Test Drive 360 Euro price due to market conditions - Atari

By Tom Bramwell Published 31 July, 2006

Not possible to match $39.99.

The significant difference between US and European pricing of Test Drive Unlimited is down to differences in installed bases and local pricing, Atari has said.

"The price in the US reflects the local Xbox 360 market situation", a spokesperson told Eurogamer today, primarily referring to the massive difference in the relative installed base sizes.

Earlier this month the company revealed that the US version of TDU on Xbox 360 would retail for $39.99, but subsequently admitted that the UK price was £49.99 - although actual high street and e-commerce prices will likely fall between £40 and £50.

"Additionally the US has a significantly larger Xbox 360 installed base, with a much bigger Xbox Live Gold membership," the spokesperson added.

In other words, it's possible for Atari to release a 360 game in the US at a lower-than-usual price and still make a decent return, but it simply isn't the same for them over here.

"Innovation should be available to everyone, not a privilege for those can afford high price tags," Atari CEO Bruno Bonnell said when the company announced the US price point. Perhaps it was a cry for help as much as anything.

Test Drive Unlimited is due out on Xbox 360, PC, PS2 and PSP later this year.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (101) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • morriss #1 6 years ago

    Utter bollocks, imo.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #2 6 years ago

    If I didn't want that game that bad I would be upset, at least a bit. But actually, I don't care. I just want that game.

  • lambtron #3 6 years ago

    We pay (on average) double or more than double ("cheap" option of 40 quid off online retailer = 75 bucks). Ouch.

  • Pirotic #4 6 years ago

    Due to market conditions - the conditions being that we've always been shafted on price and put up with it. Just don't buy it and it'll soon be in the bargin bin.

  • Arnold__ #5 6 years ago

    This stinks of TopSpin 2. Atari will make sure that this thing is not region free. So, the same game cost $40 in the US and $91 in the UK these days?

    I would like to see the cost structure, because these games are physically made in China anyway, and they all have the same sunk costs. Differences can only be due to more expensive European distribution and marketing costs and translation but not to the point where a game costs more than twice as much.

    Gamers should send a clear message and not buy this. It boils down to the following. Why are they charging twice as much? Why does a dog lick its balls? Beause they can!



  • djchump #6 6 years ago

    I haven't liked Atari for a long time now - for a good while their QA standards seemed shoddy as hell; I found a lot of their games incredibly buggy and I came to associate the Atari brand with poor quality.
    I dunno what their games are like now though, as I've avoided them like the plague for the last year or so :-)
    But releasing a game at effectively a budget price point in one region, but full price in another? That's bullshit.
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 10:39

  • BEAR-ONE #7 6 years ago

    Dont buy it. If they treat European customers with such blatant disrespect, they dont deserve our hard earned €,$,£.

  • Krun #8 6 years ago

    Good job I thought the Demo was a bit rubbish then.

  • jlaakso #9 6 years ago

    I don't really care what the "market situation" is like: US gamers getting games at considerably lower prices than us Europeans stinks.

    Not much of a surprise, really. The "budget priced" Table Tennis is 50€ in Finland ($62).

  • alimokrane #10 6 years ago

    What a load ! Just be honest and tell us that you want the money cauz you're in financial trouble. I, for one wont be buying the game for double the price!
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 10:42

  • HarryB #11 6 years ago

    this is bollocks, why say innovation should be available to everyone...£50 is stupid and i never pay it

  • glaeken #12 6 years ago

    Well it will be £39.99 in Tesco's as all new 360 releases are. I don't buy 360 games anywhere else now. Please take note Game and all the other dedicated games stores who are loosing my business due to maintaining the unrealistic £49.99 price point. It's time to open the door to Ronnie Real.

    It's still a rip off though given the US price is in Dollar's.

  • gizmo #13 6 years ago

    I buy from Gameplay anyway, so my games cost £39.99.

    We are very different markets and its a commercial decision.

    I was going to get the game anyway after the demo, so it really doesn't matter to me if they pay £1 or £100.

  • alimokrane #14 6 years ago

    So 3 million 360s in the US and 1.6 Million 360s in europe according to microsoft and hence the price of the game has to follow this ie europe pays 50% more ... if that's the way Atari's accountants thought about it then no wonder they are in financial trouble. you can **** the game up your ***
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 10:49

  • dbeamish #15 6 years ago

    Atari - blow it out your arse.

  • MaxiSleep #16 6 years ago

    Gizmo said

    "I buy from Gameplay anyway, so my games cost £39.99.

    We are very different markets and its a commercial decision.

    I was going to get the game anyway after the demo, so it really doesn't matter to me if they pay £1 or £100.
    ignore poster"

    Enjoy the Atari Xmas bash. Should be well funded...

  • smoison #17 6 years ago

    What a great way to encourage people to buy the Xbox 360 anywhere but the US.

    I hope most poeple import their copies.

  • coojam #18 6 years ago

    @glaeken:

    That's not really fair...Tesco are the only company that can AFFORD to offer such a deal as they buy games in such large quantities. Other high street retailers such as Gamestation, Game et al have to pay more for their games than Tesco hence the higher price...and that's forced by Atari.

    If the publishers dropped the price, and eventually they will, we would be ok.

    Unfortunately, if PS3 games are going to cost the rumoured £60 then they make 360 games look cheap which may maintain that price for longer.

  • Fatfish #19 6 years ago

    Once again, we are royally shafted by the whinging yanks. They would kick up shit if they were made to pay what we are. Exactly how does it cost Atari any more to release a European version than it does to release a US version? I very much doubt any translation work (which of course we don't actually require in the UK!) is worth the extra $60. If you calculate £49.99 in to dollars, it currently translates as almost $91, and yet they're only paying $40. Complete piss take. I appreciate that there are probably other minor costs involved, but nothing that would cost that much extra per unit. Marketing bullshit to gloss over the truth - once again we are left to subsidise the US market. Force them to pay too much and they won't buy, which in turn means that it's a poor selling item and less likely to be shipped out to the rest of the world.

    And before anyone starts ranting, I know that's the way it's always been, but that doesn't make it right.

  • afray #20 6 years ago

    Atari - blow it out your arse.

    + Avogadro's constant

  • coojam #21 6 years ago

    Admittedly don't a lot of American states play tax on top of that?

  • gizmo #22 6 years ago

    @MaxiSleep

    Your attempt at spotting a plant is unfortunately unsuccessful! ;)

    I simply enjoyed the demo.

  • repairmanjack #23 6 years ago

    Note to publisher: I look forward to picking this up for £15 second-hand.

    What's your profit margin on that?

    C*nts.

  • alimokrane #24 6 years ago

    @ coojam

    What Tax ???
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 11:06

  • glaeken #25 6 years ago

    @coojam Well the dedicated game retailers need to do something about this. It might be Atari's fault to an extent but they need to find a way to at least match the likes of Tesco's. Maybe they need to stop stocking the games if they can not get the deals of the bigger retailers. That might send a message back to the publishers.

    To me if they can not compete and that is the reason for the high price point then they have serious problems because as a consumer I can tell you I will not be buying from stores that charge 25% more for a game.

  • #26 6 years ago

    I'm refusing to buy this now, good to see a lot of folk taking the same stand.

    On the subject of US sales tax, it is only applicable in some states and is usually around 10% so only adds a few dollars on to the price anyway.

  • chupachups #27 6 years ago

    Maybe if they didn't charge twice as much for games in Europe, Europeans would buy more games and more games consoles. Maybe?

  • Keso #28 6 years ago

    So when Bruno Bonnell said:

    "Innovation should be available to everyone, not a privilege for those can afford high price tags..."

    he ment

    "Innovation should be available to everyone (in the US), not a privilege for those can afford high price tags..."

    Bunch of arse.

    I was going to buy this regardless of the price, now i'd just feel like i'm being ripped off.

  • calc #29 6 years ago

    It's not specifically spelled out in the article, but it seems that one of the key reasons they're offering it at a lower price in the US is because they (obviously) intend to sell a hell of a lot of upgrades in the live marketplace - with a much larger installed user base in the US, they expect to be able to shift a lot more 'horse armour' through the marketplace, making up for the discounted price.

  • chupachups #30 6 years ago

    "It's not specifically spelled out in the article, but it seems that one of the key reasons they're offering it at a lower price in the US is because they (obviously) intend to sell a hell of a lot of upgrades in the live marketplace - with a much larger installed user base in the US, they expect to be able to shift a lot more 'horse armour' through the marketplace, making up for the discounted price. "

    But the reason there's a larger installed base is that the Americans get their consoles cheaper and their other games for half price.

    Charging double for a game and then complaining that it doesn't sell well is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  • Darren #31 6 years ago

    What confuses me is that you can import $59.99 region-free games for under £35 so even if you were caught by Customs you'd still pay less than the £49.99 so why on earth is it not possible to price Test Drive Unlimited (or Top Spin 2 for that matter) at a penny shy of £40 in this country? The answer I think lies with the sheer greed of the publishers.

    Other than Oblivion, I've yet to buy one game on the Xbox 360 that I thought was worth £50 RRP. Good job I pre-order all my games from Gameplay.com for £38 each then, eh, otherwise I wouldn't buy any Xbox 360 games at all. Considering the majority of its games are ports from other formats including the PC, £40 RRP should be the common pricepoint anyway.

  • WhyMeeeeee #32 6 years ago

    Atari you robbing tw**s. penalise the uk cos of the fkd up US economy.
    39 dollars, that should be 29.99 over here then.

    probably a c**p game anyway like all atari games.

    i'll be waiting for it to be 17.00 preowned 2 weeks after release b4 i get it

  • JonFE #33 6 years ago

    Well, their decision, their loss...

    I would be tempted, should the price was right (yet, given the reception of the demo -which I haven't played- maybe I shouldn't :), but with 4 (yes four) racing games already in my x360 collection, this will have to wait, indefinately :)

  • Sko #34 6 years ago

    The best thing about this is if they hadn't have said anything, only a fraction of the people would have known about it. Now though, everyone is seeing Atari as a bunch of money grubbing assholes.

    It's also self-serving prophecy. They jam the prices up high, nobody buys it thus proving themselves right about the market and so they jam the prices up high.

  • calc #35 6 years ago

    "But the reason there's a larger installed base is that the Americans get their consoles cheaper and their other games for half price.

    Charging double for a game and then complaining that it doesn't sell well is a self-fulfilling prophecy. "

    That's part of the reason, but I'd say an even bigger part of the reason for their install base is down to a simple population difference - USA: 295 million vs UK: 60 million. There's 4 times as many of them, so it stands to reason that their install base is (guessing here) at least 4 times as large as ours.

  • MrChuckles #36 6 years ago

    The cost of living in the US is lower than the UK, so $1 goes as far as £1 over here. Then again you'll get paid $30k for a similar job you'd get paid £30k here.

    However, why it is 39.99 over there and 49.99 over here regardless of currency is bullshit.

    I thought Atarifrogrames was a European company anyway?

  • DrDamn #37 6 years ago

    @Darren
    "What confuses me is that you can import $59.99 region-free games for under £35 so even if you were caught by Customs you'd still pay less than the £49.99 so why on earth is it not possible to price Test Drive Unlimited (or Top Spin 2 for that matter) at a penny shy of £40 in this country? The answer I think lies with the sheer greed of the publishers."

    The £35 + possible customs is an internet price though isn't it. Which is about the same as most UK internet prices i.e. £39.99.

    I'm with the boycott brigade on this, particularly considering Bruno's comments. At £30 I would have walked away with this as an impulse purchase. At £50 I won't as I still have too many questions raised by the demo on handling and graphical smoothness.

  • king_skins #38 6 years ago

    I'll not be buying this then. Forza 2 will be out this winter anyway.

  • ilmaestro #39 6 years ago

    The words 'bollocks' and 'absolute' come to mind, perhaps not in that order.

  • Glitch #40 6 years ago

    Well looks like I wont be purchasing this game. Fuck the wankers for insulting us.
    Like some other people I will wait until I can get a preowned copy.
    Stupid pricks!

  • KiLlerKnight #41 6 years ago

    LOL. Whatever. I am definitely not buying this game NOW. Another publisher thinking we Europeans are morons. Trying to justify this bullshit with this explanation is insulting. But at least it made me laugh, sort of...

  • moggsy #42 6 years ago

    That's part of the reason, but I'd say an even bigger part of the reason for their install base is down to a simple population difference - USA: 295 million vs UK: 60 million.

    Yeh but they aren't talking about the UK alone - this pricing situation affects the whole of Europe who's population I would imagine is fairly similar to the population of America.

  • TripleSeven #43 6 years ago

    Don't buy it until it's =^ 39,99$ ;)

  • Steve007 #44 6 years ago

    Still not buying it on principle. Looks like many others also take my stance:

    [link url=http://forum.games radar.com/viewtopic.php?t=91608&start=0&sid=552c3dcac189ec46 eca9b995a735b570
    ]http://fo rum.gamesradar.com/viewtopic.ph...[/link]

    :-)

  • lucky_jim #45 6 years ago

    If you go to http://co rporate.infogrames.com/worldwid... and scroll down a bit, there's a link to email Atari's head of UK PR. You know what to do (although try and make your disgust known without being too offensive, the guy's only doing his job!)

  • Eighthours #46 6 years ago

    Trouble is, when not as many people buy the game as a consequence, Atari will take it as vindication of their decision, not as evidence that they've made an ALMIGHTY PR cock-up.

  • TuftyMcTavish #47 6 years ago

    Good Lord. I was up for this game, especially on hearing it would be priced better than many others. But now I'm a signed up member of the Boycott Brigade - won't be buying it until I can find it on budget somewhere - which is how I buy all my games and DVDs anyway.

  • stoopidgreg #48 6 years ago

    $40 in america, $93 equivilent here? BULLSHIT

  • Fatnick #49 6 years ago

    Thanks Atari, you've made my decision incredibly easy. I enjoyed the demo so wasn't sure whether to pick up this or Dead Rising. Looks like i'll be going with the zombies...

  • coojam #50 6 years ago

    I'm surprised nobody else has commented that Dead Rising is out on the same day anyway so this is hardly gonna sell particularly well.

  • Freek #51 6 years ago

    Translation: the avarage european consumer is verry dumb so we can succesfully screw them over without consequence and we are ofcourse verry happy to do so.

  • EggyDeth #52 6 years ago

    They were ripping people off when they were Les Infogrames and they're ripping people off today. Plus ca change.

  • sharpfish #53 6 years ago

    Yeah.. was looking at possibly buying this (may still when it's @ bargain bin price) but that atari comment just rubs me up the wrong way (patronising). Bollocks to that.

    oh and yes, Dead Rising is vastly more desirable at this time than TDU.

  • Caimbeul #54 6 years ago

    I would like to see the cost structure, because these games are physically made in China anyway, and they all have the same sunk costs. Differences can only be due to more expensive European distribution and marketing costs and translation but not to the point where a game costs more than twice as much.

    Gamers should send a clear message and not buy this. It boils down to the following. Why are they charging twice as much? Why does a dog lick its balls? Beause they can![END QUOTE]

    I agree and there is virtually zero localisation to be done for the UK...they speak our f'ing language! admitadley it may be a bit more costly for marketing here but thats it. It does not warrent such blatant greedy inflation - End of discussion. If they had priced at £39.99 I doubt there would be too much fuss. I have stopped buying anything but the very best games for my 360 as the costs are simply not worth it. No game can justify £50 - NONE!

    I WAS going to but TDU but Atari can now go swivel. if it is region free I will import it.

    It is this kind of mis-treatment of customers that leads people into Software Piracy. It is the same with US made movies being released months later over here and even having european, asian and south american countries get it before the UK. HELLO! no translation involved = dont need anything done to the movie apart from sending it over here.

    Atari - you are all @ssh0les!

  • kangarootoo #55 6 years ago

    "In other words, it's possible for Atari to release a 360 game in the US at a lower-than-usual price and still make a decent return, but it simply isn't the same for them over here."

    I know everyone is enjoying being all angry, but the comment above is actually true. Its called economies of scale and Atari didn't invent it.

    Plus, £49.99 is RRP for all XB360 games, so its not like they are acting any differently to any other publisher in the EU is it?

    They are simply flogging it a discount in the US. I believe McDonalds food is cheaper in the US for the same reasons. Should we be getting angry about that too?

  • WickedDeeJ #56 6 years ago

    And making the Europeans pay nearly twice as much as the Americans will *naturally* help the console penetration of the Xbox360 in Europe. Or the same will happen as did with the first Xbox; consumers will realise they are being overcharged for the same titles and will simply not buy them.

  • Caimbeul #57 6 years ago

    Unfortunately, if PS3 games are going to cost the rumoured £60 then they make 360 games look cheap which may maintain that price for longer end

    if they do cost £60 then Sony too will lose my business

    It makes me laugh, when games are developed they star out with higher poly counts etc then spend time reducing them bit by bit till they can get it running on the machine. yet now they can start with high poly models and spend the time they would have spent reducing the poly count to add all these pixel shading effects etc. There are no games that are any more advance in terms of content on 360 than current gen titles (Oblivion being the exctpion) so the added cost of new games is unwarranted.

  • riz23 #58 6 years ago

    So we buy Dead Rising on day of release, boycott Test Drive Unlimited and wait for Forza 2 which is not far off anyway. Unite as gamers and Fight The Power!

  • stormuk #59 6 years ago

    You could always rent it... Thats how I get all my games nowdays.

    I pay £120 a year and so far have got through about 13 games.. and I only started 4 months ago.

  • Turrican #60 6 years ago

    If they had charged full price in the US no one would have complained - its funny how PR screw-ups can balloon.

  • Caimbeul #61 6 years ago

    ""That's part of the reason, but I'd say an even bigger part of the reason for their install base is down to a simple population difference - USA: 295 million vs UK: 60 million. There's 4 times as many of them, so it stands to reason that their install base is (guessing here) at least 4 times as large as ours. ""

    Indeed and if that ratio were consistant then there would only be approx 800,000 360's in the country but we have around 1.6 million which give the UK a higher "360 per head" count.

    Oh how Atari look stupid. I hope they companies blows smoke and goes into liquidation.

  • alimokrane #62 6 years ago

    They need to get their stupid price sorted or I aint F***ing buying it. if it's 39.99 Dollars then it should be £29.99 here. Rockstar Table Tennis anyone ??? they arent any better than rockstar are they!!! A@@holes!

  • optimusprym8 #63 6 years ago

    and the US gets a free teeshirt with Dead Rising :(

    I just hope that the TD:U marketplace packs will be cheaper here, but yeah right!

    cnuts

  • Fatnick #64 6 years ago

    its stupid. They're up against Saints Row, Dead Rising and Enchanted Arms (great scheduling guys). Maybe Timeshift and Lego Starwars as well. If anything, they should be giving incentives here rather than in the US!
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 14:07

  • Caimbeul #65 6 years ago

    Just mailed the Head of PR @ Atari:

    I thought it would be prudent to draw your attention to one of the many forum threads on the internet that focus on Atari's upcomming release.

    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article_discuss...

    I am with the boycott brigade on this one I am afraid. There is absolutely no possible justification for the grotesque pricing difference between the UK and US versions. It merely highlights the company's greed (not best practice given Atari's current financial situation) A £30 price point would have ensured great sales and snagged many a impulse purchase (See Rockstar's Table Tennis for example of pricing).

    I for one will either not buy the game on principle (I own all consoles and there is more than enough choice out there Including other driving games for the 360), or wait for the game to become available in 2nd hand form for which I believe Atari's profit will be £0.00.

    Your comments on this would be appreciated and posted onto the forums of Eurogamer.net, ign.com, gamespot.com, edge-online.com, computerandvideog ames.co.uk to name a few.

    Yours Sadly


    ****** *****

  • S0L0man #66 6 years ago

    Utter Madness, was thinking of picking this up, now I'll just wait for the bargain bin/second hand.
    Any Company that is willing to treat it's customer base like this doesn't deserve our money.

    I fully expect that they play silly buggers with the price of marketplace content as well.

  • Artemus #67 6 years ago

    /bends over for Atari

  • kangarootoo #68 6 years ago

    @Caimbeul

    "Indeed and if that ratio were consistant then there would only be approx 800,000 360's in the country but we have around 1.6 million which give the UK a higher "360 per head" count."

    That isn't really the point though. "360 per head" counts don't walk itno stores and buy games. Their bottom line is how many actual console owners are there in the market place.

    @Fatnick

    They have to make profit though don't they. Shipping more units than a competitor is a hollow victory is you lost money on the deal whilst they made money.


    For the record, I wasn't planning to buy it AND I totally agree with not buying something that you think is overpriced. But there is really no need for everyone make such a song and dance about it and talk of boycotting.

    We are customers, if we don't like the product and the price we don't buy it, same as its always been. People seem to have utterly overlooked the fact that Atari is not actually doing anything new here.

    People have also conveniently overlooked the previous comment by Turrican which summed things up perfectly. So here it is again,

    "If they had charged full price in the US no one would have complained"

    Now everyone either just calm down or dedicate your rage to some PROPER causes that actually matter.

  • brainbird #69 6 years ago

    You're just being too reasonable, you know.

  • #70 6 years ago

    zomg i cann0t belive u peeple i wud bai this gme evn if it wuz a zillion dollards!!11!!11!!

  • Fatnick #71 6 years ago

    @Kangarootoo

    Yes, if the price in the US wasn't lower noone would be complaining. However, the price is lower so that fact is pretty much irrelevant. If they need to sell it for £50 here in order to make a profit, we are basically subsidising the cheaper US pice which, in my mind, is something to be complaining about.

    As for the more sales vs more profits, I think that your statement would be true for every other console other than the 360. However, considering the success of addons such as the PGR3 style/speed packs, there's certainly a good argument for using cheaper prices to pull in more gamers who you can fleece later with addons. Providing they don't go mental with the addon pricing(hello Ubisoft), its a win-win situation for everyone - we get cheaper inital prices and games which stay newer for longer, they, in the long run, get higher long term profits.

  • Segnit #72 6 years ago

    kangarootoo

    Let me put it this way. If you and your best friend were carrying the same exact boxes in a warehouse but you recieved 20 pounds and hour and he recieved 30 pounds an hour doing the same job, would you be happy?

    And off coarse you wouldn't complain if both of you were getting the same amount of money. What's your point?

    Now if the difference was more marginal, like say, a couple of quid; then you might consider it not worth it to start a fight and ultimately risk your friend getting paid lower.

    If anything, this situation highlights how expensive the prices are over here to begin with.
    Edited by 2 at 31/07/06 @ 15:41

  • Caimbeul #73 6 years ago

    @ Kangarootoo

    I know, my comment re: the 360's per head was a response/ addition to a comment made earlier. I agree that if the all that should actually matter is the global live subscription count.

  • Scientist #74 6 years ago

    "Just mailed the Head of PR @ Atari:

    I thought it would be prudent to draw your attention to one of the many forum threads on the internet that focus on Atari's upcomming release.

    [link url=http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article_discuss...
    ]http://ww w.eurogamer.net/article_discuss...[/link]

    I am with the boycott brigade on this one I am afraid. There is absolutely no possible justification for the grotesque pricing difference between the UK and US versions. It merely highlights the company's greed (not best practice given Atari's current financial situation) A £30 price point would have ensured great sales and snagged many a impulse purchase (See Rockstar's Table Tennis for example of pricing).

    I for one will either not buy the game on principle (I own all consoles and there is more than enough choice out there Including other driving games for the 360), or wait for the game to become available in 2nd hand form for which I believe Atari's profit will be £0.00.

    Your comments on this would be appreciated and posted onto the forums of Eurogamer.net, ign.com, gamespot.com, edge-online.com, computerandvideog ames.co.uk to name a few.

    Yours Sadly


    ****** *****"

    Sadly, indeed.
    You're already posting on an article based on comments that Atari have given in response to an outcry; do you expect them to give you a more detailed response?

  • cyber_nicco #75 6 years ago

    I'm with you on this one, guys. I'm American, but I think this type of pricing is unreasonable and ultimately counterproductive. Honestly, I think even the "normal" pricing of games over there (in the UK, at least) seems odd to me. I really think it must be a case of games publishers thinking they can get away with it. I would think anything more than a 20-25% price difference has to be extra profit - over and above localization, importing, marketing, etc. Of course, I don't really know, but that is my gut reaction.

    edit: for some damn reason it keeps truncating my objection to one comment about "being shafted by whinging americans"
    Edited by 2 at 31/07/06 @ 21:00

  • Salvia #76 6 years ago

    Utter bullshit. If they thought it was going to sell in the US they would set the price point at every other XBox game.
    No publisher thinks 'We're going to sell loads in this territory so let's drop the price.'.

  • Rambaldi #77 6 years ago

    Everything is cheaper in America guys: economies of scale and all that. They can afford to reduce the price because they're guaranteed a much bigger market. It kind of makes sense really.

    To give an extreme example, a friend of mine in the textiles industry paid over £20,000 for a fairly simple piece of stitch-weaving software. It cost so much becuase it only sold a few hundred copies worldwide.

    Why then do fucking holidays cost more when the companies have guaranteed trade in the summer? Why is Gas going up when it's CONSTANTLY used? Now they're the real wankers!

    P.S. (and off-topic) Cyber-Nicco: PRS = performing rights society. They collect money from the sales of music and distribute it to artists and labels. It's why blank CDAudio CDs cost more than blank data CDs: a small amount is paid to PRS as it is assumed that music will be copied onto them.

  • Caimbeul #78 6 years ago

    @ Scientist.

    The comments already made by Atari to which you refer are a poor excuse IMHO. I am merely pointing out to them that there is still significant discontent within the gaming community, that they CAN'T justify it no matter what bullsh!t they give us and that this is what the result is. I am merely making my own voice heard. The likelyhood of it making any difference? virtually Zero. The likelyhood of me getting a decent response if any? Virtually Zero. At the end of the day I will be happy knowing that I have told them directly where to stick their game based on this issue and I will not buy it. I'm happy with that. I merely thought I would share that with the forum. Mayhaps that was a mistake as these forums appear to be more inclined to people people poo pooing others or being very childish (you dont fall into the latter, only the former.)

  • kangarootoo #79 6 years ago

    @Fatnick

    "Yes, if the price in the US wasn't lower noone would be complaining. However, the price is lower so that fact is pretty much irrelevant."

    Lol, I'm not sure of your logic there. I think Turrican's point is absolutely relevant when viewing what I would describe as over reaction and a lack of context.

    "there's certainly a good argument for using cheaper prices to pull in more gamers"

    I totally agree, buts its a fine balancing act, the details of which are specific to each situation. Atari know all about pricing correctly for the market, so they wouldn't be so stupid as to simply wade in with a higher price with dollars in their eyes. If a lower price meant more profits, that what they would be doing I'm sure ('cos I suspect their market research is rather better than ours).

    @Segnit

    "Let me put it this way. If you and your best friend were carrying the same exact boxes in a warehouse but you recieved 20 pounds and hour and he recieved 30 pounds an hour doing the same job, would you be happy?"

    Thats an appalingly contrived example that of course makes my point ridiculous. I've a better version.

    Q. Me and friend are carrying boxes of the same weight to two different warehouses (though we both have to walk the same distance and expand the same amount of engery). But he lives and works in the US and I live and work in the UK. Am I surprised that his wage isn't the same as mine?

    A. Of course not. He is in a different country.

    I think thats a much better example ;) You dropped in a sneaky couple of "exact"s which were totally inappropriate.

    @Caimbeul

    Fair enough, I missed your point.

    Rambaldi makes good points. I'm not saying everyone should buy the bloody game. I'm just saying that pricing varying by territory happens for proper reasons, whether we like it or not.

    Its not new, its not greedy, its just the ecnonomic of world business. The reason I am being so beligerant (and I am, I know it) about this issue is that it kind of riles me when people ignore facts that are either right under their noses, or could be found for minimal effort, just so they can sound off about how company X or Y is evil and money grabbing.

    Exercising your power as a consumer is awesome and I ramble frequently enough about it on these pages. Just don't treat it like a weapon when its just part of normal life.

  • kangarootoo #80 6 years ago

    @Caimbeul

    Do I fall into the second category? :)

  • Freki #81 6 years ago

    The "economies of scale" argument doesn't wash here because it is the same product. The only different costs are production of the DVDs (which costs buttons per game) and the distribution and marketing. It being software the development costs are shared across all customers.

    It is basically profiteering, they feel that they can charge what they want. Which is fine as that is how a market economy works. However I can exercise my right as a consumer not to subsidise the US market. Which is what I will do.

  • Fatnick #82 6 years ago

    "Lol, I'm not sure of your logic there. I think Turrican's point is absolutely relevant when viewing what I would describe as over reaction and a lack of context. "

    There isn't a lack of context. There would be if $40 was the cost of a normal full price game, but it isn't. Even in the context of their own market, the US is getting TD at a discounted price, while in the context of our own market we're still paying top-dollar.

    "Atari know all about pricing correctly for the market, so they wouldn't be so stupid as to simply wade in with a higher price with dollars in their eyes."

    Oh i don't know...atari's current financial difficulties would perhaps suggest that they are not as knowledgable as they should be.

  • Caimbeul #83 6 years ago

    @ Kangarootoo . . . . No you're ok :-D
    ___________________________________________________________< br />
    I think the reason most companies tend to get away with this (greedy pricing) is because the british public simply dont vote with their wallets (with a few exceptions amongst us here).

    I simply cannot see (nor can Atari explain) the excessive differences in cost.
    Japan is arguably one of if not the most expensive country in the world and yet software is cheaper there too (usually). The fact is they are taking us all for mugs and I for one will not stand for it.

  • Mr_Brown #84 6 years ago

    Pff, complete BS, I won't be robbed, not buying it till it gets a price cut now.

  • Darth_Flibble #85 6 years ago

    The best thing is to do (if you want the game) wait till the price drops and it WILL if people don't buy it. Also there is much better games out in September, Atari games are buggy shit, the demo of TDU was not that good

  • Whizzo #86 6 years ago

    It's ok everyone, when it flops badly in Europe I'm sure we'll be able to pick it up from online retailers for less than 20 quid.

    September has plenty to offer in competition so I'm sure it'll be hitting the bargain section of Play sooner rather than later.

    Bit of a shame really, I was looking forward to it but Infogrames can swivel, it being really dependent on the multiplayer aspects is going to make taking the piss over pricing a bit of a serious error.

    Oh well I'm sure they'll sell lots of stuff on marketplace, I'm not sure who too though...

  • trench #87 6 years ago

    Erm, going by this logic, Atari should be selling TD for around £149.99 in Asia as there around 1/3rd the number of 360s there than in Europe. (Shipped 1.3 million in Europe and 400,000 in Asia).

    Utter, utter madness.

  • Segnit #88 6 years ago

    kangarootoo

    I agree with everything you're saying and you are extremely reasonable. It's a rare find. But... and that's a big but, Atari must have set a new record right now. In one country they are selling their product for $40 and in another country above $90. That's a first.

    The problem isn't HUGE, but there is a problem. Now whether it's the governments to blame or Atari, is an entierly different topic.

  • Arnold__ #89 6 years ago

    I am also in finance and involved with transfer pricing on a daily basis. Some of the forumites here appear to be fooled by 'economies of scale'. I'll try to simplify this:

    Lets say Atari program the game in the US, total salaries, rent, overheads etc mean their total investment is $10m. They then arrange with their factory in China, to produce 1 million copies of the game, lets say thats another $5 million. Right now Atari has spent $15 million and they have 1 million disks sitting in China to show for it. Of this, they send 600,000 to the US, 390,000 to Europe and 10,000 to Japan. Now the selling starts. So, my question is, where exactly is the economies of scale that necessitate a lower price for the US? Of course I am simplifying but you get the idea. It could be that the European firm has to pay royalties to the US firm for every copy sold but this money ends up within Atari anyway. Also remember that, on average, the effective company tax rate in the US is higher than in Europe. Hence, try and get your US income as low as possible and max out your European income. Perhaps they have some tax losses also that they are trying to utilize. Who knows. But they should just stop lying to us Joseph Goebbels style or taking us for idiots. Thats their f*cken economy of scale. So, if you want to buy this game you know what to do

    /assumes the position

  • Les #90 6 years ago

    I thought 360 owners would pay any price to be able to play a new game on their system... ;-)

  • Penguinzoot #91 6 years ago

    Doesn't appear so, Les ;-)

  • Bennicus #92 6 years ago

    @TuftyMcTavish: "But now I'm a signed up member of the Boycott Brigade - won't be buying it until I can find it on budget somewhere - which is how I buy all my games and DVDs anyway."
    Oh no they've just lost one of their best customers!
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 20:07

  • cawley1 #93 6 years ago

    It's brilliant coming here and seeing everyone *again* having a good moan about;

    A) The price of games in the UK.
    B) The games that publishers never bring to the UK, e.g. Katamari Damacy.

    In 1996 I bought a bloody big Toshiba TV, swapped my PAL Playstation, SNES and MD for NTSC ones and NEVER looked back - back then it was because of shitty borders and speed, then the internet kicked in and now I can go to Canadian websites and buy all the latest releases for exactally the sort of money this release is highlighting, with FREE postage and months before the UK release, if indeed it ever appears!

    Get someone to bring back a US machine for you, or buy one here - the extra you spend on the system here will be recovered in a couple of games anyway!

    It does not make it right, but it is clear here in the UK we will always get screwed on price for everything, from games to CD's to Petrol - we can't do anything about the last one but get importing the rest and stop moaning!

  • bloodflowers #94 6 years ago

    If they just produced one version and made it region free, then the only extra cost would be shipping. Filthy toads - this is just region milking.

  • cyber_nicco #95 6 years ago

    I have to agree with _Arnold.

    I mean, could you imagine how furious we Americans would be if games cost more in California and New York, than they did in Tennesee and New Mexico (much poorer, comparatively)?

    This, and many products not heavily infulenced by tarrifs, really should be marketed more "globally". They are just charging what they believe they can in different markets.

    I hate to say it, but if a large enough proportion of European consumers refused to pay grossly inflated prices on games and consoles, I am convinced the prices would come down. Now getting everyone together on that would probably prove quite difficult...

    So, import your consoles and games till then, and please ask EG to review games when they are first released and not wait for the European release dates! (unless they will be substantially different)
    Edited by 1 at 31/07/06 @ 23:17

  • Skywise #96 6 years ago

    I was really excited about this game, but the 360 games are all priced to high imo. And this ripp-off I will definately not support (just like VF4 Evolution that saw a budget release in US and not over here).

  • Bumbuliuz #97 6 years ago

    I wont be touching that shit, or any thing else that Atari releases. Let them go under. They wont really be missed.

  • DrDamn #98 6 years ago

    Regardless of market economies, yadda, yadda, yadda. One thing this certainly does equal is a PR disaster of their own making. This is meant to be the big driving game franchise for Atari that they want to push for many years to come. One of the reasons they have sold on Reflections and the Driver brand. Not the best of starts is it?

  • kangarootoo #99 6 years ago

    @Arnold__

    You make good points and I think maybe I was oversimplifying things to make my case (I try not to slip into having an agenda, but I know I still do it sometimes).

    I'm not sure I agree that the product shipped in Europe is "the same" as the one shipped in the US. Sure, the vast majority of the code and assets on the disc are the same, but each version is treated as an independant item (a SKU in the business) and is marketed and priced accordingly.

    I'm very much at risk of rambling on ad infinitum, so I'll make one last comment and then just bough out (I'm enjoying reading many of the well informed posts on here, from both sides of the fence).


    My parting point.

    Every company will charge the very highest price they can for their product without impacting their overall profit. That is simply part of business. They juggle the figures and try to second guess what people will be prepared to pay. Sometimes they get it right and sell shed loads of something that poeple view as a bargain, sometimes they get it wrong and piss everyone off (or underprice and lose out that way). But the principle is the same across all industries.

    Atari are not doing anything new here, its the same old customer choice situation as it has always been. I don't expect Atari to explain to me the mechanics of their pricing, I don't even need that info in order to make my descision. Atari are categorically NOT ripping anyone off, because we all have a CHOICE as to whether we buy their products. And if we don't, as many have said, the pricing of the market will adjust to suit us (or Atari will go out of business).

  • Farstarbuck #100 6 years ago

    I think Atari can take their pity and ram it in Sony's direction.

    So it makes sense to sell a cheap game to 3 million gamers, rather than maximise sales in a region of 1.6 million gamers does it?

    And ofcourse there are the implications of ripping the Europeans off, and also might i add that since its been openly discussed that the most important region very soon in Video gaming is to be Europe, hence why all the next gen platfroms and the like are being released worldwide. It would appear Atari dont want to be another company keeping the Europeans sweet.

    Oh well, im sure once they go under next year after another terrible financial period, they'll have Microsoft to show them how to keep their punters happy when they throw them a bone by putting Atari classics on the Xbox Live Arcade.

    Ciao Atari

  • MaxiSleep #101 6 years ago


    Some idiot stated:

    "Everything is cheaper in America guys: economies of scale and all that. They can afford to reduce the price because they're guaranteed a much bigger market. It kind of makes sense really."

    Scale economies depend on a large fixed cost amortised over a larger unit sale

    The largest fixed cost of a game is the development. It is amortised over all terrortories. The argument above therefore is hogwash, and probably posted by some Atari minion

    Screw Atari. And do boycott their games. That is the only way to speak to them in a language they understand

  • captain-future #102 6 years ago

    wowowow!

    so let me get things straight. Microsoft knew the X360 should have a lower price tag in Japan because the expected to sell less.

    so Atari should match that and sell the game for LESS IN EUROPE because the know they won't sell much at the high price.

    --

    they will get what they deserve - nobody will buy the game at launch, after weeks the price will be 20 EUR and we the customers will be happy.

  • SomaticSense #103 6 years ago

    F**king bastards.

    This must be one of the most regrettable decisions they ever took. They are in financial trouble? No bloody wonder with ill-judged marketing decisions like this. The European market may not be as big as the US, but it is still pretty huge and they will soon find out that they cannot pull anything like this without it biting them really hard in the arse.