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PS3 could have rumble - Immersion president News
PlayStation 3 News by Tom Bramwell
Sony has been offered help introducing "rumble" technology to its PlayStation 3 controller by a very unusual source - the president of the company that sued it for using the technology in the first place.
In a press release shortly after its pre-E3 conference, the platform holder said the addition of tilt sensors to the PS3 controller meant it was impossible to implement rumble technology - something balked at by a number of commentators, and widely criticised following the show.
Speaking to Gamasutra, Immersion president Victor Viegas said he'd "offered them numerous solutions to the problem". "I don't believe it's a very difficult problem to solve, and Immersion has experts that would be happy to solve that problem for them."
For this to happen, however, Sony would have to drop its current appeal against the 2004 lawsuit that saw it told to pay approximately USD 90 million in damages to Immersion, which had alleged it made illegal use of its "haptic" (rumble) technologies.
Sony is currently appealing against an injunction that would prohibit it from making or selling PlayStation controllers featuring rumble technology. Microsoft, originally named in the same lawsuit, settled with Immersion for $26 million, also taking a 10 per cent stake in the company and becoming a licensee of its technology. Immersion has taken no action against Nintendo at this time.
"[Sony has] taken aggressive positions with the use of patents to try to invalidate our claims, and have argued that Immersion committed fraud," Viegas told Gamasutra. "There's been quite a lot of legal activity and a lot of unnecessary energy expended over this."
Viegas feels that the removal of rumble from PlayStation 3 is a backwards step for Sony, telling Gamasutra, "to take vibration out of a driving game or a first person shooting game, I can't imagine how people will be able to view that as an advancement in gaming".
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Triggerhappytel
19/05/06 @ 12:32
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Sony will never take this bait. They couldn't lose face like that after fighting for so long.
I'll bet Microsoft are loving it, though.
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 13:32
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Well well well...
I mentioned this in a few other topics... but it's nice to read it proper. The whole lawsuit was silly... Microsoft did the right thing, Sony... I have no idea what was driving them. They lost, and somehow I do not think an appeal is going to change that... As for not taking action against Nintendo, from what I understood on this, Nintendo's rumble technology did not infringe Immersion's patents, therefore Immersion could not take legal action against them. Do correct me if I am wrong though...
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 13:37
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killyourtv
19/05/06 @ 12:35
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hopefully gamers and maybe more importantly developers tell sony to sort it out
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Agreed. Really pissed off with Sony about this.
It's putting me off getting a PS3. PUTTING ME OFF. Idiots. I can tank the price and accept the Blue Ray drive as I'd probably get one of those eventually anyway. But this? No, I don't want to settle for a shite controller thanks. It's more important than they think and I'm frankly insulted to be told by them that rumble is last gen. As for the tilt excuse... plu-ease. |
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Triggerhappytel
19/05/06 @ 12:48
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"As for not taking action against Nintendo, from what I understood on this, Nintendo's rumble technology did not infringe Immersion's patents, therefore Immersion could not take legal action against them. Do correct me if I am wrong though..."
Well, it must true as Ninty have not been involved in the court case. But I ask this: why don't Sony just develop a new way of delivering rumble technology?! I mean seriously, a company like Sony - will all it's resources and R&D - could surely come up with a way of delivering slightly different force feedback that doesn't infringe on the patented technology...?
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 13:49
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@ IAmBatman;
Seven minutes behind my edit mate ^^ But I am pretty sure it's right. From what I was aware, the infringement was on an experimental dual-motor rumble technology. Which is the technology that Sony and Microsoft use. But not the technology Nintendo used. Which makes them exempt from legal proceedings... Like I said though, someone please do correct me if I am wrong. |
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"Patents. Did you know there's a patent held by some microscopic software company on spherical camera controls in realtime 3D, and they're starting to level lawsuits against EVERYONE? Did you ever wonder what happened to force feedback, controllers that push your hands around so you can feel the action in the game as well as see it (we're talking real force feedback, not controllers that vibrate like pagers)? Somebody has a patent, that's what. Did you know you can't have mini-games during a loading screen because of patent law?"
i hate them!
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 13:55
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bloodflowers
19/05/06 @ 12:58
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Kinda funny really.
1: If $ony drop the appeal, they have to pay the damages and pay to license the tech (probably some kind of new re-negotiated deal). 2: If they don't drop the appeal, they stand a chance of being able to use rumble again, and might avoid the damages. However, Microsoft licensing it validates the patent claim in the courts. They obviosuly knew this when buying part of Immersion. 3: If $ony develop a new type of rumble, they're as much as admitting the previous type was infringing, see #1. Everyone knows this, but they still have to continue with the lies. Why? Even funnier is they claim they've dropped rumble so they can implement an idea *they stole from someone else* ;-) Oh, as for patents. I guess all the people here complaining wrote to their MEP when the new EU patent laws were being rammed through? Oh, you didn't? Oh dear....
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:00
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Triggerhappytel
19/05/06 @ 12:58
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"@Triggerhappytel : They're probably at it right now! Surely it would cost less than the $90 million that Immersion is all but demanding from Sony."
But Sony will have to pay that $90 million anyway unless they win the appeal (which probably isn't very likely). I just find it so hard to believe they couldn't come up with a new way of doing rumble in the couple of years this court case has been floating around. Can't they just find a new way to drive the motors, or put in a different number, or something. Alright, I appreciate it can't be -that- easy, but I would like my PS3 to have rumble, is all. "Trigger, You'd think they'd be able to come up with a good console.... :P" So... played it then, have you? ;)
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:00
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Fozzie_bear
19/05/06 @ 13:09
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They lost, and somehow I do not think an appeal is going to change that...
Well what the hell are you still doing here? Get on the phone to Sony - it looks like they're wasting a fortune on lawyers who reckon the appeal might work! They'll kick themselves when you tell them. |
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Hypernova > namco (I think from memory) used a shooty game in loading screens between the main game in (ridge racer something?).. anyway the point is that when someone else tried to help the boredom of players by providing a little fun between loading they got in trouble as it was patented. So now no one else can do it - which is completely idiotic. It's like saying "no one else can ever stick a gun in front of a game camera and call it a first person shooter".
I wouldn't mind but the people who patent these things usually just sit on them and don't even make good use where someone else could.
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:28
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I think the problem in Sony eye's is that if they agree to pay the fine and license the technology, they will also have to pay MS a royalty on every playstation sold, because MS bought a controlling stake after being sued by Immersion (they sued MS and Sony at the same time). MS don't have to pay a royalty to immersion because they got a royalty-free license when they bought a stake in the company.
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:35
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“We have officially stated we have not performed full analysis on Nintendo’s product so are not in a position to comment on the technology they are using,” Viegas said, adding “we’ll take a look at those.”
From the part of the Gamasutra article EG didn't bother quoting. Anyone who thinks a company isn't going to appeal a large settlement is barking.
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:40
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@sharpfish
Thanks for the reply. I was aware that a lot of companies go a bit OTT with patents (trying to patent words etc..), but I would never have thought you could patent something like the idea of a mini-game during loading. As you say, it's idiotic, and seems no different to patenting the idea of a loading screen.
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:42
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Arrogant twats getting everything they deserve. Lazy design in the dual shock pad in the first place (just squeeze in those thumbsticks baby) and a completely missed opportunity for a new design that is more comfortable to use. How hard can it be to make something rumble anyway: surely Sony can come up with something!
Looks like MS are the only comapny providing a refinement over proven controler traditions this generation: Sony a step back and Ninty a step too far IMHO.
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most recently on 19/05/06 @ 14:43
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Droping the appeal means paying up the 90 million fine, which, in return, means more profit for Immersion, therefore more profit for its shareholders, therefore more profit for Microsoft.
Losing the appeal means paying up the 90 million fine, which, in return, means... I think that you get the picture... Unless Sony wins the appeal, they got themselves in a "no-win" situation. The way I see it, by droping the appeal, they might have a chance of negotiating a settlement for the 90 million, instead of coughing it up all at once. |
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Am I the only one that dosen't care about rumble technology? I very rarley notice it when playing games these days anyway. It makes no difference.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder ;) This confuses me because if Sony is really tight arse about this wouldn't this mean they couldn't currently sell Dual Shock 2 with a rumble? |
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"seems a bit stupid on sonys part.. microsoft admit that they are infinging the patent and settle for $26 million.. sony, being sony have to get all lawsuity and try and make out there not infinging it (even thou they proberly know they are) and end up having to pay $90 million! almost 4 times as much as microsoft did"
I would guess that the size of the fine is in relation to the number of products sold using the technology, and with Sony selling way more consoles (and thus pads) this may explain the big difference in the fines. Imo I think that not having rumble is a HUGE mistake. Lots of Sony enthusiasts who don't necessarily read forums will buy the PS3 and not realise this until they get home and plug in their 425 pounds console - I wouldn't be happy AT ALL! Sony need to bite the bullet on this one, the more they go on resisting, the more petulant they look. MS played their cards very well however....I will follow this story with interest. |
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SirScratchalot
19/05/06 @ 14:11
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"
El_MUERkO - to get a patent you have to demostrate real interellectual property and ways of specific implementation. It' not like you just go down the office with some crazy ideas and they give you a patent for it, then later just sue people for copying it. " Actually that´s exactly how it works in the US. The patent office there isn´t responsible for judging how reasonable a patent is. That´s left for people to settle through lawsuits. People have patented such things as certain Yoga moves, cutting Hair using both hands at the same time etc. Luckily these are void in the EU where you really only patent a technology rather than a concept. |
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Triggerhappytel
19/05/06 @ 15:02
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"Now let's wait for Nintendo and Microsoft sueing Sony for the tilt patents infrigement..."
Nice suggestion, if it weren't for the fact that Sony registered this idea in 1999. http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0 Should Sony counter-sue M$?! |
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thecookiemonster
19/05/06 @ 15:17
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Dear eurogamer,
Immersion cannot sue Nintendo for the rumble feature, Immersion is a subsidiary of Nintendo. That means Nintendo owns more than 50% of immersion's stock(i.e immersion is owned by Nintendo). |
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