Over-Achievers Comments by Simon Parkin

@lord: I don't particularily see how. I nfact, I think they've led some developers / gamers to be more creative with content.

It's plain to see. Innovation has completely disappeared from disc-based media. Every game is a copy of something gone before, games are getting shorter, pointless arcane multiplayer modes are implemented in everything that moves in transparent attempts to add artificial longevity, just like inane achievements that encourage bizarre attempts at grinding through the same content in a different way. Most third party games seem to be written in the fucking Unreal Engine 3 which only makes FPS titles.

I could go on for a very long time, but I have no desire to depress myself further. This is the worst generation of videogaming I've ever experienced.

@lord: Compared to the rest of the development process it takes fuck all time to make a bunch of achievements - even really good ones. We're talking a few man-weeks absolute tops in a dev-time totalling maybe 100's of man-years. Pretty much negligible.

Have we ran out of games to review or something?

What the fuck is this shit article?

Lord: the Unreal Engine's been used on loads of non-FPS titles. Last Remnant, a JRPG for example.

I mean, you're well within your rights to dislike the output of this generation's consoles, but whatever your beef is, achievements and the Unreal Engine are certainly not to blame...

Achievements was the first thing to tell me I was no longer a "hardcore" gamer anymore.

Well im pretty much on my way to 100% on WipeoutHD, after 150hrs gameplay.. although I don't think I'l ever get there as there are a couple of trophies that require 2 controllers & I only have the one..

Also, I used to have a 360 & so after comparing the to systems I think I prefer the Sony version as it seems more focused on the actual achivement or trophy rather than the total score.

lord's a serial chat-shit gimp.

Best ignored.

/snatches rose tinted specs

Aaaaah.....

/begins to hate on a fantastic (360 + secondary gaming machine) current gen

Wheres the "not bullet proof" for dying on easy mode in fiddy cent5 ? the "irony" from Bioshock for photographing wossiname? The achievement in Mirror's Edge for flicking some one the V? The Rock Snob award in GH2?

And why after going on about it so bloody much in the article was Pacifism not listed as one?

There are two types of gamers; the quantitative and the qualitative.

Those of the former, generally care for achievements. The numbers in itself are some sort of quantification for thier gaming.
For the latter folks (like me),achievemts mean jack all unless they were something more qualititative. Give me items, clothes, cars, weapons for getting an acheivement. Heck, give me gamerpoints for achievements (something initially thought it would be the first time I got a 360. Shame).

I don't hate or judge people for liking them, and I can even see the point. As for me, I play games to avoid work and escapism, to enjoy the actual content itself and not achievements, So they mean nothing to me.

Not bothered at all with them. They encourage people to play a game in different ways? I do that anyway! :)

It would be much more worthwhile for me if they actually unlocked something in the game (ala Dead Rising, but more substantial), or earned you something other than a little number next to your name.

They're a good idea, I suppose, but not that much different from just unlocking things within a game - at least not for me.

Hardly "gaming's" greatest achievements - 360 gaming maybe. Ratchet and Clank had 'achievements' - skill points - albeit without the online willy waving - years before the 360 was a little red ring in Microsoft's eye, and has some great ones. Personal favourite: Happy Feat in R&C:F TOD - penguin a bunch of enemies, then get them dancing with the groovitron. Flower has some cute ones too, and I don't think much beats WipeoutHD for b*stard hardcore.

So let's not feed the bias police - lets have a list of PS Trophies to match.

"Achievements was the first thing to tell me I was no longer a "hardcore" gamer anymore. "

Ok. But tell me. Are you a "hardcore" bodybuilder?

@3william56

You dont even know what you are talking about. The 360 achievements beat the PS3 trophies just because its easier to compare them to friends. Otherwise they are the same for the multiplatform titles. RE5, SFIV and BO:Paradise have the same achievements/throphies on both systems for example.

"So let's not feed the bias police - lets have a list of PS Trophies to match. "

Bias schmias. The core of this article is explained in the first paragraph : the NUMBERS. People like watching that ticker roll up by 10s and 20s. MS are pretty clever for pandering to that particular OCD.

Also, nice to see the article acknowledge that "achievements" are actually anything but.

My observation: chicks don't dig gamerpoints.

Still donīt understand the whining about Achievements, you can ignore them, you know that, don't you ? Regarding Trophies... lol! Clearly a rushed attempt to catch the full speed train.

note-to-self: says the guy with 92% game completion.

edit: oh. nowdays I tend to finish game's on Hard as well, if there's a tile to unlock. The gen before I rarely did that. And sometimes the games reach a new level of awesomeness when played on Hard.

"The gen before I rarely did that"

I believe you rarely played games with a metacritic average score below 50% either like you do now.

Achievements don't really exist. If you have your Xbox 360 offline at most times (like I have for the last three years or so since I bought it) you'll never care about them, and be a happier person for it.

"I believe you rarely played games with a metacritic average score below 50% either like you do now."

What's a "metacritic" ? You mean other ppl's opinions?

"If you have your Xbox 360 offline at most times "
That's so weird... but don't mind me it's just my opinion, and that happiness thing it's "just yours" as well, right ?

>"Ok. But tell me. Are you a "hardcore" bodybuilder? "

Can't see the relevance, but I'm definately not. Heck, I wouldn't even consider myself a bodybuilder anymore, so my name is quite misleading.

I quite liked Lost Odyssey's "Million points of Damage" and "500 Perfects" achevements as well.
You got them naturally just by playing the game, but they were cool little landmarks anyway.

I got the 1,000,000 ponts of damage while killing the Blue Dragon, so got two achievements after that battle. But I agree, it's nice to have a little landmark to let you know how far you've gone.

Having only recently purchased an XBox 360, I am ambivalent about most achievements in all honesty. I think I would prefer to get one without knowing I was gong for it - like in RE5, I got an achievement for knocking an arrow out of the air with the knife. I didn't know there was an achievement for it, but it felt good to be told how cool I was ;)

"What's a "metacritic" ? You mean other ppl's opinions?"

Its the review average of most magazines and websites. If the average is below 50% like with Hot Wheels and CSI and you like those games better than say games with 90%+ average you have a pretty weird taste regarding games imo. I mean SFIV is one of the best fighters ever made but the achievements are both hard and timeconsuming. Is that reason enough to ignore the game. Of course not. Thats just silly.

@The Bodybuilder

Must be a pretty old picture on your profile then. Your in pretty good shape. It is you right?

Reminds me that i need to take a new picture for my gamertag.

huh? Can I not like SF4?... lol. Anyway, I like to read reviews, but fuck me if I ever let someone tell me what to do with my money.

I couldn't imagine not buying/playing the 5/10 Blue Dragon. Now I'm going to replay Avatar.

@miiiguel

"Can I not like SF4?... lol."

Of course you can. But have you played it?

"Now I'm going to replay Avatar. "

Sure you are.

Each to their own.

Achievements are great, iff you actually achieve them. What is pathetic is the lengths some people will go to in order to 'achieve' them. There isnt anything worthwhile in using game saves or boosting. Achievement whores ruined the ranked version of CTF in CoD3 because of their 'points matches'...it literally became Toss the Flag.

So, play the game in the way it was intended, if you get the achievement in doing so, even better.


p.s. Don't use your gamer score as some form of penis extension. It is what it is.

"Of course you can. But have you played it?"
God no! I'm a Virtua Fighter fanboy, (come on let everybody know... kool, kool thing).

""Now I'm going to replay Avatar. "
Nah... I was just messing arround. I'm playing this German game my father brought me, and I bought Wolverine (I hope it has the easiest Achievements ever! - I'm a sucker for hack'n'slahes, and Afro Samurai wasn't everything I expected - and it had some bitchin' hard cheevs, that I can tell you...).

@Fab4: MS banned gamesaves! Go ask StripClubDJ... lol! Him and alikes had their gamerscores reset and the gamertag painted green.

Call of Juarez has nice achievements too. Aside from the grinders, each level at some specific you needed to do. Something not required to actually complete the level.

@miiiguel

Wolverine is actually pretty entertaining. The achievements is not challenging at all. You get them all just by playing the game normally. You need to complete it 2,5 times though and to me thats not worth it just for the achievements. Good game for one playthrough though. I might play it again later on but like other hack and slash games it gets repetitive after awhile. Personally i would have seen a little more challenging achievements since the game isnt challenging at all. Might be better on hard mode but you need to complete the game on normal to unlock hard. Not a good decision achievement wise.

oh dang! Afro had the same thing, Hard mode unlocked after Normal, though after finishing Hard I realised, maybe I wouldn't be able to do it if I had jump right into it. Anyway, I don't mind repetition - that's maybe the reason why I like this genre -, and Raven surely knows how to repeat themselfs. I loved X-Men Legends. Can't wait to start playing it, actually.

They also banned modded 360s, yet I know 3 people who are using them to this very day.

@Miguel

You are one hell of a stayer i give you that. You dont quit until all the achievements are unlocket even though it requires some unbeliveable stamina. Like getting 1000/1000 in Afro Samurai or Blue Dragon. Im kind of like that with my training obsession. I can eat nothing but cod and broccoli for weeks just to reach my goal. If achievements are as important to you that fitness and working out is to me then you are truly insane though. LOL. Have a nice weekend my friend.

"They also banned modded 360s, yet I know 3 people who are using them to this very day. "
That's true. Though those ppl never know when they turn their console on and are banned. Regarding gamesaves they are much easier to find, I doubt you know anyone who uses gamesaves as of today.

@ muscleblade: you right, I do try to "catch them all", by legit ways, though sometimes I quit (thinks about Mile High Club); sometimes I have this rush feeling of acomplishment (thinks about "No Fighting in the War Room); sometimes a feeling of shallowness (Avatar). Afro was good on hard though, you should try it, nano-second reflexes required though.

Maybe not, however my point still stands...it is pathetic the lengths some people will go to pad a meaningless number.

"it is pathetic the lengths some people will go to pad a meaningless number. "

To gamers that care enough about achievements to know what their gamerscore completion is, the number is everything but meaningless. Crazy? Maybe. Still the case though.

The PS3 trophies are actually coming on in leaps and bounds. Comparing between people is pretty simple and entirely complete, just pick a friend and all the games that you've both got trophies in are listed. Pick a game and you get a side by side comparison. Easy peasy. It is a bit of a blatant rip of achievments, but achievments were a good idea, and good ideas tend to get ripped off.

Trophies are much better suited to some games than others; the more open ended the game the better. Fallout 3's Supermutant Behemoth trophy? Good. Makes you go back out into the Wilderness exploring new parts of the map. Guitar Hero 2's fail on easy? Bad. Giving away points for the sake of it.

@Miguel

Damn you have only unlocked a total of 2,645 achievements and i have unlocked 3,297 achievements.

I guess your high gamerscore is kind of deceiving that way.

My stats: Total: 2,652/2,860 (92.7%) - I couldn't, as is, have those many Achievements (units) as the total is < 3K. I tend to seek completion before I start I new game. Pitty you removed mr from your FL's, we could have some "spread sheet" fun. The reason I have more GamerScore than you, is perhaps, because of that, as I do them all (usually) I tend to score the ones with a high values, such as Afro's "Completionist" (Complete the game on both difficulties.) which is 200G.

http://www.my360stats.com/ach/Miiiguel/

http://www.my360stats.com/gs/Miiiguel/

one of my proudest achievements was beating all the time trial bosses on crackdown on pscyhotic difficulty

And..., - well I think the majority of ppl who think this way are unfamiliar with the concept - some ppl think this is some willy waving thing, but is not. As an example: just the other day I received a message from a guy in my FL saying "woot! woot! You have almost all Achievemnents, but I managed to do one you don't have: "Mile High Club"", which I then replied with some sort of "good stuff buddy, well done!" or something like that. The guy than replied to me with a complete description how he did it, and how I should try it. That said, it came to be a very social/friendly thing.

@miiiguel
no left 4 dead? orange box? braid? edf? doom? rez? ikaruga? flatout?

hard to max, but classics the lot of them. get on it :P but anyone who likes sonic youth is ok by me :)

I have Rez, need to start playing it... regarding L4D and Orange Box I'm not much into competitive online playing, though I try to be as ecletic as possible and sometimes I go outside of my comfort zone. EDF..., wow, that on is one my "radar" for quite sometime now. That one, I will have it. It's tottally "my thing". Thanks for the tips!

edit: ;) I'm glad someone noticed the stealth reference. Kudos to you, sir.

Oh but your trophy card IS an extension of your penis, you can claim it's the biggest/longest in the world and it still wouldn't count for a damn thing.

Personally I like trophies/achievements

Before, I wouldn't play a game more than once or twice except for rpg's cause I had no interest in replaying it in hard or what have you, now with this i'm somewhat encouraged to go and replay the game on hard or expert.

BUT, online trophies are a fucking joke, you really can't come to me and say you have done online trophies the hard way, because you'll be a liar, specially when they are so damn time consuming and that's why people won't bother in getting them the honest way, not when there's a much cheaper, easier way to get them

@Miguel

"The reason I have more GamerScore than you, is perhaps, because of that, as I do them all (usually) I tend to score the ones with a high values."

Not really. I usually do the hard and/or big value ones. Its because i have more games like Orange Box for example that have 99 achievements and less games like CSI, Friend or Foe or Cars that have very few but high value achievements. Easy math really. It takes way longer to get the 99 in Orange box for a 1000 than 3000 points from those 3 games im sure.

@gecks

+1

THREE from HL2?

LAZY JOURNALISM

SOMEONE GET BATMAN

achievements, most pointless invention since motion controls.. I should really tun them off, they take away from the game experience + the messages are retarded and annoying. Maybe a 5 year old likes it, like collectables or whatever tacky neurotic glee one likeminded might derive from this.

@ muscleblade: http://gamers.eurogamer.net/fight.php?re...

You keep coming with those theories. This is no rocket science, I play more than, so I tend to have a bigger score than you, yes even on the games we have in common... go figure.

@Miiguel

OK. You do play more than me. No doubth. I have two kids, full job and a very timeconsuming hobby that is fitness/ bodybuilding.

The reason i have more achievements than you still holds true though. You have more games with fewer achievements per game.

@Miguel

"no left 4 dead? orange box? braid? edf? doom? rez? ikaruga? flatout?
hard to max, but classics the lot of them."

I have them all. You havent played any of them. Thats another reason my friend.

edit: except EDF and Ikaruga.

Dude, I beat you at the games we have in common and at GS, what do you want to do about that? Go play some games... sheeesh...

Now, I'm suppose to buy the games you want me to? Still... I'm going to buy EDF which you don't have... and Flat Out??!! What the fuck is that?
Come on..., less time at EG, and you might, just might, some day catch (if you can).

And, lol, can I choose some games for you to play as well (this is ridiculous!), let me see, go get these: Afro Samurai; Too Human; Lost Odyssey; KUF; Tenchu Z; Def Jam; VP; VP2. How do you say "I have every single one" and I'll add "and I have 100% completion at every one".
I mean, you wana do some sort of competition you can't tell the rules alone..., is like when you told me "you have more Achievements than I do at GT4 because I don't do pigeons", come on...! What's next? "I beat at playing games in full moon nights?"

My friend, I beat you at this meta game because I'm more dedicated and persistent than you (once again compare the games we have in comon if you don't dig gamerscore), that's a frikin fact. Maybe what you're looking for is "l33t" play or online rankes or twitch gaming, though this game is other thing completly.
Oh btw, the "All dyes" Achievement at Fable 2 is very funny, specially the one you have to get at the colosseum... go get it!