Final PS3 hardware to be more powerful than E3 demos?

By Games Industry.biz Published 27 June, 2005

Similar situation to X360.

The PlayStation 3 hardware used at E3 last month was running at only 75 per cent of the final system speed, according to reports which have emerged this week - confirming comments made by SCEE development boss Phil Harrison at the show.

"It only gets better from here on in," Harrison told our sister site GamesIndustry.biz at the time, referring to the performance of the system. "As you get closer and closer to production hardware, you're using more and more like the final silicon, which will be more and more like the final clock speed."

Now Japanese website ITmedia has revealed that the development kits used to run demos including Epic Games' stunning Unreal Tournament 2007 demo were running on hardware clocked at just 75 per cent of the final projected speed.

The Cell chip in the development kits runs at 2.4GHz, according to ITmedia, while the final chip will be at 3.2GHz; and the graphics part used for the demos wasn't the final RSX chip, but rather a different NVIDIA GPU which may not have been optimised for the PS3's high-speed RAMBUS memory interface.

Of course, Sony wasn't the only company showing off titles on unfinished hardware at E3. Microsoft claims that the Xbox 360 titles it showed off weren't representative of the final games, since they were running on alpha-version development kits which have as little as 25 per cent of the power of the final system.

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Comments (125) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • drumbaby #1 7 years ago

    PSM magazine are saying that the Killzone footage is indeed using the game engine, and is definitely not CGI, but was only running at 5fps max. It was sped up for the sake of the presentation.

    Now hopefully this extra 25% performance will translate to more than just another 1.25 fps in the finished Kzone 3 game.

    :)

  • markypants #2 7 years ago

    Blah Blah Blah, look how big my willy is, Blah Blah Blah.

  • tpfkanep #3 7 years ago

    "As you get closer and closer to production hardware, you're using more and more like the final silicon, which will be more and more like the final clock speed."
    - Which sounds more and more like bullshit, Phil.

  • octo #4 7 years ago

    *Commits Sepuku*

  • teabagger #5 7 years ago

    tpfkanep: Actually, that's true mate and always has been with new devkits. Final devkit hardware is usually changing right up until a month or two before launch.

  • drumbaby #6 7 years ago

    "- Which sounds more and more like bullshit, Phil."

    Or simple common sense, depending on whether you've actually got any yourself. :)

  • #7 7 years ago

    ' PSM magazine are saying that the Killzone footage is indeed using the game engine, and is definitely not CGI'

    well they're lying. the scottish company that pre-rendered that footage will be most upset to hear such things...

  • groovychainsaw #8 7 years ago

    PR guy #1: Oh no! Microsoft have said that their hardware will be more powerful than at E3 - we need a strategy now!
    PR guy #2: I know! What if we say our hardware will also be more powerful, so nobody can compare anything until both consoles are launched?!
    PR Guy #1: Geniuus! - To the pub, comrades!

  • teabagger #9 7 years ago

    Yeah, I don't know why they keep insisting KZ2 was in-game. It's almost on a par with that Iraqi guy "There are no American tanks in Bagdad".

    Heavenly sword was a capture from the game engine though, which is nice.

  • drumbaby #10 7 years ago

    PR guy #1: Oh no! Sony have said that their hardware will be more powerful than at E3 - we need a strategy now!
    PR guy #2: I know! What if we say our hardware will also be more powerful, so nobody can compare anything until both consoles are launched?!
    PR Guy #1: Geniuus! - To the pub, comrades!

  • #11 7 years ago

    from a Q&A on playstation.co.uk:

    Guerrilla's stunning PLAYSTATION 3 trailer, showing the future of the Killzone series, is the talk of the town here in LA (as well as the Internet at large). We did some digging...

    Jan-Bart Van Beek is the Game Director of the PS3 Killzone at Guerrilla Games, and has spent the last few months working on the trailer that really blew the crowd away at Monday's PLAYSTATION 3 unveiling. After a second showing of the trailer at today's SCEE conference received another rapturous round of applause, we caught up with Jan to find out more.

    How do you feel about the reaction to the trailer that was shown yesterday?

    Jan-Bart: It's been an amazing reception, the rush you get from seeing your own stuff on the big screen like that, and then the reaction to it, it's a big rush, I'm really happy about it.

    How long ago did work start on the sequence?

    Jan-Bart: We started working on it in late November, and only finished it three days before the show, at the very, very last moment!

    It seemed like Killzone, only more so! Is that what we can expect from the finished game?

    Jan-Bart: We want to avoid having just Killzone with more beautiful graphics. We want to add a lot more to it than that. So we're adding a lot more character interaction, with the ways they respond to you and how you can react to them. There's a lot more interactions between characters like you see in the trailer, people dragging each other off out of combat and helping each other, giving each other their weapons - a lot more real human interaction, basically.

    [Ben Duncan, the game's Producer] It's like with the Alfred Molina demo, the quality of facial animation we can get with the characters means you'll really feel that emotional sense of being part of a unit and fighting together. Characters working together, comrades pulling each other back from the field of battle; that kind of thing is really going to move the genre forward.

    There's a great moment where you see an ISA ally take out a Helghan with his rifle butt to save your bacon... is that representative of the kind of sophisticated behaviour we'll start seeing in artificial intelligence when PS3 arrives?

    Jan-Bart: Yes, totally, it's just the start. Characters will be very aware, very alert to how they might be able to help you. That moment [with the rifle butt] is a good example of how it can add a little visual 'wow' to it all.

    Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PLAYSTATION 3?

    Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

    Have you found PS3 easy to work with?

    JB: Yes, we're really impressed with it. The Cell is amazingly powerful, and the graphics CPU [the RSX, co-developed with Nvidia] in there... it's actually hard to mimic it on our development PCs, we have to see it on the PS3 hardware itself. It's really nice to be working with such powerful hardware.

    As yet, high definition TV isn't that widespread, especially in Europe - are you concerned that some players won't get to see your game in as much detail as is intended?

    JB: No, I think in two, three years' time, HDTV will be a lot more accepted, in Europe too. We'll start out with 720p and then [onto 1080p] as there's now this product [PS3] that people will want to buy a new TV for.

    Thanks, and congratulations on the work.

  • Dizzy #12 7 years ago

    What demos?

    And BTW how can anybody tak Jan-Bart seriously. It is not like these guys have proven they can make groundbraking new games??? It's not like they are the forerunners of killer game design.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 09:56

  • Blerk #13 7 years ago

    Hang on, arnie - didn't you forget to write "omfg, POS3 is teh suXX0r5!!!11' just then? :-)

  • #14 7 years ago

    why do i have to be a fanboy when discussing cold, hard facts?

  • Blerk #15 7 years ago

    I wish they'd stop blathering about how powerful it is and actually show us some bleedin' games.

    Be quiet and finish the funting thing. Then come back with playable things.

  • Blerk #16 7 years ago

    why do i have to be a fanboy when discussing cold, hard facts?

    Aw, bless ya, arn. I'm only pulling your leg.

  • Frogger #17 7 years ago

    Teabagger : "It's almost on a par with that Iraqi guy "There are no American tanks in Bagdad"."

    Or on a par with that american guy "There are weapons of mass destruction in Bagdad".

  • JHuxley #18 7 years ago

    "PR guy #1: Oh no! Microsoft have said that their hardware will be more powerful than at E3 - we need a strategy now!"

    25% is extremely optimistic. 75 is a little more realistic, at least. It will probably just imrpove frame rates for the early games. Nothing unexpected.

  • tpfkanep #19 7 years ago

    teabagger: Fair enough. But as the Blerkster stated:
    Be quiet and finish the funting thing. Then come back with playable things.

    Nintendo, I salute you.

  • #20 7 years ago

    i like the way sony lied about killzone, they have no credibility at all

    'Then a post on the Eurogamer forums laid out a tantalizing conspiracy: Axis Animation, the same Scottish computer animation company that made a cinematic for the first Killzone, had been working on the E3 demo for months as straight-up CG. So how does Sony respond to the allegations? Far from being evasive, it met them head-on. "Yes, it is real time," a rep told GameSpot.'

    um, geurilla admitted that it was CG, so what does that sony rep say now i wonder?

  • drumbaby #21 7 years ago

    TGS in a couple of months. Shall we all be really boring, and STFU until then?

    No way! What'd be the fun in that? :)

  • Yaz #22 7 years ago

    "so what does that sony rep say now i wonder?"

    I'm just wondering what Tom and Rob have to say now, since at E3 they swallowed it hook, line and sinker. ;)

  • Mint #23 7 years ago

    I give this thread 15 minutes before the anti-Sony lunatics come out in full force.

  • deaner #24 7 years ago

    I thought this was all made pretty clear at E3.

    Still, it's nice to be reassured.

  • Kafeen #25 7 years ago

    Just because something looks better than you expected it doesn't mean it isn't genuine. I remember reading something on IGN, I think it was when they were shown a game, Burnout3 I think, when the guys showing the demo left they were laughed at because IGN thought all they had was pre-rendered FMV. Turned out it was actual in game footage when the game was released.

  • #26 7 years ago

    'I'm just wondering what Tom and Rob have to say now, since at E3 they swallowed it hook, line and sinker. ;)'

    my guess is that they will stay pretty damn quiet about it. :D
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 10:30

  • Wash #27 7 years ago

    More the fools at IGN then cos Burnout 3 wasnt that spectacular visually.

  • JHuxley #28 7 years ago

    Arnie, I'm not saying the Killzone trailer was realtime, but 'representation' can mean a lot of things. You're reading too much into it.

  • #29 7 years ago

    the killzone trailer was a pre-rendered piece of video that was made as a representation of what guerilla say we can expect from Killzone 2.

    what am i reading into it thats not true?

  • JHuxley #30 7 years ago

    "the killzone trailer was a pre-rendered piece of video"

    That part. Nowhere in that interview are the words 'pre-rendered video' used.

  • Xerx3s #31 7 years ago

    In other news, man has landed on the moon. After centuries of wonder, we actually found ppl who where stupid enough to go for us.

    [...]

    Duh, they have ALWAYS said that the ps3 and xb2 where running on 75% power. However, thats does not break down the fact that EVERYTHING for the ps3 was PRERENDERD. 75% of a cpu that is dedicated to FP is still NULL, ZILTCH, NADA, NOTHING, ZERO.

    Anyway, humor us EG, tell us something new (and no, we already know that the UK was cut off from the main land by sea several million years ago)!

  • Blerk #32 7 years ago

    Duh, they have ALWAYS said that the ps3 and xb2 where running on 75% power. However, thats does not break down the fact that EVERYTHING for the ps3 was PRERENDERD. 75% of a cpu that is dedicated to FP is still NULL, ZILTCH, NADA, NOTHING, ZERO.

    I thought the 360 was running at 33%?

    And wasn't the Unreal Engine demo on the PS3 'playable'?

  • lefizz #33 7 years ago

    Killzone2 was pure CG and was I garantee done by Axis. I couldnt give a toss what sony or anyone else says a mate works there and sent me a link to the video the day of the sony presentation saying 'this is what we have been working on for the past 8 weeks'. I watched it and it just made me laugh how much all the major site around E3 ie IGN, Gamespot and even EG were 'just blown away' by this peice of video.

    Ok maybe the model might be used in game but what ever they do they cannot recreate the level of detail in that sequence. How could you recreate something that took days to rendered in Lightwave on a renderfarm in realtime. Not yet i dont think.

    Usual Sony Bollox, no one remeber 'The emotion Engine'.

    If you want a real idea what to expect from PS3 and Xbox 360 go read the excellent write up on Anandtech at the moment, superb read.

    My comments are 100% garanteed, the person who told me from Axis knows less about the Games industry than i do about flower arranging, just works in animation and wanted to show me what they had been working on.

  • Gurgeh #34 7 years ago

    For a sensible discussion of the hardware inside the PS 3 and XBox 360 go to

    ht tp://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453

    "At the end of day 1, when running mostly single threaded code, the performance difference from a CPU standpoint between the Xbox 360’s Xenon and the PS3’s Cell processor is basically a wash. The 360 has more cache, while the Cell has a lower latency path to main memory. In the end, the first generation or two of games will mainly be a GPU battle between the two consoles, and both will offer significant improvements over what we have with current consoles. "

    Other bits:

    "The transition to multi-threaded development alone will increase development time 2 or 3 fold... The Xbox 360 is clearly going to be the easier of the two to develop for once a game engine is multi-threaded, just because of the general purpose nature of its hardware. That being said, it won’t be impossible to get the same level of performance out of the PS3, it will just take more work"

    "Graphics-wise the 360’s Xenos GPU and the PS3’s RSX are fairly different in implementation, but may end up being very similar in performance."

  • JHuxley #35 7 years ago

    Blerk, you keep forgetting that Xerx3s had exclusive access to the PS3 demos at E3. So they're obviouslly ALL rendered and the PS3's processor is USELESS.

    *waits for someone to post a link to an article 'backing up' said claims*

    EDIT: Wow, Gurgeh beat me to it. Uncanny!
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 10:46

  • Blerk #36 7 years ago

    ... and for an interesting take on Anandtech's comments, read Arbiter's post towards the end of this thread. :-)

  • username #37 7 years ago

    So what's that in Teraflops?

  • #38 7 years ago

    i can't believe anyone thinks killzone was real-time. i equally can't believe that sony still try to pass it off as such.

    ridiculous.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 10:53

  • Blerk #39 7 years ago

    I can't believe anyone actually cares whether it was real or not. It wasn't a game, what does it matter?

  • captain-future #40 7 years ago

    *hmpf*

    lets see and wait until Q4/2006 resp. Q1/2007 when the PS3 launches in Europe.

  • #41 7 years ago

    it matters more now because sony are actively pursuing a campaign of fraud by continuing to attempt to pass killzone 2's pre-rendered video as real.

    they are lying to their customers.

  • teabagger #42 7 years ago

    "EVERYTHING for the ps3 was PRERENDERD"

    No. It. Wasn't.

    I agree Killzone was, but Unreal was realtime, Heavenly sword was captured directly from the game engine, techdemos were realtime... I can't think of anything else mind.

  • Blerk #43 7 years ago

    it matters more now because sony are actively pursuing a campaign of fraud by continuing to attempt to pass killzone 2's pre-rendered video as real.

    they are lying to their customers.

    Sony and every other company on the face of the planet. It's called 'Marketing'. Ever watch adverts for stuff on the telly? Nothing is as good as they say it is, you know.

  • #44 7 years ago

    seems like you concede my point there blerk.

  • teabagger #45 7 years ago

    Oh FFS arnie, why is it always about points scoring with you?

  • Blerk #46 7 years ago

    Well of course I do. Sony lies to its customers, as does Microsoft, Nintendo, MacDonalds, Nike and Budweiser. If anyone told the truth about their product nobody would ever buy anything.

    "Budweiser - it's beer. It tastes alright but is a bit expensive."
    "MacDonalds - reconstituted cow skin and fat - it'll make you unfit!"

    I just don't see the point in going on and on and on about it like Sony are the first company ever to 'bend the truth' in order to build up their product.

  • Dizzy #47 7 years ago

    >I just don't see the point in going on and on and on about it like Sony are the first company ever to 'bend the truth' in order to build up their product.

    I guess the problem was that EG believed it.

    Anway... we will see when we get to play the games.

  • Wash #48 7 years ago

    Hey i contest 1 point.

    Wanna know why maccies burgers look the way they do:

    A: Fat, stuck-up arsehole customers cant wait 300seconds for a burger to cook.
    B: The wages for the work suck. It could be one of the suckiest jobs in the world.

    The answer would be to stop eatin there, let the company die. but no...

    /rant over. ex-maccies employee.

    I think the point has to be, and i'm treading lightly. Sony are the leaders of the market so there comments can have a greater effect than say those of realitive minnows Nint£ndo and M$. I miss my dreamcast.

  • deaner #49 7 years ago

    There's no evidence that anyone is lying.

    Prove me wrong.

  • old_skool #50 7 years ago

    Quote from Gurgeh
    "The transition to multi-threaded development alone will increase development time 2 or 3 fold... The Xbox 360 is clearly going to be the easier of the two to develop for once a game engine is multi-threaded, just because of the general purpose nature of its hardware. That being said, it won’t be impossible to get the same level of performance out of the PS3, it will just take more work"

    Here's an interesting point from Toshiba about Cell development
    http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/200504 25/104149/

    "In the demonstration, Toshiba used an operating system environment it had developed to increase the efficiency of Cell software development. One of the environment's key features is that application software developers can program software without considering which threads will be allotted to each of the different SPEs, because the environment allows the automatically scheduling software to SPEs."

    If Microsoft and Sony develop a compiler that does what Toshiba's does then development shouldn't be that much of a problem.

  • Blerk #51 7 years ago

    The answer would be to stop eatin there, let the company die. but no...

    Mate, I never started eating there! I prefer my food to be, well, y'know... food!

  • Wash #52 7 years ago

    lol, Blerk..

    It is food, burgers are no different to that you'd buy at asda.. all beef. fries are just the same. Theres just not much care put into burgers when you have to do 6 macs in one go while the ravenous unwashed are calling for blood out front.

    The problem doesnt lie with the materials, just the way in which tehy are put together.

  • Tweakmonkey #53 7 years ago

    The problem doesnt lie with the materials

    I like McDonalds, but I'm not foolish enough to think that all the ingredients are of the finest quality or even fresh.

    Also an ex-McD employee.

  • Milbe #54 7 years ago

    Why is it so difficult to believe, those graphics could be real (when it is released)? Just look at Resident Evil 4 and multiply that quality to the nextgen teraflops level and the least you can expect is what Killzone shows. If nextgen is only there to have the same games again with some normal-mapping added, then there is no point.

    You can call me naive, but still...

  • #55 7 years ago

    After all the geek articles I've read recently, here's the deal in human terms.

    For at least the first two years of Xbox 360 and probably a lot more of the PS3's life, the games on them, won't be better than anything you have seen on the PC, both visually and technically. In most cases the physics won't even be as anywhere near as good as those in Half-Life 2. All games in development now, and in the near future are made for a single core.

    After this time, there is still no guarentee that developers will be fully able to exploit the multi-core nature of the machines to any extent and being that the graphics part of the PS3's is just a nVidia Geforce 7800 and the Xbox's ATI part only slighty better the visuals won't improve that much at all, certainly nowhere near the level of Killzone trailer.

    It's all bullshit, SONY is talking shit, and Microsoft are the only realists in this generation pre launch hype. Read any real technical outlook written buy anyone who doesn't work for or on the respective machines, they'll say the same.

  • Wash #56 7 years ago

    "foolish enough to think that all the ingredients are of the finest quality or even fresh."

    Only as much as any frozen produce you buy i spose theres no real way of telling.

  • Teeth #57 7 years ago

    It's really funny how the same people turn up in all the same threads saying the same things, and people still respond to them!

  • Blerk #58 7 years ago

    So... what's your take on MacDonalds, teeth? :-)

  • Yaz #59 7 years ago

    "There's no evidence that anyone is lying."

    Yep, no-one is actually lying, in the same way that Clinton wasn't lying when he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman", knowing full well that whilst he was technically correct, he was not as innocent as he was suggesting.

    Sony knew what everyone wanted to know about Killzone and they could have easily cleared it up by saying "It was running at a very low frame rate on a PS3 devkit and sped up to 60fps". So why didn't they? Well given the hype, it's obvious.

    Whenever asked about Killzone being realtime, we got Clinton-like answers of "Yes, it's all gameplay", or "It's done to spec", or "It's a representation of the look and feel of the game" etc. Everything except "It was pre-rendered" as many believed (except Eurogamer and others).

    6 weeks after E3, we finally have confirmation that it was pre-rendered and not rendered in realtime, information that we should have know from the beginning! So instead of having gamers (and websites) making fools of themselves by thinking it was realtime, we could have been discussing how close the final game will be to that footage when optimised and running on final hardware, since it was pre-rendered via the actual game engine (although I still wonder how much post production work was involved).

    Hmmm, I wonder what the reaction would have been like if instead of Sony with Killzone, it was Microsoft who stole the show with incredible pre-rendered footage of Halo 3 or PDZ, and they allowed people to think it was realtime for weeks. ;)
    Edited by 3 at 27/06/05 @ 12:24

  • JHuxley #60 7 years ago

    Balor: Not quite sure how you came to that conclusion, assuming you're talking about the various tech-related articles posted here. If anything, later in the console's life cycle games will far outstrip anything currently available on the PC if only because the architecture is set in stone, allowing them to fully optimise code. Check out something like Burnout 3 on the PS2 and compare it with a PC game running the equivleant specs. In human terms, I think we can expect something *approaching* the Killzone 2 trailer on either of the next-gen consoles within their 5 year life-cycle. And considering that MS boasted about 'reaching billions' and using 25% of the final hardware, I'd say Nintendo are the only realists with all this pre-launch hype, if only because they've not released anything too specific yet.

    Teeth: we're only having some fun, eh?

  • Yaz #61 7 years ago

    "Why is it so difficult to believe, those graphics could be real (when it is released)?"

    That's a different arguement.

    The main problem for gamers like myself with Killzone at E3 was that we knew there was no way that Guerilla could have the game up and running in realtime TO THAT QUALITY on unfinished hardware! That's why we knew it was pre-rendered. So when you have gamers and websites like Eurogamer declaring the PS3 as significantly better than XBox 360 based upon pre-rendered footage, we argued against that view.

    Will the final game match the quality seen? Well, although I believe the model quality will be less (but still looking great due to normal mapping), I think it depends on when the game is due for release, i.e. the longer it takes the better, and even then it's more likely to be 30fps than 60fps.

    But we'll see. IMO, years from now, when the most talented developers start to really push the XBox 360 AND PS3, we'll be seeing games which are overall more impressive than that movie of Killzone.

    I can't wait. :)
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 12:16

  • Wash #62 7 years ago

    "And considering that MS boasted about 'reaching billions'"

    Talking of which, does anyone remember the DC adds for its online service... saying something along the lines of 6 billion players, or is my mind playing tricks.

  • Gurgeh #63 7 years ago

    Quote from old skool:

    ""In the demonstration, Toshiba used an operating system environment it had developed to increase the efficiency of Cell software development. One of the environment's key features is that application software developers can program software without considering which threads will be allotted to each of the different SPEs, because the environment allows the automatically scheduling software to SPEs."

    If Microsoft and Sony develop a compiler that does what Toshiba's does then development shouldn't be that much of a problem"

    The main issue here is that the Cell SPEs are not suited for all tasks - see Tim Sweeney's comments at Sony's E3 press conference - so developers will be unwilling to allow the compiler to decide which threads run on the SPEs. The XBox 360 has fewer options for multithreading but the ones it does have are general purpose.

    e.g. on collision detection:
    "Unfortunately, the SPEs have no branch prediction, so BSP tree traversal will tie up an SPE for quite a bit of time while not performing very well as each branch condition has to be evaluated before execution can continue. However it is possible to structure collision detection for execution on the SPEs, but it would require a different approach to the collision detection algorithms than what would be normally implemented on a PC or Xbox 360"

    ... in other words it can be done, but it isn't done like that at the moment.

    Cross-platform development may hinder the PS3.

  • #64 7 years ago

    i agree with that.

    multi platform releases may well be delayed on the PS3, or vice versa because of the PS3.

  • #65 7 years ago

    Burnout 3 on PS2 vs Half-Life 2 on a PC visually? No contest really. :S

    But that's besides the point. By co-incidence, about the time developers probably start getting to grips with multi-core development, PC's will have multi-core processors too, but better graphics cards!

    When you see the first real games on the PS3, and realise they are no better visually and lacking technically to those games we've already seen for the Xbox360, I hope you start to realise that SONY are mugging you off.

    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 12:20

  • JHuxley #66 7 years ago

    "Talking of which, does anyone remember the DC adds for its online service... saying something along the lines of 6 billion players, or is my mind playing tricks."

    They were talking about a potential 6 billion players. Still misleading though, and I remember a few complaints at the time.

    "Cross-platform development may hinder the PS3."

    We'll have to wait and see. Criteron's Renderware will probably make sure that games on both platforms look fiarly similar, though. And as was the case with the PS2, it's more than likely that developers will choose to make games for whichever has the largest installed userbase. If the market share ends up roughly 50/50, however, things may be different...

  • Tommyc352 #67 7 years ago

    As with everything surrounding these next gen consoles, until the products are released, im not falling into this claim and counter claim hype!

  • JHuxley #68 7 years ago

    "Burnout 3 on PS2 vs Half-Life 2 on a PC visually? No contest really. :S"

    Uhh...I said similar specs. If you can get HL2 to run on a 300Mhz PC with 32Mb RAM, knock yourself out (and yes I'm aware comparisons between PS2 and PC architecture are a little unfair...so sue me :p).

  • Blerk #69 7 years ago

    When you see the first real games on the PS3, and realise they are no better visually and lacking technically to those games we've already seen for the Xbox360, I hope you start to realise that SONY are mugging you off.

    You speak like you know this for a fact, Balor. Tell me, will you be coming back to admit the humble defeat you expect EG's writers to offer should this turn out to be utter bilge?

  • Grunk #70 7 years ago

    what do you mean macdonalds lies???!!!!!

    a quarter pounder definately weigh 0.25lbs, precooked, frozen and weighed on a set of scales on jupiter.

  • old_skool #71 7 years ago

    "Unfortunately, the SPEs have no branch prediction, so BSP tree traversal will tie up an SPE for quite a bit of time while not performing very well as each branch condition has to be evaluated before execution can continue. However it is possible to structure collision detection for execution on the SPEs, but it would require a different approach to the collision detection algorithms than what would be normally implemented on a PC or Xbox 360"

    Well , with an in-order processor such as cell development will obviously have to take a different approach that an Intel or PowerPC processor ( out of order ).There's no cache on the SPE's remember (at least its not called a cache) . But that might not be needed because you have very fast bandwidth between SPE and Main memory .

    /will talk about more later , got some work to do


  • #72 7 years ago

    "You speak like you know this for a fact, Balor. Tell me, will you be coming back to admit the humble defeat you expect EG's writers to offer should this turn out to be utter bilge?

    I'd love to be proven wrong Blerk, by all accounts people here are doing their best to level this sentiment already. But all I do is read what developers are saying about next-gen, read what tech-heads are saying about the next-gen and read the conclusions 'that reaching the high level of detail SONY set with their pre-rendered footage will be impossible'.

    Read the 'Burning down the house rants' from GDC this year.
    Read the Ars techinca doucuments.
    Read the Anandtech documents.
    Read anything printed from someone who isn't affiliated with Microsoft or SONY's machine.

    I'm not making this up!
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 12:37

  • drumbaby #73 7 years ago

    FY(E)I, Killzone 3 uses actual game engine, not CGI.

    http://www.jeux-france.com/news10872_plays tation-3-des-precisions.html

    It's on one of the scans in the article. About time the Kzone = CGI thing died a death tbh, because, although only running at a measily 5fps, it's an actual game engine running on early dev hardware.

    Thanks for listening. :)

  • Blerk #74 7 years ago

    But all I do is read what developers are saying about next-gen, read what tech-heads are saying about the next-gen and read the conclusions 'that reaching the high level of detail SONY set with their pre-rendered footage will be impossible'.

    Well, call me an old cynic but I'd quite like to hear the opinions of a programmer who is actually working on a PS3 game. All the cynical stuff so far seems to come from so-called 'experts' who don't actually write games or 'un-named' developers who for all we know don't even have a PS3 dev kit.

    All the 'proof' is still just conjecture. Why not just wait and see how the games turn out instead of firing on all cylinders when you actually know 'nothing at all'.

  • #75 7 years ago

    I'm not being funny, but it's bollocks mate.

    Do you really believe that in the 2 months Guerrilla Games had an alpha developers kit, they've manage to create a fully realised 3D rendering engine more capable of those of Sweeney, Carmack and Newell, which took years? And then create the content for it we saw choreographed at E3?

    If so, why the hell have we not heard of this 3D engine and why is no one rushing to licence it, on the hard to develop for PS3. I'll tell you why, it's because it doesn't exist!

    EDIT: In that case Blerk, read what Tim Sweeney has to say about the PS3.
    Edited by 3 at 27/06/05 @ 12:59

  • Wash #76 7 years ago

    If killzone 2 looks and plays like that video, then i'll eat my hat... scratch that i dont own a hat, Blerk will eat a mcdonalds.

    For example if thats in engine fair enough... but its 100% scripted. So add AI and Phyics and you'll see it running at 0000.1fps.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 12:48

  • Teeth #77 7 years ago

    All I've heard from people on PS3 is how remeniscent to PS2 it is in terms of being a fucking pain in the arse to work on.

  • Blerk #78 7 years ago

    Blerk will eat a mcdonalds.

    You'll have to kill me first!

  • Xensor #79 7 years ago

    "multi platform releases may well be delayed on the PS3, or visa versa because of the PS3"

    Are u sure about this arnie? IMHO i would have thought that after having 6-7 years of non-stop game development for the esoteric emotion engine, developers will be up to speed a lot quicker than before after learning there is life and design beyond the wintel way of doing things. If pc-focussed websites and pc developers moan that the cell processor is too different, frankly i'm not that fussed and i doubt Sony would be either. The same things were said about the PS2 and yet its now producing games that were nigh on impossible to believe just a few years ago.

  • deaner #80 7 years ago

    The PS3 will support C, C++ and Cg programming. That means every videogame developer in the world should be able to program for it with relative ease.

    C is the most common language going.

    And the visuals will rely on a variation of OpenGL libraries. Which is also a very common skill.

    There's absolutely no reason why developers shouldn't immediately get to grips with the development kits.

    That may explain why the demand is so high, despite the existing kits not being fully up to spec.

  • Teeth #81 7 years ago

    deaner:

    "C is the most common language going." - IMO that is bull :) C++ is the most commonly used language for video game development as far as I know.

    "There's absolutely no reason why developers shouldn't immediately get to grips with the development kits" - unless they're a massive pain in the arse to get going because Sony supply you with a bunch of Linux commandline crap and terrible documentation like they did with the PS2?

  • deaner #82 7 years ago

    Teeth:

    When I said C, I meant each variation of C. Including C++.

    Developers were given such basic boxes for the PS2 because it required assembly-level programming. Sony have gone to great lengths to make thigns easier this time.

  • JHuxley #83 7 years ago

    Teeth: and remember, Sony were the first to really help speed up the development process with libraries back on the original Playstation. In that regard they messed up with the PS2, and it surprised a lot of people. I doubt they'd make the same mistake twice.

  • deaner #84 7 years ago

    The upshot of making it so difficult for developers to program for the PS2, is that they learned a lesson the hard way and now plan to go to extremes to avoid the same thing happening again.

    Mark DeLoura, SCE Developer Relations - states that:

    "Cell graphics will rely on a variation of the standard OpenGL library already widely used for PC games. Sony and software consortium the Khronos Group are developing Open GL/ES, a dialect of OpenGL optimized for interactive content"

    http://www.richterscale.org/ index.php/weblog_articles/sony_ps3_to_go_with_standards/

  • Teeth #85 7 years ago

    I hope y'all are right. :)

  • drumbaby #86 7 years ago

    "For example if thats in engine fair enough... but its 100% scripted. So add AI and Phyics and you'll see it running at 0000.1fps."

    Remember, that demo was put together in a remarkably short amount of time. But if having the game looking like that is Guerilla's main priority, you'd probably see alot of that level of event detail taken out in actual gameplay...those incidental background details...to make way for your standard fps fare. Then re-introduce the lavish scripting for the cut scenes. It's a representation of the graphical prowess of the engine, sure, but probably not a realistic representation of what to expect moment by moment...And not on ANY system, I'd have thought.

    Without the background details to differentiate it from the pack, the game is certainly no better looking than anything running the Unreal 3 engine. Probably less polished, tbh. I certainly thought everything looked a lot more lush in the PS3 Unreal demo than in the Kzone 3 presentation.

    Also bear in mind that it takes a year or two at least to craft a finished game from scratch. To not only implement all the content, but to iron out the crappy code in the game engine. If they spend the required time on the actual finished dev kits, and tailor the content to more realistic gameplay levels, then who's to say how smoothly this game will run when it ships?

    One thing's for sure, noone with even an ounce of professional pride releases a game that runs at 6.25fps @ best case scenario. :)

  • Tweakmonkey #87 7 years ago

    Balor said: "read what Tim Sweeney has to say about the PS3"

    ok then - here's a quote for you:

    Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for"

  • BartonFink #88 7 years ago

    The PS3 will support C, C++ and Cg programming. That means every videogame developer in the world should be able to program for it with relative ease.

    C is the most common language going.
    Nope C++ is the most common language going. But if you think that is enough to make the PS3 easy to develop for then you really have no idea about programing.


    And the visuals will rely on a variation of OpenGL libraries. Which is also a very common skill.
    Probably, but the implementation of that API will be very important and will have to be custom built to work with the PS3 architecture.

    There's absolutely no reason why developers shouldn't immediately get to grips with the development kits. Based on what? If the underlying OS is a mare to work with and the APIs are all over the shop that would make it very difficult to work with.

    As for the Killzone debate raging here it's all been said before.

  • deaner #89 7 years ago

    BartonFink:

    If you'd care to read on - I said Teeth "When I said C, I meant each variation of C. Including C++."

    And yes, compared to the level of programming required to develop for PS2, it makes things very easy indeed!

    As for the API's - read on again - http://www.richterscale.org/ index.php/weblog_articles/sony_ps3_to_go_with_standards/

    EDIT: Link Fix
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 14:39

  • deaner #90 7 years ago

    But to back up Tweakmonkey...


    here's a quote for you:

    Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for"

  • Bill Gates is Evil #91 7 years ago

    i'm quite sure that even if there was hardware capable of producing an actual game that matches that sort of footage, it would take such an incredibly huge development budget that every gamer in the world would probably have to buy 30 copies of the game to help the developer recoup the costs of producing the game.

    it simply isn't going to happen. killzone will not be released and have every animation be unique to every single moment. the game will not play out in perfect cinematic grace.

    this is self-evident. if you believe otherwise, your judgement is poor and you're terribly out of sync with reality. I see people want proof that it's fake. the proof is in the video, coupled with rational human judgement.

  • #92 7 years ago

    I dont know why all you muppets bother giving your 2-a-penny speculations. Every single time theres an article like this one all of you sad losers get red in the face and start typing out the same rehashed arguements over and over and over ect.....

    GET A LIFE ! ps. ruttyboy is a thong wearing panzy and most of you twats just kiss his arse . sad.

  • #93 7 years ago

    drumbaby, you cannot possibly believe that the killzone demo was the realtime game engine.

    no one is that gullible, i conclude you are merely baiting us.

  • Jimmymd2 #94 7 years ago

    Well there's no battery, right?

    So - chances are that they won't cap the PS3 like they did with the PSP...

    Could you just imagine...

    "Well the final chip is going to run at 3.2GHz but it's capped at 2.2GHz to save on electricity...or some of the SPU's have been disabled until developers need to add physics for the blood and guts too - and not just the head you've blown off that poor defenseless little duck"

  • Gurgeh #95 7 years ago

    Regarding poor old Tim Sweeney:

    "According to Tim, a lot of things aren’t appropriate for SPE acceleration in UE3, mainly high-level game logic, artificial intelligence and scripting. But he adds that “Fortunately these comprise a small percentage of total CPU time on a traditional single-threaded architecture, so dedicating the CPU to those tasks is appropriate, while the SPE's and GPU do their thing."

    "So what does Tim Sweeney see the SPEs being used for in UE3? "With UE3, our focus on SPE acceleration is on physics, animation updates, particle systems, sound; a few other areas are possible but require more experimentation."

    "Tim’s view on the PPE/SPE split in Cell is far more balanced than most we’ve encountered. There are many who see the SPEs as utterly useless for executing anything (we’ll get to why in a moment), while there are others who have been talking about doing far too much on SPEs where the general purpose PPE would do much better. "

    and

    "The bottom line is that Sony would not foolishly spend over 75% of their CPU die budget on SPEs to use them for nothing more than fancy DSPs. Architecting a game engine around Cell and optimizing for SPE acceleration will take more effort than developing for the Xbox 360 or PC, but it can be done. The question then becomes, will developers do it? "

    All from that Anandtech article.

  • the_angry_monkey #96 7 years ago

    And my penis is normally 75% bigger than that baby - really!

    Honestly - who cares....we can all guess that the hardware will change before release tho imo it will become LESS powerful to accommodate a better release price

  • Xerx3s #97 7 years ago

    "I thought the 360 was running at 33%?

    And wasn't the Unreal Engine demo on the PS3 'playable'?" - Yeh, but, er, but, yeh, so, you see? :p Nah, your right blerk, but i was only making a point, from a fanboy perspective. And the ps3 demo, well, its also playable on every other platform and the ps3 version is just as good looking as on every other platform. Anddd, it was just a engine demo, where as the xb2 had a u3 game where you where playing the game.

    But as always, your right.

    As for JHuxley, well, it was a $ony rep who after all admitted that about 90% was prerenderd after the e3, or have you forgotten that?

    In the end i would have to say that Gurgeh speaks the word of truth though. They are all power machines and the one has certain advantages, but so does the other. Also, i admit, everything i said is purely speculation based upon what i read and what my study tells me about hardware. In other words, untill i have bought both consoles, my opinion/word is as good/bad as the next hopefull fool. There is one thing though, id recon that neither the xb2 nor the ps3 will be the big hits for the next generation. Obviously, the A2600 will pawn all next gens with the killer app. Duke Nukem Forever (http://www .3drealms.com/duke4/dnf2600.html). And yes, i know its old.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 16:22

  • Nause #98 7 years ago

    For godsake will they stop making claims, that cannot be proven.

  • JHuxley #99 7 years ago

    "it was a $ony rep who after all admitted that about 90% was prerenderd after the e3, or have you forgotten that?"

    I did not know that. Link please!

  • old_skool #100 7 years ago

    Tim Sweeney is right in every respect but you have to look at it in a certain context.He's right when he's says high-level game logic, artificial intelligence and scripting aren't suited to the SPE's but in the context of writing the algorithms based the traditional PC development . It might not be efficient . So you'll have to write algorithms to suit the PS3 architecture . Why do Intel , AMD and POWERPC employ cache on their chips ? Simply , because CPU and memory access speeds are not the same . The CPU has to wait for the memory . Adding cache overcomes the delay by processing other code while your first code is being processed in memory.
    With the PS3 though your system memory runs at the same speed @3.2GHZ as your SPE's.

    It's pure speed will compensate for lack of cache . Also note that you have no cache misses ( which the multicore xbox360 and PC's will suffer from ).

  • Tweakmonkey #101 7 years ago

    They are all power machines and the one has certain advantages, but so does the other
    In other words, untill i have bought both consoles, my opinion/word is as good/bad as the next hopefull fool

    Xerc3s - you must have fallen and hit your head, but actually you are right! ;-)

    /hugs Xerc3s

  • Kafeen #102 7 years ago

    "Microsoft are the only realists in this generation pre launch hype"

    Didn't J.Allard say they were going to sell a Billion XBox360's? You call that realism?

  • #103 7 years ago

    What you are highlighting there Arbiter, is while the PS2 had twin vector units to help out if used correctly. In the consoles 4/5 year shelf hardly anyone actually used them or wanted to use them, much like Anandtech speculates will happen again on the Cell.

    Edit: "Didn't J.Allard say they were going to sell a Billion XBox360's? You call that realism?"

    No he didn't.
    Edited by 2 at 27/06/05 @ 17:29

  • Tweakmonkey #104 7 years ago

    In the consoles 4/5 year shelf hardly anyone actually used them or wanted to use them

    Why?

  • #105 7 years ago

    Basically because it not easy to do and it's a lot of work. Those two vector units have very little memory for storing data and code, so developers have to work at a low-level. This requires that they're highly experienced and knowledgable in PS2 archetecture, which given SONY's lack of support (unless you are a first party dev) your not going to find many people who can boast them skills.

  • Nige #106 7 years ago

    So what we're essentially saying is that technical demos shown on a dev kit with a completely different CPU, completely different bus & completely different video chip will be different to the finished thing?

    How enlightening.

  • #107 7 years ago

    ... ?

  • old_skool #108 7 years ago

    Well done Arbiter , I couldn't have put it in such an ellegant and concise manner :-)

    /edit spelling
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 18:20

  • darkmistx #109 7 years ago

    Balor, have you ever programmed games for the playstation 2?

    edit: Hmm, your silence speaks volumes.
    Edited by 2 at 27/06/05 @ 18:58

  • BartonFink #110 7 years ago

    T'is all getting very Emotion Engine

  • BartonFink #111 7 years ago

    Next thing they will be saying is PS3 will be capable of sending a probe to Uranus ;)
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 18:28

  • Grom #112 7 years ago

    drumbaby you're wrong - I can give you phone numbers of the people who animated and rendered the FULLY CGI Killzone 3 demo. The amazing 'a Sony PR person said it so it must be true' journalists at PSM magazine are simply wrong. There is no game logic whatsoever in that video - even calling it 'scripted' is giving it too much credit.

  • BartonFink #113 7 years ago

    and it will, like the last one, in all likelyhood be cack anyway

  • #114 7 years ago

    Anyone with £100 can have a go at programming games for the PS2. So not only is your question pointless, darkmistx, it's still irrelevant to that fact that the professional developers themselves have said they won't be able to reach the high level of detail set by SONY with their pre-rendered E3 movies, and the tech heads have taken the time to explain why.

    The fact that I echo what these people say, because people won't read it themsleves, doesn't make it any less true. If you choose to digress from the subject rather than accept that the possibility that SONY are taking you for a mug, then that is your own foolishness.

    Have you ever programmed for the PS2, so much so that you can dispute what the professionals say? Because I'd love to hear your opposing arguments.

  • bumgut #115 7 years ago

    I've not read the comments so this point may have been made already.

    "and the graphics part used for the demos wasn't the final RSX chip, but rather a different NVIDIA GPU which may not have been optimised for the PS3's high-speed RAMBUS memory interface."



    The telling word here is "MAY". WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN "MAY" Eurogamer?? Either this has been confirmed to be optimised or it hasn't been. There is no "MAY". Who is feeding the bullshit? You or Sony??



  • Teeth #116 7 years ago

    Wow, I thought that last post by Arbiter would have closed the issue pretty efficiently, seems not.

    /shrugs

  • Gareth.de #117 7 years ago

    Arbiter, there is no point banging on about how many calculations the Cell will be able to churn out if programmed well. It's all theoretical and nothing else - hardware *never* performs as well as the theory, and that's never more true than with relatively complicated hardware.

    Since day one, developers have been too lazy/unable to take full advantage of the hardware presented to them - the Saturn had 3 32-bit Risc processors for graphics, and in most games only one was used. This explains that the same console that seemed maxed out by utter SHITE like Doom and Alien was also running stuff like Sega Rally, VF2, Quake and Duke Nukem.

    Then you have the PS2 with it's EE and VU units, which were largely redundant outside of Sony's primary developer houses.

    It's only logical to assume that the Cell will be no different.

    Not every developer out there is going to invest the large amounts of time and money on training their staff on how to get a little extra detail or frames out of the hardware, when your EA-shite will sell in bucketloads without it.
    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 20:22

  • #118 7 years ago

    "Why should I have to prove anything. You were talking like you had 1st knowledge of programming on the ps2, but since you clearly haven't, you're just speculating like everyone else."

    This is why you have to prove something, because these people really do have first hand experience. I told you I'm not making this shit up!

    Tecmo's Keisuke Kikuchi pointing out that while the PS3 has a "very attractive high machine spec" that it might be "difficult to design a system that can balance out the use of its power."

    While popular opinion puts PS3's graphical capabilities ahead of its competitors, Enix's Akitoshi Kawatsu doesn't see much difference. "I don't think that their graphic capabilities are too far apart from each other" he remarked, before going on to say that, as a developer, he was "most concerned about how much memory they're equipped with - the more, the better."

    Source

    Although Hino's impressed by the PS3's hardware capabilities, describing it as "a console of the future", he's worried that developers will find it tough to match up to the high standard of graphics on show at E3. Hmm.

    Source

    GS: How has it been programming for the Cell processor? Have you tapped into the extra processing cores yet?

    MR: We haven't really delved into the Cell all that deeply yet. All we've done is mostly take advantage of just the normal PowerPC core and the RSX graphics, so we really look forward to getting home and tackling all kinds of cool stuff on the Cell.

    Source

    So, as you know, graphics and physics grind on large homogenous floating point data structures in a very straight-line structured way. Then we have AI and gameplay code. Lots of exceptions, tunable parameters, indirections and often messy. We hate this code, it’s a mess, but this is the code that makes the game DIFFERENT. Here is the terrifying realization about the next generation consoles: I’m about to break a ton of NDAs here, oh well, haha, I never signed them anyway.

    Gameplay code will get slower and harder to write on the next generation of consoles. Modern CPUs use out-of-order execution, which is there to make crappy code run fast. This was really good for the industry when it happened, although it annoyed many assembly language wizards in Sweden. Xenon and Cell are both in-order chips. What does this mean? It’s cheaper for them to do this. They can drop a lot of cores. One out-of-order core is about four times [did I catch that right? Alice] the size of an in-order core. What does this do to our code? It’s great for grinding on floating point, but for anything else it totally sucks. Rumours from people actually working on these chips – straight-line runs 1/3 to 1/10th the performance at the same clock speed. This sucks.

    Source

    According to Tim, a lot of things aren’t appropriate for SPE acceleration in UE3, mainly high-level game logic, artificial intelligence and scripting. But he adds that “Fortunately these comprise a small percentage of total CPU time on a traditional single-threaded architecture, so dedicating the CPU to those tasks is appropriate, while the SPE's and GPU do their thing."

    Tim’s view on the PPE/SPE split in Cell is far more balanced than most we’ve encountered. There are many who see the SPEs as utterly useless for executing anything (we’ll get to why in a moment), while there are others who have been talking about doing far too much on SPEs where the general purpose PPE would do much better.

    The bottom line is that Sony would not foolishly spend over 75% of their CPU die budget on SPEs to use them for nothing more than fancy DSPs. Architecting a game engine around Cell and optimizing for SPE acceleration will take more effort than developing for the Xbox 360 or PC, but it can be done. The question then becomes, will developers do it?

    Source



    "My question was in response to your statement that developers have used the 2 co-processors on the ps2, and gone for the single threaded approach. I'd disagree with you there.

    Read This for PS2 Development!


    Is the message clear enough yet?

    Edited by 1 at 27/06/05 @ 20:52

  • darkmistx #119 7 years ago

    Sorry, had to delete my post because the formatting was messed up for some reason. I'll take a look over your reply now.

  • Vin #120 7 years ago

    Oh MY GOD.

    Who really fucking cares?

  • JHuxley #121 7 years ago

    "Is the message clear enough yet?"

    Not really Balor. Most of those articles you linked appear to be relatively well-balanced in their opinion of next-generation hardware. You, on the other hand, appear to be claiming that Sony and Sony alone are 'taking you for a mug'. Quite why you feel the need to cite the *potential* difficulty of development for the PS3 as proof of your theories is beyond me.

    "Not every developer out there is going to invest the large amounts of time and money on training their staff on how to get a little extra detail or frames out of the hardware, when your EA-shite will sell in bucketloads without it."

    Hey, you can call EA a lot of things but graphically inept they are not. Many of the world's most talent videogame artists and programmers work night and day (literally) to achieve expected standards. And if the past generation is anything go by, EA will be amongst the first to really push the next-gen consoles. With FIFA 2008, which will almost certainly be rubbish.

  • #122 7 years ago

    sorry, EA are not graphically inept?

    ha ha, you guys really plumb trhe depths in your desperation to win a debate that is unwinnable.

    the PS3 is difficult to develop for, many developers have commented that they will not be able to achieve the graphical whoring of the kilzone movie. its just fact. as balor has proved.

    arbiter, you don't think the klillzone movie was done on the game engine do you?

  • IronGiant #123 7 years ago

    As a happy owner of all 3 current gen machines i couldn't give a flying fook, if the new machines give me the same amount of cracking games between them then i'll be more than happy.

    As for PS3 following the PS2 in being a bitch to work with there's an interesting article near the back of this months Edge magazine about how Sony have been quietly working on Collada, an equivalent to MS's XNA.

    "Broadly equivalent to Microsoft's much vaunted XNA program, Collada is a more ambitious plan to get all development tool companies to ensure their file formats are compatible. Overseen by a team based at Sony Computer Entertainment America, its goal is to encompass technologies ranging from programmable shaders through to standard features such as geometry, lighting, animation and skinning as well as realtime physics. Currently work is ongoing to get a Collada application programming interface released as part of the wider SDK. This will provide developers with a C++ interface and speed up its adoption by tool vendors.

    Rarely generating any news within the Playstation3 bandwagon, the irony is that as with the technology demos, for developers, Collada will be at least as important to Playstation3's early success as Cell or RSX. It's just another example that sometimes it's more important to look behind the headlines to find out what's really going on."

  • Genji #124 7 years ago

    "the PS3 is difficult to develop for, many developers have commented that they will not be able to achieve the graphical whoring of the kilzone movie."

    Pretty bold statement, considering that the hardware hasn't even been finialised yet. You can't know anything right now. There's no 'facts', only hyperbole. That goes for Microsoft AND Sony.

    Of course, expecting every game to look as pretty as the Killzone movie is expecting too much. Making graphics that good is requiring more and more time and money, regardless of the platform. Of course, the Killzone movie is probably CGI anyway, as you so helpfully pointed out, so developers won't have anything to comment about until they actually see some in-game footage.
    Edited by 1 at 28/06/05 @ 08:45

  • Blerk #125 7 years ago

    Important information that everyone NEEDS to read!

    ;-)

  • old_skool #126 7 years ago

    Brilliant !!! :-)

  • #127 7 years ago

    http://community.teamxbox.c om/xbox/1177/Next-Gen-Console-Wars-Revenge-of-Kutaragi/p1/

    an even better piece...

  • Genji #128 7 years ago

    Can't see it, arn

  • jawolf #129 7 years ago

    explain to me why arnie. Maybe I'm missing something?

    Blerks posted link was actually humourous, and a good analysis. The xbox360 one.. was basically a person who like xboxen wanting more of same(TM).

    Amazing: a console that has saturated its market isn't selling as well as a newer console! (join arnies two lines together for the "interesting" report from an xbox fan site) Hmmm, I wonder if the ease of modifying the console into a cheap HTPC (or playing back up games...) has anything to do with it?

  • Teeth #130 7 years ago

    "Can't see arn"

    Fixed!

  • Genji #131 7 years ago

    No, it isn't. Not that I'd be expecting anything balanced and/or witty from teamxbox.com.

  • Tweakmonkey #132 7 years ago

    Blerk - that link was pure class. My respect for GS has gone up since that.

  • deaddwarf #133 7 years ago

    "So you see, dear readers, the best part about being a fanboy is that you can never be proven wrong. As long as you ignore the rules of logic and sensibility, you will never have to worry about whether or not you made a good investment. That sure helps all the insecurity go away, doesn't it?"

    ^^

    go go arnie with henchmen! ;)

    thx for the link blerk. Made my day.

  • #134 7 years ago

    'The Killzone2 movie was in all probability a CG movie built using in-game assets (models etc) as a guide towards the goal look+feel. '

    so the comment from sony stating that it's done using the game engine would be...?

  • IronGiant #135 7 years ago

    Is it half term or something, arnie's posting in this thread a helluva lot.

  • old_skool #136 7 years ago

    maybe arnie's a bot ? he's forever here whatever time of day/night

  • Tweakmonkey #137 7 years ago

    He's shows too much intelligence to be a bot. He could however be a clone...

  • Grom #138 7 years ago

    Hey rdexter! I heard PSM magazine say that the PS3 is based on alien technology from the invisible second moon of earth which was brought to Japan by space lizards, and that the killzone2 trailer was filmed live on an industrial estate near milton keynes!

    YOU ARE VERY DUMB.

  • penhalion #139 7 years ago

    Arrived a little late to this thread but....

    @Arbiter

    For the record IBM have already stated that getting more than 2 cells to work together will be extremely challenging...doesn't the PS3 have 3 of them? You talk a lot of techno babble with not much in the way of facts in it *sigh*

  • Blerk #140 7 years ago

    The PS3 has one Cell, not three. Seems like you need to check your own facts.
    Edited by 1 at 29/06/05 @ 08:18

  • penhalion #141 7 years ago

    @Blerk

    Do you need me to explain sarcasm to you?