Penny Arcade dev explains PSN delay

By Robert Purchese Published 29 July, 2008

Hothead not playing favourites.

Developer Hothead Games has dismissed suggestions it's favouring Xbox 360 and PC, following the recent and long-awaited confirmation of Penny Arcade Adventures for PS3.

"Everyone seemed to come up with their own rumours. They thought there was exclusivity or that Penny Arcade doesn't like the PlayStation 3 but that wasn't it at all," Vlad Ceraldi, Hothead boss, told Kotaku.

Top priority, explained Ceraldi, is getting the game finished as soon as possible - which is why he stuck with PC, Xbox 360 and Linux to begin with.

Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness is due out on PS3 this autumn, following a rather poor reception on PC and Xbox 360 in May.

There are four episodes planned for the deranged 1920s horror-cum-comic adventure, according to Ceraldi. And when those are finished, the Penny Arcade creators will explore other settings and storylines.

Incidentally, Hothead would love to bring the RPG adventure to Wii, only the game is too big for a console without a hard drive. Oops.

"It's purely an issue of size limit. Our game is just too big. If they increase that limit or add a hard drive, anything like that we would revisit [Wii Ware]," said Ceraldi.

Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness costs 1600 Microsoft Points (GBP 13.60 / EUR 19.20) on Xbox Live Arcade.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (63) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • DFawkes #1 4 years ago

    Is it just me, or did he not actually give a real reason?

  • Dizzy #2 4 years ago

    Yes.. PS3 is a pain in the *** to develop for was the reason (but smartly camouflaged ;)

  • Dizzy #3 4 years ago

    Maybe run your own gaming site Arbiter.

  • PearOfAnguish #4 4 years ago

    Is it just me, or did he not actually give a real reason?

    "Top priority, explained Ceraldi, is getting the game finished as soon as possible - which is why he stuck with PC, Xbox 360 and Linux to begin with."

    There you go. He's saying the PS3 is a pain in the ass to program.

  • DFawkes #5 4 years ago

    I do enjoy playing my PS3, but Sony really did a number on devs. by making it so hard to develop for. The 360 might be pretty much a PC in console clothing, but developers can develop perfectly well on PCs - they have been for quite a while now! I've never read any article saying the 360 is hard to develop for.

    I appreciate the PS3 CELL processor might be fantastic at maths, but unless we get games designed for it, perhaps using ray tracing to take load off the GPU, it's just making it hard for devs.

  • ghearoid #6 4 years ago

    Um, if the Penny Arcade games haven't been well received, what's all the fuss about then? It's like Ubisoft having to defend why they haven't done a Dogz game for the PS3 ;o)

  • miiiguel #7 4 years ago

    ^ they weren't "well received" but it seems they made an interresting amount of money in sales.

  • mcbi4kh2 #8 4 years ago

    There you go. He's saying the PS3 is a pain in the ass to program.

    People said that bout the ps2 aswell. Didn't stop them shifting over a billion units of software.

  • Doctor_What #9 4 years ago

    The devs I've worked for and spoken to mostly say a similar thing: the PS3 is a pain in the butt to work on, but whenever a new way of using the cells falls into place their code becomes much smoother. That suggests that the problem isn't so much the machine as the lack of coding support and analysis tools coming out of Sony. Potentiallly, in a year or two we may see some incredible things on the PS3, but at the moment it's still a hard slog to work with.

    Regarding the Penny Arcade game... Meh. Who cares whether it gets to PSN or not?

    And quick: Nintendo! A game needs a new peripheral to work! Make over-priced hard-drives and sell a billion of them! I'm waiting for them to release the presentation case so we can show off the machine we've bought in monthly installments.

  • Dizzy #10 4 years ago

    "People said that bout the ps2 aswell. Didn't stop them shifting over a billion units of software. "

    Sadly a monopoly does that. Plenty of devs would have given their right arm to make games for another console instead.

    "in a year or two we may see some incredible things on the PS3, but at the moment it's still a hard slog to work with. "

    You know, as a software guy, that is the definition of crap hardware. I would like to see the face of my customers when I tell them... no worries people, we will be able to write good software on that hardware you just bought in about 2-3 years. Seriously.

    I have said so many times before. In the 80s we thought it was cool to get under the hood and play with the hardware. Nowadays we just wanne focus on the software and write interesting high level code. The whole PS3 concept is (badly) thought up by hardware engineers instead of software people (like MS). Sadly the 360 has (had) the opposite problem :)
    Edited by 2 at 29/07/08 @ 13:19

  • mcbi4kh2 #11 4 years ago

    @Dizzy

    Microsoft would know nothing of a monopoly eh?

    that is the definition of crap hardware
    Might I correct you, the definition of crap hardware is having 1 in 3 units fail.

  • dsmx #12 4 years ago

    I thought they'd already given the reason for the ps3 delay, I seem to remember them saying it was because the engine they used to make the game didn't support the ps3 at that time and the moment it did they would release it for the ps3.

  • Dizzy #13 4 years ago

    >Microsoft would know nothing of a monopoly eh?

    Yes they do... nothing to do with argument though.

    >Might I correct you, the definition of crap hardware is having 1 in 3 units fail.

    Yes also a definition.. but another one (as I mentioned in my post).

  • aniki Verified Web Developer, YoYo Games Ltd #14 4 years ago

    Precipice of Darkness is due out on PS3 this autumn, following a rather poor reception on PC and Xbox 360 in May.

    It would be accurate to describe it as a mixed reception, but with a Metacritic score of over 75 on both formats calling it "poor" is stretching the truth a little.

  • Moonprince #15 4 years ago

    argh dizzy, you are so so dull. It really has come time to ignore you!

  • Dizzy #16 4 years ago

    "Honestly, you sound like a lazy coder who simply doesn't have the skills or at least the temprament to work outside the familiar wintel framework. "

    ROFL ROFL

    Dude.. I programmed on everything. From Z80 in ASM, 68xx and Intels in C/C++, Mobile chips to the new CPU/GPUs in f*cking script languages.

    You are a funny man...

    An experienced man can recognize badly designed hardware. And many devs agree with me there ;) (apparently the Penny Arcade ones.. hence my original post)

    "Coding is all about problem solving"

    Nope.. coding games is about creativity and doing new stuff with AI and gameplay. Low level crap library coding is from the 80s or for SDK developers.
    Edited by 4 at 29/07/08 @ 14:02

  • mcbi4kh2 #17 4 years ago

    @Dizzy

    Considering the Z80 was released in the 1976 I can assume you are at least mid 30's. Probably over 40.
    Aren't you a bit old ot be arguing with people over consoles and using such mature langauge as 'Dude'?

  • Beano #18 4 years ago

    "Developer Hothead Games has dismissed suggestions it's favouring Xbox 360 and PC..."

    ..and then..

    "Top priority, explained Ceraldi, is getting the game finished as soon as possible - which is why he stuck with PC, Xbox 360 and Linux to begin with."

    So basicly they ARE favouring Xbox 360 and PC (no matter what the reason was).

  • Dizzy #19 4 years ago

    @mcbi4kh2 Oohh... nice one! What are you going to criticize next? My spelling?

    I would say you are too young to talk about anything technical. Come back in 20 years. BTW have you checked who the people are who design your games? Most of them are all 80s coders ;)

    Anyway.. I am outa here... this keeps dragging on.
    Edited by 3 at 29/07/08 @ 14:07

  • mcbi4kh2 #20 4 years ago

    What are you going to criticize next? My spelling?
    Why not, its criticise. (I dont like the yankee version).

    In 20 years I will be nearly 39 and thus have moved on from such trivial arguments.
    Adding a 'know-it-all' wink at the end of each comment just adds emphasis to your immaturity.

    Have you seen the dev diaries for Uncharted? Still one of the best console games there is and not one developer looks over 35.

    These terrific 80's coders probably ported the 'Orange Box' to the PS3.
    The only person I have heard complain about PS3 is the guy at Valve, he was an old man like you. If you cant keep up with changes, move on.

  • mikeck #21 4 years ago

    seriously boring fucking argument now

  • PearOfAnguish #22 4 years ago

    "People said that bout the ps2 aswell. Didn't stop them shifting over a billion units of software. "

    That's nice. What's it got to do with this?

  • mcbi4kh2 #23 4 years ago

    @PearOfAnguish

    Wow, do I really have to spell things out to people?

    PS2 was being criticised as being difficult at first, then dev's got used to it.

    Now the PS3 is being criticised as being difficult, dev's will get used to it again.

  • mcbi4kh2 #24 4 years ago

    @mikeck

    tis a shame your being forced to read all the comments and post a reply then isnt it?

  • mikeck #25 4 years ago

    @@mcbi4kh2

    Bored of having a go at Dizzy are we, moving on to someone new?

    Yes I don't have to read them all, but I'll read most comments about a post that initially interests me because some of the posters here actually have something useful to say (obviously you're not one of them). It's when it steers away into a argument that gets boring - sorry for mentioning it though, I'll let you carry on with your diatribe against Dizzy, that's much more important right?

  • mcbi4kh2 #26 4 years ago

    Im not sure, I have no idea what diatribe means?
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/08 @ 14:39

  • PearOfAnguish #27 4 years ago

    "Wow, do I really have to spell things out to people?

    PS2 was being criticised as being difficult at first, then dev's got used to it.

    Now the PS3 is being criticised as being difficult, dev's will get used to it again."

    Yes I heard you the first time, but I never said anything about the PS2 or sales figures, I was responding to DFawkes. Don't care whether or not developers are going to get used to it.
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/08 @ 14:43

  • mcbi4kh2 #28 4 years ago

    I was responding to DFawkes.

    Quoting me but responding to someone else? Sorry, I should have got that.

  • PearOfAnguish #29 4 years ago

    I think you're getting confused, dear. It was you who responded to a post I made in response to someone else, and with a completely irrelevant point, too.

    Here, I'll make it easy for you:

    DFawkes: Is it just me, or did he not actually give a real reason?

    Me: "Top priority, explained Ceraldi, is getting the game finished as soon as possible - which is why he stuck with PC, Xbox 360 and Linux to begin with."
    There you go. He's saying the PS3 is a pain in the ass to program.

    Your response: "There you go. He's saying the PS3 is a pain in the ass to program."
    People said that bout the ps2 aswell. Didn't stop them shifting over a billion units of software.


    A fascinating fact, I'm sure, but nothing to do with the Penny Arcade game being delayed.

  • mcbi4kh2 #30 4 years ago

    I think Im on a slow day I still dont understand.

    First thing I see from you is this:

    "People said that bout the ps2 aswell. Didn't stop them shifting over a billion units of software. "
    That's nice. What's it got to do with this?

    Then I respond to it.

    The you say "I was responding to DFawkes

    As I said, my fault.
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/08 @ 15:01

  • bitesize #31 4 years ago


    heh, you can always tell those who actually work in games development from those who read about it on wikipedia in these kinda discussions...

  • Salvia #32 4 years ago

    Jeez is Dizzy still on here slagging off Sony and the PS3??? He was the first person on my ignore list years ago with his bitter, opinionated rantings.Let it go man, get on with your life.

    Didn't the devs originally say the reason it wasn't on PS3 was due to the Torque engine they used not being available on PS3?

  • monkie_king #33 4 years ago

    Plus the PS3 has kind of a weak GPU, hence the general lack of antialiasing.

  • oreillymj #34 4 years ago

    The PS3 may or may not be a bitch to develop for, I'm not in a position to say. But I do know that multicore programming is a pretty new paradigm for most PC developers in general, not just game developers. And more cores, tends to make synchronisation of work more difficult. So even though in theory 6 cores should give you more power then 3 cores, itactually makes life much harder.

    Also the fact the X360 devs have access to one of the most feature packed & mature IDE's also gives them an advantage.

    Of course they can't use vTune which has some very nifty tools for analysing and arranging workload across cores.

  • Svecke #35 4 years ago

    "...following a rather poor reception on PC and Xbox 360 in May."

    Did I miss something? I thought it did good? Or are Eurogamer just talking about their own review as if it was the entire world? :p

  • oreillymj #36 4 years ago

    @monkie_king - totally agree.

    Sony deserve a sharp kick in the nuts for not adding HW based AA to their console. There was huge debate about the lack of it on PS2 and they still haven't got the message.

    Although it probably stems from the fact that the GFX side of the PS3 was a bit of a last minute cludge.

  • mikeck #37 4 years ago

    I know fuck all tech wise, so it's quite fun to read through both Arbiter's and farticus' comments and try and guess who actually knows what they're talking about. Or is it that they both know, but they disagree on specifics? Hmmm, the intrigue.

  • septimus #38 4 years ago

    Got it for OSX. Still haven't played it much. I like Penny Arcade, but they have given a new definition to long-winded with this game.

    Edit - Good post Arbiter
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/08 @ 17:27

  • Dizzy #39 4 years ago

    Farticusmaximus is 100% right about the Amiga. That is actually the reason why it was the "better" machine. And no, let's not get into that. I had an Atari and an Amiga BTW ;)
    Edited by 1 at 29/07/08 @ 18:47

  • AOFanboi #40 4 years ago

    <em>Sadly a monopoly does that. Plenty of devs would have given their right arm to make games for another console instead.</em>

    You speak as if Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo 64 never happened.

  • belziah #41 4 years ago

    @Farticus

    So just to be clear about this, you've never actually developed a game, despite running around a gaming site claiming to be a 'developer'.

    Pretty much like working for Burger King and claiming to be a Chef.


  • Dizzy #42 4 years ago

    "You speak as if Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo 64 never happened. "

    Hehe.. sadly only a few devs got the right to develop on those consoles.

    "Getting back to the point though, a big part if the skill of a great coder is to pull the absolute best out of a piece of hardware"

    You are in the wrong business. I would look for a job in embedded stuff, compiler development, middle ware libraries or maybe join the Linux kernel people. Great coders can do that... they just do not want to spend their time on small hairsplitting stuff any more. I prefer to spend my time on actual interesting stuff now and not on forcing my VGA card into some weird undocumented graphics mode so I could run in a higher resolution. Or write my own version of Bresenham or play around with the refresh rate of the borders in a Speccy game so that we could expand the size of the screen (some people will probably know what I am talking about sadly :) and those who don't. People do not do that any more in the games business unless they have to.

    Writing a clever procedural AI routine like in Left4Dead or a procedural creature system like Spore is a lot more valuable in todays games than that 2% extra polygons. Hence designing hardware that make middleware unavailable or a problem is a mistake imho. Also a lot of stuff cannot be hand tweaked any more... it would just take way too much time. We are not talking about 32K games here.

    Are you actually still writing software?

    We all did the same as you on the old machines (probably because we had no other option)... but I have better things to do now. Things at a much higher level. If my console SDK can't deliver that, I won't write code for them.

    I just find it very strange that Sony could actually build a very good machine with the PS1. Coder friendly, great SDK and some slick hardware (versus the nasty Saturn). Who decided to change that?
    Edited by 8 at 30/07/08 @ 00:46

  • belziah #43 4 years ago

    Will Krazy Ken please stand up.

  • mcbi4kh2 #44 4 years ago

    I know what Sony have done wrong, they didn't consult with Eurogamer forums on what should and shouldn't be included in their latest console offering.

    Seriously, you guys remind me of people in pubs who think they are the worlds best football manager.

  • Dizzy #45 4 years ago

    "Seriously, you guys remind me of people in pubs who think they are the worlds best football manager. "

    The only difference being that some of us here are football managers.

    "I know what Sony have done wrong, they didn't consult with Eurogamer forums on what should and shouldn't be included in their latest console offering. "

    Kinda strange that MS actually asked us the developers what they wanted in their next console. So yeah, maybe Sony should ask next time (and I am sure they will.. I think the next PSx will be a lot more dev friendly).
    Edited by 1 at 30/07/08 @ 08:47

  • mcbi4kh2 #46 4 years ago

    Glad to see you are back Dizzy, I thought I had silenced you with my comments on the previous page.

    Kinda strange that MS actually asked us the developers what they wanted in their next console.
    Perhaps they should have spent more time asking hardware guys and they might not of released the most unreliable console ever made.

    I think the next PSx will be a lot more dev friendly
    Won't you be drawing your pension when that comes out?

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #47 4 years ago

    I completely agree with Farty & Dizzy on the development issue although I think the debate was taken on a tangent somewhat.

    To claim that we're not good programmers because we would rather work on easier to use systems if fucking bollocks.

    All that happens is these 'problem solving skills', that I'm sure is what made us programmers in the first place, shift from figuring out low level problems of performance to high level problems such as the examples farty gave. I know which ones I'd rather work on.

    Don't get me wrong, there is nothing more satisfying that solving some really tricky low level technical issue, but the point is you don't want to have to be doing it just because the hardware and API has made it difficult for you.

    Dizzy's point was that the PS2 for a long time was the only system to develop for, so programmers had no choice but to get used to it. If they had an option to use something just as powerful but easier to work with they would have. Does that mean they should 'hang up their gloves'?

    Edited by 1 at 30/07/08 @ 09:49

  • mcbi4kh2 #48 4 years ago

    Dizzy's point was that the PS2 for a long time was the only system to develop for

    I know exactly what you mean, the N64, Dreamcast and the Xbox never existed eh?

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #49 4 years ago

    @Abiter

    So is it not possible to ever have 'bad' hardware/tools? Just different?

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

    @mcbi4kh2

    I apologised to you the other day for being rude, but I'm now just starting to see that I shouldn't have bothered. You've just re-iterated what Aofanboi said even though Dizzy had already answered it.

    I don't recall anyone praising the N64 for being easy to develop for so it doesn't prove your point.
    The Xbox came far too late so people were already up to speed with the PS2 so it doesn't prove your point.
    And as Dizzy had pointed out, most Dev's didn't get the chance to work on the DC so it doesn't prove your point.

    I'm sure if they'd had the choice on working with the DC or PS2 (in the early day's) they would have preferred to work on the DC although the advantage of DVD doesn't make this conclusive.

    You then went on about age etc etc and doing that classic young persons thing of assuming you won't be doing X, Y and Z when you that age. Fuck Off.
    Edited by 1 at 30/07/08 @ 10:51

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #50 4 years ago

    @Arbiter

    I find this continued comment that me, farty and dizzy should get different job's really fucking insulting to be honest.

    I'm good at my job. I enjoy my job. I love change (for the better.) I still love a challenge.

    Your insistence that programmers should just relish working on something new and different is just plain wrong. If its a pain in the arse, it's a fucking pain in the arse.

    What part of this don't you get? If I'm a gardener do I use the lawnmower that makes my job easy so I can concentrate on putting pretty lines on the lawn or do I fuck about using the more complex lawnmower that offers me no benefit? From the desk I'm sitting at now, with 8 other programmers aged between 22 and 34, it's no fucking different I can assure you.

  • mcbi4kh2 #51 4 years ago

    I apologised to you the other day for being rude, but I'm now just starting to see that I shouldn't have bothered.

    Your apology has already been accepted I'm afraid, you can't take it back.

    Basically you are saying people only got used to the PS2 beacuse there was no competition at the time.

    Basically I am saying, the PS2 got rid of the competition by the quality of its games and therefore couldnt have been that difficult to code for.

    I have never woeked in the games industry, but Ive heard its extremely hard and time consuming. You must be really good at it if you have the time / inclination to write walls of text on a message board.

    Although not at me I thought I would respond
    I find this continued comment that me, farty and dizzy should get different job's really fucking insulting to be honest.

    My friend it is a message board, nothing anyone can ever say to anyone is insulting.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #52 4 years ago

    @Mpc6429

    Yes, I'm THAT good at my job I can do both.

    "I fail to see what personal attacks bring to the argument though and I just can't tell you how upset they have made me. "

    Twat.
    Edited by 1 at 30/07/08 @ 11:25

  • mcbi4kh2 #53 4 years ago

    @spacemidget75

    ROFLMAO! Great banter!

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #54 4 years ago

    No one's crying about it mate. We just stated we'd rather work on X than Y. If you want to start embellishing the whole thread with images of me screaming saying "no! no! please don't make me do it!" then that's fine.

    I work with shit all the time. No one's jumping up and down about it.

    I didn't expect you to give a fuck about whether you were insulting or not - I do plenty of insulting. I was still going to mention it.

    So, all in all, well done for completely losing it on a website and going off on one about us all "crying a river" etc etc.

    3 developers agree on a point and you don't. Great. You're still right.

  • mcbi4kh2 #55 4 years ago

    Im a developer does that count? Farti isnt, he said so himself. That makse 2-2. Its settled, a draw it is. edit: not a games developer mind.

    And on a personal note, I couldnt (edit: find) this thread this morning I had forgotten what it was about. Now that is going off topic. :D
    Edited by 2 at 30/07/08 @ 11:41

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #56 4 years ago

    Farty is a dev and working on games isn't really relevant to this discussion IMO.

    So that's 3-2!

    With maths like that you'll make a great programmer when you're a grown up.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #57 4 years ago

    Besides I don't know what the fuck Arbiter is tbh. Probably worked as a games tester for Sony Europe once and now knows everything about the industry and games development. ;)

  • mcbi4kh2 #58 4 years ago

    DAM you! (I ignored Farti a while ago which is why I didnt know that)

    I want to be a games developer when I 'grow-up'. Any tips?

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #59 4 years ago

    @mcbi4kh2

    Yes, download the XNA stuff and give that a go. It really is quite nice to work with and easy to use!

    Unfortunately it's by MS so you might not like it!

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #60 4 years ago

    So can the gardener prefer the more comfortable mower?

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #61 4 years ago

    Can you answer my question please as it's pretty much all we were saying.

    For the record I've never said that the PS3 can't do games as good as the 360. Do a search if you like.

    But I still think that you can design hardware and API's etc that are a pain to work with.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #62 4 years ago

    I'll just take that as a 'yes', the gardener is allowed to prefer the more comfortable lawnmower.

    Realistically, do you think that Sony could hope to start from a level playing field with Microsoft given the ubiquity of MS operating systems, its tools, IDE's and API's?

    So you do agree that the 360 is easier to develop for then?

    Incidentally, non-MS consoles in the past have succeeded in making their systems 'easy' to work with without having a huge software company's resources to help. Sony are on the 4th system after all.

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #63 4 years ago

    Well look I'll just say it again. All we were saying is that the PS3 is harder to develop for. That's it.
    It's seems like we all agree!

    I think the argument spiralled when you suggested that if people find working on the PS3 harder then they should get another job.

    Although tbh my brain hurts now.