X360 with internal HD-DVD?
More rumours from Taiwan.
Microsoft has started work on a new Xbox 360 that comes equipped with an internal HD-DVD drive, according to a report.
Yes we're back to this again - with DigiTimes claiming that the company is "selecting manufacturers in Taiwan to build the [internal] drive", and quoting unnamed sources within the local optical disc drive industry.
Unfortunately it turns out "Microsoft doesn't comment on rumour or speculation", so they've nothing to say about the report's claims that an HD-DVD-equipped 360 could be ready to go within the first half of 2007.
And there's certainly been a lot of rumour and speculation to comment on lately, not helped by their own pals in the HD-DVD gambit - as in June, when Mark Whittard, general manager of Toshiba's Information Systems Division in Australia, said, "I would imagine that there are plans in place to put an HD-DVD drive internally in future revisions of the product."
Microsoft has been adamant, however, that it was committed only to an external HD-DVD drive - believed to be set to retail for £199.99 in the UK this Christmas - and that the drive would not repeat not be used to play games in any capacity, unlike Sony's competing Blu-ray format, which is one of the key pillars of the PlayStation 3 offering.
There's been chatter about hardware revisions to Xbox 360 in the past, however, including one report, complete with fuzzy picture, that claimed Microsoft was working on a new version of the console with an HDMI port built in - something that, Microsoft happily informed us, was nothing but "rumour and speculation".
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Comments (88) Latest comment 5 years ago
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jeez... :-/
well let's just hope this one will be quieter than the last one. With PGR3 in the drive it sounds like a hairdryer
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Seems the Xbox360 before us now may become a hand-me-down faster than even the Nintendo DS! Lol
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sony have been talking about upgrades for the ps3 too you know.
And msoft have always said about hddvd being for films only...
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What on earth are you talking about? A 65nm fab process just means the chips are smaller and maybe a little cooler. It means they're cheaper to produce, and not much else.
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In black for 400 quid ! :-D
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Indeed a bargin!
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I am waiting for that HDMI port and the built in HD-DVD along with the new processor build (the latter confirmed if I am correct).
And I will probably get angry.
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I'll sell my xbox 360 and head over to Sony's camp.. I'm a fanboy not an idiot
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Just get the PS3.
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Why is everyone banging on about the "new processor"?
You wont even be able to tell the difference between 360's with the "new" processor and the "old" processor. For all intents and purposes they will be identical.
They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice.
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Don't worry! You can always use it as a heater. ;p
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I think that was his point...
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They'll be cooler, meaning your machine will be less likely to overheat, may run quieter and could overclock better.
Wait, scratch that last one, getting confused...
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Technically the only one noticing the difference will be MS as their costs per unit go down. Doesn't mean they will pass it on to the consumer. Only if Wii and PS3 give them a hard time.
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MS you've been warned.
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The only way MS would do this is to make a third option, a "movie" edition. For games to then require a HD drive would be completely stupid and I doubt any developers would do that as they are limiting their market to those select hardcore few with either the top spec system or the HD addon.
I will buy a HDDVD player (standalone) when they are viable and cheaper in a couple of years and not before.
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If your machine overheats at all then it's faulty: You should send it back! The reason MS are switching to 65nm (along with everyone else, might I add) is because it makes chips cheaper to produce as you can fit more on a wafer.
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Same thing?
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This is an excellent idea.
Early adopters should not moan. Production costs were too high before.
(PS Games will still only be supplied on DVD which the HD-DVD drive can read! Get it, got it good. )
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I think I could cope.
In fact, the same thing would happen if cross platform games get to the point of using all of a Blu-ray disc anyway. One disk on PS3, multiple discs on 360.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could cope. Although the trip from my sofa to my 360 is an awful long way to have to go 2 or 3 times per playthrough of an entire game.
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If this really is true, which I doubt, than the main reason is likely to have been getting something/anything to market before Sony did. Nothing to do with production costs.
Surely they'll not be so stupid to also use it for storing game data.
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If it is with a internal HD-DVD drive, even better, but it would be a mistake to use it for more than just movie playback (ie games). Not from a technical standpoint but from a marketing point of view.
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Not all games lend themselves to disk swapping, only the (semi) linear type like the (past) Final Fantasies or Resident Evils. But e.g. the free roaming games, like GTA, would be horrible to play on multiple disks.
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I just wish they could do something to make the thing less fragile. I was moving the 360 last night, oh so slowly, and the thing suddenly gave me the red ring of death. I almost fainted, but the console worked again after a couple shutdowns and restarts.
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It's going to be interesting seeing most of the "9Gb is enough" crowd suddenly changing their opinion, just because MS "knows best".
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And guess what, it's a bloody good thing if it happens.
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I disagree with both points.
I agree that it is inevitable that games will most likely need to have more than 9gb's of data, but not in this generation. Xbox720 will definitely need an HD-DVD drive or whatever the hell is out by then, but not the 360. You can use Resistance for the PS3 as an example, but what exactly is that 22gb's of info. comprised of? I think a lot of it is because the PS3 is supposedly region free, thus the need to include multiple languages, etc. So, it'll be that and a lot of FMV, which I can do without. The game itself probably takes 5 gigs.
And - it's never a good thing to alienate millions of customers by forcing them to buy something they were originally told they wouldn't have to, just to be able to continue using the product. I can tell you right now that I'd be ticked off to no end if this happened as would millions of other people. As much as I dislike Sony, a move like that may send me over to their camp.
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True, but I'm not remotely convinced that the size of the disc is currently the No. 1 limitation on the size of your free-roaming open world. Sony have yet to come close to proving that Blu-ray is in any way necessary, or even advantageous, for next gen gaming.
If and when that happens, and I if it does happen it won't be for quite a few years yet, I for one would rather buy my HD-DVD add on later when the price has come way down than be forced to buy it now and have it sitting there not doing anything.
Whatever happens, it's still a load of fuss over nothing.
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Imagine something like Halo 4 only working on Xbox 720/2201/3360 (?!!)
They need to stick with a standard: otherwise it looks as if they haven't got a clue in which direction they are going in.
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Hope it is true.
And I think early-adopters need to stop being egoistical.
I couldn't afford the console at launch, they could and while I am still stuck in past generation gaming, they have enjoying a new system for a year.
Fine by me, stop the moaning, please.
The HD-DVD drive is not suposed to be used for games, and I'm fine with that.
What I don't like is the idea of having external drives to consoles...
That is pathetic.
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And - it's never a good thing to alienate millions of customers by forcing them to buy something they were originally told they wouldn't have to, just to be able to continue using the product.
No, it's not a good thing, but like you said, the only thing that prevents MS from starting to do that is user choice. Which is the great thing about competition, Sony should (which they often don't) think twice about doing that kind of crap to consumers.
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Microsoft will upgrade the CPU used in its Xbox 360 games console early next year, the CPU's manufacturer announced today. The new CPU will be built using technology that can reduce heat and power consumption, as well as potentially increasing speed. It will also help Microsoft cut the console's cost. The new 65nm technology is also capable of running software faster than that used in the existing Xbox 360 CPU, Chartered said. But the company did not state whether the CPU's performance when running software would be upgraded in any way to take advantage of this potential.
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The playstation had loads of different chips over its lifetime. But for compatibility they all did things according to the original standard.
The only reason for new chips is manufacturing costs. You might get more favourable heat and power consumption
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Actually the developers of resistance clarified what space is being used for what.
<a href= http://blogs.ign.com/Ted-Insomniac/2006/09/07/30283/> Ted Price's Blog</a>
Ted Price
The second topic that has been surfacing a lot lately is our support of Blu-ray as a medium. Yes it is true - we are currently using more than 20 gigs. And yes, we do compress our level data. The fact that we store so much on disc is actually not that surprising when you look at the numbers. Consider that even with compression, each of our “levels” (or loaded areas) has more than 300 megs of unique data. And keep in mind that we’re also streaming data during level playthroughs. It doesn't take too much level data before you've gone past what can be stored on a dual-layer DVD. And between single player and multiplayer we have a lot of level data (over 40 different large loaded areas) – yes, more than will fit on a dual layer DVD.
If you count using you're fingers and toes that's 300 * 40 = 12000 = 12Gb of level data alone (i think that exceeds a DVD) not even including the Audio for all the regions, neither does it use CGI FMV.
Considering that Halo 3 is going back to Halo 1 it's going to be using similar large area's like Resistance it'd be interesting to see how Halo 3 pans out in that area.
/Smokes Cigar
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Will be nice if they can get it the mW heat levels down low enough for a passively cooled 360 although I would hazard that the HD an DVD drives will still be troublesome.
If the drive is incorporated will MS make the package a Premium Deluxe xbox360? Lol
Maybe they will chrome up the power button as well as the drive tray just so ya can tell like! Feel the quality!
Maybe ya could go large an get 60 extra Gb's for the drive too!!
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Golden days....lol
Who give's a rats if Halo3 came on two discs, one multiplayer, one single player or whatever. PC games can just about use as much as they want, an not seen that many 30 Gb installs just at the moment to be honest. Greater capacity is no a brainer when everything else in the sytem is increasing so much, but, would hazard a guess that ya can make a semi decent game with 9Gb's!
Infact my steam account has HL1 HL2 lost Coast, Both versions of Day of Defeat loads of other cack I never touch an still only taking 8Gb's on my hardrive!
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You know your internal drive is 720K (double sided), but all the software is released on 360K (single sided) disks, hence plenty of unnecessary disk-swapping (good excuse for piracy when the game comes on one disk!).
I think you would find that if they integrate a HD drive the new owners will be the ones who lose out (at least in the short-to-mid term) as softcos will need to ensure they cover the entire userbase.
Mind you, in 2008/9 when you buy a HD-DVD game and have to send it to EA to get the regular DVD version then we *might* have a problem (c'mon, you would have upgraded by then?)!
Seriously, I would be amazed if anyone pulled this kind of shit detailed above these days!!!
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Until then I do believe that there are smart ways to use the advantage of a medium that can hold much more than a DVD9. Imagine a futuristic Survival Horror game with a labyrinth full of screens that are playing (not simultaneously of course) films or clips in HD containing hints for the game. Or a FPS in which a level can be displayed with many different textures depending on the month and time of your system clock - playing the same level in winter would confront you with snowcovered houses and slippery streets demanding a different strategy than playing the same game in July. The question here would probably be one of costs...does it really make any sense to put that much effort into one single game? I guess from a commercial point of view it's better to do a sequel and charge full price again
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The most visually stunning console game of the last generation fits on a 1.5GB 8cm miniDVD disk (Metroid Prime - GC).
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And another thing,what are these Blu-Ray discs going to cost?Has there been any confirmation on the RRP of games on this format?.Surely they'll cost a fair whack more than games on dvd discs.
Edit:Just checked some screenshots of Resistance on IGN,admiteddly it looks lovely,but no more lovely than say Call of duty 3 :/
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No thanks. I'd rather have better looking games and a slightly jerky system menu than an OS that eats a significant amount of ram.
My problem with the whole 22gb Resistance thing is i'm yet to see any reason why the thing should take up that much space - unless the space is being taken up for the sake of it.
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Only exclusive studio that is releasing only on HD-DVD is Universal. Recent hits are Curious George and Miami Vice.
All this talk about HDMI, 360, etc is pointless unless there are actual movies to watch.
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Sony do something similar, 2000 post thread of hate
nice
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When did MP become the 'most visually stunning console game of the last generation'? I can name atleast 20 games that look alot better.
As for size there is only one rule (someone mentioned it before in here) dev's are lazy and always out of time. Thus it is easy to take the short cuts where you end up with them taking up all the space you have given them and still demanding more. PC's have had better looking games for years and even the full HDD install doesn't normally get over 1,5 GB (let's say 4-5GB when it's really sloppy or large). Let's face it, PGC is the future and it doesn't take up 50 gig, unlike some CGI games.
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If to you it's all about 'choice' you'd better get a PC so that you can pick every single part yourself. In my opninion, with consoles 'choice' is a very bad thing (except of course being able to choose between various manufacturers). I don't want to read system requirements or get buggy games. It's a real shame MS started this trend and Sony followed. Although I've got no clue about the actual sales figures, I wouldn't be surprised if the cheaper model would account for a marginal percentage of sales.
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damn my speed reading.
I thought cutscenes wether they were CGI or In-game were both forms of video. :/
Doesn't deny the fact that Resistance takes up 12Gb in level data alone.
Metroid is damn fine looking game but the whole map is broken up into tiny parts sometimes it takes a few seconds to load up the next room.
Disc Space doesn't determine how good a game will look graphically that's what a CPU and GPU are for. :/
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Nor does it mean the opposite. But you have to admit that at least up till the PS2-generation, developers have consistenly done good things with the added space. I think we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt.
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His point was that without that stuff the game occupies more space than is available on a single dvd. Please learn to read.
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I think anyone who says 360 games will NEVER come on HD-DVDs is suffering from a serious case of denial...
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It probably could (as could PS3) but to have multiple storage media for games, don't know if that's such a good thing if you want to have consoles go mainstream.
But with regards to the built-in HD-DVD player, come to think of it, it would make sense as it's probably cheaper to manufacture a 360 with an internal drive versus manufacturing a standard 360 with an external one. But from a marketing point of view it feels more akward for an internal drive not to be used for games than an external one.
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Yeah, it would be a bit awkward if next year we'll see 360's with built-in HD-DVD drives, whether games can or can't take advantage of it. It would make the 360 seem rushed. If it only plays movies, you could ask MS the question "would it have been so bad to have waited a year or so before launching the 360, so that games could have taken advantage of it?". If it will also play games, MS will have to explain why on earth they cut the previous generation short only to release a not-yet-finished console to the poor early adopter, whom they clearly mislead when they stated that they would never use HD-DVD for 360 games. But I'm sure MS's marketing geniuses can work the latter out...
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720 in 2008?!
Don't think capacity was ever demanded for games. But if you make it available, history tells us in general it's put to good use.
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So stop complaining.
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Seriously, I have to question whether the community of 360 owners shouldn't gather together and make a move for a class action should this come to fruition and plenty of public documentation exists regarding Microsoft's assurances to the contrary in order to encourage people to make early adoptions of their, now apparently, beta hardware.
If they lied here then I have NO confidence that HD-DVD games will not appear. On the contrary, considering that Dead Rising also proved that MS has no committment to ensuring that the console remains suitable for non-HDTV adopters, I'd say it's most likely a definite goal if the internal HD-DVD appears.
Sony have been lying about their release capabilities, at least they didn't lie to encourage us to make early purchases of hardware with the intention to alter the hardware to include a new feature after stating openly and publicly that they would not do so.
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"think this is good news. You can buy the HD-DVD drive seperatly anyway. If you want one with an internal HD-DVD drive, go out and buy one. If you don't like it don't. "
If you already have a 360 and you would have prefered an internal HD-DVD drive then those aren't really good news. External power supply, external drives - not really attractive.
I thinks it's unlikely, but possible to use the HD-DVD drive for games. Step by step. But yeah, the next Xbox might be released in 2 years anyway. I personally will wait quite a while before I get a 360. At least 1-2 years.
------------------------------------------
"Sony have been lying about their release capabilities"
- I don't think they have. It's down to one single component. They couldn't really know it would turn out that problematic to manufacture it. Bad luck.
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Fixed.
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If this rumour (and it is just a rumour) is true, the sales for MS's shiny new $200 external drive will evaporate like piss-steam (which I would imagine no small amount of money has been invested in already). It will also impact pre-Christmas sales for the 360, as a sniff of a better, more full featured machine in the offing next year will give potential buyers serious pause for thought.
I don't believe for a second that MS would be stupid enough to allow developers to make HD-DVD Roms, but a small number of people here seem to think it's a good idea to allow this rumoured revision to play games off HD-DVD. The reasons why that would be suicide seem self-evident to me, but clearly a few haven't thought this through.
If MS intends to have sold 10 million units by the end of this calendar year, that's 10 million machines that won't be capable of playing HD-DVD games. Either developers will have to produce/retailers will have to stock two different versions of each game for a single system; MS will have to go back on what they have said this week and allow the add-on drive to play HD-DVD Roms, and 10 million users will HAVE to buy them in order to play later titles; or the minute this revised machine is launched, 10 million paperweights are born. MS would be obliged to replace or upgrade every single one, or face the mother of all class action suits.
This seems an unlikely scenario to me.
This also seems a boring post to me, but I'm clicking the button anyway, SHAZZAM!
Edit = Spolling
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Oh, you know, sometimes things happen. Bad things. Let's say you decide to go swimming. You tell your 'costumers' you'll arrive at 6 pm. You take your rubber duck, your towel, your shovel and what not else; you check your car's oil, gas, the tires' pressure, you make sure your lights work and so on. You get in your car (or tricycle), get out on the road. Half way to your favourite pond you get hit by a car (not by your own, of course). Due to some health related consequences it will take you until next year to get to your pond (your duck got hurt, too). Bad luck. "Fixed".
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So ... it's still advantage to Sony's console!
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(and incase anyone missed it in the article "IT WONT PLAY GAMES OF A HDDVD" so it's like no issue..)
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Folks, history tells us that if Unca Bill and his minions decide that an internal HD drive is needed to help their plans for world domination, or that games need to use HD to compete with the PS3, they'll drop the early adopters like a sloppy turd sandwich without a second thought. MS has no history of trying to get things right first time or guilt in foisting upgrades on people. For all the f**kups they've done, one think Ken K and Ko do do is to at least *try* and get it right first time - even if it means horrible PR disasters like last week.
Consider it a hardware patch.
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All this is pretty well established in the "Duuuh" department.
Now, so far all multi dvd releases has been (as far as I know) pretty linar, it has mostly been cutscenes and thus they could include gamedata on both discs, but consider if Oblivion had been multiple discs. That would have presented a problem.
Now lets speculate: Fast forward a couple of years to Elder Scrolls 5, it's huge, it's the size of Daggerfall, perhaps even Arena (unlikely, that game had a play area the size of Iraq) the game of course is also improved visually, it all adds up to 20-25 gb. By now the standard Xbox360 comes with a built in HD-DVD. Bethesda gives MS an ultimatum, either you'll allow us to ship on HD-DVD only or this game won't come to your console. What do you think MS's reaction would be?
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It would surely raise the cost of the console, throwing away half of the advantage they have over the PS3. Not to mention it would piss off current 360 owners, and potnetial owners.
However, IF (and I'm 100% sure it isnt) it did happen I would bin it and just stick with the Wii and PC. Sony have already pissed all over their customers and if MS did this, they would be just as bad
I just cannot see this happening... It would be the stupist move since the 32x
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Not when it comes to billion € projects. You leave NOTHING to chance. Everything is calculated and thought out. This kind of thing happens purely by the thing mentioned above and bad communication.
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Sony 'pissed' over maybe 1/3 of it's POTENTIAL customers. If this all were true, which I can't believe, MS will be way more bad as they'd 'piss' over a couple of million EXISTING customers. But,
"I just cannot see this happening... It would be the stupist move since the 32x"
Totally agree.
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I think there are more billion € projects that don't meet their planning than projects that do. Examples: Vista, Space Shuttle program, every major infrastructure project, the Smart, etc. People are not good at big projects. In general either the deadline shifts or the scope is reduced. Things never go as planned.
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For those who think Microsoft wouldn't dare, I remember back to the early days of the xbox, where a massive price drop forced microsoft to hand out a load of free games to disgruntled owners as compensation. And the joke that was the limited edition crystal Xbox...
Besides which, with the external drive MS aren't alienating any existing users. Even if games did start using HD-DVD, MS would have to make sure they worked on the exernal drives. Reminds me of the PC Engine and its CD drive, the early machine with the addon drive could play the same CD games as the later units with internal CD drives. (Yes, I know the technology is completly different, but the idea is similar).
As for adding a HDMI port, that would be stupid now, but again other consoles have done similar things with ports, but generally thats done as a cost cutting measure. (e.g. Megadrive 2, early Playstations vs later Playstations).
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If MS do do this then the Xbox 360 is finished. PC gaming is relativly small compared to the console market because the mainstream buyer wants simplicty. You buy your game and you know its going to work. You dont have to look at the back of the box and check that your hardware measures up and dont have to worry about comptability programs.
If MS were to do this I for one will sell mine, pick up a Wii (which im doing anyway) and upgrade the PC.
For me it is a really dumb move, and I just can't see MS doing this. Your average joe probably doesnt even know the difference between DVD and Blu-ray. I dont belive it will help the 360 in any meaningful way. It will eaither compete with the PS3 or wont, HD-DVD or not.
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MS wont release an upgraded version of the console in terms of power capabilities to run games: what would they do if so ? give dev-kits to 3rd parties ? make these same 3rd parties 2 verisons of the same game: 1 for the 1st 500000000 users that allready gave a 360 a another to the new buyers ? it would be another system!!!! Get real! This console "thing" works beacuse it is a close system, companies can start develop a game now to be released in 2 years and still know exactly how it's gonna look in our houses!
A version with an interbal HDDVD I gues it's possible, and can make sense. But for the ones: "I'm glad I waited!" and "Why didn't I wait", I say "How much was worth these wonderfull ludic times, playing PGR3; Oblivion; FNR3; Table Tennis; Dead Rising; Saint's Row ?".
I can buy my console when I'm 80 years old, I bet I'll buy the latest and the greatest, compared to now...
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I'll eat my hat (yes I have one).