PS3 could have rumble - Immersion president

By Tom Bramwell Published 19 May, 2006

Offers help, if appeal is dropped.

Sony has been offered help introducing "rumble" technology to its PlayStation 3 controller by a very unusual source - the president of the company that sued it for using the technology in the first place.

In a press release shortly after its pre-E3 conference, the platform holder said the addition of tilt sensors to the PS3 controller meant it was impossible to implement rumble technology - something balked at by a number of commentators, and widely criticised following the show.

Speaking to Gamasutra, Immersion president Victor Viegas said he'd "offered them numerous solutions to the problem". "I don't believe it's a very difficult problem to solve, and Immersion has experts that would be happy to solve that problem for them."

For this to happen, however, Sony would have to drop its current appeal against the 2004 lawsuit that saw it told to pay approximately USD 90 million in damages to Immersion, which had alleged it made illegal use of its "haptic" (rumble) technologies.

Sony is currently appealing against an injunction that would prohibit it from making or selling PlayStation controllers featuring rumble technology. Microsoft, originally named in the same lawsuit, settled with Immersion for $26 million, also taking a 10 per cent stake in the company and becoming a licensee of its technology. Immersion has taken no action against Nintendo at this time.

"[Sony has] taken aggressive positions with the use of patents to try to invalidate our claims, and have argued that Immersion committed fraud," Viegas told Gamasutra. "There's been quite a lot of legal activity and a lot of unnecessary energy expended over this."

Viegas feels that the removal of rumble from PlayStation 3 is a backwards step for Sony, telling Gamasutra, "to take vibration out of a driving game or a first person shooting game, I can't imagine how people will be able to view that as an advancement in gaming".

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (107) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Triggerhappytel #1 6 years ago

    Sony will never take this bait. They couldn't lose face like that after fighting for so long.

    I'll bet Microsoft are loving it, though.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 13:32

  • Blerk #2 6 years ago

    Just pay the bloody fine, Sony. They won. Get over it and move on.

  • Yossarian #3 6 years ago

    so you're saying they didn't take the rumble out because it messed with the sensors??!?! then why would they say tha...

    oh right it's Sony

  • Kami #4 6 years ago

    Well well well...

    I mentioned this in a few other topics... but it's nice to read it proper.

    The whole lawsuit was silly... Microsoft did the right thing, Sony... I have no idea what was driving them. They lost, and somehow I do not think an appeal is going to change that...

    As for not taking action against Nintendo, from what I understood on this, Nintendo's rumble technology did not infringe Immersion's patents, therefore Immersion could not take legal action against them. Do correct me if I am wrong though...
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 13:37

  • killyourtv #5 6 years ago

    hopefully gamers and maybe more importantly developers tell sony to sort it out

  • cyacomini #6 6 years ago

    If SONY can hang off for another few months, the dollar will be worth monkey nuts - they'll pay the fine, but in real terms it'll only cost them a tenner...

  • Zuiyo #7 6 years ago

    Sony should settle, pay the license and include the rumble feature in PS3.

  • IAmBatman #8 6 years ago

    > Immersion has taken no action against Nintendo at this time

    Because Nintendo doesn't infringe on their patent, perhaps? What sort of reporting is that anyway - Immersion haven't taken action against Dyson, Argos, Coca Cola, or Boots Pharmaceuticals either, perhaps you want to mention those too?

  • ToeWars #9 6 years ago

    Agreed. Really pissed off with Sony about this.

    It's putting me off getting a PS3. PUTTING ME OFF. Idiots.

    I can tank the price and accept the Blue Ray drive as I'd probably get one of those eventually anyway. But this? No, I don't want to settle for a shite controller thanks.

    It's more important than they think and I'm frankly insulted to be told by them that rumble is last gen. As for the tilt excuse... plu-ease.

  • Triggerhappytel #10 6 years ago

    "As for not taking action against Nintendo, from what I understood on this, Nintendo's rumble technology did not infringe Immersion's patents, therefore Immersion could not take legal action against them. Do correct me if I am wrong though..."

    Well, it must true as Ninty have not been involved in the court case. But I ask this: why don't Sony just develop a new way of delivering rumble technology?! I mean seriously, a company like Sony - will all it's resources and R&D - could surely come up with a way of delivering slightly different force feedback that doesn't infringe on the patented technology...?
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 13:49

  • Talha #11 6 years ago

    @Triggerhappytel : They're probably at it right now! Surely it would cost less than the $90 million that Immersion is all but demanding from Sony.

  • Kami #12 6 years ago

    @ IAmBatman;

    Seven minutes behind my edit mate ^^

    But I am pretty sure it's right. From what I was aware, the infringement was on an experimental dual-motor rumble technology. Which is the technology that Sony and Microsoft use. But not the technology Nintendo used. Which makes them exempt from legal proceedings...

    Like I said though, someone please do correct me if I am wrong.

  • El_MUERkO #13 6 years ago

    "Patents. Did you know there's a patent held by some microscopic software company on spherical camera controls in realtime 3D, and they're starting to level lawsuits against EVERYONE? Did you ever wonder what happened to force feedback, controllers that push your hands around so you can feel the action in the game as well as see it (we're talking real force feedback, not controllers that vibrate like pagers)? Somebody has a patent, that's what. Did you know you can't have mini-games during a loading screen because of patent law?"

    i hate them!
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 13:55

  • #14 6 years ago

    Trigger,
    You'd think they'd be able to come up with a good console.... :p

    El_MUERkO - to get a patent you have to demostrate real interellectual property and ways of specific implementation. It' not like you just go down the office with some crazy ideas and they give you a patent for it, then later just sue people for copying it.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 13:57

  • bloodflowers #15 6 years ago

    Kinda funny really.

    1: If $ony drop the appeal, they have to pay the damages and pay to license the tech (probably some kind of new re-negotiated deal).
    2: If they don't drop the appeal, they stand a chance of being able to use rumble again, and might avoid the damages. However, Microsoft licensing it validates the patent claim in the courts. They obviosuly knew this when buying part of Immersion.
    3: If $ony develop a new type of rumble, they're as much as admitting the previous type was infringing, see #1.

    Everyone knows this, but they still have to continue with the lies. Why? Even funnier is they claim they've dropped rumble so they can implement an idea *they stole from someone else* ;-) Oh, as for patents. I guess all the people here complaining wrote to their MEP when the new EU patent laws were being rammed through? Oh, you didn't? Oh dear....
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:00

  • Triggerhappytel #16 6 years ago

    "@Triggerhappytel : They're probably at it right now! Surely it would cost less than the $90 million that Immersion is all but demanding from Sony."

    But Sony will have to pay that $90 million anyway unless they win the appeal (which probably isn't very likely). I just find it so hard to believe they couldn't come up with a new way of doing rumble in the couple of years this court case has been floating around.

    Can't they just find a new way to drive the motors, or put in a different number, or something. Alright, I appreciate it can't be -that- easy, but I would like my PS3 to have rumble, is all.

    "Trigger,
    You'd think they'd be able to come up with a good console.... :p"

    So... played it then, have you? ;)
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:00

  • bauhaus #17 6 years ago

    sort it out sony

    no rumble = crap

  • #18 6 years ago

    As blood says though, development of a new rumble technology will be pretty much admission of guilt. Immersion's lawyers will have a field day.

    Yes, Sony are stuck, especially due to the way MS played it.
    I'm tempted to type: Mwahahaha

  • Talha #19 6 years ago

    Well MS have considerably deeper pockets than anyone else right now. Poor Sony.

  • Fozzie_bear #20 6 years ago

    They lost, and somehow I do not think an appeal is going to change that...

    Well what the hell are you still doing here? Get on the phone to Sony - it looks like they're wasting a fortune on lawyers who reckon the appeal might work! They'll kick themselves when you tell them.

  • drumbaby #21 6 years ago

    Immersion run Sony over in the road...reverse over them...and the chuckling Msoft passenger winds down the window: "Aw, Sony, can we help at all?"

    :)

  • hypernova #22 6 years ago

    "Did you know you can't have mini-games during a loading screen because of patent law?"

    Eh?

  • WicKeD #23 6 years ago

    I wonder what the daily interest is on $90 million. :/

    They should know when they're beat Pay up, save themselves further embarrassment and do something right by the PS3, cut the ramble and get the rumble back in!

  • SimonM7 #24 6 years ago

    I like how Sony had an extra year of getting their launch absolutely flawless, and it's a far greater mess than MS ever had last year.

  • JHuxley #25 6 years ago

    I hope they lose the appeal and pay Immersion what they're owed. Sony's attitude on this one just plain stinks, and now it's the gamers that are losing out.

  • sharpfish #26 6 years ago

    Hypernova > namco (I think from memory) used a shooty game in loading screens between the main game in (ridge racer something?).. anyway the point is that when someone else tried to help the boredom of players by providing a little fun between loading they got in trouble as it was patented. So now no one else can do it - which is completely idiotic. It's like saying "no one else can ever stick a gun in front of a game camera and call it a first person shooter".

    I wouldn't mind but the people who patent these things usually just sit on them and don't even make good use where someone else could.

    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:28

  • Jokerr #27 6 years ago

    I think the problem in Sony eye's is that if they agree to pay the fine and license the technology, they will also have to pay MS a royalty on every playstation sold, because MS bought a controlling stake after being sued by Immersion (they sued MS and Sony at the same time). MS don't have to pay a royalty to immersion because they got a royalty-free license when they bought a stake in the company.
    Edited by 4 at 19/05/06 @ 14:35

  • #28 6 years ago

    Jeez those MS business people are crafty!

    That mini-game loading screen thingy - no way! Perhaps you could suply a link/evidence of this. I'd be very interested to read about it.

  • Whizzo #29 6 years ago

    “We have officially stated we have not performed full analysis on Nintendo’s product so are not in a position to comment on the technology they are using,” Viegas said, adding “we’ll take a look at those.”

    From the part of the Gamasutra article EG didn't bother quoting.

    Anyone who thinks a company isn't going to appeal a large settlement is barking.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:40

  • hypernova #30 6 years ago

    @sharpfish

    Thanks for the reply. I was aware that a lot of companies go a bit OTT with patents (trying to patent words etc..), but I would never have thought you could patent something like the idea of a mini-game during loading. As you say, it's idiotic, and seems no different to patenting the idea of a loading screen.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:42

  • Rambaldi #31 6 years ago

    Arrogant twats getting everything they deserve. Lazy design in the dual shock pad in the first place (just squeeze in those thumbsticks baby) and a completely missed opportunity for a new design that is more comfortable to use. How hard can it be to make something rumble anyway: surely Sony can come up with something!

    Looks like MS are the only comapny providing a refinement over proven controler traditions this generation: Sony a step back and Ninty a step too far IMHO.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:43

  • Willum #32 6 years ago

    Am I the only one that dosen't care about rumble technology? I very rarley notice it when playing games these days anyway. It makes no difference.

  • JonFE #33 6 years ago

    Droping the appeal means paying up the 90 million fine, which, in return, means more profit for Immersion, therefore more profit for its shareholders, therefore more profit for Microsoft.

    Losing the appeal means paying up the 90 million fine, which, in return, means... I think that you get the picture...

    Unless Sony wins the appeal, they got themselves in a "no-win" situation. The way I see it, by droping the appeal, they might have a chance of negotiating a settlement for the 90 million, instead of coughing it up all at once.

  • Rambaldi #34 6 years ago

    "Am I the only one that dosen't care about rumble technology? I very rarley notice it when playing games these days anyway. It makes no difference. "

    Just like you rarely notice widescreen, colour, indoor toilets etc. Take it away and see how you feel.

  • Steroyd #35 6 years ago

    Am I the only one that dosen't care about rumble technology? I very rarley notice it when playing games these days anyway. It makes no difference.

    Absence makes the heart grow fonder ;)

    This confuses me because if Sony is really tight arse about this wouldn't this mean they couldn't currently sell Dual Shock 2 with a rumble?

  • #36 6 years ago

    Rumble was great fun when first introduced, and if well implemented, can really influence gaming experience IMO.
    Of course, sometimes it is over-used and that's annoying.

    EDIT: I think we need to know more details about the patent itself to be able to know why 3rd party pad makers are excluded & why Nintendo aren't the 3rd obviou target.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 14:50

  • Skooch #37 6 years ago

    "seems a bit stupid on sonys part.. microsoft admit that they are infinging the patent and settle for $26 million.. sony, being sony have to get all lawsuity and try and make out there not infinging it (even thou they proberly know they are) and end up having to pay $90 million! almost 4 times as much as microsoft did"

    I would guess that the size of the fine is in relation to the number of products sold using the technology, and with Sony selling way more consoles (and thus pads) this may explain the big difference in the fines.

    Imo I think that not having rumble is a HUGE mistake. Lots of Sony enthusiasts who don't necessarily read forums will buy the PS3 and not realise this until they get home and plug in their 425 pounds console - I wouldn't be happy AT ALL!

    Sony need to bite the bullet on this one, the more they go on resisting, the more petulant they look. MS played their cards very well however....I will follow this story with interest.

  • Psi #38 6 years ago

    Why don't sony just buy the rights to the rampant rabbit and use that as the controller, they enjoy fucking their customers its the next logical step.




    (not trolling, just joking, i enjoy sony rumble pads too, not in a sexual manner mind)

  • #39 6 years ago

    So, MS take a $26m hit, and a 10% hit on each controller right?

    But they then invest so heavilty in immersion that they are effectively paying themselves back? - genius (not that this sort of thing isn't the whole basis behind modern finance).

    Now Sony need to shell out $90m and cannot invest in Immersion so will be giving their money to MS if they settle - hehehe. I bet the guy that came up with that settlement strategy at MS got a big promotion!!

    But development of new rumble technology is basically an admission that the old one did infringe on the patent - therefore an admission of guilt - Sony are well and truly f**ked!

    I bet they don't want 10% of all controller sales to go basically to MS!!

    The only way out is to keep the law suit going on indefinatley! And that must be costing them too!
    Edited by 2 at 19/05/06 @ 14:58

  • Skooch #40 6 years ago

    At the end of the day games can only exploit three out of the five senses (until smell-o-vision and taste TV's are released) and losing one of these is a big deal. Time will tell whether tilt-sensitivity can make up for this loss.

  • SirScratchalot #41 6 years ago

    "
    El_MUERkO - to get a patent you have to demostrate real interellectual property and ways of specific implementation. It' not like you just go down the office with some crazy ideas and they give you a patent for it, then later just sue people for copying it. "

    Actually that´s exactly how it works in the US. The patent office there isn´t responsible for judging how reasonable a patent is. That´s left for people to settle through lawsuits.

    People have patented such things as certain Yoga moves, cutting Hair using both hands at the same time etc. Luckily these are void in the EU where you really only patent a technology rather than a concept.

  • Xerx3s #42 6 years ago

    Just a thought, i read somewhere on the forums that the controller will last 10-15 hours, adding a rumble pack would more or less cut that in half. :\

  • Twinfalls #43 6 years ago

    Anyone who doubts that patent law enables incredible fraud should read this article (Namco has the patent over mini-games during load screens):

    http://www.passthe press.com/?p=247
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 15:18

  • madgfx #44 6 years ago

    well if its not sorted out by time the PS3 comes out.
    I bet games makers will leave rumble in there games. who know u may even be able to use your old ps2 pads now that would be a step forward sony lol.

  • Raziel #45 6 years ago

    Wonder how long it will take for a 3rd party PS3 Rumble controller is made...

  • Frogger #46 6 years ago

    Now let's wait for Nintendo and Microsoft sueing Sony for the tilt patents infrigement...

  • Xerx3s #47 6 years ago

    "well if its not sorted out by time the PS3 comes out.
    I bet games makers will leave rumble in there games. who know u may even be able to use your old ps2 pads now that would be a step forward sony lol."

    Yes, but what instruction sets would they use?

  • Triggerhappytel #48 6 years ago

    "Now let's wait for Nintendo and Microsoft sueing Sony for the tilt patents infrigement..."

    Nice suggestion, if it weren't for the fact that Sony registered this idea in 1999.

    http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP1109 9284&F=0

    Should Sony counter-sue M$?!

  • Bill_Gates_Bitch #49 6 years ago

    Hahahaha, welcome to the Real Next Gen.

  • thecookiemonster #50 6 years ago

    Dear eurogamer,

    Immersion cannot sue Nintendo for the rumble feature, Immersion is a subsidiary of Nintendo. That means Nintendo owns more than 50% of immersion's stock(i.e immersion is owned by Nintendo).

  • JediMasterMalik #51 6 years ago

    Even though i'm a sony fanboy (yes I admit it) I think they should swallow their pride and settle out of court like M$. Almost everyone including me wants rumble back.

  • Kami #52 6 years ago

    Don't get me wrong, I see why Sony would WANT to appeal, more for saving face than anything. Just Microsoft validated the patent when settling, so how Sony can really attack any of that baffles me. Perhaps they have a good argument...

    ... but still think Sony should settle, and should have settled long ago...

    As for Nintendo owning that chunk of Immersion... any evidence? Don't make me go looking for evidence!

  • #53 6 years ago

    If MS validated it Sony will have to counter-sue MS in the position they actually win right?
    /confused

  • Kami #54 6 years ago

    Don't try going too deep into what happens should Sony successfully appeal... opens up a whole new can of worms...

  • Qbert2k #55 6 years ago

    "As for Nintendo owning that chunk of Immersion... any evidence? Don't make me go looking for evidence!"

    They don't. Immersion haven't tried to sue Nintendo because they use a different type of technology for their rumble devices.

    Immersion vs Sony
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 16:54

  • Kami #56 6 years ago

    Ahh, kudos to you, Qbert2k. Thank you for that read, very interesting.

    Would laugh at Sony licencing the Nintendo patent... or the Immersion patent... heh heh. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place...

  • rogermellie #57 6 years ago

    I can't believe the rumble feature won't be in the PS3 controller. Personally I love the way it's used in Project Zero and will miss it.

  • tengu #58 6 years ago

    Ah well, if I really need rumble I suppose I could just get one of those third party pads from Logitech or whatever the fuck they're called. They're not so up their own arse they won't pay a license fee it appears.

  • SeesThroughAll #59 6 years ago

    If there is one company manages to make Sony look like saints, that's Microsoft. This whole business is getting as discusting as ridiculous at this point.

  • Stormflood. #60 6 years ago

    Blame corporate lawyers. Bunch of little bitches trying to willy fight each other.

  • The12thMonkey #61 6 years ago

    My understanding, from a semi-layman's examination of the internals of both a PS2 pad and a GameCube pad, that the Nintendo system just uses one motor to pulse out a vibration. It's simple and doesn't allow for much finesse.

    Sony, on the other hand, as most people have probably felt through the pad, uses two motors controlled seperately, to kick in a different times and speeds to provide different levels and types of vibration. It's this system, which Imersion call "Haptic" which is the point of contention.

    So yes, if ever there was a rock and hard place situation, it's this;

    Liscensing the Nintendo technology not only looses face to Nintendo, but has problems with the backwards compatability angle; imagine all those PS2 games with "stand-out" vibration being reduced down to one simple motor.

    And asking for a liscense from Imersion just puts money into Microsoft, and is an even bigger loss of face.

    I guess they could try and research a new way themselves, but with space inside those pads at a premium, they'd have their work cut out.

  • darkmistx #62 6 years ago

    Seems like you can patent anything nowadays. Creative even patented a software algorithm that was being used in Doom 3, but in that case they struck a deal with Id to put in support for some of their new audio standards, and they would let them use the algorithm.

    Another company without a reputation to protect could easily have sued for licensing fees/royalties though.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 18:16

  • vincenzo #63 6 years ago

    It's still way too early to say whether sony will win again the "consoles war"or not, but , as far as i'm concerned, i could have done with a more dvd player-looking PS3: no Lcd screen displaying the time and date of the day, or the content of the hard disk or the kind of disk inserted? no cgi pretty hostess to welcome you when you turn on your console? How sad...And, from what i've seen, we're still very far from "reality-looking" games, or "cinerealistic games" as put by Sony...

  • projectmayhem #64 6 years ago

    looks to me like immersion wants to have another licensee and have their law suit dropped, all the while looking like the bigger man in all of this.

  • redd #65 6 years ago

    so is force feedback still "so last gen"?

  • SeesThroughAll #66 6 years ago

    @Triggerhappytel:

    That concept you showed is for an accelerometer/tilt sensor, what does that have to do with the rumble feature?

    EDIT: Ok, now I got it. Read the above posts.
    Edited by 1 at 19/05/06 @ 19:26

  • Darkuss #67 6 years ago

    Too many mistakes from Sony....

    Firstly, it was the removal of some key features (2x HDMI, etc...), then came the exorbitant price point, followed by the confusion over the 2 different version....

    What's wrong with Sony, anyway?

  • WicKeD #68 6 years ago

    They hit the self-desturct button?

  • Darkuss #69 6 years ago

    perhaps the playstation empire is decaying....

  • Metalfish #70 6 years ago

    So if MS own 10% of immersion, does that mean they'd get 9mil of sony's fine?

    If so, ouch for Sony.

  • Pixofied #71 6 years ago

    Normally I wouldn't post, but... If the PS3 is going to be 100% backwards compatible with all of the PS2 games. Hows the AP Sensor going to work in the Metal Gear Solid games? And I'm sure a lot of other games use it in a similar way... They are pretty fucked without rumble though, I'll surely miss it.

    - Anyone know if there will be an adapter to use the PS2 controllers?

  • miiiguel #72 6 years ago

    Wait a minute...! Dind't Sony say that they werent going to use rumble feature because it was sooooo last gen ?

  • Darkuss #73 6 years ago

    "rumble is last-gen" that's fiddle-faddle

  • c.lo #74 6 years ago

    This aint Immersion's wrong doing, Its the Samurai executive suits at Sony who care more about 'Honour' than delivering a better gaming experience. I bet even the 1st party devs are pissed off with Sony too.

    Ill say this again. CORPORATE!

    ;)

  • Eighthours #75 6 years ago

    Wonder how long it will take for a 3rd party PS3 Rumble controller is made...

    Trouble is, if it's not in the default controller, no developers will be coding for rumble. Hopefully Polyphony will still be providing proper support for Logitech's force feedback steering wheels though

  • kangarootoo #76 6 years ago

    @Darkuss

    "Firstly, it was the removal of some key features (2x HDMI, etc...)"

    You consider 2 HDMI ports to be a key feature? Seriously?

    The majority of the general public don't own even a single HDMI device won't do for years to come (scart is still the standard remember and that has been around for aeons).

    What would you even do with the second port?

  • chavatar #77 6 years ago

    A console with 2 screens: that would never work ;)

    But seriously, as the man says, 2 HDMI always was and is pure psychobabble.

  • drumbaby #78 6 years ago

    Even if Sony are only supporting 3rd party rumble add ons, and rumble in games, that's still going against the ruling, right? IIRC, a fair few PS2 games are due to come off the shelves along with the PS2/ DS2, if the injunction goes ahead fully.

  • BMXer #79 6 years ago

    I say Sony do what you want, As you always do! COz im not going to be Getting A PS3. This Gaming Generation is gonna See you hit the back foot. You need to gain respect of the comsumer again b4 you dominate again.

    I'll stick with the the PS2 its still great!

  • smoothpete #80 6 years ago

    Ah well, if I really need rumble I suppose I could just get one of those third party pads from Logitech or whatever the fuck they're called. They're not so up their own arse they won't pay a license fee it appears.

    But doesn't the game have to have rumble programmed in first? It's not just to do with the pad surely, unless it was sensing the rumble from the sound bass settings which would just make the pad a kind of shit subwoofer add on if you see what I mean

  • miiiguel #81 6 years ago

    kangarootoo: that's exactly what everyone said about the weird extra-360 functions that Sony bragged about (like the 7 controllers, 2x HDMI...), but all the Sony fanboyz (EG included ) said: no, no this is what nex-gen is all about...: Like the portuguese say: "the fish is caught by the mouth".
    And I bet sooner than later Sony will release a PS3 version with no BD drive, to lower the price, or.., the biggest slice of the PS2 buyers (casuals) wont get it.

    Edited by 3 at 20/05/06 @ 16:10

  • Rambaldi #82 6 years ago

    Funny how all the Sony fanboys blame MS and Immersion for this...and those of us with an ounce of objectivity can see how arrogant and childish Sony are for refusing to accept that they willingly infringed on someones else's copyright and won't even accept a court ruling on the matter.

    Fuck Sony.
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 17:37

  • drumbaby #83 6 years ago

    And I bet sooner than later Sony will release a PS3 version with no BD drive, to lower the price

    What will they use to run all (literally) the PS3 games that come on BD Rom?

  • thinktank #84 6 years ago

    Don't know about you, but if i were a sony fanboy i'd be getting pretty sick of holding essentially the same pad since 1995, that’s 11+ years!

    Suppose they did tack on some new features

    analogue sticks,
    rumble,
    tilt sensing,

    I hope they at least sent ninty some flowers ;)
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 18:34

  • effinwooly #85 6 years ago

    no rumble = no PS3 !!! pay it sony .......please !!!

  • miiiguel #86 6 years ago

    drumbaby: good point, but, I still can't figure why PS3 games are going to come all (?) in BD media if, at least the majority (not to say all), are going to fit in a regular DVD9. Just for the sake of "trendyness" ?
    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 19:38

  • thinktank #87 6 years ago

    @miiiguel

    Unless sony make it a requirement to produce games BD (Do they i don't know?) i can see a lot of devs simply sticking with DVD9. When you take into acount BD disks cost more to produce why would you bother?

  • JediMasterMalik #88 6 years ago

    BD does mean that developers won't (at least for a while) have to worry about compressing and reducing the game files to fit onto a disc. It could theoretically reduce development costs. (I'm just making this up but I know that currently with some games they have to compress files and cut thingsform the final game, so it makes sense)

  • thinktank #89 6 years ago

    Case and point:

    Oblivion didn't even fill a whole DVD9

    Blue-Ray = pointless expenditure

  • JediMasterMalik #90 6 years ago

    Well to be fair Oblivion may be a huge game, BUT if you play it you'll notice that many things such as models and textures are merely repeated over and over again. They may have done this for simplicity or because it's simply quicker to make a game this way. But with a larger disc size, if they wanted to, they could increase the variety of textures and models, like all of the caves wouldn't look so similar.

    Apparently GTA:SA had difficulty getting everything into oe disc so...

  • thinktank #91 6 years ago

    I think repeated textures is more of a man power issue rather than a storage issue. As for GTA:SA I will have to take your word for it. These are however individual games, if you look across the entire range of ps2 and xbox game very very very few used more than one dvd. The previous cd generation had a large number of games on multiple cd's therefore a new format was required, this is simply not the case this time round.

    When PC games start using 2 DVD's then its time to START thinking about a new medium as PC games are always first to push graphical boundries.

    Also a cd's hold 800mb a dvd holds 9gb, thats a gain of over 900%

    where as BD holds 25gb a gain of only around 280% over dvd

    also when u consider to 2 dvd's can hold almost as much 1 BD and 2 dvd's are cheaper to produce, there really is no need BD

    I don't like paying for something i don't want or need, sort it sony!

    Edited by 1 at 20/05/06 @ 20:47

  • BMXer #92 6 years ago

    Hi My mate Spong has this to say!!!!

    SPONG "I'll hold my hands up and admit I was a bit of a Sony fanboy. But the last few weeks have seen that change. I think Sony are starting to get too big for their own good and hopefully, the release of the PS3 will see them take a bit of a beating (in Europe anyway). The idea of them only releasing the larger 60Gb version is out of order. The £300+ price tag for the 20Gb version was bad enough, but £425!!!??? They can shove it where the sun don't shine. I can't see me getting a PS3 for a very loooooong time. I used to think everything Sony did was pure gold, but now I'm starting to think they're more involved in trying to out do Microsoft and Nintendo and have forgotten it's about the consumers. Sony, if you're listening, I hope you fall flat on your ass!!!"

  • miiiguel #93 6 years ago

    As far as I heard Oblivion had all major cities hadcrafted by a distinct team, as up until now, I've played for +80 hours, and I havent noticed any repition, at least it seems. I'm going to try to figure out for sure, though.
    Edited by 3 at 20/05/06 @ 21:51

  • Xypher #94 6 years ago

    It's great to see the consumer taking a stand against corporate BS.....

    Lets just hope Sony (and others like them) get the message...





    Keep on Raging ;)

  • Kami #95 6 years ago

    What people have forgotten is that whereas Nintendo introduced the "rumble-pak", that was an add-on. Sony are the ones who made it common practice to put rumble IN the controller as standard (Yes, that is me complimenting Sony). The fact that people are so used to rumble technology now is down to Sony themselves.

    ... if people are turned off the PS3 controller because of the lack of rumble, then I'm afraid Sony have no-one else to blame but themselves on that front...

  • PedroMCi #96 6 years ago

    I think Sony is not willing to pay for one simple reason. Immersion just wants a cut on what's Sony's profites. I don't think Immersion ever want to go to war against MS. It's all about quantities. For each Xbox, there's like 10 PS2s. So, for Immersion, MS is peanuts. That's why I think Ms settled and bought part of the company. It's 9m for MS if they win. Also, as someone asked, what about the 3rd perty controllers? Immersion doesn't give a damm about their patent, they just figured how to patent some technology that they never put to pratice and sue the biggest player in the market to get a cut on his profit. And all this is only possible because of the stupid patent concept that you have in the States. You can patent anything over there and them sue anyone you tries to do something, even if researched and developed by them. You just need to put your patent down first.

    I'm no sure, but i think this happend with Telegraph or with Electricity. The thing is that the Inventor that credit for it, was not the first one to developed it or even testing it, but the first to go for the patent. The other guy was worried in trying to make it work while the owner of the patent, patented the concept them tryed to do something with it. Patent laws in the states are a laughing matter most of the time but in some situations might become a true show stopper for innovation. And since it's so easy to sue in that country, peolple make money out of patenting everything they can think off. Even Apple tried to patent "Apple"! If they've suceded, your supermaket guy would have to pay Apple royalties for every apple he would sell and more royalties just to have a sign saying "Apples - 1,45€ Kg". Crazy americanos!!!!

  • foamy #97 6 years ago

    You PS3 buyers don't need to get all worried. A month after the launch or so, you'll probably see 3rd party rumbled controllers. China wins.

  • Rambaldi #98 6 years ago

    As has been said, developers won't bother coding rumble into games if the official pads don't feature it.

  • Rambaldi #99 6 years ago

    Having said that, it looks like quite a few won't bother coding for the gyroscopic feature in it! LOL!

  • JediMasterMalik #100 6 years ago

    I think a good use of the motion sensor would be as dodging in 3rd person action games.

  • Xerx3s #101 6 years ago

    "Well to be fair Oblivion may be a huge game, BUT if you play it you'll notice that many things such as models and textures are merely repeated over and over again. They may have done this for simplicity or because it's simply quicker to make a game this way."

    Welcome to the next generation. The more detailed the work becomes, the longer it takes to dev. The more you will see devs take these kind of shortcuts. The games you have in mind will take a factor x more resources, manhours & money to dev, if they dont use these tactics, it will become impossible for anyone to make anything that will give them a profit or wont turn into a DNtF. Besides, this isnt something new, this has been going on for some time now. It has nothing to do with medium space as Oblivion doesnt even take up half of the disc.

    "But with a larger disc size, if they wanted to, they could increase the variety of textures and models, like all of the caves wouldn't look so similar.

    Apparently GTA:SA had difficulty getting everything into oe disc so..."

    Multiplying the dev factors with a factor x in a time where devs are already complaining about how much resources it takes to make anything even remotely interesting?

    There are more factors at work than just the size of the disc.

  • Xerx3s #102 6 years ago

    "You PS3 buyers don't need to get all worried. A month after the launch or so, you'll probably see 3rd party rumbled controllers. China wins."

    LoL & true. :)

  • Ravenlore #103 6 years ago

    I have all three consoles and ALWAYS turn off the rumble. WHY because it does not make me feel any more immursion with it on than off. BUT I do feel the negitive effects of using it as my arms alwasys hurt when I get a new game and it is on.

    WHAT I am surprised of is that there is not a class action suit for carpal tunnel syndrome. IT has affected many people and if children start to show signs of it I am sure LAW SUITS ARE SURE TO FOLLOW!!

  • chronom4n #104 6 years ago

    @kami, thanks for pointing that out. Even the DC had an rumble pack added on which you had to buy, and sony had made it integral to the controller and i remember the 1st game to have that and it was GT1. man that was an experience not to be forgotten. And now, I for one have taken it more or less for granted. But, the only downside to the rumble pack is that it has given me a lot of pains on the wrists. Oh here is an interesting note.....anyone play that rally game by microsoft. man if rumble was not enough to set off an earthquake, i do not know what rumble is!

  • 3william56 #105 6 years ago

    Jeez - so much nerd froth over something so trivial.

    Rumble's nice, but hardly critical. The batteries on my wireless PS2 controllers faded to the point that it turned off the rumble to conserve power a month or so back, and it (to me) hasn't made the slightest difference.

    Where are all the complaints about PC mouse/keyboards not having rumble? Really important feature, huh? Hell, the control method for the majority of PC games is only half analogue. Doesn't stop folks having buckets of fun.

    All this whinging about the PS3 spec. So they aimed for a rock star spec and economic reality knocked them down a peg or two? Big deal - some of the folks here are talking like they got welshed on a promised kidney transplant. You'll still be getting the equivalent of an upgrade-free ninja gaming PC for a third of the price, with (if you want to use it) a free hi def DVD player and a bunch of other toys. Try to be a bit grateful huh, children?

  • fred161 #106 6 years ago

    i agree with 3william56, maybe i'll miss it for the first few days but after a while i'll forget it. PC gamers never have a problem do they.

    Or if Sony did want to include it, why not get wrists straps or something with rumble devices so that its still felt but not inside the controller, and it would probably require a more innovative design than the 'haptic' rumble they alledgedly stole.

  • CheapSheep #107 6 years ago

    GTA: SA easily squeezed onto a DVD9 - off the top of my head, think it weighed in at around 6GB - if anything, less! While it wasn't the prettiest game, neither it nor Oblivion would look any better on Blu Ray because to be frank, the developers wouldn't have the time to use all that space. I mean, it was rushed out as is, so would they really have found time to use the extra space to make the bushes all pretty and dynamic?

    Oh, and rumble is rubbish, and I have an extra-long annoying smiley to prove it - ^______________^