Xbox 2 will release 'in late October, early November'

By Eurogamer staff Published 11 February, 2005

You'll be able to buy the next generation Xbox in both America and Europe in 2005, say experts.

While internet news sources today have reported that Microsoft is readying to launch its next generation Xbox hardware in America and Europe in the fourth quarter of this year, Eurogamer has learnt that the specific timing for the machine's roll-out is late October or early November, and merely weeks after the US launch. The exact date is yet to be solidified.

Speaking under conditions of strict anonymity, senior American and British development, publishing and retail sources have confirmed the launch window in the past weeks.

It is also now widely known among British sources that Microsoft UK is currently in the planning stages of a spectacular and unprecedented launch event in central London for the winter release.

While it has been accepted for some time that Xbox 2, currently codenamed Xenon, would be released in America before the end of the year, the news of a late October/early November launch in both the UK and Europe will send shockwaves through the industry and gaming community on this side of the Atlantic.

Many have expressed concern that Microsoft is forcing the next generation of console hardware too early, and that the current generation still has much to achieve. The most famous example of this came from then Nintendo of Europe MD David Gosen speaking at an ELSPA summit in London last October, where he lambasted Microsoft for pushing a next generation machine to market in 2005, and even went so far as to question Microsoft's motivation as profit.

"In every cycle, some manufacturer not profiting from the current cycle is eager to kick-start the next one," he said at the time.

EA recently confirmed that next generation Xbox titles would ship alongside current generation offerings later this year, although the certainty of a European release this side of 2006 has been muted: until now.

Microsoft has already publicly snubbed the suggestion of Xbox 2 being shown for the first time at GDC in March, and it now seems obvious that E3 will see the grand unveiling of the machine.

A Microsoft spokesman characteristically swatted away any next gen talk: "Microsoft has not made any announcements regarding the next generation. We are currently very focused on further building the success of the Xbox console today and are not speculating on timing for a future version."

However, it must be noted that with the current lack of Xbox console stock still proving to be a huge problem for retailers and the future Xbox first party release schedule having almost completely dried up, it's an interesting comment for Microsoft to make at the point when every publisher and their dog are busy leaking Xbox 2 software information.

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Comments (131) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Captain Fetid #1 7 years ago

    You can say that again.

  • Wobbler #2 7 years ago

    Forza is now an XBox 2 launch title? :p

  • Tiger_Walts #3 7 years ago

    I don't think Microsoft will ever make their Xbox 1 money back, but then a lot of the infrastructure built for Xbox 1 will be used for Xbox 2 making it a cheaper console for them to roll out.

  • renzo #4 7 years ago

    This kind of news leaks doesn't exactly encourage anyone to buy an Xbox 1 any time this year does it? I'm sure they'll be promising everyone that they're still "fully behind the Xbox (1)", but that's just good ol' PR blurb. I really don't see Xbox 1 continuing to sell long past it's sell-by date like the PS1 did, and I expect MS will drop the first Xbox soon after 2 is out.

  • Lutz #5 7 years ago

    11/11/05: Halo 3. ;)

  • pjmaybe #6 7 years ago

    Oh great...!! No really, that's kinda fucked the xbox for new releases this year then!

    Peej

  • Lutz #7 7 years ago

    ?

    Why 05/02/06?

  • bzzct #8 7 years ago

    I don't think Microsoft will ever make their Xbox 1 money back

    Neither did they.

  • #9 7 years ago

    /shoots his fat on hearing this news

  • mcmonkeyplc #10 7 years ago

    I tells ya what...my xbox live subscription better work on both! Thats IF I bother to buy this thing.

    Little is even known about the god damn thing and its going to be released in september!

  • moggsy #11 7 years ago

    Well, the console might launch this year but it'll probably be another year before any games capable of taking advantage of it are available!

  • IronGiant #12 7 years ago

    Not interested thanks. I'm more than happy with my newly modded XBox that's now a media centre. Have my Cube ready for Res Evil4 and PS2 for DMC3 and other goodies this year. My PSP will be imported from the US next month so i'll be more than content to sit back and wait for Sony and Nintendo to tempt me with their next gen offering. No way i'm being an early adopter this generation.

  • Lovemoose #13 7 years ago

    "Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. Microsoft doing exactly what they do best, bulldozing in there trying to take over everything. I really hope nobody buy its"

    Much like Sony did with the PS1? They all do it dude... So would any company with a big cash bucket. It's not restricted to this industry; a good example is the relaunch of daewoo as chrysler - if you bought a daewoo car in the last few months, they'll swap it for a brand new chrysler. That costs, but they've got the cash and want to build the brand. It's the way things work nowadays.
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 13:18

  • Salvia #14 7 years ago

    MS are dropping the Xbox like a bag of hot shit.

    Production will cease soon and there will be very few or no ms-published xbox games after q1. They'll urge retailers and publishers to discount the price of xbox games (even new releases) to 'clear the channel' before XBox 2.


  • Salvia #15 7 years ago

    Lovemoose; Sony didn't do this with the PS1. They still encouraged developers to produce games for it long after the PS2 was launched. They're still manufacturing PS1's.

    As I said before MS are dropping the Xbox...

  • Artemus #16 7 years ago

    Well I won't be. Xbox 1.5 with Halo 2.5 - no thanks.

  • Dant #17 7 years ago

    Whats the point of releasing a new machine so soon, surely the Xbox 1 still hasnt reached it`s limits. What a cheap way to try and make a bit of cash.

  • #18 7 years ago

    "Even more when they pay more attention to european market than to japanese market. At last. "

    There isn't a Japanese XBOX market... unles the 388 they sold by accident last week is anything to go by...

  • #19 7 years ago

    "Whats the point of releasing a new machine so soon, surely the Xbox 1 still hasnt reached it`s limits. What a cheap way to try and make a bit of cash. "

    Welcome to the Microsoft Future on Consoles and gaming my friend... Scary huh?

    /Personally I think it's all BS and it will NOT be out in November, but hey :)

  • oceanmotion #20 7 years ago

    Right now I feel its too early but come the end of the year I might change my mind.

    We have great games up until June as far as I can remember. GTA SA being the last big one.

    Perfect Dark
    Project Gotham Racing 3
    so on for launch.

    I would love that but its just a ripoff at launch in the UK so I will probadly wait.

  • bzzct #21 7 years ago

    I'll buy it.
    Even more when they pay more attention to european market than to japanese market.

    Out of interest, once you've bought it, how do you buy it, more...? ;)

  • oceanmotion #22 7 years ago

    Forza and Jade Empire ! Don't be daft. There are certain Xbox titles. Kameo is definetll an Xbox 2 title. True Fantasy Online is canned, MS own the IP, the studio who was making it is no longer liked by MS since they were taking ages and using MS's money for other games.

  • drumbaby #23 7 years ago

    Wow, that was a pretty short life cycle for the Xbox.

    New Xbox one games will no doubt still come out, but in a similar trickle to the latter day PSOne games when Sony were supporting their new baby, the PS2. Sounds like Xbox 1 hardware isn't really being replenished, even if software is.

    So that's a percentage of 20,000,000 Xbox owners, a comparitively tiny user base, being dragged into the Xenon era when the Xbox was just coming into its own. Are they hoping that the gathering momentum for Xbox in the States will continue with the newer more expensive machine with (I imagine) a small launch library?

    No backwards compatability by all accounts. With 20,000,000 installed users, as opposed to the 80,000,000+ that Sony will be courting with their backwards compatable machine, will this decidely premature launch really help Msoft's cause as much as they're hoping?

    PS3 really is breathing down its neck, and it could only be a matter of months between the two consoles by the looks of it....Oh, and Revolution. :)

    It'll be interesting to see what kind of effect this early launch has on the status quo.

  • Johnson #24 7 years ago

    Bah, I meant February 9th, that was the date supposedly flashed up during the Halo 2 legendary ending.

    In other news, Rare today announced that they were moving all of their forthcoming games onto the XBox2. However, this would only entail a short delay of 2 to 3 years. Providing they're happy with them. And market conditions are right. And the XBox 3 isn't due to be released in the following 18 months.

  • Blerk #25 7 years ago

    Too early. If it's true, I smell a cock up in the making.

  • #26 7 years ago

    I still think it's bullshit... Where's the 'Offical' announcement... Not that it can slip whenever they feel like it...

    Where are the pre-orders!!!! LOL...

    naw... I think it's all a wind-up... I really do!

  • andrewfromdoncaster #27 7 years ago

    Xbox 2 and Revolution for me then.

    This Xmas should be good, so long as the damn thing comes with a friggin hard drive that i can use on my TV...

  • Lovemoose #28 7 years ago

    "Lovemoose; Sony didn't do this with the PS1. They still encouraged developers to produce games for it long after the PS2 was launched. They're still manufacturing PS1's. "

    That wasn't my argument; It was about this: "Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. Microsoft doing exactly what they do best, bulldozing in there trying to take over everything. I really hope nobody buy its"

    At the time of the PS1, Sony charged into a market ruled by other companies, using their vast cash reserves to push a product. "Bulldozing", is the way big companies do business; if you decry microsoft for doing it, you must also then decry sony for doing it too.
    My point was about this, not the lack of support MS are showing for xbox 1 owners. On this, I agree - They're showing a lack of respect for their customers that Sony didn't, when they kept on publishing PS1 games.

  • Blerk #29 7 years ago

    Xbox 2 and Revolution for me then.

    This Xmas should be good, so long as the damn thing comes with a friggin hard drive that i can use on my TV...

    The chances of getting a new Nintendo home console before Christmas are about the same as Santa himself dropping it off for you on his way to work. :-D
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 13:50

  • andyk #30 7 years ago

    If it has been wrongly announced it would seem a massive cock-up. But something tells me it will release this year, but with a v.high price tag. When PS3 releases in 2006, MS lower their prices meaning that Sony and Nintendo are always playing catch-up.

    by the way whats going on the EG clock?

  • tpfkanep #31 7 years ago

    Dreamcast, anyone?

  • BeDevil #32 7 years ago

    The 'dual launch' games thing seems like a huge pisstake..

    Typical scenario: Will you buy NFSU3* for Xbox or Xenon? The only difference being that perhaps maybe it would actually run at 60hz on Xenon, instead of the crappy 30-if-you're-lucky NFSU/NFSU2...

    There should be time allowed for full development of ACTUAL new games, new IPs with all new engines, not just ports of existing stuff for the entire first generation of Xenon titles... what's the point?!!?

    They could just launch a slimline Xbox for now, and hold off Xenon for another year to allow Halo 3, Gotham 3 [+ some new 'amazing' games, hopefully] a full and useful dev cycle

    *insert any EA title here

  • ST.. #33 7 years ago

    Ridiculous.....what on earth sort of launch line up will it have?

  • andrewfromdoncaster #34 7 years ago

    "It's not restricted to this industry; a good example is the relaunch of daewoo as chrysler - if you bought a daewoo car in the last few months, they'll swap it for a brand new chrysler. That costs, but they've got the cash and want to build the brand. It's the way things work nowadays."


    Chevrolet actually......

    /wanker mode off

  • bzzct #35 7 years ago

    Dreamcast, anyone?
    Sure, I'll give ya £3 for it.
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 14:04

  • andrewfromdoncaster #36 7 years ago

    "The chances of getting a new Nintendo home console before Christmas are about the same as Santa himself dropping it off for you on his way to work. :-D"

    Blerk: i wasn't expecting Nintendo to launch it by then, i was just referring to Xbox2 launch. 2 consoles at Xmas would be too much!

  • ruttyboy #37 7 years ago

    This is happening. MS have for all intents and purposes dropped the Xbox (1) already.

  • IronGiant #38 7 years ago

    Lovemoose i think you'll find that Sony originally came into the console industry because they were working with Nintendo on a CD based console. That got nowhere so they took it on alone and never looked back, i hardly call that bulldozing. In fact Sony took marketing by the balls and shook things up considerably, it was playing WipEout with a licenced soundtrack of wicked music that really got me back into games, oh and that bit in Resident Evil when the dogs burst through the window! ;)

  • Hicksy #39 7 years ago

    MS really have wielded out their size 17 shoes on this one haven't they O_O

  • drumbaby #40 7 years ago

    For me it was my first steps into the corridor in Alien Trilogy...and seeing the T Rex in Tomb Raider.

  • Rusta #41 7 years ago

    Anyone have an idea how much it will cost? if they screw up like the realease of xbox 1 at 3 times it costs now I wont get one for years.

    I'm on the ferge of buying another xbox for the live fun, but now I'm not sure what to do....

  • moggsy #42 7 years ago

    I wonder if they're going to charge a ridiculous price for it and then drop it a month later like they did with the Xbox 1.

  • space_ace #43 7 years ago

    xbox 2 is just a blue xbox 1

  • Lovemoose #44 7 years ago

    "Chevrolet actually......

    /wanker mode off"

    forgiven - thanks for the correction.... ;)

    Did sony bulldoze the PS1 into the market? perhaps that's the wrong kind of term. They certainly used their marketing expertise and cash reserves to help them find a way in. Better known "pure games" companies have tried and failed...

    The problem I have here is not about specifics, it's about people bashing "company A", when all they're doing is what any other business would do under the circumstances; ie: given enough cash, "company b" would do the same thing, as they're a business, and that's what they do.

    Is xbox2 coming early a good thing? from the point of view of the health of the industry, no it isn't. From the point of view of microsoft moving their own business on, unquestionably it is.

    I'd prefer not to see console wars at all, but in an industry as big as it is nowadays, the moneymen in suits are the driving force, and we'll just have to keep our heads down and hope good games are still made, whatever platform they appear on. (I'm looking at you here EA.)

  • Feanor #45 7 years ago

    "xbox 2 is just a blue xbox 1"

    LOL.

  • Eighthours #46 7 years ago

    Some kind of trade-in system for those with Xboxes? To give money off Xbox 2 launch price, and unannoy those who are annoyed with the shortness of the first machine's lifespan? I'm sure Microsoft will think of some way to pacify such critics.

  • tengu #47 7 years ago

    Oh man, Xbox 1 was shite enough, now they're squeezing out turd number 2 already?

    That's a lot of shit.

  • drumbaby #48 7 years ago

    They should make the Xbox plug into the Xbox 2, possibly just a big hole in the Xbox 2 case, so you can run the AV lead from Xbox 1, through Xbox 2, and into your telly.

    Presto, instant backwards compatability.

  • boo #49 7 years ago

    Great!
    I think there'll still be plenty of developers pushing Xbox 1 titles for a while yet. Plus it may well force the price of the hardware down even more over the coming months - I'd love to get a second Xbox just to mess about with it and chav it up with a clear case and lights etc (purely for ironic effect).

    And whether MS are ready, trying to get a jump on Sony or whatever...

    I get a buzz out of stuff like hardware launches!
    Midnight openings, getting the box home and pulling all the bits and bobs out, switching it on for the first time.

    It's videogaming y'know...? Fun?

  • #50 7 years ago

    Why is this seemingly the only site with this 'news'.


    I say again... this is bullshit... Eurogamer has been had...
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 15:49

  • Blerk #51 7 years ago

    It's not just Eurogamer. MCV has it on their site, so do C&VG. And that's just the two I checked in ten seconds.

  • Eighthours #52 7 years ago

    Djini in "talks utter bollocks" shocker. Why don't you just go away if you're never going to say anything with even a shred of evidence to back it up?

  • Feanor #53 7 years ago

    Man, Djini, you're coming across as a real wanker is a number of threads.

  • HarryB #54 7 years ago

    I kinda like how MS are doing this, if it's out early they can have plenty of time to fix anything people are pissed off about before the new Sony or Nintendo consoles come out

    which can end up with a much better experience with the console.... just because it's coming out so soon doesn't mean you have to buy it

    I'm probably (for the 1st time ever) gonna wait for the new Sony offering at least to come out and then see how MS is doing at that stage... if it's being hailed as the OMFGODZORZ then I will most likely get it

    As long as it looks sexy


    also gotta be happy that for once we don't get left in the dark... we get a simultaneous launch!
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 15:57

  • ruttyboy #55 7 years ago

    Djini, it's not shit, trust me.

  • #56 7 years ago

    Eighthours... I done a search about 2 1/2 hours ago (shortly after EG first broke this news), no-one else was reporting it... What do you want me to do?

    If fact type your answer to that question, print it out in 50 point font, then shove it up your ass... 'cause I don't care :). Because I'm not checking this every second gives you no rights to being a wanker (newsflash).
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 16:03

  • #57 7 years ago

    "Djini, it's not shit, trust me. "

    Fair enough... Maybe maybe... But 2 1/2 hours ago, it was only EG that I found, everyone else was doing their usual 'figner in air' speculation...

    Do a google news search and sort it by date... See the 'gap' and timings... Also look at 'who heard it off who'... Who are the independant reporters in this other than EG?
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 16:12

  • phAge #58 7 years ago

    So far, MS has (IMO) done a pretty good job with the Xbox: finding out what gamers want, and providing it in spades.

    While this announcement *is* rather strange and unexpected, I see no reason why MS shouldnt continue delivering the goods.

  • ralphwolfenstein #59 7 years ago

    Djini - it was in MCV this morning

    And it's not exactly a surprise either

  • PeterKnowle #60 7 years ago

    >So would any company with a big cash bucket. It's not restricted to this >industry;

    However Sony had a reasonable expectation it would make a profit on the PS1

    Microsoft bulldozed in, without worry of having to make a profit. In fact it has such large cash reserves that it could make a huge loss on Xbox 2 ... Xbox 3 and on and on and keep going.

    In fact it can just keep going on and on until a competitor makes a mistake. They all do eventually. Even Sony. Microsoft on the other hand can make as many mistakes as it likes and its Windows monopoly cash pile can just keep bailing it out. Any other company would have killed Xbox or withdrawn on the cumulative losses its made to date.


  • Blerk #61 7 years ago

    Heh. Everyone knows that Spong gets the 'exclusives' on everything weeks earlier because they just make it up and hope it's right. I note they fail to point out all their other 'exclusives' that turned out to be bullshit....

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #62 7 years ago

    Oh gosh, Spong have uncovered a dark secret!

  • phAge #63 7 years ago

    SPONG is full of shit. Remember the "Forza will only run at 20 FPS"-"shocker" - which they´d supposedly gotten from Gamerfeed. Whose only article on Forza was one of praise - and a special mention to the rock-solid 30 FPS....
    Edited by 1 at 11/02/05 @ 16:38

  • Royal Fool #64 7 years ago

    I think it would be in Microsoft's best interest to slash the price of the Xbox soon. A price cut would certainly make the poor people that buy a new Xbox less angry when they see the next-generation Xbox 360 in stores...

  • Eighthours #65 7 years ago

    Eighthours... I done a search about 2 1/2 hours ago (shortly after EG first broke this news), no-one else was reporting it... What do you want me to do?

    If fact type your answer to that question, print it out in 50 point font, then shove it up your ass... 'cause I don't care :). Because I'm not checking this every second gives you no rights to being a wanker (newsflash).

    As already mentioned, it was on MCV and countless forums this morning. And I think most people have the opinion that it's you who's acting like the wanker in most threads at the mo.

  • drumbaby #66 7 years ago

    "Microsoft bulldozed in, without worry of having to make a profit. In fact it has such large cash reserves that it could make a huge loss on Xbox 2 ... Xbox 3 and on and on and keep going. "

    On that basis then they should move into making cars, clothes, fridges, swimming pools and settees. They may not be making them any money on any of it, but at least they'll be losing some!

  • teabagger #67 7 years ago

    " Oh man, Xbox 1 was shite enough, now they're squeezing out turd number 2 already?

    That's a lot of shit. "


    Wow, you really are quite narrow minded even by the pretty low standards on here.

  • #68 7 years ago

    "SPONG is full of shit. Remember the "Forza will only run at 20 FPS"-"shocker" - which they´d supposedly gotten from Gamerfeed. Whose only article on Forza was one of praise - and a special mention to the rock-solid 30 FPS.... "

    At last! We've found someone who knows less than ME!!!!

    /wipes brow.. that was close!

  • Feanor #69 7 years ago

    Djini, you have just been ignored.

  • tengu #70 7 years ago

    Teabagger, you calling someone narrow minded is the pot calling the kettle black.

  • ssuellid #71 7 years ago

    Half terms next week?

  • Royal Fool #72 7 years ago

    at last - bye bye sony. how we'll miss your incompentence. at least you'll be able to share a drink with sega. be sure to keep room for nintendo too.

    So you can see into the future, I take it? of course you can.

  • AnotherMartin #73 7 years ago

    Hmm this is going to be an interesting one to watch!

    Personaly I think it's a mistake on MS' part and that it really isn't going to do them any favours. But we'll see.

  • Khab #74 7 years ago

    Heh. There I was this very afternoon telling a customer the Xbox might be out in the US for Xmas, but surely not here. :) If this is indeed correct (and I reckon MS will at least try for it), then I must admit I tend to agree with AM - they're running an awful risk of doing a Dreamcast and being shoved aside by the hype-machine as an older system...

  • RobTheBuilder #75 7 years ago

    They have to find the right balance between Dreamcast and PS2!

    Will the fact that most launch games are graphically improved xbox games hinder it though?

  • RobTheBuilder #76 7 years ago

    Agreed.

    Good to hear news from Nintendo bigwigs that Europe is more important now though.

    This early release date has double my likelihood of buying an Xbox2.

  • elchuppa #77 7 years ago

    good timing, well and truly done with ps2 & xbox games. I need better graphics and higher res asap.

    .graphics whore.

  • Ravenlore #78 7 years ago

    I think this is a big mistake.

    But MS in its desprate Move needed something!!!

    Still the bulk of players now are Casual gamers. HC gamers will get XboX and PS3 when it launches and because PS3 will be the most powerful the HC gamers will get PS3 games over XboX games like they get XboX games over PS2 games now!!

  • BartonFink #79 7 years ago

    Hmmm interesting comments, well except for the tards.

    Personally I think this is a really big mistake by MS. Unless they are going to have full backward compatibility and the specs are going to blow everything else out of the water with the assumption that they have the best launch line-up ever known to man. If they nail all of those things then maybe it might work. I don't hold much hope though.

    One thing they may be relying on is that Sony are hopeless at decent launch titles. and people might just be starting to cop on to it. They are also hopeless at sticking to the specs. However two things Sony excel at is marketing and buying exclusivity deals. If MS can nick a few of those then they may pull some of the mainstream massive into their clutches.

    Again I still think this is a big mistake.

  • Master Cheif #80 7 years ago

    ummm before u guys make any assumptions we don't actually know if backwards compatability is not on Xbox 2, neither do we know the specs, what it looks like, wat launch titles are, i think we should wait till E3 to make any judgements on this machine, afterallMS might be holding something back to suprise gamers, and the reason why its released sooooo early is to try and get an advantage over PS3 (like Sony had over them in PS2 vs Xbox) so give it a little time guys, who knows it could be crap? or it could have good innovative ideas. And yes i do know i spelt my screename wrong

  • BartonFink #81 7 years ago

    tbh I seriously don't think that lack of backward compatibility has never hurt anybody just look at Nintendo ... Errr

    Here are my predicted specs
    Media - Blu-Ray
    Processors - 2+ Power? 3Ghz+
    Graphics Processors - ATI
    Memory - 256Mb at least
    HDD - yes

  • freedumb #82 7 years ago

    I still think this is a wind-up. Even if its not, shouldn't we wait for an official announcement before switching to kneejerk-mode?

    *left hand shakily fumbles kneejerk switch, right hand slaps it and tells it to wait for official announcement*
    Edited by 1 at 12/02/05 @ 12:53

  • teabagger #83 7 years ago

    tengu: Well done mate, yet another well thought out comment.

  • teabagger #84 7 years ago

    OMG!!!111!!exclamationmark! ur sooo haXX0r!

    and wrong. wrong in the extreme. who are you anyway with an unregistered name like that? fuck off.
    Edited by 1 at 12/02/05 @ 16:26

  • #85 7 years ago

    another one?*sigh*think i'll stick with ps2

  • Flowmax #86 7 years ago

    actually guys if u want to get a good ps2 deal goto HMV or VIRGIN. there is a ps2 value pack there.it contains a ps2 controller, 8mb magic gate memory card and a dvd remote for just £29.99. thats an amazing offer. im buying a ps2 slimline next month for

    onimusha 3
    devil may cry 3
    God of war
    MGS 3
    Tekken 5 (although im a strong DOA supporter)

  • Genji #87 7 years ago

    "Why would you wait? Because you have a PS2 or GameCube and feel you must be loyal to the company?"

    For many people, that might actually be a 'yes' to the second question. Not for me, however. I stopped being loyal to Nintendo after I sold my N64 and bought a Dreamcast. That one failed, despite it having quite a lead over the PS2 - its competition was the PSX, and the DC lost miserably. My point? The next XBox (if it is released later this year) will not be without competition, even if it is competition from the current-gen PS2.

  • struddie #88 7 years ago

    "By launching first they get all this time to convince current non-xbox owners to buy the next console without any real competition from another next-gen."

    Surely anyone who doesn't own an X-Box already isn't going to be interested in next-gen just yet, look at the product life cycle.

  • mash the x button #89 7 years ago

    It's a market. If you want to buy it, go ahead. If not, don't. Same with all the others. Just don't bore me with all the fan boy crap.

  • Yaz #90 7 years ago

    "But I do agree with what a few people have already said, the next generation is being ushered in far too early."

    I really don't get this point of view to be honest. This current generation began with the launch of the PS2 in Japan during March 2000!!! 5 years and 4 months after the Japanese launch of the original Playstation (December 1994). Next month will be 5 YEARS since the PS2 launch.

    Xbox came late into this generation, why should it arrive late for the next?

    Hence a late October launch of Xenon seems right on time to me (5 years and 7 months after the Japanese PS2 launch, exactly 5 years after the US PS2 launch).

    How is that early again?

    Personally, I'm looking forward to it, and can't wait for E3 (for all the next gen console news). :)

  • Pirotic #91 7 years ago

    It's rushed from a hardware point of view, but from what i hear some third partys have had games in development for the xbox2 for ages now, Bizzare creations, Rare, TeamNinja - thats 3 great launch titles already.

    I do worry that the machine will end up being so underpowered compared to the Revolution and PS3 that its considered a generational stop-gap much like the Dreamcast, rather than a fully fledged next-gen console - and that could cost them.
    Edited by 1 at 13/02/05 @ 17:55

  • Yaz #92 7 years ago

    "It's rushed from a hardware point of view....I do worry that the machine will end up being so underpowered compared to the Revolution and PS3 that its considered a generational stop-gap much like the Dreamcast"

    And you see, this is what I don't get. If we are to believe the rumours, XBox2 will launch October/November this year, PS3 around March next year (in Japan), that's ONLY 4-5 months difference!!! If we were talking about one whole year, then yes I could accept such arguements, but not for just 4-5 months.

    Also, bear in mind that XBox2 will feature the latest GPU technology from ATI which has yet to appear on the PC, and PS3 will ALSO feature the latest GPU technology which has yet to appear on the PC, this time from nVidia. As we all know, ATI & nVidia are VERY close to each other in terms of GPU technology/performance, so it's fair to assume their next GPUs will be similar in terms of performance too. Hence I expect there will not be much difference between the XBox2 GPU and PS3 GPU. (Those interested about nVidia's GPU for the PS3 will find the following interview very informative - http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/displa y/ces2005.html)

    Regarding the CPUs, well putting hype aside for one moment, I don't expect that much difference here either ("WTF! Are you crazy man?" says all the CELL evangelists ;)). That said, the technology is such that I'd expect CELL to be better than IBM's XBox2 CPU for some tasks, but worse for others. How this turns out remains to be seen of course. Overall, it will probably balance out.

    So to summarize my point, the XBox2 releasing in 2005 and the PS3 in 2006 is not a 1 year gap in technology, it's not old technology vs new technology, it's not rushed vs delayed, it's just XBox2 being ready before PS3 and therefore launching first.

    Everything points to XBox2 & PS3 being incredible machines, but not much between them in terms of power. Revolution will probably be 'slightly' less powerful overall, since the enthasist for Nintendo is to offer something different.

    Still, after E3, we'll have a better idea. I can't wait :)
    Edited by 4 at 13/02/05 @ 19:21

  • andrewfromdoncaster #93 7 years ago

    Given that we think Xenon and Revolution will both be ATI powered, i would bet on them both using the same GPU - the difference in launch times will make it fit into nintendo's budget

  • teabagger #94 7 years ago

    As gamers we've never had it so good I reckon. My only worry is that the quality of the launch software will suffer as a result of MS and Sony trying to upstage each other with the new hardware and loosing sight of what really matters. Particularly with what feels like an early launch for both of them, they really are going to need some killer apps early on to prove to the public the upgrade is worthwhile.

    STFU: I find your post quite ironic given that it's the only contribution of yours to the entire thread. You're a one trick pony mate, and I really can't be bothered with you any more.

  • Yaz #95 7 years ago

    "Xbox came late, but is leaving EARLY. It's not staying the course. PS2 (like PSOne) had a good long innings, built up a huge user-base, and PS3 will come when the time is right, not at some premature juncture."

    The general view of console launches is that each generation lasts about 5 years! That's how it's been in the past, and that's how I see it continuing in future.

    Microsoft is starting this generation at the right time. Yes, I know it's early for the XBox, about 1 year early, but either you decide to be late AGAIN, or you try to build on your momentum and make sure you're there for the start of the next gen.

    Look at Nintendo's N64, launched almost 1 year after the Playstation. Remember what happened? And did Nintendo decide to close the gap with their next console, the Gamecube? No, they actually INCREASED it to a gap of 17 months (launching in Aug 2001 in Japan). Did the Gamecube benefit from this gap? No, quite the opposite in fact.

    Now look to the future, do you think for one moment that Nintendo are going to make that same mistake again? Do you think Revolution is going to launch 1 year to 1.5 years after PS3? No way is that going to happen (as the E3 announcement will confirm), so if Nintendo don't intend to be late AGAIN, why should Microsoft?

    "Why are you relating Xenon's early launch to the PS2's US launch"

    To show that it's on time for NEXT generation. I am NOT claiming the XBox has had a full run this generation, I'm not claiming it hasn't been cut short, I'm responding to the arguement that 'the next generation is being ushered in far too early'.

    "Look at the end total of Xbox users come October. 20 million, if that. That's not the product of a good long shelf life, surely? 80-90 million, now that's more like it."

    Oh sure, MS and Nintendo should wait until they reach 80-90 million too before launching their next consoles. [rolleyes]

    "How is that the right time of 5 years for the Msoft console?"

    For the answers, see above! :)

    You seem to go with the view that Xenon/XBox2 should launch November 2006 at the earliest (i.e. 5 years after the XBox). But do you REALLY believe this would be benefitial to Microsoft? History has shown that this is NOT a wise decision. And even if you use the arguement that it would give them more time to produce a more powerful console, well if XBox's 20 month difference wasn't enough, then 7-8 months is nothing. Certainly not enough to slow Sony's momentum with the PS3.

    So I'm all for the 'early' Xenon release. I'll let history decide whether it was a wise decision from Microsoft, and for me, I'll just play the games. :)
    Edited by 4 at 13/02/05 @ 21:02

  • RobTheBuilder #96 7 years ago

    I think PS3 will inevitably have more power... but only if Sony pay for it or put the price up.

    The new nature of the Cell chip is likely to mean that it will be at least 2nd Gen software before we see its real potential, whereas xbox2 should in theory be more accessible at the word go.

  • #97 7 years ago

    So... No new news over the weekend and nothing official from MS?

  • Blerk #98 7 years ago

    Official? From Microsoft? You gotta be kidding! :-)

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, was thinking about this some more over the weekend and I still can't think of any reason why this is a good idea. It's still seeming like a very big gamble...

    Think of it this way:
    Launching before Christmas might seem like a great idea. But... Xbox2 will be a 'premium product' - i.e. still quite expensive. Sony is likely to counter that with a 'dirt-cheap' PS2 for its last Christmas as the 'headline' machine. That would mean there would be a very good chance that the PS2 could outsell Xbox2 in the holiday season... a potential embarassment, n'est pas?

    I think people will wait. Not because they're loyal to Sony or Nintendo, but because it 'feels' too early for a new machine, and they'll want to weigh up the competition before indulging.

  • #99 7 years ago

    Well I'm finding it very hard to debate any of this (Expectially this 'news' of a 2005 release) because there are so few *facts*...

    Are they still intending to release 3 different types of XBOX (Console, Media Center etc)?

    I've heard so much and so many things about xbox and PS3, I'm having trouble separating facts...

  • toy_brain #100 7 years ago

    Y'know, I've been really apathetic towards the 'next gen' consoles for a while now. I just dont feel the same excitement about Xbox2/PS3/Revolution as I did when the DC and PS2 came out.

    Mabye its because the Saturn/PSone/N64 were all very rough 'first stabs' at doing 3D, and the following generation of consoles were the first to really produce solid, polished 3D graphics.
    After that, its all just a case of further refining and tweaks.

    Mabye I'm just being narrow-minded here, but the only genre I can really see benefitting in any major way is the Dynasty Warriors one - where you need loads of high-poly characters onscreen at once. Other than that, it'll just be a case of increasing poly-counts and texture detail here and there for a small visual gain, and frankly, I'm perfectly happy with the visuals of games like Jak3, Transformers and Ninja Gaiden.

    But I'll no doubt still end up buying the Xbox2 soon after its UK launch - I'm just like that.

    *Shrugs*

  • Blerk #101 7 years ago

    Are they still intending to release 3 different types of XBOX (Console, Media Center etc)?

    I think that was only ever an unofficial rumour. I'd be amazed if they actually followed through on that plan - it'd be suicide!

  • Blerk #102 7 years ago

    Halo?

  • #103 7 years ago

    "I think that was only ever an unofficial rumour. I'd be amazed if they actually followed through on that plan - it'd be suicide! "

    You see, that was one thing I was really hoping FOR. I would have been tempted to get the 'Media Center' edition of an xbox, but would have waited of course to find out if it would record TV while playing games (my existing PC Media Center Edition lets me play HL2 while recording TV). I'd REQUIRE that functionality before I'd buy a MC-XBOX to replace my *existing* setup...

  • Kengro #104 7 years ago

    Hmm. As far as i see we don't know a shit bout none of the next gen machines.
    So it's far to early to tell anything, there's nothing official about a shit regarding the next gen.
    Is it to early to realese in late 2005?? Nah acually not, it depends on the price of the machine. BUT we haven't got a realese date from ms, so we will have to wait and see

  • teabagger #105 7 years ago

    "They've made it clear their motives are profit..."

    Because presumably then Sony and Nintendo are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts? Of course they're doing it for profit the same as everyone else, that's the nature of being a business.


    "If you took out Microsoft from the equation, what would we lose? Think about it."

    We'd lose Sonys primary competition. From a consumer perspective, competition is a good thing. It drives the market forward, drives technology developments, reduces costs to the consumer. Without competition the consumer pays more and gets less. Even if you have an irrational hate of MS and their 'box and would only every buy Sony you still benefit from their presence in the market.

  • BartonFink #106 7 years ago

    Hmm 3 flavours of Xbox2, nah will never happen.

    Blerko - what if now only what if it launches with an incredible list of launch titles what say you then? It should, as you know and keep telling us, be all about the games. ;)

  • #107 7 years ago

    "if it launches with an incredible list of launch titles"
    Add to that
    If the price is 'right'.
    If the console is truly 'next gen'.
    If the 'hardware is reliable'.
    If the 'console is smaller' (and the controllers).
    If 'insert complaint' is fixed.

    Example: This quote from November 2004.

    "A SLIDE from a non disclosure agreement (NDA) presentation seen by the INQ points towards Microsoft launching three versions of the Xbox 2, one of which is a fully functioning PC."
    http://www .cdfreaks.com/news2.php?ID=10901

    Without the announcement... It's just a bunch of 'ifs'.
    Have we even got an *official confirmed* 'Spec', game lineup, release date, PRICE? In short... What do we KNOW...?
    Edited by 1 at 14/02/05 @ 12:01

  • BartonFink #108 7 years ago

    and that's exactly the point it's up against Sony!

    At the launch of the PS2 way back when
    If the price is 'right'. - No way
    If the console is truly 'next gen'. Kinda
    If the 'hardware is reliable'. God no
    If the 'console is smaller' (and the controllers). Nope the same tired old terrible Dual Shocks
    If 'insert complaint' is fixed. Where do you start

    And yet it still sold in buckets at launch. Why? Because it's Sony and Sony do marketing like no other!
    That's what MS are up against ....

  • Blerk #109 7 years ago

    Blerko - what if now only what if it launches with an incredible list of launch titles what say you then? It should, as you know and keep telling us, be all about the games. ;)

    It should be all about the games. But it isn't, is it? :-)

    Regardless, I have absolutely no confidence in ANY of the big players launching with a bundle of titles which appeal to me. Because I'm such a miserable sod. ;-)

  • BartonFink #110 7 years ago

    Ok Blerk what if it launched with something like
    Kameo Elements of Power or something along the lines of Tales of Symphonia or Disgea. What would you say then?

    And yea you are a misserable bast!

  • andrewfromdoncaster #111 7 years ago

    I think that was only ever an unofficial rumour. I'd be amazed if they actually followed through on that plan - it'd be suicide!

    Disagree. I think it'd be brilliant so long as all games were made by the lowest common denominator

  • Yaz #112 7 years ago

    "Without competition the consumer pays more and gets less. Even if you have an irrational hate of MS and their 'box and would only every buy Sony you still benefit from their presence in the market"

    Exactly! :)

  • Blerk #113 7 years ago

    Ok Blerk what if it launched with something like
    Kameo Elements of Power or something along the lines of Tales of Symphonia or Disgea. What would you say then?

    Well, Kameo I can definitely live without - Rare haven't done anything to interest me since Alien 8. :-)

    The other things I would be interested in, yes. But equally the Xbox2 would be staying on the shelf until I'd seen Sony and Nintendo's offerings, if only because their release would likely trigger a price cut for the Xbox2 hardware.

    You'd have to be mad (or rich) to plump for the first machine to hit the market. Sit tight, weigh up the competition, play the dozens of games you've no doubt not gotten around to playing on your current platform while you wait.

  • Blerk #114 7 years ago

    I think it'd be brilliant so long as all games were made by the lowest common denominator

    And therefore the games would be held back by the lowest common denominator, the 'better' platforms would never realise their full potential and would be rendered almost pointless. Add into that customer confusion (which one should I buy? I have no idea) and you've got an idea that's dead in the water before you've even launched. It won't happen.

  • #115 7 years ago

    Blerk. I think this could be a different case. the 'enhanced MCXBOX (if it exists) would add extra features that make no difference to gaming, but add extra functionality to Watching/recording TV. So games written for the lowest version of an xbox would still push the MCXBOX just as hard. You're buying an extra set of function not relating to games.

    Hope that makes sense.

  • drumbaby #116 7 years ago

    I'm sitting tight until all 3 machines are out, and with a good few games each.

    Something tells me that games releases for PS2/ PC and even GCN will keep me amused until I can make an informed decision either way.

  • Yaz #117 7 years ago

    "I think that was only ever an unofficial rumour. I'd be amazed if they actually followed through on that plan - it'd be suicide!"

    Yep, just a rumour, but still possible I feel, but not in the way some suggest.

    If there are 3 versions of the XBox2, I suspect this would be related to HD capacity only, and for the purposes of user data.

    Take the current XBox for example. For the vast majority of XBox gamers, most of the HD space remains unused. Only a very small minority of gamers have actually filled the space with thousands of MP3 files (or by copying games to their modded XBox).

    Now the XBox HD is split into 3 partitions, one for save game data and downloads, one for user data (i.e. mp3 files) and the other as a 'scratch' area for games to use (which is wiped every time you switch on the XBox).

    Therefore it would have been possible to have XBox's with different HD sizes too, say 5Gb, 10Gb and 15Gb. In each model, the two partitions available to game developers would be exactly the same size (one for save games/downloads the other as a scratch area). The remaining space would be available to the gamer for their own data (such as mp3 files).

    So from a developer's perspective, EVERY XBox would be the same, but from the gamers perspective, they have enough HD to suit their needs.

    Expanding on this further, every XBox could have had a minimum 5Gb HD (as above), where gamers could increase the space available with a HD add-on (5Gb & 10Gb models). Again, each XBox would be exactly the same for developers, but XBox gamers will only pay for the space they need. This would have the advantage of lowering the manufacturing cost of each XBox for MS (5Gb HD instead of 8-10Gb), and adding to their profits with the sale of HD add-ons.

    Additionally, for gamers with an XBox on the same network as their PC, you could make it possible for them to transfer files between the XBox and PC, therefore offering an alternative to the HD add-on.

    Of course, this didn't happen with the XBox, but it's the kind of approach I believe MS could be taking with XBox2/Xenon. That is, have a minimum amount of storage space in each console (making each model the same from a developers point of view), but offering gamers a range of options to suit their storage space needs (including options I haven't thought of yet).

    It seems to make sence to me, but maybe that's just me. :)

    We'll know soon enough.
    Edited by 1 at 14/02/05 @ 14:21

  • teabagger #118 7 years ago

    With any new technology you have your early adoptors and then the 'mass market' who are happy to sit back and wait.

  • mash the x button #119 7 years ago

    "11/11/05: Halo 3. ;)"

    What a cynic!

  • Yaz #120 7 years ago

    Great. Thanks for that info redzors.

    I was recalling information I read early 2001 before the XBox was launched. No doubt, since then, the XBox hardware has been probed, hacked, modded etc, and so accurate information is available today. :)

    My point was just to show that, contrary to some beliefs, an XBox2 with multiple disk options doesn't effect game developement in any way at all, since there is no common lowest denominator as suggested. All consoles will be the same for running games, except for the space available for user files.

    Thanks again for the info (I shall now update my mental database ;)).
    Edited by 1 at 14/02/05 @ 21:23

  • #121 7 years ago

    "And whats all that jibberish of an xbox media center edition, the freeware XBOX MEDIA CENTER truly makes a modded xbox shine, it even streams movie trailers from quictime.com and gametrailers from gamespot.com, plays all your divx from the HD or through the network and even tells you hows the weather... i'de like to see microsoft beat that. "

    You've SEEN the Microsoft Windows Media Center Edition 2005 right? The one that was released last year. It also (while allowing all the things you've listed) gives you time-warp for LIVE TV broardcasts, acts as a TiVO, lets you use Instant Messenger, buy and download songs.

    The 'supposed' XBOX2 MCE should (idealy) give you this without having to 'mod' it... At least, that's the hope...

  • #122 7 years ago

    Feel better now you've got that off your chest Shader?

    Good...

  • IronGiant #123 7 years ago

    From what i've read it's IBM themselves that are generating hype about the Cell much more than Sony.

  • Lutz #124 7 years ago

    Some bloody good points though.

  • #125 7 years ago

    "Some bloody good points though. " true, except the last bit:

    "The console with the most interesting games will NOT persevere. The console with the PERCEIVED technological lead will win."

    I think it'll be the 'best' BRAND that'll make the 'winning' console, not the games, or the technology... That'll mean Sony... again...

  • andrewfromdoncaster #126 7 years ago


    And therefore the games would be held back by the lowest common denominator, the 'better' platforms would never realise their full potential and would be rendered almost pointless. Add into that customer confusion (which one should I buy? I have no idea) and you've got an idea that's dead in the water before you've even launched. It won't happen.

    Youre missing the point that i'm trying to make. The base model xbox will be purely for games - it will fulfil the brief of being a great gaming machine. The rest of the models will just have upgraded functionality that is exogenous of gaming - a greater sized harddrive for instance, or a DVD burner. Having these features won't make games be held back at all - all games will be compatible with the base model, and the rest will offer non-console functions or extra functions. That isn't games being held back by the common denominator in any way

  • Blerk #127 7 years ago

    Fair enough. I still think they could only possibly manage two models at most, though. And that 'basic' model just has to have a hard drive. Has to.

  • savant #128 7 years ago

    My predictions:

    - Xbox will launch this year, ready for Christmas. Microsoft have said time and again that they will *not* let Sony release first, and developers have had the alpha dev-kits for quite a while now, so there should be plenty of launch titles.
    - They will launch in Japan, and fail again. More Japanese devs will be on board.
    - They will try to buy an exclusivity agreement with Tecmo. Or purchase the studio.
    - Launch titles will include Project Gotham Racing 3, at least one Rare title, DOA4 and Halo 2: eXtreme Edition.
    - Sony will respond to the launch with a PS2 price cut and bundle.
    - There will be at least two editions of the new Xbox hardware: one pure gaming machine with high-capacity flash memory instead of a hard drive; a media-centre edition, with TiVo functionality, beefy hard drive and all the capabilities of the gaming machine; and possibly a full-fledged PC with Windows running under emulation on the PPC architecture.
    - Controllers will work on PCs (possibly with an adapter). Ports on the new box will be USB-2 or custom derivative.
    - Xbox Live will get a serious facelift, including the ability to watch games played by other people as a spectator (a job ad at MS hinted at this a while back).
    - You will be able to play Xbox and Xbox 2 games with your Live subscription.
    - Live subs will rise, but this may happen before the launch.
    - Microsoft will still produce games for the original Xbox. They would be stupid to ignore the 20 million-strong userbase for a start, but, contrary to public opinion, they actually treat us gamers pretty well, too. (As an early adopter, I got two games, a controller and a DVD remote when MS reduced the price of the console over here.)
    - Prices of new games will start off £5 more expensive, but will quickly come down to the same levels we have now.
    - When Sony release the PS3, Microsoft will reduce the price of the Xbox successor by £50-£100. It will remain significantly cheaper than the new Sony machine.
    - I will still be boycotting EA Games titles ;)

    Enough crystal ball gazing! I'm looking forward to seeing what the new machine is capable of and I just wish people around these parts weren't so damned cynical. I'm also eager to see what the PS3 and Revolution can conjure up!

  • drumbaby #129 7 years ago

    I think PS3 will launch at a lowish price that'll force Msoft into a really unpalatably (for them) low price drop...if undercutting PS3 at launch is indeed their strategy.

    Sony did it with PSP, surprising everyone, not least Ninty. They're probably aggressive enough to do it again with PS3.

  • RobTheBuilder #130 7 years ago

    Sony HAD to do it with PSP to stop Nintendo getting a runaway lead.
    They dont want to take a $50-100 hit on every unit!

    But with all the custom chips and "supposed" power, PS3 may launch at a higher price. After all, PS2 maintains a higher price now despite being clearly underpowered compared to Cube and Xbox.

  • thegamemaster #131 7 years ago

    I think that this is great that microsoft is working hard on developing the xbox 2 cause it will probably be better if they take there time on making the xbox 2.