Prince of Persia Comments by Tom Bramwell

This thread makes me embarrassed to be a gamer once again. I think EG should have 2 sites, one for over 25's and one for under. The under 25's can bitch and moan about review scores and who has the bigger console and the over 25's can discuss their experience with the game, AFTER THEY HAVE PLAYED IT.

@ HolyJebus

+1...my sentiments exactly!

To all those saying "just add difficulty levels", I think that's a little harder than it sounds. 3 difficulty levels means three times the gameplay testing, tuning and tweaking, which is pretty expensive for the developers.

"and the over 25's can discuss their experience with the game, AFTER THEY HAVE PLAYED IT."

It's a bit limiting to just discuss game experience. One can have a pretty decent theoretical discussion over game mechanics, game design, etc. The discussion here is quite reasonable, especially for EG standards. Maybe you need to work on your ignore list?

You would think Les that people could have a reasonable conversation about games before actually playing the game but i'm afraid that just doesn't really happen here. And I disagree that this thread has been reasonable. People who complain that if you can't die then its just like watching a movie or reading a book are just idiots. Games don't all have to follow the same rules. People should be open to as many different styles of playing as possible.

I'm a little disappointed by the direction this game has taken and I think the best thing they could have done is not called this game a Prince of Persia game at all. Created a whole new IP and still made a new POP game along the lines of SOT. Either way, its not the end of the world. It seems quite obvious that this is a game that you will need to experience yourself to see if its your cup of tea. I will definitely be trying myself at some stage and could maybe see myself picking it up on the cheap after xmas.

I don't use the Ignore too often as if I did there would be about 10 people left and I would have no idea what any thread was about as everyone would be ignored. Hence, one site for idiots and one for calm, reasonable people.

"The discussion here is quite reasonable, especially for EG standards"

Yeah.. he should look at "discussions" in a wii game thread...

"Games don't all have to follow the same rules. People should be open to as many different styles of playing as possible."

Fully agree. And now we're having a reasonable discussion/conversation (at least I think so) without me ever having touched the game. It's quite likely I'll get it in the end as this and other reviews have done a pretty good job in selling it to me. Just not now, as I've got way too much other stuff to finish/play first.

As for the ingore-thing. Didn't do it at first either but after having been dragged in some futile fanboy arguments by trolls I finally got it. Trolls are best combated by not feeding them and it saves the precious time of the normal comments section visitors as well.

"One I can rememeber is Army of Two DLC and its "Professional" difficulty level. It was (to me) very hard and on that kinda of edge od being "too much" but it never crossed the line. I like it that way. "

Its supposed to be very hard. Its the hardest diffficulty setting. I agree that proffesional difficulty on AoT DLC being the perfect difficulty. Insane on Gears and Gears 2 is also close to being a perfect challenge without being too hard.

Having played the game for a couple of hours and being a big fan of the previous trilogy (especially SOT) I felt I had to comment on this topic.....

This game is fantastic looking and as as fast and slick as its predecessors but i'll tell you what is lacking here......pressure.

Despite having 3-5 chances of success in previous games there was always sections that you struggled with and were faced with just one more chance....then it was do or die.

Its pressure like this that some gamers thrive on, in COD or GOW games when your under heavy fire and being flanked with only half of your life left, you feel the pressure of needing that head shot, or that well placed grenade to save you......

This game robs you of that feeling entirely. For me the lack of a game over screen doesn't matter.....as people have already said its not a great difference as in many games as you simply go back a short distance similar to when you fail here. The reason its so unsatisfying is that you can fail indefinetly. SOT had it perfect with the dagger system. Why couldn't Elika only save you a finite number of times and keep that sense of pressure?

It is moments when you save yourself through good skill that bring the most satisfaction in games IMO. Finally i'd just like to add that I am going to finish and no doubt enjoy the rest of this game, but it could feel so much more rewarding if had kept with the previous methods of rewinding your mistakes....

"Why couldn't Elika only save you a finite number of times and keep that sense of pressure? "

There is an 100G achievement/Gold trophy for being saved less than a 100 times during a playthrough. Im sure that will give me the feeling of some pressure.

Well, I'm a good way into the game and I'm loving every minute of it. I haven't really noticed any practical difference between being saved by Elika and saving myself using the dagger of time in Sands of Time. Apart from the fact that the dagger is more forgiving than Elika: with the dagger you can rewind your way back up to the ledge or pole you jumped/fell off while Elika brings you back to the last solid ground you could both stand on, this means I am forced further back when I miss a leap and I'm saved by Elika. I genuinely find myself liking the Prince and Elika, their interactions are very well done and it brings back fond memories of Sands of Time.

Also, when I fell in Sands of Time I sometimes swore at myself for, say, being a clumsy dumbass and missing that jump, in the new PoP I find myself apologising to Elika for being a clumsy dumbass and missing that jump so it's made me a politer gamer. ;)

Edit: oh my science but my punctuation is terrible today!

@jonbest
"Its pressure like this that some gamers thrive on, in COD or GOW games when your under heavy fire and being flanked with only half of your life left, you feel the pressure of needing that head shot, or that well placed grenade to save you......"

Kinda an odd example, I think: I found the "pressure" of having to stay in cover for the few seconds until my superhuman bullet magnet "mans the hell up" and magically shakes off those pesky bullet wounds was never all that high, especially as I never had to repeat all that much if I did fail.

It's interesting to note that the "stay down for a few seconds and you'll be fine" health mechanism was pretty controversial as well, I seem to recall it attracting a lot of hate at the start.

@ Sneetch

Agreed my examples could have been chosen better.....however I must add that I am referring to the harder settings where its a bit harder to hide away and heal up everytime. But I feel that my general point is still valid, there should be some consequence for repeated failure, I still feel SOT had the balance right.

@Krelle

IronCladChicken:

> It seems you play games for a different reason than me (and mayhaps Darren).
> Saying that Darren is wrong, like you do, is just ignorant.

I wasn’t saying Darren’s view was wrong - However to discuss his opinion (which he published on a web site) and my differing views, does require for me to state that I disagree and explain where and how.

> I dont want to be challenged really. I want the difficulty to be set exactly so that I never have to think > "Wow, this is easy" or "This is too hard ;cc".
> I dont want to die in RPGs, and i dont want to replay levels in GOW. Im not saying that there shouldnt be > a challenge at all, just that I dont want to notice it.
> (Hard to explain really. Sorry for the messy english.)

Surely, If you don't notice/think about the challenge then You're not being challenged?
I can understand not wanting to be frustrated - But for something to be challenging, there has to be a risk that you will fail and consequences for that failure.


> I play games that are challenging aswell. But id be happier if they were less punishing at times.

> When it comes to puzzle-games. Like IllustLogic or whatever, ofcourse there must be a challenge for it to > acctually be a game, but thats becouse it the main, and only, reason to play the game. Same thing with
> games like GeometryWars. The game IS the challenge here.

> Im still insist that you can "experience" a game, and love it, without ever thinking about diffculty or > the challenge.
> And, no, its not the same as reading books/watching movies, couse lack of challenge does not equal lack of > interactivity.
> Games are not [any other medium] + Challenge on top.

If you are after an experence rather than a game, thats cool - but it sounds to me like you'd prefer for a Sims/Animal Crossing/second life type entertainment rather than a video gaming one?

> To end this silly discussion.
> You say games have worse story etc than movies. This is probably true if you try to do some impossible
> measurement of quality over 2 mediums. But thats also missing the point completly.

This was actually just a response to part of Darren’s argument that he doesn’t want a challenge because he wants to enjoy the storyline of games - My point was that the storylines in games - as a rule - really suck & that for a more fulfilling experience with a storyline then movies and (very much more) books would be the way to go.

I can understand not wanting to play a game that’s consistently frustrates (although as the recent Mega Man release has shown they certainly have their place – myself, I'm a big fan of the GnG games series), but if there is no challenge, if there’s no way to win or lose it doesn’t really sound like much of a game.
I'm not a hardcore gamer, I don't have that much free time, I enjoy playing Endless Ocean as much as GoW, I even think the Wii is a great little console with some great games on it - But a 'game' (a opposed to an open world type title) without consequence seems pointless – a time sink. Hell, even asking a girl out represents a challenge – a chance to win or lose - yes or no - you'll gonna have to deal with being at least the chance of being rejected, and the fallout when you are.
If you try running through the forums of a few gaming sites, checking players responses to the insta-regeneration in Bioshock - which, as someone here has pointed out you means you can complete the game using brute force rather than any skill or thought - Failure can be fun (we’re all going to spend most of our lives failing anyway, so we may as well learn to enjoy it :))

IronClad:
I know 3 people who play games for the same reason as I do. Myself, Darren and PennyArcade-Gabe. Ive had this discussion with my friends aswell, and ive been unable to explain my feelings at those times also.
I do think you are right in everything you say, but still, I feel like you dont understand me really.
I think that, basically, its just 2 very different ways to "view" games as an (art)form, and ive come to realize that most people wont understand me.

Anyway, what made me reply to your post was that you didnt even acknowledge that there is people playing games for another reason than you, and just took for granted that you "understood" and wanted to categorize me and Darren into some kind of..category :)

This thread will be dead soon, but please add me to MSN krelian@bredband.net if you wanna chat. Id probably make more sense in a more direct kind of conversation anyway.


I hate the Sims. There is no goal and no way to win the game.
I loved Animal Crossing for several months. One may argue that it has no goal aswell, but I found my motivation is collecting insects/fishes/shit.
Today I bought Yakuza 3.

EDIT: I may have cracked it (:
I love watching others play games. I rather watch my friend play while sitting next to him/her when it comes to games like MetroidPrime, God of War, ResidentEvil, Silent Hill and so on...hmm weird, ne.

People who have played the game seem to like it, which is a good sign.
Speaking of death...
http://www.eurogamer.net/article_discuss...

6 out of 10 is spot on.

6/10 is wrong.

I've played a lot of games this year and I really enjoyed this one. I liked the 'experience' and I didn't miss it being difficult, I enjoyed the rhythm of the combat, and the fluidity of the platforming... I looks and sounds beautiful and the ending was fantastic.

(in contrast I thought Gears of War 2 was dull and boring (with high res textures tho')... but then what do I know eh?)

I'd give this a solid 8 / 10 but 6 is just plain wrong.

Just had to say I thoroughly enjoyed the game. I'd highly recommend seeking out a second opinion of this game if you haven't already because this review was incredibly harsh

Played the game for the first time yesterday (finding it cheap on eBay made me get it before in went Platinum :) ).

Initial impressions are good. Graphics are stunning, story is not too intrusive. Reminds me of the first PoP SoT.

Really like the not-dying element. Doesn’t take away the challenge and is much more elegant than the fall-to-your-death-resurrect-and-pretend-like-it-never-happe
ned mechanic employed in most games nowadays. And especially in a game like this, where you sometimes have to take chances in order to figure out the correct route, it works wonderfully well.

Having played it some more I still really enjoy it. Don't think the open world design was a good choice as it's too confusing to be able to tell where you're going without using the guide system which in turn removes much of the puzzle aspects of figuring out how to get from A to B. But other than that, no complaints. And the smoothness of navigating the environments is excellent.

This is my GotY '08, and it's up there with my FFVIIs and ICOs of the industry. Shame on you Eurogamer - People are going to miss out on this game because of your trying-to-make-a-point review.

PRINCE OF PERSIA explores what happens when a game does away with most forms of punishment, and does nothing but reward its players from start to finish. The results are astonishing.

strange, i would at least give him 7,5/10

On the overall, is i really enjoying and fun

Only a tenner at play.com today only (april 1st, no, not a joke)

Tom Bramwell:

Lost Via Domus - 7/10
Prince of Persia - 6/10

Find yourself a new job.