More on Gran Turismo HD

By Tom Bramwell Published 26 September, 2006

Pricing, Ferraris, damage, etc.

Following last week's contentious Gran Turismo HD announcement, Sony America and series creator Kazunori Yamauchi have shed more light on Polyphony Digital and Sony's plans for the racer's first PlayStation 3 outing.

Due out this December in Japan, Gran Turismo HD consists of two game modes: Premium and Classic. The offline Premium mode will feature high-fidelity content - the sort you'd expect in a PS3 GT game - and will start with 30 cars and two tracks. Classic is a head-to-head online game, with no content at launch - the idea being to download the cars and tracks you want from the PS3's online shop. The team is aiming to introduce 770 cars, 51 tracks and 4,500 "items" on an ongoing basis for Classic, with 30 extra cars and one more track available to download at launch for Premium, and more to follow. Classic cars will cost 50-100 yen each (22 to 45 pence), while tracks will go for 200-500 yen (90p to £2.25). Phew.

A subsequent press release from Sony America during the Tokyo Game Show added that Classic's online mode will allow you to "manage race regulations, online competition and communities, and organise race events", while TGS itself revealed the inclusion of Ferraris in GT HD, and the introduction of "Normal" and "Professional" driving model options.

So anyway, speaking to members of the Japanese press, Yamauchi explained some of that. According to Japan's Impress Watch, translated by IGN, he said that Sony hopes to make GT HD available for a very low price - as little as the cost of the game disk and instruction manual - as most revenues will be made through the digital distribution model. It'll be interesting to see whether other heavily digi-dist-based games, like SingStar, adopt a similar approach.

He said that "Professional" mode would offer a more realistic driving experience, although we'll presumably have to wait for a bit to gauge exactly how, while he also added that the 770 car/51 track/etc. figure is a "target" rather than a specific number. He also said that he hopes to make content downloaded for GT HD available for use in Gran Turismo 5, which is due out exclusively on PS3 in 2008.

GT HD will also see the much-desired introduction of car damage, Yamauchi said, although not immediately. Given the online game element, Yamauchi says he prefers to start small and then build the game up as the player-base matures, and so that will see damage-modelling introduced in 2007, while the first half of 2007 will also see more advanced opposition AI routines made available. Both updates will be downloadable, although there's no word on whether you'll have to pay for them.

Another reason we're having to wait a bit longer for all of this is simply how complicated the development process is, he said. "Creating a car for GT4 took approximately one month. This time, it takes half a year. The amount of data for each car is approximately 20 times that of GT4." Ouch.

Not content with all that, Yamauchi also noted that Polyphony Digital is "of course" considering connectivity between PS3 Gran Turismo (he wasn't specific) and Gran Turismo Mobile on PlayStation Portable, which was recently put on hold while work was completed on PS3, although he said he couldn't comment on it.

One thing he did have time to do though was mention that "Gran Turismo for Boys" is still in development for PS2, and not - as IGN noted - just something he'd drunkenly made up at the GT4 launch party.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (112) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Tejstar #1 5 years ago

    Damage! \o/

  • smelly #2 5 years ago

    Get.. To.. Fuck...

  • DanMW #3 5 years ago

    This is outrageous, the game will cost £50 and if you want all the downloadable content you will be easily forking out £75, not good, I played the first 3 GTs and don't intend to play anymore. Car damage was something gamers were asking for more than 8 years so it was about time.

  • Wash #4 5 years ago

    The PS3 really is next gen, i mean CAR DAMAGE... that my friends cant be done on any other console :\

    I suspect the damage will be so well implemented it will demonstrate why such a next gen feature couldnt be implemented until the Ps3 arrived.

    Glorious days my gaming compadres.

  • lambtron #5 5 years ago

    Gargghh I do not understand why some people hold Polyphony in such high regards.

  • skillian #6 5 years ago

    @DanMW

    ...According to Japan's Impress Watch, translated by IGN, he said that Sony hopes to make GT HD available for a very low price - as little as the cost of the game disk and instruction manual...

  • sharpfish #7 5 years ago

    I easily jump on the "hate sony" bandwagon these days, but if what I read was correct the game won't cost the normal (expensive) price?

    If it is say £5 and the Cars are 50p and tracks £3 then I can actually see where they are trying to go with this.

    I am a fanatic of a certain few types of Jap motor but not all (of course). If GT is going to keep catering to every fan of every car old and new then you could end up with 800+ cars. How many of those do you want to actually race with?

    I would buy my favourite ten jap motors plus the special exotica and as many tracks as needed (10 tracks = £30 so still cheaper than a normal game), and say 20 cars = £10. Total £45 for the customised game with only the content I want.

    It's just another (non "hating on sony";) way of looking at things, for once. ;)

    Of course I don't really care as I won't be buying a ps3 until it is anywhere near a realistic price and only then if there are enough decent games. My 360 + Forza2 and PGR4 (to come) is more than enough for the next year or so for the petrol head in me :)


    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 11:53

  • lambtron #8 5 years ago

    "more advanced opposition AI routines made available"

    They will now mirror->signal->manoeuvre before attempting to pull out of the pit lane.

  • Shrike #9 5 years ago

    So next gen means "watch the game get developed, RIGHT THERE IN YOUR LIVING ROOM!"? Oh yeah, and you pay three times as much*.

    If it takes half a year to process a car, are we looking at 200+ years (based on how many they can do at once) for the full 770? That IS next-gen! It's not even in the next generation of people!


    * Fact?

  • gamingdave #10 5 years ago

    Im wondering how this works fr finding races though. If you dont "own" a track can you join a race hosted on it? Id assume not. That would meen id have to own the same courses as my mates to play against them. Same question about the cars? Do you all need to have downloaded (and paid for) the same cars?

    Given their track record for (greatly) missing deadlines, I certainly wouldnt get this on the promise of damage coming in 2007, infact knowing PD theyll probably just can it saying there focusing on GT Mobile for the PSP2.

    It sound to me like they want to release it as soon as they can, and will finish building it once people buy it.

  • kangarootoo #11 5 years ago

    Surely the whole point of shopping for individual items is that you only buy what you want to buy. Making comparisons to what you you would have to pay to buy every car and track if bloody ludicrous, 'cos no-one is going to actually do that.

    Singstar makes a good comparison. Buying 30 songs will probably cost you more than a standard disc, but those 30 tracks will be exactly the ones you want, so you get your value for money that way.

    All of the killers, none of the fillers I believe the saying goes. In that context it makes perfect sense (except for those on a mission to find bad news of course).

  • Stormflood #12 5 years ago

    DanMW - you've clearly made a prepared statement of disgust without reading the article.

    Sony hopes to make GT HD available for a very low price - as little as the cost of the game disk and instruction manual

  • dynarama #13 5 years ago

    This is getting pretty hilarious now. Toca 2 did superb AI and damage in 1998.

    1998. On a Playstation. One.

  • Machiavel #14 5 years ago

    Downloading AI? Madness. No wait.

    /fancies a challenge, downloads boy racers AI

    /fancies a stroll, downloads Sunday drivers AI

  • MikeP #15 5 years ago

    Someone on the Forza 2 thread joked that Microsoft would have you paying for petrol next. Looks like it'll be a race between MS and Sony to see who gets there first.

    Seriously, my concerns would be around the track and model sharing - if you're playing opponents and have no models in common, that's a lot of data to shunt around at the start of the race. Wouldn't that make it slow to start up?

  • lambtron #16 5 years ago

    @Kanga

    I think the point about online stuff depending on who has bought what is a valid one. You only have to look at PC games to see this can be a nightmare.

  • coojam #17 5 years ago

    Something nobody seems to have noticed...what about people who aren't going to go online with their PS3s? Sure, in Japan it might be ok, but over here, the people who are the most dedicated to the PlayStation brand haven't even touched Sony online.

  • Hog-lumps #18 5 years ago

    @ kanga

    All of the killers, none of the fillers I believe the saying goes.

    While I completely agree with you,

    I do however think that sometimes it is good to have a few 'fillers' that you wouldn't normally choose in a game. Sometimes these tracks (e.g cheesy songs in singstar), actually surprise you by turning out to be the ones you enjoy the most, even though they go against your preconcieved taste!

    I.e, there may be less chance for people to experience new stuff if they simply select tracks/songs they know well and play it safe for money reasons.

    Sorry, not sure if I'm making any sense?! :/
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 12:11

  • thinktank #19 5 years ago

    Has any body considered the fact that quite alot of people who will potentialy buy this game may not be online?

    What happens to them are the stuck with the premium pack?

    if the PS3 will malny be bought buy people who previously owned a PS2, then there is a distinct possiblity that those people are still not interested or involved with the online scene in the same way the majority of xbox owers currently are.

  • coojam #20 5 years ago


    /fancies a challenge, downloads boy racers AI

    /fancies a stroll, downloads Sunday drivers AI

    Actually, I find Sunday drivers VERY challenging.

  • Les #21 5 years ago

    "then there is a distinct possiblity that those people are still not interested or involved with the online scene in the same way the majority of xbox owers currently are."

    I think Sony is trying to change that. And this is one of their means.

  • Hench #22 5 years ago

    Actually, I find Sunday drivers VERY challenging.

    LOL

  • McGeeza #23 5 years ago

    @ Mike P

    I guess that all of the content would come on the disc and you pay to unlock it. Otherwise you've made a very good point...

  • Vin #24 5 years ago

    Man, this should die on its arse before the grid.

  • Steroyd #25 5 years ago

    Something nobody seems to have noticed...what about people who aren't going to go online with their PS3s? Sure, in Japan it might be ok, but over here, the people who are the most dedicated to the PlayStation brand haven't even touched Sony online.

    GTHD classic is practically GT4 HD online.

    Because GTHD classic is online only you're not going to play with that mode unless you're hooked to the internet anyway meaning purchasing cars without the intent of playing online is a waste of money.

    Although you're argument stands with GTHD premium which is GT5 prologue which will start with 2 tracks and 30 cars and they'll add damage, Ai and more cars later.

    I think Polyphony are doing this so they actually launch a Gran Turismo earlier than normal when there's something like a glitch on turn 34 on Nurbengurg the game gets delayed by an extra 6 months.

    Hopefully their damage actual affects the inside of a car, if car crashes into a corner at 100MPH head on collision i don't expect that car to finish the race.
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 12:28

  • brainbird #26 5 years ago

    While I'm torn about the "download your own content"-type of game (can be good, even though I'm very reserved), I admit that I do not believe a single word of whatever Yamauchi/Sony are talking about. They simply lied too often.

    EDIT: Replace "lied too often" with "promised too much" if you're touchy.
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 12:30

  • RodHull #27 5 years ago

    If the stripped down version of the game is going to cost the price of the BRD and manual, isn't this in itself going to be a bit pricey? At the mo plank discs cost a fortune compared to blank DVDs. It's about £15 for a blank BRD. I know they'll get it cheaper wholesale and all, but it'll still be more than a coupe of quids. Unless Polyphony stick it on a standard DVD thus proving that BRD is fairly unnecessary after all. YAY!

  • Steroyd #28 5 years ago

    Blu-ray is being used for security reasons so even if a game is 2Gb it'll use Blu-ray.

    That said i wouldn't use the Retail price of blank discs to estimate how much it would cost for Sony to make a Blu-ray disc.

  • rhinoxious #29 5 years ago

    I'm sure I heard that only about half the 360's sold so far had used Live. And these are early adopters we're talking about.

    Just how many of the PS3's installed user base will actually have their console networked up and ready to buy downloadable content?

  • djchump #30 5 years ago

    GT HD will also see the much-desired introduction of car damage, Yamauchi said, although not immediately. Given the online game element, Yamauchi says he prefers to start small and then build the game up as the player-base matures, and so that will see damage-modelling introduced in 2007
    the first half of 2007 will also see more advanced opposition AI routines made available. Both updates will be downloadable, although there's no word on whether you'll have to pay for them.

    Hehe - now if that ain't the epitome of "we ain't finished the game, but ship it anyway. We'll finish it later then patch it or charge the punters for expansions" :-D

  • alpha-0ne #31 5 years ago

    "I would buy my favourite ten jap motors plus the special exotica and as many tracks as needed (10 tracks = £30 so still cheaper than a normal game), and say 20 cars = £10. Total £45 for the customised game with only the content I want. "

    So how is that better than at GT4HD with 600 cars and 60 odd tracks for the same price??

    Or having say forza 2 with 300 cars and 50 tracks for £40??

    Variety is the spice of life..

    In fact to buy as much content as forza 2 would cost..

    Tracks (£1.50 average for a track * 50) = £75
    Cars (30p average * 300) = £90

    TOTAL £165 - WTF!!! Well at least online play if free..

    I wonder how much the advance Ai will cost?? £10, £20
    What about the damage models?? £10

    How can anyone in a sane sense of mind accept this ???
    Edited by 3 at 26/09/06 @ 12:45

  • Artemis_Matsas #32 5 years ago

    Well, i like the idea of customized content, but being an old fart, i am a little bit suspicious. Let's say that i bought an extra 100 cars and 5-6 new tracks. If for some reason i just have to format my PS3's hard drive, then what?

    I know that there have to be some safeguards to prevent loss of content, but if you ask me, i still prefer to have my content on a nice solid DVD stacked on my cupboard...

    /goes back to his cave

  • moggsy #33 5 years ago

    Half a year for one car!

    I've heard of actual cars being designed from scratch in less time than that...

  • ccfb #34 5 years ago

    Wait ... without know exactly how this will work, and speculating wildly before any more details come to light ...

    You buy a car online and take it into a race with another online player who might have bought a different car that you don't own. So to see each others cars the players will have to DL the opposing player's car model and spec and so on to race? Doesn't that mean that you have essentially "bought" the car model to race against, even though you're not driving it?

    Or are they suggesting that you can only race on tracks and with cars that every player in the "room" posesses?

    officially confused.

    EDIT : or what gamingdave said.
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 12:45

  • Planet #35 5 years ago

    Rodhull: no, it's not Ken Kutaragi shuffling Blu-ray-recordables after hours on a pc to supply you with PlayStation games. Game discs are pressed (just like music CDs and movie DVDs) and the prices of that don't have ANYTHING to do with those of writable media.

    Also, one game that doesn't use the extra space of Blu-ray proves it is useless? I think rather the other way around, some games using it do prove it is usefull after all!

  • markypants #36 5 years ago

    WOW this is GREAT!........






    If you have broadband.
    If not.
    You is f***ed.

  • Mr_Whacker #37 5 years ago

    Try not to analyse these tidbits of info. Thats why you are confused. Wait and see what its like. If DL content is going to work then its in a game like GT.

    I worry about the upgrading. You used to spend game money on that new racing gearbox, now it might be real cash.

  • Nobuo #38 5 years ago

    I think this is a great idea in principle, but it sounds a little expensive. Even if the disc itself is dirt cheap, you won't be able to download a full games worth of content at those prices.

    If you split your £50 into £25 for tracks and £25 for cars, you get an average of around 16 tracks and 80+ cars (based on some quick maths admitedly). This isn't great VFM compared to past GT games, and it's based on the disc itself being FREE, when I'm guessing at least £10.

    Essentially this system just seems implemented in a way to get more money for less content. Otherwise I see no reason why they wouldn't distribute it normally. Other than to release the game quickly. Which is a terrible reason.

  • Darren #39 5 years ago

    What a really crap idea for a game...

    You're basically getting a useless single player game that has no real purpose; you buy the cars and tracks online so there's no progression and little point to playing the game beyond trying out different cars and tracks. Then there's the equally lacklustre online mode, which because of the impracticalities of having a system where everyone is downloading different cars to everyone else, means that it's head-to-head only and cannot cater for multi-car races... you know like what was commonplace on the last-gen Xbox. /rolls eyes

    I'll wait for the proper Gran Turismo 5, thank you, which had better have plenty of content and a multiplayer online mode on the damn disc!

  • brainbird #40 5 years ago

    Well, it's quite clear what the purpose of this GT edition is: "PS3, ooohhh, shiny!!!"

  • toy_brain #41 5 years ago

    Guh, I'm not really sure what to think of this announcement.
    I'm not a big fan of the microtransaction-thing thats starting to gain momentum now, and its obviously a way to jack up the price of games but in a way thats less obvious than handing over an extra note at the cash register.

    Then again, GTHD is something that everyone should be able to take or leave at their own discression. Its not entirely new, but an upgrade of a PS2 game. So there should be none of this "OMFG I simply must have it!" excitement surrounding it, therefore its a perfect testbed for this kind of distribution model.
    If you like the idea, sure go ahead, but if you dont, just grab a copy of the last GT game out of the bargin bin and play that instead.

    So, decent way of judging the market then........

  • Kengro #42 5 years ago

    For the love of fu**...
    Car damage can easely be done on 360, this is fixed point calculations. Those are 360's strongest point. In fact it's much stronger on fixed point than ps3 is.
    The "pay for petrol" thing was a joke, there's not a word from MS about that. It's only to find on Eurogamer too...
    Don't bite over every little word of hype and bullshit that is online

  • trevd72 #43 5 years ago

    The over riding principle behind this is to stop them losing money to the secondhand market and to pirates. It will be interesting to see the price of the "Boot Disc". I reckon it will be about £30. So what next magazines reviewing content more than the actual full games.

  • Steroyd #44 5 years ago

    You're basically getting a useless single player game that has no real purpose; you buy the cars and tracks online so there's no progression and little point to playing the game beyond trying out different cars and tracks.

    Gee you make it sound like it's a GT5 prologue.

    <a href=http://w ww.gamestats.com/objects/610/610097/>Polyphony would never do that.</a>

  • Darren #45 5 years ago

    Isn't that what it is though? It's filler stuff to keep the diehard fans quiet during the long two year wait for Gran Turismo 5. It doesn't even have a PROPER (as in more than two cars on the track) multiplayer player mode, it's the same old dull head-to-head one that all the earlier GT games had except this time it's ONLINE! (That was a wasted opportunity if ever there was one.)

    Wow! Let me sit down, the excitement's getting too much! LOL

    Surely if Polyphony spent less time on this kind of rubbish then, maybe, just maybe, Gran Turismo 5 could be finished sooner?

  • Steroyd #46 5 years ago

    If PD didn't deal with this rubbish maybe just maybe we would see Gran Turismo kids and GT mobile this turn of the century.

  • brainbird #47 5 years ago

    As justified it might be to make jokes about GTHD, it is not only two-player head-to-head.

  • kangarootoo #48 5 years ago

    @lambtron

    I don't know about the "who has what track" issue. I agree, if it wasn't managed properley it could be a proper mess. Got no answer for that, but I hope Polyphony do :)

    @Hog-lumps

    I get what you are saying, and I agree a bit of a random element can turn up some nice surprises. I see that as a bonus, but I don't think it breaks the whole model that Polyphomny are aiming for. Plus, I would hope that sufficient descriptions and community chit chat would draw players to tracks they hadn't previously considered (for example, its word of mouth that made the most popular CounterStrike maps the success they were).


    @alpha-0ne

    Oh ffs. You win the pointy hat for your excellent regurgetation of the "this is how much it will cost if you buy everything" example.


    Someone mentioned concern for those who won't use the online services. Well surely the classic pack simply isn't for them. As I see it (unless I missed something) the two packs could be viewed as online and offline variants (roughly speaking).

    I mean you can hardly blame an online game for not catering for offline players. You may as well criticise GT for not catering for the snowboard fans among us for all the relevance it has.

    @markypants

    Same point really. A game cannot really be blamed for the lack of broadband amongst some gamers. If you have no decent internet access than buy a different game, simple as that. If you have a next gen console and you DON'T have broadband, well that is really something for the customer to sort surely (coverage allowing I realise) if they are to get the best out of their investment.

    @Artemis_Matsas

    "If for some reason i just have to format my PS3's hard drive, then what?"

    Online purchasing won't work like that. When you buy something you have bought the right to download it as many times as you want, but it will only work on your specific system/account/whatever (don't know the exact details of how it will be secured).

    Downloadable content has been around for ages. Just look at PC shareware or e-books. There will always be a way to cater for you losing your drive contents, so that shouldn't be a concern.

  • Hughes. #49 5 years ago

    "Sony hopes to make GT HD available for a very low price - as little as the cost of the game disk and instruction manual"

    Well, that makes it a good deal more sensible than my worst fears. 30 spangly GT5 cars of the quality of the Lotus Elise screenshot for the cost of a few buttons seems worthwhile having. Then just a few favourite cars and tracks should bring the whole thing in for under a tenner for me.

  • kangarootoo #50 5 years ago

    @disc

    "Can you ask them why they aren't just making Gran Turismo HD Classic available for free as a download?"

    I wouldn't be amazed to see that happening. Wipeout Pure on PSP is essentially using that model.

  • dk_rare #51 5 years ago

    They want us to pay like, heaps of pounds for a full game. They must be joking.

    Heres hoping Forza 2 doesn't go down the same path

  • alpha-0ne #52 5 years ago

    dk_rare it isnt, you will have 300 cars (ALL WITH FULL VISIBLE DAMAGE), 50 tracks, 12 player onine play

    there will be new cars and tarcks but in additionl to these

    I really cant understand why anyone is trying to justify this... how can getting less for your money be better? How could anyone just want less choice than what they have had before... wow its agood job online is free.. ;-)
    Edited by 2 at 26/09/06 @ 13:53

  • OnlyMe #53 5 years ago

    If the visible damage in the first Forza is anything to go by, I can live without that.

    And it's obvious this is meant as an appatizer. If you want to wait for two or three years to play a Gran Turismo game, then that's your decision. If you want a taste of things to come, well, that's your own decision too. Funny though, that many of those who complaint wouldn't buy a full GT game either, because they're either a) anti-Sony and won't buy a PS3 anyway or b) anti-GT.

    They don't force you to buy it, so why the hell complaint? So many ridiculous people here. If it's so difficult to not buy a game, then go see a psychologist.

    Oh the irony, first you (as in plural) bash Sony for not giving you the option to have Blu-Ray as it brings the price up, because why should you pay for something you don't want. Then you bash Polyphony to give you the chance to buy EXACTLY what you want and not pay for something you don't want. So which is it?
    Edited by 2 at 26/09/06 @ 14:04

  • kangarootoo #54 5 years ago

    @alpha-0ne

    It simply depends on what is more important to you, the number of tracks you can drive on, or that you like all of the tracks? Some of your value is coming from the fact that you can choose exactly what tracks and cars you pay for and don't have to pay for any of the ones you don't want. For some players, it won't be the right deal, for others it will be.

    Now I fully accept the price point they have chosen may be wrong, that is something that will be discovered with time, but the principle is sound enough. Its not a model that was created by Polyphony. Its pretty much the reverse of what is known as "buying in bulk" and as a sales model its been around longer than computers have.

  • Gnort #55 5 years ago

    I'm afraid I don't like the "pay-for-content" model at all. If I know every new thing is costing me, I'll probably end up only using a fraction of the cars I would have used if they were all included in the game to begin with. I'd rather pay more upfront if it means a richer game experience, even if the only reason the game experience would otherwise be poorer is because I'm a tight-fisted bastard.

    It's like buying a game for a home system vs paying to play it at an arcade (although you'd have to assume the arcade machine was in your living room). With the combined cost of a portion of the home system and the game you could pay for more games than you'd probably want to play at an arcade, but knowing that each game doesn't cost you any more, you are free to mess around and try new things on the console version.

    Apologies for the clunky comparison, which is no doubt showing my old age, but that's the way I see "pay-for-content" games. Give me a larger sunk cost anyday.

  • oerhoert #56 5 years ago

    Who the hell cares about the number of cars? I'd say give us ONE car, just make sure it's fast and shiny and fun to drive.

    Also, does this mean we don't have to work through the meaningless grind to get the fast cars this time? Maybe I'll have time to play GT this time, then... :)

  • TreeFrog #57 5 years ago

    A problem with the 'only buy what you want' model is surely that people don't neccessarily know what they want - If the game had 20 tracks then I'd try them all, and then just play the 5 I like. But if I have to buy each one individually, I may end up buying say 5 tracks at random, and not liking any of them.

    I'm not a big GT fan, but I always thought a large part of the appeal was that you could dabble with a huge variety of cars...

  • Dizzy #58 5 years ago

    What bout AI? Will tha be included this time?

  • Steroyd #59 5 years ago

    I'm not a big GT fan, but I always thought a large part of the appeal was that you could dabble with a huge variety of cars...

    That's your problem you're not a GT fan meaning you won't know which tracks you do or do not like which is why it's reccomended you play the previous iterations of GT first just so you don't go blindly buying stuff.

    I can understand complaining about the Microtransactions infrastructure but at the end of the day it's just a demo.

    a £300 demo if you're that dedicated to GT. o_O
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 14:55

  • dynarama #60 5 years ago

    What bout AI? Will tha be included this time?

    10p per IQ point
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 15:25

  • old_skool #61 5 years ago

    Uh , hang on a second , what's the difference between GTHD and any other MMORPG distribution model ? It's not like they are reinventing the wheel here .

  • ruttyboy #62 5 years ago

    Because you don't have to pay real money for every weapon/item you want to use?

  • Carlo #63 5 years ago

    DamnMW: "This is outrageous, the game will cost £50 and if you want all the downloadable content you will be easily forking out £75, not good, I played the first 3 GTs and don't intend to play anymore. Car damage was something gamers were asking for more than 8 years so it was about time."


    'Don't Fucking Buy It then!' - As My 360 owning friends keep telling me.

  • Xerx3s #64 5 years ago

    What do you pay for a PGR3 car?

  • old_skool #65 5 years ago

    @ruttyboy

    guess what , you're already paying for that content because you're paying full price for the game .

  • old_skool #66 5 years ago

    Anybody remember a game called Motor City Online ? I wonder how long it'll take for that concept to return...

  • ruttyboy #67 5 years ago

    Erm, yes you're right skool, however I answered your question. The two distribution models are completely different 0_o

  • Xerx3s #68 5 years ago

    Btw, why do ppl regard GT as something great? It doesn't do things that other racers didn't already do.

    And I just read it again, but am I correct in thinking that the online mode will have nothing? As in: You bought the game, now you will have to buy the tracks and cars to go online?

    If so, can I say: Huh?! 0_o

  • old_skool #69 5 years ago

    @ruttyboy

    hehe , yeah you did . Wasn't there some MMORPG games that were distributed freely and charged for x amount of content ?

  • captainrentboy #70 5 years ago

    ''What do you pay for a PGR3 car?''
    I'm not actually sure as I was perfectly happy with all the ones that came with the game originally :/

  • Steroyd #71 5 years ago

    You get GT HD premium with it as well as in GT5 demo with the later to be released Damage and Ai.

    But yeah that's practically the online aspect of it.

    @ruttyboy

    No they're not you have to pay for a subscription despite you shelling £30 on the game to play on it.

    If we use the XBL justification pricing method on average the total cost for GT is £428 spread over the next 2 years for the actual GT5 game to be launched (if we're lucky) is £428/730 = 59p per day

    Stop buying Pepsi everyday and you'll be fine.

  • king_skins #72 5 years ago

    Are the cars already going to be on the disc? I'm thinking this is not going to be the case...?

    But if all the cars are not already on the disc how are people who haven't downloaded the same cars going to race?

  • Stormflood #73 5 years ago

    Hey, you know what? The system for GT:HD will work out and be implemented to suit the gamers - if it doesn't work, it will change.

    I certainly don't like the idea of GT5 being a download-only service, but if GT:HD gives PS3 owners a little taste of what's to come, what's the problem?

  • ruttyboy #74 5 years ago

    Have slipped into a parallel universe again?

    MMORPG Model - Pay upfront for ALL usable content , then a monthly subscription fee to pay for use of the servers. Expansion packs requiring an additional upfront fee for extra content.

    GT HD Model - Pay minimal cost upfront for game engine ONLY, then pay small specific fees for specific user selected content and no monthly fees for server use.
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 16:20

  • ruttyboy #75 5 years ago

    I personally hate micro-transactions and can see it really ruining gaming for me before long (3-4 years for it to be an embedded business model) --- :(

    Perhaps if they lowered the inital cost of purchase, but they won't of course.
    Edited by 2 at 26/09/06 @ 16:41

  • Carlo #76 5 years ago

    @Wonga. And that sir, is how you errode the second-hand market:

    Disk = low cost (Say £20)
    download content for the above = low too (but tied to an individual identity).

    Individual 'trades in' the disk = Disk is 'worthless' (It's £20 NEW!).

    So too is his personal downloads of content because he no longer has the game.

  • doctor__no #77 5 years ago

    FERRARIs for Grand Turisimo!! Now I can see if my tricked out Evo really is faster then a F430

  • thinktank #78 5 years ago

    I feel this is a step (good or bad) that should be taken after an online infrastructure has been put in place and become established not before.

    Don't run before you can walk.

  • old_skool #79 5 years ago

    well , GTHD is clearly a testbed . It they offer the disk at a very low price it might become very succesfull . I too won't be suprised if they offer the game as a free download .

  • pac666 #80 5 years ago

    It might have zillion cars and a trillion tweeks, but will it be any fun? Rather have RR7.

  • The-Bodybuilder #81 5 years ago

    >"Seriously, my concerns would be around the track and model sharing - if you're playing opponents and have no models in common, that's a lot of data to shunt around at the start of the race. Wouldn't that make it slow to start up?"

    Aren't we talking about the same omnipotent, omniscience PS3?

  • The-Bodybuilder #82 5 years ago

    The real question is......


    How would anyone review this?

  • The-Bodybuilder #83 5 years ago

    >" If you want a taste of things to come, well, that's your own decision too. Funny though, that many of those who complaint wouldn't buy a full GT game either, because they're either a) anti-Sony and won't buy a PS3 anyway or b) anti-GT."

    No matter what, this is diverting sources, sources that can be used to crate GT5.

    The question is, which do you prefer? a £200 demo and GT5 3 years later? or no stupid demo and GT5 2 years later?

  • Xerx3s #84 5 years ago

    I certainly don't like the idea of GT5 being a download-only service, but if GT:HD gives PS3 owners a little taste of what's to come, what's the problem?

    The problem is ppl like me not wanting stuff like this and eventually being forced to use it or stop gaming. A) When I buy a game, I expect it to be complete. Patches and expantions are oke imo, but they shouldn't be part of the core product. B) I'm not going to pay for games that arn't on a solid medium. I wan to see a dataholder and a nice box with a manual + extra's in return for my hard earned money.

    This whole DLC has been a part of the xbx and the 360 for a while now and in all this time I could only be tempted to buy 3 things (because they gave really good value for money). However, I do get the feeling that we are being forced to use these systems more and more.

  • Mordum #85 5 years ago

    Sounds quite ridiculous really. How will people know what cars and tracks are worth their money untill they've raced with/on them... of course in order to do that you have to pay out for everything. If the games not ready, then don't release it yet... if at all, as most people are probably more looking forward to GT5 anyway (if you're a fan of the GT games that is) and not this simple cash in.

    As 'The Bodybuilder' already mentioned... its gonna be a right pain to review.
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 18:55

  • dredd97 #86 5 years ago

    it's hardly surprising sony are doing this, their just jumping on the bandwagon which m$ introduced...

    as soon as bill gates mentioned xbox live and micro transactions i knew that games would sooner or later be sold with features held back just so we mugs can pay extra to get them later...

    PGR3 has had them for a while, sony is just trying 1 upmanship on m$, how long before you download a FPS for say £5 and then have to pay £2.50 for every enemy you want to shoot in the game, while similtaneously being bombarded by 'selected' in game advertising...

    welcome to the 21st century friends, where big business will do, what Jack Thompson has failed to do, and kill of video games as an entertainment artform...

  • Psi #87 5 years ago

    the chippy across from work charges 25p for each of those little things of red or brown sauce.

    i think it's fucking rediculus that to get the amount of sauce from them i'd have to pay around the same as the chips i'd like to dunk in them.

    plastic forks are also expensive!

    i find that by charging people significant amounts of money for items they expect for free not to go down too well.

    oh and fucking B&Q!! charging for plastic bags to put the £250 work of gear I buy from them doesn't go down too well either!
    Edited by 1 at 26/09/06 @ 20:29

  • chronom4n #88 5 years ago

    can't believe that they are including Ferraris! but that fact has been overshadowed by all this talk of buying tracks and cars. I only ever use a few select cars on a few select tracks but i cant see the justification of the asking price that sony want me to give to them. I mean for exampel, on PGR2 when playing the game on xbox live, it was a let down when i could not race against guys who had not purchased the downloadable content. the other thing that had me riled was that some of the cars that were available as dlc were cars i did not like too much. With regards to the game taking 6 months to model, i can only assume that it has to do with the intensity of the crash damage modelling. i can only hope that the damage will be realistic to the point where the car would not be driveable anymore. overall i would have to say that this custom purchasing idea creates more problems than it solves. I cant see the logic/benefit of someon buying all of the cars and tracks.

  • Rambaldi #89 5 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    "What do you pay for a PGR3 car?"

    If you don't want to: nothing. Fact is, you don't need to because the best cars come with it. Oh, and it has that oh so last-gen thing that comes with it too: tracks.

  • Tayl #90 5 years ago

    ^last-gen jaggies & loading times, too.
    /loves PGR3, really.

  • IP #91 5 years ago

    Yeah, so the cars are "just" 50-100 yen each. What they didn't tell you is that the KEYS to the cars are 500 yen per set, 'cause you have to get them digitally cut at Sony's Online Emporium For the Seriously Deluded (or "shop" for short).

  • Xerx3s #92 5 years ago

    Psi, you can be sarcastic all you want, but it doesn't hold. You buy a game. Then you can expect that it has all the features to play the game. Buying a racing game and then saying that you have to buy the tracks and cars to play it (under the flase flag of "but now you can customise!";). I don't have anything against DLC. I don't complain about prices (after all, you are the one that makes to the choice to buy it). However, critisism is in place when they do stunts like this.

  • zoidberg #93 5 years ago

    100.

    and why does every thread nowadays seem to be microsoft vs. sony... and ninty in between? could be a version of two and a half consoles.

  • Lex_Luthor #94 5 years ago

    "and why does every thread nowadays seem to be microsoft vs. sony..."

    Someone dropped the insecurity bomb, and the fallout isn't about to clear up any time soon.

  • Psi #95 5 years ago

    Xerx3s i can be sarcastic because i can't think of exactly how to express my hatred for this type of thing. what they are doing is taking online gaming into the relms of ringtone purchasing fuckhead mentality. how long till im seeing ocean finance fucking adverts in games because some marketing dickhead has had an idea!?!

    oh and back onto my topic of dunking foodstuffs! working nightshift and we got pizzas from papa johns next to the aforementioned chippy.. they supply garlic butter to dunk your pizza into! the garlic butters free!! not an additional cost!

    i think i've just knocked 10 years off my life dunking a 14" pizza into butter basically.. gillian mckeith would faint! :D ill send her one of my poo's

  • Psi #96 5 years ago

    lex someone dropped the insecurity bomb back when the c64 and speccy were out. and its never gonna change. the main reason the ninty fans don't get caught up in as many squbbles is they've been through it with master system, megadrive etc etc etc...

    the closest console eveyone comes to agreeing with was great was the dreamcast and it was a massive failure... gutted

  • kangarootoo #97 5 years ago

    "they supply garlic butter to dunk your pizza into! the garlic butters free!! not an additional cost! "

    That butter isn't really free you know. They just factor it into the cost of your pizza.

    ;)

  • Psi #98 5 years ago

    well thats just fine and dandy mr kanga, but if i walked into the pizza place and ordered a 14" pizza took it home to find a bare base and nowt on it, only to find out i had to have each bit of pepperoni onion and the butter drenching delivered seperate....

    id tell them it could be done a far easier way :p
    (still taste this garlic butter, or is it copper? why is my arm tingling?)

  • chronom4n #99 5 years ago

    @psi, thanks for clearling up the confusion in my head with regards to GT HD. i like the analogy of ringtones. i absolutely hate them like there is no tomorrow. I can see exactly why u dislike the GTHD concept. i am seriously thinking that it is not going to be worth my time and money to take the gamble for the next generation of consoles if all the companies want is to make more money out of than they already are. running a family etc, is expensive as it is and this is one extra burden thing that i do not need.
    I reckon there will come a time when gamers will long for a time when the whole game came on a physical disc.!!!!

  • Psi #100 5 years ago

    yup expect to get bad credit ratings and CCJ's when you don't pay your Sony gaming bill on time. expect ocean's finance adverts in game! expect to see adverts asking if your a home owner before asking if you want the new sony playstation! expect 0870 support numbers with crazy frog hold music! expect CAROLE FUCKING VORDERMAN!

    ..its late.. i've had far too much coffee... sorry..

  • Mordum #101 5 years ago

    @zoidberg
    "and why does every thread nowadays seem to be microsoft vs. sony... and ninty in between? could be a version of two and a half consoles."

    I'm not sure if you were talking about this particular thread, but I had'nt read a single reference to the Microsoft vs Sony issue untill you brought it up.

  • chronom4n #102 5 years ago

    @PSI -the smallprint "your console/home/life/family/ (delete which is appropriate) may be repossesed if you do not keep up repayments!" can u imagine the day when the bailiffs come round to your yard to collect their dues!

  • Psi #103 5 years ago

    I've been totally wrong on this whole idea!

    This is more like the Marchel and Cavendish or whatever magasines!

    Collect week by week to build your own game, part one comes with a free stearing wheel, only 1.99 (normal retail price 8.99) collects week by week into a big pile of shite!
    ( reminds be of this http://ww w.beaverandsteve.com/index.php?... )

    and this already... http://ww w.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/0...
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/06 @ 02:26

  • chronom4n #104 5 years ago

    i know what kazanouri has had in mind all along, he wanted to train us to buy cars using the credits in gt's1-4 and now he wants us to REALLY SPEND REAL CREDITS to buy cars. it is his secret mission to make us all turn in to some sort of car-nut.

    if he really wants us to go this way, then he can sod off. by the time gt5 gets released i will have a family as i intend to do micro-transactions with my sperm so i can get a baby with the missus!!

  • 3william56 #105 5 years ago

    psi: I don't know where you buy your pizza mate, but I think you'll find that a business model based on buying a basic pizza with 1-2 toppings, then paying extra for each topping you want is a fairly common one.

    Probably the most valid point is not knowing whether tracks / cars are any good before buying. Though with a bit of luck, there'll be a test drive feature.

  • KD #106 5 years ago

    I cant see me ever getting this GT with this system. What i would like to know is if you have to buy the cars people are using online to actually be able to race against them, either way its not a pretty future :(

  • JackB #107 5 years ago

    Man, I am glad the Sony Online service is FREE! WooHoo! Tell me again what FREE means, because I get confused.

  • Artemis_Matsas #108 5 years ago

    I know that i'm late with the comment, but thanks @kangarootoo for the info about purchasing downloadable content. I really haven't ever done this, and i am a bit sceptical, so every bit of info is welcome.
    Anyway, i hope that we are not going to buy each and every patch that is going to be released for our games in the future!

  • Xerx3s #109 5 years ago

    lex someone dropped the insecurity bomb back when the c64 and speccy were out.

    Well it's only logical. I mean, how can speccy owners not be insecure when faced with the awesomeness of the c64. ;)

  • lotteryman82 #110 5 years ago

    well it could be something different like Open early 90s french cars (total 35cars x 0.3euro 10.50e now available for just 3.5 etc ) the big picture is that you never have a whole game which is a problem and if you don't have broadband for your ps3 is really an even bigger problem

    on the other hand if i remember correctly the modeling for the cars takes about 5 months per car i think funding is a issue and perhaps squeezing a few pennies out of us per month is better than releasing demos ( concept GTs ) on 35euro so i guess in a way you de be paying more or less the same while waiting for GT5 as you would any other time

    but i d rather have a standalone Gt5 thananything else

  • kangarootoo #111 5 years ago

    @Psi

    Don't many pizza shops do a build-your-own option though. So you get a basic base and then choose which toppings you want, charged for individually?

    HA!!

    I win the pizza debate, I won it, me, winning, the pizza debate.

    /am childish

  • neil_likes_bums #112 5 years ago

    This is cool, now I can download just the cars/tracks I want, instead of paying 40 quid and having the whole lot. I wonder how many cars/tracks you'll get for 40 quid then, I'm guessing nowhere near the number of cars/tracks found in previous GTs?

    It is just another ploy to suck money from your wallet, that is all. Variety is GOOD. I bought the Oblivion horse armour, then I realised what an idiot I was for doing that, this is more horse armour as far as I'm concerned, except you need it.

    I am truly more alienated every day by these announcements :(

  • Psi #113 5 years ago

    ..yes but you have them build your own pizza there and then and you can have all the toppings you want.

    i said you got a bare pizza then had to purchase the toppings when you got home :p

    kk bad analogy.. :p