Mythic slams EQII auction site

By Ellie Gibson Published 25 April, 2005

Station Exchange comes under fire from a chap who doesn't wish he thought of it first at all.

It's not even up and running yet, but Sony Online Entertainment's new Everquest II auction site has come under attack from a fellow MMORPG developer.

As we reported last week, Station Exchange is designed to let players buy and sell items, coins and characters in a secure online environment. Until now Sony has taken a firm stance against such activity but says it is launching the site to protect EQII players, all of whom are at it anyway.

Sony's rivals, however, don't seem to think it's such a good idea. In fact, in an interview with industry site Game Daily, Massive Entertainment CEO Mark Jacobs described the move as "one of the worst decisions in the history of the MMORPG industry."

"I'm disappointed with the decision from a leader in the industry to go down a path which in the past has been an anathema to them and remains so to just about every other MMORPG company," he said.

Jacobs went on to highlight what he sees as potential problems with the site, such as increased fraud, tax implications and legal difficulties, and criticised Sony for taking a percentage of all sales as a service charge. He also said that "SOE may be painting themselves into a creative corner" due to issues of item deletion and server changes.

"Will SOE have to consider now and forever the ramifications of every major change they make to the game based on the possibility that users will not only be dissatisfied on an 'entertainment level', but now will be angry from a 'financial level' as well?" he said. Probably whilst banging his fist on a table.

Jacobs also criticised Sony's argument that Station Exchange will drastically cut the workload for SOE customer services as less people will fall victim to fraudulent transactions.

"While the number of these complaints may decrease, won't SOE's representatives have to spend more time dealing with players who are seeking to monopolise the best revenue-generating spots?" he said.

"This type of behavior is already a problem in many online games and by directly tying their game systems to a real money auction system, this type of behavior is likely to increase."

Jacobs said Mythic has no plans to start messing around with such sites in the future, in case you hadn't guessed, and has already turned down opportunities to do so.

"We remain committed to keeping our games as games and not as opportunities to encourage behavior that runs counter to their spirit of creativity and entertainment.

"We will gladly 'leave money on the table' to ensure that whether or not you like our games, that they remain as that, games and not an entertainment version of day-trading," he said, before having a bit of a sit down and a few deep breaths until the steam stopped coming out of his ears.

SOE president John Smedley was quick to respond to Jacobs' comments, issuing a statement which read: "Come on then meet me outside in five minutes no blades."

Oh all right then, which read: "Unsanctioned virtual property auctions are now rampant, and will continue to grow whether or not publishers implement their own auction sites.

"It is clear to us that we have many loyal and honest players who simply don't have the time to take multiple characters through the game's higher levels of play and want a sanctioned, secure means to broaden their play experience."

Smedley went on to reaffirm SOE's prediction that the burden on customer services will be reduced by the new site, stating that all possible measures will be taken to keep things above board and that "we will not allow the gameplay experience to be hindered by unfair play, whatever form that may take."

He then explained that dedicated servers will allow players to choose whether or not they want any involvement at all with the auction site.

"When a player chooses to play on an Exchange-enabled server, they know that they will be playing with other like-minded players and that they will have the option of supplementing their own character's evolution through the Station Exchange," he said, stressing, "It will be an optional way to play our game."

So there you have it. Station Exchange = hypocritical money-grabbing exercise that will ruin the whole point of everything ever, or optional gameplay enhancement offering welcome protection from thieving online gippos? You decide.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (20) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • dickie_darko #1 7 years ago

    /Zoink... and so it begins!

  • bloke #2 7 years ago

    Option 1 :-)

  • Kami #3 7 years ago

    I've been levelling crafting in FFXI. Leathercraft and Bonework - specifically those two for one reason. Scorpion Harnesses, which use very expensive materials (Venemous Claw nearly 6 million gil alone), and if I can get Bonework to 100 and Leathercraft to 70, I should be HQ'ing these at a rate of one in five - which still leaves me with a good 6 million gil profit (normal quality Scorpion Harnesses sell at a loss - go ****ing figure!).

    Point is, I'm really gunning for this now. But I am saddened by a deeply depressing reality that most Scorpion Harness +1 in FFXI are bought outside FFXI. And they sell for in the region of $300. Point is... WHY WOULD YOU SPEND £150-odd ON A PIECE OF FANTASY F***ING ARMOUR?!?!

    Thankfully, not everyone does sell their stuff outside FFXI. But the point is, if you put the effort INTO these games, you can reap the rewards. Buying your stuff outside the game defies the point of HAVING an in-game economy. If you want something, work for it and you'll appreicate it far more than cheating and buying it with real-world cash (And in the case of a Scorps Harness, thats over a years worth of subscription fees, for one piece of armour. Pathetic, really).


    It's taken a while for the rage to start building in me over this decision. It just means inexperienced players are gonna walk around EQ2 like they own the place with all their oh-so-great equipment...

    ... just a shame that the money they spent won't do s**t to increase their actual skill and talent in-game. And sets a dangerous precedent that may possibly have far-reaching consequences for the MMORPG genre. Sony arguably have one of the biggest titles in the genre... and now they're going to do this openly. Even if no other MMORPG allows it... you can bet that more people will do it because, "Sony says it's OK!"...

    Bad show, Sony Online Entertainment. Bad show.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/05 @ 15:20

  • jellyhead #4 7 years ago

    So people don't want to level up and grow their character in a genre who's very reason to exist is to level up and grow characters!?
    Is that why he said they opened the store so people wouldn't have to bother with all that tiresome leveling up that rpg's make you do?

    o_O

  • riz23 #5 7 years ago

    Kami you make good points and I sympathise I really do. However, a large percentage of mmorpg gamers want status, in-game status. They want to be 'somebody' and they will pay for any short-cut that purports to aid them in their goal. You look on eBay and you will find dozens of items and accounts to help players in all sorts of mmorpg's. Mostly these transactions are against the T.O.S. but they happen nevertheless. When these trades go bad and they do, the victims rails against the game provider and demands action. Like SOE says, this is a large part of their customer support issues. SOE has three options in these instances, prosecute those who sell or trade in-game items in the real world, after all they go against the T.O.S. and don't deserve any help, take a laissez-faire approach and try to ignore it, or what they have now done, set up their own scam to take a piece of the action. The first two options endanger your subscription base and is not a clever move, the third creams 'em for a few more dollars. It's patently obvious which approach SOE would take..

  • terminalterror #6 7 years ago

    Notice the fact that only certain servers are 'Exchange enabled' which means if you don't like the idea, just pick a different server. If you do, then you've got servers where it is supported.

    If they introduced it for everybody I could see the problems, but as an option, I can't see anything wrong with the concept.

    It might end up being moot though as on these 'Exchange enabled' servers, all the players will either be farmers, or rich people who buy their items with real money. Won't be much fun if you end up having to spend loads of money on all your equipment just to keep up with the other players who all do the same, so it'll end up with only the insanely rich.
    Edited by 1 at 25/04/05 @ 15:52

  • Frogger #7 7 years ago

    It reminds me of the Project-Entropia (is it still up& running ?) MMO where you can buy your in-game stuff with real money. All in all, isn't that a wiser approach than setting up an auction site to do that ?

  • Kami #8 7 years ago

    Thing is, if you don't want to put in the effort, what is the point in playing a game? It's like buying a game brand-new, then using all the cheats to unlock everything. This brings us to the most arguable conclusion - if you're going to cheat, why bother playing the game in the first place?

    Thing is, I KNOW the FFXI is quite expensive, especially post-50 (and as a Ninja, I get hit doubly hard because I also still need to buy ninja tools, and right now that equates to 100,000+ gil per lvl - although I have started lvling Woodworking which means I can save gil on the staple tool, Shihei, used for blink-tanking). But there is so much a player can do in-game to make gil - BCNM40's should be ROUTINE for players at that level, and on a good run you can make 200-600k in a couple of hours. Crafting, while I admit skills cost around 500k to level them easily into the 50 range, pays dividends when you get to that point and +1 stuff starts to come as standard, and you can start to make that back and more, especially when players approach you asking you to synth their materials. Farming is also good, Crawlers drop Silk Threads which sell very nicely, and while time consuming, I know of a 10Blm who spent three weeks farming silk threads and easily made enough to buy two Astral Rings (now at 700k each). And for those with more balls than a snooker table, there's even a gambler-style BCNM50 called Treasure and Tribulations. Three chests, two are mimics (and if you spawn one, you get the **** out) and if you choose the right chest, no fight and the odds of Astral Rings from this is pretty good (As I said, Astrals sell for 700k - and if you're lucky enough to choose the right chest, by damn, for 10 seconds work, 700k is a really pretty impressive return rate!).

    I could go on and on over this. In EQ2, I've made 50 gold with no effort at all - it's almost laughably easy to make money in EQ2. Which, admittedly, I invest in my own equipment, but since it's not that hard to farm in EQ2, or even level crafting considering you get tradeskill quests to aid you, I see no reason why EQ2 needs to regulate this. Just ban the ****ing lot of 'em, I say.


    Making currency in any MMORPG isn't too taxing, provided you know your limits and are prepared to take the odd risk or two. Buying currency over the internet is a pointless exercise, because at the end of the day - you get no satisfaction from earning the item, and you're cheating and cheating yourself out of the joys of playing and pushing the in-game economy as far as you can.


    In short, it's just really unnecessary. I don't see the point. Cheaters do prosper sometimes, but at the end of the day, they are only cheating themselves...

  • Kami #9 7 years ago

    ... take it you've not played MMORPG's much then?

  • crashVoodoo #10 7 years ago

    admittedly i haven't because there is just so much mundane crap about them that bores the tits off me :/

  • AOFanboi #11 7 years ago

    <em>Notice the fact that only certain servers are 'Exchange enabled' which means if you don't like the idea, just pick a different server.</em>

    Yes, because it's not like you picked that server months ago, before this trade thingy was known, and have leveled it up and perhaps joined a guild or befriended other players or something.

    Even if you get to move the character to a non-"enabled" server, the guild will not necessarily be present there.

  • Sorb #12 7 years ago

    Thanks for the laughs Ellie :)
    Just a correction, it says Massive Entertainment in the article where it should say Mythic Entertainment. Ground Control II has nothing to do with this article but Dark Age of Camelot does :)

  • Kami #13 7 years ago

    Not really true Blah.

    Exping in FFXI requires that a party know their roles - of course, some people do get a little over-excited (Seriously, a black mage is NOT supposed to use all their MP in one battle!). Controlling Emnity (aka "Hate", basically, keeping the monsters attention on oneself at all times) requires a good team effort, people knowing how to skillchain, when to magic burst, when to voke off a ninja (I am a 55 Ninja BTW, and trust me, blink tanking is a skill that has to be LEARNED, since it's not an inherent ability that SE initially planned on. More like a "happy accident", players have pretty much made the Ninja job do far more than it was intended for initially!), when to rest and when to pull, know the right spots to exp at each stage of levelling... playing FFXI brainlessly and stupidly is more likely to get your ass kicked from a party.

    Higher lvl players need to take on tougher mobs, need to develop new strategies, learn new techniques and master skillchain timing, as well as make the most use out of their inherent job skills and different party setups - not so important at lower levels, but post-lvl 30, it gets far more important because at that point, you start learning that certain mobs require different party setups and different techniques. Tanking a set of three bats is a totally different affair from fighting one of the singular, chubbier bats - they both hit fast and have Evasion Down skills which reduce a Ninja tanks ability to dodge hits (thereby saving a shadow in the process, always important considering Utsusemi: Ichi has a recast time of 30 seconds and a cast time of about 4 seconds, while Utsusemi: Ni recast is 50 seconds, but is cast in 1.5 seconds - shadowing up AND dealing enough damage to keep the thing looking at you in the heat of a battle is not a straight-forward task by any means). But the small 3-bat groups have Jet Stream, which can wipe out shadows and still cause damage if you're unlucky, leaving the ninja exposed. You have to understand how monsters work before you can properly take them on, or you're just setting yourself up for a lot of painful exp loss.


    So yes, MMORPG's do require a certain level of skill. ESPECIALLY at higher lvls, when creatures start dishing out insane damage and you need to develop specific strategies for specific creature types. Yeah, numbers play a role - more appropriately in money matters, the better your equipment (and at 55, I've learned that equipment has to enhance my latent abilities as well as provide defence, so I have to balance the two) the smoother the ride. But don't believe for one second that at lvl 55 - and having just broken my level cap to level to 60 - that things are a walk in the park... if anything, the higher you go, the harder the game becomes, and the greater the need to think things through and play strategically.


    I know this is a pointless rant, but Blah, I don't think you've played MMORPG's to the point where you need to demonstrate a far greater understanding of not only the game, but your teammates and your own limitations. Early on, you don't require to put in much skill or thought and that I conceed to, but eventually in these kinds of games, things get decidedly more thorny and then really start pushing a players understanding of how things work. It's frustrating, annoying, and a pain in the ass... but also, quite satisfying too.

    I've only been playing FFXI a year, and it was my first MMORPG - and initally, I couldn't understand the appeal of a game with no apparant end. I am a console RPG fan - Final Fantasy 7 and 9 (yes, I purposely left 8 out), Koudelka, Grandia... that kinda thing. I happened to see the endings as the ultimate reward. So a game like FFXI, with no ending, no real start or finish, seemed really silly to me. I'm glad I stuck with it though. It's far more complicated, meaty and deeper than I initially gave it credit for. And besides, what is eight quid a month? There are people who spend that daily on ciggies!


    Summing up, yes, MMORPG's do require some level of skill. Then, we can argue that ALL games need a certain degree of skill applied to them to get the most out of them, surely?

  • Shrui #14 7 years ago

    I think this annoys me mainly on a snipey level. The stories of trying to buy a Lvl 100 char for $50 and 'all i got was this lousy gnome warrior' give me warm chuckles and saddens me to see that they will decrease. Or they would if I played any SOE games anymore.

    Knowing SOE this will be a quick way to cash in on the trading market themselves and they are only doing it with certain servers not out of any respect to their customers (which would be a first) but because they know they would lose a large chunk of their player base and therefore even more cash. After being made to look a bit crap in how they run their games in the last few years (by other MMORPG devs) this smacks slightly of desperation.

    SOE = just say no kids

  • Stilicho #15 7 years ago

    As an EQ2 player I don't have a problem with this at all. I personally will not be moving to an Exchange enabled server as I prefer to earn my status and equipment by putting the time in, but I fully understand that this approach doesn't suit everyone. With EQ2 SoE are trying to appeal to a broader audience so if people want to spend real money to buy stuff, why not legitimise the process? And make a few $ into the bargain. After all that's what SoE, Blizzard, SE et al are in the business for.

    "It just means inexperienced players are gonna walk around EQ2 like they own the place with all their oh-so-great equipment... "

    No, it doesn't. Equipment is tied to skill level. You can't use particular weapons and armour etc until the skill governing the use of same hits a certain level, and you can't buy XP, so to get to the level where you can use all this expensive kit requires you to play the game for quite some time. What SoE are doing is allowing players who want to, to purchase the best they can use at their particular level without having to spend excessive amounts of time in game making money by crafting etc.

    Kami, as a L55 Ninja you've obviously put an enormous amount of time into FFXI (I know how long it takes as I've played it myself - time is one of the reasons I gave it up - as well as the stupefyingly boring combat in the early stages and the general cutesyness of a lot of the characters) and kudos to you for your achievement, but you have to appreciate other people don't necessarily want to or have lots of time to spend crafting. Not everyone enjoys this side of MMORPGs and prefer to just play for the combat and socialising aspects. As long as SoE aren't trying to force this on all players and it doesn't have a detrimental effect on gameplay for everyone, I welcome their decision.

    At least they are giving their subscribers a choice....

  • riz23 #16 7 years ago

    I guess we reached an impasse. That's the problem with MMORPG's isn't it, they are full of bloody people and some of them have the temerity to play differently from you. It's what makes 'em great and what makes 'em frustrating. I too can't see the point in buying in-game items from an auction site, but plenty do. I hated the idea of consensual only PvP or a PvE server. This idea went back to the trammel/felucca change in UO. It softened the experience. MMORPG's should be scary and a hard slog to succeed. However, lots of people don't want to die, and they don't want to work for glory. In their eyes they pay good money to be a hero goddamnit!

  • Stilicho #17 7 years ago

    FFS, I obviously wasn't clear enough earlier.

    Simple example : Player creates character, character has a sword skill level of 10, player uses credit card to buy Sword of Massive Damage+100, player discovers his character can't actually use Sword of Massive Damage+100 because it requires a sword skill of 100. Player tries to buy sword skill of 100 with aforementioned credit card and can't because the only way to increase skill is by levelling up which is not a purchaseable item.

    Can someone please explain how this system allows "Anyone with a credit card ( that's not maxed yet) can buy their way into a game that an honest player has to grind to."

  • Kami #18 7 years ago

    Because you still have to EARN gold and platinum in SOE to buy these items from people, or spend a while harvesting and getting the materials and levelling your craft skills.

    Also, not all armour at various levels is the same. The higher the statistical benefits... the more expensive the item is in-game. Meaning more gold and plat is required for the top-notch stuff.

    Yeah, you still need to get to the levels to use armour... but it does kinda defy the point of an in-game economy if it's all being done outside the game for real money...

  • Stilicho #19 7 years ago

    Agreed, but to repeat my earlier statement, some people don't enjoy the harvesting/crafting side of these games. I don't understand why there is so much negativity against allowing people the freedom to choose. As long as it doesn't impact on the people who don't buy into it I wholeheartedly support what SoE are trying to do. And there must be quite a few people who want to play this way or it wouldn't be worth the effort on SoE's part to set up Exchange servers.

  • Kami #20 7 years ago

    If you don't want to craft, you don't HAVE to - making money in these games isn't too hard when you know how, and if you make friends you can even get their cast-offs cheap or free, and if they're a crafter - woohoo, all the better.

    I've only recently begun crafting in FFXI (Scorpion Harnesses are my ultimate goal), but I made some good allies in FFXI - one of which HQ Synthed me a Shinobi Gi +1 (Of 400,000-700,000 gil value depending on server) for free - all I had to do was provide the materials and swallow my pride if I didn't get a +1.

    In-game economies aren't just about traders and auction houses - it's about making friends, getting to know people and having fun. I understand people don't like getting into the complexities of crafting (which is their problem, it's actually quite good fun!), but still doesn't mean that they should resort to paying real-life money for a good piece of equipment, when others are more than happy to actually take the time and earn it in-game.


    It's a sad thing people do this... and it just comes down to this: I respect a person more if they actually played a game and earned their equipment and status the hard way. I wouldn't be able to respect someone who tried to buy their way through the game - it's like taking shortcuts in a marathon, the person might not get caught, look and act exhausted and come in first, but seriously - if you knew the guy had taken the shortcuts, if you knew that while everyone else had run the race normally, this person had blatantly cheated himself and everyone else... could you look the person in the eye and congratulate them?

    Of course not.
    Edited by 1 at 28/04/05 @ 15:08