PS3 BC sacrificed for price

By Games Industry.biz Published 19 October, 2007

SCEA explains strategy.

The ability to play PS2 games is not a primary driver for the PS3's business, Peter Dille has told our sister site GamesIndustry.biz.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz, SCEA's senior vice president of marketing and PlayStation Network defended the changes made to the new 40GB unit that was finally confirmed for the US market this week.

"We've been hearing loud and clear that price is more of a primary concern to consumers," Dille explained.

"We know that getting down to USD 399 will open up the PlayStation marketplace to a much broader swath of consumers that we had been at, at either USD 499 or 599."

The new 40GB PS3 eliminates the graphics synthesizer chip which allowed prior versions of the console to play PS2 software.

When asked why the company didn't eliminate Wi-Fi instead as a cost savings, keeping the chip for PS2 backwards compatibility, Dille said there was a good reason for that decision.

"[W]e'll be rolling out more and more features that take advantage of the connectivity between the PSP and the PS3, and Wi-Fi is really essential to that experience," he explained.

"We've got some cool things you can do today with Wi-Fi, but there are also a lot more on the horizon that will help people understand why we left Wi-Fi in."

While Dille recognized that consumers still value the PS2 software catalogue, he pointed out that Sony is still supporting and selling the older system.

"If you take the USD 129 plus the USD 399 that the PS3 is being sold for today, you are still getting into the game for less than the USD 599 price we launched at."

Dille noted that Sony will reach ten years in the PS2's life cycle, with continuing third-party support, in sharp contrast to the way its competition handled their prior generation of hardware.

"Again, we know from our research that backwards compatibility is more important to some people than others," he explained.

"In practice, once you get the PS3 home, the ability to play games in high-definition is more what [consumers] are interested in than their back catalogue of PS2 games."

The complete interview with Peter Dille can be read elsewhere on GamesIndustry.biz.

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Comments (92) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dizzy #1 4 years ago

    What games?

  • sanctusmortis #2 4 years ago

    I'm pretty sure "being able to play the masses of PS2 games I own on it so I c an trade the machine towards the PS3" was also high on the list, however...

  • realworld666 Verified Lead Programmer, Fuzzy-Frog Games #3 4 years ago

    "If you take the USD 129 plus the USD 399 that the PS3 is being sold for today, you are still getting into the game for less than the USD 599 price we launched at."
    Ahhhh now I see. They don't want to stop sales of the PS2 by reducing the price of the PS3. It's still rubbish.

  • zuljin #4 4 years ago

    @Dizzy
    Theres plenty of games out and plenty of games coming out. Just walk past HMV if you're interested.

    Maybe they don't interest you, in which case fair enough, but all these PS3/Wii comments saying "theres no games" are really just not true.

  • Toothball #5 4 years ago

    Yeah, backwards compatibility is something I can live without. Can't manage without a rumbling controller though.

  • space_ace #6 4 years ago

    +1

  • Artemis_Matsas #7 4 years ago

    Well, i have to say that the Wi Fi functionality could be sold separately as an add-on.
    BC however when it's gone, it's gone. You cannot do anything about it.
    Oh well, i guess they know better.

  • JonFE #8 4 years ago

    Well, Sony could argue until their faces turn blue (to match the blu-ray laser :), but they should have done their research and cost estimation before promising the world 100% backwards compatibility.

  • Dizzy #9 4 years ago

    "Theres plenty of games out and plenty of games coming out. Just walk past HMV if you're interested. "

    Maybe.. but certainly less than on the other consoles and with lower scores.

    I think Sony just found out that 70% of PS3 owners are playing PS2 games and that is the real reason they dumped backward compatibility. Some publishers probably gave Sony a choice. Dump backwards compatibility or lose support. It has nothing to do with price.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 10:15

  • Steroyd #10 4 years ago

    What Bullshit I saw a quote flying around where someone from Sony admitted adding B/C wasn't really that costly.

  • dominalien #11 4 years ago

    "In practice, once you get the PS3 home, the ability to play games in high-definition is more what [consumers] are interested in than their back catalogue of PS2 games."

    That is so not true, at least for me. I still have so many games I want to play on the PS2. And the gfx quality does not matter to me at all.

  • Yaz #12 4 years ago

    Personally, I have never cared for BC on any console. It has never been a concern for me, since I prefer to play old console games on the original consoles.

    However, it is interesting to see Sony playing down BC today when they were the ones shouting it out from the rooftops before. ;)

  • Frogger #13 4 years ago

    They did a smart move with this release (at last) and this price point.

    What they now need is exclusive killer apps. And Dual Shock 3 in the pack. And five BluRay discs. This should happen by christmas 2008, but this year, they will still suffer from Ninty and MS competition.

  • Moonprince #14 4 years ago

    "In practice, once you get the PS3 home, the ability to play games in high-definition is more what [consumers] are interested in than their back catalogue of PS2 games."

    Not really. Not for me anyway considering the crap that's on ps3 compared to those ps2 games. kthanks shutup foo.

  • Turambar #15 4 years ago

    How does this effect PS1 games on the playstation store? Does anyone have a 40GB console and can say whether they show up on the store or have a warning on something? That said, surely full PS1 compatibility through emulation is achievable?

  • Putty-Man #16 4 years ago

    Backwards compat no big deal to me personally, but didnt Sony previously make a big deal of the fact their next gen machine was fully backward compat while the 360 was only half baked?

    Apologies if Im stating the obvious here.

  • rotmm #17 4 years ago

    According to Jack Tretton, the removal of BC had less to do with cost saving and more to do with trying to get owners of the PS3 actually purchasing some games for it.

    http://ko taku.com/gaming/spin/jack-trett...

  • Turambar #18 4 years ago

    ""In practice, once you get the PS3 home, the ability to play games in high-definition is more what [consumers] are interested in than their back catalogue of PS2 games."

    Not really. Not for me anyway considering the crap that's on ps3 compared to those ps2 games. kthanks shutup foo."

    Wait... Your primary concern when buying a PS3 was not to play high def PS3 games because (in your opinion) they suck but instead you bought it tto playt PS2 games? I think you bought the wrong console.

  • JimJam #19 4 years ago

    @ Putty Man - yeah, they slaughtered MS's backwards compatibility support (or lack thereof) at launch if I recall.

  • zuljin #20 4 years ago

    @Dizzy
    "Maybe.. but certainly less than on the other consoles and with lower scores."

    Such an incredible argument. People, please ditch all your next gen consoles because none have any games... Compared to the brilliant PC catalogue.

    The point was that games are here, so no need for all these "but wheres the games" comments. Quite frankly they're just as irritating as "so not as good as game X" and "so better than game Y" comments.

    @Turambar
    40gig PS3 is backwards compatible on PS1 games.

  • Dizzy #21 4 years ago

    "Such an incredible argument. People, please ditch all your next gen consoles because none have any games... Compared to the brilliant PC catalogue. "

    What a bullshit argument. People pick consoles for different reasons than a PC. PC and consoles are barely competing in reality.

    If you are an average consumer who wants to play some console games and have fun right now, is there really a reason to own a PS3???? That is why so many people are making fun of the available games because there really is no reason except if you like Sony or you like some specific games or you think you need Bluray. This is the reason the PS3 is getting hammered. PS3 needs games! Reality check for you m8.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 10:53

  • zuljin #22 4 years ago

    @Dizzy
    I have as more games on my PS3 than my 360. Granted main reason for that is my 360 is connected to a smaller telly, so tend to buy multiplatform titles for PS3 instead. So for anyone that just has a PS3, theres plenty out there. If you already have a 360, theres less reason.

    Of course it can always do with more games. Any console can.

  • chronom4n #23 4 years ago

    At least sony are adimitting the reason for the lack of b/c. People wanted the machines price to be reduced and sony have done that but at what cost? the cost of b/c. Personally i feel that considering how bloody cheap the PS2 can be bought for it's worth the small sacrifice.

    Anyways, like I have always said, the reason for this is that sony want to increase the PS3 user base just as the reason for the problems that the 360 has was that MS wanted to get into the next gen console race earlier than Sony just so they would have the sole bragging rights to say 'we got there earlier than you (sony, nintendo) have!"

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #24 4 years ago

    headbog: You forgot option 3, which is "trade in your PS2 for a worthwhile 40-50 quid off the PS3, but keep all the games so you can still play them on the new machine".

    I suspect this is because you're an idiot.

  • rogermellie #25 4 years ago

    I was rather late to the PS2 and so B.C. is important to me. I would've liked to buy the PS3 later in its life cycle to run both old and new favourites. It would be nice to have the choice.

    I'm just glad Sony/MS didn't treat DVD B.C. the same way.

  • bobshirunkel #26 4 years ago

    Sorry if I'm missing something here, but haven't Euro PS3's always used software for BC? We never had the chip. So do the new 40GB Euro PS3s still emulate or not?

  • rotmm #27 4 years ago

    headbog,

    Don't forget that you still need to add £15-£20 for a HDMI cable on the PS3.

  • JonFE #28 4 years ago

    @ bob:

    There are two PS2 chips inside the US and JAP versions of PS3, that enables them to be backwards compatible on a 100% hardware level.

    The EU model lost one of these PS2 chips, kept the second and relied on software to emulate the missing one, thus being backwards compatible through a 50% hardware / 50% software solution.

    The newly introduced 40GB model has no PS2 chips inside whatsoever, meaning that it cannot be backwards compatible anymore, because Sony is not capable (or willing) to go for a 100% software B/C solution.

    Hope that clears things up...

  • DjFlex52 #29 4 years ago

    "headbog,

    "Don't forget that you still need to add £15-£20 for a HDMI cable on the PS3."

    ....and a bluetooth headset which the PS3 doesn't supply either

  • Penguinzoot #30 4 years ago

    @bobshirunkel

    Sorry if I'm missing something here, but haven't Euro PS3's always used software for BC? We never had the chip. So do the new 40GB Euro PS3s still emulate or not?

    This seems to need explaining in every PS3 BC thread. Oh well.

    The original-spec PS3 lauched in both the US and Japan had both the PS2 CPU (Emotion Engine) and GPU (Graphics Synthesizer) physically onboard the motherboard to cater for BC. The 60GB Euro PS3 had the EE removed, but kept the GS to allow for software BC.

    The new 40GB model lacks both the EE and GS, so no, there is no chance of software BC. Not ever.

  • bobshirunkel #31 4 years ago

    @Penguin & Jon
    Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realise there were two elements involved, that's not been very well explained. It's frustrating that most of the games press is US-based and only reports US issues, leaving the Euro press to make the most of it. I suppose the problem is that most of the publishers and manufacturers have meagre European PR who aren't fully informed.

  • haowan #32 4 years ago

    They took it out because they are scared of their own PS2 console outselling the PS3. So they are forcing gamers to buy PS3 games instead of PS2 games. They've already admitted that was the case in an interview with N'gai Croal. It's not about cost, it's about pushing sales of PS3 games.

    Ah yeah, rotmm got there before me.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 11:56

  • thedaveeyres #33 4 years ago

    Headbog: I'm afraid any argument you now make will carry no weight whatsoever thanks to your use of the term XBOT, which immediately brands you a cretinous turd.

  • Rodney #34 4 years ago

    I think sony dropping B/c does show a lack of respect for customers, paticularly after its earlier comments regarding Microsofts strategy.

    However, for the mass market who do not follow the gaming industry this is not such a massive deal. Most people probably want to the PS3 to play the next Fifa, GTA, Need for Speed et al. People with extensive Ps2 libraries most likely already own a PS2.

    I was quite anti Sony until recently, as I think they have treated many of their loyal customers/fan base like shit (b/c, rumble, Euro price, region coding).However a Ps3 with wireless, Blu-ray, HDD for close to the same price as an Elite does represent great value. Better value than the 360

    I think the lack of games thing is a little overplayed as well. It hasnt got as many AAA games (actually, I dont think it has any) as the 360 but that is to be expected so early in its life cycle.

    Personally, as someone without a PS2 library, next year a PS3 for £300 and a bundled GT5 is seriously tempting. I wouldnt buy one yet because of there are no exclusive games on it I want to play (I own a 360) but as soon as there are, I will be buying one.

    I think PS3 will win in the long run, its brand loyalty, although misplaced, is too strong among the mass market.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 12:01

  • thedaveeyres #35 4 years ago

    I am weeping hot salty tears... don't you just love the internets? :)

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #36 4 years ago

    There's a choice UNTIL CURRENT STOCKS OF THE 60GB RUN OUT. Sony's official position is that BC is dead to them, and that's what people are commenting on, as you well know.

  • Razzajazz #37 4 years ago

    I am eventually going to get a PS3, I just can't really justify the investment now, and I'm pretty unhappy that the BC has gone. I know it's really much ado about nothing, but I would like to have as few boxes under my TV as possible, and to that end would like to have got rid of my PS2 but kept the games.

    TBH, I just can't see the point of buying one now when Sony blatantly haven't even decided on their final SKU's. Whether or not they bring back BC in future, there's still the Dualshock 3 pack-in to come, as well as different HD sizes (160GB?).

    I really think the problem stems from Sony giving each territory the power to dictate their own price drops/bundles etc, and now the whole operation is just melting down into a pretty incoherent mess.

    I will get one eventually, I just don't know when!

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #38 4 years ago

    The 60GB PS3 is currently very attractively priced in comparison to the 40GB CrippleStation, no argument about that. It's also a very decent deal if you give a shit about Blu-Ray, which almost nobody does (and rightly so - ordinary DVDs upscale extremely nicely, and you'd need a microscope to tell the difference 98% of the time). But what the ordinary punter on the street sees is this:

    60GB PS3 with some BC and two good games - £350
    20GB 360 with some BC and two good games - £260

    Since very, very few 360 owners will ever need more than 20GB of HD space, that's a no-brainer for the average consumer - the PS3 is a whopping 35% more expensive. The fact that the 360 has about 10 times as many good platform-exclusive games to play is merely the clincher.

    (The 40GB PS3 with no BC and no games, but still costing £40 more than the 360 Premium with PGR4 and Halo 3, is one of the worst deals in the history of games retailing, which is why a pathetic 1,800 were sold in the entire UK last week.)
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 12:41

  • rotmm #39 4 years ago

    headbog,

    "You have to with the Premium 360 too."

    The difference being that the PS3 NEEDS a HDMI cable to get hi-def output, whereas the 360 already comes with the necessary cables to output in hi-def. A HDMI cable is a luxury, not a necessity as with the PS3.

  • mcwildcard #40 4 years ago

    I paid £380 for my 60GB PS3 + HDMI cable + 3 games + a blu ray film (good old play.com + quidco!).
    I've never used the BC (I've got a PS2 for that funny enough), I've never used the card slot and I was always puzzled why it needed 4 USBs.
    I would of happily gone down to 40GB and dropped the rest of that stuff to save an extra £100!
    Sony ARE listening to the consumer, I'm one of the large target demographic they are aiming to please and that new system represents a great deal if you ask me.
    I'll never understand the fuss about BC, I mean you'd get £40-£50 exchange on your PS2 if you wanted to trade it in towards a PS3, but instead of that, you can keep it and buy the £50 cheaper 40GB PS3. Meaning there's hardly any difference whatsoever, bar an extra plug socket in use.
    Why the fuss?!

  • Runtime #41 4 years ago

    "60GB PS3 with some BC and two good games - £350
    20GB 360 with some BC and two good games - £260 "

    Or

    60GB PS3 with some BC and two good games - £350
    120GB 360 (Elite) with some BC and two good games - £300

  • Gaol #42 4 years ago

    BC was a huge deal to me which is why I got a launch NTSC 20gb (with EE) - the playstation has an amazing back catalogue and i reserve the right to fling in my USA copies of FFVII, Res Evil and what have you without having to bring out a grimy 10 year old machine that makes weird noises when trying to read discs.

    Perhaps for a casual fan its no big deal but Sony should defo keep some model available that has this option - giving people a choice is fine, but removing this entirely would be poor imo.

    On the wifi thing, they go on about the link with PSP - I don't really get this. My model has no wifi and at launch couldn't do remote play etc which frankly didn't bother me much - the whole handheld link to a main console thing is crap - however I can now use remote play as the ps3 can see it through my wifi router, this was patched in during some firmware update - so its clearly something that could be removed and I doubt the majority of consumers would bother as the controllers are all bluetooth.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #43 4 years ago

    "Sony ARE listening to the consumer, I'm one of the large target demographic they are aiming to please and that new system represents a great deal if you ask me. "

    ...except you just told us that you already bought one, before they turned it into a pile of crap. So you're NOT who they're aiming at at all.

    A 9:1 ratio of 60GB models to 40GB ones sold since the new prices came out tells the story. People want features and value, not a low headline price that actually just masks a terrible deal.

  • drxym #44 4 years ago

    Removing wi-fi would have been a mistake. I expect most new broadband customers and many existing ones are using wi-fi. Not adding wi-fi to the 360 Elite was one of the dumbest things Microsoft did.

    The lack of BC sucks, but it's not like people still don't have options. The 60Gb model is still on sale in the EU and the 80Gb model is on sale in the US. Buy it while you can and benefit from the lowered price at the same time.

    Chances are that what is the 40Gb model now will form the basis of the high-end system that replaces the BC models when they go out of stock. I expect that Sony will produce a 120 or 160Gb high end model off the new hardware once the old stock has cleared out.

  • drxym #45 4 years ago

    @rotmm. You can get HD output from PS3 games via component cables though the PS3 doesn't include those either. I think it is swingeing of Sony not to include cables. Sony really need to bundle the cable with the box, at least in their more expensive bundle.

    A comment in general about HDMI. You can get a cable for less than a tenner. Don't spend any more since the signal is identical whether the cable costs a fiver or fifty. I don't think it will be long before Poundland start selling HDMI cables just like they do with SCART & USB cables.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 12:52

  • Penguinzoot #46 4 years ago

    I own a 60GB Software-enabled BC Euro PS3, which I am quite happy with.

    I acknowledge the need to Sony to cut costs to make the entry point much more attractive this Christmas. And I also acknowledge that many potential PS3 purchasers are not at all bothered by lack of BC.

    Losing the card reader and extra USB ports to cut costs I have no problem with. However. I have to say that losing BC is in my opinion a mistake which Sony may come to regret - it could bite them on the arse.

    There are some that maintain that a PS3 with a larger 80 GB disk with software BC will "obviously" make it to the Euro market some time after Christmas. Personally I don't think there is anything "obvious" about it. Sony have gone on record as saying that when stocks of the 60GB model run out in Europe there will only be the BC-less 40GB sku on the market in Europe. Until they officially announce it, there is no other model except the BC-less 40GB model in Europe after the 60GB has gone. And incidentally, it is the 60GB model that is flying off the shelves at Amazon etc since last week, not the BC-less 40GB model.

    I can only assume that Sony have got their focus group/market research right on this issue and that removing BC will not come back to haunt them.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 13:11

  • mcwildcard #47 4 years ago

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell : "...except you just told us that you already bought one, before they turned it into a pile of crap. So you're NOT who they're aiming at at all."
    You don't really understand the concept of demographics, do you?

    Yes, I bought the 60GB machine, but to me the 40GB is much more attractive and I would of bought that instead, had it been available.
    Considering I've used all the stuff they've left in, and none of the stuff they've got rid of, I'd say they've catered for my needs perfectly with the new model, it was just a few months too late for my patience. However I'm sure there are an awful lot of others who see it the same way as me, but haven't invested yet, these are the people who will be buying the cheaper 40GB model.
    I still don't understand why it's a 'pile of crap' just because it's not capable of playing last-gen games.
    As I said, there's really no financial difference in simply playing them on your old PS2.

  • rotmm #48 4 years ago

    drxym,

    That's my point. You must buy a cable to get hi-def output, and it's something that seems even more relevant on the PS3 with hi-def movie capability.

    As you said, it's swingeing of them.

  • RexRunti #49 4 years ago

    I think BC is actually pretty pointless in most consoles. That said it was one of the PS3's two USPs. Where as before you could go into a shop you had a choice of two great games consoles for similar prices one of which would play your old games it would makes sense to go for the one that did.

    Oddly that console is more likely to be the 360 because of this.

    However, while the loss of that USP is a minor flaw, the £300+ price point was catastrophic flaw and needed to be rectified. I may well get a PS3 after x-mas for that price (I need all that money for 360 games), but I'll essentially only get exclusives for it as pretty much all multiplatform games are better on the 360, or identical with the advantage of achievements, XBox Live and gamerscores, hell I'm even considering getting Half Life 2 and Tomb Raider: Anniversery for it despite already owning them on (a kick arse) PC.

  • symbiote #50 4 years ago

    Wake me up when the Xbots have gone. Oh wait, they never do, do they?

    Fuck it..

    /hibernates

  • Dizzy #51 4 years ago

    >Wake me up when the Xbots have gone. Oh wait, they never do, do they?

    I think it has something to do with the 4-1 360 vs PS3 ratio on the planet.

    >It seems B/C only becomes important to XBOTS the moment it becomes a reason to bash the Ps3.

    Most people seem to say that Sony keeps on **** their fans up the ass and they don't seem to care. The "current" PS3 is a far cry from the "original" TEH R3AL next gen system. Electronics usually improve over time... not degrade.

    I smell a troll.
    Edited by 3 at 19/10/07 @ 13:45

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #52 4 years ago

    "Sony have categorically stated that they removed B/C from the £299 model to create a lower headline price."

    They've also categorically stated that they DIDN'T do it for that reason. Zany, eh?

    (See the Kotaku link already posted in this thread.)

    Similarly for the statement that the 40GB will be the only model soon, with no 80GB BC model released next Spring - the absolutely most convincing reason to believe that the 80GB model with BC restored IS coming here next year is the fact that Sony say it isn't. Pretty much everything they've said about the PS3 so far has been a total lie, why expect them to change now?

    You're clearly a fanboy who's unusually slow at pulling the wool from over your eyes. I have a 360, PS3 and Wii, and no axe to grind for any side. Sony's long and continuing run of farcical blundering is simply a matter of empirical fact to any unbiased observer.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 13:48

  • rotmm #53 4 years ago

    headbog,

    "Sony have categorically stated that they removed B/C from the £299 model to create a lower headline price. "

    Sony have catagorically stated that they removed B/C from the £299 model to force gamers to buy more PS3 games.

  • Dizzy #54 4 years ago

    "I dont care what Sony promised - I care about what is actually being shown and the games that are actually available for it. "

    Yea I know.. I was just explaining why many people are angry with all the PS3 "deals". Justified? Maybe.. maybe not.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #55 4 years ago

    It's £90, not £80. And rechargeable batteries and a charger for your 360 pad, should you want such a thing, will set you back about a tenner, if not less. And for that you'll get four batteries, so you can charge one set while using the other ones, instead of having to plug it into your PS3 via a short lead and wait two hours.

    The only axe I have to grind here is with idiots defending Sony's relentless idiotic boobery. And with anyone dumb enough to think that Uncharted: Drake's Fortune is going to be a killer app, ffs.

  • Whizzo #56 4 years ago

    Perhaps when games like MGS4 and GT5 are released it'll be worth purchasing one, buying a console on the promise of future releases isn't just stupid, it's retarded.

  • zedzee #57 4 years ago

    @ Steroyd, dominalien, Moonprince:

    Couldn't agree with you guys more. This statement (and all previous Sony statements about their PS3 decisions) are complete and utter marketing SH*T that (outside of their office doors) makes no sense at all to anyone.

    @ Turambar:

    The problem with current PS3 owners (and I've not bought one because of the launch price and current shambles) is that they WANT backwards compatibility (even if it's done half in software - another broken Sony promise) AND decent games as well. Many feel that they have yet to see decent games (or at least variety there of), that's why they're quite rightly disgruntled.

    On another general note, I'd like to pose one question here to Sony:

    If you have/buy a PS3 that has backwards compatibility now and the hardware fails for some reason (I know they're 1,000 times more reliable than X360 but just indulge me) and the shop has to replace it, will you get the same model back?

    If the backwards compatible ones are gone by Xmas (as Sony wants) that means if it fails around next Xmas (2008), the shop will replace it with one that has no backwards compatibility, right?

    That's not like for like, surely? Doesn't that breach consumer laws or something?!

  • Quak #58 4 years ago

    "In practice, once you get the PS3 home, the ability to play some 1 year old Xbox 360 games at lower frame-rates, with less special effects and with no rumble is more what [consumers] are interested in than their back catalogue of PS2 games."

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #59 4 years ago

    I already listed the price comparison I referred to - £350 for a "good" PS3 and two games versus £260 for a "good" 360 with two games. That's £90. I'm not talking about the shit crippled versions of either machine, because the 40GB PS3 is going to be on sale for six months max. It's nothing but a stalking horse to generate sales of the 60GB one, and then the 80GB one, as the figures are already bearing out.

    As for Uncharted, I claim no "authority" at all, just 20 years in the games business giving me a pretty good idea of what will and won't sell consoles, and I'll eat my fucking hat if Uncharted even makes the All Format Top 10 for one week, far less becomes a killer app. The PS3 has had NOTHING worthwhile and exclusive since launch week. MGS4 and GT5? Who knows when we'll even see those, far less whether anyone will still be interested - when was PSP Gran Turismo supposed to be out again?

  • zedzee #60 4 years ago

    @ Razzajazz, Rev. Stuart Campbell,

    Sorry, guys, did not see your posts before posting my 'agreement' one above. You guys make some great comments, especially about having all those consoles under the TV, in the living/bedroom etc. I also don't want them all sitting there but I DO WANT to play my old PS1 and PS2 games. I don't know what "demographic" Sony asked about taking out BC, but it sure did not include the majority of posters on here that are disgruntled by that.

    And surely having more people complain about it here and elsewhere means that the majority are not happy with their decision to take out BC? They've made those loyal PlayStation fans look like fools, in front of the XBots. That's not on.

    So, if Sony have been listening to their fans and dropping the price, will they now listen again and bring back BC (at least to the high end models)?

    I'd be happy if they release a high end model (say 200GB) and have that and the impending 80GB for Europe (oh, yes, I bet you it will be released) with BC, while the cheaper 40GB without. I can accept that, I really can.

    @ mcwildcard:

    Because the PS3 was promised by Sony as a multimedia machine, with lots of card slots, ports, wi-fi and BC in hardware. Now they've retracted so many things and injured existing loyal fans by pulling the price carpet right from under them, while confusing new consumers about which model they should buy.

    PS2 is NOT dead, but when you release a new console, it would be nice if you could play all your previous catalogue games on it and hell, if they weren't so arrogant, I'm sure they could license Nintendo and Sega catalogues as well and do that in software emu. It's just good to be able to use one machine, rather than the cables, connectors and space accommodation (under the TV) for all consoles, let alone those who might also have a Wii and X360. Will you honestly have all 3/4 under your TV? Does your TV have enough connectors to cater for them all at once?

    Sony think of themselves as a consumer corporation that is now in the games market and they design their consoles to be consumer machines, not just games boxes. With that aesthetic in mind, do they not go a little further and consider how a typical person's front room/bedroom would look like when all the cables, connectors and consoles are fighting for space without BC?

    They do! That's why they touted BC as being important to begin with and that's why it now looks (not just pathetic) but EMBARRASSING to them to take it out.
    I don't know how the Japanese bow to apologise for something when they screw up, but I'd certainly like to see the SCE team do that gesture and post it on the Net!

    I simply refuse to eat what scraps have been thrown to me by Sony...I'd rather starve, because I'm a loyal PS fan and cannot bring myself to buy a X360.

  • zedzee #61 4 years ago

    @ headbog:

    Don't worry, mate, you didn't invent any of those terms you mention at the end of your post and certainly are not the first to use them, so no offence taken from any fanbois here.

    Although I'd probably change the Nintendo one from Nintenards to Nintenerds!

    Perhaps Shiguri Miaymoto of whatever his name is (the guy who churns out Mario sh*te regularly and EDGE mag hails him as a god) should use that last one as a name for a new game...Mind you, I won't let go of the copyright so easily...

    :-)

  • Lov3 #62 4 years ago

    The current 60gb version kind of discouraged me because the emulation only works on 72% of games, and out of those games some just don't work properly (you've got to skip all the cutscenes on some games because they crash the machine, and some games will refuse to save for example, or won't stream content from the disk properly). Strikes me as a waste of money if it doesn't give you a consistant experience, which might be part of the reason they dropped it.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #63 4 years ago

    "Regarding GT5 and MGS4 - really, that just proves you are clueless."

    Really? How much money would you like to bet on their PAL release dates?

  • Lov3 #64 4 years ago

    "Really? How much money would you like to bet on their PAL release dates?"

    MGS - 6-8 months after Japanese release.
    GT - 3-4 months after Japanese release.

    I'd bet £10 on those dates, or longer.

    EDIT: I don't think thats what you were asking actually :p, sorry
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 15:22

  • Penguinzoot #65 4 years ago

    @Headbog
    Anyone accusing me of being a PS3 fanboy probably hasn't read my comments in the Halo 3 thread :-)


    Must admit, I thought I'd inadvertently fallen into some weird mirror-universe Twilight zone when I saw your posts this morning ;-)

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #66 4 years ago

    "You flippantly opined that GT5 and MGs4 may never even be released"

    Sigh. I said "Who knows when WE will see them?" Who did you think I meant by "we"? It's sod-all use having them come out in Japan, since they're 100% certain to be region-locked. Oh, and GT5 Prologue is not GT5, duh. If we see the real thing by this time next year, I'll buy you a banana.

    Incidentally, if anyone's keeping count of the number of different reasons Sony have given for removing backwards compatibility, it's currently four:

    "We removed backwards compatibility to lower the price."
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=85648 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    "We removed backwards compatibility to make people buy PS3 games, NOT to lower the price."
    [link url=http://kotaku.com/ gaming/spin/jack-tretton-says-dropping-bc-wasnt-for-cost-mea sures-312628.php
    ]http://ko taku.com/gaming/spin/jack-trett...[/link]

    "We removed backwards compatibility as a result of consumer feedback."
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=84824 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    "We removed backwards compatibility to spend the money on developing new games."
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=84831 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    Oh, and let's not forget the classic, slightly earlier, "We're not going to remove backwards compatibility."
    [link url=http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=74124 ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...[/link]

    :D

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #67 4 years ago

    "It's easy to be a revisionist when you know you made a complete twat out of yourself. But still, I didnt expect you to admit that."

    Are you completely out of your tiny mind? This ENTIRE THREAD is about people buying the PS3 in BRITAIN - that's why all the prices are in Sterling. You seriously think people here are going to buy a PS3 because there's a game out in Japan that they can't play on the machine they've bought? For fuck's sake, get a grip.

    So, when IS it we're expecting Gran Turismo PSP?

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #68 4 years ago

    What I said was, to quote me precisely:

    "Who knows when we'll even see those"

    Note the use of "WHEN", not "IF". I'm sure they'll come out one day. But to cite them as a factor in buying decisions NOW is comically stupid. They could be 18 months away, and who knows how many superior games might come out before then, rendering their existence moot?

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #69 4 years ago

    "You may well have originally intended to suggest that these titles will be a long way off, - however that's not what was conveyed by what you wrote."

    It is to anyone who speaks English. Your own misinterpretation of a perfectly clear sentence isn't my problem, love.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #70 4 years ago

    "you have turned into a raving lunatic bent on Sony Hate"

    I like this, though. I might use that.

  • Lov3 #71 4 years ago

    @Headbog: "'we' can mean anything from the Global community, to you and I individually. You made no attempt to limit the statement to PAL or even just UK."

    The quote in question is a follow up on this: "Really? How much money would you like to bet on their PAL release dates?"

    This thread makes my head hurt :(.
    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 17:05

  • smelly #72 4 years ago

    Im sorry.. I've been sticking up for sony of late - but this is bullshit.

    All european ps3's have lacked that "graphics synthesiser" - which is why you needed software updates.

    Now are they going to stop software updates on the 60gb version? If so - that'll piss people off

    If not - then there's no reason the 40gb one couldnt do it.

    The only reason as far as i can see is to give you "more stuff" in the 60gb version to justify it's price.

  • smelly #73 4 years ago

    Oh.. and as much as it pains me to admit it.. i actually kinda agree with stuart..

    *hangs head in shame*

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #74 4 years ago

    Listen, you deranged troll:

    1. NOBODY has EVER suggested that MGS4 or GT5 won't come out. Of course they will.

    2. Polyphony insist that PSP GT is still on the way. However, it's a good two years late already, so it's entirely reasonable to note that they aren't necessarily going to deliver GT5 when they claim they are. It's highly likely that the full PS3 game is AT LEAST a year away, probably more.

    3. Compared to MGS2, surprisingly few people gave a toss about MGS3. It sold far fewer copies - barely over HALF as many, in fact - and got poorer scores. It's entirely possible that the decline in interest will continue with MGS4. Lots of people are bored of endless cutscenes and no gameplay these days.

    4. Therefore, hanging your entire hopes for the PS3 on two games that nobody's seen yet (bar one small single-track demo), and which might not be out for 18 months or more, is pretty stupid.

    That's all that's being said here. Try to pay attention long enough to read all the words, you'll find it a lot easier to understand things that way.

  • kangarootoo #75 4 years ago

    @smelly

    "Oh.. and as much as it pains me to admit it.. i actually kinda agree with stuart.."

    You're fired.


    :)

  • zuljin #76 4 years ago

    @smelly
    "All european ps3's have lacked that "graphics synthesiser" - which is why you needed software updates."

    They've lacked the EE, not the graphics synthesizer. 40gig version has neither, so no PS2 compatibility. PS1 is software emulated.

  • smelly #77 4 years ago

    "They've lacked the EE, not the graphics synthesizer. 40gig version has neither, so no PS2 compatibility. PS1 is software emulated. "


    Ah.. okay.. me wrong.. happens occasionally :)

  • smelly #78 4 years ago

    "@headbog

    You are genuinely insane!!!"


    Aww.. give him a break.. he's just defending the thing he's paid a small fortune on.

    .. it's not like he's doing a kryon or anything is it?

  • 72Rimmer #79 4 years ago

    Thanks a lot Sony. Bottom line, ps3 arrives late to the party, promises the world then releases a console with little over its rivals. I want a PS3 but theres nothing worth having on it. Sony are fully aware that PS2 is making money and PS3 is costing money and they want to reverse this but publishers are also aware of this fact and still backing the old machine. Sony are just forcing their hand. I have a large catalogue of old games and one day the ps2 will die so what do I do then?

    Microsoft arent the pushover Sega was with the PS2 v Dreamcast and Sony are just panicking from one bad decision to another. 3 times now ive nearly bought this machine and each time ive just seen them screwing the customer. Im not convinced that this machine is going to ever make good. Substandard ports, removing features instead of adding them and criticising the competion only to make their own cock ups. Right now I think I would just be wasting my money. Yes the 360 is noisy and unreliable but at least the games are there! Having been through 4 ps2s in 6 years Im also a little wary of just how reliable this blu ray player is that they could afford to drop it in at such a low price! Cmon Sony convince me because right now there is nothing coming up to beat the competition

  • smelly #80 4 years ago

    @headbog: Do they teach you english at your school?

  • Scimarad #81 4 years ago

    BC is actually a much bigger deal on the PS3 and 360 if you have moved over to an LCD screen. A PS2 running upscaled through HDMI on the PS3 looks a hell of a lot better than the same game on the same LCD TV running on a PS2 through component.

    I really can't see an upside to removing it. How much does it cost to include those PS2 components?

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #82 4 years ago

    "More fool you for wording it poorly."

    Yes, dear. Which word was it that confused you? Was it when I said "when" and you somehow managed to read "if"? Please, I'm interested - break down my sentence and explain to me the bit that you managed to completely misunderstand. Which were the poor word choices?

    MGS3, of course, had *no hype at all*. And what's coming out tomorrow GT-wise is a *demo of a demo* - the full GT5 is months and months and months away. You think they'd release Prologue and then bring the full thing out 10 weeks later when it was still selling? Name your price - if the full GT5 is out here by 19 October 2008, you win the bet. Put your money where your mouth is or STFU, son.

  • smelly #83 4 years ago

    >smelly: go back to pretending the Wii is not a kids toy

    It may be a toy (like ALL games consoles in fact - the word "games" being a bit of a giveaway there)..

    But at least it has some decent games to play on it...

    EDIT : Notice the word "play" in the 2nd line.. that's what you do with toys.


    Edited by 1 at 19/10/07 @ 19:42

  • smelly #84 4 years ago

    Just realised you're right.. The ps3 isnt a toy.. It cant be.. to be a toy it'd need something to play on it :-)

  • yagisencho #85 4 years ago

    Translation:
    "We'll decide which features are important for our customers, and they can go pound sand if they don't like it."

    I think they should have made both wifi and backwards compatibility optional via plug-in modules. Especially since wifi standards change over time...

    Also, I don't have a PSP, and have no interest in getting one.

  • Grogmonkey #86 4 years ago

    @headbog

    The word 'even' doesn't change the sentence as much as you think it does. All it emphasises is the fact that we (which would, in the context of the discussion, normally be read as 'people in the UK') don't know when we (still 'people in the UK') will see the game (in the UK).

    The only reason it would be read otherwise is if you were EXPECTING to read it that way; ie: you had formed an opinion about what the context of the post was going to be before you read it, and therefore subconsciously 'fudged' the meaning to fit in with your expected view.

    Now, this is a pretty standard reaction that everybody has when engaged in a discussion (especially a heated one), so it's not like you're crazy or anything. What it does mean is that your bias (towards the conversation and the Rev.) is clouding your judgement somewhat. And no matter how much you re-read the sentence it will always appear to support your view, because that is now cemented in your mind, and you will never question your position further.

    I'm afraid, however, that the usual rules of syntax, grammar and semantics are somewhat against you this time.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #87 4 years ago

    Mm. The word "even" doesn't *alter* the meaning of the sentence in any way. It's an emphasiser, not a modifier, merely drawing attention to the unknown PAL release dates of the games in question. Knowing the dates, albeit that they were far off, would be one thing in the context of the argument that those games were factors in PS3 purchasing decisions. But not even having concrete dates at all... see how I used "even" just then? That's how it works.

  • davisorle #88 4 years ago

    where are those sony fucktards that were telling off MS for BC gaming? It was so important to them that they kept on flaming the 360 all while waiting for their next gen PS3... Remember? Isnt it sad?

    I bet they are hiding..

  • spud71 #89 4 years ago

    So the Cell can't handle Polygons or is it Textures or maybe Shaders? These are quite common things that the next gen is! The PS3 should be able to run all Sony Software as standard, that should be a fact!

  • J.C #90 4 years ago

    "[W]e'll be rolling out more and more features that take advantage of the connectivity between the PSP and the PS3, and Wi-Fi is really essential to that experience," he explained.

    What if i dont want a PSP? can i have my BC back please?

  • DjFlex52 #91 4 years ago

    'I am confused. headbog did a 180. That's what I call chuzpa."

    So am I.
    I remember just a week or 2 ago headbog was arguing with Sony fanboys about how great the 360 was.

    /scratches head

  • VMerken #92 4 years ago

    And Quote of the Month goes to:
    " "We've been hearing loud and clear that price is more of a primary concern to consumers," Dille explained. "

    Really? Well I never. I can see why such a bizarre statement took almost a year to figure out.

    ...

    Actually, I can't.

    MGS4 and DS3 next year. That's what I'm shooting for. As for PS2 emulation, why wouldn't the awesome "power of the Cell" be able to fully emulate PS2 in software? Oh yeah, right, they're dropping
    BC software support, so it'll take a while before seeing full PS2 emulation on the system.
    Edited by 1 at 21/10/07 @ 22:26