Zelda producer slags own game

By Ellie Gibson Published 25 July, 2005

Wind Waker "dull", says Aonuma.

Zelda creator Shigeru Miyamoto and Wind Waker director Eiji Aonuma have admitted that the last instalment in the GameCube series wasn't quite up to scratch - promising they'll do a lot better with Twilight Princess.

Aonuma told Swedish magazine Reset that the gameplay in Wind Waker was "dull", admitting that he was in a bit of a hurry when it came to working on the triforce piece hunt.

"At the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel complete," he said.

"I apologise that we didn't fix the triforce hunt at the end of the game. It was slow and dull."

But lessons have been learned, according to Aonuma: "During the development of Twilight Princess, I refused to repeat the same mistakes.

"It means more responsibility for me, but this time we can't let things go wrong."

Miyamoto echoed Aonuma's comments, telling Reset that he wants Twilight Princess "to contain all sides of what people think of the Legend of Zelda series.

"I have absorbed the criticism we got from The Wind Waker, that the sea was too big and the number of dungeons and caves were too few," he said.

"The new game will have more dungeons. Many more."

As previously suggested Twilight Princess will be a lot darker than previous Zelda games - Link is an adult now, and the storyline is "long, complex and occasionally serious," according to Miyamoto and Aonuma. It's slated for a November release and, as you'll know if you read our first impressions of the game, it's shaping up very nicely indeed.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (49) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • KraftWerk #1 7 years ago

    That makes me happy, somehow.

  • O-Fox #2 7 years ago

    I don't want to start a console war here, but this makes a change from the usual 'everything we do is perfect, and if you don't like it you'll just have to get used to it' mantra from a certain other japanese bloke...

  • abeit #3 7 years ago

    "I don't want to start a console war here, but this makes a change from the usual 'everything we do is perfect, and if you don't like it you'll just have to get used to it' mantra from a certain other japanese bloke..."

    Which other bloke are you taliking about

  • Aretak #4 7 years ago

    You slag!

    /needed to say that

    /don't know why

  • MBar #5 7 years ago

    dont agree that it was "dull" at any point (and i got all the treasures and completed the photo/statue quest thing, basically did everything), but i'll certainly take the more dungeons etc etc.

    but make it harder, for gawd sake!

  • abigsmurf #6 7 years ago

    Thats suprisingly honest and frank of him.

    Kudos

  • Teeth #7 7 years ago

    I don't agree with the sub-heading 'Wind Waker "dull" says Aonuma.' as it implies that he said his entire game was dull, which he didn't.

    Tri-force search was dull though. Even I found it boring and I have a lot of patience. I had many islands left to visit though so that lifted the tedium a little, but it was still too much sailing.

  • #8 7 years ago

    This is what Aonuma actually said (the Triforce piece hunt near the end of the game especially could have been improved):

    "At the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn’t feel complete. I apologise that we didn’t fix the triforce hunt at the end of the game. It was slow and dull."

    CONTEXT PLEASE!!
    Edited by 1 at 25/07/05 @ 12:29

  • O-Fox #9 7 years ago

    abeit: Some bigwig in Sony, I remember him saying that about the PSP and a possible dodgy square button, as well as about how difficult to code the Playstation 3 was. I think it was him that said both, who knows.
    But that isn't really important, as I said it's just refreshing to have a developer be so open about something like that.

  • Vin #10 7 years ago

    The sailing was the most soul deadening experience, ever.

    Ever.

  • lemonfist #11 7 years ago

    That triforce hunt was a bit boring at times, but I can't hate Wind Waker for that. It's probably my favourite game this gen. And I'm one of the (apparently few) people who love just sailing around exploring the game world.

  • Hicksy #12 7 years ago

    It's still a great game, even if the travelling was trying at times

    If Twilight Princess is going to be more focussed then that has to be a great thing

    Most exciting game of this gen imho - can't wait!!!!!!!!

  • Dizzy #13 7 years ago

    Good.. looking forward to new Zelda.

  • the_angry_monkey #14 7 years ago

    I remeber getting to the first town island (Windfall?) and thinking how great Zelda WW was! Then after several hours more I realised there were not going to be any more towns!!! If only there had been more towns it would have been a better game imo. 2 other things would help:

    Being able to buy new weapons like in the GB Zelda

    Not having a find item - use item system - mix it up a bit like in Minish Cap so you are using all your skills all the time!

  • tpfkanep #15 7 years ago

    "Wind Waker "dull", says Aonuma."
    ----------------
    Professional, I suppose.

  • Cloudane #16 7 years ago

    Apart from the tri-force chapter, the souless open-ended ocean and the repetive treasure hunting; I thought The Wind Waker was wonderful.

    I just get fed up of people comparing the old classics to the newer additions to certain series, for example: FFVII, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, Halo and so forth.

    I hope this game will send the GameCube out in style before closing the curtains down.

  • timo180 #17 7 years ago

    "And I'm one of the (apparently few) people who love just sailing around exploring the game world."

    I loved it too. \o/

  • captain-future #18 7 years ago

    I liked Wind Wanker as it was - and I don't see why people today complain about the game who said it was the best Zelda ever - just a few years ago.

    Very untypically of Japanese people to stomp on their on creations.

  • mrpsb #19 7 years ago

    The problem with the sea wasn't that it was big, it was that it was mostly empty. Funnily enough I didn't get too bored with WW when I first ran through it, but still haven't been able to bring myself to play it through again, like I could with OOT.

  • drumbaby #20 7 years ago

    The man he have a point.

  • #21 7 years ago

    And I'm one of the (apparently few) people who love just sailing around exploring the game world.

    You're not the only one. I loved sailing on that boat (to that stirring music and bright blue ocean and sky) and exploring the game world too. The only thing that irked me was using that conductor to change wind direction again and again and again.

    I remeber getting to the first town island (Windfall?) and thinking how great Zelda WW was! Then after several hours more I realised there were not going to be any more towns!!!

    Exactly how I felt! Towns mean activity, talking to people, exploring buildings, having lots and lots to do...

    It's strange how people look at past titles with rose-tinted specs. Zelda: Ocarina had it's fair share of faults too. I'd MUCH RATHER search the tri-foce pieces (slow and dull as it was) in the open sea then be stuck in that blasted water temple in Ocarina.

  • Blerk #22 7 years ago

    Good to see them admitting that it wasn't quite finished. It was excellent up to the tri-force hunt, after that it all felt dreadfully cobbled together and it completely spoiled the end of an otherwise excellent game.

    Very much looking forward to the new instalment. Yes.

  • RumpyStumpy #23 7 years ago

    I just stopped playing this when (forgive me i can't remember exactly the details) you had to get a feather and take it to some git, who then decides he wants 16 of the bloody things.

    I got bored and thought how crap it was of nintendo to pad out the game in this way.

  • captain-future #24 7 years ago

    I liked the sea travel as well - but the world should / could have been bigger, more places to go with cities etc. where you actually can do something.

    gave WW a 9 / 10 and stand by my decision, it was the second best reason to own a cube. reason number one was of course resident evil.

  • Fozzie_bear #25 7 years ago

    Honest of him. The thing is what i think of the legend of zelda series is...

    Nice idea and mechanics.
    Good fun for few hours.
    Eventually puzzles get rather obscure meaning endless wandering about hoping to bump into what to do next or resort to a guide.
    Give up and get bored.
    Come back to it a while later.
    Realise that you've forgotten what to do and there are no cues to help you on the way.
    Stick on shelf to gather dust.

    Above has happened (sooner or later) with every zelda game i've bought. Going to give this one a miss i think.

  • Darkedge #26 7 years ago

    I tried WW and yup I found it all dull. But it's a matter of opinion.
    No game is everything to everybody.

  • kangarootoo #27 7 years ago

    Quite refreshing. Some honest comment instead of the usual marketing word play. Although it is still marketing of a different type (but then I would say that, cynical git that I am).

    Most grumpy "my way or the highway" award for me goes to the moody sunglasses wearing chap who was behind Ninja Gaiden. When commenting on players who found the game too hard he said something along the lines of "they should stop complaining and fight". Whether you thought the game was too hard or not, that sort of attitude is just childish. Plus, anyone who wears sunglasses in a dark room (medical conditions excepted) is to be mocked and ridiculed.

    Anyway, I'm going off topic, time for a nice cup cake.

  • killyourtv #28 7 years ago

    since when was a 16 year old an adult

  • O-Fox #29 7 years ago

    'since when was 16 year old an adult'
    in the UK, you're legally an adult when you are 16 (though bizzarely your parents still ave legal custody over you until you are 18). Also according to judaism you are an adult at 14.
    Yeah, I'm in a smart-arsed mood today.

  • kincaide #30 7 years ago

    I loved the Wind Waker - and nothing they say about it now in attempting to hype up the next one will change my mind


  • steven #31 7 years ago

    I don't agree with the sub-heading 'Wind Waker "dull" says Aonuma.' as it implies that he said his entire game was dull, which he didn't.

    Exactly, how professional EuroGamer :|

    Anyway, yeah they admitted the treasure hunt was dull and I agree, far from exciting like the overall game, this only makes me more excited about Twilight Princess, oh and for those complaining about TP taking a dark approach, Majora's Mask already did that and it was excellent all round. Nintendo's ideas are usually inspired and come from a Director/Producer's creative vision, not just make a game dark because they have to or want to appeal to a wide audience.

  • wizbob #32 7 years ago

    Changing the wind direction was a pain but the sailing was actually fine, stuff happened every twenty seconds or so; storms, shark attacks, the barrel-hopping game, etc.

    Still my favorite game of the last few years and God knows I'm easily bored.

  • abigsmurf #33 7 years ago

    while the triforce was an unneeded time sink (although no one would question it if Wind Waker had been an MMORPG....) The end boss was simply great, I was smiling the whole way through it

  • otto #34 7 years ago

    He's right, the triforce quest was dull and the latter dungeons were not up to the standard of the first two. The sailing was wonderful though and no way was the sea too big, I loved the sense of vastness. I could sail around for days! That was one of the most memorable in-game experiences I've had, sailing in Wind Waker. Oh and we don't need *more* dungeons, just better ones. Dammit why do games designers always think more = better? It doesn't, better = better. o_O

  • the_angry_monkey #35 7 years ago

    Don't get me wrong of course I thought the character design in WW was breathtakingly beautiful and I loved the water effects and the sailing into the sunset stuff - but more towns would have been the answer :D

  • #36 7 years ago

    Less dungeons, more towns!!

  • gerg #37 7 years ago

    I'll probably add nothing to the discussion but you're an adult in Judaism when you're 13 for a boy and 12 for a girl. NOT 14.

  • mattigan #38 7 years ago

    "Too many damn games are taking this "darker" approach. Didn't they learn from Warrior Within?

    Well it all depends on who's making the games-

    A "Darker" American game = Warrior Within = Shit

    A "Darker" Japanese game = Majoras Mask = Shit Hot

  • RealFolkBlues #39 7 years ago

    "The new Zelda will have more dungeons. Many more"

    ....thank you so much, Nintendo.
    /tears of joy

  • el_pollo_diablo #40 7 years ago

    "...there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel complete"

    Who forced you to approve them? Are you making excuses? Are you? Then you deserve to be fired.

  • freedumb #41 7 years ago

    If you explore the details you'll find the reason he had to approve them was beacuse of the deadline they had to meet. Just like Mario Sunshine, they didn't have a Valve-like 'when its done its done' timeframe to work within, the Cube was still in its infancy and they had to get the games out quicker. Not saying I approve of this, but thats what happens.

    The good thing is that they've had ample time and still do to work on Twilight Princess, so its obviously going to benfit the game this time round.
    Edited by 3 at 25/07/05 @ 19:57

  • sumanai #42 7 years ago

    Well personally I think that when someone complains to a game developer that his games are too difficult, it's appropriate to say "Well, tough", especially since you can't make a game that's suitably challenging to everyone. My main complain about Ninja Gaiden is it's stupid saving-thing. A friend saved, without noticing that he was under attack at the time, and dies everytime he loads, right at the moment.
    From what I can tell, Twilight Princess is just "darker", while Warrior Within tried to be grim and moody. Wasn't there kitties and stuff in TP? Hardly "smoldering with generic rage" imo.

  • ProfessorLesser #43 7 years ago

    Dammit why do games designers always think more = better?

    Don't forget who you're talking about, Otto! :-D

    I am a HUGE fan of this series, but I never liked Wind Waker. It has always been a thorn in my side, and the sailing/triforce farce was only a fraction of the problem. And before anyone says... no, I loved the cel-shading.

    This is very good news.

    Thanks to gerg and Mattigan for clearing those points up for me, also :-)
    Edited by 1 at 26/07/05 @ 17:29

  • SlackMaster #44 7 years ago

    I really don't know why Windwaker gets slagged by some people... Aw, it was cartoony and not realisitc enough... *It's a Zelda game and it was doing something a lil different* Go and play GTA you Slaagggs, not everything has to look or play realistic!

    Plus having a massive sea to sail about on was great... more dungeons in the next game... YAWN... :(

    I WANT OPEN SPACE NOT MORE DUNGEONS CRAMP DULL ROOMS TO SKULK ABOUT IN...

    Edited by 1 at 26/07/05 @ 12:47

  • the_angry_monkey #45 7 years ago

    Yeah more dungeons would be crap - dungeons were always my least favourite part of Zelda games...What I want is more to explore, lots of mini games and tasks....oh and better items. Once you have discovered one chest of Rupees it gets boring and all I can buy is stupid flowers!

  • Genji #46 7 years ago

    I think the number of dungeons in Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time is about right. If you have lots of them you run the risk of making them too samey, and bring the whole game down as a result.

  • ProfessorLesser #47 7 years ago

    Worth bearing in mind that of all developers, Nintendo are least likely to fall prey to making their games samey. I can't really tell you that any two Ninty games I've played have been samey.

    And before someone dredges up the "oh look, ANOTHER Mario game" argument, whoever said that revolution had to come with new IPs? Nintendo stick to their franchises, but they add to and improve upon them like no other developer.

    Chances are strong, especially after this interview, having recognised their mistakes, that they will not let Twilight Princess become a victim of the kind of EA-style repetitiveness that some of us (myself included) fear.

  • Scimarad #48 7 years ago

    Oh crap, Windwaker was my favourite one; Not that I ever completed any of them, though.

  • Burton2000 #49 7 years ago

    im sure if they do 8 dungeons like they usualy do of the varying sizes and dificulties like ocarinas then itll all b fine and dandy