MS cagey on HD commitment

By Ellie Gibson Published 16 November, 2005

Just what will PGR3 run at?

Microsoft has refused to confirm rumours that flagship title Project Gotham Racing 3 won't run at 720p - but they're not exactly denying it, either.

"The only performance number a gamer should care about is the output, as that is what is actually viewed and enjoyed," a Microsoft spokesperson told Eurogamer.

"Xbox 360 gives developers incredible flexibility to create the stunning hi-def images that gamers are currently enjoying. Different developers select different combinations of techniques to produce those amazing graphics, but it’s only the output that matters."

Microsoft has previously stated that all Xbox 360 games will run in high definition - according to a statement on Xbox.com, "Games are required to be authored for 720p and 1080i."

But a poster on the Bizarre Creations forum, going under the name of MoonFace, claimed that this wasn't the case with PGR3.

"I have a review build of PGR3 and every time we capture a screenshot (which takes directly from the graphics buffer inside the machine) it punts out at 1024x600," the poster wrote.

"This is unlike any of the other Xbox 360 games we have so far screegrabbed, which have all given screenshots of 1280x720... The signal is outputting at 720p and it fills the screen like anything else, but the fact is, the source is a 1024x600 display."

MoonFace went on to note that this "isn't exactly a reason to go and cancel a pre-order," saying he wouldn't have noticed unless capturing screenshots and that PGR3 "does look better than any other game I've ever seen."

Bizarre has declined to comment on MoonFace's claims, despite repeated requests from other posters - which is unusual, since PGR3 staff regularly post on the forum. Nor did Bizarre respond to Eurogamer's request for comment.

Microsoft did, however - and the spokesperson told us that this isn't an issue for gamers: "What is going on behind the scenes in the code or the HW to get the incredible visuals for Xbox 360 is not what gamers care about.

"They just care about playing great looking and innovative games, and that is exactly what Xbox 360 and the launch lineup has provided."

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (140) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Fatfish #1 6 years ago

    If it looks good, it looks good. As simple as that. Who cares whether it has 720 or 600 lines as long as the visuals hold true to the hype and screenshots.

  • All_Action_Hero #2 6 years ago

    more predictable anti-360 rhetoric from eurogamer.

    old rhetoric at that.

    yawn.

  • octo #3 6 years ago

    Interesting. Sounds like the old "non-denial denial".

    Personally I think it matters.

  • Teeth #4 6 years ago

    I was just about to say that too Arnie! How explicitly pro-Sony this site is!

    Or should I say "shite"!

    My god you are an almighty cockmonger.

  • chronom4n #5 6 years ago

    "The only performance number a gamer should care about is the output, as that is what is actually viewed and enjoyed," a Microsoft spokesperson told Eurogamer. then why oh why do microsoft keeping on ramming down our throats "the future of gaming is hi-def.?" i agree with you fatfish, so as long the game looks true to the screenshots we have seen, i am happy.

  • Yossarian #6 6 years ago

    that's a confirmation of the rumour if ever I read one. however, having seen what it looks like running, I simply don't care.

  • Dizzy #7 6 years ago

    Oh god.. what a bullshit story. What non-news is this.

    FatFish is 100% right...

    Maybe someone should report it runs at 60 fps?

  • The-Bodybuilder #8 6 years ago

    Quick questions EG, when the rumours (or fact) that the ps3 games at e3 were rendered, did you hunt down sony with e-mails to find out the truth?

  • Yossarian #9 6 years ago

    no, it renders it as something like 1000 x 600 (I could probably work the vertical lines out, but meh) and then upscales it, which in theory could create artifacting.

    edit: oh, he deleted his post
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 11:38

  • oceanmotion #10 6 years ago

    Well, its only one game out of many. They were rushed for launch. The title was needed so they cut a corner. Does'nt mean it will happen in the future. The time just was'nt there. Anyway if it looks great then there is no problem.

  • dbeamish #11 6 years ago

    well I think its a good news item. The fact that they can't get it running at 60fps is bad enough, but then the fact that they can't even get it running at 720p properly is really annoying. Will I notice a difference? Possibly not although I would assume large screens will show more blury textures than smaller ones. My biggest annoyance is the lack of 60fps. I assume all this will be fixed in PGR4 in 18 months time.

  • chacha #12 6 years ago

    "Quick questions EG, when the rumours (or fact) that the ps3 games at e3 were rendered, did you hunt down sony with e-mails to find out the truth? "

    rendered ps3 games, how dare you?
    please leave this site we will not have any wild accusations thrown around, the ps3 is the next generation you fool
    those were not pre-rendereed and for your information all those games also ran at 120fps

    /waits for all the blind fools stating they are unable to see any bias.

  • Talha #13 6 years ago

    @All_Action_Hero : MIcrosoft says that every 360 game will run at at least 720p. Someone finds out that this is apparently not the case with their FLAGSHIP LAUNCH RACER. Meaning that it is outputting LESS than what your display is capable of. Also meaning that it is calling into question one major selling mantra adopted by MS.

    EG reports it.

    How does that make them pro-Sony? This is getting sick. Just see how many other 360 stories there are on the site today.

    EDIT: ALthough I agree, when a game looks like this, nitpicking is unfair and you can't really tell the difference anyway, especially since I don't have an HDTV. So peace.

    EDIT 2: Lots of good 360 reviews (including PGR3) on IGN and GameSpot. Get, set, go!!!!
    Edited by 2 at 16/11/05 @ 11:45

  • redd #14 6 years ago

    1024x600 is one of the resolutions supported for VGA display. If the machine is currently set up for VGA output it will internaly render at the selected VGA resolution, it wont scale the output as it does when u plug it on a regular 4:3 tv.

  • Gurgeh #15 6 years ago

    Check the review scores for PG3. I don't think it matters.

  • caligari #16 6 years ago


    Ohhhhh...so it's a CAR GAME?

    That's worth the 279.99 alone right guys?

    Ahem.

  • Fatfish #17 6 years ago

    Now this IS news - 'FluffyTucker (self proclaimed graphics whore) says he's not bothered by technically 'substandard' hi-def output'!! Stop the press - almost as good a headline as 'Royal family in 5-in-a-bed love shocker'. ;)

  • Yossarian #18 6 years ago

    well I think its a good news item. The fact that they can't get it running at 60fps is bad enough, but then the fact that they can't even get it running at 720p properly is really annoying.

    as is my understanding, this was done to bump up the framerate towards the 60 mark.

    Talha, it does output at 720p, it just has 1024x600 at the frame buffer, which is why this was only noticed when games journalist began taking screens from there.

  • paulf #19 6 years ago

    theres some vids on http://www.x boxyde.com/news_2309_en.html whihc were captured at 480i and still look pretty testing. As for marketing departments lying - well whats new there

  • Yossarian #20 6 years ago

    the GameSpot video review has pretty good footage of PGR3. they even seem to have dealt with the little texture pop-ins some of the buildings had at X05.

  • caligari #21 6 years ago

    Sorry Frod. ;)

    I'm sure there will be many CAR GAMES, so maybe it's a good idea to hold back on the welding.

    XBOX360 - The Jeremy Clarkson of the console world?

    Discuss.

  • lennon #22 6 years ago

    Really old news and to me a non issue really. Sure if its true it could be better but Im not going to start a witch hunt over a game that was awesome in the last version and Im sure will provide more of the same in this. That is good enough for me to justify the £279.99 on its own.

  • chacha #23 6 years ago

    @ Talha

    Talha, are you a prick or just plain stupid
    Eurogamer are reporting on a rumour posted on the Bizzare forums, there is no evidence behind the story, it is just speculation.
    If you go onto the bizzare creations forum you will find that bizzare have stated that they do not comment on rumours and that the thruth will be found when the game is released.


    Also where were all the articles stating the ps3 stuff was rendered BS on the eurogamer website
    Talha you may wish to remain blind to the truth but dont have a go at others who dont wear rose tinted glasses when it comes to eurogamer.

  • Yossarian #24 6 years ago

    chacha, go away.

  • tengu #25 6 years ago

    Yeah chacha, because people who whine constantly are much better :/

  • caligari #26 6 years ago

    Kudos points for THAT answer

  • Dr_Actually #27 6 years ago

    "why oh why do microsoft keeping on ramming down our throats "the future of gaming is hi-def.?" "

    because they are desperate to play up their perceived USPs before PS3 steamrollers it technically...

    Then thing is with hi-def is that after you've played a game for ten minutes you kind of stop noticing it...

  • chacha #28 6 years ago

    USP's????

  • king_skins #29 6 years ago

    its wierd tho that when people started asking MoonFace for more details (setup, screen, how he had setup the resolutions on the console, how he was getting the screen shots from the buffer, where he got the game, how he got the game) he wouldn't answer...

    very strange this one...

  • Furbs #30 6 years ago

    Ultra Silly Penguins. Its the new lemmings game.

  • lennon #31 6 years ago

    "before PS3 steamrollers it"

    Or melts whichever happens first :)

  • Talha #32 6 years ago

    @cha cha: First of all before calling anyone a prick or stupid, it is a better idea to read their whole post.

    Second, OK maybe I have rose tinted glasses - since you are so clear in your vision the EG site is no longer for you. You seem to have a lot of time to not only read the third-rate news items on this site but respond to stupid forum posters.

    Third, differing from someone's opinion is NOT THE SAME AS HAVING A GO AT THEM. For one thing, I didn't call All_Action_Hero a prick.

    Edit: Four, read some of the other posts before this one. ;)




    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 12:09

  • Genji #33 6 years ago

    LATEST BREAKING NEWS

    The PS3 will cook you toast, while the X360 draws its processing power from the blood of sacrificial goats. Choose wisely!

  • chacha #34 6 years ago

    i apologise for my ineloquence on my last post
    but all i am statin is that, since when has it been common practice to report news based on what some geezah said on a forum. This news article is poorly researched and secondly gives a negative impression of PGR although their is no proof to substantiate any of the so called news in the article

  • Teeth #35 6 years ago

    Talha didn't call arnie a prick. I called him an almighty cockmonger, though.

  • Talha #36 6 years ago

    @Genji: Can it do dishes?

  • Genji #37 6 years ago

    All signs point to yes!

    My sources are reliable! Confidential, but reliable! Trust me!

  • Balor #38 6 years ago

    I can't believe Eurogamer would go to such lengths as to attack the excellent Bizarre Creations credibility in order to run their daily anti-360 rhetoric based on something some forum poster knocked up. I hope Eurogamer feel suitably ashamed.

    Tsk Tsk!

    P.S Your clutching at straws guys, despite your selective spin, the Xbox platform is a very strong platform, with some very strong IP (PGR inc.) and a very well regarded Online service. By all accounts the X360 is an excellent machine that builds upon the strengths of the Xbox and is lined up to feature even more exclusive IP.

    Alas, good luck with your campaign!

    EDIT: I bolded Online service for a reason, what could it be... ?
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 12:16

  • Derblington #39 6 years ago

    chacha - it's not poorly researched, they couldn't get people to talk. Those who did comment didn't say anything useful.

    Arnie - it's not negative to the 360 although it might make MS look tits to some people that care about this stuff. And if it's old it means that other websites/forums have covered it too, why don't you go and troll them?

  • Talha #40 6 years ago

    @Genji: Will it do it better than my PC with patch 2.1 of Microsoft Dishwasher 2.0? Or is the Cell processor only good at toasting?

    @Fluffy: Cheers man, where have you been lately?
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 12:18

  • Derblington #41 6 years ago

    Balor please don't follow Arnie. You're normally pretty smart...

  • Furbs #42 6 years ago

    Balor/arnie, what about that rumour that not all games will allow custom soundtracks despite what MS claimed?

    Whats that? Its not a rumour any more??

  • Yossarian #43 6 years ago

    lol @ those expecting the PS3 to 'steamroller' the 360.

  • Teeth #44 6 years ago

    Anything Arnie posts, Balor will post further down the thread :)

  • Genji #45 6 years ago

    @Talha

    It will be better than the PC version until the PC upgrade race catches up in a few months or so.

    But just you wait... the PS4 will have UNIMAGINABLE POTENTIAL HOUSEWORK APPLICATIONS.

  • Balor #46 6 years ago

    Derb, ditto!

    Am I not allowed an opinion, if it's the same as someone elses? In fact, it's seems to be an increasingly popular opinion that Eurogamer employs an Anti-360 rhetoric these days. :/

  • Genji #47 6 years ago

    Don't worry, the console won't work unless you have lots of goats.

  • king_skins #48 6 years ago

    USP = Unique Selling Points

    Dr_Actually @ technical superiority, you make it sound much better than in actually is. There is a Video on 1up, in the 360 hardware porn items that one of the guys said he talked to the guy that made the MGS4 video and he said that it was also possible on the 360...

  • Talha #49 6 years ago

    @Fluffy: Don't worry, if you believe the posters, this place is full of PS3 these days. For evidence, just look at the homepage. Second, it is a lame reason to desert me - you are seeing someone else, admit it you lying, cheating.... person!!!!

    @Genji: That is incredible news, I will be able to ditch my wife then!! (No wife = more money = X360 + PS3 + HDTV = heaven)

  • Genji #50 6 years ago

    Don't forget the goats!

  • Talha #51 6 years ago

    @Fluffy: Good, you are back in line. Stumble again and it will be your last.

    @Genji: Of course, goats can be put to various uses.

  • king_skins #52 6 years ago

    goats are nasty evil things, they look at me funny

  • All_Action_Hero #53 6 years ago

    the people are wising up to the truth behind these anti-360 stories.

    anyone care to discuss the PS3 killzone vid?

    no?

    didn't think so!

    muahaha

  • Talha #54 6 years ago

    And what would that 'truth' be? That EG are on a 10-million-pound a month retainer from Sony?

    I knew it, the soul-selling suckers.

  • Teeth #55 6 years ago

    troll troll troll
    troll

    troll troll

    fol de rol

  • Freek #56 6 years ago

    Yes ofcourse, it all makes sense now. One of the EG staffers has infact inflitrated Bizzare and is sabotaging the game in order to create a news story. This is bigger then Watergate!!

  • chacha #57 6 years ago

    @talha

    are you saying that you cant see any sort of anit-360 rhetoric being used on this site.
    Maybe its just me and my paranoid mins

    /oh i'm so confused

  • tengu #58 6 years ago

    Really, I hope my life never gets so consumed by a bloody computer games console that I feel the need to tear into anyone and anything that doesn't worship it like a deity.

    It's an entertainment device, not a lifestyle choice fellas.
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 12:51

  • Moz #59 6 years ago

    Some people do spout some crap don't they!

    Games have used trick to improve picture quality and effect since the being on gameing.

    MS's statement is quite correct, every game IS supporting 720p how they get to that image is irrelivant. If they chose at some point in the rendering pipeline to use a lower res in order to improve the polygon count or put models on screen or have better lighting effect at a better frame rate then so be it. It's not making the final result any worse in fact it's getting more out of the system.

    Other programers may chose to use lower res textures while keep the rendered image at 720p all the way through.

    It DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS THE FINAL OUT PUT IS AT 720P THEN MS's CLAIMS THAT ALL GAMES WILL SUPPORT 720P ARE STILL TRUE EVERY GAME PRODUCED IS GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT LOOK FEEL QUALITY IT AND YOU SHOULD JUDGE PURELY BY THAT!!!!!

  • Shyvah #60 6 years ago

    Did you know goats have rectangular pupils?

    http://ww w.thegoatraces.com/aboutgoats.html

  • HarryB #61 6 years ago

    leave off, as if you guys would even notice... even the geek, critical ones.

  • Les #62 6 years ago

    If I'm not mistaken, one of the big improvements of next-gen according to MS was that games would be HD. It's at least a bit strange that one of their flagship titles might run in pseudo HD, even if it will look fantastic none the less.

  • All_Action_Hero #63 6 years ago

    oh no, it's not just me questioning the anti microsoft rhetoric anymore!

    my army of darkness has arrived!

  • lennon #64 6 years ago

    Perhaps we could start a debate on the technicalities of what constitutes High Definition?

    Was it this site where pirates used to hijack threads?

  • Teeth #65 6 years ago

    'Rhetoric' is the word of the day!

    Can we ban arnie again yet? Each time it happens it tastes sweeter.

  • MrGrumpy.au #66 6 years ago

    If people are going to have a go a Bizarre/Microsoft then maybe at complaint to SONY is in order as GT4's 1080i mode is not true 1080 in the framebuffer it's scaled up just like what's happening with PGR3.

    It's really nothing to worry about.

    /shrugs

    EDIT:
    Fixed Spelling due to late night brain fade, must be the shock of Australia making the World Cup? o_O (Didn't think I'd ever see that in my lifetime...)
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 13:13

  • glaeken #67 6 years ago

    I am surprised Eurogamer have not picked up on the anti-360 story of the day ;) Check out the size of that external power supply on Anandtec. You could beat small mammals to death with it.

  • Talha #68 6 years ago

    @Glaeken: Actually they are writing a 10-page review of the power supply giving it 2/10, which they will post as the LEAD ARTICLE tomorrow.

  • Moz #69 6 years ago

    There is no debate as to what constitues HD.

    HD is (720p) is 1280*720.
    *
    For a rendering devise to be support 720p it need to be a box that outputs a signal at 1280*720. How it get's to that output is irrelevant.

    And before anyone starts DVD upscaling is totaly different as you are starting with a pre-rendered image.


  • Yossarian #70 6 years ago

    *shakes Moz's hand*

  • Darkedge #71 6 years ago

    PGR 3 shown at i26 this weekend also has quite a few jaggies - seems AA was onlyt on when in car.. which is odd.

    love to know how the guy was capturing this as a hd signal can only be the HD rez, was he using a dev kit or just talking arse based on something he heard (from $ony maybe who are running the most amount of dirty tricks they can right now)

  • AgentCooper #72 6 years ago

    "Really, I hope my life never gets so consumed by a bloody computer games console that I feel the need to tear into anyone and anything that doesn't worship it like a deity.

    It's an entertainment device, not a lifestyle choice fellas."

    +infinity

    Goes back to what I said in the Resi4 preview talkback, some people, for some obscure reason feel the need to 'choose' a console/+manufacturer and devote themselves to it and their cause as if they where in some kind of twisted marriage. Very, very odd..........

  • Genji #73 6 years ago

    Are you THE Agent Cooper? Tell me about Tibet!

  • lennon #74 6 years ago

    Ohhhhhh

    I wanted a debate on HD? :)

  • w00t #75 6 years ago

    It's funny how some people (naming no names) don't give a fuck about HD for Xbox 360 until they find out it apparently doesn't 'work' properly in one game, then they looooove to talk about it. Whether it's their own bias or just reacting against fanboys, it's quite disappointing.

    Game upscales image from back buffer SHOCKA!!! Bet that's never happened before... ;)

    Personally, I haven't seen it on a normal TV or an HDTV. I wonder how it plays...?

  • sheepsteak #76 6 years ago

    Remember guys - the best goats to use are fainting goats. When they are down hit them over the head with the power supply. Then sacrifice as normal.
    Edited by 2 at 16/11/05 @ 13:38

  • AgentCooper #77 6 years ago

    Genji -It's a very mystical place my friend, populated by backwards talking dancing midgets. Now, stand over there while I throw rocks in your general direction ;-)

  • glaeken #78 6 years ago

    @Talha I think 2/10 would be generous. The thing is half the size of the 360!!! No wonder the case is so slim line when they have taken something the size of a house brick out of it. No doubt the PS3 power supply will be itsy bitsy and deliver a far superior quality of power ;)

  • DrDamn #79 6 years ago

    I feel like I'm chucking fuel on a fire but here goes ... for the Sony fanboys some reasoning behind why this is true, and for the MS fanboys some reasoning for why it doesn't matter (see link).

    http://www.bizarreonli ne.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8837&postdays=0&postorder=asc&s tart=225

    True because the Frame buffer only allows for 1024x600 with 4xFSAA. Doesn't matter because future games can use a tile rendering method which early games could not take advantage off.

  • lennon #80 6 years ago

    On the issue of the power supply. It could be the size of a brick for all I care as long as the 360 doesnt drown out the sound from my 5.1 system like my xbox does.

  • kangarootoo #81 6 years ago

    Oh thank Christ for that. Top work DrDamn for bringing some reason to this shitstorm of a thread.

  • glaeken #82 6 years ago

    A link to the Anandtech story for those interested.

    http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2610

    The power supply is that large thing in the bottom left hand corner of the first photo.

  • Tonka #83 6 years ago

    On th issue of the power supply(again). I'm really curious about the size of the Revolution one. It might end up being bigger than the actual consol.

  • Derblington #84 6 years ago

    "No wonder the case is so slim line..."

    Have you seen it? It's sleek but it's not slimline - it's still a monster of a machine.

  • jaspoid #85 6 years ago

    Sure the end result's what matters, but this affects it - thus, arguably, relevant. Plus, Microsoft's been pushing HD and 720p hard, so of course it's a blow if even their own devs can't truly make that. (You can't really consider stretched lower-res graphics true HD, can you?)

    Personally, I don't care though. I'll be getting a Revolution. The only HD quality I'll play, in the coming 3 years or so, will be on PC.

    Check out the size of that external power supply on Anandtec. You could beat small mammals to death with it.

    Brutal! It's the size of a slimline PS2! Possibly even a Revolution! Not that I care or anything.. ;)

  • OnlyMe #86 6 years ago

    Yeah, I was wondering about that. With the power supply being external one would've thought they could've made the console a wee bit smaller. The way it is now, it's actually bigger than the original one.

  • Genji #87 6 years ago

    It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it.

  • glaeken #88 6 years ago

    Well I thought the 360 was slim line in comparison to the original Xbox. Mind I have not see a real one yet in the wild so I am just basing this on photo's

  • jaspoid #89 6 years ago

    Xbox 360 vs. Xbox @ Kotaku

  • All_Action_Hero #90 6 years ago

    those huge EPS's will become standard now fella's, expect to see one on your sony machine, your laptops, your PC's, the works.

  • jaspoid #91 6 years ago

    Jaspoid, of course you can! It's the output res that matters, not what's in the frame buffer. If the output picture is not 720p you will see it on a 720p display, believe me! So you can't really say that because the game buffers pictures of a lower res, then it's not true HD. It'd be displayed all wrong if it wasn't truly 720p.

    Ah! Whatever. ;)
    I'll stay out of any tech discussions from now. Stupid me - I don't really care anyway.

  • brombeer #92 6 years ago

    Wel, I played PGR3 for over an hour on a demo stand in a local store and I must say: I'm totally underwhelmed by it. It could have been PGR2 with just slightly better graphics, but not THAT much which Microsoft always proclaimed. I just wait and see what the Rev and PS3 are going to be. Then I will decide which one to buy, but for now, the 360 just doesn't give me any feeling of "want one, want one!". And Genji, you're totally right, although I'm glad for being large sized :).

  • Derblington #93 6 years ago

    "those huge EPS's will become standard now fella's, expect to see one on your sony machine, your laptops, your PC's, the works."

    True, but it's already on the PStwo. Your post reads as though MS are leading the way and everyone else is going to follow.

  • Xerx3s #94 6 years ago

    1Up gave this a 10. Dunno how heavy their verdicts usually are, never read their reviews.

  • Carlo #95 6 years ago

    DrDamn's
    http://www.bizarreonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8 837&post
    days=0&postorder=asc&start=225 explaination could also explain why the demos (or even the final games) shown on the demo pods lack AA... It's the buffer.

  • MoFo #96 6 years ago

    To all you XBox fanboys who think EG is anti-Xbox, will you please do the rest of us a favour and piss off.

    The EG guys are people that play games for a living and for the fun of it. Do you honestly belive they'll have such a petty bias against a gaming console? Do you honestly belive they'll go out of their way to slate XBox 360 games based purely on the fact that they're not Sony. PLEASE!

    Fact is when it comes to the PS3 launch time then I guarantee there'll be just as much pro and con news articles bouncing about.

    Are you still here? Didn't I tell you to piss off?

    Edit: "are" is not spelt "ah". Corrected.
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 14:53

  • Teeth #97 6 years ago

    MoFo FTW!

  • darkmistx #98 6 years ago

    Xbox fanboys can't take what they dish out. Simple as that.

  • Teeth #99 6 years ago

    "those huge EPS's will become standard now fella's, expect to see one on your sony machine, your laptops, your PC's, the works."

    LOL

    The Xbox is the only current-gen console NOT to have an external power supply, you nutcase. Also you seem to have three extraneous apostrophes there, they must have dropped out of the same hole in your skull that the better part of your brain fell through.

  • Gurgeh #100 6 years ago

    Seen 2 reviews of PG3 so far

    IGN: 8.8 "The game is gorgeous, deep in modes and challenges, and well balanced, even if it's nothing more than a minor leap in gameplay over its predecessor"

    1UP: 10 "PGR3 excels at being both a brilliant showpiece of the power of Microsoft's new console as well as a thoroughly enjoyable racer"

  • jiveguy #101 6 years ago

    I'm just wondering if the comments system on eurogamer has reached the point where, if all xbox/x360 related news item comments were collected together, you could extract the complete works of Shakespear?

  • AgentCooper #102 6 years ago

    "Well I thought the 360 was slim line in comparison to the original Xbox. Mind I have not see a real one yet in the wild so I am just basing this on photo's"

    Having played it yesterday, I must say I thought it was sleeker and a bit slimmer as well, actually a bit smaller than I had envisioned.

    Could post my comments on the games I played but I think I could sum up the experience (CoD2 and Kameo) borrowing one of Blerks more famous statements. ;-)

    Needless to say however I'll wait on making my final opinion once I've played the finished article in my home.

  • rhinoxious #103 6 years ago

    Dilletante wrote - It's the output res that matters, not what's in the frame buffer. If the output picture is not 720p you will see it on a 720p display, believe me! So you can't really say that because the game buffers pictures of a lower res, then it's not true HD. It'd be displayed all wrong if it wasn't truly 720p.

    Based on my understanding of the current rumours:

    In fact, it is what's in the frame buffer that really matters. This is exactly like upscaling DVD.

    The game renders a frame at 1024x600, that's a single image (a complete progressive frame) that the 360 is then upscaling to 1280x720 before being displayed. It has not added any more detail just increased the number of pixels in the image.

    A DVD disc (PAL) is 720x576 (progressive 24fps), a frame from the film (compression issues aside for the moment) is a single image at that resolution. The upscaling DVD player increases the resolution to 1280x720. it's essentially the same process.

    An upsacling DVD player is not true HD, and neither is PGR3. Fact.

    The image must be rendered from the 3D geometry at the full resolution for it to count as HD.

    It will still look great though :)

    PGRp 1024x600= 614400 pixels vs 480p 720x480 = 345600

    Which is a serious rise in visual acuity. Plus you can bet that the ATI chip in the 360 is going to do a damn good job of the upscaling. I can't wait to get my 360 and play the game.

    My only worry is that this sets a precedent for MS abusing the definition of HD standards.

  • Derblington #104 6 years ago

    Fluffy - the slimline models do.

  • McGeeza #105 6 years ago

    Anyway, good to see the 360 launch titles getting some decent reviews on gamerankings.com. These are mostly (if not all) US sites though, so maybe a little bias in there...

  • All_Action_Hero #106 6 years ago

    shh, don't say bias round here!

    it's reaction - not bias!

  • AOFanboi #107 6 years ago

    I wish some of the commentators here would get into their thick and moist skulls that the reason there are so many articles - news, rumours, whatever - about the X360 is that it's about to launch. If you want to see negative press about the PS3, wait until that nears its launch date next year.

    No fricking conspiracy.

  • Furbs #108 6 years ago

    Incidently, and out of my own warped curiosity, by making these accusations about the sites staff/journalistic integrity, is someone such as our Action Figure friend here engaging in libellous/slanderous (forget which is which) activity?

  • Derblington #109 6 years ago

    It's libel when it's written, slander is spoken.

  • dose #110 6 years ago

    Someone mention the <a href="h ttp://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3084/sotc6ob.jpg" >
    PSU</a>?

    Edited by 3 at 16/11/05 @ 16:10

  • Balor #111 6 years ago

    It's libel but surely propagating rumours without substantial evidence isn't libelous otherwise what would this article be....?

  • Furbs #112 6 years ago

    I thought if you made it clear you werent reporting it as fact (ie hence the usual "allegedly" disclaimer) you could get away with it? So the first sentence should cover them...

  • Balor #113 6 years ago

    Yeah, I would have thought an 'allegedly' would have made it into the Eurogamer article, alas...

  • Furbs #114 6 years ago

    "Microsoft has refused to confirm rumours..."

    See? So its not like they are claiming it as fact. Unlike arnies claims of bias...

  • dbeamish #115 6 years ago

    @ lavalant
    it makes no difference to 99% of the population in the UK cos we don't have HDTV's to support these features.

    I would say this is changing mind especially in the last 2 months. LCD TVs have really changed all this. I would say something like 60-70% of all new TVs purchased now will support HD.

  • Balor #116 6 years ago

    Well this article is hardly employs a positive bias towards the 360, so on that basis alone Arnie's reaction certainly isn't unfounded.

  • Derblington #117 6 years ago

    How is it negative to the 360? To MS or BC I can understand but I don't understand where the article puts down the 360?

    And would it be better if it was bias for MS? I don't think so.
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 16:13

  • Dizzy #118 6 years ago

    >If you want to see negative press about the PS3, wait until that nears its launch date next year.


    Or go to another site.

    PS3 no online unified platform? Hmmm... EG seemed not to care while most other sites reported it.

    Etc.. etc...

    It is just getting sillt.

  • Balor #119 6 years ago

    Because, as the title states, the article questions Microsoft commitment to HD. Which could be considered as an attack on Microsoft credibility. Hardly positive reading at any rate.

    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 16:17

  • McGeeza #120 6 years ago

    "(Aww)

    Sounds like they've sent review-kits to the US first, maybe coz its released there first?

    Ah the logic."

    Really? Thanks for clearing that one up...

    :rollseyes:

    Just pointing out that they are US reviews at the moment, as gamerankings stats do include non-US reviews (e.g eurogamer's)...

  • Derblington #121 6 years ago

    "Because, as the title states, the article questions Microsoft commitment to HD. Which could be considered as an attack on Microsoft credibility. Hardly positive reading at any rate."

    That's my point. It's about MS not the 360.

    And McGeeze - you've just done the same thing you've taken the piss out of Disc for doing.
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 16:21

  • Jokerr #122 6 years ago

    I don't think there's any way you spin this as positive news. Basically MS misled us about one their USP's. Not that I care anyway, becuase I don't care much about graphics, but I'm sure some people will feel a bit cheated if they bought an expensive HD tv to play 360 games on, and one of the flagship titles won't even be outputting in true HD.

    Edited by 3 at 16/11/05 @ 16:29

  • McGeeza #123 6 years ago

    FFS.

    Take a look at my original post and try to find one fucking piece of bad intention in there.

    Fuck me, we are all angry today aren't we?

  • Derblington #124 6 years ago

    "Fuck me, we are all angry today aren't we?"

    No thanks, and no I'm not. You 'attacked' Disc for stating the obvious and then did the same, made even more pointless by the fact you highlighted it after you'd agreed only the US have the machines to review them.

    It's you that's angry and i didn't think it was needed.

  • lennon #125 6 years ago

    I bought a HD TV for the 360 and I feel in no way cheated. A) This is speculation
    B) From what I have seen the game in question still looks great. C) I know that games in the future will take full advantage.

  • Corben_Dallas #126 6 years ago

    GT4 runs at a rock solid 60fps and can output (in the US version) all the way up to 1080p AND 1080i and this with a last gen console!!!!

    so much for super powerful double the power crap
    Sony owns MS.

    PS3 will kick XB360 in the nads and then steal its lunchmoney.
    :D

  • ssuellid #127 6 years ago

    Corben, GT4 was rendered at 720P but upsampled to 1080P

  • oceanmotion #128 6 years ago

    ^^

    Wow, just wow. Keep telling yourself that when actual footage of PS3 gameplay comes out next year. You too will have an external brick so I guess you won't mind that.

  • lennon #129 6 years ago

    Do fanboys realise how stupid they make themselves sound or do they just not realise it like chavs?

  • alpha-0ne #130 6 years ago

    the is a function called tiling that can be used to 2xAA the image at full 720p this has not been implemented by the pgr3 engine due to it being in development for many years.

    there was a choice of 720p with no 2XAA jaggies

    or

    slightly lower res with 2XAA (so no jaggies)

    you cant tell the diffeence when seeing it on the hdtv as the image is upscaled by the 360's excellent scaler anyway...

    you can sure tell the difference when AA is off so the best decision was made
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 17:07

  • McGeeza #131 6 years ago

    @Derblington

    "You 'attacked' Disc'"

    Just defending myself mate. I wasn't attacking anyone in my original post. Just pleased that the 360 games have got some positive (if not superb) reviews and pointing out that those on there are US reviews only. I honestly can't think of anything wrong with that at all. Sure, everyone reading this thread may already know about gamerankings, but did I deserve to have the piss ripped out of me by Disc?

    "It's you that's angry and i didn't think it was needed."

    I'm far from angry. In fact, i'm filled with the joy of love. Post your address and i'll write you a personal letter of apology... in blood or will ink suffice?

  • kangarootoo #132 6 years ago

    Crap, 50 posts later and this thread has gone all spiky again. I thought after someone posted info on the whole upsampling/downsampling/roundaboutsampling business, order would return.

    I guess the platform hate is too strong for any of us to control.

    Check out this happy little primate. She doesn't give a shit how big the XB360 PSU is and probably couldn't even set the channels on her HDTV without a few pointers from a teenager in a Dixons uniform. But does she care? Does she f*ck.

    http://www.phoenixexotics.org/siteimages/MonkeyEmm aSmiling.jpg

    Life is short, even shorter if you are a monkey. Lets all just cool out and look forward to pushing our respective PSUs out of sight and mind behind the telly, before sitting down to the excellent game of our choice.

  • Teeth #133 6 years ago

    "See the happy moron;
    he doesn't give a damn.
    I wish I were a moron.
    My God... perhaps I am!"

  • thegamesthething #134 6 years ago

    nice monkey

  • inpHilltr8r #135 6 years ago

    The 10MB of embedded memory on the graphics chip is only large enough to hold a 600 line buffer, with anti-aliasing. The solution is to render half or a third of the screen at a time, and composite the final image in main memory. That's the 'tiling' system that's supposed to be core to the graphics chip design. Guess what bit of software hasn't been finished yet.

    Of course no-one's actually going to notice once the 600p image scaled up to 720p, is scaled back down to the ~500 lines of PAL/NTSC that 99% of gamers are stuck with.

    xbots am cry tho' ;_;

  • speedstars13 #136 6 years ago

    Welcome to the HD era my a$$. But XBox!11!!$t1LL r0XXX3R1!!!!L00L!!1!

  • darkmistx #137 6 years ago

    You know what's sad, is that all the xbox 360 reviews have mentioned that you need a high-definition tv to get the proper experience. Next-gen gaming is unfortunately going to cost an arm and a leg.

  • IronGiant #138 6 years ago

    "They just care about playing great looking and innovative games, and that is exactly what Xbox 360 and the launch lineup has provided."

    Hmmmm... innovation, ahem.
    Honestly people calm down, plenty of good XBox360 coverage on EG. Go moan about something really important.

  • Pho-Zoon #139 6 years ago

    /snores

    thats not any old snore either, its the snore of a man tired of posts about Xbox 360 which contain any of the following topics:

    -underwhelming demo pods
    -HD tv
    -anti-360 rhetoric/bias
    -'EG is teh suxxxorz'
    -All_Action_Hero (what a very silly person)

    Oh yes, and goats.

  • ekko #140 6 years ago

    This is news, this thread would not have had 160+ posts if it wasn't....

  • Darren #141 6 years ago

    I read about this last week but I find it hard to believe that PGR 3 is running at 1024x600 and rescaled to 1280x720 mostly because it would look very noticeable and no-one prior to that guy's post had even noticed it.

    Also the HDTV itself would rescale the 1280x720 image to its own resolution, say, 1366x768 making the game look even worse!

    Finally all the screenshots taken from the photo mode are 1280x720 not 1024x600 as you'd expect. Those screenshots look totally smooth with no visible artifacts. Now unless the 360's 2X MSAA is super impressive at masking those jaggy rescaled edges I'd say that was conclusive proof that the game is running at 1280x720! lol
    Edited by 1 at 16/11/05 @ 23:50

  • Jmog #142 6 years ago

    Also the HDTV itself would rescale the 1280x720 image to its own resolution, say, 1366x768 making the game look even worse!

    Actually, the 360 has 1366x768 among the resolutions it can scale to and then output.

    Finally all the screenshots taken from the photo mode are 1280x720 not 1024x600 as you'd expect.

    Well, the photo mode could just capture post-rendering.

    for the record, I don't really care whether it renders in real 720p internally. It looks gorgeous already and as soon as the developers have gotten used to the machine, they will have no difficulties getting 720p to run smoothly. I don't expect to see any other games not rendering in real 720p.

  • 3william56 #143 6 years ago

    "You could beat small mammals to death with it."

    Can I sugest we start with Balor, A_A_H and the rest of the tiresome conspiracy theory mongs in here. Gents, it's a little tough critisising the PS3, seeing as it's not been built yet. Or had software released. So not a lot of anti PS3 stuff. Or positive. Or any!

    BTW: Technically, for PAL TV signals "High Definition" starts at 480 progressive scan. Yeah, I know - it's a gyp. But for TV standards, that's the definition of definition.

  • Shinji #144 6 years ago

    Two things.

    1) We are reporting an OFFICIAL COMMENT from Microsoft about this issue. We saw the rumours, contacted Microsoft, and that's what they said. If you find it negative, take it up with Microsoft! Also, the balance of evidence does seem to suggest that it's true that PGR3 is upscaling its output - and indeed, Microsoft's own statement pretty much tacitly acknowledges that, but says it doesn't matter. Whether you believe that or not is up to you - we've reported the facts as we're aware of them, and readers can draw their own conclusions. (Personally, I've played PGR3 and it's by far the best of the launch games, so I'm not particularly bothered by this at all..)

    2) I love the FUD being spread around about PS3 here from people who don't know anything about the system. The PlayStation 3 model which was shown off at E3, TGS and last week at G* in Korea had a three-pin kettle style power connector on it, which means that it's going to have an internal PSU, not an external power brick. That remains the standard configuration for consumer electronics products - bricks are the exception, not the rule. Again, whether you consider that a good or a bad thing... *shrug* Personal opinion, right?

  • MrGrumpy.au #145 6 years ago

    Everyone (well not everyone a select few) PLEASE! just give it a rest, no matter which site I visit it's the same thing over and over again. You are about to get within 2weeks - 9mths three kickass consoles and all everyone can do is put X/Y/Z down all the time.

    Maybe I've made the correct decision in buying a high end dual core P4 system, so now if I want I can completely skip the next gen consoles altogether and hope(wishful thinking) everything will calm down later on.

    Peace

  • McGeeza #146 6 years ago

    "buying a high end dual core P4 system"

    OMG. You bought a P4 system? AMD dual cores are sooo much better for gaming.

  • MrGrumpy.au #147 6 years ago

    Yep certainly did, it's a great system (it's extremely responsive under a heavy load) and was $(AUD)235 cheaper than the equivalent AMD spec. Fits my needs perfectly, for my work in Software Engineering, video/audio encoding, for games e.g.SportsCar GT, Viper Racing, Live for Speed Demo, Grand Prix 4, Quake 3, UT all run full speed at 1024x768 32Bit Colour.

    And finally it's extremely stable, been up for 2 weeks now and not a single crash(touch wood).

    I didn't realise there were processor wars. /shrugs
    Edited by 1 at 17/11/05 @ 11:09

  • Valver #148 6 years ago

    Wush and Rhinoxious are both correct. The "other opinion" (inc. Microsofts) is wrong on this.

    I really want to love the 360. I already really want one. But this dissapoints me :(

  • McGeeza #149 6 years ago

    @MrGrumpy

    It was a joke mate. See what I did there?

  • thegamesthething #150 6 years ago

    all quiet on the eastern front then?
    Edited by 1 at 17/11/05 @ 17:30

  • willetts345 #151 6 years ago

    yaknow wots depressin im 17 and i feel more mature then some of you i like the people who hav like a favourite console and defend it to the max im a good old student so i can only afford bout one console every couple of years, wot i dont do is b*tch about the console i dont have or i dont want i pick the one i want im gettin a 360 and have pre ordered it OHH no its a conspiracy theres gunna be millions at launch i dont care as long as i have one errrm rant over sorry about that