Gay rights group speaks out

By Ellie Gibson Published 30 January, 2006

On Blizzard's WOW policy.

A spokesperson for gay equality organisation Stonewall has told our sister site, GamesIndustry.biz, that attempts to set up lesbian, gay and bisexual-friendly guilds in World of Warcraft should be "welcomed, not blocked."

Stonewall, founded in 1989, is a professional lobbying group which campaigns for the rights of lesbians, gay men and bisexuals. The organisation's comments come after Blizzard issued WOW player Sara Andrews with an official warning for inviting players to join a guild billed as "LGBT friendly".

Speaking exclusively to GamesIndustry.biz, Stonewall spokesperson Jonathan Finney said: "This attempt to create a safe, gay-friendly environment should be welcomed, not blocked."

"Hopefully this is just a misunderstanding. Stonewall would encourage Blizzard to review their policy, to make sure it has effect where it’s actually needed.’

According to Andrews, as detailed on the Gamers.Experimentations forum, Blizzard said that by inviting players to join the guild she was in breach of the game's terms of use under the 'Harassment - Sexual Orientation' category.

"This category includes both clear and masked language which... Insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players," the warning read.

Andrews contacted Blizzard to contest the decision, but was told: "While some language in and of itself may not be offensive, it may incite certain responses in other players that will allow for discussion that we feel has no place in our game."

The story was picked up by website InNewsWeekly.com and began to attract the attention of WOW players around the globe. According to INW, gamer John Blatzheim contacted Blizzard to express concern and received a reply which read: "Many people are insulted just at the word 'homosexual' or any other word referring to sexual orientation."

"Also to discriminate against other players, such as not allowing any heterosexuals into the guild simply because of their sexual orientation, could cause extreme offense to a large percentage of our players and should be avoided."

However, Andrews' original invite assured players that whilst the guild was "LGBT friendly", it was "not LGBT only."

Andrews said that she planned to cancel her World of Warcraft subscription as a result of Blizzard's refusal to reverse their decision, arguing that the word "gay" is often used as a term of abuse by players along with more offensive slang words.

"It seems to be okay for general chat to be flooded with [these terms], yet advertising for a GLBT friendly environment where we don't have to deal with such language is deemed inappropriate," Andrews stated.

In an official statement issued to GamesIndustry.biz, Blizzard said: "We encourage community building among our players with others of similar interests, and we understand that guilds are one of the primary ways to forge these communities."

"However, topics related to sensitive real-world subjects - such as religious, sexual, or political preference, for example - have had a tendency to result in communication between players that often breaks down into harassment."

The statement goes on to say that in order to "promote a positive game environment... We prohibit mention of topics related to sensitive real-world subjects in open chat within the game, and we do our best to take action whenever we see such topics being broadcast."

"This includes openly advertising a guild friendly to players based on a particular political, sexual, or religious preference, to list a few examples. For guilds that wish to use such topics as part of their recruiting efforts, our Guild Recruitment forum, located at our community website, serves as one open avenue for doing so."

The statement concludes by confirming that Blizzard "Will be clarifying some of the language in our game policies in order to help avoid such confusion in the future."

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (82) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • karlidog #1 6 years ago

    It's worth repeating, before the inevitable misinformation kicks in, that this was specifically a queer-friendly rather than queer-only guild, that Blizzard already allow a vast range of guilds centered around (and exclusive to) religion, nationality and so on, and that saying things like 'why would anyone make their sexuality an issue in an MMORPG?' is ridiculous - unless you want to cut yourself off from all non-game-related chat or lie, sexuality is going to come up in casual conversations about living arrangements, partners and so on. It's just that a depressingly large number of people seem to think 'sexuality' only means homosexuality just because, for them, heterosexuality's the default.
    Edited by karlidog at 30/01/06 @ 16:36

  • Metalfish #2 6 years ago

    Well that sounds fair to me, I mean there'd be outrage if the was guilds proclaiming themselves "hetrosexual friendly" (and, by inference, anti-homosexual), wouldn't there?

    Sounds like the most sensible practice avalible to blizzard, in a world populated, unfortunately, by some intolerant and imature individuals aswell as those who can avoid spamming insults at every avalible opportunity.

  • jack_klugman #3 6 years ago

    Pandering to the intollerant makes you complicit in their bigotry.

  • Aga #4 6 years ago

    They are gay for saying that.

    Still, if Blizzard takes the same stance with all sexuality, why to they complain.

  • Freek #5 6 years ago

    It simply means that in order to aviode nasty situations they can't advertise in-game. Regardless of wether it is meant positvly or negativly the topics are considered off limits inside the game chat. But they can do so on the forums.

  • Ninjamagic #6 6 years ago

    Ignore them. These days if your hamster isnt gay they would knock on your door & break it down all for the "free rights of the hamster" - to pursue their own agenda.

    I mean its a bloody computer game. Not real. If your gay or not what bloody does it matter?

    Left still goes left.
    Right still goes right.

    The wizards are still there as are the dragons.

    Its just a silly rights group wanting a bit of free PR

  • asphaltcowboy #7 6 years ago

    Fair play to Blizzard - why is it necessary to be LGBT-friendly or otherwise? You get on with people or you don't. If you don't, don't join the guild/invite the person in.

  • justsomeone #8 6 years ago

    @ninjamagic - you have clearly no idea what you're talking about, so you're forgiven.

    on topic, i was horrified to read this, but unsurprised. wow is an *extremely* conservative setup. that's not to say that they are homophobic, just that they really don't want anyone talking about homosexuality on their servers, where they might have to make a stand or expell someone for saying something homophobic in general chat.

    given that almost every other thing said in general chat contains language that could be construed as homophobic, it's hardly surprising that bliz don't want to go anywhere near the subject.

    they get around any possibility of problems by simply making the whole thing "illegal". for example, you're also not allowed to type in any language other than english in general chat (on english servers) - this might be for practical reasons, but mainly it's just pandering to the xenophobes. same goes, it seems, for sexual orientation.

    i sincerely hope blizzard is forced to apologise.

  • mattius30 #9 6 years ago

    Ninjamagic - you miss the point entirely. The computer game may not 'be real' but the people you play with are. Some gay players just want to go online and know that when they play they don't have to 'edit' themselves should they be asked about partners or 'who they fancy' or whatever, and they won't even have to considor the worry of being dropped from a group or verbally attacked or ignored.

    This may be difficult for straight people to comprehend, because their lifestyle and personal life is not attacked in such a manner. When you are asked whether you have a partner - you don't have to pause and make a decision as to whether you should answer correctly, or lie or make a partner up.

    The call for a gay friendly guild was merely to provide a haven for those that want the 'luxury' of feeling normal and part of a collective.

    The only agenda gay rights activists have is to try and secure a safe world in which LGBT people can live. It's comments from people like Ninjamagic that makes that job so much harder.

  • Furbs #10 6 years ago

    Any pics?

  • jack_klugman #11 6 years ago

    Surely there must be legislation which prohibits this kind of sexual intollerance.

  • MrChuckles #12 6 years ago

    I was playing MTGO the other day and got warning for telling the chat room that someone called my deck 'gay' as it didn't use any expensive cards.

    I was just quoting someone else and i still got a warning for using that word as it is offensive.

    Jeez, any gay friends i have don't think that is offensive, who writes these stupid rules up?

  • Drakron #13 6 years ago

    Like it or not WoW is a private owned and operated so the owners can do as they please as long it does not violate any laws.

    People get the wrong idea that freedom of speech applies in the Internet ... it does not.

    This is another gay rights publicity stunt, Blizzard have FULL control over WoW and if they decide to update their TOS to "women are not allowed" they would be in their right to do so.

    Another thing, WoW is not SEXUAL (despite some encounters I personaly witness on some locations) ... I can understand nationality guilds (since portuguese for example dont have their language severs) and religion guilds do strike me as odd but really ... gay guilds?

    Are you going to be suprised if someone decided to insult then ... since I am not.

  • SirScratchalot #14 6 years ago

    Sad, would have made it easier for a lot of people to meet someone online...
    And let´s face it, I´m guessing people playing a lot of WoW need all the chances they can get. That game´s a full time job if you let it.

    "This is another gay rights publicity stunt, Blizzard have FULL control over WoW and if they decide to update their TOS to "women are not allowed" they would be in their right to do so."

    No they would not, exactly this sort of behavior is under legislation in basically all european countries for example. Private ownership does not give you a license for shutting out who you want if you´re selling something on the open market.
    Edited by SirScratchalot at 30/01/06 @ 17:07

  • Freek #15 6 years ago

    They are not shutting anybody out, the clan is not banned, just that the subject of sexual orientation along with political things are not allowed in game, but they are allowed in the forum.
    It's an issue that 's blown out of porportion a bitt, they're not actaully banning gay people.

  • jack_klugman #16 6 years ago

    This is another gay rights publicity stunt, Blizzard have FULL control over WoW and if they decide to update their TOS to "women are not allowed" they would be in their right to do so.

    They really wouldn't, at least not in this country.

    It sets a very strange double standard to be accepting of use of "gay" as a derogatory term, but to not be accepting of a gay-friendly guild or clan.

  • riz23 #17 6 years ago

    Well said mattius30! Absolutely spot on.

    And get rid of that post from bengalibengali. It's totally offensive.
    Edited by riz23 at 30/01/06 @ 17:12

  • stoopidgreg #18 6 years ago

    if you comment here you're gay!

    /oops

  • jack_klugman #19 6 years ago

    And get rid of that post from bengalibengali. It's totally offensive.

    But potentially ironic in the context. Well hopefully...

  • SirScratchalot #20 6 years ago

    @BengaliBengali, if that was a joke you better delete that post quickly...
    Real quickly.....

  • riz23 #21 6 years ago

    Well bengalibengali? Elucidate us all why don't you? Humour or Fatwah?

  • Drakron #22 6 years ago

    No they would not, exactly this sort of behavior is under legislation in basically all european countries for example. Private ownership does not give you a license for shutting out who you want if you´re selling something on the open market.

    Ever seen the signs saying "reserved the right of admision"?

    I know they exist in portugal, they even have "reserved the right of service" ... someone obvious drunk is going to be thrown out.

    Ands it seens Blizzard is going to make a TOS violation ANY reference to sexuality and a good thing too ...

  • theidiotsarewinning #23 6 years ago

    racism and homophobia are, from what i've experienced, annoyingly rife in online gaming, and will reduce it in future to little more than the bunch of idiotic 12-year-olds everyone talks about playing against on xbox live and so on. anything that gets rid of that, or as in this case offers a haven from it, can be no bad thing.

  • SirScratchalot #24 6 years ago

    "Ever seen the signs saying "reserved the right of admision"?

    I know they exist in portugal, they even have "reserved the right of service" ... someone obvious drunk is going to be thrown out.

    Ands it seens Blizzard is going to make a TOS violation ANY reference to sexuality and a good thing too ... "

    You don´t have the right to reserve the rights of admission for any reasons though. Certainly not in portugal and certainly not in Sweden or England either.
    You can´t make up all your own rules when you start an establishment, that´s where a number of other laws supercede your right of ownership.
    Edited by SirScratchalot at 30/01/06 @ 17:34

  • jack_klugman #25 6 years ago

    I'd welcome a more mature attitude than just blanket pretending important issues don't exist or forbidding their discussion. Far worse than angry homophobic 12 year olds is an industry enforcing the removal of the right to free speech.

  • Drakron #26 6 years ago

    Are you saying someone obvious drunk will not be thrown out?

    Heck even been to a club? the doorman can bar your entry ...

  • smoison #27 6 years ago

    "the removal of the right to free speech."


    MMORPG's are unfortunetly very protected. In this case, the person was just not alowed to recruit in game because you cant even say GAY (or other "protected" words).

    Its really not a question of free speech, that just dosn't exist in games, hell if it were up to Nintendo, people online would NEVER be able to talk to each other PERIODE....


    P:S In Counter-Strike, you can say whetever the hell you want, and thank god. U Fukin N00b camping biatch !1!1!

  • Stormflood_UK #28 6 years ago

    I'll back Blizzard on this one. They do not wish WoW to be a forum for religious, political or sexual debate. It's a 'shoes off at the door' policy, regardless of whether you wear boots, trainers or stilettos.

    p.s. I'm usually threatened with ass-rape by 12 year old Americans on Halo 2 everynight. I'd be quite happy if freedom of speech was relinquished in that game....

  • Agent_Llama #29 6 years ago

    mattius30 has it spot on.

    Personally I plan to email Blizzard about this, as I considered setting up what I would have termed an 'LGBT-friendly' guild.

    To quote mattius30 - "The call for a gay friendly guild was merely to provide a haven for those that want the 'luxury' of feeling normal and part of a collective." This is precisely the reason why I wanted to do the same.

  • jack_klugman #30 6 years ago

    I'm usually threatened with ass-rape by 12 year old Americans on Halo 2 everynight. I'd be quite happy if freedom of speech was relinquished in that game...

    There's a very clear distinction between condemning the discussion and acknowledgement of personal sexuality and condemning abusive insults. I'd be all for Blizzard or Microsoft taking action against individuals who behave in an offensive manner. Creating a guild which welcomes individuals of a particular orientation, without discriminating against those who aren't, in no way falls into this category.

  • Xerx3s #31 6 years ago

    "While some language in and of itself may not be offensive, it may incite certain responses in other players that will allow for discussion that we feel has no place in our game."

    Wait, so blizzard is affraid of those conservative, prude bastards? America, land of the free and just. Only when it fits in with the small minded ppl...

    That said, i dont see what sexual oriantation has to do with WoW.

  • asphaltcowboy #32 6 years ago

    "Creating a guild which welcomes individuals of a particular orientation, without discriminating against those who aren't, in no way falls into this category."

    If they aren't discriminating against those who aren't, why would they feel the need to refer to it as "LGBT-friendly"? 'Friendly' should surely suffice, as they are accepting of all types of people (as long as they're not assholes), as I said earlier.

  • jack_klugman #33 6 years ago

    Probably to weed out the shits who use the word "gay" as a casual slur.

  • asphaltcowboy #34 6 years ago

    They could just ban that word... filter it and all the potential alternatives...?

  • jack_klugman #35 6 years ago

    I'd rather they ban the people who use it in that way and allow people to create homosexual-friendly guilds while they're at it thanks.

  • LPXO #36 6 years ago

    Considering the scope of WoW I really wouldnt have thought this would be an issue. Whether or not this is intentional or a strict interpretation of the rules I don't know. Either way I can't see how anyone would be offended by a gay and lesbian friendly guilds.

  • jack_klugman #37 6 years ago

    The Chinese might.

  • Freek #38 6 years ago

    They are allowing the creation of gay friendly clan, they just can't activly promote it inside the game. The clan itself isn't the issue, nor are the people who join it, it's the promotion inside the game that isn't allowed. Promotion of the clan is allowed on the forum only.

  • Khab #39 6 years ago

    Blizzard have got their arse on backwards. By their logic, if I started a WoW-guild and said I'd be happy to let Swedish-born men in, I'd get a talking to.

  • justsomeone #40 6 years ago

    it really is depressing to read so many pig-ignorant, bigotted cretinous statements abounding, but then i guess a gaming site isn't the right place to discuss such issues, given that most of us are teenaged heterosexual males i suppose i should be amazed so many responded in a sensible fashion.

    a few points then. you cannot equate barring someone entry to a premises on the basis that they are drunk and/or disorderly, to barring them on the basis that they might be gay, black, white, straight or any other arbitrary criteria. the former case is within the law, whereas the latter will have you up against the EU court of human rights if you want to press the issue.

    freedom of speech is an inalienable right, even in europe.

    the WoW EULA was most definately not broken in respect to the guild advertising it in-game. surely no one, in their right mind, could equate a group of openly gay folks saying that they are friendly to gays, but not exclusively so, with any kind of sexual harrasment.

  • admir #41 6 years ago

    fuck the fags they always wanna be treated different. There should be no political, religious or what so ever guilds. its just a fucking game.
    if they (gays) get they guild then the nazis want to have a guild too. you get the point.
    Edited by admir at 30/01/06 @ 22:23

  • Drakron #42 6 years ago

    Imagine you are a playing with a PUG on SM and you get a wisper to joing a "gay friendly" guild ... is that not calling you gay?

    Problem with your example is that Swedish people dont have their own language forums and want to join so they can communicate better.

    Religion, politics and sex are topics that degenerate into open insults ... you think that someone starting a "gay friendly" guild starts to advertise it on general chat will not end up attracting flames? Its the same as you going to a message board and start a topic about homosexuality.

    Same happens with religion ... one of the people I hate is those damn Internet Christians that shove down their religion into everyone and I sould not even go into politics ... heck the whole Republics vs Democrats flame wars.
    Edited by Drakron at 30/01/06 @ 22:22

  • justsomeone #43 6 years ago

    "Imagine you are a playing with a PUG on SM and you get a wisper to joing a "gay friendly" guild ... is that not calling you gay? "

    no it isn't. imagine if one of your gay friends asks you to meet them down the pub, is he calling you gay? or if your german friend asks you to meet him down the pub, is he calling you german??? in any event, if you read the article, the initial post, or the forum post linked to in the article, you might have noted that this regarded a guild invite in general chat, not a whisper.

    "Religion, politics and sex are topics that degenerate into open insults ... you think that someone starting a "gay friendly" guild starts to advertise it on general chat will not end up attracting flames? Its the same as you going to a message board and start a topic about homosexuality."

    so you're saying that we simply should never discuss anything contentious since people might disagree with each other or, heaven forfend, state an opinion other than your own? or even just state an opinion.

    /sighs

  • Drakron #44 6 years ago

    Yes.

    Look at forums and how their TOS are worded ... you simply dont have any "rights", you have the privilege of posting and that is about it.

    Sure there are several forums that have very relaxed TOS and dont enforce then (I post in one of those) but the norm on large forums is the paranoid TOS of " ... but not limited to ..."

    What I stated is true ... politics, religion and sex are very conflicting subjects and quite frankly if you want to talk about then there are forums dedicated to such issues, a MMORPG would be the last place to talk about Torries, Beastiality and Islan.

  • archonsod #45 6 years ago

    "a few points then. you cannot equate barring someone entry to a premises on the basis that they are drunk and/or disorderly, to barring them on the basis that they might be gay, black, white, straight or any other arbitrary criteria. the former case is within the law, whereas the latter will have you up against the EU court of human rights if you want to press the issue."

    . In the case of a Nightclub, the manager\doormen can bar admission simply because they want to, and there isn't a damn thing the law can do about it. The club is their property, and they have as much right under the law (and indeed the same criteria applies) to refuse someone entry as you have to bar entry to your own home. The only time the law can step in is if another offence is committed while denying entry, and even then it is beyond the laws' power to force the owner to let you in.
    Its the same in WOW. You are not playing on publically owned and administrated servers. You are playing on Blizzard's own privately owned and managed servers. Blizzard are under no obligation to let anyone access the server at all if they choose not to. They are well within their rights to decide what you can and can't do on those servers. The only possible recourse to law is if Blizzard broke the terms of contract the WOW subscription is sold under.

  • smoison #46 6 years ago

    @admir: "fuck the fags they always wanna be treated different. There should be no political, religious or what so ever guilds. its just a fucking game.
    if they (gays) get they guild then the nazis want to have a guild too. you get the point."


    LOL

    I can very well see your point. None of these subjects need to be discussed in a GAME.

    And to the one who thinks GAME servers should have the same rights as in everyday life. You Are Crazy.

  • Scientist #47 6 years ago

    "given that most of us are teenaged"

    Is that so?
    That would explain the increasing number of ill-informed and childish comments on this site.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #48 6 years ago

    @Smoison & Admir - If you hadn't noticed, erm, the laws and rights that apply in the "real world" also apply to the online world. Any illegal activity you commit in a particular country is an illegal offence in that country.

    Oh, and "fuck the fags'?? Yeah, completely impartial opinion there... Twat

    Grow up and find out which of your mates are actually gay. The betting is that most people on here haven't even met a LGBT person to find out *shock horror* they're just the same as anybody else...

  • AtomicBanana Verified Level Designer, Playground Games #49 6 years ago

    'The betting is that most people on here haven't even met a LGBT person to find out *shock horror* they're just the same as anybody else...'

    Then, *shock horror* why do they want to be different from everyone else when it comes to a guild and their rights? It's so clearly asking for the kind of trouble the game just does not need. They can still have thier guild, they just have to be slightly more subtle about it - same applies for any guild like that.

  • The_Aardvark #50 6 years ago

    Two things:

    a) If you were turned away from a nightclub for being gay, or for being black, and you were told as much you would be able to take them to court and win instantly.

    b) Although MMOG players may not have legally enforcable rights similar to the above (although if Blizzard did ban gay players they would almost certainly be in breach of the law) this does not affect their 'moral' rights. Just because Blizzard can't be sued over this decision doesn't make it necessarily the right thing to do. I'm not gay but I'd consider joining an LGBT-friendly guild because it would mean no more 14 year old morons calling me a fag because I won 'their' drop (except of course that everyone in Bone Idol was sound as hell and I'd never want to join another guild but that's by the by. Bone Monkeys FTW - as soon as I get a new pooter).

  • smoison #51 6 years ago

    Smoison & Admir - If you hadn't noticed, erm, the laws and rights that apply in the "real world" also apply to the online world. Any illegal activity you commit in a particular country is an illegal offence in that country.

    Uhh, What? Are you saying when on a WoW server you have to know the laws of the country where ther server is?!?!?
    I REALLy don't think that is the case. A server is a PRIVATE place where Blizzard's
    rule apply. And if you play, then you've already agreed to that. (EULA)

    This is not a question of being a Bigit, its simply NOT THE RIGHT PLACE
    (other MMORPG's may be more adult oriented and allow sex in the game but NOT WoW)

  • mattius30 #52 6 years ago

    People, people, people - having a gay-friendly guild isn't for the purpose of talking about sex, having cyber sex or excluding the poor, put-upon straight players. It basically promotes a sense of belonging - something that can be difficult when 'gay' is used as a derogatory term or there is the fear of being rejected.

    I think the issue here is that Blizzard seems to consider the issue of 'gay' as a risky topic that should have all references removed from the actual game. I find the logic really bizarre - stopping the risk of homophobic gamers by removing all mention of LGBT players. I mean poor straight people - I guess if there weren't any gay people they wouldn't be 'forced' to have these homophobic opinions!

    Can I repeat - Having a gay guild has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with belonging. And while a lot of people have harped on about WoW just 'being a game'. It is - but it involves real people, with real opinions. And a guild should be allowed to promote itself within the game - if only to protect players from the kind of juvenile little virgins here who use terms like 'f*cking fags'. These are the ones who should be gagged - not the people that want to play an ace MMORPG in peace.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #53 6 years ago

    Well, perhaps if the online community was less of a homophobic place, as most people accept, then people wouldn't be attempting to make steps to create more hospitable environments to play in.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #54 6 years ago

    Very well said, Mattius30

  • jack_klugman #55 6 years ago

    Very well said indeed mattius30

  • dk_rare #56 6 years ago

    I am gay and LOVE videogames. I have been thinking about playing World of Warcraft for some time now, but have been a little undecided. I think this was enough to put of off WoW though. Like some people have already said, it is hard enough for us to feel accepted in this world as it is and I have always considered videogames as a kind of perfect indiscriminate escape from the world. Videogames have never cared if I was black, white, gay, straight, Chinese or Australian. I could feel perfectly accepted and catered for in The Sims, my male Sim could have a boyfriend, marry that boy, have children of our own AND work in politics!

    I wouldn’t deprive myself of a videogaming experience to make some statement to the world, which would be letting them win. No, it is because I just don’t feel that I would want to pay for summat that excludes or punishes me just for being myself. If I wanted to feel excluded or diminished within myself I think I would go back to high school, or attend a fundamentalist church.

    Being gay is an important and integral part of myself and I take it for granted and enjoy it as much as the air we all breath (as in I don’t think about it ALL the time, but it is ALWAYS me). When summat comes along and disrupts that, tries to make me feel excluded, punished or different for being “me”… well naturally it hurts deep.

    - dk_rare
    Edited by dk_rare at 31/01/06 @ 11:24

  • Ignatius_Cheese #57 6 years ago

    Nicely put, dk_rare :o)

  • rinoaMW #58 6 years ago

    "I am gay and LOVE videogames. I have been thinking about playing World of Warcraft for some time now, but have been a little undecided. I think this was enough to put of off WoW though. Like some people have already said, it is hard enough for us to feel accepted in this world as it is and I have always considered videogames as a kind of perfect indiscriminate escape from the world. Videogames have never cared if I was black, white, gay, straight, Chinese or Australian."

    then why does playing an MMORPG have to be any different? Granted these are real people playing and not NPC's but you shouldn't even have to bring your sexuality into it.

    If you feel strongly about it, join a Role-Playing sever and create an alter-ego - then nobody will care :)

    in my honest opinion tho, WoW isn't the place to spout religous, political or Sexual Orientaional veiws (and i can see blizzards point of veiw on this), its a place where ALL gamers can play together in a safe world, and all the anonymity that it brings...

  • Ninjamagic #59 6 years ago

    I am with Blizzard on this.

    Simple.English.

    "If other groups cant advertise and collectively get together officially in the game (as opposed to forums where you can do what you want)".

    Then so this rule should apply to Gays. Or Blacks. Or Pinks. Or Blues. Or whatever colour in this beautifull world you are.

    Stonewall is always on about equality and equal rights for all eh?

    Well this IS equal rights (if no other group gets it you shouldnt). If they DID get it.

    It would be "unequal rights" and actually special favouritism and the like, which is exactly what Stonewall want by playing the "Gay card".

    Keep it out of games thank you.

    Sincerely,
    Ninjamagic

  • Stormflood_UK #60 6 years ago

    @dk_rare

    Try here: http://wow.roughtrade.ws/

    It really doesn't take a genius to find a LGBT friendly guild/server. Even a out-of-the-loop straight guy like me traced that story back to: http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Ga&article_code=1149

    And considering there are many other LGBT-friendly clans, and 'unofficially' gay servers, I think this entire story is just bullshit kicked up by a gay rights group that is more interested in self promotion and gratification than doing any real good. Just like ANY rights group, they soon become obsessed at finding intolerance where there is none, and pissing everyone off at the same time.

    Play online. Be open. Report idiots. Find friends. Be happy.
    Edited by Stormflood_UK at 31/01/06 @ 12:47

  • Ignatius_Cheese #61 6 years ago

    @rinoa - It isn't the issue of being "open" or spouting your sexual orientation, religious beliefs etc. but more the fact that online gaming communities often have members that don't hold back in dispencing quite offensive homophobic, racial hatred which no-one should have to put up with. If some people feel it is better for them to be around people online who have similar opinions and beliefs then so be it. But no-one should have to put up with being ridiculed and bullied in their own homes. And that is something that Blizzard should face up to. They have a duty of care to gamers paying for their games and the online services they provide and the inability to do that shows a very poor attitude towards their own gaming community.

  • Ninjamagic #62 6 years ago

    DK_RARE

    So you DO want special treatment for being Gay?

    By not allowing other groups in Blizzard the rights to do so, but only for an exclusively for Gays (which is what would happen if you had your way).

    You have just proved my point about Stonewall.

    Stormflood has got it spot on.

    This is all about "Stonewall" and extra PR for them. Whos gives a sh*t about:

    1) World of Warcraft
    2) Blizzard

    ie> The actual game.

  • Khanivor #63 6 years ago

    Something else to consider: fortressing yourself in a gay-friendly guild is depriving the nobends of the chance to be exposed to the reality that gay people are gamers just like straight folk. If each guild had a few open gay folk in them the incidences of homophobia would dwindle as peeps got themselves exposed to and educated about sexuality.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #64 6 years ago

    "feel the butt end of it..."

    /sniggers

    Soz, was just trying to lighten the tone...

    Nah, I see where most people (apart from the "phobes" out there, will never understand that...) are coming from and, personally, choose to avoid online communities that have the very issues that obviously good-minded people are attempting to rectify with the concept of LGBT clans.

    As has been said before, to do such a things only draws attention to the ignorant out there (and, let's face it, we're dealing with a HELL of a lot of US teens...) and gives them more fire to spout uninformed crap about something they know nothing about.

    Being gay and fairly open about it in the gaming community has never caused me any aggravation in the 5 to 6 years or so that I've been "out" but, for some people, it isn't quite as easy as that.

    In an ideal world, we wouldn't need any sort of LGBT organisations (and all Stonewall employees would be out of work...) but we live in a world of ignorance, conservative opinions and very backward thinking. Until there's a day when anyone can do anything they want without repercussions then people will either have to put up or shut up. But if they need support then there should be the right channels in place to be able to communicate and understand each other's way of thinking.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #65 6 years ago

    @Khanivor - Yes, I can see where you are coming from that it may seem that people are purposefully segregating themselves from the larger community but would they be doing this unless there was external pressure for them to do it? Again, in an ideal online gaming world, you would have some gay members to clans to balance everything out but some people are always going to want to make an issue out of it. However, I can't and won't defend all LGBT people as some of them, blatantly, bring things upon themselves by their unnecessary attitude.

  • Madder-Max #66 6 years ago

    I'm sorry if anyone takes offence to this but not only do gay rights activists get the words marriage and wedding banned from Registrar offices but now they are meddling with a fictional world. Dunno about anyone else but this stuff is really starting to piss me off!

  • Seweryn #67 6 years ago

    "currently 69 comments on this article"

    What a nice number .

  • rinoaMW #68 6 years ago

    you all have some good veiws on this subject, but i still seem to be missing the bigger picture. You say you want to play with and be a part of a guild with like minded individuels, but as a gamer, surely that is the case? Im sure i have nothing in common with alot of my like-minded hetrosexuel guildy's apart from the fact that we like to play games, and we play wow. I don't see why you need to group together in a herd, just because of a like-minded sexuality...why do u feel that you need to join these groups, if not to talk about matters other than wow. In my guild we only talk about matters of the guild, Quest, Instances, help each other out, etc, but never anything more...

    Why do you feel that you have to seek out that extra element of a common bond? I have gay friends that play, and they don't feel the need to find others. We are united as gamers, who share a common interest in that of wow. We don't need to discuss anything else, because for those few hours i play a night, i'm just playing a game, and my interest is nothing more than that game.

    If you are searching for acceptence in a different world, becuase you can't find it in the real one, i'm sorry, but i'm afraid that you won't find it in Azeroth....

  • rinoaMW #69 6 years ago

    also, just to add :)

    as it says in the WoW Policy rules:

    "The bottom line is that we want World of Warcraft to be a fun and safe environment for all players. World of Warcraft is an MMORPG, and the key words are "Massively Multiplayer." In playing this game, you will encounter thousands of other players who share different experiences and come from vastly different backgrounds. While a certain name or comment may not be offensive to you, consider the fact that that it might have a completely different effect on someone else. We've done everything we can to make this a great game but now it's up to you, the players, to breathe life into the world. Choose wisely my friends. "

    so it says it all really... you might think of it as inoffensive to shout out about LGBT guilds, but obviously some people have a problem about it, and that means it should be left out of wow. Maybe Blizz were wrong to cite the Sexual Offence part of thier charter at Sara Andrews , but after this, im sure there will be changes to it very soon....
    Edited by rinoaMW at 31/01/06 @ 15:04

  • Stormflood_UK #70 6 years ago

    @Ignatius_Cheese
    I didn't realise you were gay. Of course, now I'll have to alter my perception of you and read your posts aloud in a camp Welsh 'Little Britain' voice ;)

    Seriously though, I think this whole subject is bigger than this thread and videogaming all together. I also don't believe Blizzard are doing anything wrong, but they're not doing it right either.

  • reality_cheque #71 6 years ago

    ManicMiner: No, but neither would you have to put up with people advertising a black-friendly guild. But that's not the point.

    I actually like the sound of WoW more now - because the main thing I can gather is it's not allowed to advertise ANY GUILD in game. Having played Guild Wars and being forced to turn off public chat just so I'm not spammed by 10042424894x10e morons who want me to join their guild so they can feel the big man.

    Advertising your guild in WoW as gay friendly is just like advertising your guild as being warrior friendly i.e. damn annoying to people who already have a guild, and thus not allowed.

    I'm neither gay, nor homophobic and I support Blizzard in this. If they state in their EULA that advertising guilds is a no no, then I don't care if you're a black/asian half-caste lesbian woman with no legs, every disease under the sun and therefore the most minority-type person in the history of ever - it's not allowed. If they stated that using insulting language isn't allowed - then it's not allowed. Simple.

    If people being homophobic/racist bothers you, report the fuckers. Get them banned. Job done, BLTG-friendly guild no longer necessary! :D

    The gay part = not relevant.
    Edited by reality_cheque at 31/01/06 @ 15:59

  • rinoaMW #72 6 years ago

    @ManicMiner

    Yikes - i didn't say _I_ find it offensive, just that some people obviously do. Someone must have shouted out in general (thats global chat :) , and someone was offended enough to have reported them. You'd be surprised how many of these matters Blizz have to sort through, but decided that in their infinate wisdom that sexuality has no place in wow, and given Sara Andrews a written warning, so to speak.

    Also to say; "society as a whole should be going OUT OF ITS WAY to force these people to confront their own prejudices as often as possible. "

    Society isn't going out of its way to force these people to confront their own prejudices in REAL LIFE - so i don't know how your gonna persude a bunch of gamers with a demograph of ages 12 - 50 to accept them...

    "Suppose I'm a total racist, full on KKK style, and I find black people offensive.. Can I have a "whites only" server to play on, least one of "them" comes along and offends me?"

    and your sarcasm is wasted on me, Racism actually exists in the game and is rife. Wars are forged just because another factions avatar looks different and has a different langage... BUT the real person behind that avatar doesn't matter - theres no ill feelings towards them, be it black, white, chinese, muslim, hindu, christian, stright, gay, alien... we are all just gamers getting along and united by the game.

    and thats how it should be for this... but the moment someone brings a real life element into the game, then it has no place in this world...

  • Ninjamagic #73 6 years ago

    MadderMax

    If you dont agree with them or are different that makes you a "phobe". They are just as good at painting others as they are claim to be painted by them.

    Why bring this into WOW or Games? Thats my point and only Stonewall has itself to blame. Just like some ppl play the race card to suit their own ends every time they dont get what they want.

    They now doing the same, and probably done a lot more damage TO the perception of gays in gaming,than any homophobe ever could.

    Damned if you do - Damned if you dont.

  • SirScratchalot #74 6 years ago

    @Drakron...
    No I´m saying countries have legislation detailing who can be thrown out and for what reasons. You can´t make your own rules up.

  • rinoaMW #75 6 years ago

    "Advertising your guild in WoW as gay friendly is just like advertising your guild as being warrior friendly i.e. damn annoying to people who already have a guild, and thus not allowed."

    actually this does happen but im not sure of the legality of it :)

    thats it! i'm writting to Blizzard, how dare they let such Classist people into the game... how dare they! Hmmpff!!!!!!!!


    :p

  • rinoaMW #76 6 years ago

    "amazing social aspect of MMORPG's"

    well.. within context, yes - BUT the broader market it reaches the more careful you have to be.

    Oh and by the way these are Blizzards words not mine;

    "In playing this game, you will encounter thousands of other players who share different experiences and come from vastly different backgrounds. While a certain name or comment may not be offensive to you, consider the fact that that it might have a completely different effect on someone else."

    Its part of _THEIR_ rules not _OURS_ so everybody has to adhere to them regardless, and if you don't like it you'll get banned. I know you play alot of XBOX Live, and i bet they have almost the exact same policy when it comes to things like this... but i bet you won't deny the social aspect of that, right?

    I won't even start on your mis-interpretation of the word 'They'...
    Edited by rinoaMW at 31/01/06 @ 16:32

  • Ignatius_Cheese #77 6 years ago

    If nothing else, this thread of comments as given me the opportunity of "ignoring" a few of the smaller minded people out there. Cheers for that guys :o)

  • Madder-Max #78 6 years ago

    I've gone right off the idea of playing WOW now. Sounds too much like real life what with all the gold-farming, ownership....etc...

  • Ignatius_Cheese #79 6 years ago

    Wouldn't worry about it, Madder Max... It's either full of spotty uber-geeks or queers. Not worth it... :oP

  • Stormflood_UK #80 6 years ago

    Meh.... I gave up playing WoW a long time ago due to it being incredibly time-consuming (see: boring), so I don't even know why I'm bothering to air a viewpoint.

    And if I haven't been assigned to anyone's ignore list, my XBL friends list is always open to any gaming fan of any sexual orientation. And take note: it's an atheist-friendly list :)

  • dudefella #81 6 years ago

    ok I haven't read all these comments and only the first half of the newspost but my question is:

    how does singling out gay people by having them all congregate in their separate guilds promote acceptance? Wouldn't simply accepting them in any guild show more acceptance?

  • reality_cheque #82 6 years ago

    Dudefella: Probably. In a sane world the fact that someone is gay/straight/black/white/blue/christian/buddist/flyingspagettimonsterist wouldn't matter, but sadly it does because people get all upset about "the gays" corrupting civilisation.

    Like civilisation didn't do enough corrupting of itself before people were open about their sexuality...

    OOT, I would guess you're a penny arcade reader? :)