Halo Wars and exclusive deals blitz X06

By Matt Martin Published 27 September, 2006

GTA IV, PGR4, Peter Jackson, more.

Microsoft has unveiled a whole host of software for the Xbox 360 and Windows at X06, including exclusive deals on some of gaming's most lucrative franchises and new IP.

Leading the assault was Halo Wars, an all-new real-time strategy game based on the Halo franchise and designed exclusively for Xbox 360 by Ensemble Studios, creators of Age of Empires - which goes some way to explaining why Microsoft was so keen to shutdown the fan-made Halo RTS, we suppose.

Bizarre Creations' Project Gotham Racing 4 was unveiled with a teaser trailer, while it was revealed that the next iteration of Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto franchise will benefit from two exclusive 360 episodes available online within months of the October 2007 release.

Ubisoft's next Splinter Cell after Double Agent is also now exclusive to the Xbox 360 and Windows, as is Irrational's new IP Bioshock.

Peter Jackson, director of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, also took to the stage in Barcelona to reveal a collaboration with Microsoft to create content hoping to blend movies and games, and has formed an offshoot of his movie company called Wingnut Interactive to work on a new Halo series as well as another unnamed project.

Rare's Viva Piņata also got special attention at the event, as did Mistwalker and Artoon's RPG Blue Dragon, with the queues at last week's Tokyo Game Show hailed as evidence of the respect the developer commands.

On stage Peter Moore boasted of 160 hi-def games for the console by Christmas, all with the 1080p support, before blitzing the attended crowd with a show reel of upcoming and previously announced titles including the hotly anticipated Gears of War.

The design team from Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed gave the first live demo of the game, while it was revealed that Kane & Lynch by Io Interactive will debut on Xbox 360, as will Crossfire from Pivotal, also due for Windows Vista.

The price of the HD-DVD for 360 was revealed to be EUR 199 or GBP 129, and will be released mid-November bundled with a media remote and a copy of King Kong.

Over 50 HD-DVD movies are promised by the end of the year, with Moore calling the peripheral "the perfect compliment to your gaming experience".

Stating "we're not complacent" with regards to Xbox Live, Microsoft's regional vice president Chris Lewis trumpeted the service and revealed that 60 per cent of users are now connected to the online service, compared to just ten per cent on the original Xbox.

Between them, users have access to 1500 items amounting to 57 million downloads to date.

Xbox Live Arcade has reached ten million downloads to date, revealed Lewis, unveiling new titles - both original IP and retro games - including Sensible World of Soccer and id's classic FPS Doom.

Microsoft's cross-platform offering - Live Anywhere - will incorporate a simple interface, with Shadowrun helping to launch the service next year, and Marvel Universe Online from Cryptic Studios - a previously unannounced title - to follow at a later date.

Lewis claimed that the rollout of Xbox 360 units, which now accounts for 1.3 million in Europe and 5 million worldwide, is the fastest any company has managed, and reiterated that the company aims to ship 10 million by the end of this year.

Other countries due to receive the Xbox 360 before the end of 2006 include Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and South Africa.

Picture of Matt.

About Matt Martin

Matt Martin joined GamesIndustry in 2006 and was made editor of the site in 2008. With over ten years experience in journalism, he has written for multiple trade, consumer, contract and business-to-business publications in the games, retail and technology sectors.

Read more articles from Matt by visiting the Matt Martin archive page.

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Comments (136) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Plutarch #1 6 years ago

    "Ubisoft's Splinter Cell Double Agent is also now exclusive to the Xbox 360"

    Everywhere else is reporting that it's the SC after Double Agent aren't they? Conviction or whatever the leaked name was.

  • Fairlane #2 6 years ago

    That was kind of impressive :-) You could even say : Watch and learn dear Sony

    Regarding Splinter Cell : Guess the reporter has to speedy hands
    Edited by Fairlane at 27/09/06 @ 19:44

  • Sid-Nice #3 6 years ago

    No Halo Wars on the PS3? :(

  • Plutarch #4 6 years ago

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

    Or EG can run around the show floor looking for a UBI rep.

  • theweaze #5 6 years ago

    They have to bring Halo Wars to PC, and not 3 years later like Halo 2 otherwise i might be seduced into buying a 360>

  • Bojangle #6 6 years ago

    Thats how you do a conference. Take notes Ken! ;)

  • Metalfish #7 6 years ago

    Having seen the original RTS that halo was meant to be, I'd say I have faith in the game -but I'll still wait for more info, obviously.

  • Sid-Nice #8 6 years ago

    Halo Wars, Halo Golf, Halo Kart, Halo Superstar Striker, the possibilities are endless. :)

  • Canadian_Mike #9 6 years ago

    Halo, "Wars".


    Oh god, let the milking begin.


    ....waits for Halo racing......

  • Canadian_Mike #10 6 years ago

    Damn Sid, you beat me.


    ...and i didn't even think of golf!!

  • Qbert2k #11 6 years ago

    "with Moore calling the peripheral "the perfect compliment to your gaming experience"

    So if I'm reading that correctly that means we'll see hd-dvd games at some point?

  • Yossarian #12 6 years ago

    yeah, it's the next Splinter Cell which is exclusive, reportedly subtitled 'Conviction'

  • holloguts #13 6 years ago

    Well, they did a great job on the Doom control, feels right (far better than the version that came with Doom 3, and you can actually turn off that horrible music (the PS1 version was a better atmosphere, but at least the 5.1 makes up for it).

    Was interesting stuff, don't usually bother waiting and watching the live feeds, but decided to give it a go, enjoyed it and glad I stuck around for it. Cheers!

    Wouldn't mind seeing some of these playable demo's getting put onto the marketplace on 360.

  • Ihya #14 6 years ago

    I believe they gave Peter Moore a money cannon, with which to tour the triple A game developers studios.

    It was messy for about 30 minutes each time, but he got his own way in the end.
    Edited by Ihya at 27/09/06 @ 20:07

  • Xerx3s #15 6 years ago

    Halo Wars, Halo Golf, Halo Kart, Halo Superstar Striker, the possibilities are endless. :)

    Ninja golf was better. :\

  • Darren #16 6 years ago

    What? No mention of Banjo-Kazooie coming to the 360; surely the most important thing so far announced at X06?!? :?

  • spongebob #17 6 years ago

    Wow. The PS3 fans have landed with bad Halo jokes.

    Nice going MS, though. Many good acquisitions! I am not that interested in any of the Halo nonsense (even Peter Jackson can't get me interested in cheap scifi shooting) but there was a lot of good announcements.

    Now, just drop that Xbox 360 Premium price a bit and I'm yours, MS!

  • Bill_Gates_Bitch #18 6 years ago

    Awesome annoucements. The $ony fangirls will be weeping into their pillows tonight.

  • Chtulie #19 6 years ago

    "Leading the assault was Halo Wars, an all-new real-time strategy game based on the Halo franchise"


    Errrrr....Wasn't the original HALO set to be a PC rts until Microsoft bought up Bungie and suggested' some of their own ideas?
    I'm sure that in it's heyday of utter popularity, there was a video going around showing a short presentation where a few of the dev's would go through old builds of the game. Showing the strategy game it was that then developed into an action game through the iterations.

    So not so much a spinoff then as a going back to it's roots.

  • J_C_X #20 6 years ago

    MS seem to be giving Sony a lesson on confrences. I mean holy crap Lost Oddesy looks absolutly amazing! The quality of 360 games looks great thank god I bought a 360 its now over to Sony lets see you match that. Make me want a PS3.

  • dredd97 #21 6 years ago

    see the m$ fanboys have got the knobs out again....

  • Xephon70 #22 6 years ago

    Sorry if this comes across as cynical...but just like Chelsea, MS prove that if you can throw enough money at anything, it'll succeed in the end. I'd be careful with that word "exclusive" too, we all know how it's definition isn't what it used to be.

    I've been paying less and less attention to all of this hoopla, it's getting tiresome...I wish I could go into hibernation until a year from now. Or maybe I should just unplug the internet...:)

  • EmiliasHorse #23 6 years ago

    The days of Xbox mocking are over and MS have learned so much. X06 is all good, these guys are really delivering. Ģ129 plus King Kong sounds like a dream come true for my HD telly.

  • captainrentboy #24 6 years ago

    Well this Microsoft keynote presentation thingy was certainly more interesting than Sony's crazy Ken going on about how he'd rediscovered the internet and all that for what seemed to last 5 hours.
    All you've got to do is announce some interesting exclusives and show lots of pretty videos with banging music in the background.
    I did like Peter Moore's sly dig at Gran Turismo HD too ''Forza 2 will have 300 cars....And they'll all be there on the disc too'' or something along those lines. :)

  • Wash #25 6 years ago

    lol, gotta laugh at some folk deriding M$ now... thats some good news, good games... as gamers we have to be happy.

    all in all a good time to be 360 owner, no doubt Sony, Nintendo will be doing just as much as year into their console to.

  • alpha-0ne #26 6 years ago

    MS are definitely delivering... will sony ever catch up becuase it seems that for every announcement sony make MS make two or three more..

    Great press conference and sensible soccer on XBL woohoo :-)

    PS a flew of other xbox live arcade titles haev been announced aswell;

    Assault heroes - <a href="http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3611_en.html
    ">http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3611_en.html
    </a>
    Street race, Heavy weapons <a href="http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3609_en.html
    ">http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3609_en.html
    </a>

    hell just check out http://www.xboxyde.com/x06.html theres even more than was in the press conference..
    Edited by alpha-0ne at 27/09/06 @ 22:31

  • EmiliasHorse #27 6 years ago

    I forgot about SWOS.. I am so sold on that.

  • effinwooly #28 6 years ago

    brill !!! just where are the biiter sony fanboys now ?

  • t8yman #29 6 years ago

    quote Qbert2k
    "with Moore calling the peripheral "the perfect compliment to your gaming experience"

    So if I'm reading that correctly that means we'll see hd-dvd games at some point?

    no you are not reading that correctly, "the perfect complement" means "sits alongside nicely" like grapes go nicely with cheese and wine. I doubt we will even need more than 9gigs for a game anytime in the near future, I seriously dont understand why everyone is falling for sony's bullshit hype about bluray discs holding massive games, I'm not a dev, and nor do I understand anything about coding, but I reckon games as huge as say - Oblivion- fits on a DL DVD just fine, so how many racers, FPS's or sports sims are gonna need 50gb in the next 10 years?

  • moggsy #30 6 years ago

    Ģ129 for HD-DVD with a film thrown in. Excellent!

  • TripleSeven #31 6 years ago

    "brill !!! just where are the biiter sony fanboys now ?"

    Bored, I guess.

  • EmiliasHorse #32 6 years ago

    Just watched the Assassin's Creed demo... it is clear and present proof that the PS3 has no room to ever be smug. People if you want the 'Next Gen' it is available right now at your local store... If you want a PS3 for better games with better graphics you are fooling yourself. Add the Ģ129 HD add on and you have all you could ever need... Ok maybe a Wii will make your life totally complete. Bliss

  • Xerx3s #33 6 years ago

    see the m$ fanboys have got the knobs out again....

    Yeh, but that's just because it is soooo big right now that it doesn't fit into the pants. ;p

  • EmiliasHorse #34 6 years ago

    Very true, right now it is huge... And growing all the time.

  • fawe3 #35 6 years ago

    Can anyone explain to me why are they calling exclusive, games that will be also available on PC?

  • Penguinzoot #36 6 years ago

    Xerx3s - "Yeh, but that's just because it is soooo big right now that it doesn't fit into the pants. ;p"

    Did make me larf :-)

    Things definitely look bright for 360 owners at the moment. Not really a fan of jrpgs but would be nice to see Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon and Trusty Bell/Eternal Sonata doing well. Don't know if they'll make much difference to 360 sales in Japan - guess we shall see.

    Overall very impressed by this conference. Where is mike_mgoblue right now? I'm sure he would have something entertainingly smug to say right now :-)

    Edited by Penguinzoot at 28/09/06 @ 00:38

  • EmiliasHorse #37 6 years ago

    PC is not competition to the Xbox so therefore they exist in perfect harmony.
    Just out of interest 70% of all Prey sales were on Xbox, I would be interested to know the figure for Oblivion.

  • Xerx3s #38 6 years ago

    Who?

  • Penguinzoot #39 6 years ago

    @fawe3 - I think they are console exclusives (whatever exclusive means these days). I guess MS isn't really bothered about titles appearing on PC as well. Either because a) - MS sell you the OS they run under anyway, and b) - because MS do not consider games running on PCs to be in direct competition to their console business.

    Also, I think MS are on a bit of a mission at the moment to promote Windows as a gaming platform alongside their console business, especially with Vista, DX10 and Live.

    @Chtulie - I'm sure I remember seeing a video way before the original xbox came out where Bungie showed early PC-based Halo stuff where it was 3rd person. Can't remember at all if it was RTS or not. Or maybe this video was on the second Halo 2 disc ....

    Edited by Penguinzoot at 28/09/06 @ 00:34

  • MightyMouse #40 6 years ago

    Stop with the ridiculously 360 or PS3 biased comments already. Most people haven't got a next-gen console yet so would prefer to just see what will be better when they're ready to upgrade (I do belong to the group that thinks the 360 came out way too early, I admit).

  • EmiliasHorse #41 6 years ago

    Came out way too early? Not a chance, the PS2 has held back gaming for 2 years now. Xbox and PC games were just buffed up PS2 offerings. The PC is now running at monster speeds and MS wanted console users to have a bit of that. The 360 is in full swing now and just go look at the vids the time to buy is now.
    Edited by EmiliasHorse at 28/09/06 @ 00:43

  • tiddles #42 6 years ago

    WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY, PS3 FANS? I CAN'T HEEEAAARRRR YOU!!!

    /switches off 360

    ...aah, that's better, now where were we?

  • Fubdub #43 6 years ago

    Despite not caring about the games announced, I can't help but admire MS's sense for good PR. If I were at all interested in Splinter Cell and Halo I would be wetting my pants as well.
    I'm not going to buy an Xbox 360, but if I had been considering it, this conference would have pushed me very firmly closer to that point.

  • Feanor #44 6 years ago

    "with Moore calling the peripheral "the perfect compliment to your gaming experience"

    So if I'm reading that correctly that means we'll see hd-dvd games at some point?


    You're not reading that correctly. Get a dictionary and discover what compliment means.

    Bit surprised more hasn't been made of Bioshock being a 360 exclusive. That game has been getting nothing but glowing praise since E3.

  • Fubdub #45 6 years ago

    One thing I noticed was that they said they sold (or was it shipped) 1.3 million Xbox360s in Europe. Considering 5 million worldwide back in June (and Japan being a non issue) that's not all that impressive. Europe should technically be a bigger market than US considering it has more potential buyers?

  • t8yman #46 6 years ago

    @feanor

    you obviously didnt read my post

  • EmiliasHorse #47 6 years ago

    I think the figure is shipped 5 million in june, and this figure is sold units. But I might be wrong, I kind of thought the number might be higher.

  • ProtoformX #48 6 years ago

    God damn! 360 HD-DVD drive, Guitar Hero II, The Burning Crusade and Gears of War all in November. Plus the Neon Genesis Evangelion platinum DVD box set.
    I suppose it's understandable what with it being the run-up to Christmas. Not so hot that my family have said they'll never buy me anything to do with videogames ever. This'll all have to come out of my own pocket. Ouch.

  • Scimarad #49 6 years ago

    They only new thing in that lot that floats my boat is PGR4. If Halo Wars turns out to be a 'proper' strategy game rather than any of that RTS nonsense then I'll be interested.

    It's amazing that some of the idiots on here think MS hamfisted attempts to dominate the gaming industry by throwing huge bundles of cash around are to be congratulated. If MS DOES end up dominating the videogame market you are going to be so sorry a couple of years down the line...

    What the videogame industry needs is for the 360 AND the PS3 AND the Wii to be successful - That is the environment that will generate the best games.

    Get a f***ing clue, will you?

  • Rambaldi #50 6 years ago

    All good from MS, all conflicting and irritating from Sony.

    All is well :)

    "What the videogame industry needs is for the 360 AND the PS3 AND the Wii to be successful - That is the environment that will generate the best games."

    Really? MS don't seem to be doing bad to say that they had less than 10% market share last gen.
    Edited by Rambaldi at 28/09/06 @ 08:14

  • ice_freezer #51 6 years ago

    @Scimarad
    Totally agree.

  • neuroniky #52 6 years ago

    Sensible World of Soccer.

    If they update the database of players... well, Microsoft really OWNS soccer with it!!!!!!!

  • Xerx3s #53 6 years ago

    tiddles: ROFL! :D

    It's amazing that some of the idiots on here think MS hamfisted attempts to dominate the gaming industry by throwing huge bundles of cash around are to be congratulated. If MS DOES end up dominating the videogame market you are going to be so sorry a couple of years down the line...

    What, like sony's monopoly for the last decade due to extremely good PR?

    What the videogame industry needs is for the 360 AND the PS3 AND the Wii to be successful - That is the environment that will generate the best games.

    +1. More companies = more competition = lower prices, more innovation and more and better new franchises.

  • Wash #54 6 years ago

    lol, teh comments from such sony zealots about competition = good, M$ equal bad. This last few weeks must of really shaken 'em.

    Cos as far as i could see the last two generations of consoles Sony has had a good stranglehold on the market.

    Now following this Sony have to do one better, so thats a good thing isnt it?


  • masterson #55 6 years ago

    "Oblivion- fits on a DL DVD just fine, so how many racers, FPS's or sports sims are gonna need 50gb in the next 10 years?"

    I think we'll be seeing the next, next, next gen by then. :D
    10 years ago we had CD-ROM, we often now use a media with around 13 times it's capacity. Going by that it's pretty much a given that by 2016 DVD9 will seem cramped. That said, should do alright for another 5 years or so you'd think...

  • Wash #56 6 years ago

    @masteron...

    surely by then we'll have more resources in technogloy, and power to attribute to compression aswell.

    50gigs of game assets is one of 3 things
    A:Bloody Expensive considering the time and money create such assets
    B:Really lazy on the developers part (mostly likely use)
    C:A JRPG with hideous amounts of HD CG movies. (another very likely use)
    or D: An uber collection of games.
    Alternatively... E: Very good for pirates of software.

  • masterson #57 6 years ago

    Fair enough - we'll continue this thread in another 10 years and see who's right. :D

  • YogiTah #58 6 years ago

    The big boys with the big money won again, i have to admit... i hope the xbox 360 is better than what they did with windows. Boy if i wouldn't hate M$ so much ;-(((

  • Wash #59 6 years ago

    I actually dont see how this is any different to sonys tactics, i mean they've yet to announce any exclusivity to games with the popularity of GTA or FF.

    bitter fanboys seem to forget real quickly whos had the iron fist for the last 10yrs. Sounds as if some are portraying Sony as an underdog. :S thats a quick turnaround.

  • Darkedge #60 6 years ago

    Sony won the market in some ways by throwing cash around the first time, they bought into or bought up so much (hence why most PS3 titles that are exclusives are sony owned).
    I also have to mention the number of games cancelled for PS3 as the devs are jumping on the cheap and avaliable bandwaggon.

    Do i need to mention the problems with online play on the PS3 too? nahh thats just rubbing salt in..

  • drumbaby #61 6 years ago

    Maybe Rockstar are being a bit canny with how they define 'exclusive'? The extra content for GTA is exclusive for Xbox 360 via download (no downloads for PS3 allowed, sorry) but will already be on the larger capacity Blu Ray games disc for the PS3, straight out of the box...

    ;)

  • Khanivor #62 6 years ago

    No, no, no. Sony triumphed with the PS1 because of the harmonic energies they created from saving all those dolphins and baby seals. Developers were so proud to be associated with the nature-loving newcomer they waived any fees or even earnings to develop titles exclusively for the untested and totaly inexperienced upstart on the gaming scene. Magazines, TV stations and other media actualy paid money to Sony's global intiative to reduce hunger and poverty through the resonating power of karmic love.

    If you want real competition then there would be a single machine spec built by dozens of manufacturers. Think of the fanboi fun then! Not just three camps, but 30!

  • Baz_Dude #63 6 years ago

    /every sony fanboy sheds a tear...

  • holloguts #64 6 years ago

    The best thing that ever happened to console gaming was Microsoft. Sony had no real competition and could dominate the market as they wished. Considering the low specs and massive sales of the PS2 there would be no need for Sony to even consider the PS3 for another 3 to 5 years. Microsoft has hurt Sony, even though they are still bullish with the PS3, they know that it's not going to be so easy in the future. Microsoft have the financial backup to force through the success of the 360 and any future console they create.

    We do need Sony and Nintendoto continue, and we need all the consoles to be successful otherwise the market will be strangled for years again. It's nice to see that Microsoft 'broke Sony's fingers and got it to release its grip slightly.

    Now, Ģ129 for a HD DVD, got to say, never wanted one, but now...

  • myiagros #65 6 years ago

    I am afraid to say, but i think the PS3 may end up being sony's "Dreamcast". It will be a great machine and have some amazing titles, but in the long run Microsoft just have too much financial clout for sony to compete with.

    Microsoft are the Chelsea of the games industry, if they see something they want in order to win, they will buy it no matter what its cost.

    These "exclusives" are testement to that, i think that the publishers and developers themselves would be happy to release most of these titles multi-format, but they are not going to turn down what Microsoft are offering, especialy in a day an age of the sort of development cost there are now.

  • groovychainsaw #66 6 years ago

    All i can see is the exclusives on the 360 are games that I want to play, no exclusive on the PS3 so far is a system seller to me yet. So pleased i will be able to play alan wake+bioshock on my 360, totally justifies me spending my graphics card upgrade money on a 360....

  • YogiTah #67 6 years ago

    What ever happened to the "old" Xbox - it looks like they don't give a *+'§ anymore about it.

  • kangarootoo #68 6 years ago

    @Chtulie

    Halo was indeed conceived as an RTS, but it was turned into an FPS waaay before MS came along.

    It was originally going to be a MacOS only FPS (Bungie had been a MacOS only company till that point, ports of Marathon not withstanding) and Apple were well pleased about it. Steve Jobs showed Halo footage during an Apple Expo keynote.

    Not that long after MS bought the company. Steve was no doubt fuming.

  • Pooley #69 6 years ago

    The Bioshock exclusive was a bit disappointing for me. There aren't that many games that I want to play on the 360, but if Bioshock is only coming out for the 360 then I'll probably get one. I'll just wait until a better 360 bundle comes along, as I'm not interested by the current bundle with PGR3.

    If it comes out on PC, then I'll get it for that. I was planning to upgrade the PC in time for Crysis, now Bioshock could be added to that list.

    There are still titles that I want on PS3, VF5 being the main one, but now it looks like we'll need 3 consoles to play the games we want. Boohoo. Time to start saving...

    My Christmas is covered by the Wii and Zelda anyway, so I'll let the Sony/MSoft consoles sort themselves out until next year.

  • morriss #70 6 years ago

    "Maybe Rockstar are being a bit canny with how they define 'exclusive'? The extra content for GTA is exclusive for Xbox 360 via download (no downloads for PS3 allowed, sorry) but will already be on the larger capacity Blu Ray games disc for the PS3, straight out of the box...

    ;)"

    Moore said the 360 will be the only place you can play these new chapters. Doesn't mean there won't be PS3 exclusive chapter though, does it?

  • Les #71 6 years ago

    "The best thing that ever happened to console gaming was Microsoft. Sony had no real competition and could dominate the market as they wished."

    I would say it's the worst thing that ever happened to console gaming. MS will destroy it, it's just a matter of time.

    I'm not saying Sony's strong grip on the console market was a good thing, I'm very much in favour of healthy competition as it forces the players to give their all and keep prices down. And of course in the short term we’re reaping the benefits of MS’s entry. But in the long run, with MS we'll see even less competition. However mighty Sony was, it would never have been able to achieve a real monopoly and like it’s financial results show, it has never been able to create ridiculously high profits because there was competition. What MS is doing is leveraging it’s PC OS monopoly and the excess profits they make in that area, to create the next monopoly: that of the OS for the console.

    I’d rather have MS 'owning' PC and Sony consoles, than MS owning both, but that’s where we’re heading. Ultimately the console will converge into a PC: various hardware manufacturers and configurations unified by a MS OS. While a single platform certainly has its benefits, I don’t think these will exceed the downside of extending the MS monopoly even further. It might look nice that MS is able to hand out huge amounts of cash to developers to get exclusivity deals, but we’re the ones that gave it to them by paying the 85% profit margin on Windows.

    So while in the short term we can celebrate and benefit from the reduction of Sony’s power, we’re actually getting something far worse in exchange for it.

  • Garulon #72 6 years ago

    "but we’re the ones that gave it to them by paying the 85% profit margin on Windows."

    When's the last time YOU paid for Windows, ie walked to a store and came back with a box that said "Windows" on it?

  • Les #73 6 years ago

    "When's the last time YOU paid for Windows, ie walked to a store and came back with a box that said "Windows" on it?"

    I understand you know little about economics, so let me explain it to you. I’ve never bought a cardboard box with Windows on it. I have bought PCs with Windows preinstalled, which is the same thing (and on the PC case there’s a nice little Windows sticker, so I did buy a box with Windows on it, but that’s not what you meant probably). I might not pay MS directly, but the PC maker does and charges what he pays right back to us, the consumers. So we are the ones that pay the 85% profit margin. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

    About 95% of total Windows sales (percentage of some years back but I don’t expect this to have changed significantly) are sales of the preinstalled Windows versions and they reap the 85% profit margin.

  • subtlesnake #74 6 years ago

    I really don't think Microsoft are throwing huge amounts of cash around. After the ridiculous losses on the Xbox, they've been conservative in their spending. They debated the inclusion of the hard drive (a big factor in the $4 Billion loss), and were reluctant to include more than 256 MB of system memory - only being persuaded by developers like Epic. When they did finally decide to spend the extra money, they had to cut back elsewhere to compensate (on the software development side).

    Dean Takahashi, author of the "Xbox 360 Uncloaked" book, actually thinks Microsoft are being too conservative.

    The 'exclusives' are partly down to the fact that the 360 has a larger install base than the PS3 (for obvious reasons) and that will continue for some time, so developers are prepared to shift their focus towards the 360. But Microsoft's success here is largely a result of Sony's mistakes – they aren't dominating anyone, they're just being very competent in light of a Sony 'no show' and are consequently picking up ground.

    When the PS3 hits, things will be very different, and I think the Playstation brand alone is enough to stop a Microsoft monopoly.

  • Lacero #75 6 years ago

    Yes, the ones you buy inside a cardboard box from a shop have a much higher profit margin :/

  • Les #76 6 years ago

    "Yes, the ones you buy inside a cardboard box from a shop have a much higher profit margin :/"

    Actually, they don't. Expenses are way higher for MS (packaging, distribution, etc.). Or is that what you're referring to?

  • Foxclose #77 6 years ago

    There's no doubt that MS prints lots of cash from its Window licensing and next the Office licensing.

    I bet even Sony (along with every business) offices even pay for the above.

  • rhinoxious #78 6 years ago

    "I would say it's the worst thing that ever happened to console gaming. MS will destroy it, it's just a matter of time. "

    A big part of the problem with Sony continuing its dominance of consoles has little to do with games, and is the same reason that MS want in so badly.

    It'll be the sales of all kinds of media downloads (films, TV, music, arcade, episodic games etc.) that will end up being the real prize here, and all wihtout having to give a cut to those pesky retailers.

    In this situation at least MS seem to be more of a facilitator of sales, at least they don't own the kind of massive media catalogues that Sony does.

  • morriss #79 6 years ago

    Les, I don't see how you can think Sony's current monopoly will be any different to the 'possibility' of an MS monopoly. I don't even the MS will gain the upperhand, at all. Give it a year and we'll see. Sony will continue to dominate the market and saythings like, "It doesn't matter if things we sell are expensive. People will buy it because it's Sony." Can a MS monopoly be worse than arrogant, corporate statements like that? And don't get me started on their stealing every good idea from Nintendo and reaping the rewards for it.

    I think MS's entry into the console market is just what the industry has needed for a long time. Healthy competition benefits everyone. There will be no 'winner' as far as I can see.

    Don't let your dislike for one company cloud your opinion.
    Edited by morriss at 28/09/06 @ 12:55

  • rhinoxious #80 6 years ago

    "When the PS3 hits, things will be very different, and I think the Playstation brand alone is enough to stop a Microsoft monopoly."

    PS is a strong brand, but consumers are fickle, maybe the serious gamers are ready for a change, especially in the US where they now have a viable homegrown alternative to the japanese PS3.

    The mass market is over a year away from even starting to care.

  • Les #81 6 years ago

    “I really don't think Microsoft are throwing huge amounts of cash around. After the ridiculous losses on the Xbox, they've been conservative in their spending.”

    There are few other companies that could have entered a business with such huge losses as Microsoft had and not go bust. Windows profits financed this. I fully agree that they are more conservative this time around, because of shareholder pressure. Shareholders don’t like money being thrown around. But while it’s vital for Nintendo and Sony to actually make money with their consoles, for MS this is less of an issue. They know they will win eventually and will fight a war of attrition. I don’t expect they’ll surpass Sony in the next-gen round already, but unless the video game market expands significantly, if they keep close, it’s enough to ruin Sony’s profitability

  • Les #82 6 years ago

    "Can a MS monopoly be worse than arrogant, corporate statements like that?"

    Yeah, if it'll cost me more money. Which it will.

    "Don't let your dislike for one company cloud your opinion."

    I don't dislike MS. I dislike monopolies as it annihilates choice (something xbox supporters seem to value very much these days) and drives up prices. I don’t blame MS for doing what they do, if I was in their position, I’d do exactly the same.

    Edited by Les at 28/09/06 @ 13:27

  • Cosmopolitan #83 6 years ago

    "Other countries due to receive the Xbox 360 before the end of 2006 include Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia..."

    Yay!

    /is unsure if it's bad or good news

  • andyk #84 6 years ago

    So Peter Jackson working on a halo title. Does that mean he will likely fill the director's shoes for the movie too?

    Me wonders with anticipation....

  • Freek #85 6 years ago

    No, he won't since he already apointed a director for Halo. Neill Blomkamp.

  • andyk #86 6 years ago

    cheers Freek. didn't know that - I should have checked imdb first before making a tit of myself.

    /remembers to engage brain first next time.

  • cooper #87 6 years ago

    I don't see this "risk" of an MS monopoly (yet). The 360 isn't selling that well yet - don't remember where I read it's even been selling slower than the original Xbox (maybe someone here could confirm?).
    Plus, these "exclusives" can only really excite fanboys. And Peter Jackson making games? Too funny.

    I'm not complaining, Dead Rising justified my 360 purchase already (just like Orta and Ninja Gaiden did with my good old box), but IMO this first year has been pretty poor for the 360, and they're only a handful of games I'm looking forward to on it.
    And no, I couldn't care less about most-overrated-game-ever-Halo.

  • Lacero #88 6 years ago

    Les,

    I'm talking about the vast difference in prices not the large difference in costs.
    [link url=http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=118
    ]http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=118
    [/link]

    I can't believe it costs $150 to print and distribute them.

  • Les #89 6 years ago

    "I don't see this "risk" of an MS monopoly (yet). The 360 isn't selling that well yet - don't remember where I read it's even been selling slower than the original Xbox (maybe someone here could confirm?)."

    Like I said, I don’t see 360 overtaking PS3 just yet. I don’t know whether is sells faster or slower than the original Xbox, at least mr. Moore claims it’s the fastest selling console ever. I treat any statements made by business representatives with healthy skepticism, but if it would be nowhere close, someone would probably point that out (although maybe MS statements are looked at with a little less scrutiny than at Sony statements, I don’t know). But PlayStation is so important to Sony’s business, they can’t afford mistakes while MS can. That’s why I think ultimately they’ll win.

  • LarryLoxley #90 6 years ago

    Impressed. I'm easily dazzled!

  • effinwooly #91 6 years ago

    wow

  • steoc4 #92 6 years ago

    Just a thought - would a monopoly(regardless of which manufacturer) be such a bad thing for gamers?

    Nobody seems to think healthy competition is good in terms of movie format, we're much happier with a DVD monopoly than with HDDVD and BluRay competing.

    Wouldn't it be nice to go and buy one console and then be able to play Mario, Gran Turismo and Halo on it?

    The games is where we need competition more than the hardware surely.

  • old_skool #93 6 years ago

    @steoc4
    Competition is good . It boosts creativity , quality increases in software , it lowers prices for consumers , it leverages some power to developers against hardware manufacturers .

  • smelly #94 6 years ago

    Plus.

    If we didnt have competition i'd be force to give my money to microsoft rather than nintendo.

    That'd suck.. Given too much of my money to msoft over the years.. And the thought of all those endless fps games feels me full of depression.

  • effinwooly #95 6 years ago

    poor smelly

  • Vin #96 6 years ago

    "The 360 isn't selling that well yet - don't remember where I read it's even been selling slower than the original Xbox (maybe someone here could confirm?)."

    They won't.

    'Cause its a load of BOLLOCKS.

  • Lex_Luthor #97 6 years ago

    It's not you know.

  • El_MUERkO #98 6 years ago

    Did i miss something or should that be 1080i

  • Vin #99 6 years ago

    Go on then son, gizzus a link.

  • Penguinzoot #100 6 years ago

    No, native 1080p support for games, not upscaled 720p. Of course it is up to devs to use it.

  • Edward_Gamer #101 6 years ago

    Xbox 360 completely dominated all of the major shows this year!

    First, Microsoft completely dominated the 2006 E3 show.

    Then, Microsoft dominated the Game Convention.

    Then, Microsoft did better than anyone else at the Tokyo Game Show. Microsoft ended up with 7 games in the Top 20 Tokyo Games list from Next-Generation. The Xbox 360 had more games in the Top 20 than any other system. Three of the Top 4 games shown at the Tokyo Game Show were Xbox 360 games!

    The truly awesome thing is that Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey are SO AWESOME that Next-Generation said that neither game deserved to be ranked #2, so, Next Generation allowed BOTH Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey to be co-ranked #1 Game of the Tokyo Game Show!!!

    Now, at the X06 show, we continue to see Xbox 360's absolute dominance of the videogame industry this generation.
    Edited by Edward_Gamer at 29/09/06 @ 00:02

  • Edward_Gamer #102 6 years ago

    By the way, the fall update to the Xbox 360 does allow the Xbox 360 to display true 1080p high-resolution. If a developer chooses to create a game that is displayed in true 1080p, the game can use that resolution. Also, all of the current 720p and 1080i Xbox 360 games will be upconverted to 1080p in a customized way if the games are played on a 1080p HDTV. And yes, Component cables will allow games to be displayed in true 1080p resolution. You can read about that here: pro-g.co.uk/news/21-09-2006-3668.html

    Plus, the Xbox 360 will now upconvert standard DVD's to 720p/1080i/1080p, as well. I have read that this is something the Playstation 3 will not be able to do. Here is a hyperlink that explains all this in great detail: pro-g.co.uk/news/21-09-2006-3668.html

    One other thing. The Xbox 360 has been the fastest selling system ever since it was released. The only place the Xbox 360 has not been the fastest selling system ever is Japan. This is amazing, because the Xbox 360 was priced $100 more expensive than the Xbox or the PS2 or PS1.

    Microsoft has achieved all of their Xbox 360 sales goals; they announced that at this years E3. Microsoft announced at this years E3 that they set the goal of selling 10,000,000 Xbox 360's by the end of the year. At the X06 show, Microsoft just announced that they are on track to reach that goal. And Microsoft has also announced that their goal is to sell 15 million systems by June of 2007. This is very common knowledge. You can read about it here: digitalworldtokyo.com/2006/07/microsoft_forecast_xbox_360_to.php

    You can also read about how original sales forecasts for the Playstation 3 have been cut in half here: next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3689&Itemid=2
    Edited by Edward_Gamer at 29/09/06 @ 00:08

  • Lex_Luthor #103 6 years ago

    What does any of that bollocks have to do with the article?

    "One other thing. The Xbox 360 has been the fastest selling system ever since it was released."

    LOL!
    Edited by Lex_Luthor at 29/09/06 @ 00:05

  • thinktank #104 6 years ago

    Poor lex,

    reduced to trolling on a 360 article while he indures the long wait for PS3.

  • Edward_Gamer #105 6 years ago

    Lex Luthor,

    Take a look at the sales figures that Microsoft has shown from the E3, Game Convention and X06 shows, and you will see for yourself that the Xbox 360 is the fastest selling system ever. At the X06 show, Microsoft shows sales figures from industry analysts and worldwide retail stores that makes this clear. No other system, including the Playstation 2, has sold as many systems worldwide over its first nine months on the market.

    Lex Luthor, obviously you are a "fanboy" for Sony. But the bottom line is that you need to accept the facts about the Xbox 360 sales figures. That sort of information cannot be argued with.

    Lex Luthor, you are standing there Laughing-Out-Loud (LOL), and you may be looking at the upper half of your body in the mirror, thinking that you look good doing so. But, you need to move you eyes to the lower half of your body, because you just got caught with your pants down!

    Lex Luthor, before you Laugh-Out-Loud (LOL), make sure you know what you are talking about, first!

    Now, go do some studying, learn the true sales figures, try not to be a "fanboy," and most importantly, pull up your pants!

    ...and don't be afraid to call a truce with Superman for a while, because you are going to need his help to pull up your pants, since you have filled them with a lot of crap, thanks to all the crap-talking you do!
    Edited by Edward_Gamer at 29/09/06 @ 00:24

  • SexyBodyBuilderDude #106 6 years ago

    Hey lavalant,

    I have some spare time on my hands, and I believe I can answer your question. I used to be a Sony "fanboy," but I shed my skin, because it died at this year's E3 when people like me realized that the Playstation 3 was the equivalent of a half-inch penis! ... It shoots a lotta piss, but nothin good ever cums!

    There is no frikkin reason why anybody would want to play with a toy like the PS3! Not even a horny bi*ch could have fun with it, because the controller doesn't even vibrate!

    Even a sexy surfer like me who sometimes needs his fingers and toes to count on would run out of fingers and toes to count on if I were to count the number of exclusive AAA games the Xbox 360 has at the stores RIGHT NOW that will never be released on the Playstation 3.

    Two years ago, when Sony showed all that fake CG garbage, people thought they were gonna like the PS3. It disappoints me to say this, but I was one of those lame losers.

    Now that Sony has shown what the Playstation 3 really is, nobody likes it. A buddy of mine in a band wrote a song about all of the lies associated with the Playstation 3. People on the beach were going to frikkin die laughing! You should hear how long that song is, too...I had no clue Sony had made such a huge number of mistakes, but I was amazed that everyone else on the beach was well aware of all of that Sony crap.

    If you got the cash to buy all of the game systems, that is your business. But if you only need one, you would need to be brain-dead to even consider the Playstation 3. The Xbox 360 has games now...right now! And the Xbox 360 games are awesome! The Xbox 360 is bodacious! Dude, Xbox 360 is cool now, and it will only get cooler in the future. Stick with the Xbox 360!
    Edited by SexyBodyBuilderDude at 29/09/06 @ 01:53

  • cooper #107 6 years ago

    Xbox-Scene link

    There you go, I posted an Xbox-Scene link, so fanboys can feel right at home. It's a Sony guy quoting NPD figures, but it's interesting anyway.
    US figures quote: "Looking at retail sales for the respective consoles' first nine months shows the Xbox at 2.55 million units and the Xbox 360 at 2.21 million units."

    Anyway, this is boring stuff. Let's discuss games ;-)

  • Les #108 6 years ago

    Hey, mike_mgblue (now known as Edward_Gamer) is back again! Bit silly to have changed your ID though. The stupidity of your posts easily reveals the truth. The fact that you used a new ID to support your own posts is engraved in my memory as one of the most hilarious moments in EG-comments section history! :D

    Although from a personal perspective it's in fact quite tragic... :'(

  • cooper #109 6 years ago

    @Edward_Gamer/mike_mgblue
    I hope you're a well paid MS employee. It would be really sad if you really believed all the crap you've been posting here...

  • Xerx3s #110 6 years ago

    Yay, yet another item killed off by fan boys trying to put their penis in everybody's mouth. :\

  • Les #111 6 years ago

    "so i guess that means no more Sony fanboys on this site"

    In general there are relatively few Sony fanboys I guess. The mass audience that bought PSone and PS2 (and maybe eventually PS3, after the inevitable price drop) is not made up of the kind of person that starts flame wars, etc. Like you see in most other aspects of social life, 'minority' groups like fans often make the most noise while the masses are quite complacent.

    But why would you want to have an answer to that question from a Sony 'fanboy'? You're hardly going to get objective advice. Your question is probably just a provocation, but if I'm mistaken, I humbly apologise. If you can surf the internet, register to EG and post in the comments section, I guess you should be more than capable to gather enough information to make your decision. But if you really can't, here's some questions to help you:

    - Which games do you really wanna play?
    - Do you want next-gen gaming now?
    - Do you value online gaming?
    - Do you think a large storage medium can be beneficial to games?
    - Do you have a wireless network at home?
    - Is price an important factor to you?
    - Do you want rumble in your controller?
    - Do you think a motion sensing controller will enhance gameplay posibilities?
    - Do you have an HDTV?
    - Do you watch many movies and would you like to watch those in HD?
    - Do you have many games that you would like to be able to play on your new console?

    If you answer these questions for yourself, you'll probably get a good picture of what you want and which console best suits your needs. The most important question is of course the first one, but whichever console you're gonna get, there's eventuall gonna be more good games available for it than you'll have time to play.
    Edited by Les at 29/09/06 @ 08:49

  • jiveguy #112 6 years ago

    Seriously though, who actually gives a shit about what lump of plastic bits you play your games on?

  • miiiguel #113 6 years ago

    jiveguy: right on man!
    Les: Althought the all righteous speech of yours, you should admit that there are lots of Sony worshipers arround, it's a damn fact. As you probably know Sony (and Japanese companies) invented the brand rooting system (just look at their football teams names, they support brands, not cities or regions), and they exported this systema quite successfully in the western, particulary in Europe.

  • Les #114 6 years ago

    “Les: Althought the all righteous speech of yours, you should admit that there are lots of Sony worshipers arround, it's a damn fact. As you probably know Sony (and Japanese companies) invented the brand rooting system (just look at their football teams names, they support brands, not cities or regions), and they exported this systema quite successfully in the western, particulary in Europe.”

    Well, personally I don’t know of any Sony worshippers to be honest. Of course there’s always people supporting a certain brand no matter what and of course there will be people that really dig Sony. But these kind of feelings often get most articulate in ‘minority’ groups that for one reason or the other feel threatened by the majority group. There’s less need to form intense feelings about the competition when your brand is the clear ‘winner’. To translate this to the video game world: Why hate Dreamcast, Xbox or Gamecube when the brand you support, PS2, is outselling them by a factor of almost 5 (approximately 70% PS2 vs. 15% for Xbox and GC each)? ‘Winners’ don’t care about ‘losers’, while ‘losers’ care very much about their team and hate the ‘winner’. It’s a bit like comparing a supporter from Man United (or Chelsea nowadays) vs. one of Grimsby town, Barcelona vs. Espanyol, Juventus vs. Torino, etc. That’s also why you’ll see more people explicitly hating windows than loving it and for Mac OSX it’s exactly the other way around.

    Why clubs in Japan are named after brands is because the clubs were formed by those brands. Social structure in Japan is totally different from what it is here. In Japan the company is a very important part of social life. The company is your family and often people spend their entire career with that company and wouldn’t think of moving to a competitor. Japanese companies formed teams from their employees and these eventually evolved into pro teams. I don’t really see how they exported this system to Europe. In general we don’t support brands here but clubs.

  • miiiguel #115 6 years ago

    Les: you compared the supporting from football teams to the brand supporting, so there are nowdays an imported brand supporting that you didn't see a decade ago. And this non-sense started preciselly with the feeling of the 360's "threat".

    And please do not try to sell that Japan's companies are altruist and they made the teams just to please their employees, you know better than that.

    Let me just add, that I couldn't care less in what box I play my games, I just bought a 360 because it came first, I was tired too of playing in such dated systems as PS2 and XB, but it came out to be a damn good machine. If PS3 had come 1st I would be a PS3 owner. I also believe that if it wasn't for 360 lauch timming Sony-only kinda gamers would not see a PS3 in the near future.
    Edited by miiiguel at 29/09/06 @ 13:06

  • Les #116 6 years ago

    "Les: you compared the supporting from football teams to the brand supporting, so there are nowdays an imported brand supporting that you didn't see a decade ago. And this non-sense started preciselly with the feeling of the 360's "threat".

    And please do not try to sell that Japan's companies are altruist and they made the teams just to please their employees, you know better than that."

    Like I said, brand supporting is stupid but there’s always stupid people. It’s something invented by Western marketeers and not by the Japanese. I can imagine that you would form a preference for a certain brand (brand loyalty) because its products have always been satisfactory but that preference disappears as soon as the brand fails to meet your expectations. Caring about Apple, Sony, Microsoft, Coca Cola, McDonalds, etc. makes no sense. But I can assure you that the likes of the Coca Cola vs. Pepsi debates were there well over a decade ago: is not something recent. You started about there certainly being Sony fans. I said you were right but tried to explain, with the football analogy, why there’s but a relatively small part that fanatically supports the brand.

    As with regards to Japan, I advise you to read some books about the country (not manga but about Japanese culture). It’s very different from the Western world and that’s also why it’s often quite easy to make fun of (often poorly translated) quotes of the likes of Ken Kutaragi, Kojima, etc. In my view this however doesn’t show the wit of the commenter but his total lack of understanding cultural context.
    Edited by Les at 29/09/06 @ 13:22

  • miiiguel #117 6 years ago

    Les: yeah, I mean you can be right, there can be examples of "brand ubber alles" and case studied that can show that a compnie is part of you family, bla-bla (no offense intended), but companies main (and most of times) only goal is to make money, be them Japanese, US, European, or Ethiopian, it's profit that matters!

  • Les #118 6 years ago

    “Les: yeah, I mean you can be right, there can be examples of "brand ubber alles" and case studied that can show that a compnie is part of you family, bla-bla (no offense intended), but companies main (and most of times) only goal is to make money, be them Japanese, US, European, or Ethiopian, it's profit that matters!”

    Yeah companies are there to make money, but even in this respect, Japanese companies are (or at least used to be) quite different from their Western counterparts. Firing people to reduce cost and improve profit was not a thing Japanese companies did. They really care(d) for their employees like a sort of family.

    To illustrate the differences between Japanese and Western views, there’s a famous anecdote about a Western company that produced radio’s and contracted a Japanese manufacturer for the chip that would be used. They agreed that a failure rate of 5% of the chips would be acceptable. After a while the first shipment arrived at the plant of the Western company, consisting of two boxes: one containing the 95% chips that worked and one the 5% that didn’t. ;)

  • miiiguel #119 6 years ago

    @Les "They agreed that a failure rate of 5% of the chips would be acceptable. After a while the first shipment arrived at the plant of the Western company, consisting of two boxes: one containing the 95% chips that worked and one the 5% that didn’t. ;)"

    LOL. Yeah..., but I think they've chaged since. I have 4 dead pixels in my PSP, I phoned Sony and they said:
    Me: "Look I want to have my PSP fixed 'cos it has 4 dead pixels"
    Sony helpdesk: "We're sorry but we only replace units with more than 5 dead pixels"
    Me: "I don't want a defective system, that has less than 2 hours out of the box"
    Sony helpdesk: "You got to live with it..., sir"

  • ave #120 6 years ago

    Les, I cant believe how full of shit you are.

    All your posts boil down to "I cant give any reasons or provide any evidence, but MS in the console market means certain doom for gaming" and "Competition is good, unless it's MS and then competition is bad, and no competition is good if its Sony because they need the money more!" or "Sony cant afford to not have a monopoly in videogames, so if MS succeeds in being healthy competition to Sony, Sony will start losing money and have to close".

    Do i need to point out the hypocrisy or stupidity?

    Sony made ridiculous profits on both the PS1 and PS2(in 2000, SCEI accounted for 28% of Sony Corps net profit), so much so that it used the videogaming part of the business to prop up (mainly) the electronics division. While you will see headlines of its gaming division posting large losses, this is due to mainly PS3 R&D costs and to a much smaller extent slowing sales of PS2/games.(A good comparison to this is how MS uses its monopoly with Windows to prop up its less profitable or start up divisons)

    The 85% profit margin on Windows was for 2002 btw, it's at approx 76% for 2006, and expected to be down more for 2007

    Oh, and MS makes more on the office suite and server/tools than it does on the OS.

    As for Japenese companies somehow being "better" to their employees than western ones, I suggest you read up on how some of the biggest Japenese megacorps treat foreign employees.

    PS, try be less condescending when talking from your arse.
    Edited by ave at 29/09/06 @ 16:13

  • miiiguel #121 6 years ago

    You got to give it to ave, Les, you do sound a bit like, monopoly is bad unless it's from Sony.

    Monopoly is allways bad, that's also why do my share, I bought a 360 (not really the reason as I said before, but it'll do, lol), and every SuSE distro.

  • Les #122 6 years ago

    "Les, I cant believe how full of shit you are."

    I'm not really the kind to go swearing, but your post is kind of silly. But I'll forgive you and do you the service of pointing out where you went wrong.

    First, I didn't say MS is doom for gaming, I said it's doom for the console (standard hardware config) because in the end MS is a software company and only went into the hardware business to push its software solutions. 360 is a strategic choice in order to realise the mision: every device should have a MS OS. Second, I didn't say I don't want Sony to have competition, I said I did, competition is good. But if faced with the choice between one company having two monopolies or two companies with each of one of those monopolies, I'd go for the latter (and for all I care one party will be MS and the other Nintento). But, see below, Sony has never been close to achieving monopoly status.

    Third, Sony did make huge profits in it's gaming division but nowhere near the profits MS makes on Windows and, like you point out, on its other monopoly product Office. Of course a company wants to make a profit, there's nothing wrong with that. It's also not wrong to use money you make in one division put to use in another, that's called making use of synergy. What is accepted in general by capitalists however is that monopolies are not beneficial to the consumer. With MS we have seen where it may lead to: the ability to reap huge profits (76% for the Windows division is still enormously high and I guess the fact that it's down a bit is because of problems with developing Vista and extensive marketing expenses in 2007) paid for by us (either directly or indirectly) and use this to create other monopolies, like that for office software.

    Fourth, an essential part of a console manufacturer's business is R&D for its next console generation. It's part of the operational cost. So the fact that Sony right now isn't profitable combined with their less than great financial position is a quite accurate sign they haven't been able to reap excessive profit margins, because they had competition (which I'm for to repeat it again).

    Fifth, I NEVER, EVER, EVER, said Japanese companies are better for their employees, just different. Furthermore, we were discussing the situation in Japan itself, not abroad or with regards to foreigners, because you're right, that's a totally different situation. It was about why football teams in Japan are named after brands and I explained that this was one of the effects of the Japanese company functioning like a sort of familiy IN Japan (and only for Japanese, an outsider will always be an outsider).

    So in the future, before you make stupid remarks, read carefully, try to understand what was written, and then come with your comments.
    Edited by Les at 29/09/06 @ 17:56

  • ave #123 6 years ago

    "First, I didn't say MS is doom for gaming, I said it's doom for the console (standard hardware config)"
    Liar, you said "I would say it's the worst thing that ever happened to console gaming. MS will destroy it, it's just a matter of time."

    "because in the end MS is a software company and only went into the hardware business to push its software solutions."
    You know this how?

    "360 is a strategic choice in order to realise the mision: every device should have a MS OS."
    How is that a bad thing per se?

    "Second, I didn't say I don't want Sony to have competition, I said I did, competition is good." Actually you said(paraphrasing) "I want Sony to have competition, only so long as it doesnt break their monopoly."

    "But if faced with the choice between one company having two monopolies or two companies with each of one of those monopolies, I'd go for the latter (and for all I care one party will be MS and the other Nintento)."
    Thats not what you said earlier, what you said earlier was its better to be a sony monopoly than a MS monopoly(even though there's no sign of it becoming a microsoft monopoly other than your bullshit doom and gloom).

    "But, see below, Sony has never been close to achieving monopoly status."
    Really, so ~75% of the console hardware market from 2000-2006 and 70-80% of the software market isnt near a monopoly?

    "Third, Sony did make huge profits in it's gaming division but nowhere near the profits MS makes on Windows and, like you point out"
    So? You're the one who said "It has never been able to create ridiculously high profits because there was competition."
    Compared to what nintendo and sega made with their console divisions, they did make ridiculously high profits and you cant compare like with like when you compare Microsoft as a whole with Sony's gaming division only.

    "on its other monopoly product Office."
    Unlikes Windows, office is only a monopoly because people like it.
    Use staroffice if it bothers you.

    "and use this to create other monopolies, like that for office software."
    Funny fact, in the late 80's MS Word had a 70% market share on the mac and excel had a 60% market share(or was it vice versa?).

    "an essential part of a console manufacturer's business is R&D for its next console generation. It's part of the operational cost."
    Yes, and it's roughly 12 months of net losses after 60 months of net profits.

    "So the fact that Sony right now isn't profitable combined with their less than great financial position is a quite accurate sign they haven't been able to reap excessive profit margins, because they had competition (which I'm for to repeat it again)."
    No it isnt an accurate sign, the fact that SCEI which accounted for about 8% of Sony's revenue accounted for 28% of its net profit puts paid to that.
    Now, since you imply you know lots about economics explain your leap of logic to me:
    How does making SCEI making a loss last year have anything to do with them making profits for the last 6 years? As I'm sure you know, you dont add last years net profits to this years, so making a loss due to high production and r&d costs says what exactly about previous profitability?

    "Fifth, I NEVER, EVER, EVER, said Japanese companies are better for their employees, just different."
    You implied they were better.

    "Furthermore, we were discussing the situation in Japan itself, not abroad or with regards to foreigners, because you're right, that's a totally different situation."
    Really? I never seen any caveats, or anyone else mention "we're only talking about how japanese companies treat japanese employees" which makes me think you're trying to backpedal.



    "So in the future, before you make stupid remarks, read carefully, try to understand what was written, and then come with your comments."
    Liar liar pants on fire!

    All your rebuttal was, was "Hey i didnt say that, I said this*frantically re-words quotes and adds new caveats*!"
    Edited by ave at 29/09/06 @ 18:44

  • Les #124 6 years ago

    Jezus, you're really stupid (sorry, starting to lose my temper).

    End of "console gaming" = end of the console, not of gaming in general. Please learn to read with intelligence.

    ""because in the end MS is a software company and only went into the hardware business to push its software solutions."
    You know this how?"
    You wanna argue that MS is a software company by nature?! That they will go out of hardware once they've achieved their target (no non-Windows consoles left), is no fact, I'll concede that but it's derived from common business sense: hardware is not their core business, profit margins are low in general so shareholders wouldn't welcome a long time stay in hardware as it would reduce (and currently reduces) the profitability of MS. And I didn't make this up (although I easily could), google the internet, there are analysts that made this prediction before. These are my OPINIONS, underpinned with LOGIC. You may attack my logic, with logic, not just silly shout-outs. If I knew the future, I would be wealthier than Bill Gates, buy up MS and make Windows source code available under the GPL.

    ""360 is a strategic choice in order to realise the mision: every device should have a MS OS."
    How is that a bad thing per se?"
    Monoplies and their negative impact on price and innovation, stupid! I said I'm all for common standards, but there are better ways to achieve this than through monopolies.

    ""and use this to create other monopolies, like that for office software."
    Funny fact, in the late 80's MS Word had a 70% market share on the mac and excel had a 60% market share(or was it vice versa?)."
    So?! It's 2006 and they have a monopoly in office software right now. Your point is pointless.

    "As I'm sure you know, you dont add last years net profits to this years, so making a loss due to high production and r&d costs says what exactly about previous profitability?"
    What the fact that they aren't rich despite some very good years tells you that their profit margins weren't excessive (and I've never contested they weren't big, just that they were kept in check by competition). That 8% of revenue makes up 28% of net provits doesn't prove the profits were excessive, it's far more likely an indication that the other divisions made losses or very small margins. Sony never had a monopoly and would never have been able to achieve one. And I wouldn't want them to, to stress it again and again until it gets into your thick head.


    "Fifth, I NEVER, EVER, EVER, said Japanese companies are better for their employees, just different."
    You implied they were better."
    No I didn't. I said it's stupid to look with our Western ideas/values to Japan and make hasty judgements.

    "Really? I never seen any caveats, or anyone else mention "we're only talking about how japanese companies treat japanese employees" which makes me think you're trying to backpedal."
    Read the posts again and again and again and again until it gets into that thick head of yours that we were discussing Japanese companies in general having their own sports teams in Japan and that the clubs are named after brands because they originated from brands. Point was: Japan is different NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT better.

    "Liar liar pants on fire!"
    LOL if it weren't so sad... :'(

    "All your rebuttal was, was "Hey i didnt say that, I said this!""
    I'd say in general if an audience doesn't get what the presenter is trying to tell, the fault is with the presenter. But there are limits to this. I didn't come back on my words or twisted them in any strange way, I politely and gentily tried to make you understand. I was being kind.

    Now stop trying to be smart because obviously, you're not (although if you didn't get my points due to your or my poor command of the English language, I apologise, but that doesn't seem to be the case).
    Edited by Les at 29/09/06 @ 19:35

  • ave #125 6 years ago

    Haha, again all you did was lie about what you said and hope people wouldnt bother to check your old posts and read for themselves.

    I'm not stupid enough to feed an anti-MS fanboy troll anymore when he cant come up with anything better than "ok, I said this, you quoted this, BUT SUDDENLY, MAGICLY IT HAS A NEW IMPROVED MEANING THAT DEFEATS YOUR POINT COMPLETELY!".

    Enjoy your pointless, logicless rabid hatred.

  • Les #126 6 years ago

    "Enjoy your pointless, logicless rabid hatred."

    I don't hate MS, it's silly to hate companies, like I said but you can't read and understand what's being said. I said I'm against monopolies. I'm just expressing my fears, you don't have to share them. Now please stop with your silly ranting before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

  • ave #127 6 years ago

    Aww, I just cant help myself :(

    "End of "console gaming" = end of the console, not of gaming in general. Please learn to read with intelligence."
    You said "end of the console(standard hardware config)" not the end of console gaming, wtf is your point, first it was the end of console gaming, then end of the console as a standard hardware config, then the end of consoles in general.

    Please learn to read and write with intelligence.

    "You wanna argue that MS is a software company by nature?!"
    Since when has core business mattered? In case you didnt notice diversity is considered a necessity for large corporates these days(shit, sony has an online bank for gods sake, does that mean as soon as they get every banking user to use Sony TV's and playstations they'll close it down?)

    "That they will go out of hardware once they've achieved their target (no non-Windows consoles left), is no fact,"
    If they get out of console hardware, I'm sure the likes of nintendo and sega will be happy to launch gaming only consoles again, if MS do indeed intend to evolve consoles into cheap PC's and lure people over.
    But then, I dont think MS is that stupid.

    "I'll concede that but it's derived from common business sense:"
    Hardly.

    "hardware is not their core business"
    Regardless of that, Microsoft doesnt fabricate the majority of the hardware, it only assembles afaik.

    "profit margins are low in general so shareholders wouldn't welcome a long time stay in hardware"
    Shareholders also know the benefit of diversity, especially with big murmurings in both the US and the EU over the OS monopoly.

    "as it would reduce (and currently reduces) the profitability of MS."
    Shareholders also arent stupid, they understand that things can cost in the short term and pay out over the long term, which is the basics of MS's business plan in consoles.(Especially since many of the major investors are pensions)

    "Monoplies and their negative impact on price and innovation, stupid! I said I'm all for common standards, but there are better ways to achieve this than through monopolies."
    Where I come from when people say device it's usually a plural rather than a singular(as in THE playstation 2 is a device, not THIS playstation 2 is a device).
    In that sense, every device having a microsft OS is just the sound business plan of having a microsoft OS available for every platform, not every individual device using one.

    "So?! It's 2006 and they have a monopoly in office software right now. Your point is pointless."
    How is it pointless? You said they used the OS monopoly to fund the office monopoly, when it was office profits that funded the OS monopoly.

    Your point is pointless!


    "What the fact that they aren't rich despite some very good years tells you that their profit margins weren't excessive"
    Their profit margins were large, the fact that they arent "very" rich now is due to them being a massive corporation.

    "(and I've never contested they weren't big, just that they were kept in check by competition)."
    How were they kept in check by competition? having 70% of hardware sales is hardly being kept in check by competition.

    "That 8% of revenue makes up 28% of net provits doesn't prove the profits were excessive"
    Where did I say excessive? I said high profits(how can you have excessive profits?)

    "it's far more likely an indication that the other divisions made losses or very small margins."
    Which again would indicate that SCEI had good margins would it not?

    "Sony never had a monopoly and would never have been able to achieve one."
    They came close(and would have one had MS not entered).

    "And I wouldn't want them to, to stress it again and again until it gets into your thick head."
    But you just said you would want them to, instead of MS having one.


    "No I didn't. I said it's stupid to look with our Western ideas/values to Japan and make hasty judgements."
    Actually you never said that.
    Provide quotes or stfu please.

    "Read the posts again and again and again and again until it gets into that thick head of yours that we were discussing Japanese companies in general having their own sports teams in Japan and that the clubs are named after brands because they originated from brands."
    And that has what to do with what I said?

    "Point was: Japan is different NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT better."
    Point was: You implied they were better NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT different.


    "I'd say in general if an audience doesn't get what the presenter is trying to tell, the fault is with the presenter. But there are limits to this. I didn't come back on my words or twisted them in any strange way"
    I suggest you re-read.

    "Now stop trying to be smart because obviously, you're not (although if you didn't get my points due to your or my poor command of the English language, I apologise, but that doesn't seem to be the case)."
    kk, I'm not smart because I always back up what I say and dont come back later and go "I said x, but meant Y, wait i never said X I said Y :D", you are smart because you condescend, lie, obfuscate and change your mind a lot.

    t'was fun typing this while afk'ing through bwl though I'm sure no-one but you will be bothered to read this.
    Edited by ave at 29/09/06 @ 21:09

  • morriss #128 6 years ago

    Les is just churnig out what Sony themselves say and what everyone who is anti-MS has said for the last 10 years. Why bother arguing with him?

    He's buying a PS3, he's gonna love the games and moreover he's made what he thinks is a sound political choice.

    Good on him.

  • Lex_Luthor #129 6 years ago

    "Poor lex,

    reduced to trolling on a 360 article while he indures the long wait for PS3."

    Where's the troll you twat?

  • Les #130 6 years ago

    "kk, I'm not smart because I always back up what I say and dont come back later and go "I said x, but meant Y, wait i never said X I said Y :D", you are smart because you condescend, lie, obfuscate and change your mind a lot.

    t'was fun typing this while afk'ing through bwl though I'm sure no-one but you will be bothered to read this."

    No I didn't read your whole post, just skipped to the summary because its bound to be pointless. You're probably again displaying (and probably on purpose) that you have no clue about logic or about how to structure an argument and repeating the same unfunded claims. I change my mind when someone proves me wrong with logic, not when someone uses poor logic and poorly written rants. I didn't contradict what I said, you can put my posts next to each other and clearly see that. If you are unable or unwilling to admit this or are just trying to annoy me, fine, your problem. I've tried to have a mature discussion with you but you're unwilling/unable to join in. It's no use debating with fools or the deaf, so I'll quit. Please feel free to follow up on this post with yet another rant out of misplaced humour or stupidity, hope you're having fun.

    @ morris
    "Les is just churnig out what Sony themselves say and what everyone who is anti-MS has said for the last 10 years. Why bother arguing with him?"

    Why would I churn out what Sony says?! I've never heard or read them state this and I'd never foolishly follow a company. A company isn't there for my benefit, companies are purely focused on my money. And the 1000 time, I'm not anti-microsoft, why would I? I think their office suite is a good product and definetely an improvement upon Word Perfect, Lotus Notes and Lotus-1-2-3 (yeah I'm old enough to have worked with those). The quality of that product was definetely one of the reasons why they beat the competition. What I am disappointed about though, is that since they gained market dominance, real improvements to the software are non-existent. Sure, futures are added from time to time, but I'd rather have them fixing the formatting and layout bugs first before starting with the nice-to-haves. But I understand why they're not putting effort into those areas because it makes less sense to them from a business perspective. They have market dominance and can now afford to be a bit sloppy. That way they service their owners, the shareholders, the best. The fault is not with MS, it's with law always following upon socio-economical changes. There were no rules to prevent software monopolies from happening and so they happened. Once they became a reality, it was too late. I'm not saying I've got the answer for this problem, because I don't.

    What ave is doing is not arguing, it's either foolishness or a successful try to annoy me (probably, and I hope for his sake, the latter). There's every point in arguing with me, because if you'll prove my logic wrong, I'll be happy to admit it, eventually.

    "He's buying a PS3, he's gonna love the games and moreover he's made what he thinks is a sound political choice."

    I've not made up my mind about which (if any) next-gen console to buy yet, although chances are very small it'll be a 360. Part of it is because of my as you call it 'political' choice (I think it'll serve my long term interests best and I know that with that choice I'm missing out on some good games (Forza 2 and Lost Planet in particular)) and the other part is that I think it might be the package that offers the best value for ME (a combination of the potential games catalogue (which of course must still be proven to be any good), the wifi, BluRay (for the games, not for movies: I'm perfectly happy with my non-HD TV and will only replace it with a HD one if it brakes down and non-HD sets aren't in the stores anymore, because I don't think watching a movie in HD will make my life better/has real value) and the fact that I can play many of my old games on it). You may very well make a different choice for your own good reasons. I'm not judging you on it. And I hope you won't judge me.

    Once again, this post is way too long, as I'm not very good at being short and some people apparently value it when you write what you mean as well as explicitly mentioning everything that you don't want to it to mean.

    There's a lot of fanboy ranting on this site, some (most?) tongue-in-cheek, some heartfully meant. I appreciate the first, I detest the latter.

    edit: sorry for the spelling errors but it's quite late and I can't be bothered to correct them all right now.
    Edited by Les at 30/09/06 @ 02:10

  • BartonFink #131 6 years ago

    It's not the spelling you should be worried about Les ;)

  • Les #132 6 years ago

    You don't mean you actually read all that shit do you?! ;)

  • BartonFink #133 6 years ago

    Nope lost interest after ave's first post :D
    I presume at that hour a little alcohol had been imbibed?
    Edited by BartonFink at 30/09/06 @ 11:11

  • Les #134 6 years ago

    "I presume at that hour a little alcohol had been imbibed?"

    LOL, yeah, a little (the working life and time progressing have seriously destroyed my alcohol tollerance levels and staying in bed for a day is too high a cost to pay for a fun night out).

  • SexyBodyBuilderDude #135 6 years ago

    Les;

    I'm new to this site, so I don't know who mikegoblue is, but I can tell ya one thing: I checked out all the links ed_gamer provided, and they were perfect. If you don't agree with the things he said, that is up to you. But dude, you really need to go back to school, because he is saying honest things as simply as 1,2,3.

    If you know how to count to three, you should know the Xbox 360 drinks a gallon of gas and pisses all over Sony's campfire for the PS3.

    Ed_gamer just says so in a simple way and offers links to prove it. I'd listen to that guy before I would listen to someone like you who makes accusations and runs his mouth like that idiot lex_luthor guy.

    By the way, Ed, that was awesome the way you rubbed lex's face in the dirt!

  • Lutz #136 6 years ago

    sandbox