Sony denies PS3 rumours

By Rob Fahey Published 25 May, 2006

Regarding preowned games.

A report from website GamesRadar claiming that it will be illegal to sell used games for the PS3 has been officially denied by Sony today, with a spokesperson telling our sister site, GamesIndustry.biz, that it is "false speculation."

GamesRadar yesterday reported that Sony was warning high street retailers that the sale of pre-owned games would be illegal due to the licensing terms of PS3 software, which would mean that discs technically remained the property of Sony.

However, a Sony Computer Entertainment UK spokesperson today outright denied that any such message had been conveyed to retailers - telling GI.biz that following conversations with the firm's European parent company, neither division has "any knowledge" of such a strategy.

"We have definitely not been communicating that," UK spokesperson Jennie Kong confirmed. "It's false speculation. We don't have any further knowledge about this topic - either officially or unofficially, to be frank."

It would appear that the report is based on the resurrection of a much earlier rumour in this regard, which surfaced most recently last November with claims that PS3 software would "bind" to the first machine it was played on, and would be unusable on any other system.

At the time, Sony completely debunked the rumour - telling UK newspaper The Guardian in no uncertain terms that: "PlayStation 3 software will not be copy protected to a single machine but will be playable on any PlayStation 3 console."

Speaking to us this afternoon, Kong confirmed that "there has been no official comment on this since the story that came up a few months ago - it hasn't changed since then, and we're quite surprised by why this has popped up again, to be honest."

However, this is one industry urban legend that just won't go away, it appears. Sony has been attached to various efforts to stamp out the second hand software market ever since a group of Japanese publishers failed in their efforts to have the used-software trade outlawed in that territory, but the company has consistently denied that it plans to use invasive DRM-style measures in this way.

With the firm already making massive gambles on factors such as the price point of the system and the popularity of the Blu-Ray next-gen DVD format, it's perhaps unsurprising that it's not keen on gambling on removing used games - often cited as a key factor in driving the mass-market acceptance of gaming - from the equation as well.

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Comments (52) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • tonynibbles #1 6 years ago

    KONG!

  • Darren #2 6 years ago

    What a stupid rumour anyway... Pay £60 for a game, play it and if you want to get rid of it you can only throw or give it away!!! :?

    If it was true I certainly would NOT buy a PS3...

  • EGBartonFink #3 6 years ago

    Ooo Sony and invasive DRM measures, not them surely ;)
    They would never try something like that now would they?
    Oh! They already did ye say, fancy that.
    Edited by 1 at 25/05/06 @ 16:09

  • Rodster #4 6 years ago

    Something all Publishers wish would happen and eventually will. That's why they keep bringing up Digital Distribution.

    I'm not a Sony disciple but this is something if true I would not blame Sony at all. I bet EA is watching.

  • EGBartonFink #5 6 years ago

    Why not?

  • teabagger #6 6 years ago

    I can see both sides to be honest. As a consumer I'd be outraged if they bought in draconian measures to stop the 2nd hand market, but I can also see the damage it inflicts on the profitability of games (which is a bad thing for consumers too, as publishers and devs won't take any risks on titles).

    I think the only way round it, as already pointed out, is digital distribution from the publishers. This must come with a corresponding price reduction of *at least* what would be added on by retail (so something in the region of 40% price reduction).

  • EGBartonFink #7 6 years ago

    Not much good for the retailers though.

  • trevd72 #8 6 years ago

    they want to do it but they know they can't......yet!! they can only do it when the other manufactures do so. if this ever happens I will either be an ex gamer or i will become a total retro gamer.

    This will come in via the backdoor or should i say the ethernet port. thats why they are looking at games in demand et al. THis way you pay them directly for the game and then it only exists on your system, in effect its here with Live! Arcade and STEAM!!

  • #9 6 years ago

    We don't have any further knowledge about this topic - either officially or unofficially, to be frank
    Do you have any knowledge about anything?
    This internet rumor (probably started by some 360 fanboi in some forum) has always seemed proposterous to me.
    Edited by 1 at 25/05/06 @ 16:21

  • Drakron #10 6 years ago

    There will be no drastic price reduction, STEAM already shows that ... they will simply point out the server costs so in essence you are trading one distibution cost for another.

    Publishers like to shift the blame on their own mistakes, they blame poor sales in piracy and anything else when their "me too '05 edition" failed to meet their expectations.

  • 786Beast #11 6 years ago

    hopefully ps3 gams won't cost more than £50, if it's higher, bye,bye ps3!

  • Gurgeh #12 6 years ago

    In part this stems from Sony's patent on a game disk registering itself to only be played on one console.

  • mattigan #13 6 years ago

    Not much good for the retailers though.

    They actually make MORE money out of used games than new ones, CEX for example has a 33% markup between the price they buy and sell them for. And I have a friend that works for GAME tht says that they are their biggest earner!

  • lennon #14 6 years ago

    Would it rule out the 7 day returns policy that means crap games stay where they belong? It would certainly mean I would take less chances on buying games that I wasnt 100% about.

  • BartonFink #15 6 years ago

    @mattigan - that comment was in relation to the previous post about digital distribution
    :)

  • mattigan #16 6 years ago

    Hmm yeah, I see what you mean now, I'll get my coat!

  • #17 6 years ago

    @ mattigan
    The retailers make more money, but this is not passed on to Sony/MS/Nintendo/the publisher/the developer etc. afaik. Once the product is shipped and paid for that's it - that's their cut.
    So here we go.
    GAME buys Oblivion for £47. They sell it for £50. £3 profit.
    They then buy it back from you at £25 - £22 loss so far (not to mention the income that £3 has earnt in the interim)
    They then sell it for £35-40 used. That's a £13-18 profit now - see?
    So sure, used games are their biggest earner, but the companies and developers and studios see none of this - once, it's shipped, it's out of their hands. The way they make money is for GAME etc to ask for more units. Suddely the distributer/company etc make more money - so you can now maybe see why Sony are pushing this DRM so hard.
    Edited by 2 at 25/05/06 @ 16:50

  • drumbaby #18 6 years ago

    I'm still not buying a PS3 on the basis that it could have been true....had it not been debunked.

  • Rodster #19 6 years ago

    With some games costing in the range of 25-50 million dollars, I can't blame Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo etc for trying to recoup their investment as well as for the developers.

  • JediMasterMalik #20 6 years ago

    Drumbaby that makes no sense.

  • jack_klugman #21 6 years ago

    I'm not buying a PlayStation3 on the basis that PS3 said quickly sounds a bit like "piss three". Piss. Three.

  • glaeken #22 6 years ago

    That have not actually said they won't be doing this in their denials.

    They seem very insistent they know nothing about the reports but unless I am reading it wrong they don't deny it might be an option they go for. I mean what I would want to see on this is an answer like no we definitely won't be doing any such thing not we know nothing about these rumors.

  • Perry #23 6 years ago

    Surely this can never work.

    What if your PS3 breaks down, non-repairable. Will Sony buy all your games for you again?

    I'm sure Microsoft tried something similar with Microsoft Office 5 years back, and the exact same argument meant that it was rebuffed in the courts (e.g. you are buying the software to run on a hardware machine).

    Confusing the two will never work, unless digital distribution which is surely where the market is going

    Edit: Oh yeah, if Sony do input this, i will not buy a PS3, and PS is my normal console of choice. They'd lose lots of sales because of this. Wont happen.
    Edited by 2 at 25/05/06 @ 17:28

  • crickson #24 6 years ago

    Has anyone else noticed a tiny anti-sony bias in gamesradar reporting? It seems they are willing to jump on any crazy rumour like this one and report it as fact, or portray any uncertainty in sony's next-gen strategy as if their plans are in chaos... just an observation.

  • groovychainsaw #25 6 years ago

    If they were going to make games cheaper (because obviously they would be getting sooooo many more sales with no used games any more), then that would be ok. But they won't, so it's an outrage (If it happens).

  • JediMasterMalik #26 6 years ago

    Yeh crickson I have, thye even got the rumour about lack of wireless controller for the 20Gb version. Weirdos.

  • kangarootoo #27 6 years ago

    @JediMasterMalik

    "Drumbaby that makes no sense"

    I think that is kind of his point. Its called parody.

  • albundy #28 6 years ago

    People like to have a moan don't they.....

    I wasn't getting a PlayStation 3 anyway. Xbox 360 for me. But even if Sony did block the 2nd hand market, so what? I don't see the lack of such a market badly hampering CD's, or DVD's. Only games seem to come requisite with a trade-in service. If you buy a game and you don't like it.....I dunno. Chuck it in the bin or summat. That'll teach you for not doing your research and impulse buying!

    :p

  • Wobble #29 6 years ago

    I'm not buying a PS3 beca*Fuck sony they'll never take me alive!*use I disagree with their cavalier attitude towards installing drm software on my pc without my permission.

  • Arwin #30 6 years ago

    MSN owned Gamesradar strikes again, eh? Third time in a week they spread a lie about the PS3 now is it?

    I wonder how long it takes before a major publication takes note and puts Gamesradar in its place publicly ...
    Edited by 1 at 25/05/06 @ 18:08

  • Bru-Man #31 6 years ago

    Speaking to us this afternoon, Kong confirmed that "RAARGH! AAAAR-Ug ooh-oooh-uh-uh.. wa WA WAAAAARGH!"

  • Tyronne #32 6 years ago

    I have said it before and I will say it again,I honestly cannot see their justification for moaning.Now I can see their arguments but their arguments could be altered slightly and be used for any company with which we buy things off.

    You could have a car company complaining that the 2nd hand car market stops buyers buying their latest range of cars and that they receive no monies from people selling their cars to car forecourts to be sold on again,house builders moaning about the house market and how people use agencies to sell their homes without the builders getting any money for it after all they built the house/car/boat/radio/bread bin...

    We should be free to do whatever we wish with the goods we own and games should not be a area which receives any special treatment.

  • belteshazzar #33 6 years ago

    I don't trust them.

  • #34 6 years ago

    Jamesphilp, you're talking crap re: GAME's cost price.

    Yes we make more out of used but that's because we make fuck all out of new.



  • Mordum #35 6 years ago

    @albundy
    "I don't see the lack of such a market badly hampering sales of CD's or DVD's"

    I'm not sure quite what you mean... most of the DVD's I buy are second hand... from the high street, or online.

  • Golgo #36 6 years ago

    ...the rumour (if true) would make perfect sense, it's just another face of their anti-import (i.e., prosecute importers) strategy.

    Basically we're talking about a strategy of protectionism, which is something that the world's governments usually resort to when they feel threatened.


  • Arwin #37 6 years ago

    I have two words:

    Live Arcade ...

    ;)

  • WicKeD #38 6 years ago

    And I thought you was going to say E-Distribution Initiative!

    :rollseyes:

  • SeesThroughAll #39 6 years ago

    due to the licensing terms of PS3 software, which would mean that discs technically remained the property of Sony.

    What a load of bullshit, even if the license terms really are those, that still just sounds like a standard EULA to me. I mean, people have been buying Windows under these very same conditions for ages - MS still owns the software you're running, and on top of all, they won't take responsability for what happens to your hardware either -, but nobody moans about that. Neither would it make any sense.

    Irresponsible FUD.

    EG in another sensationalist header shocker.

  • JA$ON #40 6 years ago

    Sony fuck off, the end.

  • teabagger #41 6 years ago

    "GAME buys Oblivion for £47. They sell it for £50. £3 profit."

    Heheheh! I suspect their profit margins are somewhat higher than that.

    The big retail chains are greedy, they have had the industry by the balls for some time now and I have no sympathy with their future plight. In fact I look forward to the day when digital distribution is the norm and they're all begging for spare change in the street. No more charging silly money for shelf space, nor tens of thousands for your game to appear in their catalogue (which is mandatory of course) and no more giving chart positions to the highest bidder. Bloody good riddence to them all.
    Edited by 2 at 26/05/06 @ 00:05

  • IronGiant #42 6 years ago

    The days of game retailers as we know them now are numbered. Electronic distribution and episodic content is where the industry is heading sadly.. i will always prefer to own the physical game disc/cartridge or whatever. MS, Sony or whoever can shove micro payments where the sun fears to shine.

  • 3william56 #43 6 years ago

    Can't happen. Won't happen. Next.

  • Mr_Whacker #44 6 years ago

    In my local GAME store all the pre-owned titles are cheaper brand new on the internet. Its a joke.

  • #45 6 years ago

    @ King of the Indies
    Jamesphilp, you're talking crap re: GAME's cost price.

    Yes we make more out of used but that's because we make fuck all out of new.

    I thought that was kinda my point?
    Try reading the post again before saying I'm talking crap, numknuts.

    You may see I picked the arbritrary cost figure of £47 for a game that sells for £50. Hey, if it's more l;ike £48-49, sorry dude. It was a simple example that I hoped would be understandable even to simple people.
    If you work at GAME and you still don't know the difference of what I mean as the 'retailer' (i.e. GAME) and the developer/publisher/company then I despair.

    @ teabagger

    Heheheh! I suspect their profit margins are somewhat higher than that.

    I think you'd be quite surprised - see Indies' post.

    Honestly, does anyone read the threads before posting?

  • coojam #46 6 years ago

    Profit on new games is MUCH MUCH more than that...when staff are sold games on discount (25%) the company STILL makes a profit. This means they buy them in at the very most for £37.49.

    Preowned margins are much better still though.

    However, it is not the retailers that have the prices by the balls...its the distributors and publishers.

    A couple of years back, Game tried reducing pretty much ALL new games to £29.99 hoping that everybody would follow suit and the publishers and distributors would comply. It didn't happen and Game faced a very poor financial situation, so had to revert to the £39.99 (or 37 whatever it is) price point.

    And that argument about there being no preowned DVD or CD market is balls...DVDs and CDs cost about a quarter the price of a game brand new...theyre cheaper brand new than most new release games are preowned. THATS why we need the preowned market.

  • darkmistx #47 6 years ago

    I think all but the dumbest idiots on the internet should know by now that MS is trying to spead FUD regarding the PS3.

  • Notorious_LRO #48 6 years ago

    I heard that the makers of washing machines also consider this strategy. Once you plug it in to your house water system, the washer recognizes the special properties of the water (compositions of zinc, iron and so on) and it will only work with a house with that exact same water ID. Fluctuations in water components will naturally change with time, but the system is built to tolerate gradual changes.

    Personally I think that a washing machine hack or mod chip will surface rather soon after Whirlpool (I guess they are pioneering the system) launch the first model. The only thing I'm wondering about, is if I should go for the W20D or just the W20 - the model without hard-drive.

    (Yup, its all bullshit)
    Edited by 1 at 26/05/06 @ 11:23

  • #49 6 years ago

    Coojam,

    is my post just cryptic or summit? I thought that was what I was trying to say?

    New: £3-5 profit
    Used: £10-15+ profit

    EDIT: For the retailer not the publisher.

    It is ridiculous though. In GAME the other day I found the same title new for £14.99 and used for £14.79!
    And a lot of the used prices (expecially for new games) are right up there with play.com or amazon prices.
    BTW you could do a lot worse than Amped 3 for 360 for £18 on play.com right now.
    Edited by 1 at 26/05/06 @ 10:53

  • Mr_Brown #50 6 years ago

    Hope this is not true. And I'd be very suprised if it were. A ban like this would certainly put Gamestation out of business for a start. And Game and Blockbuster and other big chains would lose a hell of alot of business. Not to mention the effect it would have on indies.

    Nah Sony wouldn't do this, only unless they want to alienate every single retail outlet out there and there core customers.

  • SeesThroughAll #51 6 years ago

    I think all but the dumbest idiots on the internet should know by now that MS is trying to spead FUD regarding the PS3.

    Seeing as so many people are angry about the proposed price, MS are having an easy job at that.

  • coojam #52 6 years ago

    @ jamesphilp:

    I don't mean to sound like a twat lol but your maths is a bit off...

    If they sell a new game at £50 and buy it in at £37 then thats £13 profit. Minimum.

    But your point still stands that there is a better markup on preowned.

  • goku7862 #53 6 years ago

    GAME buys games at bulk prices, so the more they buy the bigger discount they have on games