested and indeed, attracted to some aspects of Eastern culture and I sure feel closer to God when I'm out there in the hot sand.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 11:41

  • RedSparrows #316 3 years ago

    'Absolutely ridiculous.

    It's like the whole world is desperate to please muslims 100% these days, why?

    @REdsparrows - DO YOU LIVE IN THE UK? If you do, you're blind, ignorant or delusional. Muslims are pandered to and catered for like nothing on earth here - and i pty anyone who cant see it.

    Anyway im going to go before i say something i really regret.'

    I do live in the UK. If you read my post I said I didn't agree with this. As for pandering, it's a tricky question. Given that apparently, white men consider themselves to be repressed (judging by the sentiments I have encountered, while not of course a true survey..) when they are of course, still, the most powerful group in society, I'd say there's an element of bullshit. Also given that most stories about 'Muslims get something banned' are so chock full of holes and distortions that they usually mean 'some idiot has said this might be good to ban, because they want it that way. Hence, we said no/we will modify one tiny aspect/fuck off' etc. The attitude of some religious people stinks, but so does the attitude of some non/other religious people.

    By the way, if anyone says 'I'm a racist', that's not actually a bonus, you know. Racism is a filthy, fucked up world view, and you do not gain credence by being honest in that respect. If you can justify an irrational, unfalsifiable, immoral and hypocritical world view to yourself, then you're in serious trouble. (Not directed at you Collymilad).

    Anyway, I don't agree with this, and I don't agree with the competing narratives at work: ALL MUSLIMS ARE PANDERED TO vs ALL MUSLIMS WILL GET US IF WE DO THIS. Both are wrong (beyond the rare and of course, terrible, attacks that have been comitted, but which happened because of an irrational and hateful view that needs no justification from minor incidents). I don't like the big man in the sky idea, and that there is a dominat world ideology to be spread, and I most certainly do not like the lazy, reactionary and utterly moronic attitude that passes for anything resembling 'debate' that apparnetly exists in vast swathes of peoples minds when anything about religion comes up, or 'political correctness' - replete with pithy phrases and stock terms that mean you don't actually need to think, and just let the rage pour out of you.
    Edited by 2 at 19/10/08 @ 12:34

  • Law07 #317 3 years ago

    Threads like this make me ashamed to share a hobby with you people. Grow the fuck up.

    PS3lol

  • gaselite #318 3 years ago

    Another thing so many of you silly cunts have failed to realise is the fact that the recall is obviously not just an issue of cultural sensitivity, but the chance to remove phrases like 'every soul shall have the taste of death' from what is ostensibly a children's videogame.

    I bet someone will reply to that with 'but it's not in English omg'

    You feckless turds.

    This thread is still deeply embarrassing and infuriating.

  • bogmonster #319 3 years ago

    does this mean we offend muslims if we say anything thats in the qu'ran without realising it?

  • FortysixterUK #320 3 years ago

    Ludicrous. I suppose they are worried about everyone's PS3s being targetted by extremists and blown up.
    What a sad state this planet is in.

  • RESIDENT_nEVILe #321 3 years ago

    This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I just wonder how many posters in this comments thread get all their worldly information from the Sun and Daily Mail?

    I wonder how many of you have been directly affected by the issues you seem to know everything about? Oh yes, a game has been delayed for a few weeks.

    Seems like a lot of ill-informed folk are just parroting the contents of tabloid articles.

  • old_skool #322 3 years ago

    I find it humorous that some people think that the world consists of only the UK/EU and the they're the only ones playing games. It's also laughable that the criticism are coming from people knowing next to nothing about Islam or religion in general.If you want to blame anyone for 'fundamental, radical' Islam then blame the UK/US for supporting the Taliban, giving them money and weapons to fight those 'evil' Russian Communists, supporting the Arab kingdoms/sheihkdoms in this age of democracy with their highly literal and narrow minded interpretation of the Quraan and for them cracking down on any moderate group that has an opinion other than theirs.

    /edit spelling gremlins
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 13:40

  • Kryon #323 3 years ago

    @Bonker

    Not suitable for a family audience - why is that then? Cos the mere sniff of Islamic references is so offensive that children shouldn't be exposed to it? Great! (not!)

    So you'd be perfectly happy with your 4 year old listening to lyrics like 'Every soul shall have the taste of death'? It's not appropriate, is it! and you seriously think after 9/11, white Americans would accept a game with Islamic references like that in it for their kids to play? Get a clue mate.
    Edited by 2 at 19/10/08 @ 17:55

  • bonker #324 3 years ago

    "So you'd be perfectly happy with your 4 year old listen to lyrics like 'Every soul shall have the taste of death'? It's not appropriate, is it! and you seriously think after 9/11, white Americans would except a game with Islamic references like that in it for their kids to play? Get a clue mate. "

    There are many 4 year old kids who can understand Somali in the UK are there? (Somalian immigrants aside) What's more, that may sound like an easily understandable phrase to you as, I assume, an adult but even if it was in straight English I doubt that any pre-teen kids would have a clue what it means and even I would have to run to my Qu'ran to try and track it down to get it in proper context. I really don't see how the actual words have any bearing on this issue, the Muslims who complained were complaining about phrases from the Qu'ran being in the song, not what the actual phrase was ...

    I really hadn't thought about the USA side of things cos, frankly, I don't give a toss but yes, I imagine there would be quite a few people kicking off over there for the different reasons that you allude to but I also imagine that *many* more Americans would be questioning what the fuck happened to their First Amendment?!

    Anyway, even looking at it from your point of view, that the phrases themselves are abhorrent (for non-religious reasons) and should be removed, I think this all still proves my original point of how appeasing special-interest groups ultimately leads to bigger and bigger conflict through, ironically, reduced tolerance.

  • boomboxdan #325 3 years ago

    omg thats bollocks! what a waste of money !
    'good things come to those who wait' better be out-fucking-standing for the wait of this game

  • Kryon #326 3 years ago

    Bonker, it doesn't matter whether we understand the language, a young child wouldn't understand a porno mag either, doesn't mean I want them to have one, the fact is, it's not appropriate for a game that is intended to be played by children. There would inevitably be controversy caused by upset parents in the US (and probably elsewhere too) and Sony don't want that, and yes it would ,I'm sure, upset some Muslim people too, Sony don't want that either.

    At the end of the day, Sony should have checked the contents of their software before sending it out, they foolishly didn't and now have to delay it, as far as I'm concerned, that's the end of it. If others want to use this as another excuse to bash the Muslims, well, that's their business...
    Edited by 3 at 19/10/08 @ 16:38

  • paulf #327 3 years ago

    'We need religion. Otherwise you get 'people' like Les. Religion makes us humans. Without it we are just animals/Les (and those like him).'

    unfortunately religion also gives people the excuse to commit some of the worse atrocities in history.

    On another note the main problem here has nothing to do with muslims or religion - its that a vocal minority can effectively censor a piece of media by kicking up a fuss about the content. And as an issue of censorship it should be seen in the same way - an informed person should be able to make a decision on whether they want to buy that product or not (ie whether it will offend them) and those who are not offended will just buy it and get on with their lives.

    There's always gonna be someone somewhere who is offended by some aspect of something. It's pandering to these people that is the problem. Take this for an example - if a misguided someone suggested that the game was not suitable for children because it was narrated by a gay man would sony get someone else to do the voiceover?

    All that said sony have probably done the safest thing when you look at the violent protests that greeted 'the satanic verses', the cartoons of Mohammed and the book about his child bride - but then we are not only pandering to a vocal minority but we are also running scared because we fear a violent response - this is truly a sad state of affairs if true

  • JediMasterMalik #328 3 years ago

    Why are you a cock then?

    Also, accept not except.

  • Kryon #329 3 years ago

    'We need religion. Otherwise you get 'people' like Les. Religion makes us humans. Without it we are just animals/Les (and those like him).'

    Les isn't a cock because of his lack of religious beliefs, that's more because he's an SDF drone (which is basically a religion in itself). I think it's pretty sad if you need some old raggedy scripture to 'feel' human. I believe it's personality that 'makes' us human. Saying people without religion are 'just animals' is as stupid as saying those who follow it are merely robots who can not act of their on free will, although the latter is actually not that far from the truth tbh. I mean. you're here to do Gods/Allah's/Whoever's bidding, right? lulz. I do my own bidding, or I get one of my hoes to do it for me, fo-shizzle.

    Anyway, I still say this mishap is Sony's fault and not the Muslim peoples. You know, some Muslims are actually OK, they aren't all as retarded as Jedi Master Mohamed *cough* sorry, I mean Malik...

  • JediMasterMalik #330 3 years ago

    Bigots are funny.

  • Kryon #331 3 years ago

    Oh, and Malik. it's 'belief' not 'beleif'. KTHNXBYE.

  • JediMasterMalik #332 3 years ago

    Simple spelling mistake which happens when you're typing quickly on the internet. The same cannot be said for the difference between "Accept" and "Except". Mong.

  • Kryon #333 3 years ago

    I profusely apologize Malik. I wouldn't want you to burn an effigy of me or put a Jihad on my cat or anything.

  • JediMasterMalik #334 3 years ago

    You know nothing about me or my religion.

  • bigbadbeasty #335 3 years ago

    It seems very sad that they feel they need to recall millions of units, and in turn links to a load of wasted disks (not that easy to recycle either), all for something that just seems unnecessary. And in fact by changing it actually is causing more religious negativity.

    I really do not see how this could have been deemed offensive? Would a line from the lords pray be offensive? It this more about offending bigoted American's?

    I do not blame anyone for this, but it seems political correctness gone mad to me.

  • Kryon #336 3 years ago

    Funnily enough, I do. I know your age, I know you're an Ahmadi Muslim, I know that the SDF is more important to you than Allah and I know you're an utter cock-piece.

    AMIRITE?

  • JediMasterMalik #337 3 years ago

    Then you're ignorant about what any of that means. We don't burn effigies or put Jihads on cats.

  • Kryon #338 3 years ago

    Malik, it's what we call 'sarcasm'.

  • JediMasterMalik #339 3 years ago

    Funny.

  • Kryon #340 3 years ago

    Glad you thought so ;)

  • TRUTH #341 3 years ago

    I lived & worked in the Uk and yes as previously mentioned here - Muslims are catered for every bloody thing and yet they are never happy, yet they continue to threat social liberal society but are happy to live in a open society rather the an Islamic society. They do alienate themselves esp Pakistanis & Somalis. Some Musilm communities do live in dark ages where honour killing against females is accepted in certain Muslim backgrounds, also population per portion Muslims are actually quiet under educated with also the largest population of ethnic groups to be unemployed - this also the same around EU, this is usually due the fact they don't integrate as well as other ethnic groups & still refuse to move with the times...They continue to follow religion and never look out side religion, also make themselves feel like victims!

    You can call me a racist but the fact is this is happening and people are getting annoyed with it, yet we ignore the facts so we don't upset the Muslim communities...Go to Luton, Bradford, Tower Hammelts next time you vist the UK & you'll start to understand that they do hold themselves back & refuse to adapt.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 19:26

  • wayneh #342 3 years ago

    @TRUTH

    I agree with what you are saying having previously had the misfortune of living in Tower Hamlets (poplar) whilst posted to London. The biggest problem is that Muslims refuse to integrate and prefer to have their own little communities. Also they think they can still live to the laws from their country of origin and not the law of their newly adopted country. If they intergrated more into society political parties like the BNP in the UK wouldn't stand a chance. As it is the two London boroughs I have lived in, Tower Hamlets and Elephant and Castle both had BNP councils.

    I realise this is a very generic statement and is not true for all Muslims.

  • JediMasterMalik #343 3 years ago

    The lack of integration is a complicated matter. It's not simple as just stating "they refuse to", it's a social, psychosocial, aqnd historical issue. Which is why getting all your knowledge on the subject from The Sun is not a good idea. But hey, pretend you know something about.

  • wayneh #344 3 years ago

    @Malik

    I don't read The Sun the crossword is shit :-)

    But please feel free to educate me.

  • JediMasterMalik #345 3 years ago

    Like I said, it's complicated. If you want to learn about it, educate yourself on the immigration issues of the 60s and the British occupation of Hindustan (India/Pakistan) and the consequences of that. Then look at the cultural issues that make it difficult for people to integrate into British society. You'll find the problem does not lie completely with the immigrants.

  • Rodney #346 3 years ago

    gaselite, exactly.

    As a non Muslim I find the qoutes a little bit offensive/disturbing. Not at all appropriate for the setting of LBP.

    a world-wide recall is a bit drastic. I dont know how feasable a patch would have been?

  • Rodney #347 3 years ago

    Confounder

    you worry me. I wish God would do a product recall on you
    Edited by 2 at 19/10/08 @ 20:34

  • JediMasterMalik #348 3 years ago

    You find it offensive that everyone dies, and that all that lives on the planet dies?

    Who's offended by facts?

  • Rodney #349 3 years ago

    maybe offended was the wrong word. But 'everything dies' is not exactly the right kind of tone for LBP is it?

    maybe if there were emo sackboys

  • mrchu #350 3 years ago

    As time goes on metropolitan societies will gradually become more and more culturally diluted. The balance that will ensue as a result of this will mean much more acceptance and leniency. The reason this will happen is inherent to the evolution of the way people interact. We are exposed to each other, as a community (this forum being an example) and will become desensitised to the previously alien occurrences that separated us from our fellow man. This is good because it will reduce hate crime and allow mankind to reach its potential by working in harmony – advancing science, literature and the arts – i.e. developing and moving forward.
    However, this process is being vastly slowed down by the existence of religion - i.e. refusing to develop and being unwilling to move forward as it will contradict or offend archaic “teachings”.
    With any luck, as mankind grows and becomes independent, people will no longer feel the need for guidance from a higher power etc... . If we could deify the concept of human unity (rather than unknown forces of mystic power) then energy spent ‘practicing’ religion would have massively beneficial effects on our race. Rather than praying and reading “holy literature”, we would be undertaking day-to-day activities with no barriers between us that would have actual tangible results...not just satisfying religious obligation for the sake of it.

  • bonker #351 3 years ago

    "Bonker, it doesn't matter whether we understand the language, a young child wouldn't understand a porno mag either, doesn't mean I want them to have one, the fact is, it's not appropriate for a game that is intended to be played by children. "

    That's like the worst analogy I've ever seen made.

  • JediMasterMalik #352 3 years ago

    @Rodney - I agree it's not the right tone for the game, not that it owuld have made a difference to the vast majority of people, offended seemed like knee jerk reaction that made no sense though. :)

  • bonker #353 3 years ago

    "Like I said, it's complicated. If you want to learn about it, educate yourself on the immigration issues of the 60s and the British occupation of Hindustan (India/Pakistan) and the consequences of that. Then look at the cultural issues that make it difficult for people to integrate into British society. You'll find the problem does not lie completely with the immigrants. "

    Well few problem causes lie completely in one place so that's not really saying anything but please do explain what you mean by the issue of integrating into British society ...

  • JediMasterMalik #354 3 years ago

    Are you saying there isn't a problem?

    I know that it's difficult for someone from one cultural group to try and integrate with another, xenophobia, racism, ignorance all play a part. I most certainly don't want to suggest this only happens on the side of the British people, there are plenty of racists and bigots among the immigrant population too, but the way people speak about it seems to place all the blame on immigrants, which just makes things worse, incidentally.

  • bonker #355 3 years ago

    "All that said sony have probably done the safest thing when you look at the violent protests that greeted 'the satanic verses', the cartoons of Mohammed and the book about his child bride - but then we are not only pandering to a vocal minority but we are also running scared because we fear a violent response - this is truly a sad state of affairs if true "

    There's no doubt that it's true - Muslims kick-off, everyone else shits themselves and runs away from the threat. Littler wonder that some of the most violent countries in the world are dominated by Muslims.

  • JediMasterMalik #356 3 years ago

    What exactly does "most violent" mean?

  • bonker #357 3 years ago

    @JMM

    I'm certainly not saying there isn't a problem. The problem, and the size of it, is huge and costly to the host nation as a whole. Any measure of social integration will find Pakistanis/Bangladeshis firmly rooted at the bottom of the table for education achievement, English speaking, unemployment etc etc, even supplanting black people as the 'traditional underachievers' in society.

    Other ethnic groups generally find themselves at the other end of those tables, Indian & Chinese in particular.

    Why it's the same people at the bottom of such tables time and time again is probably beyond the scope of this discussion, unless you want to take it there, but it absolutely is the way it is.

  • JediMasterMalik #358 3 years ago

    I'm not arguing with you, I agree with you. :)

    I really don't know enough about it academically to have a detailed conversation anyway, but I have had first hand experience which is why I can't stand when the argument is always so one sided.

  • JediMasterMalik #359 3 years ago

    What I do disagree with is your comment regarding muslim countries being more violent than our own. In warzones that's obviously true, but in peaceful countries like Egypt and even Iran, I doubt you get the same kind of yob culture you get in this country for example. Some English youths outright disgust me with their behaviour, and it's becoming more and more prevalent. Again though, there's a lot of geopolitical reasons for why those countries are more prone to war, I don't think that necessarily has to do with Islam (Israel anyone?) but more about the location.

    I put bad youths down to bad parents ;)

  • ShiroBen #360 3 years ago

    What a colossal waste of resources.

  • bonker #361 3 years ago

    Well why don't you tell us a little about your first-hand experiences then?

    Yes, these arguments are always one-sided cos the minority side is never heard other than from a polarised pespective which doesn't educate anyone and merely inflames the rhetoric even further.

    As far as I can get with my own thinking is that people from countries such as Pakistan, Somalia, Jamaica etc just don't have the cultural impetus to get out there and graft for a living in the same way as people from more developed western countries and never the twain shall meet. OK, maybe not never but painfully slowly at best ...

    I like to think that I'm open-minded enough to acknowledge that 'our' way isn't necessarily the best way and I reckon we're further from God than most people from said countries in a 'Golden Calf' kinda way but on the other hand, I'm in one of those western countries and I'm busting my ass to make a better life for myself in the western way and I'm having to pay for thousands of people who can't/won't get with the program and contribute themselves, not just towards other people but to themselves even and that fucks me off as, again, I'm being made to pay for their inability to get with it.

    Re the violence thing: I think I'm just making a general observation that Muslim countries appear to be more accepting of violence as retribution/punishment. I sure as shit aren't going to defend British youth culture as it is now cos' it's shocking and, frankly, clearly influenced by some of the underachieving cultures that I've already referred to.

    For every Egypt and Iran (these aren't exactly shining examples of progressive society here BTW :) ) there is an Iraq/Syria/Saudia Arabi/Indonesia/Somalia/Sudan/Southern Philippines etc and other 'newer' Muslim influenced countries such as Nigeria where religious-motivated conflict is flaring big style following the implementation of sharia law in parts of a country whose constitution is supposed to guarantee secular government!
    Again, I'm not suggesting that you are less safe walking down those streets than your typical western city, probably more safe in fact but the point being that these countries accept and condone much more violent forms of legally accepted punishment than would ever be accepted in a western country - hangings/beheadings/losing limbs/stoning etc and that's before we even get to terrorist action not that we were short on that here ourselves in the 70s of course ...

  • Kryon #362 3 years ago

    <a href=http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image3/sub3/ koran-toilet-paper.jpg>Here</a> you go Lavalant.

  • bonker #363 3 years ago

    That's outrageous but that guy got what was coming to him:

    [link url=http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/12568.html
    ]http://ww w.theconservativevoice.com/arti...[/link]

  • sirtacos #364 3 years ago

    Shit happens. It's stupid, but what isn't these days. You're stupid, they're stupid - everyone's stupid. The only non-stupid thing about all this is that we'll all die eventually, preventing us from being stupid any further.

  • Bluetooth #365 3 years ago

    From a business viewpoint this was the wrong decision. Compared to the number of Muslims who won't buy the game based on the lyrics, to the added publicity and controversy the game would get if the lyrics were kept in (indeed, there will probably be quite a few Islam-bashers who weren't interested who would then buy the game to see what the fuss was about), it would have gave Sony far more sales. As it is, they have wasted weeks of advertising campaign money and millions of redundant Blu-ray DVDs (the treehuggers won't be happy with that).

    The best (and most cost effective) scenario would've been to patch and use the revised game for subsequent copies. That way it would have encouraged controversy to the offence, yet at the same time Sony would not be lamented as they promptly did something about it.

  • medissimo #366 3 years ago

    HAHAHAHAHAHA. brilliant. as a muslim i find this hilarious. how in the blue hell would i be offended by that!!!! who gives a shit, they are reciting words not pissin on the damn thing. if thats the case, next time some religious bafoon recites something ill make a fatwa on his ass. sweet jesus, political correctness, not religion will bring down this sorry world. GROW THE FUCK UP PEOPLE.......AND SONY. mostly sony.

  • bonker #367 3 years ago

    "The best (and most cost effective) scenario would've been to patch and use the revised game for subsequent copies. That way it would have encouraged controversy to the offence, yet at the same time Sony would not be lamented as they promptly did something about it. "

    Well obviously they felt that the level of threat was so great that their hand was forced on the issue. Having thousands of copies of the game on shelves across the nation 'forever' could have led to god only knows what in terms of demonstrations/violence etc. It's perfectly possible that Sony discussed this with their major customers and were told point-blank to get rid of it immediately for fear of in-store reprisals ...
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/08 @ 23:31

  • Vandrius #368 3 years ago

    I think this is actually a credit to them... it is a HUGE financial impact to them on a top-notch exclusive.

    But they're willing to take that hit rather than put out something that isn't perfect.

  • Rodney #369 3 years ago

    medissimo, you know whats sad? you represent your average Muslim far better than your self-appointed 'community leaders'

    I mean that as a compliment to you. I would guess that most Muslims, like you, would not be offended by this. It a shame the majority dont have as much of a voice as the shouty outraged fundamnetalists

  • Rodney #370 3 years ago

    Vandrius,

    you are right. but I have a suspicion Sony may have made the right decision but for the wrong reasons.

  • ChuckNorris #371 3 years ago

    Many people here assume that the recall was made due to consideration to the muslim audience. Why would they be offended by two lines from Koran? Iif you think about it, how do you think a game with islamic refrences would be greeted in american press? Would it be a disaster? Fuck yeah! The headlines would say something about a game that makes children strap bombs to their chests and blow up american troops.

    The recall isnt about being sensitive toward the muslims. Its about avoiding a potential PR disaster in the US, and therefore losing a shit load of money....

    Still buying it though.

    And also, the bible (particulary the old testament) says alot of violent things too, the references to the end of the world are the whole point of christianity. Would some line from the bible cause the same panic? For instance "and my wrath will burn, and I will kill you with the sword" - GOD Exodus 22:24 : Psalm 109:9; Lam 5:3 if it was sung in in old arameic? Doubt it.

    Hate this crap.

    Ps. sry bout grammar, not brittish.
    Edited by 1 at 20/10/08 @ 08:50

  • Rodney #372 3 years ago

    ChuckNorris

    funnily enough, I heard the the real Chuck Norris is actually a bit of a religious nut, thinks atheists should have 'atheist' tatooed to their forehead. Not sure how much truth there is in these rumours....

  • ChuckNorris #373 3 years ago

    @Rodney

    Chuck is an american cultural treasure. Not many people are as ridiculus as he is. The nick is ironic of course.

    http://ww w.swamppolitics.com/news/politi...

    He's fucking nuts
    Edited by 1 at 20/10/08 @ 09:06

  • SeesThroughAll #374 3 years ago

    @ChuckNorris:

    The issue is that Muslim religious icons like Mohammed or passages of the Coran must not be represented or sang outside ritual. This is why it's offensive to have passages mixed in a game soundtrack for some people. It's the way they choose to respect their Holy Book.

    Having the choice, shipping an offensive product would harm sales wordwide. Yes, even aside publicity.

    If you read the forum post where all this began, you would know that's the reason for the recall. Nothing to do with bombs or anything of the like.

  • ChuckNorris #375 3 years ago

    I know what they are saying, but I don't think that that's the only reason. The American press would have a field day. Imagine what Fox would say.

  • ComePlayDying666 #376 3 years ago

    muslims complain about anything ?? i think we should ban everything then so they have got fucking nothing to moan about ??

  • Les #377 3 years ago

    "I swear to you -- Scout's honor! -- that you are /profoundly wrong/ re. the historicity of Mohammad (or however you choose to transliterate his name) -- and that anyone who's actually investigated the issue in ANY depth at all, unless they are /batshit insane/, agrees with me on this. Really."

    There haven't been many real, scientific studies towards the historicity of either Jesus or Mohammed. Ages of religious indoctrination have ensured that even otherwise sensible historians take it for granted and don't

    It has to strike one as at least weird that influential 'persons' as Jesus and Mohammed do not show up in records that were written during their life but only show up way later. If there's good proof that either of them really existed I'm the first to acknowledge it but as it is there's still too much debate going on to accept either hypothesis as true.

    But of course if one or both of them actually lived, that doesn't mean anything for their prophesies. It just means that some crazy (if they believed them their selves) or shrewd (if they used faked prophecies to further their goals) people lived.

  • hiddenranbir #378 3 years ago

    Was the reference: Allah'hu'Akbar ?

  • Les #379 3 years ago

    "I put bad youths down to bad parents ;)"

    Influence of parents upon how kids turn out is minimal (close to enough to zero to say that there's none at all). People are shaped by their genes (about 50%) and their environment, not including the home situation (also 50%). Extensive studies on adopted children, twins, etc. have shown this. Good book on the subject is The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker.

  • bonker #380 3 years ago

    "Influence of parents upon how kids turn out is minimal (close to enough to zero to say that there's none at all). People are shaped by their genes (about 50%) and their environment, not including the home situation (also 50%). Extensive studies on adopted children, twins, etc. have shown this. Good book on the subject is The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker."

    Bollocks.

    Considering that everyone's genes are 100% (rounded) from their parents and that parents have far and away the biggest influence in what their child's (total) environment is like, I think you can safely nail the responsibility with parents ...

  • bonker #381 3 years ago

    "muslims complain about anything ?? i think we should ban everything then so they have got fucking nothing to moan about ?? "

    Don't worry, we're well on the way to that ...

  • Les #382 3 years ago

    "Considering that everyone's genes are 100% (rounded) from their parents and that parents have far and away the biggest influence in what their child's (total) environment is like, I think you can safely nail the responsibility with parents ... "

    I suggest you read the literature. It's contrary to what people expect (and to what a lot of us have been taught) but the evidence is irrefutable. The politically correct (and preferable) dogma in social sciences used to be the blank slate theory: All of us are equal, only our environment (including culture) determines how we turn out to be. This has turned out to be complete bollocks.

    And to be clear, parental upbringing has close to 0 effect on how a person turns out to be. Like I said, the genes still count for 50% so parents of course impact their offspring in that way. Children (and people in general) are impacted most by their peers.

    The "blame it on the parents" mantra is dangerous because it doesn't work and if we put all our effort towards something that doesn't work, we won't solve the problems while we do waste resources.

  • bonker #383 3 years ago

    "The recall isnt about being sensitive toward the muslims. Its about avoiding a potential PR disaster in the US, and therefore losing a shit load of money.... "

    Wrong - even Americans will put their First Amendment rights ahead of muslim-bashing.

    Direct quote from Sony:

    "Whilst shorter expressions from the Qur'an are sometimes used in Nasheeds, we are aware that the mixing of musical instruments with recognisable extracts from the Qur'an is offensive to Muslims. Therefore, we have taken immediate action to rectify this. We will confirm a new launch date shortly."

  • bonker #384 3 years ago

    "And to be clear, parental upbringing has close to 0 effect on how a person turns out to be. Like I said, the genes still count for 50% so parents of course impact their offspring in that way. Children (and people in general) are impacted most by their peers."

    I agree.

    Who has the biggest influence on who a child's peers are?

    The parents.

    Parental decision making (or utter lack of it in most cases) is far and away the most influencial aspect of how a child will turn out because it effects *everything* that follows.

  • Ranger101 #385 3 years ago

    @bonker:


    BOO!!

    Watch out! The evil mozzies are going to get you!

    RAAAWR!

    --------------


    [House of Lords]

    [Lords Statement]: M' lord, I present you with ample evidence in this here Internet Comments Thread, as to why we should ban the internet from within our fair shores of our Beloved Island of Britain. It would be for our own public protection against our own stupidity and bigotry that is generated in fear of 'Bogeymen'.

    Seriously, lets all do ourselves a favour, and Ban the Internet. We can always go back to the Top Shelf for porn.

  • bonker #386 3 years ago

    "If you read the forum post where all this began, you would know that's the reason for the recall. Nothing to do with bombs or anything of the like. "

    Well, with respect, it is absolutely to do with "bombs or anything of the like".

    Sony had warfare in a high profile Christian church in a game last year and there was uproar in the Christian community and front-page headlines with no effect whatesoever, NONE. No recall, no patch, nothing. It was even raised at Prime Minister's question time FFS!!!

    Contrast that with one Muslim guy in a forum somewhere mentioning that *HE* had an issue with two obscure Somalian phrases in a background song of a yet to be released game and *BOOM*, INSTANT WORLDWIDE RECALL.

    Now, are you seriously telling me that you don't think that action was specifically due to the perceived threat by Muslims?? A threat that noone in their right mind would have attributed to Christians, in what some would say was a far higher profile insult than this latest palava??

    Sony have *SHIT* themselves at the prospect of having their customer's storefronts (HMV/Game/Virgin etc) caved in/burned, riots in-store or whatever because of having that game being sat on shelves for everyone to pick up, not just next week but forever, like a ticking timebomb ...

    Sorry but anyone who does not see that as the reality is seriously deluding themselves.

    Companies like Sony, especially Sony in fact as they are fucked financially, do not take action like that, at the cost of millions, unless they perceive that the alternative is going to be much worse, much, much worse ...

  • Les #387 3 years ago

    "'We need religion. Otherwise you get 'people' like Les. Religion makes us humans. Without it we are just animals/Les (and those like him).' "

    LOL. Thanks for the compliment! :)

    And what exactly are people like me? What exactly do you know about me, other than that I'm an atheist and think religion is 'bollocks'? Pretty much nothing. Like I know little about you and will refrain from commenting on the kind of person you are, other than one that's quick to jump to conclusions.

    As for the animal part, that's of course right. But I hope this doesn't come as a shock to you: Ever since Darwin came up with his theory of evolution through natural selection is has been clear that all humans are animals. Everything that's alive is related.

    It's just my view that it's very sad if one needs delusion (because that's what religion is) to have a life that's worth anything. Unlike the religious view, my view is actually supported by evidence.

    And I'd like to stress again, my issue is not with religious people. In general their religiosity was forced upon them and it's hard (almost impossible) to de-brainwash them. My issue is with religion and its institutions themselves. But of course I hope, for their sake and for mine, that religious people are able to get ridd of the faith and replace it with a world view that's based on evidence. Because than we can all engage in reasoned debate instead of throwing dogmas at each other. In that regard, I'm a bit like the Jehova's Witnesses though I reason the opposite way: I want to save people from delusion. As a world view based scientific evidence is more worthwhile and less dangerous than one that's based on fantasy.

  • corposant #388 3 years ago

    This is a good thing. In the almost unimaginable vastness of space it seems perfectly reasonable to me to believe that some all-powerful entity will condemn the species he created to eternal suffering because one of them sang some words to a tune. What could be difficult to believe about that?

    We should be grateful to Sony. They've saved us all from burning in hell - which would clearly befall us if we upset this benevolent, forgiving and loving God that everyone keeps banging on about.

  • Les #389 3 years ago

    "Who has the biggest influence on who a child's peers are?

    The parents."

    So your friends where picked for you by your parents? ;)

    Children pick their own peers. Of course they are limited in this choice by things like where their parents chose (if they really had a choice) to live but that's an indirect effect. All that I'm saying is that parental education has little impact. So parents telling their children that they shouldn't steal while their friends do and thus are able to wear designer clothes have little effect on whether the kid turns out to be a burglar/shoplifter or not.

  • bonker #390 3 years ago

    "Children pick their own peers. Of course they are limited in this choice by things like where their parents chose (if they really had a choice) to live but that's an indirect effect. All that I'm saying is that parental education has little impact. So parents telling their children that they shouldn't steal while their friends do and thus are able to wear designer clothes have little effect on whether the kid turns out to be a burglar/shoplifter or not. "

    Right, sure, parental *education* has a much lesser effect and I'm sure you take on board my point that while a child will pick their own peers, the set of potential peers that they are choosing from is ultimately decided by the parents decisions prior to that taking place or, as is more often the case, the random and utter inability to make decisions of any kind by the parents ...

  • Les #391 3 years ago

    @ bonker

    I think we more or less agree. My point is that if a child turns out to be a criminal it's a bit too easy to blame that on the parents (just as it's too easy to praise them for it if he/she turns out to be a contributing member to society). Children do not become criminals because parents let them go to bed late at night. Children become criminals because they possess a set of genes that's less capable of fending off negative influences and/or because they grow up in an environment that has a relatively large number of criminals in their peer group.

  • bonker #392 3 years ago

    "@ bonker

    I think we more or less agree. My point is that if a child turns out to be a criminal it's a bit too easy to blame that on the parents (just as it's too easy to praise them for it if he/she turns out to be a contributing member to society). Children do not become criminals because parents let them go to bed late at night. Children become criminals because they possess a set of genes that's less capable of fending off negative influences and/or because they grow up in an environment that has a relatively large number of criminals in their peer group."

    Yeah but the amount of negative influences in their environment is down to the environment that their parents chose to put them in, ergo, it's the parent's 'fault'.

    Anyway, we're close enough lol

  • FrankCannon #393 3 years ago

    Methinks the content censors for LBP user created levels are going to be busy. Can of worms time here we come.

  • Les #394 3 years ago

    "The biggest problem is that Muslims refuse to integrate and prefer to have their own little communities. Also they think they can still live to the laws from their country of origin and not the law of their newly adopted country. If they intergrated more into society political parties like the BNP in the UK wouldn't stand a chance. As it is the two London boroughs I have lived in, Tower Hamlets and Elephant and Castle both had BNP councils."

    The biggest problem is that human psychology loves to think in "us versus them" terms. So immigrating muslims seek out other muslims while the natives try to get away from the immigrants. These two movements enforce each other. This has little to do with the muslim faith, the same thing happened with the labourers from Portugal, Italy and Spain who were 'imported' before and they were much more alike culturally. But it might be that religion enforces this even further (islam isn't exactly friendly towards infidels and there is the tradition of faith above everything else).

    Humans are predisposed to xenophobia and unless we recognize that, it's hard to figure out real solutions to existing problems.

  • GeneralVinyard #395 3 years ago

    so one muslim says jump and we all have to ask how high?
    i cant stand these clowns, always crying that everything offends them, if they dont like it, dont buy it.
    jimmy muslin on the corner, funny how he finds a computer game about sock puppets offensive, but a car filled with suicide bombers driving to a checkpoint to kill british troops hes fine with?
    get lost.
    let the flaming commence, at least i had the balls to say what you all thought.

  • Les #396 3 years ago

    "Let the flaming commence, at least i had the balls to say what you all thought."

    I sure hope not, though I fear you might be right... :(

    You can't criticize just muslims on irrational beliefs and let other faiths off the hook. Religion in general and religious apologism are the real problems.

  • malloc #397 3 years ago

    It's looking like the withdrawal of this game has caused more offence than if it had been released.

    I can't see anything wrong with developers not wishing to cause unneccessary offense and so deciding to not release a game before they change it. Surely we should be praising them. Nobody has actually made any complaints about the release of this game.

    Someone previously said that it would be better business-wise to include them, release it, and gain from the free PR. It looks like they've gotten plenty.

    As for people thinking they can 'disprove' religion on a gaming thread, hilarious. Keep going chaps, I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it.
    Edited by 1 at 20/10/08 @ 18:04

  • Les #398 3 years ago

    "As for people thinking they can 'disprove' religion on a gaming thread, hilarious."

    What, you're implying gamers can't have an intellectual debate?!

    Furthermore, nobody's disproving religion, it's quite obvious to all of us that it's here. And there's little need for disproving the religious doctrines as the onus on proving their world views is on them.

  • malloc #399 3 years ago

    "What, you're implying gamers can't have an intellectual debate?!"

    Are you infering that we can!?

    Take a chill pill mate. :)

  • Les #400 3 years ago

    "Are you infering that we can!?

    Take a chill pill mate. :)"

    Not all of us of course, but I've seen some potential around here... ;)

  • wayneh #401 3 years ago

    @LES

    Although I agree with your stance on religion and the fact it is no longer relevant in todays society it does and can provide some people the comfort they need to get through life. What it does do is provide a good moral compass and guidelines on how to lead a good life e.g. the ten commandments. Unfortuanetly though all the bloodiest wars in history have been over religion in a 'my version of GOD is better than your version of GOD and you must therefore be wrong'. Also some people then take this to the extreme i.e. fundamentalists.


    I'm not sure I agree with you on parental influences though. I lilke to think my children have grown up to be contributing members of society because of the values I have given them when they were younger. Yes their peer group does have a huge influence on behavior but that can be controlled to some extent. A lot of trouble is that parents don't communicate with their children anymore and don't take time to explain action/re-action/consequence when they are misbehaving.
    Edited by 1 at 21/10/08 @ 04:39

  • Les #402 3 years ago

    "t does and can provide some people the comfort they need to get through life."

    If one needs to believe in fantasy to deal with the world one would be better off visiting a psychiatrist IMO.

    "What it does do is provide a good moral compass and guidelines on how to lead a good life e.g. the ten commandments."

    If I'm not mistaken 3 out of 10 of the commandments are about god (no worshipping of idols/other gods, not using his name in a wrong way, keeping the sabbath), not exactly required for a modern good life. The others that are about social life aren't exactly mutually exclusive, collectively exhaustive. And the golden rule (don't do to others what you don't want to be done to yourself) isn't even in there.

    I don't know which author said it anymore, but it's not like people were violating the Ten Commandments until Mozes came down from the mountain.

  • ChuckNorris #403 3 years ago

    @Religion

    http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=casUr9UsabY

  • ChuckNorris #404 3 years ago

    @ "What it does do is provide a good moral compass and guidelines on how to lead a good life e.g. the ten commandments."

    http://ww w.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj88Nuu5x...

  • malloc #405 3 years ago

    Some potential, possibly, SOME. ;)

    These discussion always end up flaring up into something quite hideous and in fairness the atheist side flare up easily as much as the religious side.

    /coat

  • wayneh #406 3 years ago

    @Chucknorris

    LOL love the videos

  • zedzee #407 3 years ago

    If someone dressed up their Sackboy as a priest and made him run around in a church graphic, wielding a sword and 'killing' little spikey weeds or similar, Sony would not bat an eyelid.

    It seems that Sony can desecrated Christianity's places of worship left, right and centre (as in Resistance: FOM), yet even the mere mention of a few lines from the Quran is deemed deeply offensive! All that the track does is MENTION lines from the book, it's not saying ANYTHING bad against it or anything else for that matter.

    So why is Sony not treating all religions equally? Why no clear and unreserved apology about the fire-fight in Manchester Cathedral in R:FOM, yet in LBP's case, not only is an apology issued but probably Sony's last chance game at re-establishing itself in the current generation of console wars, as being back on top (because let's face it, it's trailing both Nintendo and MS badly at the moment), is WITHDRAWN from marketing altogether.

    Cowards! Sony just didn't want any burning effigies outside their HQs worldwide or worse still...well, I'll leave that to your imagination.

  • Les #408 3 years ago

    @ ChuckNorris

    Yeah, nice video. :)

    This one (though mainly audio with some slides which do not add much) is rather funny as well IMO:

    [link url=http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg
    ]http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg
    [/link]

  • GeneralVinyard #409 3 years ago

    @LES "Let the flaming commence, at least i had the balls to say what you all thought."

    I sure hope not, though I fear you might be right... :(

    You can't criticize just muslims on irrational beliefs and let other faiths off the hook. Religion in general and religious apologism are the real problems.

    good point mate, and i also hate it when the mora lmajority jump on the GTA bashing band wagon, however in this case it is the muslims to blame as they are the only one thats getting on their high horse about this game.