Prime Minister gives his views on Resistance controversy

By Ellie Gibson Published 13 June, 2007

Calls for more responsibility.

Boss of the UK Tony Blair has joined the debate over the Church's complaints regarding Resistance: Fall of Man, telling parliament that companies must jolly well take a bit of responsibility for the impact their products have.

During today's Prime Minister's Questions Tony Lloyd, MP for Manchester Central, began by observing, "When large organisations like Sony find their copyright has been breached, they're very quick to use the law." (Presumably he was a big Lik-Sang fan.)

Lloyd continued, "Would the Prime Minister agree with me then that when Sony used images of Manchester Cathedral as part a game which extols gun violence, this was not only in bad taste but also very, very insulting to not simply the Church of England, but people across the land who think it's inappropriate that big corporations behave in this way?"

Blair replied, "I agree with my honourable friend. I think it's important that any of the companies engaged in promoting these types of goods have some sense of responsibility and also some sensitivity to the feelings of others.

"I think this is an immensely difficult area, the relationship between what happens with these games and its impact on young people," the prime minister went on.

"I've no doubt this debate will go on for a significant period of time, but I do agree. I think it is important that people understand there is a wider social responsibility as well as an interior responsibility for profits."

News emerged at the weekend that the Church of England is demanding an apology from Sony for the depiction of Manchester Cathedral in Resistance.

Developer Insomniac has so far declined to comment, while SCEE has confirmed plans to contact Church authorities in a bid to resolve the issue.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (108) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • SeesThroughAll #1 5 years ago

    Church pulls their political influence card...

    And people STILL say only Sony is evil...

  • smoison #2 5 years ago

    damn, thats alot of free PR.

  • windflaw #3 5 years ago

    One thing I certainly don't believe is that there wasn't a single person involved in making the game who said to themselves 'Hang on, maybe this Manchester Cathedral level will cause a bit of a fuss'.

    So whatever their reasons for doing so, it seems that this is a controversy that Insomniac decided to court.

  • lambtron #4 5 years ago

    Everything is contextual.

    In the game mankind is on the verge of extinction at the hands of a mysterious aggressor who exterminates all in its path.

    I think in this context using a gun might be deemed justifiable.

  • Lebowski #5 5 years ago

    Bliar should concentrate on the real wars he started than some war in a PS3 videogame.

    And what's next, the Commons discussing who's the best SFII character?

    "Order, order. The Rt. Hon Gentleman will not shout out about seeing Chun Li's knickers again!"

  • Mordum #6 5 years ago

    I don't get it, why the complaints?... did the game feature Manchester cathedral brandishing a gun and shouting foul language? or was it just in the backdrop of one of the levels?

    Edited by 1 at 13/06/07 @ 17:53

  • DanWhitehead #7 5 years ago

    Everything is contextual.

    Therein lies the problem. Flare-ups like this happen when people who don't know anything about games (Blair, Churchy Types) are handed a pre-packaged scandal by people with an agenda to push (Tabloids) and a dirty little circle of chinese whispers breaks out.

    It's entirely likely that all these people tutting at Sony think that the game takes place in modern day Manchester and involves you shooting ordinary people dead for a laugh. Because that's what da kidz is into, innit?

  • Les #8 5 years ago

    lambtron +1

  • LOLLERS #9 5 years ago

    "In the game mankind is on the verge of extinction at the hands of a mysterious aggressor who exterminates all in its path. "

    Except in multiplayer where you just kill anything for no reason.

  • Nillsens #10 5 years ago

    Five quid to the person who creates a "Extreme Bodily Fluids Projector: Manchester Cathedral Edition" flash game.

  • mysteryfaceuk #11 5 years ago

    But I don't think you play in the cathedral in multiplayer mode, not that I've seen so far anyway.

  • GamesConnoisseur #12 5 years ago

    Involement of politics and religions are a very dangerous brew, just look at Germany where certain games are fully banned from the hands of intended adult game players!

    Whilst I am more confident that we are steady headed enough in UK, what we do need is to prevent hysterics from being egged up and our liberal right to enjoy violence in game as equal to in movies or books being diminshed in any form.

    Sony in trouble again but think will do them much more good and raise the profile of the console and game in question!

  • killyourtv #13 5 years ago

    you can tell tony blair just couldnt give a crap about this stuff

  • Spong #14 5 years ago

    Boo hoo!! So a FPS has a church level in it that isn't generic. Cry me a f***ing river.

  • ZeroAX #15 5 years ago

    ph church should worry about the poor it doesn't feed with it's unlimited suply of money rather than this. man if jesus lived today he would be sooooooo mad

  • SeesThroughAll #16 5 years ago

    ph church should worry about the poor it doesn't feed with it's unlimited suply of money rather than this. man if jesus lived today he would be sooooooo mad

    Kick the merchants off the temple he would.

  • messiahtj #17 5 years ago

    Lol......That Bliar-The-Liar guy is so funny.......go listen the spice girls dude......

  • Katsumoto #18 5 years ago

    "I basically don't give a shit about this story, but why is no-one challenging this constant assertion that RFOM "extols gun violence"?

    Resistance no more extols gun violence than Cooking Mama encourages knife crime..."

    absolutely. That's the bit that annoys me the most - does a game having guns in it now constitute "extolling" gun violence. Does Dark Messiah extol setting people on fire then telekenetically throwing them onto some spikes? I seem to remember that game was set in a fantasy universe as well!

    But wait, it's not set in our "reality". Okay then, how about Civ 4. Does that extol using violent force to solve territorial/resource/human rights disputes? Wait a minute!

  • Der_tolle_Emil #19 5 years ago

    Blair's statements seems very balanced and fair though. It doesn't seem like he is pointing with his finger at Sony and accusing them of driving our youth to kill for fun.

    It is also an entirely different thing if a church is just used as a mere backdrop in a level than the church suddenly being the headquarters of the future Scientology clan that took over the world starting right here in Manchester.

    It's luckily one of the more boring bad news about videogames and will quickly die down. At least I hope it will because such things sometimes seem to last quite a while. I know enthusiasts can get pretty stubborn when it comes to such things; I remember a while ago here the government started to grant subsidies for companies that promote alternative ways to generate energy like wind turbines. Everyone was happy but environmentalists. They said those things kill birds; Seriously. A few weeks later the companies provided studies that cats kill more birds than wind turbines. Was quite ridiculous.

  • dredd97 #20 5 years ago

    Wonga said..

    'I agree with him, Sony should have some sensitivity over this. Obviously when you consider sony's past antics they're not big on religious sensibilities, the only thing that matters to them is the so-called "cult of playstation"'

    somehow I knew you'd blame sony for it...

  • spliffhead #21 5 years ago

    Fucking politicians, get a real bloody job!

  • mysteryfaceuk #22 5 years ago

    Politicians and the Church will always jump on the issue of violent videogames as they know a large number of the population (especially Daily Mail readers) feel strongly about it. For politicians in particular, it's seen as a way of raising their own profile and increasing their chance of election.

  • mysteryfaceuk #23 5 years ago

    I doubt if Sony really minds this now surfacing in the news. It's great publicity and it would be interesting to see whether there's any increase in PS3 sales this week as a result of it. After all, this sort of publicity did a world of good for GTA.

  • peteb #24 5 years ago

    why does everyone conveniently forget that these games are not for kids? its always "damaging our kids this,damaging our kids that..." when most of these games are for 18+. now i know resistance wasn't but the media seems to be on a bit of a crusade here. when an 18 film comes out, no-one worries (at least, not as many as with a mature game) about the effect it'll have on kids, so why is it always mentioned for games? they need to realise that the "games are for kids" belief is the main cause of these problems!

    although im not really talking about the church thing, to that i say "meh", fair game. im a christian too. why can't people lighten the fuck up? im sure god doesnt mind that much.
    Edited by 1 at 13/06/07 @ 18:49

  • rudedudejude #25 5 years ago

    jstar +10!

  • Les #26 5 years ago

    dredd97 +1

  • mysteryfaceuk #27 5 years ago

    In a couple of decades arguments like this won't exist because the number of people playing games will likely be about 50% of the population, especially as gamers sprout kids who get into games as well. I bet politicians don't make stupid comments like this in Japan.

  • Steroyd #28 5 years ago

    According to Granada news Resistance has now sold 2 Million.

    So it's apparently doubled sales in less than a week LOL.

  • rudedudejude #29 5 years ago

    They're going on about Sonic now!

    http://un cyclopedia.org/wiki/UnNews:Chur...

  • Les #30 5 years ago

    @ Adam_T

    I'm with the Church. Sonic's latest games are an afront to everyone and their values... ;-)

  • jimlad #31 5 years ago

    sony should be thanking the church for giving resistance so much publicity

  • Moz #32 5 years ago

    It just pisses me off they always end up focusing in on one game like this.

    As far as I'm concered if this ends up being banded then about 50% of films books and other games should also be band.

    So much media has content that would upset one group of people or another.

    Though I guess games are still fairly new and only had graphics realistic enough the last 5 years.

    Just reminded me of all the comotion there was over Childs play when VHS was still new.

    And 99% of the issues come down to one thing people yelling "Protect the children" and that is easily answered but just not letting kids play these games. It's the parents that should be blamed not the companies that make the games, books or films.

    On an odd note I have christian friends who refuse to read the Phill Pullman, His Dark marterials book because they have an anti-chrstian message. yet those are childrens book and I believe the film based on them later this year is going to be a U rating

  • JYM60 #33 5 years ago

    HAHAHA.....

    That is all.

  • menage #34 5 years ago

    That coming from a man who bombed a country under false pretences:p

  • zuljin #35 5 years ago

    In other news:

    Hans Blix finds evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow.

  • Razz #36 5 years ago

    LOL! He said nothing at all. :D I love politics!

  • JayPee #37 5 years ago

    It's a bit odd.

    About 10 games a month come out in which you repeatedly murder many many "terrorists" or "Nazis" and actual genuine Human Beings.

    Where's the Church banging on about these?

    Also, many people died in Iraq today by the way thanks to government foreign policy.
    Many people died from poverty and starvation due to 3rd world debt.
    Many people died over many things. Shame these things aren't bumped up the agenda more really.
    Edited by 1 at 13/06/07 @ 19:40

  • Arcadiian #38 5 years ago

    Hang on, i've seen loads of churches in games before, none of them caused this much fuss.

    Surely a religious person would complain that any place of worship in a game/movie, whether fictional or not, is wrong ?

    Or is religion a brand now, where only a specific likeness of a building is too far ?

  • Rodriguez #39 5 years ago

    If I recall correctly, Tony Blair went on holiday to America not long ago, where he stayed in Robin 'Bee-gee' Gibb's house. I think it was reported that whilst he was there, Cherie Blair was photographed walking into the house after a shopping trip with a PS3 box under her arm. I therefore wouldn't be surprised that Blair's somewhat measured response to the arsehole who put the question to him may be because he's actually been playing Resistance: Fall of Man?? We can only speculate...
    Here's a possible headline of tomorrow, "Blair massacres hundreds in church!! Blames Sony for making killing fun! Declares war on Japan!"

  • Steroyd #40 5 years ago

    About 10 games a month come out in which you repeatedly murder many many "terrorists" or "Nazis" and actual genuine Human Beings.

    The only difference being they weren't in a Christian church.

    No worries it's okay if the Nazi's get bombed, the terrorists are usually of Muslim origin, but when it comes to a shootout in a church in an alternate timeline of Manchester, that's where the line is crossed.

  • MaxiSleep #41 5 years ago

    I think the CoE is being very very cynical about this. It smacks of media management. Pretend outrage is just a part of modern life it seams

  • aldo_14 #42 5 years ago

    One thing I certainly don't believe is that there wasn't a single person involved in making the game who said to themselves 'Hang on, maybe this Manchester Cathedral level will cause a bit of a fuss'.

    So whatever their reasons for doing so, it seems that this is a controversy that Insomniac decided to court.

    I'd say that's rather a big & unfair assumption to make - churches and places of worship have featured in war imagery for a very long time due to their symbolic value as places of (former) sanctity (not to mention traditional - if not modern - centres of community, and arguably serving as reminders of both birth and death). Heck, Call of Dutys' 2nd & 3rd missions were set in and around the Church of St Mere-Egleise - that's surely not much more different from using Manchester Cathedral (would a WW2 game featuring St Pauls be similarly challenged? I doubt it).

    To me, the whole situation is ludicrous - a church is a public building by definition, and the context is firmly one of battling to save humanity rather than GTA-style random violence. I can't help but wonder (well, not really - I know) why no politician has the guts or backbone to stand up and actually examine the facts rather than regurgitate crap.

    Mind you, I guess it's a lot easier to blame private companies for societal ills like gun crime than to introspect and examine the governments failures on an educational or social level....

  • JediMasterMalik #43 5 years ago

    I blew up a church in Company of Heroes, will they sue Relic and THQ now?

    If not, why not?

  • RobertFoster #44 5 years ago

    "I've no doubt this debate will go on for a significant period of time..." Long after I'm no longer PM, so blah blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah. CAN YOU DIG IT!?

  • Nithron #45 5 years ago

    From: Nithron
    To: Church of England
    WHY ARE YOU SO BLOODY DUMB
    end

  • Stormflood #46 5 years ago

    "a game which extols gun violence"

    Nice one Tony Lloyd. To the ignorant, that phrase implies that Resistance is about glorifying gun violence on our streets - particular the streets of Manchester. Of course such a game would be despicable, but the game does not 'extol gun violence'.

    I'd like Sony to use the word 'aliens' as many times as they possibly can when communicating with the church and MP's. And when weapons are mentioned, use the proper in-game names: hedgehog grenade for example.

    PAH....

  • septimus #47 5 years ago

    Blair you pussy.

    Oh noes!!! The zealots are angry.

  • Les #48 5 years ago

    "To me, the whole situation is ludicrous - a church is a public building by definition, and the context is firmly one of battling to save humanity rather than GTA-style random violence."

    +1

  • TheJanitor #49 5 years ago

    sod off blair. the church obviously only cares about the money they get from this. and no religions person would even care about the background being used in the game, unless they're *censored*

  • Xerx3s #50 5 years ago

    Lol. TB in responsibility irony issue.

  • smelly #51 5 years ago

    TRANSLATION : if you want free advertising, put you fps in a church.

  • Kryon #52 5 years ago

    What next for Sony eh? Will they make light of gas chambers and slavery? How about some Bestiality, Child snuff movies? Or maybe piss in the face of God himself? Who knows...

  • Freek #53 5 years ago

    Blair? Really?

  • Zem63 #54 5 years ago

    Soldiers fighting a war against aggressive invaders=gun violence?
    Should they perhaps use harsh language instead?

  • Monkey-Wizard-Ken #55 5 years ago

    Maybe Tony would prefer to see Afghan’s instead of aliens?
    Seriously, that guy has no right preaching about what’s right or wrong in the world.

  • Sir_TimAlot #56 5 years ago

    "have some sense of responsibility and also some sensitivity to the feelings of others."

    HOLY S**T - sense of responsibilty???????
    It's just a computer game, not an illegal war!
    I really don't like using this word but what a C**T !!!

  • JediMasterMalik #57 5 years ago

    Should they perhaps use harsh language instead?

    That, or flowers, thems Chimaera hateses them flowerz!

  • mysteryfaceuk #58 5 years ago

    I've just reached the Manchester level of Resistance so I'm gonna blow the crap out of it tonight!

  • onyxbox #59 5 years ago

    this might seem like an unqualified and shallow response but...

    I'm sick of all this bullshit... there are things in the world that offend me too, I just try and avoid them and if I can't I just take it on the chin and move on.

  • smelly #60 5 years ago

    @Sir_TimAlot : I didnt think of that.. good point well made that man

  • RedPanda #61 5 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • zuljin #62 5 years ago

    @Zem63
    "Should they perhaps use harsh language instead?"

    Soap: What do you mean armed? Armed with what?
    Eddie: Err, bad breath, colourful language, feather dusters... What do you think they're gonna be armed with? Guns, you t*t!

  • Triggerhappytel #63 5 years ago

    So, the question is will this game be top 10 next week?

    It's almost like free Manhunt-level publicity all over again.

  • smelly #64 5 years ago

    Manhunt 2 has been delayed to allow for a new level to be included set inside a church..

  • SeesThroughAll #65 5 years ago

    Manhunt 2 has been delayed to allow for a new level to be included set inside a church...

    Or even better, in a school...

  • SeesThroughAll #66 5 years ago

    Oh, and gotta love how certain fanboys suddenly became so religious in order to gain the right to show indignation towards Sony.

  • peteb #67 5 years ago

    Manhunt 2 has been delayed to allow for a new level to be included set inside a church...

    Or even better, in a school...

    better again.....a sunday school (bit of both eh?)
    Edited by 1 at 13/06/07 @ 22:53

  • smelly #68 5 years ago

    "Oh, and gotta love how certain fanboys suddenly became so religious in order to gain the right to show indignation towards Sony."


    who's doing that?

    Besides, couldve been worse.. couldve been "another" religion.

  • SeesThroughAll #69 5 years ago

    Wasn't talking just about the comments here, there's guys around saying that the Church is absolutely right about this.

  • Sir_TimAlot #70 5 years ago

    or even a sunday school for disabled children!
    I wanna know what a man of the cloth is doing playing Resistance, bet he can't wait for The Darkness to come out!!!
    Wonder if he is any good at deathmatch, Christians love a good blood bath

    /thinks back to great quote from movie Brain Dead "I kick arse for the lord"



  • Sir_TimAlot #71 5 years ago

    this farce can only lead to.....

    "Gun manufacturer Heckler and Koch complain to game developers that their firarms are often depicted in games are are being used in simulated violence"

  • smelly #72 5 years ago

    I thought christianity was all about loving your neighbour and forgiving and forgetting anyhows?

    So therefor the church isnt practicing what it preaches :-)

  • Azazel #73 5 years ago

    Wow, what a completely generic response from a politician giving the impression he has never seen the fucking thing.

    SHOCK SHOCK HORROR HORROR

  • Monkey-Wizard-Ken #74 5 years ago

    God damn it! - I like games with guns!
    This isn't really a joke. In the late 90's some software developers started removing gun's from some titles in response to this type of bullshit.

  • SeesThroughAll #75 5 years ago

    Yeah, I remember the Night Trap debate.

    I remember Nintendo playing "holier than thou" towards SEGA back then, filthy hypocrites.

  • Lebowski #76 5 years ago

    "Tough on shoddy rushed FPSs, tough on the causes of shoddy rushed FPSs."

  • Bezzy #77 5 years ago

    When Godless aliens invade, I guess the C of E will have to look elsewhere for help defending their places of worship, eh?

    Or they can just claim victory by labelling it "the rapture".

  • MARKIV #78 5 years ago

    Excuse me, but did I not just blow up Westminster Abbey, Buckingham Palace and the Houses of Parliment in C&C3 the other day.

    I guess because it's not a Sony exculsive it's worth the attention..

  • Daikon #79 5 years ago

    To me, the whole situation is ludicrous - a church is a public building by definition

    Actually you're wrong here. Everyone is welcome in Manchester Cathedral but that doesn't make it a public place.
    Just like the church Hard Rock Cafes also love all and serve all but that does not make them public buildings, does it?

    The whole issue is not so much that a violent game contains a scene which takes place in a Cathedral. OK, well that is part of it.
    What this really is about is that Sony didn't get ask Manchester Cathedral for a property release - which is needed if one wants to recreate an image of a building one does not own - be it as a photograph or a three-dimensional representation of a building in a video game.

    Of course there is no way Manchester Cathedral is going to sign a property release either now.

    Sony is breaking the law here and they can be sued if they decide to go ahead and publish this game. They will lose big time in court.
    The best course of action for them would be to adjust the 3D model so that it looks a lot like Manchester Cathedral but is a bit different.
    There, all happy.

  • cobracotton #80 5 years ago

    arghhhhhhh!!!!! my head is going to pop!!! I'd like to make some spuriously remarks about something I have never seen, know nothing about, but believe to be correct...

    Can I be prime minister now?




  • Avaloner #81 5 years ago

    The Church of England cannot understand there is a difference between fiction and reality?

    Not too surprising considering that they are the same people who believe there is some invisible guy up in the sky who is constantly spying on us and decides who will get the goodies and who ends up toast.

    @ Daikon 'you are clearly blissfully unaware that the game has already been published quite some time ago. Apparently the Bishop is quite crass at videogames and only managed to get to the church part now.'
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/07 @ 07:46

  • Brogan #82 5 years ago

    Not played the game so need to ask. What roles in the deeper underlying meaning of the game does the catheral play?

  • Empedocles #83 5 years ago

    Daikon is actually not correct, Manchester Cathedral has no copyright left on it and it's imagery is up for grabs for any who care to use it.

  • node #84 5 years ago

    Okay, what the hell? It's a LOCATION. Does the Mayor of Paris bitch every time a movie shows the Eifel Tower being blown up? What an utterly ridiculous over-reaction. Plus it's a game about fighting mutants or whatever they are - quite how that encourages gun crime is utterly beyond me.

    Honestly, it's one step forwards and two steps backwards every time we seem to be making progress with a positive public perception of games.

  • Daikon #85 5 years ago

    @node

    Apparently it's OK to blow up the Eiffel Tower during the day.
    However it is not OK to do so in the evening when it is lit up as a property release is needed then.
    And no, I'm not making this stuff up.

  • aldo_14 #86 5 years ago

    Actually you're wrong here. Everyone is welcome in Manchester Cathedral but that doesn't make it a public place.
    Just like the church Hard Rock Cafes also love all and serve all but that does not make them public buildings, does it?

    The whole issue is not so much that a violent game contains a scene which takes place in a Cathedral. OK, well that is part of it.
    What this really is about is that Sony didn't get ask Manchester Cathedral for a property release - which is needed if one wants to recreate an image of a building one does not own - be it as a photograph or a three-dimensional representation of a building in a video game.

    Of course there is no way Manchester Cathedral is going to sign a property release either now.

    Sony is breaking the law here and they can be sued if they decide to go ahead and publish this game. They will lose big time in court.
    The best course of action for them would be to adjust the 3D model so that it looks a lot like Manchester Cathedral but is a bit different.
    There, all happy.

    Well, you don't need permission for an 'artistic interpretation'; copyright law would only apply to video or images, and in turn only to objects not on permanent public display. The exterior of the building is not copyrighted (it could be trademarked, but surely that'd have been mentioned by now), and reportedly the 1988 copyright act removes copyright on the internal design ('2D to 3D copying') once the original designer has been dead for 70 years (Although parts of the Cathedral date from the 2nd World War, it was originally built in the 14th century). Additionally, from what I understand of copyright law (admittedly not much), you can't make distinctions of photo rights between the interior and exterior of a publicly accessible building.

    (section 120(a) of the Copyright Act;
    "“The copyright in an architectural work . . . does not include the right to prevent the making, distributing, or public display of . . . pictorial representations of the work, if the building in which the work is embodied is located in or ordinarily visible from a public place.”")

    (See also; [link url=http://impact.freethcartwright.com/2007/06/church _of_engla.html)
    ]http://im pact.freethcartwright.com/2007/...[/link]

    On the subject of the Hard Rock Cafe - I've not been in one for a few years, but AFAIK you wouldn't be thrown out for taking pictures. What would be blocked games-wise, I believe, would be if you reproduced it in a game and used trademarked images, such as wallpaper, logos, or whatever.

    IMO the 'gun crime' angle is a stunt used by the Church to divert attention from it's shameless desire to money grab - I find it very interesting that, after months upon months of screenshots and ads, they only started complaining once it had sold enough units to be worthy of suing for money. In any case, I think it's important to highlight how bollocks that little excuse is, so at least we can be clear what the church really seeks in this story - cold, hard cash.
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/07 @ 09:11

  • Halo.Jones #87 5 years ago

    I had to laugh when the churh pleaded with the people of Japan to force Sony to remove the game from the shelves.

    The japanese are more fucked in the head than we are!

  • jonsaan #88 5 years ago

    Hmmm, given the history of the COE, it's a bit rich to bang on about violence etc isn;t it?

  • Hypercube #89 5 years ago

    Moral/ethical comparisons aside, who actually owns the rights to the likeness of the cathedral itself? Is there a 'copyright' issue here, or does it come down entirely to a sense of outrage from the CoE on one side, and the corporate certainty of Sony on the other?

    It's not as if the original designers of the cathedral are still alive, I would think the depictions of it would be in the public domain, but if it's privately owned property perhaps they have a valid complaint there. I can't understand why they didn't just build a 'fictional' cathedral or just have a disclaimer at the end of the game similar to movies, like "any resemblance is purely coincidental".

    While I think that the CoE is over-reacting in a typically outraged fashion, they should have the right to have their case heard, even if it is a sensationalist one that doesn't seem to be doing any good. Maybe they can perhaps accept that the game doesn't encourage actual shooting and Sony can apologise and perhaps donate to some fund so they can get some 'cuddly' pictures in the media. Then everyone is 'happy'.

  • WriterUK #90 5 years ago

    I am so TOTALLY going to church more often because of this.

    In an alternate 1950s Britain inhabited by aliens, of course.

  • AcidSnake #91 5 years ago

    @aldo_14:
    Nice info's...Very helpful...

    @Daikon:
    It still hasn't been proved that Sony did not have the rights to use the church...
    So they're not in the wrong as of now...

    @hypercube:
    Apologise fine...
    Money? No way...

    In this whole thing I can't see the church wanting anything other than money...
    Sony gets a whole lot of pubblicity...
    But does publicity work for the church?
    Does an average person see the cathedral being mentioned on the news and say to himself:
    "Christian! That's it! That's what's missing in my life!"

    What can be considered a trademark about a church?
    The cross?
    Cue cheeky developers turning the cross upside down to avoid trademark issues...

  • Les #92 5 years ago

    ""Christian! That's it! That's what's missing in my life!" "

    Well, I don't know Christian. But if he's a nice person, who knows... ;)

  • corposant #93 5 years ago

    The Government and the Church seem worringly opposed to works of fiction, which I find quite odd - as must anyone who's heard of Government dossiers and read the Bible.

  • BettySwallocks #94 5 years ago

    Is it responsible allowing America not to sign up to agreements cutting greenhouse gasses? Is it responsible allowing thousands of third world inhabitants die STILL due to lack of government action? Is it responsible invading 2 countries, causing thousands of deaths? is it responsible allowing the health and education systems to fall into disrepair? The list could go on...

    Is it responsible to lecture on responsibility when you have no concept of it yourself?

    JSTFUAPG

  • Eighthours #95 5 years ago

    Sony promised that they were going to contact the Church on Monday, yet we haven't heard anything. Did it happen?

  • hula hoops #96 5 years ago

    "Christian! That's it! That's what's missing in my life!"

    Well, I don't know Christian. But if he's a nice person, who knows... ;)

    O Christian, where are thou?
    Thou are the piece missing in my life.
    Without thou, I am incomplete.

  • AbyssUK #97 5 years ago

    I wonder if the betas of GTA IV had a church in it... well anyway I bet it doesn't now. If anybody of the people at Take Two who was recently made redundant had a screenshot.. boy would you be rich.

    AbyssUK

  • AcidSnake #98 5 years ago

    Sony promised that they were going to contact the Church on Monday, yet we haven't heard anything. Did it happen?

    Ring.....ring...ring...

    CoM: Hello? Cathedral of Manchester here...
    S: Yeah hi, this is Sony, about that whole giving you money thing?
    Com: We're listening...
    S: Well, we're interested in giving you a contract, how's about you make some new IP for us? You seem to have a knack for making up fantastical people and settings...

  • aldo_14 #99 5 years ago

    I wonder if the betas of GTA IV had a church in it... well anyway I bet it doesn't now. If anybody of the people at Take Two who was recently made redundant had a screenshot.. boy would you be rich.

    Nah, GTA(s) not set in real life NY anyways. Albeit the trailer does have, I believe, a quick shot of a church / cathedral whose (real life) name eludes me.

  • Tim #100 5 years ago

    "In the game mankind is on the verge of extinction at the hands of a mysterious aggressor who exterminates all in its path."

    By flooding the Earth?

  • Overlush #101 5 years ago

    LOL. Because of all this some of my 360 mates are asking me if RFOM is coming to the 360!

    God bless free publicity :)

  • Lukus #102 5 years ago

    In Saints Row your gang meeting place is a Church.

  • miiiguel #103 5 years ago

    case study how a lame game get some publicity...

    Blow a Church! Iluminism is dead, welcome the dark ages, once again.

  • TheUnionFrag #104 5 years ago

    I might just pick up a PS3 and Resistance so I can blow the hell out of the Cathedral.

    But what right does the PM have to comment on anything now? Can anyone say hypocrite?

  • SharkVLion #105 5 years ago

    Damn I REALLY want this game now; as probably do most of yer people who enjoy looking round churches; PLUS, they get to kill nasty alien scum into the bargain. 2 for 1, Awesome!

  • Euroseptic #106 5 years ago

    Hmm more responsibility? I think more sensitivity is what people are asking for. I think it all comes down to having boundaries. The argument is not just that the outside of the church is portrayed accurately ( i don't see that as a problem) it's the fact that the lay out inside is accurate. I'm not particulary religious but i accept and respect the fact that other people are. Insomniac chose to recreate the exact interior of the church which i think is one step too far. Ok the game is not as photo realistic as the media is so fond of argueing but there is a very close resemblence. Yes the game is confined to the living room but for those people who whorship at the church the idea of virtual violence acted out within in it is offensive. How many people would seriously consider play laser gun in a church and not think that was not out of taste?
    What i can't understand is why it's taken this long for the church to have found out about the game. It was a key launch title in Japan and the US last November and we knew from various reviews that it was fairly geographically accurate. So it's interesting to ask why now and who told them?
    Ok, GTA IV is causing a stir because it so closely resembles New York but i bet the real reason is that the tourist board there don't want people to think it's such a violent place. They wish. I predict there's going to be even more outcry when Manhunter 2 comes out, more so on the Wii because you have to act out some of the actions instead of just pressing some buttons. Parent's and the Daily Mail are just going to love that lol
    Edited by 1 at 14/06/07 @ 16:27

  • homerramone #107 5 years ago

    man if jesus lived today he would be sooooooo mad
    He would also be in jail by next week, and held indefinatley - under the new terrorist laws.

  • GitSomE_UK #108 5 years ago

    Blair this belongs to you

    /shows finger

    Your spin doctor ways bore me.