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Xbox 360 News by Ellie Gibson
Dan Greenawalt, lead designer on Xbox 360 racer Forza Motorsport, has revealed all sorts of interesting info about the game - including the fact that it'll feature a Project Gotham Racing-style TV mode.
It's all thanks to a new partnership between Forza developer Turn 10 and Bizarre, the studio behind the PGR series. Speaking in an interview with XboxWorld, Greenawalt said: "We are constantly redefining what it means to be an online racing game. However, we are also sharing technology. This means we are able to leverage the power of both teams."
With Forza Motorsport TV, "You won't just be watching a bunch of Ferraris racing together - you'll be watching completely customised Ferraris racing in a simulation environment... Paint schemes and physics mastery add to the excitement and diversity of the telecasts."
And like PGR3, Forza 2 will feature a Photo Mode, so you can take in-game pictures of your car. "If there was one thing I felt was a missed opportunity for PGR3's Photo Mode it was that you couldn't take those cool images you spent ages tweaking to print out, email or use as desktop wallpaper," said Greenawalt.
So will you be able to do those things with Forza 2? "We're not going into details right now about what happens to photos after the player has snapped them. I'll just say we're always looking for more ways to get players to go to the community site," he added rather uncryptically.
Forza 2 will feature more than 65 tracks across 18 environments, including 13 real-world licensed circuits such as Silverstone, Tsukuba, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca and the Road America race track. There are four all-new licensed tracks including Sebring International Raceway.
Turn 10 is busy "improving and expanding Drivatar Technology to give even more personality and realism to the opponent AI" - apparently, "The AI you face in Forza Motorsport 2 will have names and personalities that were specifically trained/created by the designers.
"Some will be fast, but tentative in traffic. Others will take slower lines, but will be more aggressive toward other cars. By giving them names, the players will be able to recognise the fast and the dangerous drivers from the field."
Other bits of info include news that the game will work with the Xbox 360 wireless racing wheel, that you'll have a bonnet view option, and that up to 12 cars will be able to race at once over Xbox Live. You can expect exciting new physics and damage effects and more dramatic crashes - but as for weather effects, "Not at this stage," apparently.
As for when the game's out... "We are still aiming for a Holiday 2006 release and at this stage things are on track."
But "Game development is never easy - especially on a title as big as Forza Motorsport," Greenawalt said.
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"So will you be able to do those things with Forza 2? "We're not going into details right now about what happens to photos after the player has snapped them. I'll just say we're always looking for more ways to get players to go to the community site," he added rather uncryptically."
Hmm, is this something to do with Live Anywhere I wonder? Access Live account photos thru MSN to print and use as display pics, yum! |
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I loved the first game and I'm really looking forward to the 360 sequel especially as it not only promises to be bigger and better but it's going to run at 60 fps ingame with physics calculated at 180 fps (hopefully that means without tearing a la MotoGP '06!!!). Even PGR 3 couldn't manage that... well it couldn't even manage 30fps at 720p either.
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jack_klugman
21/06/06 @ 16:16
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Photo mode a rip off of GT4?
Maybe. But equally if GTA4 used it and Forza didn't you could just claim Forza was lacking. |
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@Rambaldi
"Blackdog's".... the new name for Sony fanboys. Massively looking forward to this one, can't wait to jump back into my Honda NSX... Forza was just brilliant, hope this one can live up to the standards set by the original. Shame it does'nt sound like there's going to be an 'in-car' view, which would have been perfect for this game. Interesting news about the partnership with Bizarre, good move for both franchises. |
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@baz-dude, you have got it wrong mate, in GT4 you had a large range of tires e.g. simulation road tires, soft and hard conpounds right up to super sof compounds which would wear out within 2 laps, to choose from, different levels of clutch plates, flywheels, racing chips, gear ratios, basic LSD;s up to professional level LSD's, weight reduction levels, I could go on, but i think you get the point, and other things, someone said that GT went out with GT2, well the level of immersion with GT reached another level when the DFP wheel was created. has anyone experienced violent levels of feedback with the wheel? But there are some things that Forza does a whole lot better that GT and one of them is the 'suggested line' which in all honesty something all racing games should have as standard. a player can really learn about drivers racing lines with that teaching tool. the number of times that i have had my jaw drop to the floor is amazing. if they can deliver a product that has a wheel to match the physics engine then my day will be made. For me of all the GT's the 1st and th 3rd were the most enjoyable.
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He's a sad cunt is what he is. Gran Tursimo 4 my arse. Read this Blackdog, IT'S A DEATHLY DULL GAME. I loved Gran Turismo back in the day, but the series has stagnated since 1997. I still feel like I'm playing the same game, only with better graphics and more cups. Forza Motorsport was a welcome breath of fresh air.
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Inquisitor
[mod]
21/06/06 @ 21:41
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I've been looking at getting Forza for a while, but its probably too realistic for me. I have a hard enough time keeping cars on the track in PGR 2, and thats not at all realistic. I much prefer the crazy physics of Rallisport Challenge, some of those crashes are just sick! (slaps self for using the word 'sick' in that context).
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@blackdog
The bike game from the makers of GT4 you are referring to is Tourist Trophy, out now. Anyone who denies that when GT3 came out it was phenomenal is a fool...the graphics were revolutionary even if the gameplay was not. GT4, however, was just more of the same...thought the dudes that jump out in front during rallies were cool. Forza has long ago taken GT's crown. |
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@Inquisitor
Without spinning off into a Forza fanboy rant, here is one of the MANY reasons why it lapped the Gran Turismo series a long time ago (to riff off coojam's sentiment). Even though it is a sim racer, in many ways, it is the ultimate example of Microsoft's vision for the future of games. Customisation. Play it any way YOU want to. It's all about risk and reward. The more you risk, the bigger your reward. But, if you aren't into the whole hardcore thing, here's what you do mate. Go into the Set Difficulty submenu in Career. Turn on ABS, TCM and STM. Turn on the racing line. Set opponents to Easy. Manual gearing. Damage to cosmetic. Etc, etc. Believe me, with all this on, you're not really at PGR level - it is a sim game after all - but it should be a fair bit more manageable for somebody that doesn't want to take game TOO seriously. Of course, you'll earn virtually nothing in terms of bonus difficulty Credits, as opposed to the player that turns most systems on, earning an additional 25-100% of the winnings in the process, on top of the basic prize fund. But as I said, risk-reward. Choice. For you see, Forza goes out of its way not to alienate any type of gamer, but instead does its best to appeal to all persuasions. That's but one reason why it destroys Gran Turismo. Buy it. You won't regret it.
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i think @inquisitor is not really skilled in the art of racing. But i do agree with a lot of the comments @albundy. when i am playing the game i switch do the following... manual gears, normal to hard settings, sim damage and all the things that can make me really concentrate. And it is a really difficult game when all the aids are switched off. but at the same time, it does take away a bit of the driving pleasure. And this is personal, the driving 'pleasure' aspect of GT4 is what i really enjoy. I remember a copy of EDGE mag saying this about GT franchise "it is about you, the track and the car" nothing else.
Where FM wnts to take the player is to the community of car obsessed folk. and for that it does it superbly. My biggest let down in Forza are the replays. they do not have the visual kick that GT4 has. but then again the FM franchise seems to take innovation to a new level. e.g. the telemetry. now that really is something i have to say. It will be really interesting and exciting to see the level of detail in FM2. oh BTW if you listen to major nelson's podcast "the one with the 3 interviews" he interviews the FM team or rather a couple of the guys and they candidly praise the GT franchise. oh and before i forget, there will be a lamborghini in the FM2. which one they did not say, but subscribe and listen to it via iTMS podcast. |
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@chronom4n-
Ahh yes your right, i was more or less indicating the actual customisation of the visual appearance but GT does have alot of engine customisation. I enjoyed GT4 but i found that GT3 was a bit dissapointing as you could drive around the wall at full speed which made turning not required for those city tracks ;-) |
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Well, I am all ready for the Sony fanboy allegations and rantings, and I even enjoy them, so bring them on! I am already having second thoughts about jumping in, since this is a Microsoft thread where only one mode or worship seems to be allowed and everyone not bowed down before a Bill Gates statue 'has a PS2 up his ass' or 'is a cunt'. How healthy.
At the outset I admit that Forza is a better overall deal than GT4, there is no denying that. But you guys don't sound like Forza fanboys - rather, MICROSOFT fanboys. Now there is no denying that Forza gets many crucial things right over GT, but in no way does it 'DESTROY' or "LAP' GT4, IMHO. GT4 was severely crippled by PS2's hardware limitations, not to mention Polyphony's stubborn refusal to improve the AI. It has got its own subtle atmosphere and it no doubt can strike many as dull and boring, but it is also rewarding to those who put long hours into it. Forza was based on the template of GT4 (as admitted by its design team) and it was easy for the team to correct the glaring shortfalls of the GT series. However, now they are lifting of photo mode (GT4 lets you save your photos on a USB and 1280x1024) and touting it like it never happened. And try telling me that Forza (1) looks better than GT4. Thing is, both games get some things right, both have insane levels of customization (unlike what some might think) and Forza is preferable because of its better AI and online modes. However, to praise it should not mean terming GT4 a total waste. What is even more pathetic is that you guys have DECIDED that any GT on PS3 can't be any good. How narrow-minded is that? The two games (Forza 2 and GT5) aren't even out yet.
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most recently on 22/06/06 @ 06:24
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MrGrumpy.au
22/06/06 @ 07:48
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Photo mode a rip off of GT4?
Rofl! I think you mean "GT4 Photo mode a rip off of SegaGT 2002". |
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MrGrumpy.au
22/06/06 @ 08:08
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So anyway, why no weather?
Probably because they are scared of losing the casual market (increase in difficulty). Now if Gran Turismo or Forza used Grand Prix 4 style weather effects that would be awesome. |
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@talha! gald to see you again. I was wondering where you were? A few things you have got right and they are 1- yes, the Forza used the GT4 template and it was more or less given to them on a plate as to what needed to improve. 2- GT4 has it own type of AI. by that i mean depending on the type of car/power/level of skill that is being used by the player, it is either easy or considerably difficult to beat the AI. GT4 makes you work real hard at trying to come first and when you are rewarded, it does become a pleasure because you know that all the long hours you have put it has paid off. 3- What people forget is that the PS2 has, and @talha ha pointed this out clearly, that the PS2 is crippled by its hardware limitations. If the PD guys had concentrated on the aspects where lets say the AI was improved, I feel that the visual quality would have been reduced. 5- GT4 allows you to save to USB and also print out via an EPSON printer which i have used a few times. Good stuff if you are a budding photographer. 6 - where people are enjoying the customisation on the visual side of Forza, GT players are enjoying the driving pleasure that GT allows. But for me and i will reiterate this again.... IF the creators of Forza can create a steering wheel like the DFP and make it just as good if not better, only then can i say that they have really made a GT beater, not saying that the DS2 or Controller 'S' are bad controllers, but for the 'real' deal that is where for me enjoying driving games lies.
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king_skins
22/06/06 @ 10:02
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Talha: now they are lifting of photo mode (GT4 lets you save your photos on a USB and 1280x1024) and touting it like it never happened
I think you'll find they have refered to the GT4 and PGR3 photo modes quite often in interviews and have never made out that they invented it, as you are suggesting. What they are saying is that no other game has ever needed it as much as Forza. And if you go and checkout forzacentral.com you can see why, there are thuosands of photos taken of peoples TV screens showing off the paint jobs they have done on their cars. I am already having second thoughts about jumping in, since this is a Microsoft thread where only one mode or worship seems to be allowed and everyone not bowed down before a Bill Gates statue 'has a PS2 up his ass' or 'is a cunt'. How healthy This hounding of blackdog is not because of his posts on this thread, but his blatant sony fanboyism on every other thread invloling 360/PS3. Althought its still not nice. What is even more pathetic is that you guys have DECIDED that any GT on PS3 can't be any good. How narrow-minded is that? The two games (Forza 2 and GT5) aren't even out yet. Not one mention of GT5 has been made in this thread, they have even been really nice and not mentioned GT HD. All comparisons have been GT4 Vs Forza1. Thing is, both games get some things right, both have insane levels of customization (unlike what some might think) and Forza is preferable because of its better AI and online modes. The customization that the Forza guys are always on about is the car painting and body kits rather than the mods and upgrades you can apply to your cars engine. And try telling me that Forza (1) looks better than GT4 ;) Well, owning both. I prefer Forza for the car body kits, ability to paint your car and the cars are chunkier, in GT they just seam really thin like cardboard cutouts. Although GT still has good graphics and they have loads of cool little tricks going on to make things appear more detailed and realistic than they actually are.
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most recently on 22/06/06 @ 11:11
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king_skins
22/06/06 @ 10:06
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@ blackdog: 7/10 in Edge for Tourist Trophy. And I think you will see motor bikes in GT5 if GT HD is anything to go by.
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most recently on 22/06/06 @ 11:07
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MrChuckles
22/06/06 @ 10:11
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GT1 great game, GT2, very similar to GT1, was a disappointment, GT3 very similar to GT2, bored now, GT4...yawn.
PGR2 great game, PGR3 a lot worse than PGR2 IMO. Forza Motorsport, good game, current best. No, i'm not a Sony, Nintendo or M$ fanboy. |
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@chronom4n: Hello, nice post man. All I did was highlight the positive aspects of both games. Actually to enjoy both games you have to put in long hours doing the same thing again and again with slight variations. For me, it is very difficult that GT4 might sound dull to someone and not Forza. But then again, everyone has their own taste.
@king_skins: First of all, I really appreciate a well-considered, objective reply and the effort you put in to answer my post - you don't find that kind of a response very often round these parts. Second, I am not implying that photo mode originally appeared only in GT4, and yes, Forza team never claimed inventing it. It is just that you get that impresson from reading some of the posts above. Third, I admit that I ignored the visual customization options in Forza completely, and that is my bad, for they make a photo mode absolutely vital. Thing is, your reasoning is based almost solely on visual upgrades, while many posts above have not been that objective or fair, as you'll see. It was THAT that I was responding to. As for looks, I agree with you as well - GT4 may look slightly better overall, but car customization in Forza gives it the edge. But since I am not such a big fan of car customization, my thoughts on the subject were skewed. My point is that there being so little visual difference between both (no matter which one you like better) is a stunning achievement on PS2, given its poor processing power. Yes there was no mention of GT5, but the general tone in many comments was that it wil always be Forza all the way. And yes, they have broken records of decency by not mentioning GT HD. ;-) Lastly, the hounding of Black Dog (dog - hound - hounding - geddit?? LOLLL!!!!) makes for interesting reading. It is true sadly that there are many characters similar to him in the Sony camp while relatively few in the MS camp. Still, as you said, it is not nice! But then, he doesn't make it any easier on himself. |
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Inquisitor
[mod]
22/06/06 @ 10:57
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Yea its true, I'm a very bad driver when it comes to games (I'm far better in real life, honestly). I think Forza's visable racing lines could really help me out in that respect though, I'll probably get it soon, if my xbox hasn't died on me by then that is.
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@Tahla
You make good points about GT4 being a lot closer to FM than us fans of the latter are admitting. Of course we know that it (GT4) is a very good game. It is the best in the series, and considering how revolutionary we all thought GT3 was at the time, that makes GT4 positively goldust. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still more or less the same game as GT1, when you boil it all down. Of course, I jest when I say this. If you were to play the two side-by-side, you could probably spot tons of improvements. However, the problem is for people that have been with gT this whole time. If you are fresh to videogames in general, and were given Forza and GT4, Forza would still be superior, but you would walk away thinking that GT4 is a pretty good, if slightly lesser alternative. However. If you've been playing GT since whenever, the conclusion cannot be escpaed that GT4 is just a dull retread, with an anal amount of cars. FM simply blew the GT franchise out of the water, in terms of innovating withing GT's self-created CaRPG genre. I'm going to start feature-spotting. But that difficulty scenario that I spoke to Inquisitor about is an acute example of how it's seeking to expand beyond the now-standard GT4 template. In conclusion, and this is a slightly unfair analogy towards GT4, but in my opinion, it is to FM what Fifa is to Pro Evo. |
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@inquisitor, that was the point more or less with the visible racing line. I think EDGE actually gave it a recommendation or something like that saying how clever that piece of coding is. The clever point of that is that it adjusts 99% of the point of the time to your car set-ups. @talha, i agree with you in that how anyone can find GT4 dull is beyond me as well. I have spent many hours in the endurance section of the GT franchise. One of the things that GT has always emphasised is that if you love cars and by that, they mean throughout history you will love this game. what forza does not have is cars from the old skool. forza only seems to deal with fast cars and not the heritage of cars that GT4 offers. I got so frustrated with the tuning side of forza. i.e. before the start of a race, i am unable to tune the car set-up and i have to go back and forth on the menu screens. In GT4 you can do that directly before a race. so in some ways forza in frustrating. but it seems that FM rewards the driver in more ways that one. also the way i n which cars are rewarded to you is less pleasurable in forza. by that i mean it tells you which car you are going to win. that for me kills it a bit. in terms of looks. i think that GT3&4 were gobsmackingly good on the visual side especially the dyamic replays. i usually look forward to watching the replays but with fm there is no pleasure in watching it. apart from watching the disc brakes heat up and slowly cool down. now that part i really like. i just hope that the PD guys given the new PS3 will do the GT franchise and do it justice in every aspect.
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Lastly, the hounding of Black Dog (dog - hound - hounding - geddit?? LOLLL!!!!) makes for interesting reading. It is true sadly that there are many characters similar to him in the Sony camp while relatively few in the MS camp. Still, as you said, it is not nice! But then, he doesn't make it any easier on himself.
That's because they feel threatended that PlayStation may no longer be top dog (pun intended!) in its third generation. Without getting drawn into a console willy-waving contest here, the Xbox 360 is cheaper, is more or less as powerful, has an unrivalled online service at the time of writing, has an (arguably) better controller and has a batch of first party exclusives looming on the horizon that may even be able to rival the PlayStation's Resident Evil 2-Metal Gear Solid-Gran Turismo-Final Fintasy VII-Tekken 3-Wipeout 2097 axis of the 1990's. That's why Sony fanboys are probably a lot more fanatical in their gospelising than Microsoft one's. Maybe they're making up for something? :)
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most recently on 22/06/06 @ 12:29
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king_skins
22/06/06 @ 11:39
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@ chronom4n: I got so frustrated with the tuning side of forza. i.e. before the start of a race, i am unable to tune the car set-up and i have to go back and forth on the menu screens. In GT4 you can do that directly before a race. so in some ways forza in frustrating.
I think there are problems with both games interfaces. The GT4 one drives me insane trying to find races I can enter my newly bought car into. While Forza & GT4 both don't allow you to switch to a different car while you are navigating and looking for races. Although forza will allow you to if you car doesn't match a criteria of the race you want to enter but if it does you can't quickly switch. And the inability for you to tune or change the upgrades you have applied (i.e. remove a turbo to bring your car down a class) to your car before a race is very annoying in forza. |
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@albundy: I get your point - I only played GT 3 and that too, fleetingly, before playing GT4, so it might have appeared to me far better than for someone who is at it since the original GT. All your points are valid except for that analogy that you yourself consider unfair, so it is hard to digest. All things considered, I still feel a slight biasedness towards GT because it strikes me somewhere where Forza can't reach, despite it beating GT hands down in terms of features and AI.
As chronom4n points out, GT4 expanded the horizon to the whole heritage of cars and for many (myself included) the main attraction was to buy the clunker that you already have (not many of us have Ferraris, you see!) in real life and try to beat the game with it. So in a way the two games are different - of course I said exactly the opposite a few posts ago but hey, that's what goes around in these threads!! As for Playstation fans, I am one too, simply for the reason that I own a PS2 (which I bought four years ago over an XBox only because of its gaming library) and for me at least, between my good-ish gaming PC and PS2, the titles on the Xbox360 aren't all that attractive. That might change fast of course, but things will only become clear once the PS3 is released and a few months have passed - only then we will learn whether the tradition of PS2's glorious library has carried well to PS3 or whether X360 has it beat. Till that time, I think it is time for one-track fanboys on both sides (and make no mistake, there are plenty on the XBox side as well) should shut up and just enjoy the games they can play now. |
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