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MP criticises Rockstar's Bully News

PlayStation 2 Xbox News by Ellie Gibson

27 October, 2005

Following a record dry spell during which no Rockstar games were the subject of any controversy for approximately 18 minutes, Labour MP Keith Vaz has hauled Bully into the spotlight for its representation of violence against schoolchildren.

Speaking in parliament yesterday, Vaz asked Commons leader Geoff Hoon: " Do you share my concern at the decision of Rockstar to publish a new game called Bully in which players use their on-screen persona to kick and punch other schoolchildren?"

And he didn't stop there: "Will you ask the prime minister to refer this video to the British Board of Film Classification? If they don't make any changes will the government use its powers to ban this videogame?"

Hoon replied that Rockstar has yet to submit the BBFC for rating, adding that the exact contents of the game - "disturbing as they sound" - are "not yet known."

However, there is already a screenshot doing the rounds that depicts a shaven-headed, fingerless youth kicking a poor unfortunate up the backside - and it's likely that this is what has got Vaz riled.

It's also angered Liz Carnell, director of the charity Bullying Online. "Our view is that bullying is not a joke. It is not a suitable subject for computer games," she said, adding that an 18 rating wouldn't stop children from getting their hands on the game.

But ELSPA director general Roger Bennett reckons it's too soon to start talking about a ban: "Every game published in the UK carries an age rating on the box, providing guidance to ensure that consumers can make informed choices when buying games, in the same way as one would buy a film or take guidance on post-watershed TV viewing.

"As Mr Vaz knows, any game can be automatically referred to the BBFC for a rating. It is disingenuous to suggest any game be banned when the content has yet to be finalised."

Rockstar's response was as follows: " We support and admire the groups who are working hard to address the long-standing problem of bullying. We all have different opinions about art and entertainment, but everyone agrees that real-life school violence is a serious issue which lacks easy answers.

"Bully is still a work-in-progress, but when it's finished we believe most people will agree it offers an exciting experience and tells an engaging story.

"More and more people are beginning to recognise that the stories in video games have as many themes and plotlines as books and movies. Just as books aren't judged by their covers, videogames shouldn't be judged by their titles or individual scenes."

This isn't the first time Vaz has taken on Rockstar - last year he raised questions in the Commons after 14 year old Stefan Pakeerah was murdered by an older friend who was said to have been influenced by Manhunt.

At the time, Tony Blair said the issue of videogames classification was "worth looking closely" at the issue of videogames classification but that the UK had "Europe's strongest system for controlling the sale of computer games that are not suitable for children."

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Comments: 1-50 of 107 Next →

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rinoaMW
27/10/05 @ 16:25
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is this article broken? i can't get it to display....

first tho! :)
rinoaMW
27/10/05 @ 16:28
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ahh.. fixed now...

second! :P
Artemus
27/10/05 @ 16:30
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At the time, Tony Blair said the issue of videogames classification was "worth looking closely" at the issue of videogames classification but that the UK had "Europe's strongest system for controlling the sale of computer games that are not suitable for children."

That might be true but it still doesn't work!
Merefield
27/10/05 @ 16:31
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You know, i think they MIGHT have gone a step too far this time ...

... or is it just mi'old age??
Edited 1 times, most recently on 27/10/05 @ 17:27
Fatfish
27/10/05 @ 16:36
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I'm afraid I agree with this one - personally I don't think there's any need for this kind of game. It is a serious issue for many and it shouldn't be promoted in this manner - not even if you're awarded for being good. The use of this kind of imagery in a game is not necessary. I always thought one of the main concepts of video games was the suspenion of belief? And yes, I don't particularly like the 'historically correct' FPS (such as CoD or BiA) either. Just a little too close to a kind of realism I abhor. Doesn't matter what rating the reviews give it, I for one won't be buying it.........and no, I'm not Jack fucking Thompson!

@ Merefield - No, I totally agree with you. It's not old age (although I am starting to creak in my joints too!), I think it's morals and ethics. Don't see many of them these days, although when I was a boy........

/sucks on Werthers Original and gently sways back and forth in rocking chair/
Edited 1 times, most recently on 27/10/05 @ 17:34
AHiFi
27/10/05 @ 16:36
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Aye, it is a step too far.
Darren
27/10/05 @ 16:37
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I agree with Merefield.

Considering some kids commit suicide because they're bullied, can't Rockstar find some other controversial subject to make a game out of... or better still can't they make a game that ISN'T in some way controversial?
Fatfish
27/10/05 @ 16:40
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Bet we won't see anyone boycott Rockstar games by not buying any more of them though! They've always walked a fine line, and I think they've pushed the snotty nosed, spod with the anorak off it this time.
rinoaMW
27/10/05 @ 16:40
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hmm controversy for controversy's sake? Watch it Rockstar, this could have an adverse effect on all game development...
Derblington
27/10/05 @ 16:44
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If you *actually* bully kids physically then I agree it's not a clever idea for a game, however, R* seem to agree with that too so I'm interested to see what they're doing. At the mo nothing is known about the game so you guys are all acting a little premature, unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't?
prettyboytim
27/10/05 @ 16:45
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It's all very well saying that it's okay because it's got an 18 certificate, but you've got to wonder who it's aimed at in that case. I mean, if you're over 18 and you want to play a game where you get kids to hit each other, isn't that a bit weird?

Of course, it could all be smoke and mirrors by Rockstar. Perhaps it's some game where you have to bravely fight *against* the bullies... Somehow that doesn't seem so bad...
Senor_Sanchez
27/10/05 @ 16:48
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shut up and give us your mobile phone, your trainers and your dinner money!!!!!!
Ghetto-lapin
27/10/05 @ 16:49
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Damn.... So torture (in Punisher or True Crime) is ok, but kids fighting is not ? A bit off topic, but I haven't read any single comment judging those games, and I find that way more disturbing.

For all we know, this game is some kind of revenge story where bullies and abusive teachers get bullied back, and I think I read something along those lines somewhere.

I also remember Rockstar stating once that they never included kids or pets in the GTA games precisely because they didn't think it was fun at all. I think they deserve a bit more moral credit than they're usually given (ok, just a bit).
Teeth
27/10/05 @ 16:51
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Need to see what they're doing with the game first but after manhunt I'm not holding out any hopes of this being even remotely cerebral.

And if it remotely glorifies bullying I'd personally take a hard line with the game. Fitwers Meyide.
SlackMaster
27/10/05 @ 16:53
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It's like Manhunt and the like but possibly a step to close to reality than is needed. Just shock value to sell games, and it'll be amongst the 11-16 yr olds that this game will be the most popular. Every time I'm in a Game or a Gamestation there is some 30-40 aged woman buying some 18+ Rockstar title... Kinda guess it's not for them.
optimusprym8
27/10/05 @ 16:54
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BAN THIS SICK FILTH! EVEN THOUGH I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT! BAN IT ANYWAY!
paulf
27/10/05 @ 16:54
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Once again politician's getting on some moral panic bandwagon, I just hope the next screenshot doesn't show a teenager in a hoodie. While we are on the subject lets ban the classic seventies film If! and the novel 'Tom Brown's Schooldays' which both have graphic depictions of bullying while we are at it
skillian
27/10/05 @ 16:57
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Hah, all the bitching about JT and now you're all coming round to his side.

We have a game classification system here to help ensure games don't fall into the wrong hands.

Does anyone think that Todd Solondz' movie Happiness should have been banned because it mentioned pedophilia? Or Aronofsky's Requiem for a Dream because it dealt with issues of heroin?

In my mind, movies and games should be treated the same. They are artistic expression and we shouldn't be censoring them unless we really have to.
ecureuil
27/10/05 @ 16:57
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Bleh, the game is fine. I'll probably never play it, but the government is really f*cking everything up. We should be legalising more things, not banning them... the smoking ban is disgraceful, and I don't even smoke. I'll decide what I want to play, not the government.
w00t
27/10/05 @ 16:58
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Sooooo...

Bullying is not a subject for videogames, but murder's OK? Let's get some perspective, people!

In the words of a great man, WTF?

OK, here we go. If the game will be 18-rated, bollocks to worrying about kids getting hold of it. That is a problem for the parents and the retailers, not the developer. If bullying shouldn't be depicted in games, what about Hitman? Punisher (as mentioned above)? Any FPS ever?

Is bullying worse than murder? Fuck, no!

This stinks of political manouvering more than any actual concern for the kiddies little minds.
dsmx
27/10/05 @ 17:00
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Yet more igorance. Before you assume the worst about he game go read previews and actually play the game before saying that it should be banned. Why do people always assume the worst when they see pictures and hear titles.
w00t
27/10/05 @ 17:00
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I'm assuming congenital stupidity.
Lothar Hex
27/10/05 @ 17:04
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Last time I read about the game, you're actually fighting against OTHER school bullies. Not just being a bully yourself.

Thing is, nobody knows what the game is actually about, I don't think R* are THAT daft.
SlackMaster
27/10/05 @ 17:08
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But lets face it games about murder are more more in the realms of fantasy for kids than say bullying is... I don't mind a lot of stuff TBH but I think games about bullying are a bit too much considering the age of gamers that Rockstar titles tend appeal to... Yeah it may be an 18 title but the majority of gamers playing Rockstar games will be 11-18yrs.

Not remotely interested in this game personally... the only stuff I've enjoyed out of Rockstar is the Max Payne games.
meggsy
27/10/05 @ 17:19
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Maybe the industry should stop refering to "video games" and instead some other name, the connotations of the word game are negatively affecting how people recieve news of new titles such as Bully.

Films/novels/comics all shocked and dismayed contemporary audiences, but were all eventually accepted in some form or another.

The main problem at the moment is that these titles are made for the purpose of pushing the boundaries, rather than any artistic value...but while there is a market what's to stop them from making them?
Xerx3s
27/10/05 @ 17:22
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Quick! Quarantine him! Hes been exposed! We musnt let him infect other MP's with the jack thompson virus! They will all turn into self righteous twats that want to look important!


......
Edited 1 times, most recently on 27/10/05 @ 18:18
Lost_in_Darkness
27/10/05 @ 17:24
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this game would have stayed shit and out of the charts just like manhunt on release. If these retards just didn't bother interfering things would be okay. But no, they gotta bring it up all the time and then give the piece of shit game more publicity causing people to be interested and want to check it out. It sounds like it's gonna be a complete piece of crap, if they just ignored it, the game would have stayed out of the charts. But no, see what happened with that shit with manhunt, that piece of crap went for a month or 2 with horrible sales and then some twat started raving off about it and trying to get it banned and other shit...then it started selling.
anyway, sorry if this was completely nonsensical......but these people piss me off. if they just ignored it and didn't give it so much publicity the game would never sell well in the 1st place.
Ghetto-lapin
27/10/05 @ 17:26
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Ok, so from 3 screenshots and about 2 lines of info on the gameplay you know it's going to be crap ?
skillian
27/10/05 @ 17:29
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Calm down - no-one knows if the game's gonna be shit, all you've seen is a screenshot. The graphics look like shit, perhaps we can agree on that though :P

Lets just let the BBFC or ELSPA or whoever arte it when it comes out. If it's not suitable they will let Rockstar know - not some MP who knows nothing about video games and probably knows less about this game than I do (and that's not a lot).

LEAVE IT TO THE PROFESSIONALS!

Lost_in_Darkness
27/10/05 @ 17:39
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I did say i may be a bit nonsensical did i not?

but to be honest, since the only good team out of R* is Rockstar North, no; I don't think this is going to be anything other than a piece of shit, just like manhunt.
paulf
27/10/05 @ 17:55
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Next production by Rockstar - Bird Flu -The Game, apparently
Kiigan
27/10/05 @ 18:00
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Fatfish said:

I'm afraid I agree with this one - personally I don't think there's any need for this kind of game.

You're on form today Fatfish!

Whether you like the premise of the game or not is not relevant. Banning the game outright, and preventing the people who do want to play it and are mature enough to interpret the content appropriately from ever seeing it just to appease your own goddamn morals is clearly the path to stupidity.

The game could be shit, and sure bullying in schools is bad etc, but that doesn't mean it should be pulled from the goddamn shelves. Thankfully in the UK we have a pretty decent ratings system. End of motherfucking discussion.

The silliest aspect of all of this is that most of the people screaming "ban this sick filth" don't know squat about the game apart from the title. Y'know, because it hasn't been release yet.
Kiigan
27/10/05 @ 18:07
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Artemus said:

That might be true but it still doesn't work!

I actually disagree. I think the British videogame system for classifying videogames works perfectly well. However, there is little the industry can do to prevent lazy / ignorant parents from undermining the system entirely.

I'm sure we've all seen the scenario: Dad is buying the latest GTA gorefest for little Johnny, and when advised of the adult content in the game by diligent sales staff the response is invariably "oh, but it's only a game". I wonder, what kind of fucked up shit do we need to start putting in games before parents get off their arses and start taking an interest in how their kids spend their time?

There some areas that could be done better... simple leaflets explaining the ratings system clearly and unambigiously to parents could be included with each sale for example. And, people like Rockstar / Take Two should be "encouraged" to market their games in a more responsible manner - for example, no more GTA ads on MTV, or in magazines where the average reader age is 8-16 years old.

Tons of typos edit.
Edited 3 times, most recently on 27/10/05 @ 19:05
PearOfAnguish
27/10/05 @ 18:45
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Nobody has even seen this game yet, let alone played. We don't know what the content will be like. Seems as though this cretin has latched onto the Jack Thompson bandwagon and is using it to further his career. Try waiting until you actually play the game, eh?
Freek
27/10/05 @ 18:46
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People are just giving some knee jerk reaction to a few screenshots befre the game is even done yet.
In the previews released so far it discribes a game in wich the character enters a school for juvinile criminals. A school run by a corrupt teachers and the player has to fight gangs and the teachers in order to climb up the social ladder. It's got nothing to do with real life bullying.
Rockstar doesn't make realistic games, they always present their worlds in a stylised comedy, often a bitt on the dark side but so far removed from any reality that it's silly to get upset about.

They could easely clear all this up by pointing that out but rather going with the mysteriouse "just wait untill the game is done and you'll see", as if they're talking on some forum to generate hype amongst gamers.
Obviously it'll sell allot of copies but does nothing to clear up the situation or putt the hyperbolic nonsense surrounding Rockstar to rest.

And they woulden't have it any other way. Great developer but their marketing team are a bunch of fucking cunts who think damaging the industrie and putting gamers in a dark light is a good way to sell games.
Well, fuck them.
Edited 2 times, most recently on 27/10/05 @ 19:47
Sko
27/10/05 @ 20:41
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Beating up kids in school? Old news - Spectrum, in 1985 - Skool Daze.
Bates
27/10/05 @ 21:36
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No doubt if it had been an Xbox exclusive it would have been "The best game ever" in your opinion, eh Dilldong.

Meh, no point arguing taste with an Xboy, they think Halo is the best thing since sliced bread, rather than generic FPS no. 123235
Xerx3s
27/10/05 @ 21:53
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/agrees with kiigan

Bates, GTA1 was ace....on the PC. 4P dm was a real blast (not even mentioning the 'paralel worlds' thing that occured once in a while). Everything that followed was avarage and far from original. On top of that, the golden feeling from the original was gone. And it just got crappier and crappier after that. The sequels are some of the most overhyped titles in the history of games imo. It is an textbook example of sequelirites imo. Dont get me wrong, they arnt bad games. They just lack the golden feeling from the original and they are far to overhyped imo. Then again, id recon that thats just a matter of personal taste.
PedroStereo
27/10/05 @ 21:57
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sounds like they a cashing in on their reputation to me. but banning stuff is never the answer. do we really want to end up like the us/aus when it comes to video game censorship? and don't get me started on the propsed smoking ban. GGGRRRR it makes me angry.
and yes halo is overated
Edited 1 times, most recently on 27/10/05 @ 22:54
Zomoniac
27/10/05 @ 22:24
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We should be legalising more things, not banning them... the smoking ban is disgraceful, and I don't even smoke. I'll decide what I want to play, not the government.

Quite. I should also get to decide who I rob from, who I kill, where I walk around naked and I should be able to whack off in the middle of town in a Saturday afternoon if I see fit...
smelly
27/10/05 @ 23:07
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"... the smoking ban is disgraceful, and I don't even smoke"

Dont talk crap. Im all for people harming themselves if they wish. But smoking harms those around you. IMHO.. It's VERY selfish to smoke publically harming those around you, when they dont even get the benefits of said fag.

If you want to smoke, and enjoy it .. fine.. dont subject the rest of us to it.

I personally am addicted to alcohol, you dont see me leaving work for 15 mins every hour to have my beer fix. Nor do you see me wearing an alcohol patch. And even if i did.. i'm only hurting my oiwn health not others...

Public smoking ban = good thing.

Banning games which you CHOOSE to buy/play = nanny state = bad thing.
Fatfish
27/10/05 @ 23:34
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Kiigan - Exactly who the fuck do you think you are?

Quote:
"Whether you like the premise of the game or not is not relevant.".

....er, yes it is. It's very fucking relevant - that's what the post is about - the moral implications of this game. Read the title of the thread!

Quote:
"Banning the game outright, and preventing the people who do want to play it and are mature enough to interpret the content appropriately from ever seeing it just to appease your own goddamn morals is clearly the path to stupidity."

So let me get this straight, you want to have the option of playing a game because the content (at least on initial inspection) appears to be immoral and controvertial? How else do you interpret this game - it's called BULLY for fuck sake?!? Are you telling me that as a 'mature' gamer, you are able to somehow elevate this to something more than it appears? Perhaps it's an expression of one's inner angst and ensuing struggle against the system?!? Fuck off you twat. On the basis that our assumptions about this game and it's gameplay are correct, this is nothing more than a crass and pathetic attempt to appeal to sick and impressionable individuals - not to mention scraping the bottom of the gaming genre barrel. To me, this is far from an entertaining prospect in the gaming calendar.

And if everyone was apparently like you mate, then no-one would have any fucking morals at all - so explain to me how appeasing not just mine, but several individuals morals on this forum leads to stupidty? Our whole fucking society is based on them - and it's by (almost) everyone adhering to them that we manage to keep this frail structure held together. I'm not some church going, right wing, anti-abortionist do gooder, I just know where to draw the line (or at least where I think it should be drawn). That is my view (which every one of us is entitled to have), and that was what I was expressing in my post above.

And don't ever try to justify an argument to me again by saying "End of mutherfucking discussion" as if you are the final word and everyone should bow to your opinion. Exactly how long did it take you to formulate a summary like that? It's obviously another well thought out and quantified point to your argument. You need to wind your neck in sunshine and learn some manners. I hope to god you never procreate, we could do with less people like you in the world.

/edit typos/
Edited 2 times, most recently on 28/10/05 @ 00:42
Talha
28/10/05 @ 06:04
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@Fatfish: Totally with you on this issue and it is refreshing to see this kind of vibe in an EG forum. Honestly I think that is controversy the only way Rockstar can make money? I mean, can't they come up with ONE decent game without pushing ethical and social boundaries? They're fresh off the San Andreas fiasco but I guess they will never make a 'normal' game 'cos ... (whisper it)... it won't be good enough!

Come to think of it, does Ubisoft have to rely on shock tactics to sell their games? If no, which developer is better regarded? Make no mistake - I am not dissing GTA in any way - I am just dissing Rockstar who are trying to make millions by slapping a taboo on every below-average product they come up with, and allow people like Jack Thompson to rattle against gaming in general. Are they doing us any favours?
Edited 1 times, most recently on 28/10/05 @ 07:09
Moogrose
28/10/05 @ 06:52
#44
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I think everyone needs to chill the fuck out. or else i'll come over there and beat you!...

er... yeah.
deepmenace
28/10/05 @ 06:59
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i did think this should have been banned until i looked at the screenshots....

its not 'real' bullying at 'real' schools, its all about beating silverspoon toffs up at a school called Bullworths.

"Come hither Tomlinson-Smythe, i am going to box your ears you frightful cad"
JackThompsonsAnArse
28/10/05 @ 07:31
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So Keith Vaz is putting his head over the parapet again at last. Turns out the public have forgotten all about him (judging by this thread).

I wouldn't place too much worry in what he says, I doubt Tony is particularly keen to give him any public spotlight, as it'll highlight the fact he kept his job.
Talha
28/10/05 @ 07:37
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+1 !!!!
deepmenace
28/10/05 @ 08:01
#48
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hopefully its just going to be an updated School Daze....

that was a bully-sim, kick pupils, kick teachers, get other people blamed for stuff.

actually, that game was alright. now that the gfx are better is the concept wrong?
Psi
28/10/05 @ 08:34
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Rival Schools are a great game!! lol

Agree with Fatfish on this one, Rockstar need to get a grip and stop releasing games that add to social decline. How long till someone releases a fucking Chav game eh? Where you ram raid for tracksuits shiv ordinary people for their mobile phone and are against the clock till the post office shuts and you can't pick up your gyro?

When you're pissing off the people that supported you Rockstar you should know you've gone too far...
peterfll
28/10/05 @ 08:35
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Fatfish, Talha... whoa, can't really add too much to what's already been said by you guys, but I'm in total agreement.

I've never had any first hand experience of murder a la GTA but I was bullied like f8ck in school. Such is the nature of bullying, its something a lot of people can easily relate to so it’s not a case of it being better or worse than homicide. The thought of this game (should the content glorify bullying in ANY manner) in teenage chav hands makes my blood boil.

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