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360 compatibility explained News
Xbox 360 News by Ellie Gibson
Following earlier indications that the Xbox 360 will only be backwards compatible with some Xbox games, Microsoft has attempted to clear up the issue by waffling on about chip architectures. And failed.
MS explains that the current Xbox uses an Intel processor, but the 360 will use IBM's Power chips. In addition, the NVIDIA graphics card is being replaced with an ATI one.
Different chip architectures means backwards compatibility problems, so all the old games will need to be “recompiled” for the 360. First on the list, says Microsoft, are the Halo titles.
But this raises more questions than it answers - just what does “recompiled” mean? Will we need to buy all our old games again if we want to play them on our next-gen console? Microsoft was unavailable for further comment at the time of writing, unfortunately.
Meanwhile, Sony and Nintendo are no doubt reveling smugly in the knowledge that their new machines will play all the classics in their respective back catalogues - giving gamers a huge choice of titles at launch.
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Comments: 1-48 of 48 in total
Poster
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Bit of a bummer this, but I can't blame MS for not wanting to pay Nvidia a royalty for every 360 sold. If I buy a 360 I'll probably sell the Xbox and games and make a clean start. None of the Xbox games I own are games I need to keep for life: Halo 2, Links 2004, Colin McRae 2005, Simpsons Hit & run, Burnout 3, and Voodoo Vince.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 19/05/05 @ 16:33
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if they have licensing issues they should take the hit, i think bill can just stretch to it - one of the joys of the PS2 is being able to chuck vandal hearts or an old pinball game on occasionally
dont care about the technical aspects, and nor will most gamers, this is a big tick for the PS3 - bad move from MS |
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ElephantMonkey
19/05/05 @ 16:10
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" Yes, the obvious way this will work will be that you
download a recompiled EXE to your HDD and the game will read the data off the CD/DVD as ususal. Sorted! There may be potential for speed optimizations here, too." I don't think recompiling is as simple as changing an .exe file. there are much more(many subclasses) in a program than the initial .exe(the main class) that starts. I always thought that a company like MS would be able to make an emulator. They have 3x3.2GHz PowerPC CPUs and one really fast ATi chip and need to emulate a 700Mhz x86 CPU and an old nvidia chip. They probably have every little detail of those parts needed to make an emulator so what is the problem? They already emulate x86 windows programs on PowerPC Macs with their virtual PC program so they even have a headstart.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 19/05/05 @ 17:11
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Lothar Hex
19/05/05 @ 16:50
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The Xbox 360 confuses me more and more.
*Watches War of Gears Demo* ooo shiny... |
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Sky Blue Sam
19/05/05 @ 16:58
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Yes, the obvious way this will work will be that you
download a recompiled EXE to your HDD and the game will read the data off the CD/DVD as ususal. Sorted! And the people without a broadband connection will do what exactly? I didn't think you could use Live without Broadband? |
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its very difficult. basically the big-guns will be recoded and recompled to work on xbox360 and released as a download.
even if you wrote a x86 emulation core. emulating the graphics card shader effects would be next to impossible. telling two brands of graphics cards to do the same thing doesn't always mean you get a result which looks the same.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 19/05/05 @ 18:08
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I don't quite understand the chipset argument. XBox uses an API like DirectX so if the functions are the same in both (I guess the X 360 will support the current functions to allow easier development) then the specific architecture should not matter.
Similarly you can run the same software on ATI/NVidia and Intel/AMD chipsets on the PC. |
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"properly written" directx code should run on both chipsets, the problem is, given a fixed platform you can get huge efficiency gains when you write things specific to that chip and so devs will do so to allow them to show off their whizzy new gfx engine that puts all other games to shame.
that in itself might not be a problem with suitable emulation, but ms don't own the ip rights to the nvidia chip so would likely face certain licencing issues if they emulated it. and even then emulation is generally flakey. and anyone knows that claims of being able to run the same game independantly of your amd/intel & ati/nvidia chip can be a little on the spurious side ;) |
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moggsy: Who's to say the HDD won't come with the required backwards compatible EXEs pre-installed? Anyway, I suspect the % of Xbox gamers who care about BC without broadband will be relatively small.
ElephantMonkey: I'm not saying it is *easy* to recompile the code for a different core but it is possible and this is the most logical approach for MS to take. |
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ermm, i never got it. You buy a state of the art machine, and then play all the games that you have played many times already and hold nothing new while you could play all new games with far better shit in it. Why even bother getting a new console then (thats kinda like admitting that the console doesnt have any really good games at the moment that are worth buying)?
Oke, i understand that it is a plus when it does work, but if its such a big fuss to get it right, why bother spending resources at it? Honestly, how many games will you use again (other than "Owwww! Look how fast it loads now!; oke, yawn, Ghost Recon 3, anyone?")? |
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TardKommando
20/05/05 @ 00:43
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FUD.
From MS: “We’re not sure where this came from, and is incorrect. At launch, Xbox 360 will be backward compatible with the top Xbox games. Our goal is to have every Xbox game work on Xbox 360. You will NOT need to purchase a new ‘version’ — your original games will work on Xbox 360.” Taken from: http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/19/no-you-do-not-need-to- recompile-your-xbox-games/ Before you fly off the handle and slam me for linking to some random blog - that blog is the blog of the Xbox Live Director of Programming. |
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3william56
20/05/05 @ 01:04
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So your choices are: have your HDD arriving stuffed full of fixes for games you might or might not have, or backward compatible will be limited to folks with Live / Broadband for downloads? Oh. Bl**dy genius, that is.
Whether they eventually make it work or not, it's still a complete stuff up. |
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HenryMancini
20/05/05 @ 02:06
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Actually 3William56 - no. They have said nothing like that at all.... once again it looks like the Eurogamer/Gamesindustry massive have been having their articles written for them by the Sony FUD machine.
Look at the link to www.majornelson.com above, go read that article. Games DO NOT need to be recompiled. They DO NOT need to have a ton of patches on the hard disk. You DO NOT have to have Live. The complete stuff-up (AGAIN) is in this sites coverage. F'ing shocking. (I am the typo king, yes).
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most recently on 20/05/05 @ 03:07
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Don't know about you guys/gals and xbox(360), but I think backwards compatibility is very important. PS2 was my first contact with console gaming, and as it grew on me, I wanted to play the predecessors of the titles i loved on the PS2... or titles mentioned in current game reviews as being classics of their respective genre. (And I expect a few people will be interested to learn what this FF VII thing is that everyone's so excited about.) So I think, even if you're new to gaming and don't have a large back catalogue of games, without BC, you don't really have a chance to learn about the history of gaming... might not be important to many people, but I enjoyed being able to play Xenogears after I finished Xenosaga.
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Running some code on a different CPU than it was designed and compiled for screams "emulation" to me. There are usually two emulator designs : interpreter (slowest but pretty accurate) and dynamic recompiler (faster but possibly less compatible).
Now this article does not allow to say for sure, but it seriously hints at a dynamic recompiler emulation engine. What makes it dynamic is that recompilation occurs when the program is running, so it is unlikely to see downloadable executables or new versions of old games (apart from the odd high-def rerelease). IMHO, grain of salt, who cares either way?, etc. |
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Eurogamer just cant be objective at present. They entitle one article towards clearing up the tech demo v's fmv debacle which doesn't clear it up for anyone but them and the sony guy they interviwed. They then entitle another article 'X360 compatibility explained' which doesn't clear it up at all. The sub header 'but not very well' should apply to your article. I mean what microsoft representative did you get this from?
Sure the title is tongue in cheek but are they taking the piss here?
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most recently on 20/05/05 @ 08:13
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Amusing. The number of you saying it's not important, and it doesn't matter, and noone cares about backards compatibility anyway....when the possibility seems to be a remote one.
Yet the number of you who will be overjoyed when Major Nelson's blog about it being a feature of Xbox 360 turns out to be the truth. Heheheh, whatever Msoft do it's okay. :)
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most recently on 20/05/05 @ 09:17
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The tone of this article is shocking! No quotes, just snidey speculation, and dishonest implications that everyone will have to repurchase their XBox games for backwards compatibility. Um, hate to state the obvious guys, but that's not backwards compatibility. Are EG going to print a follow-up with the news that the old games will work on the Xbox360 as is?
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So I'll be paying again to buy new versions of Xbox games on the 360, M$$$$ indeed.
Though how important is this? I've rarely used the compatibility mode of my PS2 for more than the 5 minutes it takes to see how far games came between PS and PS2. Also most people who have the old games will probably have an old console too somewhere. I just hope the 360 is compatible with my old gargantian xbox controller... here's hoping.. |
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----
Amusing. The number of you saying it's not important, and it doesn't matter, and noone cares about backards compatibility anyway....when the possibility seems to be a remote one. Yet the number of you who will be overjoyed when Major Nelson's blog about it being a feature of Xbox 360 turns out to be the truth. Heheheh, whatever Msoft do it's okay. :) ----- Not necessarily blind M$ fan madness - could just be that there are different people which different points of view, some who mind about compatibility and some who do not. |
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Lothar Hex
20/05/05 @ 09:31
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Head to this link ( http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/19/no-you-do-not-need-to-
recompile-your-xbox-games/ ) to see Major Nelson (head of Xbox Live) confirm that you will NOT have to buy new versions of your Xbox games.
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most recently on 20/05/05 @ 10:32
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From EG sister site -
"At launch, Xbox 360 will be backward compatible with the top Xbox games," Xbox PR manager Michael Wolf told GamesIndustry.biz today. "Our goal is to have every Xbox game work on Xbox 360. You will NOT need to purchase a new 'version' - your original games will work on Xbox 360." So there you go. |
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I like, "new binary" = backward compatibility!!?!?! That is impressive spin.
That is way cool. I hope nobody uses a lot of inline assembly in their code or hit the hardware directly! If so I suspect they will be a ... ermm "not high priority game" It's like buying the game on a PC and they give you a Mac binary free o' charge! I suspect it will be delivered by Live(and datafiles would be used from original media). |
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Why are some people assuming that we'll have to download patches or rebuy old Xbox games to be able to play them on Xbox 360?
Microsoft have stated the complications in getting old Xbox games running that's all. It's likely that one of the reasons ALL Xbox's have a hard drive is because the emulation software and all the other code needed to run original Xbox games is tucked away on there, and running games will be completely transparent and hassle free as it is on PS2. I'd love to be able to play all my old games with 4xFSAA built in, 60fps minimum framerate in all games and high definition as standard, kind of like how the PS2 smooths PSone textures and speeds up loading times for old PS games. That would be really nice and make the games less dated visually. |
Comments: 1-48 of 48 in total
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