MS talks HD-DVD add-on price

By Games Industry.biz Published 16 May, 2006

360 + drive cost less than PS3.

Speaking to our sister site, GamesIndustry.biz, retail sources have said that Microsoft has told them the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 will be priced so that buying a 360 and a HD drive together will cost you less than the price of a PS3.

At E3 last week, Microsoft once again discussed its plans to launch a HD-DVD component for the Xbox 360 later this year, but did not reveal any further information about the price of the unit.

Currently, the Xbox 360 retails at £279 in the UK, with the Core System (which comes minus a hard drive) going for £209. The 60GB model of the PlayStation 3 is expected to cost between £399 and £419 when it arrives in late November.

Microsoft's alleged comments to UK retailers seem to suggest that the HD-DVD peripheral, which allows playback of high definition movies using Toshiba's next-generation DVD standard, will be priced below £130 - making an Xbox 360 and HD-DVD player bundle a potentially attractive option come Christmas.

Sony's PlayStation 3 features a built-in Blu-Ray drive, which also offers playback of high definition movies, but in this case using Sony's competing next-generation DVD standard - which many industry commentators are tipping as the likely winner of this standards war, due to strong support from many movie studios and other content creators.

Some analysts, including respected videogames industry analyst Michael Pachter of Wedbush Morgan Securities, have suggested that the success or failure of Blu-Ray could directly lead to the success or failure of the PlayStation 3 - with the system being seen as good value despite its high price point if Blu-Ray is widely adopted, but Sony faced with being lumbered with an expensive and unappealing component for the console's five year lifespan if Blu-Ray is a failure.

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Comments (128) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • drumbaby #1 6 years ago

    This peripheral also adds 40gbb to the Xbox 360's HDD, right?

    /peow!!

  • #2 6 years ago

    Surprise surprise.

    I will be sure to get one when I have an extensive choice of HD DVDs to buy.

    /peow!! etc.

    I'm not sure how far that 40GB is going to get you though drummer - what are your big plans for it?

  • Blerk #3 6 years ago

    I smell a Sega-style white elephant here.

    Nothing to see. Move along now.

  • Darkedge #4 6 years ago

    i'll bet the premuim pack will dropo in price b4 the PS3 launch too. So 360 owners will have lots of games, HDDVD's and a great PROVEN online service for a good price.

    /peow :p

  • cyacomini #5 6 years ago

    I dont think the HD-DVD add-on will be *that* cheap really.

    If Microsoft plays its cards right - i reckon we could see maybe £50-£100 knocked off the price of the 360 itself just before PS3 hits (ouch !)

    HD-DVD ? £149 i'd guess at in the UK at least - maybe more..

    Hmmmm

    Premium 360 - £179.99
    HD-DVD - £149.99

    I make that £329.98 - cheap ?

  • Blerk #6 6 years ago

    Having seen the PS3's price, I can confidently predict that you can kiss your "360 price drop" goodbye.

  • Kafeen #7 6 years ago

    Less than which version of the PS3?

    And which version of the 360?
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 16:42

  • Noose #8 6 years ago

    Really great!

  • Luigi #9 6 years ago

    wow... rushed things and now add-ons to compensate the errors. Microsoft Dreamcast or something :) The main thing is that Microsoft has one HUGE advantage. It has DVD games and will be easier and cheap to find and duplicate games. The Bluray stuff is too early and too expensible for that at the moment. It's not a very polite advantage but it counts on selling consoles. Let's wait and see....

  • cyacomini #10 6 years ago

    "Having seen the PS3's price, I can confidently predict that you can kiss your "360 price drop" goodbye."

    Ah - but if you remember during last years launch frenzy - MS did come out and said they had factored in a $100 drop in price year-on-year..

    November would be bang on a year, hit the PS3 and get those mums and dads queuing up at Toys r Us in the run up to crimble.

    I'd still bet my mortgage on a price drop ;)

  • Gouki #11 6 years ago

    sticking with the 360, really i've enjoyed it so much. Ridge racer and condemned have been great. Now I have the option of buying a HD-DVD drive yaaaaaay.

    bite me Sony

  • Blerk #12 6 years ago

    But why would they drop the price? They're losing money on every machine sold and they're still undercutting the PS3 by a large amount. Dropping the price makes no sense.

  • Xerx3s #13 6 years ago

    "Having seen the PS3's price, I can confidently predict that you can kiss your "360 price drop" goodbye."

    +1. If MS is under sony's price and continues to sell, i doubt that they will drop the price.

    "That's all very nice but where's the HDMI? I'm still waiting as component or VGA isn't an option for me."

    Well, not in the turd PS3 edition. ;p

  • drumbaby #14 6 years ago

    I'm not sure how far that 40GB is going to get you though drummer - what are your big plans for it?

    Well Jameser, although clearly it will get me much further than a 20gbb HDD, my use for it is really a matter for me and my media collection. I'm sure many other people will put a 60gbb hdd to better use than me....and/ or upgrade to a bigger one on the off chance they're overzealous in their media hoarding.

  • cyacomini #15 6 years ago

    mortgage still up for grabs ;)

  • McGeeza #16 6 years ago

    That would be a good point if you couldn't stream music and pics to the 360 from a PC...

    Edit: Before I get flamed, i'd like to apologise if i've insulted any Mac users... ;)
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 16:54

  • Kafeen #17 6 years ago

    "That's all very nice but where's the HDMI? I'm still waiting as component or VGA isn't an option for me."

    Well, not in the turd PS3 edition. ;p
    Or any XBox 360 or Nintendo Wii.

  • NoCodeNed2 #18 6 years ago

    Now, I'm no mathematician but doesn't this make the 360 premium about as expensive as the premium PS3? Give or take a tenner.

    Plus the hard drive isn't used for games and is 40Gb smaller and no wi-fi?

    I think this is a strange move for Microsoft, cause it actually makes the PS3 look better value for money. I'd have kept quiet. but then I don't run a big console company - what do I know, eh?

  • Psi #19 6 years ago

    Blerk they will drop the price without a doubt, at least for some positive publicity prior to the xmas rush.

    The cost of making the games will be pennies for ms blueray will not gain the same type of revenue.

  • JediMasterMalik #20 6 years ago

    I agree NoCodeNed2. PS3 is better value for money. I mean think of how much other electronic items cost. The nVidia 7800gtx gfx card is about $600 as is the PS3. The PS3 is faster than the nVidia 7800gtx. Makes ya think dont it. ;)
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 16:56

  • Darren #21 6 years ago

    As a buyer of DVDs I'm sitting on the fence for the time until there's a clear winner in the HD-DVD versus Blu-ray wars. As far as HD-DVD goes, I don't want to buy an expensive add-on for the 360 and then the movies only to find that it's dead after a few years and that I'll have to buy all my hi-def movies again on Blu-ray. To me it's the whole VHS versus Betamax thing all over again. One the new HD formats must surely fail...

    Now I will be buying a PS3 so that means I'll have a Blu-ray movie player so it wouldn't make sense for me to also buy an HD-DVD player as well anyway, and although I'll no doubt end up buying a Blu-ray movie or two to try out, I'm determined not to buy them over DVD, which at least (for now) plays on both formats. It doesn't seem that long ago I replaced all my VHS movies with DVDs...

  • Blerk #22 6 years ago

    Maybe they'll bundle a couple of crap games. No price drop. I should know - I'm from the future!

  • cyacomini #23 6 years ago

    Think - no

    Giggle - yes

  • McGeeza #24 6 years ago

    @Blerk - Really?

  • king_skins #25 6 years ago

    price drop will depend on the pricing of the Wii

  • YogiTah #26 6 years ago

    Yeah - Microsoft is going to rule the world - again. Wha is up next on Bills' List??

  • #27 6 years ago

    Luigi,
    It has DVD games and will be easier and cheap to find and duplicate games. The Bluray stuff is too early and too expensible for that at the moment. It's not a very polite advantage but it counts on selling consoles. Let's wait and see....
    Although ever present on these kinds of forums, I assure you that the pirated/chipped market is actually very small in the grand scheme of things.

    Drummer, the point I was making is that I don't use nearly all of the 20 (13 really -gasp!) Gigs on the 360. I just can't be ased to rip all my music to the unit - it's on my iPod and I can stream it into my games from there (yes, even the 360 can use an iPod - but not the data-protected stuff from the iTMS though of course). I don't see myself having a lot of stuff on there that's all.

    But them I suppose Sony did say summit about AAA titles being distributed on their as yet completley phantom on-line service.

  • chavatar #28 6 years ago

    @ Blerk - Eloi or Morlock? ;)

  • JediMasterMalik #29 6 years ago

    ok I'll simplify it:

    PS3 > 7800GtX

    PS3price = 7800GTX

    Seeing a pattern. Genius, really. PS3 ain't expensive, it IS cheap (relative to new hardware). You cannot dispute this, it's a fact. ;)

  • McGeeza #30 6 years ago

    Can someone dispute one of Malik's posts... he really wants an argument...

  • Wrestlevania #31 6 years ago

    @cyacomini

    "I make that £329.98 - cheap ?"

    Very, considering you just magically knocked £100 off the premium Xbox 360 bundle! In all seriousness though, MS are bound to cut the price a decent amount during the long summer gaming drought this year (just like every other year).

    So yeah you're on the right lines, but perhaps a little too optimistic. ;-)

    Wonder what codecs it'll support though..?

  • JediMasterMalik #32 6 years ago

    I've only posted twice. I just thought everyone ignored my first post so I made an easier to read one. ;)

    (I just want someone to notice me :() lol

  • lennon #33 6 years ago

    I wouldnt bet on a price drop at the PS3 launch but I would be willing to bet there will be one when the PS3's start to become more freely available next year.

    My biggest problem with the HD-DVD add on is that the 360 is already too noisy to reasonably watch movies (especially when you cant turn the sound right up) will adding a extra drive be any better?

  • JediMasterMalik #34 6 years ago

    LeDilettante - Are you a pc gamer?

    The 7800GTX is nVidias most powerful graphics card.

  • McGeeza #35 6 years ago

    Wow. Thanks for making it easier... you should be an English teacher...

  • #36 6 years ago

    Darren, I understand your ideas but I think the argument is flawed.

    A lot of the extra cost of the PS3 has been attributed to the fact that you "get a bluray player built in!" - yeah wow!

    So basically, MS have given you the option of a "wait and see" approach (as in, HD-DVD doesn't become the next format - well you didn't buy the player, well done), wheras Sony ARE forcing you into a future media investment (as in, you WILL get a Blu-ray player, and you will be grateful for it too, you lucky swine!)

    I too own Tons of DVDs (about 350+ I'd say at a guess), I own a ton more DVDs than I did VHS. I am not planning on owning a HD DVD or Blu-Ray movie until something drastic happens and there is finally a clear winner.

    I can't quite tell from your post if you've sided with anyone, but from a personal standpoint I am starting to resent Sony a little for forcing me to make a format commitment if I wish to play their next games console (UMD - ouch, MiniDisc - ouch - I've been burned before!)

  • #37 6 years ago

    Oh and that Wifi thing - I take it it's to network wirelessly.
    Fine, go do that, if you want 20-30ms+ latency. Have fun with that!

  • JediMasterMalik #38 6 years ago

    Most analysts are predicting BD to win due to high support from many Movie companies and the like.

  • Penitent #39 6 years ago

    "the success or failure of Blu-Ray could directly lead to the success or failure of the PlayStation 3 - with the system being seen as good value despite its high price point if Blu-Ray is widely adopted, but Sony faced with being lumbered with an expensive and unappealing component for the console's five year lifespan if Blu-Ray is a failure."

    Tell us something we don't know, Doc.

  • JediMasterMalik #40 6 years ago

    erm disc, are you a card tester or do you disbeleive what nVidia themselves say?

  • oceanmotion #41 6 years ago

    Choice is great. I don't need HD-DVD etc.. & Wifi so why pay for it ? Thanks MS. Screw Sony for forcing Blu-ray. Not interested.

  • JediMasterMalik #42 6 years ago

    It'd take you a while to "screw" such a large company. ;)

  • Darkedge #43 6 years ago

    jedimastermalik you can't compare a 7800 or any graphics card alone to the price of a PS3.

    stop being a moron.

  • #44 6 years ago

    LeDilettante
    +1

    Though the wifi thing is crappy.
    Choice, for me, is key.

  • JediMasterMalik #45 6 years ago

    Darkedge - You are correct, the PS3 is so much more than a graphics card.

    If that's not what u mean, explain further.

  • chavatar #46 6 years ago

    erm disc, are you a card tester or do you disbeleive what nVidia themselves say?

    Disc is right. This may tickle yer fancy [theinquirer.net]

  • johnboy_johsnon #47 6 years ago

    @JediMasterMalik : PS3>7800GTX now. Will it be better than the top end gfx card come this november? Also, the reason why the PS3 (and any other console for that matter) is so much cheaper than the sum of it's components is that Sony et al. make their money back on the games. If you take into account that PS3 games will cost on average £15 more than their PC equivalent, investing in a top end gfx card doesn't seem that bad (I buy on average 30 games/ year, that's a saving of £450/yr).

  • Kengro #48 6 years ago

    If you look on things you will find that the 360 has a small advantage in is't graphics card, the card in the 360 is a little more powerful than the card in the ps3.
    And with the SACD/DVD-AUDIO war i memory i'll get none of them, fook it dvd's will do just fine

  • JediMasterMalik #49 6 years ago

    I already have a 7900gt. And yes come november there MAY be a more powerful card, people however still complain about the price of the console. All I'm trying to say is that even if you only want it for games, it's still cheap for the hardware.

    And yes, the ps3 may have less bandwidth but the card IS FASTER than the 7900GTX. Even with less Bandwidth the games can still look great.

    Kengro - I think you switched PS3 and 360 there. ;)
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 17:45

  • Freki #50 6 years ago

    Malik, unfortunately I cannot now trust anything you say as you said:

    "The 7800GTX is nVidias most powerful graphics card"

    Which is odd as the 7900GT and GTX have been out for a couple of months now.

    Of course you have more problems if you consider that the PS3 isn't out until November, at which point the DX10 graphics cards will be released the the 7900s will drop in price quite a bit.

    But the real problem is that you are comparing the PS3 with a PC graphics card while Joe Public will compare it to it's competition. The question you have to ask is "Is the PS3 £150 (possibly £200 by release date) better than the Xbox360?" as far as playing games go, it really doesn't look like it to me.

  • Totoriko #51 6 years ago

    /tosses coin
    ...
    HD-DVD I choose you!

  • AtomicBanana #52 6 years ago

    'ok I'll simplify it:

    PS3 > 7800GtX

    PS3price = 7800GTX

    Seeing a pattern. Genius, really. PS3 ain't expensive, it IS cheap (relative to new hardware). You cannot dispute this, it's a fact. ;)'

    Ok, allow me to apply this retard logic

    Card in 360 > card in PS3

    360 > ps3

    yes, if only it was that simple... (pro-tip - it's not this simple)

    The xbox 360 has amazingly powerful GFX card in it too, and costs less than the top of the range gfx cards. It IS cheap cheap (relative to new hardware). You cannot dispute this, it's a fact. ;)

    'Kengro - I think you switched PS3 and 360 there. ;)'

    I think you'll find he didn't :]
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 18:08

  • SwedBear #53 6 years ago

    Actually JediMasterMalik , the GPU in the 360 is a bit more powerfull and flexible than the GPu in the PS3. It got 48 unified rendering pipelines which can be used both as shader and pixel pipelines (on the PC we still have separate pixel and vertex shader pipelines). It also got 10 MB embedded ram.

    IMHO MS did the only they could do. Launch with a normal DVD-drive (and there's nothing pointing to that DVD-9 is to small for games) and then add the HD-DVD when it finally was released.

    I'm happy with the decision since it gives me the freedom to choose if I want to add HD-DVD or not. I'm probably gonna hold off until I see which format wins or if a bunch of movies are released that I really want to see on my HDTV.

    /B

  • JediMasterMalik #54 6 years ago

    Freki i apologise, I didn't realise that the 7900GTX was out. Either way I don't give a damn if you trust anything I say. I think the ps3 is worth the price. The xbox360 still has few compelling games. The PS3 already has more compelling games than the xbox360 does. Which is truly shocking. Also who's going to buy the incredibly expensive dx10 cards when they can get a close spec ps3?

  • SwedBear #55 6 years ago

    _neon: MS has never said the 360 "being" HD-DVD (whatever that means). They've talked about HD as in High-Definition and they deliver that in the games (which IMHO is the important part).

    As for the Xbox and DVD. When Xbox was released the market was full with cheap standalone DVD-players. While I agree it was greedy of MS not to alows DVD-playback right away I relaly don't see that as a thing that stopped people from buying it. Neither the PS2 or the Xbox has stellar DVD-playback anyway.

    The reason they didn't build-in HD-DVD was mostly because it wasn't done. Either they would have had to include a non-finished technology or delay the release.

    MS solution however gives the users a choice of paying for the new technology now or wait until it becomes much clearer if HD-DVD or Blue-Ray will win. I don't think you can compare with DVD where there were just one format and it was pretty obvious that DVD would 'win' by default.

  • AtomicBanana #56 6 years ago

    'The PS3 already has more compelling games than the xbox360 does. Which is truly shocking. Also who's going to buy the incredibly expensive dx10 cards when they can get a close spec ps3?'

    In your opinion - I think the total opposite, loads of compelling games coming for the 360, and a complete and utter launch drought (like the ps2) launch coming up. But hey, that's my opinion - you're stating it as fact, I'm not.

    And vs. expensive PC's, both the 360 and the ps3 are equally as valid.

  • BadBoyBonner #57 6 years ago

    I just can not see either format taking off in the way that DVD did. Lay people will just not “get” the difference. What was immediately obvious going from a tape cassette mechanism that degraded over time with sequential access, to a digital random access no degrading little disc (which they hard already been schooled in the benefits, to the form and mechanics with cd’s rise over tape, hence almost waiting for it to happen). Not so with DVD in high resolution, I think the belief of uptake being in DVD style figures is so far off the mark as to be frightening.

    And do ya know I love technology, I love getting hi-def things from America, loved the first time running the terminator 2 that Microsoft released and the new progressive trailers from apple on my 1080p dlp projector, and even I’m not going to be taking the plunge (probably;-). It’s a super tough sell to the public. Blimey nearly everyone I know thinks I’m anal for being able to spot the difference or recording quality on DVD from the highest to the lowest setting which is like a bad VCD for Christ’s sake.

    Microsoft so screwed up, why they didn’t put the HD-DVD drive in the first place is beyond me. “Didn’t want to nail their flag to the mast” ?? What, are they expecting if HD-DVD bombs that we will have two extra drives for the 360; which already sounds like an air-conditioning unit from the noise!

    What a cock up, even if they did it to nail the price, there is a dangerous middle ground, where half price while trying to compete directly brings the old adage “if its too good to be true it probably is” lay xmas shoppers working out it must be twice as good just like Johnny said. If they (Microsoft) are to use pricing as a weapon, they need to go low, very low, as quickly as possible near PS3 time for saturation to take place (which is no doubt why they have the core system for the press headline grabbing advertisements Xmas time).

    As for HiDef DVD in all likelihood someone will bring out a fantastic upscaler changing those old 480P DVD’s to works of art in 1080P where you’ll be hard pressed to tell the difference on anything but a still image. Then the new formats really will be up against it and ya can bet ya bottom dollar someone has almost made one (here’s the important bit) at a consumer friendly price point.

    Even better, wouldn’t it be funny if it (the cheap DVD upscaler every home should have!lol) was released by Toshiba after sulking about loosing out in the niche market of hidef dvd and did the upscaling by using it’s co developed Cell chip! LOL

  • SwedBear #58 6 years ago

    _neon: I read a nice article about this but lost the link. They comapred the size of games on the Xbox over it's life-time as well as some of the early Xbox 360 games. Even when you compared a game that was out both on the Xbox and 360 (with its HD-resolution support) the size wasn't any different. In fact, the quality of gfx weren't a indication on the size it needed.

    There's lots of nice software tricks to keep space requirements down without sacrifying quality.

    Sony wants you to belive that Blue-Ray is a must and yet greatlooking xbox 360 games still don't occuoy more than 30-50% of a DVD-9.

  • JediMasterMalik #59 6 years ago

    LaDilettante - I said compelling, meaning what I think looks like it'll be good.

    Oh and here's a comparison. It practically says that numbers are useless thanks to the 360's grfx architecture.

    http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6125087/index.html?t ype=tech

  • SwedBear #60 6 years ago

    Jedi MasterMalik: Always fun readin stuff from May 2005.

    "Sony’s PlayStation 3 provides numerous A/V output hookups. The upcoming console comes with not one but two HDMI outputs, and PlayStation 3 will be able to utilize both at the same time to output two 1080p video streams at the same time allowing for dual-screen HDTV gaming. "

    :).

  • Razz #61 6 years ago

    LOL! The Wii's going to be about the same price :)

  • JediMasterMalik #62 6 years ago

    Yes but the RSX and the 360 chip haven't changed. It was for a grfx card comparison thank you very much. ;)

  • Xerx3s #63 6 years ago

    jediMasterMalik - Your posts are so funny to read. Really.

    "Kengro - I think you switched PS3 and 360 there. ;)" - No he didnt, i suggest that you take a look at the facts.

  • tonynibbles #64 6 years ago

    Another triumph for the 360.

    Remind me what the others were again?

  • JediMasterMalik #65 6 years ago

    Xerx3s - You do realise that particular comment was a joke.

    If you read that (admittedly out of date) article you'll see that, though the pipelines, may be lower in number, they may be more powerful. The comparison in numbers is illogical due to the architecture difference. The common consensus in the dev community seems to be that (if even slightly) the PS3 is more powerful than the 360.

  • tonynibbles #66 6 years ago

    There's still been no confirmation about that dual output from PlayStation 3.
    I mean, it does still have 2 outputs right? So in theory you could have the HDMI output and the multi-AV out both spitting out a 1080p signal (though the signal quality from the multi-AV could arguably be weaker - though we don't know what cable adapters Sony will be releasing).
    But then - that whole thing was always quite pointless as its a fucking console and there's no need.

    Anyway. Blu-ray Disc has higher capacity with future 8-layer versions stretching to a theoretical 200Gb.
    Plu Apple are supporting Blu-ray, so I choose Blu-ray.

    I think it's easy to underestimate the role of PlayStation 3 in this stupid 'format war'. If Joe public goes out and buys a PlayStation 3 (simply because its got 'PlayStation' in the title) then reads all the marketing bullshit about how great Blu-ray is, he'll buy a Blu-ray movie if only to test it out.
    The same isn't applicable to a Joe Public 360 owner, who won't necessarily realise that there is an add-on for HD-DVD and has to go out and buy a seperate unit to play the format - So there isn't that 'curiosity' factor.

    it's gonna be fuckign ages before there is a clear format winner though.

  • JediMasterMalik #67 6 years ago

    lol sorry thought u meant double HDMI. *runs*
    Edited by 2 at 16/05/06 @ 19:27

  • Noose #68 6 years ago

    Xenos is powerful than rsx,xbox 360=better gpu and ps3=better cpu.

  • tonynibbles #69 6 years ago

    NO it is single output.

    No, its not. It's two on the 60Gb model. HDMI and Multi-AV out.

    Thats 1, and then 2.

    Use your fingers if it helps.
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 19:25

  • Calgon #70 6 years ago

    Kengro yeah thats about right IMO

    PS3 = Slightly better CPU for streaming and decoding ect. but in some circumstances the triple core 360CPU could outperform it.

    A PC GPU(which will be olded by the time PS3 hits btw) that will be tailored to a console, some nice raw specs though in the shading department but its never that simple when translating that to actual game performance.

    Overall the PS3 looks slightly better on paper in some areas regarding theoretical specs but not by much and we know how misleading they can be as far as real world performance goes.

    360 = Custom designed console GPU which also has nice raw specs but more importantly theres other key strengths which many beleive it has over the RSX(aside from Nvidia employees and Nvidia fanboys most likely)> it's advanced for its time, offers unique features not likely to be found elsewhere for some time and some very much improved efficiency in many areas.

    A powerfull CPU which should easily keep up with the Cell in most areas and perhaps excell in others.

    Lets not forget the software which ms provided to devs(Id say they are deffinately the strongest in that regard for obvious reasons) which they've apparently excelled on(compiler, dev tools/environment ect), which is another big part of the equation.

    Overall 360 is easily comparable to the PS3 on paper but also most likely more advanced(aside from blue-ray, blue tooth and similar features Sony chose to focus on) in alot of ways and far more efficient.

    Having said that most devs are now saying theres not going to be any difference on screen most likely(most recent ones to join on that stance are Starbreeze) I think I'll wait and see but it would be interesting if 360 games end up looking noticably better(being the first next gen console to market and all... I think that would be a first). Who wins in the end? whos knows wait and see... I think nows the time just to sit back and enjoy great games and I see more of that on 360 personally.

    G4TV asked Carmack on his views on the subject around this years E3:

    Carmack on PS3 vs 360
    Edited by 7 at 16/05/06 @ 20:18

  • JediMasterMalik #71 6 years ago

    OH what the hell lets all just wait and see. The games are more important anyways. And i still think that PS3 is more Powerful. A gamespot editor said so...

    You can watch it in the final live video from this E3 at about 27 minutes. (on gamespot.com) Also many devs have also said that the ps3 is more powerful. AFAIK none have said the 360 is.

  • redd #72 6 years ago

    so where is all the pr0n going? cuz pr0n decides the winner of any movie media format war...

  • Calgon #73 6 years ago

    JediMasterMalik the PS3 isnt what Sony are hyped it up to be, its not more powerfull than the 360(other than marginally on paper which is worthless when all is said and done). Also I saw that editor but he just gave an opinion... you can hardly argue that it holds much weight anywhere and Ive yet to see any developers other than Sony's say that, so youre not being truthfull there(infact even some Sony devs said the 360 could do more if we are going to play that game).

    By no means am I saying the PS3 will be bad as far as hardware goes but even the playable games which they had which only looked ok were devkits and not retail spec hardware(they'd hidden them to make it look like it was the ones on display playing them.. tut tut).
    Edited by 3 at 16/05/06 @ 19:38

  • Darren #74 6 years ago

    @JamesPhilp - "I can't quite tell from your post if you've sided with anyone..."

    I'm not siding with anyone because it was always my intention to wait out the hi-def movie disc format wars and then buy a decent dedicated player when I'm good and ready, and when there's an outright winner. For now, I have a 1080i capable upscaling DVD player which I'm more than content with.

    Experience has taught me that if I want decent movie playback then I don't use a jack-of-all-trades games console. Maybe the PS3 will be different but after the green screen RGB SCART fiasco of the PS2 and the appalling DVD playback quality of the Xbox 360 (complete with frame-skipping), I think I'd definitely rather buy a good quality, feature-packed dedicated player when the technology has proven itself. I've a feeling that early HD-DVD and Blu-ray players will have tons of issues initially so I think it's commonsense to wait... if I can resist that is...

  • Calgon #75 6 years ago

    Wonga theres also efficiency and bottleneck restraints which Sony devs could run into(and most likely will) giving 360 the edge. I wouldn't try and argue too much, most PS3 fanboys still harping on about sony's marketing propaganda know little about the subject in truth.
    Edited by 3 at 16/05/06 @ 20:17

  • Jowiddaflo #76 6 years ago

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  • redd #77 6 years ago

    @ _neon:

    http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8417/Xbox-360-Phys ical-Dimensions/

    http://w ww.us.playstation.com/E3/Systems/PS3

    the ps3 is larger and quite heavier than the 360 so... let google clean sonys dirt out of your eyes before you post. Not that this stuff matters in non portable consoles, but hey misinformation aint pretty.

    expect a brick-like power unit on the ps3 too...

  • tengu #78 6 years ago

    So how heavy would that make 360 + power brick + HD DVD add on I wonder?

  • JediMasterMalik #79 6 years ago

    me 2 :)

  • redd #80 6 years ago

    Yes I recall sony stating that the power supply was internal and the console would make about as much noise as a ps2... around the same time they said it would have 2 hdmi outputs, about a gazzillion usb ports and, go figure, no unified online (maybe to prevent us from playing imaginary killzone 2 online).


    At the pace things change, who knows what'll be in the box come november...

  • captain-future #81 6 years ago

    HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray

    Winner: DVD!

  • chavatar #82 6 years ago

    Good point, captain-contemporary.

  • SwedBear #83 6 years ago

    _neon:

    "You have got to hand it to Sony. They have made a stunning looking machine, that is powerful with a built in Blu-Ray player. "

    And Microsoft has made a stunning looking console which is powerfull and cheaper than the PS3 while still will offer the ability to add HD-movie playback on it. Looks like we got two good consoles, doesn't it?

    "not hot loooking"

    .... so the PS3 looks better ....? I guess everyone has different taste. I actually "modded" my 360 with some vinyl skins (yeah I know, kind of sad but I had to try it out) and it looks real nice. I got the 360 circles on bothf ront and top like I think i saw some of the early dev 360's had.

    "less powerfull"

    well the judge is out on that. As have been discussed in this thread, both have their strenghts and weaknesses. And in the area everyone agrees are the most important, games, so far we've not seen any of the two consoles blow the other away. When the devs say that they don't think you will see a difference between games on the two ... that says a lot.

    "And to play HD-DVD and external bolt on player has to be purchased, making the X360 even bigger than it already is."

    Ahh, the size-argument. The PS3 is a bit larger so while adding a separate HD-DVD will probably make the 360 a bit bigger I really don't see a problem. Sorry but only idiots base a 400-600$ purchase on size.

    You fail to mention that with a separate HD-DVD I get a choice to upgrade to HD-moviews when I want and feel that the time is ready. I understand Sony's decision and think it's cool too but I prefer to have the choice. Each to his own I guess.

    As for one cable out of the machine. So far everythings points to you hooking up the HD-DVD to the 360 and still use the same Video-out cables as before so you're not adding any cables.

    And re: the power brick. If you feel that bashing a console based on its powerbrick is a valid argument, feel free to do so. Personally I think it's funny that people use that argument. But hey, that's me.

    But who the hells really cares. It's two great consoles. I might think the price is to high but as soon as it hits the right pricespot for me I'll probably get one.
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 21:46

  • Steroyd #84 6 years ago

    Well done MS you've just made the Xbox 360 equal in value as the PS3's low spec console.

    Now just needs to make online free, with a new SKU that has built in Wi-Fi and we're ready to go.
    Edited by 1 at 16/05/06 @ 22:15

  • admir #85 6 years ago

    we need a price drop on the graphic cards for the pc they cost 600 dollars but people still buy it

  • tengu #86 6 years ago

    "So we're onto the power brick now... Did that bother you when you inevitably rushed out to get your l33t PStwo?"

    lmao. Did you see the size of the PSTwo power brick? It was tiny compared to the mammoth with the 360. Nice deflection attempt though.

  • DaveT #87 6 years ago

    "we need a price drop on the graphic cards for the pc they cost 600 dollars but people still buy it"

    At very low numbers at that price though. Most people buy cheaper cards that aren't so cutting edge, as you don't need a cutting edge card to play new games.

    Rather shockingly, I actually find myself agreeing for an entire topic with Mr Dilettante and his hoard of X360 zealots.

    I don't want a high def player. I don't want one foisted upon me by stealth tactics. I don't want to pay extra to get a console with features that I will not use. I doubt that many games will need more space than a standard DVD because it would cost so much to produce a game with that much data.

    Right now, the new Xbox is looking the more attractive of the two. For sure, I will not buy a console for an more than £300 (In the same way I wouldn't buy a gfx card for more than £150). However, it does need some more demonstrably good games available before I'll consider buying one.

  • DaveT #88 6 years ago

    I can't believe anyone gives a damn about the power supply, to be honest. Either way it's easy enough to hide away.

    I suppose if anything, an external one is preferable, easier to replace in case of damage. Also less chance of electrical noise interfering with the console itself.

    But seriously, if anyone bases the buying choice on the power supply of all things, I despair.

  • Freki #89 6 years ago

    "I can picture a Playstation 3 with 1 lead coming out (TO THE PLUG SOCKET) and that's it. "

    So...how does it get the signal to your TV? Or is the PS3 that good that you don't actually need to see the games to play them?

  • bauhaus #90 6 years ago

    if an external PSU dies you replace it; if an internal one dies you are potentially up shit street


    without a psu

  • JediMasterMalik #91 6 years ago

    Stop Bashing the PS3 for no reason. It'll still sell well, when it does more devs will dev for it and it'll become popular like the PS2 was. If anything this time around it'll be even better (though maybe not better off) for us as the increase in competition will force Sony to work harder for excellent games.

  • DaveT #92 6 years ago

    By the same logic, stop supporting the ps3 for no reason. You have, I presume, never used one (Or played on one either, for that matter)

    No matter how good it is, I'm not willing to pay more than £300 for it, end of. It's a simple fact that that's too much money for me to spend on something that by its nature has a limited lifespan

  • IronGiant #93 6 years ago

    Hmmm.. nearly everyone hated the idea of 'add-ons' in the past but because it's MS it's now acceptable and a good idea. Bizarre.

  • bauhaus #94 6 years ago

    I expect all three new consoles will sell well, and the PC, and the following generation.

    I bought all 3 last gen, the issue next time round has more to do with the fact that I feel pretty much that Game wise I`ll be satisified with just the one variation. Many games are on all formats and this trend, bar a few cloesly guarded games, will continue to grow.

    There will be little to choose from each I think, and perhaps the time to try and own all, or even argue the merits of one over the other are coming to an end. Regardless of hardware the actual software will differ less and so owning a single format will come down to which particular software IP you cherish.

    From a fiscal point of view i can own 3 consoles and a couple of titles for each, with a drip feed of 2nd handers afterwards etc etc

    Bugger it, i may as well own one and stuff myself with titles for that, after all i can only play one of them at a time

  • BadBoyBonner #95 6 years ago

    Yo Wonga

    I just do not see it (hd-dvd) taking off. MS were never going to support Blu-Ray period, so would have been nice to support at least one and so the hd-dvd standard being the obvious choice; but I do not really see it as a problem, most people stating storage as a problem at only 4.4 gigs on DVD, obviously burning disc laser has gone to their head, not realising that approx 9 gig is available. No doubt in 5 years that will be barely enough for a games first level texture set with CryTek showing DX12 Windows Oasis operating system texturing at atomic level detail or something for that beyond ray-traced look! Lol And anyone who cares enough to desire such visual fidelity from hidef dvd will want a near silent player….

    Nobody seemed to pick up on the irony that already the perfect upsclaer is in every Xbox360 owners hands and does not need a cell chip! If it upscales the 1024x600 (approx) (frame buffer) Project Gotham Racing 3 so well to 720P then am sure it would have a good stab at dvd’s espesh the 3-2 pull-down, its easily powerful enough, instead of the chunk 576P or even worse 480P – no doubt due to some agreement explicitly to stop the benefit I mentioned.

    Funny thing is, I miss Divx/xvid more than anything (arguably inferior in everyway for visual fidelity) and is only reason for me trusty xbox to still reside in my media room, obviously I guess in the future there will be no drive at all, and all the files (games and music) will be held on the server streaming only when needed. I think hd-dvd will be the minidisk of this generation of hardware. Reverently worshipped by its few followers and ignored by the masses. With ever faster broadband coupled with streaming, squashing it (hidef dvd) before it ever broke into it’s stride; imagine being able to take your entire film, game and music collection with you anywhere in the world, ya can almost hear the slogans now……

  • Sid-Nice #96 6 years ago

    The Dreamcast and a DVD player cost less than a PS2. :)

  • MaxiSleep #97 6 years ago

    JediMasterMalik said

    " Freki i apologise, I didn't realise that the 7900GTX was out. Either way I don't give a damn if you trust anything I say. I think the ps3 is worth the price. The xbox360 still has few compelling games. The PS3 already has more compelling games than the xbox360 does. Which is truly shocking. Also who's going to buy the incredibly expensive dx10 cards when they can get a close spec ps3?
    ignore poster"

    The ps3 has no games AT THE MOMENT. None nada zero zilch. Come november (of the ps3 is released by then , frankly some bad storys out about yields on cell) then compare. Because lets us remember the wait for GT3 (a fantastic game when released)

    Have you played any 360 games? PGR3 is very very good. The demo for Lost World is frankly fantastic. Capcom really showing how good they can be when they want to be. And that is just 1 released, and 1 about to be and there are plenty more in my library already. (lots of other examples, just picking some)

    On a technical level it is pretty much common ground that the standard nvidia solution that sony had to buy because of failed internal projects is not up to the standard of the ati soloution in the 360. Still a great chip, but definitively not better, and probably worse.

    The question is whether 3 general purpose cpu cores (360) is better then 1 general purpose cpu cores + 7 specialist vector procesors(ps3) ( which have bandwith limitations on inter cpu communications designed in) . No-one YET knows the answer to this. And remember that GPU pipelines can also be used to accelerate physics (see havoc etc) and the 360 has these to burn.


    I do not yet know which system is better, but you, with no final PS3 hardware released do. Frankly the sort of retarded fanboyism you display really gets me down.

  • tengu #98 6 years ago

    "No i didn't purchase a PStwo, I decided it against when I heard about them catching fire."

    Hey snap! Same reason I didn't buy an Xbox too quickly :)

    Nice try again.

  • IronGiant #99 6 years ago

    Considering the PS3 games like Heavenly Sword, Metal Gear 4 are 6 months from release they compare well to XBox360 games already. Anyway all this mass-debating is irrelevant in the big scheme of things, johnny public will decide who sells the most.

  • urban #100 6 years ago

    kinda bored of this sony microsoft addon and price war, its silly.

  • Krun #101 6 years ago

    I never played my DVDs on my old console, always used a nice stand alone mutli region player. Its like I never take photos with my phone, or need to use my microwave as a toaster.

  • Xerx3s #102 6 years ago

    "You have got to hand it to Sony. They have made a stunning looking machine, that is powerful with a built in Blu-Ray player.

    MS on the other hand have made a not so hot looking machine, that is both bigger and less powerful than Sony's Playstation 3. And to play HD-DVD and external bolt on player has to be purchased, making the X360 even bigger than it already is."


    Lol. If i didnt know any better, you would be talking exactly like a sony pr man.

    I was tempted to reply, but its not worth it. If you want to believe your fables, thats fine with me.

  • Psi #103 6 years ago

    @ bauhaus - if an external PSU dies you replace it; if an internal one dies you are potentially up shit street - without a psu


    Yeah but lets be fair, its a rare component to have any issues with. I know the 360 was runnig hot apparently, is there reports of them dying the death?

    I've never had a powersupply die on me. In all honesty I've had ps1's and seen ps2's lose their lazers in their disk drives very quickly. The ps2 from what I've seen with my brother has a 1year shelf life before the damn lazer packs up.

    And bluerays a new product! if sony couldn't build a decent CD drive in the ps1 or a decent drive for the ps2 that was based on established technology what chance do they have in the ps3?

  • Darren #104 6 years ago

    The reason Microsoft made the PSU external was because the 360 was already running hot and they wanted to make the machine smaller. If the PS3 has an internal PSU then I fear it'll be even more prone to overheating that the 360 is rumoured to be. And where are the ventillation holes on the PS3's case, the 360 has loads of them but I've not seen any on the PS3 screenshots I've seen... :?

  • Kafeen #105 6 years ago

    A lot of the extra cost of the PS3 has been attributed to the fact that you "get a bluray player built in!" - yeah wow!

    So basically, MS have given you the option of a "wait and see" approach (as in, HD-DVD doesn't become the next format - well you didn't buy the player, well done), wheras Sony ARE forcing you into a future media investment (as in, you WILL get a Blu-ray player, and you will be grateful for it too, you lucky swine!)
    People are often unsure about adopting new techologies, DVD was the was same, as were CDs. You often need a push to really get them out and shove them in people's faces. Sony did it with the PS2 to get DVDs out there.

    I too own Tons of DVDs (about 350+ I'd say at a guess), I own a ton more DVDs than I did VHS. I am not planning on owning a HD DVD or Blu-Ray movie until something drastic happens and there is finally a clear winner.

    I guess it worked then, no reason why it shouldn't work this time.

  • tonynibbles #106 6 years ago

    If the PS3 has an internal PSU then I fear it'll be even more prone to overheating that the 360 is rumoured to be...

    The PlayStation 3 has an internal PSU.

    And it has ventilation grills right the way along the back, and underneath the front.

    One can't jsut say it's going to be prone to overheating, simply because the machine has an internal PSU. I know nothing about the heat that CELL gives off, although its CELL architecture might suggest that its heat would be spread throughout it in a different way to a regular CPU.
    I'm sure Sony will have taken all the relevant steps to have the machine comply with safety standards, just as Im sure Microsoft did, which might have been a reason for an external PSU...

  • #107 6 years ago

    The PSU is one of the most suceptiple pieces of hardware associated with a console.
    Not only could a voltage spike damage it, but the power conumption from the 360 (and the PS3 i imagine) really test them and put large heat constraints on them.
    In my old xbox I had to unscrew it (after 3 or so years) and re-solder the contacts coming into the machine (PSU).

    It's important to remember that in the UK we have the largest mains voltage of any country, and so our PSUs are most at risk.
    The new 360 draws more than twice as much power as the old generation of consoles (around 170W as far as I remember). In my opinion a external PSU - you get a power surge, it dies, you get sent a new one in a few days. Internal - it dies, you have to send the conole off etc. You're now talking 8+ business days down-time. I like the way MS went personally.

    A someone said before, there's no reason to bash the PS3 - it's a simple choice - if the price doesn't justfy it for you, then don't get one.
    For me, I've got to see A LOT more games-wise from Sony to force my hand. Right now the price differential doesn't seem £150+ in terms of games quality, volume or enjoyment. In 3 months' time if it does, I may consider saving up for it. Right now we seem to be getting fed vapour and bullshit from Sony, with no real hard, definate stuff to draw upon. I mean there's o many things still uncomfirmed! Eg.:

    Online service - how will it work?
    UK price!!
    UK models available
    What ships with what model (cables, controllers etc)
    Unit specifications
    Exact solid launch titles
    Killzone - like the most hyped game of E3'05 - where the hell was it?

    If you're a Sony fanboy, can read that list and (bearing in mind we're now 6 months away from 'worldwide' launch) still blindly defend the conpany and console, then at least I envy you for your strong beleif system.
    Personally I like to look at evidence and fact, of which both things seem still very thin on the ground in terms of the PS3.
    Add into this the fact that I will have played a whole year of 'next-gen' content before you, including real quality titles like Oblivion, PGR3, GRAW (and the 'second generation due soon - Lost Planet, Gears of War) AND a great online system in Live - I guess I can see why blind determination that you have made the right loyalty association is a lot easier than admittance that the X360 is actually a very viable and quality system, faring well when compared to the competition.
    Edited by 1 at 17/05/06 @ 10:26

  • #108 6 years ago

    Kafeen,
    I'm sorry, but are you suggestion the adoption of DVDs was Sonys doing?
    Are you alo trying to compare VHS->DVD to DVD->BluRay? If so your logic i very flawed, as there was no competing format to DVD.

    Also, have you just plain forgotten for convenience about MiniDisc and UMD? Sony have a habit of shoving formats down people's throats that often don't succeed.

  • Psi #109 6 years ago

    dvd to vhs was needed because vhs was godawfull and people saw the benefit it was clear as day. I'm not going to get into the same argument I had yesterday but dvd quality is fine on sets within a certain size.

    gamers had cds around since the 80's consoles didn't even attempt to start taking them onboard till well after they were established. gamers were screaming out for their games to go onto CD however the hardware vendors messed up the implementation the amiga32CD the segacd, people didn't take to these because they were pointless upgrades to already established platforms.

    many will see the hd-dvd upgrade for the 360 in the same way. why bother, ill get a player for my films... how many people watch all their films on their ps2? or do they have a stand alone player?

  • bigbadbeasty #110 6 years ago

    I'm just looking forward to lightsaber fights on my 'inferior' Wii

    :)

    I'll just buy a HD-DVD recorder.... problem solved!
    Edited by 2 at 17/05/06 @ 10:36

  • #111 6 years ago

    beasty - I just hope you have the space in your room for it! - How will the force-feedback of that work anyway!??!
    :)

  • bigbadbeasty #112 6 years ago

    Oh yeah there is plenty of room.... There had better be, I wanna play doubles tennis too!

    I imagine the force-feedback can only be visual- but hey, its the closest i'll get to being a jedi.

    ;)

  • SeesThroughAll #113 6 years ago

    Wonga theres also efficiency and bottleneck restraints which Sony devs could run into(and most likely will) giving 360 the edge.

    AFAIK, this could only be because of the memory being split into 256MB for the Cell and 256Mb dedicated to the GPU, but the actual runtime strain is also split as well, one would think.
    And how is the 360 supposed to be "invulnerable" to memory bottlenecks? Because it uses a single 512Mb slit shared between the CPU and the GPU?

    I would like to understand the full story, could someone please explain this?

  • #114 6 years ago

    So you may not nessesarily be able to 'feel the force' - that sucks! :p

  • mono_eric3 #115 6 years ago

    Im a little confused as to why people are assuming there is going to be any winner in the Blu-Ray HD-DVD war.

    LaserDisc anyone?

    Film distribution formats dont work on the same 5-year turnover that consoles do. Ive got a huge DVD collection and a hefty VHS collection and I don't plan on re-buying everything for a 3rd time just to find that its just another DVD transfer but with snazzier menus.

    DVD was created 5 years before PS2 and PS2 helped bring it to the masses (despite its first generation DVD player being totally inept)

    Blu-Ray is being brought to the masses by PS3 - DVD had a head start, Blu-Ray does not.

    HD-DVD is cheaper to make, so it will be more attractive to distibutors. But I doubt either will catch on a film format. I think there will be specialist stuff on PS3 - I would say no more than the current (and now declining) UMD format. And HD-DVD will be the format for PC storage (but in a fair few years).

    And lets not forget the trend towards downloadable movies, which pretty much makes this 'war' a futile one.

    : D

  • bigbadbeasty #116 6 years ago

    mono_eric3 you make some great points, I had forgotten about the length of time between DVD launch and the actually launch of the consoles (PS2 and Xbox).

    If you look at Sony's previous formats (betamax, UMD, MiniDisc etc), Blu-Ray should crash and burn. But do you bet against the PlayStation brand?

  • AOFanboi #117 6 years ago

    <em>there was no competing format to DVD.</em>

    Unless you count (analog) LaserDiscs (failed outside America) or VCD (popular in Asia).

    What DVD did was unite Sony, Philips and the others in a common standard. The lessons learned then appear to have been lost, though, and hence the two competing formats.

  • AOFanboi #118 6 years ago

    <em>there was no competing format to DVD.</em>

    Unless you count (analog) LaserDiscs (failed outside America) or VCD (popular in Asia).

    What DVD did was unite Sony, Philips and the others in a common standard. The lessons learned then appear to have been lost, though, and hence the two competing formats.

  • jiveguy #119 6 years ago

    I carry my console, powersupply, controllers, cables and HDTV around on my back all the time and as such the consoles weight is very important to me.

  • #120 6 years ago

    Yeah I do know about Laserdisc, but as far as I was aware, that was pretty marginalised. And like you say, VCD is hardly worldwide either, and does not have the same quality.

    What I meant wa that thses two formats are very similar in performance. Hell, they are even both the same size and type. The perceivable differences between them (to the movie fan for example) will be negligable. So who can say at this point which is the clear winner.

  • Rambaldi #121 6 years ago

    I think the add-on thing is a great idea. I mean, I'd be a bit pissed if I went to buy a new car and was told that I could only buy the one with the full shebang for an inflated price. Picking and choosing wireless pads, network adapters, faceplates, HD-DVD drives, possibly Blu-Ray drives in the future etc. is consumer friendly.

    And what's with this whole power supply thing? I've not seen my supply once since I plugged my 360 in!! It's a bit like moaning that it's dusty under the fridge. WHO CARES!!

  • mono_eric3 #122 6 years ago

    An interesting little piece:

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/0 5/16/sony-throws-party-for-vaios-fakes-blu-ray-demo/

    Im not vouching for the story at all, but I am curious about whats happened to Sony's bulletproof PR tank of destruction - it seems to be taking a vacation.

    : D

  • bauhaus #123 6 years ago

    Some of the debate here has made me think, I mean I don`t buy DVD's, though I watch Divx's via my LiteOn, I`m hardly gonna rush out and pay a premium on Blu-ray movies (hollywood shite)



  • miiiguel #124 6 years ago

    I also don't understand why size, in non-portable consoles matter ? I have a pretty small house, but for the ones that matter, sheeesh!... I don't know..., must be tiny...!

    It's also pretty funny to read the comparisions between PS3 and 360, have some of you even know how the previous smell ? More powerfull, the PS3 ? I also read some back postsbragging about its 7 controllers... .

    360 does not look good, I can't argue with that, although I find it nicer than the barbecue.

    I don't like stripped ties, and there are people who love them.

  • Gradthrawn #125 6 years ago

    I remember seeing many of the same arguments when the PS2 was on the horizon and people were comparing its DVD based storage medium to the DC's CD based medium. I'm strictly contrasting initial arguments here, not the ultimate fate of the DC, as that part just doesn't parallel with MS and the 360 at all. Anyway, many of the biggest arguments were:

    "I don’t want a DVD player for higher quality video. If I wanted a DVD player I would buy a standalone player."

    "We're being forced to buy a DVD player and pay the additional cost for it. And to many people, a DVD player is not important."

    "With the DC, I have a choice, I can go out and buy a DVD player if I want to."

    "The DC's CDs have more than enough space, especially with the compression they're using."

    I think, to a certain extent, these arguments had merit, just as the parallel arguments being raised against the PS3 do. Of course, counterpoints by Playstation fans and enthusiast always brought up pricing and "value." However, ultimately, (as I see it, at least) if you don't want a Hi-Def movie player, then ignore its movie playback functionality. Regardless of whether or not you take advantage of movie playback, the games can be BD based and offer greater storage potential. Just as with the PS2, games could be DVD based and take advantage of the greater storage potential over CD. Although in the PS3’s case, all games will be based on the higher capacity medium from day one, as per a requirement recently outlined by SCE. The required hardware to handle the processing of Blu-Ray movies is already there, and we would pay for that regardless of everything else, as those items are a part of the system's functionality as a game machine.

    Now, whether or not Sony adopted the Blu-ray format to push a standard they have a highly vested interest in, is, to me, largely irrelevant. Simply because they're not adding on a Blu-ray player solely for the sake of movie playback thereby driving up the periphery cost of the device. They're integrating Blu-ray into the device, as a function of it as a game machine, thereby driving up the functional cost of the device as a game machine. As I say that, I can't help but laugh since I'm undoubtedly sure that Sony's marketing department wants everyone to think of it that way too. Think of it as if BD movie playback is a bonus, and that they're doing us a "favor" by including playback for free. lol! But, I think there is actually some merit to that statement.

    Look at this way, if Microsoft had launched a year later, along side the PS3 and Revolution (yes, I said Revolution), they would have picked a higher capacity storage format to be included in the box and ran with it. Whether the format ultimately succeeded commercially or not would be largely irrelevant, since developers could and would still use them for their higher capacity. Just as we'll see with UMD, as its commercial viability dies off, games will still largely be published on UMD. The only alternative is to use a smaller distribution medium, (in the PSPs case that would be digital distribution onto memory sticks). DVD just made sense for MS given the timing.

    For those truly not interested in Hi-Def movies, the “tard” pack is there for them. It includes none of the extra stuff that is not directly tied to the PS3’s functionality as a game machine (WiFi, media slots, HDMI for 1080p), but does include everything that is needed to play games (HDD, BD-ROM, and Bluetooth).

    Now, here's where, as I see it, things do not parallel with the CD vs DVD based game medium, and count against Sony adopting BD as the PS3’s standard storage medium. By the time the PS2 came out, many CD based games (the then standard), across all platforms, had already surpassed the CD's storage potential. I can think of numerous games, and other non-game based products, that spanned multiple CDs. 3 or 4 in many cases (and far upwards in some cases). I can only think of maybe a handful of games on any platform that have spanned multiple DVDs because they could not fit all of the content they wanted to include on 1 DVD (whether it be game based content or not). I think this is one of the strong indicators that there’s plenty of life left in the DVD medium in terms of needed space.

    I think what will ultimately determine if the adoption of a higher capacity medium for games was a smart move (in this generation) is if developers use that additional space in a meaningful way that enhances the end-user experience. “DVD style” extras, like those offered with MG3 Subsistence, are nice, but I would be just as happy having those type of extras on multiple DVDs as I would having them on one BD. But, region free games with a selectable audio track all on one BD, I find that to be something that’s a bit more compelling (and feasible for developers/publishers). That’s nice for importers and even better in the case of bad localized voice acting. Personally, I would rather read subtitles and listen to natural sounding voices, then have to tolerate bad voice acting. That’s just one example I can think of off hand that may or may not be taken advantage of.

    On Noise Level
    Someone brought up noise levels for the PS3, and that Sony announced that the noise level would be as low as it is for the slimline PS2. Someone countered by saying that they made that announcement when they announced the 2 HDMI ports, 3 Ethernet ports and so on, which is a false statement. The noise level announcement came at the same time they announced the scaled back near final specs for the PS3, that is in there E3 ’06 press pack announcements.

    On Dual Video Outputs
    The full version has both HDMI and standard A/V out. According to SCE, dual output like what was originally announced (and boasted about) will not be possible. Both outputs will be displaying the same thing.

    <a href=http:// ps3.ign.com/articles/708/708601p1.html>
    ----------------------------
    The original PS3 model shown at last year's E3 had two HDMI ports. On Monday, Sony unveiled the final system's design, and the 60 gigabyte high-end model, the only model to include HDMI, had just one port. IT Media asked the big question -- what in the world happened? Kawanishi admitted that the port count has dropped down to one, but added that Sony is looking into the possibility of including two in the future.

    Back at last year's E3, Sony hinted that games might use the two outputs for dual screened play options. With the port count down to one, IT Media asked if it would be possible to have the HDMI port and the D4/D5 ports used to mimic dual screened functionality. You can have video coming out of both ports simultaneously, Kawanishi revealed, but the signals are the same, meaning this is something that couldn't be used for gaming.
    ----------------------------
    </a>

    On the transition from VHS>>DVD>>HD
    I don't understand the argument of having to replace one's entire library over again with the switch to an HD video medium. With VHS to DVD, there is no cross compatibility. With DVD and BD/HD DVD standard DVDs are fully compatible with the new players, and the players I've seen announced will up-convert standard DVDs to 1080p. I see no reason why one would feel the need to convert their entire library over to HD. It would seem like one would simply want to add onto their current library with movies on a new format in the cases that content is being offered that can't be done on standard DVD. Java based interactive functions seem to be one of the biggest pushes across the board for such content.
    Edited by 2 at 17/05/06 @ 14:16

  • miiiguel #126 6 years ago

    @_neon:
    you forgot your comment: "while the Xbox 360 is struggling to break the 1 per cent barrier.
    It's all good." (sic.)

    Sorry for the "kiss and tell...".
    Peace!

  • Polymath #127 6 years ago

    Correction guys:
    Laserdiscs 1) preceeded Compact Discs, and provided the basis for creating CDs. 2) did very well in Japan and HK. I've got over 100.

    DVDs replaced older video technology.

    IMO, LDs failed to displace VHS in the US and the Europe because 1) quality was better but not that much better, 2) Unwieldy and slow. Searching LDs was a very slow process. 3) Expensive... most of my LDs cost 50-100 dollars. (US)

    In HK and Japan, LDs made up the bulk of trade in sales and rentals during that period

    CDV (video) used the same encoding as an LD, but was CD-5 sized. This meant the videos were really short... and that didn't go anywhere except for short music videos.

    VCDs came out making lower resolution movies... but look ok on small TVs, somewhat comparable to VHS. For low qual, unloved films, this became the rental/purchase medium of choice in HK and S China. They didn't do as well in Japan.

    I can't speak to purchase patterns in S Korea... TW was similar to HK.

    So the adoption of DVD in HK and Japan happened reasonably rapidly for several reasons IMO
    Similar improvment in resolution, from VCD?LD to DVD Better sound....
    But most importantly: portable, quicker startup and better search/scan functions.

    If I had my way, I'd replace everything with HDef DIVX or XVID. I can't find anything more convenient.

  • thinktank #128 6 years ago

    Sliced bread, i find that quite convenient

  • mono_eric3 #129 6 years ago

    Some very good points here. The possibilites of Blu-Ray as a gaming platform are indeed huge, and they outweigh HD-DVD mainly because the HD-DVD is a 360 add-on and therefore any game using it is limiting its market.

    As a home video format I don't see either being that attractive. Blu-Ray discs are more expensive to make so the first batch of titles could well be the wrong side of £30 here in the UK and HD-DVD just isn't as big. With HD set-top boxes, and 16Mb internet connections for £10 I think downloadable or over-the-air is the next leap in video storage.

    : D