UK tabloid attacks Nintendo over epilepsy Comments by Rob Fahey
The Sun talks to "top brain expert".
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While I understand, you have to be the most stupid person in the world to attack Nintendo - pretty much all games can cause someone with epilepsy to have a fit. It's like branding Nintendo the intital cause of the problem, which is awfully unfair. Like ssuelid said, we know all this and most of us have known it for years. Old, old, OLD news.
Then again, we're talking about The Sun... for crying out loud guys, stop reading The Sun and get something like, say, Reader Reviews sorted perhaps?
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Popsimax: That link isn't too 'Daily Mail', at least. Only Mary Spio made very sprious comments; Abu Ghraib torture is due to computer games!? Everyone else seemed pretty OK.
Although I am a little worried for the English language when 'Columbine' becomes a verb. "To Columbine. I Columbine, You Columbine, They Columbine, He/She Columbines, They are Columbining" :/ |
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Kami, they aren't attacking Nintendo as an example. Nintendo games do use flashing colors that others don't. Of the top of my head, I remmember a pokemon anime, where Pikachu's cheeks flashed vivd yellow/red at a certain rate, that trigged a big ammount of seizures. That Pokemon episode was edited to be aired in the US/Euro.
Anywho, it's the colors we see too comonly in Nintendo games (bright/flashy yellows and reds) that we seldom see in other (tagged "more mature") games (let alone in rapid flashing sucession), that are problematic. I mean, Kami, let0s think for a while here. Wouldn't it be easier for them to go after the BIG target, and by big target I mean GTA3? It would, but the truth, is that the above mentioned games, use brighter colors than GTA, which can cause a seizure. They aren't attacking the game. The game is simply another game - be it good or bad - they are attacking the color choice and color flashing paterns. I'm a big paladin of epiletic seizures, because I have 3 members of my family who suffered from epilepsy, one of them, who plays games. She never had an attack playing games (although she has a PSX, not a Nintendo console), but she did had two attacks in front of me (one by a cheap cartoon passing on tv, and another inside a car). Until you see someone you remotly care for having a seizure, it's easy to not care, or even joke with the matter. But it's a very serious issue. Google for the "epiletic pokemon episode", and you'll find that many japanese kids, who NEVER had had seizures before, were taken to the hospital thanks to the choice of colors. Strong enough color paterns, might start a seizure on a kid who didn't have any before. It's dangerous business, and Nintendo should edit their games, specially since their games are comonly bright colored, with flashy color changes. |
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That Pokemon episode was edited to be aired in the US/Euro.
Actually it's banned, in Japan too. The only other episodes to be banned were one featuring guns (oh SHIT!), Jynx - the "racist" pokemon, and...eh....a bloke in a swimsuit with inflatible breasts...(those three aren't banned in Japan btw, just the seizure episode)
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Gunfire flashes, "neon signs", and dance games with all their cheerful colour flashing...
Any of this familiar? Many games use dramatic light effects which flash vividly. It's not an uncommon practice, and it's not entirely Nintendo's fault. The warnings for epileptics are there though, usually in the first page or so of the manual. If an epileptic is stupid enough to not read the warnings, then IMO, it's their fault because they ignored the information that games have carried for years. If you're an epileptic, you already KNOW a large portion of games can pose a risk. Doctors will tell you that. They also warn you that the same goes with TV shows, Films and Cartoons. In fact, anything which uses flashing lights. With correct medical advice and a sensible head on your shoulders, you can keep an eye out for games which could pose a risk, and even enjoy the odd game or two. And I object to being "nannied" because a few doctors and epileptics are to pig-stubborn to open up a god-damned manual! And this covers all games, on all systems. If they can't be arsed to open the manual or remember that they have to at least check first, then that's their bad.
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most recently on 14/06/04 @ 21:01
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Kami, let's do a game. Let's pretend.
Let's pretend a 5 year old, decides to buy a videogame console. Now, let's pretend, he is unaware of his epiletic condition, thanks to his young age. Now let's play another game. It's called guess. Guess what console the 5 year old proly got from his parents, and what games. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't an action rythm game (very hip amongst 15 YO and older audience, but not what a youngster is looking for). I'll give you another hint, it proly wasn't GTA3 either (although they do seem to like it, I'm playing the game of the resposible parent, ence it won't buyu 18+ games to their 5 year old). I'll tell you also his console is purple, has an handle, and the game he is playing is "Super Pikachu Brothers 3: The Lightning Island World Advance". 20 year old are usually already aware of their epiletic condition. 5 years old, aren't. This'll mean many 5 year old kids will be playing games for their age (Super Marios and Pokemons). I mean the console and games are designed with kids in mind. The content of the game, the shape of the disk, the size and shape of the console - why not take a little more care to ensure shit doesn't happen. Here: http://www.wordtally.com/pokemon-ruby-cheats.htm Scroll down to "controversy". Some stuff is more likely to trigger ceisures than other. It's not just the flashing colors, but certain tones of certain colors, flashing at a certain rithm. That's why many kids who had not had any problems before, had ceisures with the pokemon episode. Now, I'm not saying seeing big brother won't trigger ceisures too, but so far, there wasn't a wave of people going to the hospital after epiletic seisures after seeing 15 mins of big brother was there? I'm suposing the brain expert isn't just aiming at the air when he mentioned specific titles. He did play them, or observe them, otherwise he wouldn't have hit on color intensive games. He didn't even aim at any easy targets like I said, like GTA3, or ManHunt, or Postal, all of which are used to getting media flak. It shows he isn't just aiming for some media exposure. He mentioned games who never made it into the controvertial headlines, and mentioned specific numbers (1/4000 probability of occurence in those specific games). I mean, it's a prety big number. 1 out of every 4000 clients of Nintendo might suffer seizures. Shouldn't Nintendo take special precautions specially since they aim their product to a younger audience, and that already reflects the care on the design/display/marketting of the product. Why doesn't this reflect on the extra care? |
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Kami, you are already nannied when buying a game for 5 year old kids. Characters won't die, they'll disapear in a puff of smoke, there won't be any guns nor specific violence, etc. This is made, not because the developers want to, but because the game is for a young audience. We accept and even enjoy these nuances, but that doesn't mean the game isn't for 5 year old kids. Now, if the game is for 5 years old, then it should have extra cares.
Much like a transformers toy and a Mc Farlane action figure. McFarlane has more violence in it, and simply the age tag, while a transformer will have no violence (no human skulls for e.g.), and much lower age tag, and no small pieces that kids can swallow. Both are action figures though. |
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First up, if you're five and have epilepsy, then the parents have the responsibility full stop, so that is your first argument shot out of the sky.
Secondly, you're right but heres another point - aiming it at Nintendo isn't going to solve the problem, nor is banning games that might case seizures in a small minority of people (And let us be honest - it IS a small minority). I'm just sick to the f***ing back teeth of "Warnings! Warnings!" - I have to read it on food, I have to sign forms before I go-kart or go on the snowboard slope now, it's all over the place and I, for one, am sick and tired of being told HOW BAD THINGS ARE FOR ME! Like I said, if you're an epileptic, and you play a game, you know of the risks. If it'sa child, the parents know of the risks. Nothing is safe.And clearly, nothing is sacred any more... I know, lets ban ALL games and have done with it to please people like this, eh? Extreme? If these people get their way, that is the direction it'll head. It has risks - for gods sake, what DOESN'T in this day and age? You can die eating fish by choking on a fishbone. You can step out onto the street and not see a car or vice versa. You can fall down the stairs and break your neck. Yes, it has risks. Yes, it is worth pointing out that some games may be more likely to induce fits than others. I can understand that, and it's good for people- especially parents - to be more careful about what they buy because, let us be honest, they have to be. My gran was epileptic, bless her soul - and yes, she had siezures and that is why I have an office/games room. She had enough to deal with. But please, spare me the "Ban" talk. Any more of this nanny state and we'll all be walking around in plastic bubbles so NO-ONE can get hurt doing anything ever... I'm not so much angry over being told games can trigger epilepsy, or being told which games may be more likely to trigger it. I take offense to all this crap that involves banning anything that "could" be bad for you. I'm just sick of it.
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I'm playing the game of the resposible parent, ence it won't buyu 18+ games to their 5 year old
That's a bit hypothetical, isn't it? And really, any parent who buys their 5-year-old a Pokemon RPG is being a bit silly. It would be like trying to teach them chess, or buying them YuGiOh cards.... Oh wait... |
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Lol, good point Daryoon.
Calming... calmed... I just dislike the fact that soon, everything will have Health Warning labels, from chocolate to paracetamol, from bottled water to vitamins.And everything that they thinkmay be more harmful, they'll ban. I'm just sick of hearing all this BS... god, is ANYTHING safe? I can see it now. "Death may be harmful to your health"
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Epilepsy manifests itself considerably late. I have 2 epiletic cousins. One had the first seizure at 5, other at 6.
So parents might not know their kids are epiletic. My epiletic aunt, had her first epilepsy seizure when she was 16 years old. You can start having such seizures at any age quite in fact, although it usually manifests itself when you are 5-10 years old. They are a minority, but they shouldn't be discarded, just because you are fine. Let's stop building ramps in the crossways in the streets, just because weelchair users are a minority. Or lets not have beeping sounds in the crossway lights, just because it tires your delicate ears, and because blind people are just a minority. Fuck everyone else, I'm fine, that's what matters. Let me tell you something, you are a minority in one aspect or another. You might not have epilepsy, you might not be blind, but there are things in your life, in which you are a minority, and you DEMAND equal respect and attention. A few years ago, if you were a gamer, we were a minority. But we demanded equal respect. This is a hobby as diserving of our time as a movie. Anyway, being a minority isn't an excuse to stop caring about it. Bigger warnings might scare costumers, but if Nintendo had a small playtesting section dedicated to epilepsy for it's games, maybe it could tone down offending color flashes. |
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Hey, I'm sick of it too, and sick of the aforementioned "parents buying their kids things that are way over their heads" (which I currently have to live with).
And, of course, it isn't going to get any better, because the general populance (Sun readers...) are so damned lazy they need other people to tell them what to do and what to believe and what to buy. |
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I know it isn't. But the warnings are there for people to read, and if you suffer from epilepsy, then to be honest - you are told what may cause such attacks.
I do care. I don't mind perhaps a list for sufferers detailing games which may pose a higher chance of inducing fits than others. But it's the manner of which this so called "doctor" seems to want to ban some games, and slap big cigarette-style health warnings on the rest. I do care. But I also think we, as PEOPLE, do not need to be nannied or smothered by a bunch of doctors who want to make sure that we do nothing but keep them in flash cars and designer suits. Life is about risks. Yes, we should know. But I don't think banning anything, nor putting warnings on the front of games is really going to help the problem... How's about I show this "doctor" the damage games can do? *grabs controllers* The PS2 might fit with enough force... but the X-Box controller is going to be considerably more challenging...
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Daryoon, each kid is different. Most 13 years old won't have problems playing GTA3. But each kid is different, and they have to aim to the upper common denominary - keep in mind, that many parents, choose to "shield" their kids from such things as sex and violence until a late age. It's their decision. It's their kids, at their responsability, and they are the ones educating them - they should have a certain ammount of freedom to the ammount of values they wish to transmit - even if you consider such choices silly - it's just different ways. It might be silly for them, to tell your children to eat meat. It's up to the parents to decide what to teach their childs.
When they are consumers (they buy the games to their kids), an accurate ratting is necessary. Not just a age tag mind you. Animated violence is something some people might find apropriate for 15 years old, while sexual themes might only be suitable for them when they are 18 year old. I'm even all for removing the age tag, and only having hazzard tags. Sexual themes, visual violence, cusing, tobacco/drugs use, etc. Bright colors that are more prone to producing epiletic seizures? Sure, why not. It should be tagged up there with guns and swearing. Give me a reason why not? Don't you think a game, like lets say, Mario Kart DD, is more prone to cause an epiletic seizure than GTA3? So why not tag it in the box? Much like it is tagged sexual themes, and visual violence in GTA3. |
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Daryoon, if they want to let their kids play such games, it's their choice, as parents. But they should be warned as consumers what games are more risky to causing epilepsy. I for one, wouldn't play those with my counsin for example.
I am a consumer, I have the right to know exactly what I'm consuming. And while other products like food/beverages (which contain the ammount of each quimic product in the label), and movies (which contain length of movie, features, age tag, content descriptors, etc), games are still very reduced in their tagging. We have age tags, and content descriptors, but they treat the game as a movie, while a game should have more stuff. Not to mention that thanks to the more modular and interactive nature of games, the descriptions don't fit as well. One can easly access debug tools and hidden scenes in games... |
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I know... a small warning like that on the back is a good compromise, because those who need to be reminded will be. But it'll make no difference.
As for being nannied in games... possibly, but it varies wildly according to game type and the company at the helm, not to mention the style of game. I just guess I'm tired that doctors seem to want to put health warnings on everything. A limit would be nice, and doctors perhaps realising that most grown adults are able to make a sensible decision would be another... |
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But the point is that they don't -know- what's in the game. They buy GTA3 for their kid because he asked for it and it's a video game, hence it must be for kids (I've heard about young teens who have asked for a new console, only to be denied because they're "too old" for games).
They don't give a fuck about the content - it's a game, and thus it's a nice little babysitter that'll keep little Timmy in his room. |
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Daryoon, saying most parents are like that is sad. And actually I don't care. I supose you won't be like that, nor shall I when we have kids, if ever. The point is, that because people don't care for the warnings, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be there.
Videogames as a mainstream medium is something relatibly new. Most parents havent' addapted yet to it. The future will be different though. And infastructures should be in place already, not to mention they NEED to be, for those who DO care. |
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terminalterror
14/06/04 @ 22:02
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"I'm suposing the brain expert isn't just aiming at the air when he mentioned specific titles. He did play them, or observe them, otherwise he wouldn't have hit on color intensive games. He didn't even aim at any easy targets like I said, like GTA3, or ManHunt, or Postal, all of which are used to getting media flak. It shows he isn't just aiming for some media exposure. He mentioned games who never made it into the controvertial headlines, and mentioned specific numbers (1/4000 probability of occurence in those specific games). I mean, it's a prety big number. 1 out of every 4000 clients of Nintendo might suffer seizures. Shouldn't Nintendo take special precautions specially since they aim their product to a younger audience, and that already reflects the care on the design/display/marketting of the product. Why doesn't this reflect on the extra care?"
The reason he picked out Nintendo games is that he was asked to study the risks of seizures for a BBC program on Nintendo's fortunes, and they picked up on the lawsuit against Nintendo relating to seizures, so he tested some of their games of the time, and some of their recent games, of which those mentioned had seizure risks. If the process of warning people of every risk they might encounter, with numerous dislaimers, warning labels and notices for everything you do continues, people will just ignore them. The government have admitted they will always have to up the warning on cigarettes, now with text warning, then they'll have to have disgusting pictures, getting ever more extreme as people just get used to them and ignore them. If this happens, it will be a bad thing as some warnings are necessary, and will be ignored. |
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On Midlands Today last week a Neuroscientist had apparently worked out the various ranges of frequencies of strobing lights/colours that were most likely to trigger a seizure. Not only had he done this but he had also written a computer program that could 'read' frequencies of broadcasts (I'm assuming from a camera or direct feed) and flash up a warning if it detected such an effect.
Surely it's not a great leap to imagine games having to pass a 'health-test' by Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo? i.e. they go through their normal game approval process, but the game is constantly monitored for any sequences that could induce a seizure? A little bit of education for artists and programmers on the specific frequencies and colours they should avoid when creating special effects wouldn't go amiss either. In fact it would be mandatory if these were tested for as above. Just a thought. |
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Actually, the warnings in cigs is different. Because cigarrets are bad for your health, and people start taking them because they are stupid and find it cool because their friends says so, and then become adicted.
Now, media, doesn't need to shock people trying to scare NEW consumers. It simply should educatly tell what the game is consisted of. It's not a warning trying to shy away potential new asses who wish to kill themselves and those arround them smoking tubes - it's a content box, which would say "violence" "sex" "flash colors" or whatever. It isn't a thing that's trying to control people's minds (which is what the government tries to do with the Cig warnings - to make people think it's bad). It's something to inform people of the content. The same way you might read an iogurt searching for calcium in its constitution. Those who just want a yogurt will buy any. Those who want calcium, or can't cosume Badlibu Quimical Essence C+, will search for it in the table of constents. Don't compare both. It's different, IMO. |
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3william56
15/06/04 @ 06:39
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I have sympathy for Cyberclaw's points, but I don't think warnings are a worthwhile solution. It's chicken and egg - people who haven't had an episode aren't going to heed any warning. It's worth restatingring that no game *causes* epilepsy in unsusceptible persons. Games (or Pokemon cartoons, or any other light source at the right frequency) only *trigger* a siezure in an *already* susceptible person.
The issue with Ninty is that they are unusually closely associated with a visual style (like certain Jap cartoons) which is itself unsusually prone to triggering episodes in *already susceptible* people. These people are virtually certain to sieze at some time, it's just a question of when they hit the trigger. Educate me here, CC: is there actually a harmful effect from a seizure itself (apart from general distress, or belting the surroundings)? Because if not, maybe it's better that a person finds out that they're *already* epileptic whilst sitting in front of the TV, rather than (for ex.) belting down the road with the sun flashing through railings (another well known trigger). |
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Tiger_Walts
15/06/04 @ 09:44
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I 100% agree that every game should adhere to a mandatory health test as part of the QA process. With a computer analysing the video images during playtesting, the things that are most likely to induce an attack can be picked up with no extra time cost. The same can go for joypad rumble, some games have the actuators in a joypad on almost constantly, with this there is a risk of capilliary damage.
The Sun could have explored the current guidelines and legislation on this issue and put forward a positive argument, companies DO take steps to alert the user about this problem but is it enough?. Instead they go for the sensationalist approach, lazy, lazy journalism.. |
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Timberland, just convince yourself of that... just keep fooling yourself...
The rest of us know that Nintendo are not alone in this... it's a common problem and focusing on,and blaming, one company is not going to help. I would agree, but The Sun pretty much stands for shoddy journalism. I mean, seriously, how many buy it for the stories? OK. Now hands up if you buy it for Page 3... Rest. My. Case. |
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3william56, it is dangerous. The person turns pale white, and starts shaking uncontrolably/loosing conscience. This can lead simply to some bruises, to bitting and even swollowing the tongue, incontinency, screaming, and even breaking some bones with a bad enough fall, depending on the location and the state of the ceizure, if the person felt it coming or not, etc.
If unatended for 20-30 minutes, it can cause permanent brain injury or even death. There is also a rare chance of happening an sudden unexplained death by epilepsy, which affects arround 2% of all the deaths related to epilepsy (so very very small). This isn't really understood by doctors, since people just die without any signs of a ceizure. There is obviously medicine to help to stop it, but the person must try to have a balanced life. Good sleeping habits for e.g. It isn't a disease per say, but many factors together that make a person subject to it, like brain damage, tumors, etc. Half of the people who have epilepsy the doctors don't know why they have it. It has to do with electrical impulses sent to the brain. Quite in fact 5% of the world population will suffer from a ceizure of some form during their lifetime. An epiletic ceizure to a pregnate woman is VERY dangerous for various reasons as you can imagine, and it is inerited (even if your parents don't have it, but a uncle has it, you might have it) There is plenty of information in www.epilepsy.com |
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Kami we realise that nintendo are not alone but you have to admit they are the main culprit as there games are more colourful and flashy than the others, thats not to say that sony and MS sghould do nothing either.
i agree with cyberclaw, games companies have a responsibilty and maybe there should be some form of testing regarding epilipsey as are flashing lights that cause seizures really that necessary in games like mario kart - i think not and nintendo should take on the greatest responsibility as they are aiming at the younger audience, who are at the greatest risk as many of them may not have yet found outh wether they suffer from seizures |
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But it's not just "Kiddy" games. Nintendo may be bright and vivid, but there are games out there which, to be honest, people forget can also have a similar effect.
It's not that Nintendo are the biggest offender in this - they are offenders but many games also have this problem. It's just that Nintendo are the easiest target... And, tbh, we did already know this. I'm not disputing Ninty are culprits, and other companies also need to focus on this issue. I just don't think warning labels and banning games that pose a risk for a minority are really the solution. We should just make the issue known, and make sure people do know that games, in general, can cause an epileptic fit. We're talking about it though, which is a start. |
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gamingdave
15/06/04 @ 12:47
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If you are aware that you are epileptic then im sure you would benefit from a warning on the label, quite how it would work I have no idea,dont people have different tolerances? However if your unaware of your condition, or the buying parent is unaware, then what notice are they going to pay to a label? Theres already a consumer information and precaution booklet inside all the gamecube boxs, sticking the warning on the outside IMO wont make a difference to the unaware.
For years manuals have told us to take a 15 minute break every hour. If you look at that information booklet in the gamecube boxs, and if I remember correctly inside the gamecube box itself, it also states a load of other advice. I dont pay any attention to it but know the advice is there, often gaming on the projector in a dark room for several hours without breaking. A child may not understand this advice, and its a parents responsibility in this case to make the desisions. No parent should be buying any machine for their child and not reading all safety instructions that are supplied. |
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Every Gamecube game I own, THERE IS a warning on the packaging. The back cover has a RED BOX giving a warning about Seizures(Photosensitivity).
Literate people are informed to read the precaution booklet. Illiterate people just see red and white squares with undecipherable glyphs. The first warning in the precaution booklet states "!WARNING - Seizures", and proceeds to state to watch their children playing games(and what to watch for). I suspect there will be a lawsuit from a parent that had a seizure whilst "watching their children play video games" and blame it on the booklet stating they should watch their children play computer games. They should add a clause "Warning please get someone else to watch children if you yourself have seizures" to cover all bases. X-Box games have a similar, if not less pronounced, warning on the back cover with info in the package. Lastly the PS2 games sort of glaze over the concept on the front page of the manual, giving a stronger heading to "PIRACY" than the "Health Warnings". With no warning on cover. I suspect Sony don't want the people to miss the small 1/8 page warning*, if they receive a "gold disc" edition. Anyone have Dance Dance Revolution or the like on the PS2 and can inform me of it's package warnings? If you can read the tabloid you can read the label on a new game. Hey if you can read this forum.... You are right Kami. Maybe a short video clip at start shouting "Hey parents..." and proceded to give virtues to child if there is no game save info for game. They'd sell more memory cards, so the makers would have more incentive. REMEMBER buy the game: even if only to get your Health Warning.(SM) (*based on Ratchet & Clank(TM) booklet ) |
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Jawolf, I have 3 original PAL GC games, published by Nintendo in front of me. Zelda, Metroid and Mario Sunshine. Here are the warnings I can see:
-Read the instruction booklet before setup or use your system. -For use with PAL GC only. Not compatible with NTSC GC -Please Retain the Packaging -ELPSA rating (3+ for Zelda for e.g.) No more warnings on the box. Although I wasn't sugesting a warning for every game. I was sugesting a warning for more color intensive games (in the box, so that people KNEW before buing them - like I said not all games, but color intensive games like Mario), like the ones described above - which are MORE likely to start a seizure. Moreover, even more important, it would be to have playtesting sessions, to detect parts of the game which might trigger ceisures, and change them before publishing the game. |
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Hmmm....
CyberClaw, I have a US GC and each game definately does have the warning on the outside and in. I'm at a loss as to why they don't have it on the PAL versions??? Maybe that is why Nintendo takes so long to get games to market in Europe and Australia? They spend time taking warnings off the cover art!? I am at a loss. In the US they probably are ready for more litigous folk? I just wish I could read Japanese so I could work out if the Japanese region ones have a similar warning(and work out what I was doing in that wierd box game Dobache Bancho[sic] and Biohazard!?) |
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Cover arts are very different from region to region.
A glaring example, is that the color scheme of the US PS2 Platinum hits is main black/ secondary red if I recall, while the Euro Platinum Hits is main silver/ secondary black. The classification of the game is also different from region to region, and there are different organisms to classify the game in the different regions. All in all, the cover might be similar, but it's hardly the same. |
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And I object to being "nannied" because a few doctors and epileptics are to pig-stubborn to open up a god-damned manual! And this covers all games, on all systems. If they can't be arsed to open the manual or remember that they have to at least check first, then that's their bad.
While I do agree with you that banning these games is outrageous (only a very, very small portion of the people playing those games have epileptic seizures), I do feel that the current warnings are not effective. Every game carries an epilepsy warning (edit: the same "general" warning that's not specific for that game but aimed at games in general), so that makes it hard for people to distinguish a puzzle game without bright flashes from a game that does have bright flashes. If doctors/governments/epileptics want to do something about it, let them set up a rating system where games are rated by risk factor, just like games have an age rating. This way it'll be easier for people to distinguish those games that carry a risk. 20 year old are usually already aware of their epiletic condition. 5 years old, aren't. This'll mean many 5 year old kids will be playing games for their age (Super Marios and Pokemons). I mean the console and games are designed with kids in mind. The content of the game, the shape of the disk, the size and shape of the console - why not take a little more care to ensure shit doesn't happen. The parents should be responsible for that sort of thing. 5 year olds don't run into a gaming store by themselves. It's the parents that get the console and games.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 16/06/04 @ 10:08
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