25 to Life under fire again

By Ellie Gibson Published 23 June, 2005

"Rewires the brain", apparently.

Following earlier comments by a US senator that Eidos' 25 to Life "lowers common decency", TV presenter Nancy Grace has slammed the game in a panel discussion on her CNN show.

"This is what your kids will be digesting if you buy this," Grace said as game footage was shown. "One law officer after the next gunned down in the line of duty."

Prosecutor Jack Thompson described games like 25 to Life as "murder simulators", commenting: "You have to ask Bill Gates, what are you thinking?

"Here's a philanthropist and a powerful man, the richest man in the world, and yet he's making available to children around the world on Xbox a cop-killing game."

Thompson also referred to a case in Alabama where two police officers and a dispatcher were murdered "because of Grand Theft Auto", and claimed that the military uses videogames "to break down the inhibition of new recruits to kill."

But defence lawyer Dino Lombardi was less keen to point the finger, telling Grace: "People kill cops - videogames don't kill cops."

He was backed up by Debra Opri, the lawyer who represented Michael Jackson's parents during his recent trial. She accused Grace of having "used the first amendment to destroy Michael Jackson, [but] you won't use the first amendment to protect an entertainment company.

"Does anybody remember Charlie Chaplin in the early days of silent movies?" Opri continued.

"He picked on cops. He attacked cops. He was such a problem to Herbert Hoover and the FBI..."

Naturally, a shrink was on hand to offer her perspective on the issue. "When those kids are gaming and they press the button or the mouse and they actually kill somebody, there's an emotional charge that does rewire the brain," said psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall.

"A question I have with these games [is], where are the parents?"

A full transcript of the discussion is available here. 25 to Life is out on PC, PS2 and Xbox next spring.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (35) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Derblington #1 7 years ago

    Some people are pathetic.

  • Teeth #2 7 years ago

    <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/art icle.ns?id=mg18625053.200&feedId=online-news_rss20" >
    here is an article that relates to this</a>

  • #3 7 years ago

    meh, this debate is as old as the hills now, nothing will come of it.

  • the_angry_monkey #4 7 years ago

    why do we only ever see extremists on both sides?!?

    Violent games do not kill people. Violent or unstable people do, and violent or unstable people can be inspired by any number of sources. Games like this are definitely not to everyone's taste - they're certainly not to mine - and that's why I don';t buy them. It is up to parents to responsibly explain to children why they shouldn't play a game like this...if the message really sinks in - they probably won't want to play such games even when they can! People really have to step back from this

  • Markusdragon #5 7 years ago

    Once again, talk show interviewees fail to grasp the fact that videogames aren't a child-only industry anymore, and haven't been for many years now.

  • smelly #6 7 years ago

    "videogames aren't a child-only industry anymore"

    Maybe they've been playing too many censored box games...

  • Wrobel #7 7 years ago

    Its all Bill Gates Fault!, Why not blame the heads of the Gun Manufacturers instead

  • Sko #8 7 years ago

    *waits patiently for someone to trot out the tired Pacman/Trancemusic joke*

    ...damn!

  • Markusdragon #9 7 years ago

    "And tonight, a violent video game aimed at our children is all about one thing: Killing cops. It`s called "25 to Life.""

    Two mistakes in one sentence. Misinformation is fun.

  • Spin_Dr_Wolf #10 7 years ago

    "Here's a philanthropist and a powerful man, the richest man in the world, and yet he's making available to children around the world on Xbox a cop-killing game."

    Not in in europe, our governments have the sense to attempt to restrict the sale of entertainment media with dubious moral value to children.

    Except for books. Violoence is fine, if they only read about it.

  • w00t #11 7 years ago

    Ah, screw 'em.

    What are they gonna do?

    NOTHING. Too much money in games now.

    Wealthy philanthropists want to stay wealthy... and so do big corporations.

    There was going to be more to this, but I can't be arsed to waste any more time on these misinformation spreading idiots. 50 years ago and they would have been blaming commies for the disintergration of morals in our young.

    YOU ARE OUT OF TOUCH. GO HOME.

  • smelliot #12 7 years ago

    "When those kids are gaming and they press the button or the mouse and they actually kill somebody."

    Since when has someone actually died from being shot in a videogame?

  • Darth_Flibble #13 7 years ago

    I've seen the name Jack Thompson before, he runs some anti-computer game web site and the c*** rag has no clue what he is talking about

  • valli #14 7 years ago

    Prosecutor Jack Thompson

    Does he represent anyone/a group? I'm quite curious about who has the hand up this dummy's ass, apart from the mighty dollar sign.

  • Freek #15 7 years ago

    Why doesn't anybody ask us? I grew up with gaming and those "murder simulations" (Mortal Kombat, FPS games, Doom, Goldeneye etc). Don't have any urge to kill people. Nobody interviews us for these things, at most a few throwaway quotes from a games journalist trying to bring some sanity to it all, like a tree trying desparetly to stop an avalance of hyberbols and exadurations.

    Infact I've actaully fired a gun, went clay pidgoen shooting with my dad a few years ago. It's nothing like pointing your mouse and pressing the button.

  • ecureuil #16 7 years ago

    Why is it that every article about GTA, about this, about any violent videogame they always state "Manhunt must be banned because it's showing children how to murder people with a plastic bag" and "look at how GTA is teaching our kids to kill prostitutes" and now "25 to Life, aimed at teaching our kids to kill cops." Will someone just, somehow, make it perfectly clear that THESE GAMES ARE ADULT RATED AND NOT AIMED AT CHILDREN. There are movies that have graphical violence that far surpasses that of any game, and they are rightly 18-rated. So why don't these people moan about how Kill Bill should be banned because it's teaching children to kill people with a samurai sword? These idiots need to realise and accept that videogames are not just for kids. They're no longer "hey lets put Mario on for the children to keep them quiet while we watch Antiques Roadshow." Videogames are still being seen as a childs playtoy, and rather than "adult" games giving them a more mature image, they're just forcing clueless tossers like these to come and talk about how we're selling violence to kids.

  • Xerx3s #17 7 years ago

    "This is what your kids will be digesting if you buy this," - Well, that makes it clear eh? Let me refraise that; "WHEN YOU BUY THIS!". In other words, parents, DONT buy games that are rated MATURE for CHILDREN and then blaim YOUR FAULT on GAMES!

    Further, perhaps, and this is just an idea, you STUPID YANKS should STOP selling WEAPONS on every corner of the street! Maybe its not the games at all, but your stupid retarded patriotistic laws that where written down by some rebel twats. Why do you need guns? To shoot cops? [...] You yanks have, what, 260 million citizens? Yet you have 10000 murders a year! We almost double your population in Europe and yet we dont get anything NEAR that number.

    Ahh well, i guess that thats the entire problem with you twats eh? Always blaiming eveyrthing, except yourself. I mean, its impossible that your doing the wrong thing right? Thinking that would be not patriotistic.

    There is hope. Maybe, just maybe, you will learn the way the things should be. Maybe, you will actually start to use your brain. But then again, you obvisouly need +- 2000 years of civilisation before you get to our lvl.
    Edited by 1 at 23/06/05 @ 19:41

  • danjfor #18 7 years ago

    "And this video machine is being marketed and sold."

    Ban these new-fangled video machines!

  • #19 7 years ago

    someone who is going to unleash that amount of racially questionable vitriol such as 'stupid yanks' should make damn sure they spell their rant correctly.

    hypocrisy is rife eh?

  • The-Bodybuilder #20 7 years ago

    >""This is what your kids will be digesting if you buy this," Grace said as game footage was shown. "One law officer after the next gunned down in the line of duty."
    I guess I'm the only one that found this hilarious.

    Anyways, no need to worry about these twats.
    By the next generation of children (when this generation of people will be in power), they will be long gone.
    It's like the whole rock music and hiphop thing. When they first came out, they were attacked constantly by the generation in power. But now the current generation (that grew up living to rock music) don't give a damn.

    The next generation of leaders (the generation of today) will most likely have played games, and will know the difference.

  • Mint #21 7 years ago

    She might have some kind of a point about the cop-killing thing (lost somewhere in all the bile and vitriol, mind)

    The rest of this rant is just the same old shite.

  • knif3r #22 7 years ago

    It's all true - just look at my nick - never would have chosen it when I was playing Sonic and Mario!!!!

    I'm a lost cause...

  • eleven63 #23 7 years ago

    coming from a country that has enough guns in circulation for every citizen, this is just a little rich - save a hundred thousand lives a year, ban guns.

  • wolfen #24 7 years ago

    And when those kids are gaming and they press the button or the mouse and they actually kill somebody

    Wasn't this the idea of the government sponsored America's Army?

  • belziah #25 7 years ago

    americans aren't a race

    ignorance is rife, eh?

    /lights crack pipe
    Edited by 1 at 23/06/05 @ 23:24

  • dk_rare #26 7 years ago

    Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!?!

    Meh, the simpsons quote isn't as ironic in text.

  • Zuiyo #27 7 years ago

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

  • bionutz #28 7 years ago

    Commenting the fond of the article simply makes no sense anymore. We should just ignore these illiterate people. Whether it's on CNN or a second hand level television is still a show for the people willing to waste their time in front of tv's not watching something enriching. So easy to make a judgement without knowing what this is about!
    Just wanted to say: it's not Gates the richest man in the world but the guy to whom Ikea belongs.

  • #29 7 years ago

    DON'T BUY (OR SELL) THE FUCKING GAME TO KIDS...


    It's not fucking hard is it!

  • Psi #30 7 years ago

    Yay! If you have a headache,... cut off the head!!!

    Maybe the parents should try playing the offending game and seeing if they feel like going on a murder spree afterwards. I mean they were kids once... they must remember the constant need for murder spree's. In fact at 27 I still feel them once in a while.

    If anyone needs me I'll be up on the nearest clock tower....


    Murder in a video game is wrong but when your leader sends teenagers over to another country to kill for oil interests it's right.... pinch me im stuck in a crazy dream world.

  • presh #31 7 years ago

    Also, to broaden the intellectual basis of this debate, it's really not a very good game anyway.

    /gets coat

  • Zuiyo #32 7 years ago

    Maybe we should tell them there is a patch which changes the cops into Iraq rebels. Then, no one would complain and they would say US youth is getting ready to serve their country.

    Man.

    This is SO OBVIOUSLY a publicity stunt. It makes me yawn... they have learnt the "Manhunt" lesson very well.

  • Grunk #33 7 years ago

    I would like them to scan the brains of people playing or watching soccer, or going to a job interview, or going snowboarding (I'm up for a brain scan if anyone want's to send me to whistler for a bit).

    I have a feeling there are probably many other things which cause the violent brain waves.

    As for 're-wiring' the brain I'm sure the 'wires' are all already there

  • ali-uk #34 7 years ago

    San Andreas owns Jack Thompson's lief!

  • Psi #35 7 years ago

    i dunno about games making you violent but if that cu nt across the office doesn't stop whistling the theme to 'murder she wrote' I'm gonna stamp on his neck till his legs stop moving then burn the swine in the car park.

    bbl need to play games to calm down

  • the_angry_monkey #36 7 years ago

    Wasn't this the idea of the government sponsored America's Army?

    FUCK that's a good point. Don't even get me started on that piece of propaganda shit.... but then in that you're only killing arabs so it's ok. Equally - noone complains about the gunning down of terrorists or criminals or for that matter playing as Germans in WWII sims. I mean ffs!

    Some good articles on the subject

    http://www.n isute.com/article.php?id=107
    http://www.ni sute.com/article.php?id=93

  • #37 7 years ago

    Reading the 2004 report issued by theESA [theesa.com](Entertainment Software Association) it claims some 92% of parents are present at the time games are purchased or rented. Additionally, some 87% of children get parental permission before purchasing or renting a video game.

    ...amd this just in from Sherlock Homes... It's the parents that are allowing these kids to buy games they shouldn't have...

    DUMB FUCKERS!