Bizarre takes on PGR3 critics

By Ellie Gibson Published 29 June, 2005

It really WILL look that good.

Bizarre Creations has hit back at critics who claimed that a screenshot from Project Gotham 3 released last week couldn't possibly be the real deal. You can see the pic in question here.

According to an update on Bizarre's website, "This is what what people can genuinely expect from the next generation of video games... We're not messing with you."

And in a bid to prove it, they've stuck up a wire frame version of the same scene, along with a screenshot of a different NYC building.

"Yes, it is possible to get all areas of the game that need it up to this level of detail," says Bizarre.

"That’s what you get for two years' work with up to 35 artists here at Bizarre, plus additional help from outsourcing companies!

"Some areas (ie. those with simple buildings in real life) won’t be as detailed, but where buildings are that complex, the game will be that complex too."

You can read the full update here.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (75) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • sephy #1 7 years ago

    hmm this is an xbox360 titles, so no one will claim its a mock up, despite the official line....

    Now, if this was on ps3.....

  • octo #2 7 years ago

    If it was on PS3 it would be played with a batarang and serving you beef burgers.

  • killyourtv #3 7 years ago

    smiles and nods

  • HairyArse #4 7 years ago

    That screenshot isn't particularly amazing to be honest so why wouldn't Xbox 360 be capable of graphics of that standard?

  • Pirotic #5 7 years ago

    so xbox 360 can put a dozen high-res textures on a few cubes? wow, incredible, get me one of those!.

  • Scimarad #6 7 years ago

    " hmm this is an xbox360 titles, so no one will claim its a mock up, despite the official line....

    Now, if this was on ps3....."


    That is definitely true

  • Teeth #7 7 years ago

    It looks all right, I'll be interested to see if it's finally lit like that though - it says in the update that one of the guys "rendered" the picture out (and that the final lighting methods aren't yet known) - whether that means he took it directly off the dev kit hardware rendering it out, or took the artwork that they use on the dev kit and rendered it out from Max or whatever with all the diffuse lighting that those packages now employ to make things look uber-sweet, is what I'd like to find out.
    Edited by 1 at 29/06/05 @ 17:58

  • davidstop #8 7 years ago

    I dont think this looks that impressive really, its just some nice texture work. The models themselves are very low detail. The lighting probably will look like that in game, since it will be baked in. That is, complicated soft lighting calculations are done and the results saved into the texture.

  • bumgut #9 7 years ago

    Will it be at 60fps though?

    Will it fuck.

  • Nikanoru #10 7 years ago

    What's so special about this?

    I'm still seeing objects that are supposed to be 3D, simply drawn onto a texture, like the windows. That, and the use of very little polygons lends a "cardboard world" feel to it, which is something that has been plagueing 3D since its birth.

    Also, some of the textures look blurry. Look at the red sign on the lower right.

    Yeah, it's a nice looking screenshot. For a current gen console, or a PC game. But I would have hoped that with all the fucking hype the "next generation" would eliminate those problems. Hell, I was hoping that THIS generation they would stop substituting textures for 3D objects.

    I'm not impressed, and I'm baffled as to why so many people are. Oh wait, I can guess why - people are impressionable, and what the PR hype says about the screenshot has more influence on their amazement than the actual quality of it.

  • manuel_garcia #11 7 years ago

    or possibly your too cynical and maybe games have lost their 'magic' for you?

  • HarryB #12 7 years ago

    60fps will be on all launch titles, i could bet you now
    they do not want a bad impression made on the hardware from the launch... all titles will be smooth

  • Sid-Nice #13 7 years ago

    HairyArse[mod] wrote:That screenshot isn't particularly amazing to be honest so why wouldn't Xbox 360 be capable of graphics of that standard?

    Yes the graphics will be this good, as PGR 3 is coming out on 15 DVD disks. :)

  • Inquisitor #14 7 years ago

    I think the shot looks pretty good but I always think windows could be better done. They never have that see through feel. Even just having a few open (not having those stupid white curtains in them) would improve the realism of the scene.

  • Teeth #15 7 years ago

    "coming out on 15 DVD disks. :)"

    LOL. Remember all those games that came out with rendered racetracks? I actually had Megarace bundled with one of my family's computers at the time. Used to think the presenter guy in that was pretty funny, actually...

  • haru #16 7 years ago

    here are the wireframes
    http://www.gamekult.com/tout/actus/articles/A0000042 079.html

    anyway, who cares seriously about backgrounds ? players who use Zac's gameglove ??
    Edited by 1 at 29/06/05 @ 19:14

  • Aretak #17 7 years ago

    It looks no better than Shenmue II...

  • Wash #18 7 years ago

    lol, at that detail with miles of track from various cities. Non-carboard spectators that react to your racing. Thats just the background details of which all will be going past at 100mph.

    Have a little faith cynical people.

  • Xerx3s #19 7 years ago

    In the beginning i thought that this was looking amazing, but the longer i look at it,.... it isnt that great. A couple of low polygon boxes with highres textures over them, and good special effects over the textures. To spice up the detail, minor things have been added such as fireescapes. Dont get me wrong, it looks good! And im definitly looking ou for this game, but it isnt something that will take everything from a next gen machine. Even the ps3 would most likely be able to render this game somehow.

  • Yaz #20 7 years ago

    "hmm this is an xbox360 titles, so no one will claim its a mock up, despite the official line.... Now, if this was on ps3....."

    What do you mean no one will claim it's a mock up? They DID make that claim! Some claimed it wasn't real, hence this responce from Bizarre Creations towards the critics. XBox360 isn't being treated any differently to PS3 here.

    The difference between this and Killzone was that when questioned about it being realtime or not, neither Sony or Guerilla would confirm that what we saw was Killzone running in realtime on PS3 hardware. 6 weeks later, we all know why! ;)

  • phAge #21 7 years ago

    " hmm this is an xbox360 titles, so no one will claim its a mock up, despite the official line....

    Now, if this was on ps3....."


    That is definitely true

    And this is odd why? So far, MS have been pretty up front about what at E3 was pre-rendered and what wasn't, whereas Sony *still* hasn'y come clean. If someone has lied to you before, isn't it natural to distrust them in the future?

    (Note: I'm NOT trying to get *that* discussion going again, I'm merely asking a question).

  • Freek #22 7 years ago

    Woah, that looks allot different, super sharp texutres in that one. For example look at the Park sign in the top left and the bricks. Compared to the new one they released.

  • #23 7 years ago

    ' This is a 3d model, bungie have put the wireframe up on their website to prove it.'

    what's bungie got to do with it? :p

    Killzone devs take note, THIS is how to produce GENUINE graphical beauty.

  • Nikanoru #24 7 years ago

    Jesus Christ people, you don't have to be cynical to see that it just looks low-poly. Hell, you can count them in the wireframe shot.

    Like I said: cardboard world.

    When I read the title I was honestly hoping for something "next gen". I always am. And then I get a screenshot of a bunch of photos from the side of a building pasted some big flat quads. Amazing.


    But really, it looks good enough! It's just them acting as if it's so unbelievable that they need to tell us it is in fact real, and then a bunch of fanboys actually taking the bait, that pisses me off.

  • souljah #25 7 years ago

    "Killzone devs take note, THIS is how to produce GENUINE graphical beauty. "

    I thought that Killzone showing at E3 was genuine graphical beauty. Or are you saying that the characters shown were real actors?

  • Wash #26 7 years ago

    "you don't have to be cynical to see that it just looks low-poly. Hell, you can count them in the wireframe shot"

    Yup and it still looks fan ruddy tastic. I mean i dont know about you but thats the best backdrops a racing game has recieved to date. I'd understand if you could interact with them and having them more complex. To achieve that with such low poly models is good, means they can spend more processing power on things that matter without losing that next gen spank.

    Physics, AI, Cars themselves.

    PGR2 is one of the best looking games this gen, so to be thinking that pgr3 is gonna be a slouch is foolish. BC make good games.

  • spindizzy #27 7 years ago

    Hang on, so let mesee if I've got this straight: this is what was released originally: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/741/741362/img_ 2881647.html

    And this is what is now being presented as the 'real' render:
    http://www.bizarreonline.net/news/images/stud ioupdate/nyshotnew.jpg

    But the first one was WAY better, and frankly that if that is in-game graphics I will be very impressed indeed. It's not just AA or anything - look at the bricks in the left hand building in both images. So what's going on? I can't believe they come from the same graphics engine?

  • Freek #28 7 years ago

    Essentailly what they're saying is: "You're right it won't look that good, it will look like this, wich is still pretty nice"

  • valli #29 7 years ago

    Half Life 2 looks better than that.

    ...and why on Earth are they showing off a building side in a racer game? Show us at least some track details.

  • valli #30 7 years ago

    Killzone devs take note, THIS is how to produce GENUINE graphical beauty.

    Other posters take note, THIS is how to produce GENUINE laughter.

  • teamonkey #31 7 years ago

    "...and why on Earth are they showing off a building side in a racer game? Show us at least some track details."

    http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/0 6/xbox-360-lie-watch-project-gotham.html

  • Wash #32 7 years ago

    "Half Life 2 looks better than that."

    I always knew HL2 was a racing game :$, ok i'll counter with "weeell the vehicles in pgr3 looks better than teh ones in hl2"
    Edited by 1 at 29/06/05 @ 23:34

  • #33 7 years ago

    'Other posters take note, THIS is how to produce GENUINE laughter.'

    yet more personal attacks rather than game related debate.

    it's sad really, still, i'm sure i'll get warned about flame baiting...

  • penhalion #34 7 years ago

    Looks fine to me. A bit blocky mind. Lots of wasted textures that will simply be wizzing by.

    I recon the textures will be lower res in the finished game as otherwise it's just a waste of memory on the background stuff instead of more detail on the cars and roads.

  • Genji #35 7 years ago

    Cars? Roads?? Who cares about the racing when you can look at scenery this pretty?? Project Gotham 3: The Scenic Route. That's the future!

  • DaveT #36 7 years ago

    Feh, wonder how much that's costing to make. Money well spent, on textures you should only see for a few milliseconds at that high res. Woo.

    (And secondly, why do both shots need to look up, when that's a camera angle never required in racers, surely it'd be more sencible to show some of this 'road' stuff)

  • Talha #37 7 years ago

    This is just a piece of self-serving hype, sort of like OurColony 2. What is so special about it? Cardboard world is the best way to describe it. People are going ga-ga over it when you can get pretty much similar deal in today's PGR2. HEll, for heaven's sake someone use the Photo mode in GT4 (gasp!) on the NY track and while the result won't be as good, it will be PRETTY CLOSE and it will have the added bonus of a CAR in it, which last time I checked was the whole point of a racing game.

  • kflarsen #38 7 years ago

    OK, can someone help me out here regarding fps?

    A normal interlaced TV picture is updated 60 times per second, but only HALF of the frame is rendered in each update. That means that it is only possible to display 30 fps unless you have progressive scan.

    So why do I keep hearing people complain that games don't run at 60 fps, when this isn't even possible? Is it because they all have progressive scan? Or are they talking out of their collective arse?

  • Wash #39 7 years ago

    "This is just a piece of self-serving hype, sort of like OurColony 2."

    Granted arent all screenshots there to hype a game. This has got so much attention because nobody believed it was in game, then bungie release a 2nd with wireframes accompanying and now its not very good :\ go figure.

    "What is so special about it?"

    Well for one its much much better than wots currently seen in racing games. Also if they're making the background this pretty, which lbh it is, then the actual racing elements must be pretty good looking.

    "Cardboard world is the best way to describe it"

    Still, its the best looking cardboard we've seen in a racing game to date.

  • Blerk #40 7 years ago

    Hang on, so let mesee if I've got this straight: this is what was released originally: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/741/741362/img_ 2881647.html

    And this is what is now being presented as the 'real' render:
    http://www.bizarreonline.net/news/images/stud ioupdate/nyshotnew.jpg

    To my eyes, that IGN one is a real photograph of the scene and the one here on EG is the in-game representation. Did someone get their shots and captions mixed up over at IGN? :-)
    Edited by 1 at 30/06/05 @ 09:14

  • Master Cheif #41 7 years ago

    Fine Nikanoru you make a background for a racing game better than this. I hate ppl who bitch, have you seen the fninshed product? NO have you played it? NO so why bitch? are you better thab Bizzare? amd if so why arent you making tons of cash??

  • Eraser #42 7 years ago

    I don't see what's so special about that screenshot. It's a couple of buildings....

  • Grom #43 7 years ago

    "I recon the textures will be lower res in the finished game as otherwise it's just a waste of memory on the background stuff instead of more detail on the cars and roads."

    Why? If you can have that kind of texture detail for free how is it a waste of memory? If you have a budget for 60fps or 30fps you might as well use all that budget - it's not as if there's a little monkey living inside the console who will be happier if you leave a few cycles idle.

    "Feh, wonder how much that's costing to make. Money well spent, on textures you should only see for a few milliseconds at that high res. Woo."

    You obviously know a lot if you think it takes longer to produce a 512x512 photosourced texture than the same thing at 256x256. Show me a game artist who doesn't have all his/her source psds at 512 or 1024 and I will show you an artist at a dead end studio.

    Hey why don't we just have flat shaded boxes instead of textured buildings! The track's the only important thing after all!!!

  • JHuxley #44 7 years ago

    "To my eyes, that IGN one is a real photograph of the scene and the one here on EG is the in-game representation. Did someone get their shots and captions mixed up over at IGN? :-)"

    They look roughly comparable to me. Remember, this is just a few hi-res textures slapped on a little basic geometry. Frankly if the next-gen consoles weren't capable of something similar I'd be very concerned.

  • valli #45 7 years ago

    A normal interlaced TV picture is updated 60 times per second, but only HALF of the frame is rendered in each update.

    All true, however the half is not the upper or lower half, but each other scanline. The result is a picture with lower vertial resolution but moving at 60 fps. On fast games it makes a HUGE difference and is a must. IMO.

  • Dizzy #46 7 years ago

    Nikanoru please stop before you sound even more stupid.

    This is not some model from a FPS.. it is just a stupid background in a racing game. A lot of people are shocked at the amount of detail/polygons Bizarre has "free" to throw at the scenery. That is why a lot of people don'"t believe that it is real.

  • tpfkanep #47 7 years ago

    Hey why don't we just have flat shaded boxes instead of textured buildings! The track's the only important thing after all!!!
    /Sigh
    Don't you get it, Grom? I played CMR4.0 (PS2) some time ago. Got disturbed while playing. Left the controller to do my thing. When I returned, I found myself in some bushes. Onscreen I saw that the "individual blades of grass" were animated. I was wowed. Restarted the track, and never thought about it again.

    Until now.

    The track is the only important thing in a racer. Just like the field is the most important thing in a sports game. If developers are now already emphasizing stuff like background detail and road surfaces, ... Will that be the only purpose of the new powerhouses? To create more detailed background images, which has no bearing on how the game is played?

  • Blerk #48 7 years ago

    They look roughly comparable to me. Remember, this is just a few hi-res textures slapped on a little basic geometry. Frankly if the next-gen consoles weren't capable of something similar I'd be very concerned.

    Ah, it wasn't a dig - the screenie looks very nice indeed and I'm certain the 360 will be able to pull it off just as they claim. It's just not 'as nice' as IGN's version.

  • kflarsen #49 7 years ago

    valli: So the choice is between 480 lines at 30 fps or "240" lines at 60 fps. Fair enough, although the last option can produce weird "double picture" effects on many TVs (including mine), and 240 lines is a VERY low resolution these days.

  • Grom #50 7 years ago

    Well I won't waste any more cunning hyperbole on Eurogamer, but that aside...

    "The track is the only important thing in a racer. Just like the field is the most important thing in a sports game. If developers are now already emphasizing stuff like background detail and road surfaces, ... Will that be the only purpose of the new powerhouses? To create more detailed background images, which has no bearing on how the game is played?"

    I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. How can you add detail to, say, a representation of Suzuka or Silverstone when you have built it to a level of detail where adding more polygons doesn't make any difference? The idea of a racer like PGR3 or GT4 or Forza is to portray as realistically as possible the experience of driving cars. What exactly can you add to that beyond a certain point? In a purely VISUAL sense (because after all we are discussing screenshots here) there is a point of extreme diminishing returns when adding more detail to the track does not make any measurable difference to the player's experience.

    However you can work on the periphery of the game, how the cars look and how the backgrounds look. Why not try and make these as realistic as possible to help immerse the player in the game world?

    I really don't see your point - what more can they do to the track? Make it go upside down? Turn corkscrews? Change the gravity?

    How the game plays is a completely separate issue - I'm sure Bizarre's programmers are quite capable of improving the handling and simulation aspects of the game without needing artists to help them code. Why should you resent detailed environments in a racing game when you are getting it for free along with an improved racing simulation?

    WHY DO YOU HATE THESE SCREENSHOTS SO MUCH!!?? You don't even know how the game will play, you just want something to moan about so you say 'oh well the graphics are really good now so obviously they are skimping on the gameplay, I'm sure it will be the same as PGR2 or perhaps even worse!! Games look better but play worse every generation AM I RITE?'

  • deaner #51 7 years ago

    Some of the textures look a bit crap.

  • tpfkanep #52 7 years ago

    Why not try and make these as realistic as possible to help immerse the player in the game world?
    - I suppose some gamers need that crutch. How much more do they want to be immersed? Do they not get that feeling of being transported to another world/dimension everytime they play? Or are the "unrealistic" backgrounds of their games distracting them to such an extent that they do not enjoy the games that they currently play?

    WHY DO YOU HATE THESE SCREENSHOTS SO MUCH!!?? You don't even know how the game will play,
    - True.

    you just want something to moan about so you say 'oh well the graphics are really good now so obviously they are skimping on the gameplay,
    - Did I say that?

    Games look better but play worse every generation AM I RITE?
    - No. (Most) games look better but play the same every generation.

    Edited by 1 at 30/06/05 @ 10:27

  • Blerk #53 7 years ago

    Neither of them look as nice as the one in the actual screenshot gallery on bizarre's site...here

    You're right!

    "Would the real screenshot please stand up?"

  • kaosridder #54 7 years ago

    agreed grom. Some people in here are......well.....pathetic i guess. I bet if I gave them Heidi Klum they would go "OMG SHE IS SOOOO AVERAGE. SOOOO LOWPOLY!!!!". People dont seem to realize that PGR3 is a racing game. I have never seen so detailed backgrounds. Some in the GT-series perhaps but that was pictures.
    I have been playing games since the zx spectrum. Maybe thats required to appreciate the strides gaming have taken in the past 2 decades and not turn in to some whining bitch.

  • tpfkanep #55 7 years ago

    kaosridder, since you have been a gamer for so long:
    I have been playing games since the zx spectrum. Maybe thats required to appreciate the strides gaming have taken in the past 2 decades and not turn in to some whining bitch.
    - Name some of the strides that gaming has made over the past two decades.

  • ScoutTech #56 7 years ago

    Wonder how many people forgot to enlarge the picture in the browser before complaining about low rez blocky picture

    /ducks

  • Boomzilla #57 7 years ago

    Did you people even TRY checking this whole PGR3-screens deal in detail? It's actually all explained on their webside. Why the different shots.

    "As for the new/old screenshot, please accept my sincere apologies. It was just taken quickly to line up with the wireframe, and it looks like it's fallen foul of the dreaded mip-mapping bug. But, as has been mentioned already, this is a work in progress and we occassionally do get bugs in the system. At least this proves to you that PGR3 is a real game and not just a bunch of photographs." - Ben, Bizarre

    In any case, fantastic background details for a racing game.
    Edited by 1 at 30/06/05 @ 11:50

  • valli #58 7 years ago

    although the last option can produce weird "double picture" effects on many TVs (including mine)

    Yes, certain 100Hz tvs don't like that at all. Interlace is a thing that belongs to the past for sure, still it's a great way to achieve fluid motion. We'll have to stick to it until we:

    1. get progressive frames at 50/60/higher (not in next gen TVs either)
    2. true motion blur computed by the console hardware

    I suspect 2. is around the corner, the photo mode of GT4 does very nice motion blur but at something like 0,5fps! :)

  • The-Bodybuilder #59 7 years ago

    In all the boards I've been to so far, no place has as many cynical & whinging members as the EG board.
    This is not attack on EG, but how do you guys manage attract these pathetic people who are never happy with anything?

  • tpfkanep #60 7 years ago

    The Bodybuilder not happy with the EG members not happy: Pot, kettle, black. If you are so happy, share the happiness... instead of moaning... come on, don't be shy...!?!

    If you do not want to: Fuck off to the other boards where there are happy ppl.

  • reflux #61 7 years ago

    Seems like the trailer is done...

  • tpfkanep #62 7 years ago

    I dunno if the trailer is any indication of what will happen in game: Did anyone notice the scenerery in the link of reflux on that picture?
    Edited by 1 at 30/06/05 @ 13:27

  • The-Bodybuilder #63 7 years ago

    >"If you do not want to: Fuck off to the other boards where there are happy ppl."

    Oh I'll share the happiness.
    You see, to gain the happiness, one must HAVE A LIFE. One must not become an overcynical twat who seems to never be happy about anything. Do not be the kind of person that gets a ferrari, only to moan that it's "too red".

    I also find it funny how, without even mentioning your name, you instantly knew you were one of the people I was talking about.
    You're probably used to your family and friends calling you a winger, which is why you could identify yourself.

    P.S: I like the forum, why should I leave for the select few of "super whingers"?

  • tpfkanep #64 7 years ago

    I also find it funny how, without even mentioning your name, you instantly knew you were one of the people I was talking about.
    - I have super powers.

    You're probably used to your family and friends calling you a winger, which is why you could identify yourself.
    - No, I am not a winger. Altho I love the odd chicken wing.

    OK, on to business:
    You see, to gain the happiness, one must HAVE A LIFE. One must not become an overcynical twat who seems to never be happy about anything. Do not be the kind of person that gets a ferrari, only to moan that it's "too red".
    - Thanks for imparting your wisdom about happiness, oh happy one. What I meant was: You come here and moan about ppl not being satisfied about what's happening to a game. Instead of rebutting those sentiments with your thoughts, you label ppl as cynical and unhappy....

    BTW: How do you define: HAVE A LIFE? Esp. how does it tie in with happiness. Are the two closely related? If I am unhappy, does that mean I do not HAVE A LIFE? Does my life have to conform to certain standards to be termed: happy? Who set up these standards?

    P.S: I like the forum, why should I leave for the select few of "super whingers"?
    - Good for you! And remember: [Ignore Poster] is your friend!

  • Nikanoru #65 7 years ago

    /shakes head

    I guess I'm just wasting my time as all this falls on deaf ears anyway, but nobody is complaining about the redness of their ferrari. I'll repeat it once more: I just hate the empty hype. And the people who perpetuate it. Toy Story renders on the PS2, goddammit!

  • captain-future #66 7 years ago

    after PGR2 and the high realism in it (please have a look at this forum, which compares real-life-photos with screenshots from the game: http://www.gamehit.net/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=19445)

    I BELIEBE THEM.

  • Grom #67 7 years ago

    Yes, I too think it is likely that Bizarre are spending their time creating assets which are far too detailed to put into the final game. It makes sound game development sense!

  • JHuxley #68 7 years ago

    "after PGR2 and the high realism in it (please have a look at this forum, which compares real-life-photos with screenshots from the game: http://www.gamehit.net/index.php?act=ST&f=18&t=19445)&qu ot;

    Uhh...whilst those are undoubtedly architecturally very accurate, they really look nothing at all like the photographs. It's all in the lighting & textures.

    "Yes, I too think it is likely that Bizarre are spending their time creating assets which are far too detailed to put into the final game. It makes sound game development sense!"

    Remember the Getaway?

  • #69 7 years ago

    can't see the reason for the hoopla. the screenshots look decidedly average to me. looks like fairly low level geometry with bog standard textures on top.

    sure, it's a good enough screenshot... for a dreamcast game.

    if this is going to be the standard on the next-gen machines then i think there's going to be alot of disappointed people around. if anything, i'm surprised the quality is this low.

    i was hoping on the next-gen machines we'd finally see actual high detail geometry rather than 2d textures trying to represent high detail geometry.

    meh.

    i'm not impressed and honestly can't see why people are. but in the age of any publicity is good publicity, where consumers are treated as morons, i suppose it's hardly surprising that stuff of such average quality is being passed off as revolutionary. controversy is created from no where to garner a few more column inches. ho hum. zzzz.
    Edited by 1 at 30/06/05 @ 17:41

  • vbdevpro #70 7 years ago

    Sony fanboys never cease to amaze me. First they claimed it wasn't real (some even claiming it was a digital photograph of a real word location) but now that Biz proved them wrong, they say it doesn’t look that good. Wow... just... wow. Pretty pathetic…

  • Yaz #71 7 years ago

    "i'm not impressed and honestly can't see why people are."

    Well you show me another racing game with better looking environmental details, especially the dreamcast game which you think it's only good for.

    PGR3 is a RACER, you will be flashing past these buildings at very high speeds, only seeing them for a fraction of a second! How much more detail do you want? You're not going to be interacting with these buildings, so why should polygons be wasted when textures could achieve just as good a result?

    The aim here is to have a convincing looking racing environment, and if they can maintain such detail over many miles of track ingame, then they have certainly succeeded.

    If you're not impressed, fine that's your opinion, but to call this average and only good if it was a dreamcast game is just ignorant.

  • texx #72 7 years ago

    threeoutsidedown you are going to be a hard customer to please.
    to avoid disappointment I suggest that you don't buy any consoles for at least the next 3 generations

  • debug_kit_2600 #73 7 years ago

    "...i was hoping on the next-gen machines we'd finally see actual high detail geometry rather than 2d textures trying to represent high detail geometry..."

    You might be in for a long wait! It’s not so much a question of how powerful the hardware is anymore but it is a question of time. 18~24 months development time for a game with about 6 months of that time spent in pre and post production. So you could have smaller but more detailed environments (with cinema quality visuals) or much larger areas with less detail but still stunning looks.

    Then there is the question of form and function. For a racing game the environments are all about immersion not interaction. That is if you can walk up to a building and enter it (Say Half Life 2) you now expect it to look almost on real. For a racing game the level of interaction is never that great, so you lower the detail level but create much larger “play areas”.

    I understand some people’s frustration but this generation of consoles has such a massive scope to deliver some spectacular results. Just give the developers time, not only is there new hardware to get to grips with but also the method of making games is going to change as it did from the PS1 to PS2

    “…sure, it's a good enough screenshot... for a Dreamcast game”

    :-)

    I’m not sure if that comment was meant to be serious but you are quite close to the truth there. Dreamcast had a “theoretical” maximum texture size of 1024*1024, problem being the small amount of ram to place all those textures and the small size of the removable media (1GB). All in all a very cool little console that died a very premature death.

    :-(

    Edited by 1 at 01/07/05 @ 00:06

  • Nikanoru #74 7 years ago

    You might be in for a long wait! It’s not so much a question of how powerful the hardware is anymore but it is a question of time.

    It wouldn't be if they'd spent as much time on making better development tools as they do on shiney hardware.

  • #75 7 years ago

    "Sony fanboys never cease to amaze me."

    who said i'm a fan boy? i don't have any allegiance to any console or manufacturer or development team. i'm interested in the quality of games, not in some schoolboy p*ssing contest about mine is better than yours. i'd feel just as underwhelmed with this no matter what next-gen platform it was gracing.

    "Well you show me another racing game with better looking environmental details, especially the dreamcast game which you think it's only good for. "

    let's get this straight, a good texture is easily worth a 1000 or more polygons. whether that texture is of a brick wall, a shop doorway or a piece of tarmac, it doesn't matter. plenty of dreamcast titles have had textures at or above this quality. the only excuse for artwork looking bad in the current and next-gen isn't down to console horsepower it's the quality of the artists on the job.

    for me the quality of the textures in the screenshots look adequate, no more, no less. for my money, they're definitely nothing to do a big song and dance about.

    maybe my expectations are higher than most but this stuff barely looks evolutionary, let alone revolutionary. sure there's a little more geometry than in previous and current gen titles. but so what? there's more horsepower to play with, i'd expect nothing less.

    it definitely wouldn't be a selling point for me just because the developer has taken the the time to put in the odd fire escape or drainpipe with additional geometry here and there.

    don't get me wrong, i'm sure we'll see some good playable stuff on the next-gen consoles. but at the moment i'm feeling very under whelmed considering how big the budgets much be for a decent sized title these days. why use all those code and art monkeys just to produce content which is just adequate rather than exceptional?

    of course, no company sets out to make a bad or average game but the next-gen stuff isn't making me that excited to be honest. my emotional response is more "so what?" rather than "wow!".

  • Yaz #76 7 years ago

    "of course, no company sets out to make a bad or average game but the next-gen stuff isn't making me that excited to be honest. my emotional response is more "so what?" rather than "wow!"."

    Well, my responce right now isn't quite "wow" either, not because I'm unimpressed, but because this is just the beginning. I don't expect to be blown away completely at first since it takes years for developers to really start to push a console. For a launch title however, PGR3 looks extremely promising imo, and very impressive so far, especially as devs have only now received their beta devkits. I don't expect the console to be pushed to the level we'll see in PGR4 and beyond.

    For the screenshots shown so far, I'm impressed that such detailed will be maintained throughout the whole track, but it's easy to focus on one or two screenshots and ignore what it represents. It's like some of the comments I've seen from those criticising the character models of games like Kameo and Ninety-nine Knights, ignoring the fact that the screen will be filled with hundreds, if not thousands, of such models and therefore we shouldn't expect the same level of detail as characters in a fighter for example, were only two models will be on screen at a time.

    So given that for PGR3 you also have very highly detailed car models and thousands of motion-captured 3D spectators lining the streets (a better use for those extra polygons rather than a more detailed door or window imo), I think it's going to be an incredible racer and a superb launch title.

    But then, I am a huge fan of PGR2 :).
    Edited by 2 at 01/07/05 @ 19:39

  • Lockjaw #77 7 years ago

    It's pretty decent, it apparently exceeds Gran Turismo 4 IMO but not by alot and of course GT4 is running on Sony's rather modest PS2.

    Hell go and check out some still screens of GT4 it looks amazing, it's not too shabby in motion either.

    But as the guy above stated, if that's the quality of a launch title then we're in for a real treat-

    But look at Halo on Xbox...still one of the Xbox's most technically sound games even though it's aging, I really don't feel any FPS I've ever played on Xbox exceeded it.

    Maybe Doom3.

    The point being, will it take 4th year (assuming it runs for that long) Xbox360 titles to exceed PGR3?

    Some games just don't date easily.