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X360 with internal HD-DVD? News
Xbox 360 News by Tom Bramwell
Microsoft has started work on a new Xbox 360 that comes equipped with an internal HD-DVD drive, according to a report.
Yes we're back to this again - with DigiTimes claiming that the company is "selecting manufacturers in Taiwan to build the [internal] drive", and quoting unnamed sources within the local optical disc drive industry.
Unfortunately it turns out "Microsoft doesn't comment on rumour or speculation", so they've nothing to say about the report's claims that an HD-DVD-equipped 360 could be ready to go within the first half of 2007.
And there's certainly been a lot of rumour and speculation to comment on lately, not helped by their own pals in the HD-DVD gambit - as in June, when Mark Whittard, general manager of Toshiba's Information Systems Division in Australia, said, "I would imagine that there are plans in place to put an HD-DVD drive internally in future revisions of the product."
Microsoft has been adamant, however, that it was committed only to an external HD-DVD drive - believed to be set to retail for £199.99 in the UK this Christmas - and that the drive would not repeat not be used to play games in any capacity, unlike Sony's competing Blu-ray format, which is one of the key pillars of the PlayStation 3 offering.
There's been chatter about hardware revisions to Xbox 360 in the past, however, including one report, complete with fuzzy picture, that claimed Microsoft was working on a new version of the console with an HDMI port built in - something that, Microsoft happily informed us, was nothing but "rumour and speculation".
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BadBoyBonner
13/09/06 @ 14:26
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And what off the extra MH'z on offer for the reduced 65nm (from 90nm) fabrication that has also been mooted for 2007?
Seems the Xbox360 before us now may become a hand-me-down faster than even the Nintendo DS! Lol |
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manic_mouse
13/09/06 @ 14:32
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"And what off the extra MH'z on offer for the reduced 65nm (from 90nm) fabrication that has also been mooted for 2007? "
What on earth are you talking about? A 65nm fab process just means the chips are smaller and maybe a little cooler. It means they're cheaper to produce, and not much else. |
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philantropy
13/09/06 @ 14:46
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I love my xbox 360 but If microsoft does this, and forces consumers to buy an external HD-DVD drive, or a new xbox with integrated drive altogether, just we can play HD-DVD exclusive games then it'll be the biggest ever breach of trust. Not after all the denials they've made.
I'll sell my xbox 360 and head over to Sony's camp.. I'm a fanboy not an idiot |
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manic_mouse
13/09/06 @ 14:50
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"along with the new processor build (the latter confirmed if I am correct). "
Why is everyone banging on about the "new processor"? You wont even be able to tell the difference between 360's with the "new" processor and the "old" processor. For all intents and purposes they will be identical. They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice. |
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They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice.
They'll be cooler, meaning your machine will be less likely to overheat, may run quieter and could overclock better. Wait, scratch that last one, getting confused... |
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"They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice."
Technically the only one noticing the difference will be MS as their costs per unit go down. Doesn't mean they will pass it on to the consumer. Only if Wii and PS3 give them a hard time. |
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WHy would MS up the production costs of every 360 by building in a HDDVD drive that is only going to be used for movies? They would loose their large price advantage over sony (even allowing for cost reductions in the new CPU). Add in a HDMI port (Which is essential if you are touting it as a fully HD solution for movies) and the cost goes up again.
The only way MS would do this is to make a third option, a "movie" edition. For games to then require a HD drive would be completely stupid and I doubt any developers would do that as they are limiting their market to those select hardcore few with either the top spec system or the HD addon. I will buy a HDDVD player (standalone) when they are viable and cheaper in a couple of years and not before. |
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manic_mouse
13/09/06 @ 15:08
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"They'll be cooler, meaning your machine will be less likely to overheat, may run quieter and could overclock better."
If your machine overheats at all then it's faulty: You should send it back! The reason MS are switching to 65nm (along with everyone else, might I add) is because it makes chips cheaper to produce as you can fit more on a wafer.
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PlugMonkey
13/09/06 @ 15:27
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So, worst case scenario, IF MS make an integrated system, and then IF they start releasing games on HD-DVD, owners of the original systems will have to buy their games on 3 discs instead of one.
I think I could cope. In fact, the same thing would happen if cross platform games get to the point of using all of a Blu-ray disc anyway. One disk on PS3, multiple discs on 360. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could cope. Although the trip from my sofa to my 360 is an awful long way to have to go 2 or 3 times per playthrough of an entire game. |
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"Early adopters should not moan. Production costs were too high before."
If this really is true, which I doubt, than the main reason is likely to have been getting something/anything to market before Sony did. Nothing to do with production costs. Surely they'll not be so stupid to also use it for storing game data. |
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A hardware revision is what I was (and still am) hoping for. The first 360 model is simply too loud/hot/power consuming/heavy for me.
If it is with a internal HD-DVD drive, even better, but it would be a mistake to use it for more than just movie playback (ie games). Not from a technical standpoint but from a marketing point of view. |
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"Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could cope. Although the trip from my sofa to my 360 is an awful long way to have to go 2 or 3 times per playthrough of an entire game."
Not all games lend themselves to disk swapping, only the (semi) linear type like the (past) Final Fantasies or Resident Evils. But e.g. the free roaming games, like GTA, would be horrible to play on multiple disks. |
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insane_cobra
13/09/06 @ 15:54
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I say bogus. Their strategy is built around the Core system because it's their ticket to below-$200-land (around 60-70% of PS2 units sold only after it hit the $200 mark). It wouldn't make much sense introducing an expensive model with HD-DVD built in, and even if they did that, I don't see the drive ever being used for games because it would negate the whole Core system strategy.
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They'll never make games on HD-DVD. That would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who owns a 360 now (nearly 7 million of us). Plus, the HD-DVD bundled 360 is going to cost a lot more, which leads me to believe that they'll continue selling the original version and thus have 3 sku's to choose from. Even if it's cheaper to make the 360 by '07, it still won't be so cheap that they can sell it for $400 WITH hd-dvd. So, they'll need to keep the current bundles as well.
I just wish they could do something to make the thing less fragile. I was moving the 360 last night, oh so slowly, and the thing suddenly gave me the red ring of death. I almost fainted, but the console worked again after a couple shutdowns and restarts. |
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Looks like a good reason to hold off on buying a 360 for the moment. I doubt that they'll discontinue marketing the DVD based XBox 360s. They might discontinue the current Core system, and market the new version to high end gamers/home theatre enthusiasts as an "Ultra" edition, in a similar stratedgy to Sony. The move to a new fabrication process could push down the price of the Premium enough to render the Core edition obsolute.
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SeesThroughAll
13/09/06 @ 16:05
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If an internal HD-DVD drive becomes standard, it only makes sense that games will take advantage of this in the future. It's 1)inevitable and 2)a Good Thing(TM).
It's going to be interesting seeing most of the "9Gb is enough" crowd suddenly changing their opinion, just because MS "knows best". |
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insane_cobra
13/09/06 @ 16:20
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You people are not thinking straight, the Core system isn't going anywhere. They need it, and they'll need it even more after Wii launches.
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"If an internal HD-DVD drive becomes standard, it only makes sense that games will take advantage of this in the future. It's 1)inevitable and 2)a Good Thing(TM)."
I disagree with both points. I agree that it is inevitable that games will most likely need to have more than 9gb's of data, but not in this generation. Xbox720 will definitely need an HD-DVD drive or whatever the hell is out by then, but not the 360. You can use Resistance for the PS3 as an example, but what exactly is that 22gb's of info. comprised of? I think a lot of it is because the PS3 is supposedly region free, thus the need to include multiple languages, etc. So, it'll be that and a lot of FMV, which I can do without. The game itself probably takes 5 gigs. And - it's never a good thing to alienate millions of customers by forcing them to buy something they were originally told they wouldn't have to, just to be able to continue using the product. I can tell you right now that I'd be ticked off to no end if this happened as would millions of other people. As much as I dislike Sony, a move like that may send me over to their camp. |
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PlugMonkey
13/09/06 @ 16:27
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Not all games lend themselves to disk swapping, only the (semi) linear type like the (past) Final Fantasies or Resident Evils. But e.g. the free roaming games, like GTA, would be horrible to play on multiple disks.
True, but I'm not remotely convinced that the size of the disc is currently the No. 1 limitation on the size of your free-roaming open world. Sony have yet to come close to proving that Blu-ray is in any way necessary, or even advantageous, for next gen gaming. If and when that happens, and I if it does happen it won't be for quite a few years yet, I for one would rather buy my HD-DVD add on later when the price has come way down than be forced to buy it now and have it sitting there not doing anything. Whatever happens, it's still a load of fuss over nothing. |
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What I am scared of is Microsoft bringing out consoles with just a few hardware revisions and upgrades every six months.
Imagine something like Halo 4 only working on Xbox 720/2201/3360 (?!!) They need to stick with a standard: otherwise it looks as if they haven't got a clue in which direction they are going in. |
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darkphoenix
13/09/06 @ 16:29
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An X360 with internal HD-DVD could make me spend the 400€ M$ wants for their Premium pack.
Hope it is true. And I think early-adopters need to stop being egoistical. I couldn't afford the console at launch, they could and while I am still stuck in past generation gaming, they have enjoying a new system for a year. Fine by me, stop the moaning, please. The HD-DVD drive is not suposed to be used for games, and I'm fine with that. What I don't like is the idea of having external drives to consoles... That is pathetic. |
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SeesThroughAll
13/09/06 @ 16:31
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That's a good example of storage being put to good use: imagine how handy it would be for Bethesda if they could just ship Oblivion with all the in-game speech in many more languages, but in only one disc.
And - it's never a good thing to alienate millions of customers by forcing them to buy something they were originally told they wouldn't have to, just to be able to continue using the product. No, it's not a good thing, but like you said, the only thing that prevents MS from starting to do that is user choice. Which is the great thing about competition, Sony should (which they often don't) think twice about doing that kind of crap to consumers.
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BadBoyBonner
13/09/06 @ 16:46
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**manic_mouse**
Microsoft will upgrade the CPU used in its Xbox 360 games console early next year, the CPU's manufacturer announced today. The new CPU will be built using technology that can reduce heat and power consumption, as well as potentially increasing speed. It will also help Microsoft cut the console's cost. The new 65nm technology is also capable of running software faster than that used in the existing Xbox 360 CPU, Chartered said. But the company did not state whether the CPU's performance when running software would be upgraded in any way to take advantage of this potential. |
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Any CPU upgrade will NOT affect the games performance. This is standardised accross all hardware revisions.
The playstation had loads of different chips over its lifetime. But for compatibility they all did things according to the original standard. The only reason for new chips is manufacturing costs. You might get more favourable heat and power consumption
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most recently on 13/09/06 @ 17:48
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You can use Resistance for the PS3 as an example, but what exactly is that 22gb's of info. comprised of? I think a lot of it is because the PS3 is supposedly region free, thus the need to include multiple languages, etc. So, it'll be that and a lot of FMV, which I can do without. The game itself probably takes 5 gigs.
Actually the developers of resistance clarified what space is being used for what. Ted Price's Blog Ted Price The second topic that has been surfacing a lot lately is our support of Blu-ray as a medium. Yes it is true - we are currently using more than 20 gigs. And yes, we do compress our level data. The fact that we store so much on disc is actually not that surprising when you look at the numbers. Consider that even with compression, each of our “levels” (or loaded areas) has more than 300 megs of unique data. And keep in mind that we’re also streaming data during level playthroughs. It doesn't take too much level data before you've gone past what can be stored on a dual-layer DVD. And between single player and multiplayer we have a lot of level data (over 40 different large loaded areas) – yes, more than will fit on a dual layer DVD. If you count using you're fingers and toes that's 300 * 40 = 12000 = 12Gb of level data alone (i think that exceeds a DVD) not even including the Audio for all the regions, neither does it use CGI FMV. Considering that Halo 3 is going back to Halo 1 it's going to be using similar large area's like Resistance it'd be interesting to see how Halo 3 pans out in that area. /Smokes Cigar |
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BadBoyBonner
13/09/06 @ 16:59
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What about the "Holy Grail" where the blades don't have v-sync issues surely an extra mhz for that please! lol
Will be nice if they can get it the mW heat levels down low enough for a passively cooled 360 although I would hazard that the HD an DVD drives will still be troublesome. If the drive is incorporated will MS make the package a Premium Deluxe xbox360? Lol Maybe they will chrome up the power button as well as the drive tray just so ya can tell like! Feel the quality! Maybe ya could go large an get 60 extra Gb's for the drive too!!
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BadBoyBonner
13/09/06 @ 17:07
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Hehehe I can remember Tony Takoushi ranting on about how the Atari 1040st had a space invader game that was going over the 512Kb and into one meg territory! lol
Golden days....lol Who give's a rats if Halo3 came on two discs, one multiplayer, one single player or whatever. PC games can just about use as much as they want, an not seen that many 30 Gb installs just at the moment to be honest. Greater capacity is no a brainer when everything else in the sytem is increasing so much, but, would hazard a guess that ya can make a semi decent game with 9Gb's! Infact my steam account has HL1 HL2 lost Coast, Both versions of Day of Defeat loads of other cack I never touch an still only taking 8Gb's on my hardrive!
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Been here before with the Atari ST!
You know your internal drive is 720K (double sided), but all the software is released on 360K (single sided) disks, hence plenty of unnecessary disk-swapping (good excuse for piracy when the game comes on one disk!). I think you would find that if they integrate a HD drive the new owners will be the ones who lose out (at least in the short-to-mid term) as softcos will need to ensure they cover the entire userbase. Mind you, in 2008/9 when you buy a HD-DVD game and have to send it to EA to get the regular DVD version then we *might* have a problem (c'mon, you would have upgraded by then?)! Seriously, I would be amazed if anyone pulled this kind of shit detailed above these days!!!
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