PS3 Virtua Tennis 3 in 1080p Comments by Tom Bramwell

Seeing how we're on the subject of the mythical 1080p resolution...

Rumours of EA is aiming to hit 1080p with Army of two

Translation from dutch is required.

Also somewhere on 1up is a pic of a PS3 running VT3 in 1080p (or so they claim) so it looks like they have actually hit that res.

VT3 running in 1080p

"Why are people dissing PS3 games outputting 1080p."

Because fanboys are supposed to criticize any feature in consoles they don't own.

EDIT: or they don't plan to own, given the PS3 is not out yet ;-)

i run most my PC games as 1200p (1920x1200) and my graphics card is nearly two years old so 1080p isn't really a big deal :P

@ Yossarian great!, good for you but it wouldn't confirm anything to anyone who knows what the fudge they are talking about :p

*sips brew and sits back with a sigh*...Ah well they never learn do they? I thought everyone knew with the 360 they simply chose not to support it, it simply cannot output that resolution(even though it would be just as capable as the PS3 of acheiving it). Well we'll just have to wait till those people realise that with 360 they thought more about 720p/1080i with a much better AA solution(4x @ 60fps lets see how the comparison fairs at those settings when the time comes :D).

"Take Garulon for instance. Sounds like he's going to be spending time counting the frames per second and doing math instead of concentrating on the game experience. "

The game experience is unrelated to visual fidelity now? Look, if Resistance actually did 1080p/60 - that is, 1080 lines at 60 frames per second, that'd be FANTASTIC. At 30FPS there's no difference - you might as well plug a 360 playing Perfect Dark Zero into a 1080P-capable telly, let it decode the fields into progressive and call Perfect Dark Zero a 1080P title.

Calgon: I don't know if you are a developer or not but it should be quite easy for you to see as you are stating it yourself.

By reducing the amount of fillrate expensive tasks by doing various coarse culling algorithms and even sorting 3d-objects you could help the GPU.

Just think outside the box a little.

Calgon - you seem to be pretty set on proving the PS3's 1080p feature as useless by spouting a load of technical jargon that seems impossible to prove either way. Why the hang-up?

"Christ...from the moaning going on in this thread, you'd think Sony were shitting through your letterbox, not offering a neat little feature. "

It's "moaning" because unless the game is running at 60 frames per second there's no advantage over 1080i/60. _None_. With all the "more powah" crap debunked and the BluRry shown up for the slow, unnecessary trojan-horse it is, Sony are working their way down the bullet points to try to justify their obscene cost over the XBox 360. I imagine they'll try to spin BlueTooth at some point, or the three extra USB ports. :)

@disc wouldnt culling on the CPU(especially with the PS3 architecture) be way to slow to give any advantage?(infact maybe worse you only have so much bandwidth and culling can be costly here) and sorting code is usually a given isnt it?

Calgon: Also you should realize that the PS3 has two banks of memory. Main memory at 25.6 Gb/sec or something and the RSX vram as you yourself mentioned at 22.5 Gb/sec.

Since the RSX can read from both banks what's to stop developers from not using them?

JHuxley I never said it was useless(even though I dont need it and would much prefer 720p with 4x AA ;) ) I was just illustrating to those who are jumping the gun on the whole power comparison issue.

@disc because its already been brought to our attention that the Cell cannot read from the GDDR3 memory at the same speed as RSX can but nothing is stopping them they just have to determine whether it's worth it for the reason they want to use it(ie will it just slow things down or not).

edit: :D thanks herod that was a big booboo(not seen that diagram in long while and Im knackered) but the point still holds up Cell will still have to read from GDDR3(thats where the framebuffer is afterall... a work around for any Cell framebuffer processing could be transfering pixel data from GDDR3 to XDR and then back to GDDR3 but thats still not ideal nor efficient).

Fair enough Calgon. Still seems like conjecture at this point though.

@ Garulon: funny how all these experts on the comparitive strengths and weaknessses of next-gen technology come out of the woodwork to post on a comments section of a gaming website. Wait and see, that's all I'm going to say.

Calgon: O_o

"@ Garulon: funny how all these experts on the comparitive strengths and weaknessses of next-gen technology come out of the woodwork to post on a comments section of a gaming website. Wait and see, that's all I'm going to say."

Wait and see if 1080P/30 is the same as 1080i/60? No need, it _is_.

this will improve the game to no end.
really.

Disc: right back at you o_0 as you can see there was no point bringing that up theres no advantage to it... oh now I think I know what you mean if you meant the comparison to PC video cards(back tracking?) then the bandwidth is still around half(ie not much better at all and you will still have less memory than 512mb available dedicated to graphics).

Garulon indeed it is you must understand they dont really care, they just see this as a way to justify the long wait and expensive price for the hardware, so they can say "well its more powerfull innit!" when its not really a good indication of anything of the sort.

The real reason why you should go progressive and not interlaced lies in the HDTV screens. See, progressive material looks better on video projectors and big ass televisions.

Here's the explanation why it's better to have progressive picture on DVD:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-5020...

And guess what, it's not just Sony's PR words for PS3 and their TVs:
"1080p is sometimes referred to in marketing materials as "True High-Definition" or "Full High-Definition". 1080p is currently the digital standard for filming digital motion pictures. Directors such as George Lucas (in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith) shoot their digital films in this high definition mode to be shown in theaters equipped with 1080p digital projectors.", says Wikipedia on 1080p.

And here's what some jerk says on CNet (David Carnoy
Executive editor, CNET Reviews):
"Progressive-scan formats such as 480p, 720p, and 1080p convey all of the lines of resolution sequentially in a single pass, which makes for a smoother, cleaner image, especially with sports and other motion-intensive content."

Whatever, you know. I am quite sure that small tag there is just a marketing ploy. Just like it's better to watch 480i, 720i than progressive, it's just a Sony's trick to make you think 1080p is better than 1080i. Of course it is because Xbox 360 can't push it. If it could, it would be for real.

'this will improve the game to no end. really. '

Only its looks. Really.

I bet the same people who think 1080p is crap think PCs should be able to display only 800x600 resolution. I mean, bigger monitors and bigger resolutions are not needed and they don't enhance anything, right?

"1080p is currently the digital standard for filming digital motion pictures."

Yes, at 24FPS, which gets ITC'ed up to 30Hz (or 25HZ for us PAL fans). Again, 1080p30=1080i/60

"Progressive-scan formats such as 480p, 720p, and 1080p convey all of the lines of resolution sequentially in a single pass, which makes for a smoother, cleaner image, especially with sports and other motion-intensive content."

Frame rate equals smoother images, which is why 720P/60 beats out 1080p/30 or 1080i/60 (=1080p/30) for sports etc. Interlacing is irrelevant on modern displays (ie a HD CRT should display the whole thing at 100Hz anyway so no flicker, and LCDs don't flicker at all, ever).

"it's just a Sony's trick to make you think 1080p is better than 1080i."

1080p/60 IS better than 1080i. 1080p/30 is EXACTLY THE SAME. Pushing a game as "1080p" at 30FPS is a sleazy marketing trick. Do you see?

I cant see why they are having a difficult time understanding that:

1080i @ 60fps

and

1080p @30fps

ARE the same workload, its simple logic.

Hang on a second...aren't you assuming the PS3's 1080p mode is 30fps? Where did you get that info from?

And considering devs are struggling to implement the feature at the moment, isn't it more logical to assume it's 60fps as, like you say, there's technically no difference between 1080i/60 and 1080p/30.

If it was just a marketing ploy they'd use it on all games, not just a few.

@JHuxley

"Who cares if not everyone will be able to take advantage right away? If you've got a TV capable of displaying 1080p, this is good news. If you haven't, I'm sure 1080i will look great too. Get over it."

Amen to that.


@FluffyTucker

"Jesus Christ, this country needs a policy of shooting kids that leave school without an English GCSE."

I would say amen to that too, but I think the logistics of finding that many bullets make it a futile desire. How about we say this country needs a policy of poking said kids in the ey with a pencil? The pencils can always be reused you see.

None of this is really very interesting or surprising is it?We all knew that the PS3 could output at 1080p(Not that it's of much use to the masses at the moment),and by god it's doing it,whoopedydoo!
It's amusing how most of you lot will jump into battle with eachother over absolutely any bit of news,always firing off your well revised list of specifiacations and what not at each other.Keep it up,I love it,makes me feel less geeky :)

All of this (now seemingly inescapable wave of anti-Sony toss accompanying every Sony article), seems to be based on the assumption that not a single person in an entire group of proffessional games journalists can tell the difference between a game running at 30fps over one running at 60fps.

Instead of projecting opinions of others motives about people being happy about this because they are trying to justify the price, consider that for months MS execs and obnoxious forum Sony-haters have been saying that 1080p would be impossible to achieve, and now they'll have to eat it. Seeing trolling negative doom-mongers and proffessional corporate nay-sayers proven wrong is reason enough for anyone who's read months of this baseless crap to be happy.

What does it matter if not many people have TVs that support it yet? Playstation's have a 10 year life-cycle. You want to tell me that having this option available from the get go is a bad thing? Sorry Sony, your new console isn't shit enough for us right now, go away and come back when it's a bit more compromised. Perhaps you'd prefer they follow the MS business model and produce a 1080p upgrade console in a couple of years, with games that launch PS3's won't be able to play?

And as for LeDilettante deciding it's a useless feature because he just bought an HD TV that can't run it, well, I guess everyone else on planet Earth should wait till you change your telly?

But of course I'm very moved by the old primary school playground favourite "I could do that, but I don't wanna!" on behalf of 360 not supporting it, suck your lollypop and shut up.

JHuxley some of us arent assuming anything till its comfirmed(which is a much better attitude because we dont even know for sure if its even 1080p at all yet) and even if it was confirmed, Ive just been explaining theres a whole lot more to the big graphics debate.

Im done now though, Im hungry and tired(made spelling mistakes and errors in just about every post today... but Ive fixed-um-up good enough now) :D dinner time.

/laughs at nearly reaching 100 comments because one game hits 1080p res.

It was the "suck your lollypop" bit, right?

Hear me say all these spicy things and more on my premium rate chat-line 0898-739 739, that's 0898-SEX SEX!

Hughes. is that what they call a strawman arguement?

I dont recall anyone debating whether PS3 can output 1080p, see if the Sonyfanboys dont even understand whats being said than how the hell can they even begin to determin if anyones been "proven wrong"?

@Calgon

"strawman argument".

Oh thankyou! I've been trying to remember that term for soooooo long. That mechanic gets used on here daily and I just couldn't bloody remember what it was called.

That Wiki page is going to save me so much typing in future :)

"Hang on a second...aren't you assuming the PS3's 1080p mode is 30fps? Where did you get that info from?" It's nothing to do with the PS3 supporting 1080p at either 30Hz or 60Hz. I'm fairly sure it can do both.

"And considering devs are struggling to implement the feature at the moment, isn't it more logical to assume it's 60fps as, like you say, there's technically no difference between 1080i/60 and 1080p/30."

We _know_ Resistance is 30FPS. It's most likely they're struggling to push the vertical resolution up from 720 lines to 1080 lines; there's _very_ few 360 games that are 1080-native (Prey IIRC is one of those); if they can't do it they'll leave it at 720p and let the PS3 scale it up to whatever you want.

And I think this whole thing would be lot easier if there were game journalists who took the time to actually LEARN HDTV standards, rather than tippity-tapping Sony press releases unthinking into Eurogamer. All it would have took was one of you EG types asking "1080p/30 or 1080p/60?" for the whole edifice to come crashing down.

@Garulon

Our own lovely Eurogamer attests to Gran Turismo HD running at 60fps, although if that's true 1080p or not isn't really mentioned - http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?art...

Either way, you're just speculating.

@Calgon

Your inability to remeber it happening doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you expect me to provide links to every instance of aforementioned trolling simply because you either, didn't see it /have forgotten it /are pretending it never happened; I'm not in the habit of doing exhaustive weeks of research and providing a bibliography for forum posts. The evidence of my own eyes over months of gaming talk is not negated by your own ignoarance of it, nor does it make it a "strawman argument" a phrase which allows you to delude yourself that there is a nice way to call me a liar.

Your cheap usage of the word fanboy in an attempt to dismiss what people have said is plain ignorant and does nothing to raise the value of the non-technical aspects of your argument. But clearly you prefer the "bullshit baffles brains" approach. Spout enough numbers and people will go "Huh?" and shut up.

I don't think this should surprise anyone. VT3 is a first gen Lindbergh game, which runs on a 3ghz p4 with a 6800 gt (not even a gtx). The PS3 is running some insanely hyped processor with a speedy core clock and a 7900-class gpu. Why wouldn't they be able to take it and up the res, given a bit of time? It's not like Sumo aren't any good at ports.

Now, if AM2 bother their arses to put vf5 into 1080p I'd be a bit more impressed, that game is even more detailed, particularly the backgrounds.

@LeDilettante

Thank you for maintaining civility when responding to my serious question about whether Sony should wait until you are ready to buy a new television before releasing their console. Some people might respond by calling me a retard, I'm sure we're both glad that there aren't many offensive little piss-stains like that on the internet!

"Our own lovely Eurogamer attests to Gran Turismo HD running at 60fps, although if that's true 1080p or not isn't really mentioned -

That's definitely 1080p/60. That's fine.

"Either way, you're just speculating. "

Speculating on what? That 1080p/30 is the same as 1080i/60? Because it _is_.

I feel sorry for Resistance, a launch-title "tick the boxes" FPS that's suddenly pimped out like a ten-dollar whore because it's the only major title Sony have right now that they can use to push the "strengths" of the PS3:

"It needs 22 gigs!" Because it has the same game binaries multiple times for different languages on the same disk.

"It's 1080p!" except at 30FPS (proven multiple times) it's the same as 1080i.

Watch out for horrid tacked on "six axis" support for the poor thing any day now.

On a different matter,I just tried to have a discussion on the Bungie/Halo 3 forums,about Halo 3 and Resistance,just stated that Bungie need to get a bit more exciting info out about their game before the positive Resistance hype goes into overdrive.The sad fucks on there tore me to shreds.It seems you can't in any way have a doubt about Halo 3 on Bungie's forums :)

It's funny how happy everyone is, even though it's something the PS3 touted from day 1.

Like, "they finally didn't lie about something!" The Sony camp must be celebrating... "we finally pulled off something we said we were going to!"

Yes, if only they crippled PS3 for the 10 years of its life-span, during which time no 1080p capable televisions will be sold anywhere in Europe!

"Speculating on what? That 1080p/30 is the same as 1080i/60? Because it _is_. "

No, speculating that PS3 games will be 1080p/30. Just because one game can't quite reach 1080p/60, doesn't mean that the PS3 isn't capable of it. Wait and see.

Thankfully X360 does not support 1080p

?

So if a console can output at a slightly higher resolution, it's a bad thing?


:D ROFL

I provided my reasoning for that in the post.

Yes, and it really shouldn't affect you if the videogames development is skewed towards US audience. Why should you care? Just because you hate americans?

It doesn't matter for which region they care to provide the higher resolutions, if at some point all regions will benefit from it.

"No, speculating that PS3 games will be 1080p/30. Just because one game can't quite reach 1080p/60, doesn't mean that the PS3 isn't capable of it."

Where have I said that the PS3 is incapable of it? I imagine anything of a sufficiently limited graphical complexity like fighting games, tennis games, and direct PS2 ports (hello GT HD!) would easily be capable of it - basically you just need to (a) have 1080 vertical lines in yer frame buffer and (b) output at 60 frames per second.

I'm just pointing out that _unless_ the game is 60FPS, 1080p is the same as 1080i.

"What matter is the next 5 years, The kind of people who fork out for all the latest HD tech are not going to be playing PS3 until 2017. They will get PS4 when it comes in about 5 years and perhaps 1080p will be more meaningful then."

You appear to have the future mapped out in a little fantasy world in your head. It's a shame you aren't in charge of every game company's strategy, Nostradamus.

See, this is the only reason I'm pissed at Sony for the delay in the PS3. I don't mind the shortage, and can wait to see the PS3 before deciding which toy to buy next. But another 3 months of geek w*nkers spouting off 100 posts about a console they've never used, and games they've never played is just making being a game player an utter f**king drag and taking EG from being a fun place to hang out at lunchtime to a tedious dinner party full of boring opinionated pseuds and loud mouthed tossers.

Christ, stroll on March just to shut these pr*cks up.

Even in America, there aren't that many people toting a tv that can display at 1080p. I don't know anyone who has one. I don't even know anyone who knows anyone.

And why are all the 360 fans getting so bent out of shape? Who cares! The games for both systems are going to be mostly the same with each getting a few select exclusives. So maybe the PS3's games will look a tad better... get over it. The xbox now looks better than the PS2 and nobody seems to care. The PS3 has a year and a half on the 360 - it's bound to look at least a LITTLE better. And the fact that it will only be a minimal graphical difference is a testament to how well the 360 was built from the beginning. I'll take 720p and Live anyday to anything Sony has to offer.

@ Le Dilletante

"THAT really matters. Given how my family can't distinguish between SD and HD TV, I'm sure they'll spot the difference between 1080i and 1080p."

That is hilarious! And sums up so much of what HD is about right now: so much
cock waving nonsense!