No Spore demo, but expansions planned News

So basically they've confirmed it's using the same DRM system as Mass Effect.

So now I have a choice of rewarding EA for making an original IP by buying the game or punishing them for putting a totally unnecessary DRM scheme on the game by pirating it. That's not a nice choice to make

You also have the choice of not buying and not pirating it. Surprisingly.

Everything else is just looking for excuses.

I refuse to buy anything that I don't own the right to use as I want and spore unfortunately falls into that category thanks to the pointless DRM scheme. Now that leaves me with the choice of not playing the game or downloading a pirated version and I'm sorry but the pirated version will win every time. If you agree with that or not is not my issue but I fail to see why something I purchase, with my money, that I own, should then not be my property because EA says so. That would be like buying a car but then the car company dictating to you where you can and can't drive, nor may anyone else drive it but you and your not allowed to sell it to anyone else.

Sorry but as long as that DRM scheme exists on the game I won't be paying for the privilege of being treated like a criminal. I may as well get the pirated version at least that version won't treat me like a criminal.

You can't buy any software then, because you never ever own it. You also don't own the content of a book you buy, you just own the physical carrier.

Anyway, excuses. The truth is that the DRM will not ever stand in the way of you using the game. And it's people like you why there's need for DRM in the first place.

Disagreeing with DRM is fine - do the mature thing then and don't play the game. You're acting like a spoilt 5 year old though.

So long as this is one of those where it gives you an installation back when you uninstall it then fine. But if you can only install it 3 times ever then it's taking the piss. I format my PC around once every 6 months so after a year and half it would be useless. Thats not even taking into account random PC failures.

If you can't reclaim installations on uninstall, I'll be cancelling. I've noticed a rather nice pattern where budget games seem to have much less insane copy protection schemes, and it's not like I have time to actually really play games at the moment...

@UncleLou
While you are correct stating that dislike of antipiracy measures does not make getting pirate version of the game valid, there is one problem with this particular protection.
If I *buy* a game, I become its owner: I can put it on the wall like a painting, put it in a bag for twenty years and play it afterwards, or break it to pieces and eat with my morning cereal. Same with books and any other thing.

The idea that you pay as usual for what's effectively a *lease*, not *purchase* is what is annoying me. If EA wants to lease their games, fine and well, but I expect price tag of 5$, not 40. All that talk about them supporting game authentications (if that's even an option, I don't know if 3 installs is all you can actually get. If that's the case you'd better hope your comp won't break anytime soon) as long as they are existing is meaningless, since they won't exist forever, and the game I bought will stay with me.
Take fallout 1 for example. When you install it it asks you if you want to register with interplay for 'extra benefits'. Company is long gone, game is here. And I doubt it will be any different in case of spore.

To recap: their anti piracy measures are, in fact, piracy on their part. Or robbery in broad daylight, however you want to call it. And are driving legitimate customers away. I'm really not sure where's the sense of doing what they do. Maybe they figure that people will swallow paying price of full game for leasing it anyway.

Silvervein, I can fully accept that. Absolutely. And I fully understand if people don't buy the game because of that. I don't accept the "I am going to pirate it then" attitude though - it's just childish. If I am not happy with how a product is sold, I buy something else. I don't grab it for free. High piracy figures will only let the next DRM be even worse. Or they'll cncentrate fully on consoles.

Heck, at least buy the game and then pirate it.

It isn't necessary for the biz, stupid.

Still, I bought the tool so I have a vested interest in ordering the full game (to get my £5 back!).

If you don't agree with the drm then don't buy it. Unclelou is right on the super third option which really should be the second option! But then typical that people want to have their cake and eat it too.

@Silvervein: Spore is as far as i know first and foremost an online game. To get any real use out of it you'll need to play it online.

So that argument doesnt really stand...

@ UncleLou

1. People want the game and 2. people don't want to give their consent to an unjust system of distribution (DRM) by paying for a product which forms part of said system. Therefore: people pirate the game.

EA have established the precedent by breaching people's property rights: the fact that an individual doesn't have to buy the game doesn't make a difference, the concept of ownership is based on universal principles, it has to be otherwise we don't have a chance of forming an equitable or sensible system.

EA broke the social contract between producer and consumer (the consumer gives their wages to the producer in exchange for ownership of the product), so the consumer feels morally free to do as they wish with the producer's product. Why? Because the concept of ownership is a human intellectual construction, when people are compelled to by culture they will break it (the combined hype for a game coupled with individualism prevalent in a liberal society which makes people cynical of large powerful institutions such as EA).

DRM does make people pirate. Calling people childish for pirating is very silly. The industry started it and the industry will have to finish it. I find it curious that EA are opening new more intelligent distribution streams (free-to-play) like Battlefield Heroes while continuing to rob people be use of DRM. Three installs IS enough for most people. But say you have a couple of computer crashes? This is madness! No: THIS! IS! DRM!

@Willthesecond.

Its NOT limited to three installs on your Pc, its limited to three installs on SEPERATE Pc's.

You can install it on 1 Pc as many times as you need...so HD formats wont affect it.

@ Bagpuss

But won't the game count each new install as a separate machine? Even if it doesn't, the overall problem is still there. You own it, therefore you should be able to do whatever the hell you want with it.

No.

When you first run the game, you go online and register it. Like a non OEM copy of a Windows install.

You wont get any arguments from me about DRM, it sucks...but pirating the game because you think its limited to 3 installs throught the games lifespan is wrong...it isnt.

Think DRM is bad, why not try EA's digital download service. For £2.99 you can buy an Extended Download Service, which is

EA Store - download EA games direct to your PC! EDS means that with the purchase of your digital product, your download will be available for two years from the date of purchase. This is an extension to the complimentary coverage we provide for 6 months with any digital purchase from the EA STORE.

So buy a game without it and after 6 months you can no longer download it and will need to buy the game again. Whats more they are charging £39.99 for spore, £10 more than most shops are selling it for

DRM does make people pirate. Calling people childish for pirating is very silly.

No, tight wallets is what makes people pirate. And any excuse is welcome. Don't like the terms of sale? Buy something else. That's how it works with everything else, oly downloading is so damn tempting because it is so easy. Pirating is selfish (towards the devs and publishers as well as honest customers) and short-sighted.

The intellectually developed "pirating as a form of protest" formula doesn't work for me, sorry. Maybe valid for 0.000001% of people who download stuff. And that's generous. And it doesn't even work:

Don't buy the game, and if the majority agrees and doesn't buy it, either, exactly what you predicted will happen: EA will think twice before using DRM again. If you pirate it, you'll just confirm what they think they know already: they need even tighter security.

Once again: it's extremely childish behaviour. I don't particularly like consoles: closed systems, heavy licensing fees to finance the hardware, etc. Do you suggest I should steal one and download all games as a silent form of protest? Do you realise how silly that sounds now? No, I just don't buy them, or at least I try not to.

I will not buy spore but I will pirate simply because EA chose to put DRM on it I will not miss out on a game that could be one of the best ever made just because EA chose to be idiots. I want to play spore but I don't want to be treated like a criminal and what's sad is that I want to buy spore but I refuse to fund EA's pointless effort to stop piracy. I've been looking forward to spore coming out for 2 years and EA go and spoil it by treating me like a criminal for purchasing it legitimately. This is what annoys me I love the idea of the game spore I want to buy a copy but I can't stand companies that view it's customers as criminals if you treat me like a criminal I will act like a criminal and get a superior copy of the game.

Well I was rather dismayed after reading that. After seeing how much trouble people have had with Mass Effect PC's DRM - the exact same version that's going into Spore, I can't believe they'd actually implement it, but that's EA for you.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter how "good" this game is, as long as it has DRM I will never buy it. I will not put down £40 for something EA can shut off my access to whenever they please, at full price.

It didn't work on Bioshock, it didn't work on Mass Effect and it won't work on Spore, either. All it will do is tick off legitimate consumers once they've formatted their PCs a few times and the game tells them they have to buy a new license.

And to those who believe that formatting your PC will *not* use up one of your three activations. You are mistaken. Again, look at Bioware's tech support forums - it's well documented there that SecuROM eats another activation if you install it again on your computer after a format. This is what makes Spore totally unappealing to the enthusiast user who formats regularly or upgrades their hardware regularly. Since no one at EA, Maxis or Bioware(the latter because they chose to use SecuROM) have been able to get a straight answer as to what will cause the DRM to use another of the three allowed activations. Some users have reported being unable to play after simply swapping their videocard - something BioWare said they'd done in testing with no problems.

SecuROM is unpredictable, it's unstable, invasive and unethical as it installs itself into your registry and actively prevents you from taking measures to remove it without some serious technical meddling. It transmits data to EA unsolicited - including your personal information in the form of your computer name and user account name. It tries to disable firewall and anti-rootkit software - the list goes on here, really.

It's a wholly unappealing package and in the end it did nothing to stop Mass Effect from appearing fully cracked and working on torrentsites 5 days after the game's US release. The same will happen with Spore.

As long as SecuROM and DRM is part of the package of a PC game, I will never put down good money for that game. It's my PC, not the publisher's and they do not have the right to put this malware on my computer. I don't care how much money they spent developing the game, I really don't. They want me to pay for their products, they can stop infecting my PC.

I will not buy spore but I will pirate simply because EA chose to put DRM on it I will not miss out on a game that could be one of the best ever made just because EA chose to be idiots. I want to play spore but I don't want to be treated like a criminal

So because you don't want to be treated like a criminal, you behave like one? Compelling logic...

Oh, and I've got a suggestion to make: why don't you give the money you save by pirating games out of ideological reasons to charity? That will make the whole scenario a lot more credible. Each time you download a game because it has DRM, 30 quid to Amnesty or whatever you prefer.

I will not buy spore but I will pirate simply because EA chose to put DRM on it I will not miss out on a game that could be one of the best ever made just because EA chose to be idiots. I want to play spore but I don't want to be treated like a criminal

The spectacular irony of that comment hasn't gone un-noticed.

Yes it's a completely ridiculous system as I imagine a few hardware upgrades and crashes is going to effectively make your purchase redundant...but pirating it? Then you've just entered a vicious cycle and are no better both morally and legally than EA.

Me? I just won't buy it full stop, there is more to life than one game.

"The truth is that the DRM will not ever stand in the way of you using the game."

Yes it will, if you reinstall it three times, it's precisely what it's doing. The DRM is inhibiting you from using your copy of the game, which is just poop.

A lightweight DRM is one thing, but this seems more like hiring a movie and you get to watch it three times then it self destructs. As the type that likes to replay my games after a while, it's not an option. I will vote with my wallet in this case.

I'm aware that it's ironic and it just reflects my conflicting feelings about the game, I want to pay to buy the game but I know what securom does to my computer and I refuse to have anything like it on my comp. On the other hand if I don't play the game I'm missing out on it and I want to play it but if I pay for the game I'm both supporting EA's decision to put securom on the game and funding their efforts to fight their pointless war on piracy. I just can't see how you can justify paying for a game that you won't be able to play the moment you get a couple of problems on your comp, how can you justify paying for something that will become little more than a coaster the moment something goes wrong on your comp?

If you find piracy is against your morals than tha'ts your choice however is it moral to treat every paying customer as a criminal?

Games companies seem to be under a delusion that putting DRM on a game reduces piracy when I fail to see how you could find any evidence to support that claim. I think the fight against piracy is really a fight against consumer rights and to stop people having a say on what they do with the property they own.

Since I can't stop games companies from putting securom or anything similar on it's games, which behaves in the same way as a virus, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that it never gets on my computer.

I just can't see how you can justify paying for a game that you won't be able to play the moment you get a couple of problems on your comp, how can you justify paying for something that will become little more than a coaster the moment something goes wrong on your comp?

So don't buy it, it's pretty simple really. There are many things in life I would like, but can't justify owning for one reason or another, life goes on though. I would love a Renaultsport Megane R26-R, but can't really justify spending £25k on a 2 seater road car with semi-slick tyres considering I have a family, I'll cope.

So don't buy it, it's pretty simple really. There are many things in life I would like, but can't justify owning for one reason or another, life goes on though. I would love a Renaultsport Megane R26-R, but can't really justify spending £25k on a 2 seater road car with semi-slick tyres considering

Ahhh but when the government put the showroom tax into effect it will give you the excuse to steal it in order to avoid the unfair tax. You can even say you are stealing the car as a protest against it and yoiu would happily pay for the car if it didnt have the tax on it ;)

I rarely buy PC games. I rarely use pirated PC games. I tend to console for games and PC for web/utils/music/whatever.

Spore was the first thing for a good while to make me think to buy it.

Reading that it has copy protection means I won't and most likely not pirate it either now I'm put off the product to some extent.

Thanks for the heads-up, EA &/or Maxis - I shall spend my money on something else instead.

So, to recap:-

DRM = almost certain lost sale due to principle.

@dsmx: For goodness sake MAKE A STAND. Don't buy it, don't pirate it. Just accept that you'll have to live without Spore until it comes out with less evil DRM (which is very likely once it hits budget, at least).


Personally, pre-order cancelled. Sorry, I've had hardware die, I've seen software decide my computer has changed because the clock gets reset, I'm not willing to gamble my money on their three installs lasting me for as long as I want to play Spore. Especially not as it has an above average price tag. If it hits Steam, I'll probably get it there, at least that way I don't have the bother of tracking a DVD around in return for selling my soul.

EA: Stop being so bloody stupid. Require the CD, and make it not immediately obvious how to copy it, fine. However, this isn't going to block any more casual pirates than minimal DRM, and isn't going to block the serious pirates (you'll be lucky if it makes it to release unpirated), all you're doing is pissing off your customers.

DSMX

"That would be like buying a car but then the car company dictating to you where you can and can't drive, nor may anyone else drive it but you and your not allowed to sell it to anyone else. "

If you're drunk you're not allowed to drive! Unless you have purchased 3rd party insurance you can't let other people drive it! And if you've stolen it to take it for a joy ride (which is pretty much exactly what software piracy is) then try to sell it, well... you're not really supposed to do that either... all these activities make you an utter cunt.

I have to put my hand up and admit I'm a dirty fucking pirate myself at times, and a complete hypocrite, but seriously, grow up.

""The truth is that the DRM will not ever stand in the way of you using the game."

Yes it will, if you reinstall it three times, it's precisely what it's doing. The DRM is inhibiting you from using your copy of the game, which is just poop.

A lightweight DRM is one thing, but this seems more like hiring a movie and you get to watch it three times then it self destructs. As the type that likes to replay my games after a while, it's not an option. I will vote with my wallet in this case."

Call EA, get it reset.

Anyway, yes, the DRM is a pain in the arse. You can thank DSMX and his ilk.

One flaw with that comment it is your choice to drink and drive. 3rd party insurance is your choice as well. Stealing is your choice. You have no choice with securom it has to be installed and you have no say in that matter. I have no moral problems with pirating a game when the legitimate version has a virus on it and by any definition securom is a virus. So if you want to go buy spore and install the virus that is securom on your computer then go ahead but I'll be happy with my virus free version of spore.

Lots of DRM bullshit here.

I want to say, no demo, no sale. The creature creator is not 'the' game.

"So if you want to go buy spore and install the virus that is securom on your computer then go ahead but I'll be happy with my virus free version of spore."

Great, I suggest we all do the same then. Zero sales, Maxis bankrupt, and we all happily play Spore.

One flaw with that comment it is your choice to drink and drive. 3rd party insurance is your choice as well. Stealing is your choice. You have no choice with securom it has to be installed and you have no say in that matter. I have no moral problems with pirating a game when the legitimate version has a virus on it and by any definition securom is a virus. So if you want to go buy spore and install the virus that is securom on your computer then go ahead but I'll be happy with my virus free version of spore.

you do have a choice though... and you made the one that is equivalent of drink driving, letting someone uninsured drive your car and stealing a car, thus making you the cunt... I'd put £40 on you still pirating it even if it were DRM free. Like UncleLou has been saying... it's a poor excuse... pay the money for the game, then install your "virus-free-torrented-version". that way at least the poor Dev's get some of your money as well as you "sticking it to the man" or even better as someone suggested... give the money to charity.

I will not give EA money for anything with DRM on nor any other company.

If you can find me a way of legitimately purchasing spore without having to deal with bullshit DRM then I'll buy it straight away. Until that day comes I will not pay for spore.

Well all you who are gonna pirate it.. i hope you realise the best bit about this game is playing it online..

good luck doing that with your dodgy ripped off copies - however you justify it to yourselves!

Not buying this game. Going to download it. The DRM will be cracked within a few days. Twas so with Bioshock, Mass Effect, HL2, etc. I will be for Spore and Dragon Age as well. I still have my original discs of BG2, Planescape, Icewind Fail, etc, but this DRM is for the birds as is their "please buy another license" error you get if you install 4 times. F'ck that. A big three fingered salute to Bioware and EA. Maybe I'll send them my old motherboard covered in sheep's blood.

Arr, matey...

I rarely buy pc games and last game i bought was GTR2 which i consider special like others i bought in past, Spore was going to be a preorder for me but now i'm holding back. I'm the type of person who wipes my hard drive every few months and theres no way i'm buying this without knowing how long its gonna last me, it also doesnt help i instal some things to my parents pc to keep me entertained while down they're house minding the dogs during they're holidays so buying a full price game for me to play at home for 6 months or less before its useless and then only play it down the folks is unbelevably stupid.

Sould i blame EA? of course and if i did pick up a pirate version it would be a stop gap til something changes to the retail version to suit how i use my pc and games. Does it equal the example above of stealing a car because of some silly tax or whatever? no because i want to and willing to purchase it but EA has stopped that with unbelievably stupid measures and the blame should lie with them in my case, dont get me wrong if i seen a pirated version i wouldnt probally get it but the way some people here are willing to bend over and let EA take a shot at your rear is worrying, infact i would hope this is against trading standards and rightfully stopped or the game sold to us for a fraction of the retail price.

"We do have copy protection, it is a necessary part of our biz, but we've worked to make it something that does not punish the legit owners," Bradshaw said.

"You need to authenticate once at the first install. This happens online. You can install on three separate computers and you do need to register for the online features."

This is a direct contradition. Legitimate users are faced with restrictions which limit them to a certain number of installs, pirates are not. How does this not punish legitmate users?

I didn't buy Mass Effect PC because of this, and I won't buy Spore. While it's their perogative to add DRM, it's my perogative to tell them to keep their game.

"Call EA, get it reset.

Anyway, yes, the DRM is a pain in the arse. You can thank DSMX and his ilk."

A year, maybe two from now I don't wanna rely on EAs miniscule support to help me, when it's their bullshit. I don't really think there is any defence for this kind of DRM, regardless of some pirates ironic view on the matter.

@Bagpuss

I know for a fact that you do not know what you are talking about.

I have been through the process and used up my installs of Mass Effect. I had to email EA tech support to ask for permission to install again.

My first install was on a fresh Vista Ultimate 32 bit install.
My second install was on a fresh Vista Ultimate 32 bit install after upgrading a lot of my hardware.
My third install was on a fresh Vista Ultimate 64 bit install.
My fourth (after waiting 6 days to get the extra install) was on a fresh install of Vista Ultimate 64 bit after having some driver issues on the previous install. I reinstalled to make sure all driver issues were solved. Other than different drivers, the system was exactly the same.

I have since reinstalled Vista 64 once again due to issues with BitDefender and Vista 64. When I go to install Mass Effect again I will be forced to contact EA once again. I would bet money on it.

I refuse to buy another EA product until they realize they are only hurting legitimate customers with this DRM.

"good luck doing that with your dodgy ripped off copies - however you justify it to yourselves!"

Thanks. Although it will probably be cracked within a few days so we won't be that hard.

As I see it, adding DRM to spore is, as many stated here, driving customers away. Especially since it's not required.
Why?
Biggest draw of spore is to play a game populated by creations of other people. To get them, your game needs to connect to spore main server. Otherwise, you will be playing with what the game ships with, and knowing EA greed and aim to get sales from extra downloads later, it won't be much.
Now, if the important part of the game is that connection to main spore server, why not use the authentication system similar to MMO's? How hard is it?
I'm not even going to suggest that StarDock model of releasing a game, and then having free extra downloads later for people who bought it *is the system that rewards clients, instead of punishing them the way EA does*.

I wonder sometimes how long will EA bullying last before people will get so tired of it that EA sales will slump and they will be forced to change their attitude. I find it annoying if they say that they 'sell' the game while in fact they only *Lease* it. But still charge the price of full purchase for it.

EA can put Starforce, SecuROM or all they want on it, I am still buying this. DRM isn't pleasant but really guys, don't think because you're not buying Spore that EA will take another approach to it (same thing for the other way around, just because Spore could be a financial success doesn't mean every buyer agrees with the DRM scheme). I am more interested in the actual game instead of lamenting about DRM this or that.

I was just going to throw some money at play.com and get it on day one.

This DRM does trouble me, so I'll wait for the dust to settle and see how it goes before buying it.

Since this is likely to reach beyond the hardcore sweaty gamer nerd market (hi!), it will be interesting to see what sort of problems regular people have with the DRM. I know a lot of people who became annoyed with iTunes DRM only after they'd sunk a lot of cash into buying music. WIll be a shame if the same thing happens here.

Oh, if only this game was being launched through Steam!

When someone can produce definitive evidence that piracy harms sales, then they can put DRM on there. Until then, fuck off.

You have to have an amazing lack of common sense to need "evidence" for that.

And desparately close your eyes and ears to all indications.

Asking for proof of something is lacking common sense? Interesting.

I've not seen anything that shows the inclusion of DRM on a game results in increased sales.

@UncleLou

Actually, no, it's extremely sensible. I'm not convinced your average pirate is going to buy a consequential number of games if they can't pirate them. Your average pirate probably couldn't afford a fraction of the games they pirate, even if they wanted to, so the actual number of sales lost is tiny.

On the other hand, while the market will tolerate a certain amount of DRM (requiring the CD in the drive, requiring freaky drivers; this means you SecuROM), at each increasing level of DRM they push away more paying customers who frankly have far better things to be doing with their time than wondering the some DRM scheme will interfere with them playing a game they paid for.

Edit: Possibly worth mentioning, I do software development as the majority of my full time job.

Asking for proof of something is lacking common sense? Interesting.

Yes. It absolutley is in this case. Because you know full well that it's not possible to prove this scientifically. Have you ever looked at the figures? You can find torrent numbers of games that go into millions, with the game not having sold a tenth of that. If you don't believe that this has an influence on sales, I don't know what would convince you. I speak to people who got cease and desist letters on a weekly basis. I know people who haven't owned a legal game, or film, or music CD, in years. Do you seriously think all these people wouldn't consume any media whatsoever if they couldn't get them for free?

I've not seen anything that shows the inclusion of DRM on a game results in increased sales.

Maybe you're not looking hard enough?

Bioshock's rather harsh DRM worked for a couple of days or even weeks after its release, and lo and behold, the PC version outsold the 360 version in exactly that period, something unheard of in this day and age.

Similar story with Gothic 3. The sales numbers declined sharply as soon as it was cracked, and as much as the download numbers went up.

So what about all those DS games that are constantly at the top of the charts? That system is even easier to pirate for than the PC.

I'm not saying piracy has no affect at all, but I don't believe it's anywhere near as bad as they make out and it certainly doesn't justify the inclusion of DRM which makes life more difficult for people who purchase games legitimately.

You can find torrent numbers of games that go into millions, with the game not having sold a tenth of that.

Doesn't prove that all those people would go out and actually buy the game.


All I'm asking for is some actual proof of what these developers and publishers are claiming. You can go on about torrents all you want, but I want to see actual hard data that shows the inclusion of DRM to reduce piracy has anything more than a negligible effect on retail sales. Nobody has done that yet. We don't even have reliable sales figures for the PC.

Huh? I never said that. Sometimes 10% of these people buying the game would double the sales figures. Companies use these absolute figures to calculate their potential damage (which is legitimate from a damage claims point of view), but noone ever said every download is a lost sale.