Female clans launch protest

By Ellie Gibson Published 20 June, 2006

Against gaming beauty contest.

Two all-female gaming clans are protesting against a new beauty contest which they say could damage the way women gamers are perceived.

The winner of the Miss World Series Videogames contest will receive $1000, a contract to appear at all WSCG events, and will be featured in a forthcoming game. The only gaming-related entry requirement is that entrants state what their favourite game is.

Both the US Frag Dolls and the PMS clan are boycotting the contest - and have decided to hold their own Mr WSVG competition in protest.

"It's not really a videogamer [who'll be crowned]. It's a model," PMS co-founder Amber Dalton told US newspaper The Courier-Journal.

Ubisoft's Morgan Romine, who's in charge of marketing the US Frag Dolls, said it's important to "fight the perception that we're booth babes," adding: "We're gamers first. We felt that this [beauty contest] was threatening that."

In a post on the Frag Dolls' website, 'Valkyrie' also defended their position, writing: "What the heck is this crap? How is a Miss WSVG being crowned based on a beauty contest and has nothing to do with gaming?

"Why not re-evaluate this contest and do something that would make this event more positive, like have a real contest for girl gamers based on all things: a complete package that includes gaming skill and knowledge."

The WSVG aren't too happy with the ladies' antics - or the fact that they're planning to hold another Mr WSVG contest in Dallas to protest against the next Miss WSVG regional final. "If this happens, and in order to be fair, the WSVG may feel compelled to run another Miss WSVG competition as well," the company said in a statement.

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (85) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Darkedge #1 6 years ago

    it is stupid and sexist - they really should be a gamer not just a booth babe.
    Mind you I thought the Frag dolls were just a marketing exercise by some hardware company anyway..

  • Grim... #2 6 years ago

    No, it's Ubisoft, a software company.

    Anyway, I assume the winner will be decided by some Halo2 deathmatch?
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 13:28

  • #3 6 years ago

    This news story should be locked, stat!

  • SgtJericho #4 6 years ago

    As much as I love the Fragdolls, and there is no doubting their gaming skill and knowledge whatsoever, they are UbiPuppets....
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 13:32

  • EmiliasHorse #5 6 years ago

    Am I wrong to not give a toss one way or the other?

  • marilena #6 6 years ago

    Quite ironic that the Fragdolls of all people are upset about this. It seems to be quite similar to what they are doing, even though it's true that they are gamers. If you look at them you will have no doubt that looks were taken into account when Ubi selected them.

  • regmund #7 6 years ago

    i saw the uk Frag Dolls on gamer.tv once. They did not strike me as active video game players or being particularly intelligent. Quite the opposite in fact.

  • Carpathian #8 6 years ago

    The nature of true sexual equality and true democracy is that if women wish to enter the contest then they should and if others think it's wrong then they're free to protest equally as much.

    Totally true that the contest is a shoddy idea that's easily hijacked by somebody who only knows of one game title they've read about but the fact remains the same.

  • neuroniky #9 6 years ago

    Emh... bring the booth babes!

  • smoison #10 6 years ago

    Girl gamers,

    LOL



  • strangeed #11 6 years ago

    I hope WarKitty or someone eats you alive smoison

  • Wrestlevania #12 6 years ago

    As much of a fan of the female form as I am, I still think this is an utterly irrelevant marketing platform and nothing more. However, Frag Dolls et al are doing a grand job of drumming up publicity for this thing.

    Probably would've been best just to ignore the whole charade entirely. I doubt very much that anyone in their right mind would take it as being 100% credible at face value (pun intended).

  • Thamuhacha #13 6 years ago

    They'd have been better off if they had offered to play the finalists at something

  • reality_cheque #14 6 years ago

    @strangeed: Nah, she'd probably just ignore him like the insecure fool that he is :)

    So how do I enter this Mr WSVG contest then? And do I get to meet Meredith or Catherine from the Miss WSVG comp if I win?

  • Hunamster #15 6 years ago

    That Woolsey chick is pretty hot

    /votes for her

  • smoothpete #16 6 years ago

    It's quite shit that such a contest even exists, but the fragdolls are the last people who should be complaining about it. "We want equality for women in games so we're going to form an all girls clan with corporate backing". Fuck off.

  • Hunamster #17 6 years ago

    The way i see it, these girls are hot, and they want to show people that theyn are hot, so they enter a contest. Its up to them, you dont like it, go elsewhere. Its not like they are being forced into it shotgun style are they, and they know its gonna be seen by a bunch of gamers.

    Sigh, want cant people just let others have some fun once in a while.

  • rogermellie #18 6 years ago

    If they want to be treated seriously then I suggest they drop the all female clan marketing tags and play on-line against men. :-)

  • Rociel #19 6 years ago

    Aw. Girls trying to protest? Isn't that precious?

  • Drakron #20 6 years ago

    What is worst?

    Being a corporate whore or entering a beauty contest.

  • Owain #21 6 years ago

    Its a bit of a step back for pro-gaming, hmm im not into it, but theres some people who do see as a proper sport, now if there was an offical miss olympics or something along those lines there would be uproar.

  • KingOfSpain #22 6 years ago

    If I wanted to join the Fragdolls, could I?

    No i couldnt. so fuck off.

    At least they are not EA puppets eh?

  • gaijin #23 6 years ago

    Xiphos - "online clans will be a mix of both male and female by default "

    absolutely, and so they should be. Which is what makes the FragDolls "yeah we're first and foremost gamers, but oops, we all just happen to be what is commonly regarded as aesthetically pleasing, although I'm sure we can't have been selected on that basis, despite the frequent photoshoots and PRs we have to do for our sponsors" thing is quite as annoying as it is - there's nothing natural, organic or by default about it, and it's disingenous to argue otherwise.


  • Drakron #24 6 years ago

    Other beauty contests are still around too.

    We dont have to look at this from the prepective of the female gamer, stereotypes exist and will consider to exist or you think women dont look at men using stereotypes ... that we all drink beer, like sport and are useless in the kitchen outside taking the garbage out.

    This is funny because we see corporate sponsored female only clans complaining about a beauty contest, who does more to continue the stereotype that women are not gamers?

    Perhaps someone needs to look for the definition of "equality" ...

    Oh and Rui is not a girls name damn it.
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 14:50

  • wolfblitzer #25 6 years ago

    Who cares,
    Fuck the Fragdolls.
    It seems to me they are just trying to get atenttion.
    How do they represent feamale gamers?
    Is like a CSS clan trying to represent all the male gamers,it makes no sense.

  • JonFE #26 6 years ago

    Can you blame them, tho'? Out of 11 participants, only 3 bothered to list a favorite video game...

  • tenma #27 6 years ago

    It's kind of ironic that the Frag dolls are protesting the exploitation of beauty in the gaming sphere seeing as that's exactly what they embody.

  • Kostabi #28 6 years ago

    Wow, a clan of Ubisoft marketed girls protesting a beauty contest?

    I suppose the Fragdolls just camp near the oven in cs_militia.

  • PearOfAnguish #29 6 years ago

    A more important question is why these girls are wasting time playing games when they should be in the kitchen cooking dinner for their husbands or boyfriends.

  • BBIAJ #30 6 years ago

    regmund

    i saw the uk Frag Dolls on gamer.tv once. They did not strike me as active video game players or being particularly intelligent. Quite the opposite in fact.

    Hey, I resent that remark!

    FragDoll Kitt FDUK is quite the opposite of both! I should know, we used to post on the same forum years ago, before the whole FragDolls thing started.

  • MrGrumpy.au #31 6 years ago

    I'm not suprised one bit, anyone could realise companies didn't care about their gaming skills at all but the old "sex sells" skills are more important to the marketers.

    Just listen to the Major Nelson podcast (#171) where he interevied the PMS clan and finished it off by attempting to organise a mud wrestling match between the PMS clan vs Frag Dolls.

    Girl gaming is not really the companies main aim, rather it be 12-18 year old boys gushing over playing girls/ladies online.

    /rolls eyes

  • projectmayhem #32 6 years ago

    please, the fragdolls were picked because they're eye candy and will sell t-shirts and shit... not because they're amazing gamers.

    anyone would be a good gamer if they were paid to practise daily.

  • Riggers #33 6 years ago

    "NEWSFLASH - Women think games are pointless and boring - don't tend to play them so much."

    True, many women have that opinion, but not all. A sizable number are getting into games, and that number will only grow as gaming becomes increasingly accepted in general. Let's not forget that until the Playstation generation, games were generally seen as the domain of either children or geeks - even now, you'll come across people with that view, both male and female. Contests like this do little to challenge this perception; it perpetuates the impression that the games industry is catering for spotty teenage boys. Plus the title of the competition is misleading; it suggests that the competitors will be judged on gaming skill rather than looks, when it's the opposite.

    That said, if it was judged on gaming prowess alone, I'd still think it was sexist. It'd suggest that girls can't compete on a level playing field with men, which is patently bollocks. All girl clans? I don't get them either - you can't demand equality, then exclude men on the grounds of gender.





  • morriss #34 6 years ago

    Dey iz fit tho...

  • megastar #35 6 years ago

    models rule!!

    whos cares if they know what a gameboy is.

  • MrGrumpy.au #36 6 years ago

    @projectmayhem, if you're referring to my post well I was just being polite.

    One thing that annoyed my just a little was the MN podcast where the clan mentioned in my previous post were seemingly given 360's + freebies to move them across the the new gen console (none of them really seemed overly excited about it either), too bad for normal gamers though.

    /goes back to watching the World Cup.

  • DNM #37 6 years ago

    Get back in front of the sink ffs!!! :)
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 15:44

  • Mick #38 6 years ago

    girls playing games?

    How ever do they find the time after cooking, cleaning etc....?

    edit:
    Bah! DNM beat me to it
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 15:46

  • Riggers #39 6 years ago

    Mick, I think PearofAnguish got there first actually! Although he only mentioned cooking, not cleaning. Tsk, tsk!

  • Swannzie #40 6 years ago

    Why do all these girl gamers think their starting a revoloution or sumin? Its a girl model, wow, its not like their reputation as gamers is going to be tarnished or anything.

  • Collie #41 6 years ago

    Unless these Fragdolls and such 'clans' play topless, I don't care what they think.

  • wired009 #42 6 years ago

    1. There is nothing wrong w/ an all female clan. They are making a statement that girls can play video games competitively. The impact of that statement would be lessened if they opened up the grp to both genders. Also, I'm sure the current members of F-Dolls could beat the crap out of most of us in whatever games they play and were not selected on looks otherwise they wouldn't have much legitimacy. Albeit I'm not familiar w/ the F-Doll clan.

    2. There is nothing wrong w/ being corporate sponsored. Pros and smart people get sponsors.

    3. There is nothing wrong w/ speaking out against things you think are wrong. The idea of just ignoring everything you don't like is for daisy dorkers. They should form their own female clan and call it the double deez. Nuts.
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 16:16

  • projectmayhem #43 6 years ago

    @MrGrumpy.au: not at all mate, i was just replying to the article itself moreso.

  • MrGrumpy.au #44 6 years ago

    @projectmayhem, sorry about my complete misunderstanding.

  • DNM #45 6 years ago

    "Bah! DNM beat me to it"

    Hehe... Daft tho innit, next they'll know how to explain the offside rule! I mean, it's never gonna happen is it?! :)

  • gaijin #46 6 years ago

    wired009

    I think there are two debates here. The 'girls can't play video games' argument is clearly rubbish. And I agree whole-heartedly that sponsorship and of itself is a sound professional move, and that the argument that "anyone could do it if they get paid to practice" is irrelevent - the fact is that its become their job and they're good at it. fair play.

    the question comes as to whether by defining themselves as 'girl gamers' they're actually drawing attention to the very characteristic that most people would say doesn't matter - their gender. If your a kick-ass gamer it shouldn't, we're suggesting, matter whether you're male or female - and especially online, where you *can't tell*.

    saying things like "...anyone who plays against us will quickly learn that we mean business and shouldn't be mistaken for models hired to stand near games."
    [link url=http://www.joystiq.com/2005/01/05/interview-the-frag- dolls/
    ]http://ww w.joystiq.com/2005/01/05/interv...[/link]

    draws attention to the very fact that they *might* be mistaken for models who stand near games, underlining the very slavering-spotty-teen appeal that we're supposed to think isn't in the equation and which an online gaming existence would allow people to ignore. If they wanted them to.

  • smoothpete #47 6 years ago

    Everyone knows girls can and do play games, but why the fuck would you want to make a statement about it? It's just normal life, blokes and girls like games. No, sorry, people like games. Why differentiate? What's the point?

    If anything, forming an all girl clan is reinforcing the stereotype that girls aren't gamers, which is bollocks. It's pure marketing, nothing else, and it's not even marketed to girls for fucks sake! The fragdolls were partly chosen for their looks, which would suggest to me that a) they should shut up about this beauty contest and b) they were put together to appeal to men. Pure and simple.

    I have no problem with the fragdolls as individuals, nor the girls who have entered this contest. Do whatever you like, but see the reasoning behind the marketing shite

  • I_Have_The_Power #48 6 years ago

    UK:R got it right:

    [link url=http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/20 05/09/in-what-order-are-we-going-to-try-and.html
    ]http://ww w.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/09/in...[/link]

    :p

  • Mr_Whacker #49 6 years ago

    This all a crock. Not the issue but the way its a media circus. I'm sure a lot of people are genuine about this but I don't care as its all so very full of hidden agenda.

    /goes to play a GAME.

  • gaijin #50 6 years ago

    no Xiphos, I don't want you to hit 'the high fucking gear', unless you are referring to heroin.

  • bauhaus #51 6 years ago

    Are women alloud to play games now?!?! Sheesh

  • rinoaMW #52 6 years ago

    Wow - a bunch of guys arguing over what women do, or not do (whatever the case may be)

    This is funny.

  • gaijin #53 6 years ago

    who says we're all guys?

  • djchump #54 6 years ago

    BTW - I was under the impression that Ubisoft *formed* the FragDolls - i.e. came up with the idea, took auditions etc. and recruited the individual members to form the clan.

    IMHO, That's a world away from a clan of gamers that self-formed (e.g. through meeting on game servers etc. and getting together themselves) and *then* sought sponsorship from a large corporation.

    I mean, not that I have anything against the FragDolls or Ubisoft (I hold Ubi in quite high esteem actually) - but AFAIK FragDolls *is* basically a stealth (or not so stealth) marketing campaign for Ubisoft games ;-)

  • Drakron #55 6 years ago

    Clans also tend to be just about online team games and then to expecialize in one game or just one type of game.

    Besides how many male or mix clans have corporate backing?

  • kangarootoo #56 6 years ago

    Christ alive, I think half the posters on this thread can be summarised by the time old,

    [link url=http://w ww.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
    ]http://ww w.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/0...[/link]

    Man, I don't think i was that insecure when I was 15, let alone the age that I'm sure many of you are.

    And the 1980s Butlin's stand up comic jokes are really getting old now. Anyone that is still posting those sorts of things is just making themselves look a bit thick and slow. its like turning up to a fancy dress party and not realising everyone else has taken off their costume. It just garners looks of pity and shaking heads.


    People seem to be missing one crucial point whilst ranting away like pubescent school children. One of the main reasons girl form girl only clans is so that they don't have to suffer sexist childish comments from cock monkeys like you.

    I clearly don't mean everyone, but its kind of obvious who the terribly sad girl fearers are (and it is fear, sad and pathetic fear, lets face it).
    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 17:28

  • SgtJericho #57 6 years ago

    If I wanted to join the Fragdolls, could I?

    No i couldnt. so fuck off.

    At least they are not EA puppets eh?

    If the UbiPuppets have their own all-girl clan, EA should have an all-girl clan too - they could call them the manEAters :p

  • Blood_and_Thunder #58 6 years ago

    Xiphos

    "@ PearOfAnguish 20-Jun-06 15:07:26

    using female marketing stereotypes to depict women as abusing their position against men on their own court, is just being a total asshole - you just qualified"

    You know, I really think he was JOKING, don't take an obvious joke so seriously

  • Drakron #59 6 years ago

    kangarootoo: You cannot go around promoting gender equality and then shut off people based on gender.

    PMS created a male clan called H2O because of it, what would happen in a clan was "male only" and then create a offshoot clan for "female supporters"?

  • gaijin #60 6 years ago

    kangarootoo

    I was at a Butlins in Pwllheli (sp?) in the eighties and I don't remember any stand up comics but I do remember the momentary glory of being at the top of the high score table for Gorf. "well done... space caaaaa-det."

    take your point, I think my only issue is with the standard post-fem argument that Xiphos seems to be making that using sex appeal is somehow liberating for all women, as opposed to advantageous for some (who are in a position to benefit themselves from it) while keeping the terms of the debate firmly around sexual difference and precisely the aspects of that difference (coincidentally?) that are of interest to men. Of course women shouldn't be 'ashamed' of their sexuality, but there's a world of difference between being happy with something and being encouraged to trade on it for others financial gain.

    /rant over


    Edited by 1 at 20/06/06 @ 17:47

  • kangarootoo #61 6 years ago

    @Drakron

    OK, I was over simplifying things a bit out of diapair at the bizarre mindset of some of my fellow posters.

    I think there are different types of all girl clans that exist for different reasons. A corp sponsored all girl clan may just be a marketing tool, but I don't know anytning about the clan in question so I don't want to go down that route as I would just be speculating.

    As I said, some all girl clans exist simply to provide an environment where girls can play games without being exposed to tossers asking them to take off their knickers every 30 seconds. There are some truly sad f*ckers out there, and the anonimiy of the internet is like a red rag to a bull for some poeple. I can quite understand if some girl gamers don't care about what political point they are making, so long as they don't have to suffer abuse every time they try to play an online game.

    Additionally, its worth bearing in mind that exlusion is sometimes required for a temporary period just so skilled gamers can be heard over the racket of the masses. As I said, there are some sorry excuses out there and being thrown into that pit is hardly an effective way to be noticed as a skilled gamer.

    There are numerous female support/highlight groups outside of gaming that don't exist to segregate or exclusivise, but rather they exist to give women a platform where they can be heard. Because truth be told, the "real world", though it may be all encompassing, is rarely fair and is usually dominated by those with the loudest voices (if not the leetest skilz [sic]).

  • kangarootoo #62 6 years ago

    @gaijin

    I agree. But I think we should be wary of painting all "girl gamer" groups with the same brush.

    "and being encouraged to trade on it for others financial gain"

    For some, that is simply a job, and a perfectly valid one many may say. But that is a seperate discussion.

    I think the big risk in this discussion is that people are confusing their views of the girl gamer clans in question with the quite valid point they are trying to make. They may be "corporate whores" (used in character, before anyone tries to shoot me) but that doesn't mean they don't have something valuable to say.

    I've never believed in the "well you are in no position to speak" attitude. Words do their own work, it doesn't really matter what mouth they come out of.

  • gaijin #63 6 years ago

    kangarootoo

    agreed, i think (barring a slight reservation about your final point - i think some people in positions of power have a moral obligation to be particularly careful what messages they send out - all mouths are not, from that point of view, equal)! i was assuming the discussion was specifically around one particular all girl group associated with a large gameco, and my comments should be taken in that context.

    (ps: i had some apple and cinammon crisps the other day- really rather good. as I recall you're a connoisseur of these things. they make a nice dessert after the parsnip ones.)

  • Drakron #64 6 years ago

    kangarootoo:

    Ever been called a "fag" because you beat someone online?

    You are just using the stereotype that women online are subjected to continue sexual harassment the moment they disclose their gender.

    When I played WoW I never seen what you say and there is a "Report to a DM" funtion and because of the things are if a female reports "sexual harassment" you can be sure the ofender will get banned.

    If a male reports it ... well I doubt much will happen.

    A "female-only" clan is as ofensive as a "male-only" clan, sexism is not exclusive to the male population and its not a excuse.

  • smoothpete #65 6 years ago

    djchump - "BTW - I was under the impression that Ubisoft *formed* the FragDolls - i.e. came up with the idea, took auditions etc. and recruited the individual members to form the clan. "

    Yeah that is how they formed, which is why I find the idea of them objecting to this kind of stupid. They are the Spice Girls of games basically.

  • gaselite #66 6 years ago

    The complete non-issue that is gender in gaming culture is starting to become a real issue with me.

  • jienn #67 6 years ago

    this competition would attract most age 14-ish nerds. so is it really that horrible? gasp! :o

  • djchump #68 6 years ago

    SmoothPete: "Yeah that is how they formed, which is why I find the idea of them objecting to this kind of stupid. They are the Spice Girls of games basically."

    Well quite - it's like them saying "we, as a corporate-created entity for the promotion of the corporation's product, have taken it upon ourselves to speak out on a morality-based issue"...

    I mean, I have no objection to the *individual* members of FragDolls making clear their take on the matter, but if it is Ubisoft's PR dept. speaking on behalf of the "manufactured clan" and trying to maneuvre them into being some kind of "female gaming spokesclan" - then I object to that as it (in part or in whole) serves Ubisoft's commercial needs rather than being motivated purely on moral/ethical grounds. I mean, gender doesn't really come into it for me - it's like if "Busted" or a manufactured boyband decided to "speak out" about the homogeneity and "manufactured" state of the pop music industry ;-)

    Let's face it, the article states "Ubisoft's Morgan Romine, who's in charge of marketing the US Frag Dolls , said..." - So to me it smacks of free PR for FD and a slow news day on behalf of the gaming media ;-)

  • NeuralCord #69 6 years ago

    Janell Oliver FTW! :p

  • Freek #70 6 years ago

    As long as they're promoted as the all GIRL gaming clan with GIRL gamers then they're in giant glass houses and shoulden't complaine. Gamers first you say? So why all the focus on your gender?

  • chods #71 6 years ago

    I think its a good idea. Let's face it, what bloke would seriously want to watch a ugly bird play video games anyway. 99.99% of 'girl' gamers actually look like monkies. Gothic monkies. Gothic monkies with smelly bedrooms.
    Seriously, if a monkey faced bird got 6000000 on Geometry Wars, who would give a toss if Meredith Brown was sitting next to them, no one would give a toss about the Jabba with the joystick. Maybe they should do the same for male gamers, but that would be unfair, as I'd probably win. ;)
    Edited by 3 at 20/06/06 @ 21:15

  • a8a #72 6 years ago

    The whole concept of 'Girl Gamers' is patently ridiculous. Not from the point of view that girls dont like games (wrong), but simply by the active categorisation of an entire gender into a single bracket.

    The concept of Girl Gamers to me conjures up images of feminist loudmouths more interested in making a statement or getting attention (which there is no shortage of from lonely guys) than actually playing games. I know many girls who play games, but only a few who would call themselves 'Girl Gamers'. Most don't really care how they are perceived, and aren't anxious to assign themselves a stereotype.

  • reality_cheque #73 6 years ago

    I'm fairly sure if I called WarKitty a "girl gamer" I would be in some deep shit.

    We should set up a squad of EG Clan members, and whoop the fuck outta the FragDolls until they be quiet.

  • #74 6 years ago

    I'd have a lot more to say if:

    i) I actually met a lot more girl gamers on-line (either clans or whatever)
    ii) They told me what it's like and how they felt
    iii) They actually whooped my ass.

    People tend to play what they are good at on-line though.

    For me, a gamer's a gamer if they are good then Kudos, if they are an annoying fucker they are sin-binned. Gender doesn't really enter my mind - half the kidds on Live! sound like girls anyway!

    There seems to be a lot of ranting going on though - for me the crux of the issue is this:

    The FragDolls are a corparate-created group of women. They focus on their exclusivity and sexuality to try and "attract" more women into gaming, but in actual fact are probably just encouraging the standard demorgaphic (teenage boys) - just as Lara Croft (and any other female lead character in a game) is there to help women 'identify with the game' - it's not the case. Lara Croft was created to make boys buy buy buy.
    As such, for them to speak out about this competition seems to me somewhat outside their mandate, and as has been said before - they can hardly talk. - I imagine for the FragDoll auditions TONS of genuinely good gaming girls were passed up on looks alone.
    Just look at what they do - are they a real "Caln"? Most clans just tend to play a certain game(s) and kick your ass. I wish I knew what games they played so I could see how good they were (and here 'good' would be my measure of genuiness).

    So I am calling out to all female gamers who see this - add "Flip 45" to your XBL friends list and we'll have a game - simple as that.

  • urban #75 6 years ago

    i agree, no point to it...

    hah just looked at the website..one girl...

    Liah Oeltjen

    Name: Liah Oeltjen
    City: Grimsby
    State: Ontario
    Favorite Food: Poutine
    Favorite Video
    Game:
    Likes: Chocolate
    Dislikes: Bad music
    Favorite Artist: Bob Dylan
    Favorite Movie(s): Fight Club, Sleepy Hollow, American Beauty, Clockwork Orange, Water, The Collector

    notice how she doesnt have a favourite video game..
    Edited by 2 at 21/06/06 @ 12:11

  • reality_cheque #76 6 years ago

    @jamesphilp - add WarKitty to you list, she'll enjoy proving her mettle with a couple of dozen shots to the head :)

    I'm not just saying this because she's my missus, I've not seen her come any less than second place on GR:AW and even that is pretty rare. Last week she was bitching she needed better people to play with because she got 14 out of 15 kills in a match :D

  • kangarootoo #77 6 years ago

    @gaijin

    I've been off the posh crisps for a while now, but I'll take your suggestion onboard :)

    @Drakron

    "You are just using the stereotype that women online are subjected to continue sexual harassment the moment they disclose their gender."

    Is it really a stereo type? I'm not saying it happens in a majority of cases, but it does happen. There are a few interesting articles out there about it should you care to browse google for a bit.

    Even some of the ealier comments on this thread (thinkgs seem to have levelled off now thankfully, I guess the words got too big to keep the interest of the children) demonstrate the unhealthy attitude some guys have to girl gamers (almost certainly stemming from a lack of female contact, resulting in fear and the inability to connect, if we don't understand something we attack it "before it gets us first";).

    MMOs seem to suffer a lot less than FPS games. I could suppose on why that is, but I'm not sure it is relevant.

    "If a male reports it ... well I doubt much will happen"

    Now that is surely a problem with the moderation of the game itself. You seem to be suggesting that girls should "put up and shut up" because "thats what we blokes have to do" (correct me if I'm wrong there by all means). Two wrongs don't make a right is my cliched response to that.

    I'll get off my soapbox now. Many of my points are in reaction to the dozy crap that filled the first half of this thread. I agree with jamesphilip's comparison to Lara Croft, but these things aren't black and white (in fact its the minutae that makes these things interesting to discuss).

  • #78 6 years ago

    @ reality

    I'll do that, but unfortunatley GRAW isn't my forte as such (I hold my own mostly).
    However, COD2 is a lot more where I'm at in the FPS nline 360 mode right now.

    /Realises all was completely off topic!

  • optimusprym8 #79 6 years ago

    surely if they are so against it and the "girl gamers" they would just call themselves gamers and not bring gender into it. All they do is try to swing the argument the other way which is just as bad as having one-sided in the first place. If I play someone online I don't give a fuck if they are man, woman, cat, dog, alien whatever. As long as they give good game that's all that matters.

  • #80 6 years ago

    I was playing COD2 the other day and there was a girl in the match.

    Personally I couldn't tell if the Storm trooper getting shot up was a male or female!

    Like optimusprym8 said - I couldn't care less - a gamer's a gamer - that's what's so great about playing games - gender is almost totally nullified. You can't claim the bigger/stronger arguament with gaming - it's a total skill/reactions/interllect/luck thing.

    So here we are, with a chance to truly be generic and unify and lead the way in a discrimination-less environement and what do we do? - Form all-girl clans and such. - Shame. Probably has something to do with all the 10-16 year-olds playing games and being generally unpleasant/leery/abusive to any girl who dares to step foot in their lobby. Shame :(

    So any female COD2 (360) nuts out there anyway?

  • Riggers #81 6 years ago

    "You are just using the stereotype that women online are subjected to continue sexual harassment the moment they disclose their gender."

    It does happen - the solution is to ignore, block and report. I personally would never join an all-girl clan, because to me, that's letting the morons win. Reverse discrimination is still discrimination. As smoothpete said, "Everyone knows girls can and do play games, but why the fuck would you want to make a statement about it? It's just normal life, blokes and girls like games. No, sorry, people like games. Why differentiate? What's the point?"

  • optimusprym8 #82 6 years ago

    "I've never believed in the "well you are in no position to speak" attitude. Words do their own work, it doesn't really matter what mouth they come out of."

    unless it's a member of the BNP in which case they are in no position to speak or be heard but that's a different subject entirely.

    optimus 'Punched a racist at the weekend' prym8

  • #83 6 years ago

    Yeah, it's a good thing you never hear any racist comments on xbox Live!

    0_o

    Next stop all-white Klans /gasp

  • thelastslice #84 6 years ago

    Now... if I understand what the Fragdolls are saying, the technically have no problem with the "beuaty" portion of the contest- rather the fact that few of the girls are actual gamers. That is a bit disconserting- imagine if they had a 'Sexiest Male Gamer' contest and the only thing the guy played is Tetris one time back in '89 on his friends Gameboy.

  • kangarootoo #85 6 years ago

    @optimusprym8

    I hate the BNP as much as anyone and would happily punch a member given even the slightest cause, but I don't agree that they should not be heard. Inciting hatred is one thing and that should be prevented, but everyone should be able to voice an opinion even if its not one you agree with.

    Deciding that people with a differening opinion to your should be silenced is basically facism. Even if your opinion seems to be obviously the "right" one.

    Trying to ban bigots from speaking is to assume that your own opinions are safe and correct, and that is a very dangerous thing. I'm sure Hitler believed that his bonkers nazism made perfect sense.

    I'm not comparing you to Hitler or anything so daft of course, and this is veering wildly off topic. But I believe that freedom of speech for everyone is a good thing on principle. Not just a freedom that should be granted to speech that I want to hear.

    I'm not saying I am infallible and that I don't often sit there listening to some racist tit and think "shut your big stupid gob" (or indeed want to puch their big stupid head), but then I am only human with emotions as well as principles.
    Edited by 2 at 22/06/06 @ 14:05

  • liah- #86 6 years ago

    @urban

    this may be old, i don't know. i googled my name and saw what came up.

    i was entered by someone else as a joke into the WSVG contest. because the guys of DoD1.3 are total jerks and love to screw girls over.

    i do play a game. i play Day of Defeat 1.3 competitively. i've been on various teams, and good ones at that. i'm not euro, so i don't know how i ended up here. anyway.

    [link url=http://czleague.net/steamid_search.php?action=vi ewuser&id=336713
    ]http://cz league.net/steamid_search.php?a...[/link]

    talk to me before you post my information on some euro site, k?