X360 with internal HD-DVD?

By Tom Bramwell Published 13 September, 2006

More rumours from Taiwan.

Microsoft has started work on a new Xbox 360 that comes equipped with an internal HD-DVD drive, according to a report.

Yes we're back to this again - with DigiTimes claiming that the company is "selecting manufacturers in Taiwan to build the [internal] drive", and quoting unnamed sources within the local optical disc drive industry.

Unfortunately it turns out "Microsoft doesn't comment on rumour or speculation", so they've nothing to say about the report's claims that an HD-DVD-equipped 360 could be ready to go within the first half of 2007.

And there's certainly been a lot of rumour and speculation to comment on lately, not helped by their own pals in the HD-DVD gambit - as in June, when Mark Whittard, general manager of Toshiba's Information Systems Division in Australia, said, "I would imagine that there are plans in place to put an HD-DVD drive internally in future revisions of the product."

Microsoft has been adamant, however, that it was committed only to an external HD-DVD drive - believed to be set to retail for £199.99 in the UK this Christmas - and that the drive would not repeat not be used to play games in any capacity, unlike Sony's competing Blu-ray format, which is one of the key pillars of the PlayStation 3 offering.

There's been chatter about hardware revisions to Xbox 360 in the past, however, including one report, complete with fuzzy picture, that claimed Microsoft was working on a new version of the console with an HDMI port built in - something that, Microsoft happily informed us, was nothing but "rumour and speculation".

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (88) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • onyxbox #1 5 years ago

    soon the 360 will be just like a PC and the Game boxes will have to list all the hardware configurations that the game supports...

    jeez... :-/

    well let's just hope this one will be quieter than the last one. With PGR3 in the drive it sounds like a hairdryer

  • Carrybagma #2 5 years ago

    There will not repeat not be a £10 price cut.

  • BadBoyBonner #3 5 years ago

    And what off the extra MH'z on offer for the reduced 65nm (from 90nm) fabrication that has also been mooted for 2007?

    Seems the Xbox360 before us now may become a hand-me-down faster than even the Nintendo DS! Lol

  • smelly #4 5 years ago

    >soon the 360 will be just like a PC

    sony have been talking about upgrades for the ps3 too you know.

    And msoft have always said about hddvd being for films only...

  • Foxclose #5 5 years ago

    Maybe we can also get some 1080p output via HDMI, 60GB Hard Drive and Wi-Fi adaptor?????

  • manic_mouse #6 5 years ago

    "And what off the extra MH'z on offer for the reduced 65nm (from 90nm) fabrication that has also been mooted for 2007? "

    What on earth are you talking about? A 65nm fab process just means the chips are smaller and maybe a little cooler. It means they're cheaper to produce, and not much else.

  • #7 5 years ago

    oh noes my 360 wot i bought is now obsolete wot will i do!

  • onyxbox #8 5 years ago

    Maybe we can also get some 1080p output via HDMI, 60GB Hard Drive and Wi-Fi adaptor?????

    In black for 400 quid ! :-D

  • jmctavish #9 5 years ago

    I guess it's only a matter of time before this happens. They could just release an "ultimate pack" with the internal drive.

  • Foxclose #10 5 years ago

    "In black for 400 quid ! :-D"

    Indeed a bargin! :)

  • Ainudil #11 5 years ago

    I am sorry, but I don't trust Microsoft for a nickel.

    I am waiting for that HDMI port and the built in HD-DVD along with the new processor build (the latter confirmed if I am correct).

    And I will probably get angry.

  • philantropy #12 5 years ago

    I love my xbox 360 but If microsoft does this, and forces consumers to buy an external HD-DVD drive, or a new xbox with integrated drive altogether, just we can play HD-DVD exclusive games then it'll be the biggest ever breach of trust. Not after all the denials they've made.

    I'll sell my xbox 360 and head over to Sony's camp.. I'm a fanboy not an idiot

  • Kafeen #13 5 years ago

    "Maybe we can also get some 1080p output via HDMI, 60GB Hard Drive and Wi-Fi adaptor?????"

    Just get the PS3.

  • manic_mouse #14 5 years ago

    "along with the new processor build (the latter confirmed if I am correct). "

    Why is everyone banging on about the "new processor"?

    You wont even be able to tell the difference between 360's with the "new" processor and the "old" processor. For all intents and purposes they will be identical.

    They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice.

  • sheepsteak #15 5 years ago

    I bet they release it in March over here. Cheeky scamps.

  • Xerx3s #16 5 years ago

    oh noes my 360 wot i bought is now obsolete wot will i do!

    Don't worry! You can always use it as a heater. ;p

  • Les #17 5 years ago

    "Just get the PS3."

    I think that was his point...

  • skillian #18 5 years ago

    They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice.

    They'll be cooler, meaning your machine will be less likely to overheat, may run quieter and could overclock better.

    Wait, scratch that last one, getting confused...

  • Les #19 5 years ago

    "They will be the same processor, but made with difference fab processes. 65nm processors will be cheaper for MS to produce. That is the only difference any of us will be able to notice."

    Technically the only one noticing the difference will be MS as their costs per unit go down. Doesn't mean they will pass it on to the consumer. Only if Wii and PS3 give them a hard time.

  • Steroyd #20 5 years ago

    Out of all the Mess ups Sony's done it would be nothing... and i mean NOTHING compared to a Xbox 360 with a HD-DVD internal Drive that plays HD-DVD games.

    MS you've been warned.

  • sharpfish #21 5 years ago

    WHy would MS up the production costs of every 360 by building in a HDDVD drive that is only going to be used for movies? They would loose their large price advantage over sony (even allowing for cost reductions in the new CPU). Add in a HDMI port (Which is essential if you are touting it as a fully HD solution for movies) and the cost goes up again.

    The only way MS would do this is to make a third option, a "movie" edition. For games to then require a HD drive would be completely stupid and I doubt any developers would do that as they are limiting their market to those select hardcore few with either the top spec system or the HD addon.

    I will buy a HDDVD player (standalone) when they are viable and cheaper in a couple of years and not before.

  • manic_mouse #22 5 years ago

    "They'll be cooler, meaning your machine will be less likely to overheat, may run quieter and could overclock better."

    If your machine overheats at all then it's faulty: You should send it back! The reason MS are switching to 65nm (along with everyone else, might I add) is because it makes chips cheaper to produce as you can fit more on a wafer.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 16:09

  • gaselite #23 5 years ago

    "I'm a fanboy not an idiot"

    Same thing?

  • blender #24 5 years ago

    the external drive is ugly.
    This is an excellent idea.
    Early adopters should not moan. Production costs were too high before.

    (PS Games will still only be supplied on DVD which the HD-DVD drive can read! Get it, got it good. )
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 16:38

  • PlugMonkey #25 5 years ago

    So, worst case scenario, IF MS make an integrated system, and then IF they start releasing games on HD-DVD, owners of the original systems will have to buy their games on 3 discs instead of one.

    I think I could cope.

    In fact, the same thing would happen if cross platform games get to the point of using all of a Blu-ray disc anyway. One disk on PS3, multiple discs on 360.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could cope. Although the trip from my sofa to my 360 is an awful long way to have to go 2 or 3 times per playthrough of an entire game.

  • kenty #26 5 years ago

    i agree with blender

  • Les #27 5 years ago

    "Early adopters should not moan. Production costs were too high before."

    If this really is true, which I doubt, than the main reason is likely to have been getting something/anything to market before Sony did. Nothing to do with production costs.

    Surely they'll not be so stupid to also use it for storing game data.

  • cyber_nicco #28 5 years ago

    This space reserved for later...

  • Foxclose #29 5 years ago

    I think they will say it's for movies only for a while and then quickly discard the internal DVD version (like they did with the original Xbox) and then start to use HD-DVD for gaming with newer consoles.

  • brainbird #30 5 years ago

    A hardware revision is what I was (and still am) hoping for. The first 360 model is simply too loud/hot/power consuming/heavy for me.
    If it is with a internal HD-DVD drive, even better, but it would be a mistake to use it for more than just movie playback (ie games). Not from a technical standpoint but from a marketing point of view.

  • Les #31 5 years ago

    "Yeah, I'm pretty sure I could cope. Although the trip from my sofa to my 360 is an awful long way to have to go 2 or 3 times per playthrough of an entire game."

    Not all games lend themselves to disk swapping, only the (semi) linear type like the (past) Final Fantasies or Resident Evils. But e.g. the free roaming games, like GTA, would be horrible to play on multiple disks.

  • Penguinzoot #32 5 years ago

    Yay! rumours! :-)

  • ronuds #33 5 years ago

    They'll never make games on HD-DVD. That would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who owns a 360 now (nearly 7 million of us). Plus, the HD-DVD bundled 360 is going to cost a lot more, which leads me to believe that they'll continue selling the original version and thus have 3 sku's to choose from. Even if it's cheaper to make the 360 by '07, it still won't be so cheap that they can sell it for $400 WITH hd-dvd. So, they'll need to keep the current bundles as well.

    I just wish they could do something to make the thing less fragile. I was moving the 360 last night, oh so slowly, and the thing suddenly gave me the red ring of death. I almost fainted, but the console worked again after a couple shutdowns and restarts.

  • Cyclone #34 5 years ago

    Looks like a good reason to hold off on buying a 360 for the moment. I doubt that they'll discontinue marketing the DVD based XBox 360s. They might discontinue the current Core system, and market the new version to high end gamers/home theatre enthusiasts as an "Ultra" edition, in a similar stratedgy to Sony. The move to a new fabrication process could push down the price of the Premium enough to render the Core edition obsolute.

  • SeesThroughAll #35 5 years ago

    If an internal HD-DVD drive becomes standard, it only makes sense that games will take advantage of this in the future. It's 1)inevitable and 2)a Good Thing(TM).

    It's going to be interesting seeing most of the "9Gb is enough" crowd suddenly changing their opinion, just because MS "knows best".

  • spongebob #36 5 years ago

    I'm almost certain MS will come up X360 that has internal HD-DVD and sooner or later there will be HD-DVD games as well.

    And guess what, it's a bloody good thing if it happens.

  • ronuds #37 5 years ago

    "If an internal HD-DVD drive becomes standard, it only makes sense that games will take advantage of this in the future. It's 1)inevitable and 2)a Good Thing(TM)."

    I disagree with both points.

    I agree that it is inevitable that games will most likely need to have more than 9gb's of data, but not in this generation. Xbox720 will definitely need an HD-DVD drive or whatever the hell is out by then, but not the 360. You can use Resistance for the PS3 as an example, but what exactly is that 22gb's of info. comprised of? I think a lot of it is because the PS3 is supposedly region free, thus the need to include multiple languages, etc. So, it'll be that and a lot of FMV, which I can do without. The game itself probably takes 5 gigs.

    And - it's never a good thing to alienate millions of customers by forcing them to buy something they were originally told they wouldn't have to, just to be able to continue using the product. I can tell you right now that I'd be ticked off to no end if this happened as would millions of other people. As much as I dislike Sony, a move like that may send me over to their camp.

  • PlugMonkey #38 5 years ago

    Not all games lend themselves to disk swapping, only the (semi) linear type like the (past) Final Fantasies or Resident Evils. But e.g. the free roaming games, like GTA, would be horrible to play on multiple disks.

    True, but I'm not remotely convinced that the size of the disc is currently the No. 1 limitation on the size of your free-roaming open world. Sony have yet to come close to proving that Blu-ray is in any way necessary, or even advantageous, for next gen gaming.

    If and when that happens, and I if it does happen it won't be for quite a few years yet, I for one would rather buy my HD-DVD add on later when the price has come way down than be forced to buy it now and have it sitting there not doing anything.

    Whatever happens, it's still a load of fuss over nothing.

  • Foxclose #39 5 years ago

    What I am scared of is Microsoft bringing out consoles with just a few hardware revisions and upgrades every six months.

    Imagine something like Halo 4 only working on Xbox 720/2201/3360 (?!!)

    They need to stick with a standard: otherwise it looks as if they haven't got a clue in which direction they are going in.

  • darkphoenix #40 5 years ago

    An X360 with internal HD-DVD could make me spend the 400€ M$ wants for their Premium pack.

    Hope it is true.
    And I think early-adopters need to stop being egoistical.
    I couldn't afford the console at launch, they could and while I am still stuck in past generation gaming, they have enjoying a new system for a year.
    Fine by me, stop the moaning, please.

    The HD-DVD drive is not suposed to be used for games, and I'm fine with that.
    What I don't like is the idea of having external drives to consoles...
    That is pathetic.

  • SeesThroughAll #41 5 years ago

    That's a good example of storage being put to good use: imagine how handy it would be for Bethesda if they could just ship Oblivion with all the in-game speech in many more languages, but in only one disc.

    And - it's never a good thing to alienate millions of customers by forcing them to buy something they were originally told they wouldn't have to, just to be able to continue using the product.

    No, it's not a good thing, but like you said, the only thing that prevents MS from starting to do that is user choice. Which is the great thing about competition, Sony should (which they often don't) think twice about doing that kind of crap to consumers.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 17:33

  • BadBoyBonner #42 5 years ago

    **manic_mouse**

    Microsoft will upgrade the CPU used in its Xbox 360 games console early next year, the CPU's manufacturer announced today. The new CPU will be built using technology that can reduce heat and power consumption, as well as potentially increasing speed. It will also help Microsoft cut the console's cost. The new 65nm technology is also capable of running software faster than that used in the existing Xbox 360 CPU, Chartered said. But the company did not state whether the CPU's performance when running software would be upgraded in any way to take advantage of this potential.

  • blender #43 5 years ago

    Any CPU upgrade will NOT affect the games performance. This is standardised accross all hardware revisions.

    The playstation had loads of different chips over its lifetime. But for compatibility they all did things according to the original standard.

    The only reason for new chips is manufacturing costs. You might get more favourable heat and power consumption
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 17:48

  • Steroyd #44 5 years ago

    You can use Resistance for the PS3 as an example, but what exactly is that 22gb's of info. comprised of? I think a lot of it is because the PS3 is supposedly region free, thus the need to include multiple languages, etc. So, it'll be that and a lot of FMV, which I can do without. The game itself probably takes 5 gigs.

    Actually the developers of resistance clarified what space is being used for what.

    <a href= http://blogs.ign.com/Ted-Insomniac/2006/09/07/30283/> Ted Price's Blog</a>

    Ted Price
    The second topic that has been surfacing a lot lately is our support of Blu-ray as a medium. Yes it is true - we are currently using more than 20 gigs. And yes, we do compress our level data. The fact that we store so much on disc is actually not that surprising when you look at the numbers. Consider that even with compression, each of our “levels” (or loaded areas) has more than 300 megs of unique data. And keep in mind that we’re also streaming data during level playthroughs. It doesn't take too much level data before you've gone past what can be stored on a dual-layer DVD. And between single player and multiplayer we have a lot of level data (over 40 different large loaded areas) – yes, more than will fit on a dual layer DVD.

    If you count using you're fingers and toes that's 300 * 40 = 12000 = 12Gb of level data alone (i think that exceeds a DVD) not even including the Audio for all the regions, neither does it use CGI FMV.

    Considering that Halo 3 is going back to Halo 1 it's going to be using similar large area's like Resistance it'd be interesting to see how Halo 3 pans out in that area.

    /Smokes Cigar

  • BadBoyBonner #45 5 years ago

    What about the "Holy Grail" where the blades don't have v-sync issues surely an extra mhz for that please! lol

    Will be nice if they can get it the mW heat levels down low enough for a passively cooled 360 although I would hazard that the HD an DVD drives will still be troublesome.


    If the drive is incorporated will MS make the package a Premium Deluxe xbox360? Lol
    Maybe they will chrome up the power button as well as the drive tray just so ya can tell like! Feel the quality!

    Maybe ya could go large an get 60 extra Gb's for the drive too!!
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 18:01

  • blender #46 5 years ago

    developers consume the space available. It has always been that way. Does not mean better or prettier games.

  • BadBoyBonner #47 5 years ago

    Hehehe I can remember Tony Takoushi ranting on about how the Atari 1040st had a space invader game that was going over the 512Kb and into one meg territory! lol
    Golden days....lol

    Who give's a rats if Halo3 came on two discs, one multiplayer, one single player or whatever. PC games can just about use as much as they want, an not seen that many 30 Gb installs just at the moment to be honest. Greater capacity is no a brainer when everything else in the sytem is increasing so much, but, would hazard a guess that ya can make a semi decent game with 9Gb's!

    Infact my steam account has HL1 HL2 lost Coast, Both versions of Day of Defeat loads of other cack I never touch an still only taking 8Gb's on my hardrive!
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 18:10

  • cawley1 #48 5 years ago

    Been here before with the Atari ST!
    You know your internal drive is 720K (double sided), but all the software is released on 360K (single sided) disks, hence plenty of unnecessary disk-swapping (good excuse for piracy when the game comes on one disk!).
    I think you would find that if they integrate a HD drive the new owners will be the ones who lose out (at least in the short-to-mid term) as softcos will need to ensure they cover the entire userbase.
    Mind you, in 2008/9 when you buy a HD-DVD game and have to send it to EA to get the regular DVD version then we *might* have a problem (c'mon, you would have upgraded by then?)!
    Seriously, I would be amazed if anyone pulled this kind of shit detailed above these days!!!
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 18:08

  • Skeletor #49 5 years ago

    If MS really introduces HD-DVD only games they'll have to face many pissed off customers who are going to be probably even more aggressive than the hordes of zombies in Dead Rising. I'm pretty sure they know that. However, I can also imagine that the costs of a HD-DVD drive will decline over the time to a point where it makes perfect sense to put a HD-DVD drive into the box instead of the DVD one. NOT to use it for games but furthermore to give the people HD movie playback as a bonus feature. It is also possible that the HD drive will not be as loud as the current one - reducing the rather annoying noise level of the current 360. As for the future (post 360/PS3 that is) I really don't think you'll see any disc media in 5 or ten years from now on - streaming and downloading to HD will be the next thing.
    Until then I do believe that there are smart ways to use the advantage of a medium that can hold much more than a DVD9. Imagine a futuristic Survival Horror game with a labyrinth full of screens that are playing (not simultaneously of course) films or clips in HD containing hints for the game. Or a FPS in which a level can be displayed with many different textures depending on the month and time of your system clock - playing the same level in winter would confront you with snowcovered houses and slippery streets demanding a different strategy than playing the same game in July. The question here would probably be one of costs...does it really make any sense to put that much effort into one single game? I guess from a commercial point of view it's better to do a sequel and charge full price again ;-)

  • PS3lol #50 5 years ago

    RUMOUR

  • BadBoyBonner #51 5 years ago

    Inevitable

  • justMe #52 5 years ago

    The PC has been doing "Hi-Def" for ages, PC games just recently started using DVDs.

  • Steroyd #53 5 years ago

    PC games also install onto a Hard Drive... which isn't standard in the Xbox 360.

  • justMe #54 5 years ago

    PC games run on multiple hardware configurations, resolutions and levels of detail. Developers are lazy, give them the space and they will use it.

    The most visually stunning console game of the last generation fits on a 1.5GB 8cm miniDVD disk (Metroid Prime - GC).

  • captainrentboy #55 5 years ago

    Doesn't anyone else believe that there is probably absolutely no need for Resistance to be on a Blu-Ray disc.Obviously the developers aren't going to admit it,but to me this stinks of Sony saying ''We told you Blu-Ray discs were needed for the next gen,look already one of our launch titles needs it'' From what I've seen of the Resistance videos it doesn't seem to be bringing anything that spectacular to the console gaming field.
    And another thing,what are these Blu-Ray discs going to cost?Has there been any confirmation on the RRP of games on this format?.Surely they'll cost a fair whack more than games on dvd discs.
    Edit:Just checked some screenshots of Resistance on IGN,admiteddly it looks lovely,but no more lovely than say Call of duty 3 :/
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 18:37

  • Fatnick #56 5 years ago

    "What about the "Holy Grail" where the blades don't have v-sync issues surely an extra mhz for that please! lol"

    No thanks. I'd rather have better looking games and a slightly jerky system menu than an OS that eats a significant amount of ram.

    My problem with the whole 22gb Resistance thing is i'm yet to see any reason why the thing should take up that much space - unless the space is being taken up for the sake of it.

  • doctor__no #57 5 years ago

    What HD-DVD needs is studio support. Fox/News corp, Disney/Pixar, and Sony/MGM/United Artist/Orion/Tristar/Colombia (duh) aren't going to release anything on HD-DVD. That means no Bond 007, Star Wars, Spider Man, Pirates of the Caribbean, Pixar or Disney films, etc etc etc.

    Only exclusive studio that is releasing only on HD-DVD is Universal. Recent hits are Curious George and Miami Vice.

    All this talk about HDMI, 360, etc is pointless unless there are actual movies to watch.

  • BadBoyBonner #58 5 years ago

    < laughs at Curious George and Miami Vice, now they are crying out for Hi-Def!

  • bauhaus #59 5 years ago

    Hey!! Microsoft do this, causes mild debate

    Sony do something similar, 2000 post thread of hate

    nice

  • Xerx3s #60 5 years ago

    The most visually stunning console game of the last generation fits on a 1.5GB 8cm miniDVD disk (Metroid Prime - GC).

    When did MP become the 'most visually stunning console game of the last generation'? I can name atleast 20 games that look alot better.

    As for size there is only one rule (someone mentioned it before in here) dev's are lazy and always out of time. Thus it is easy to take the short cuts where you end up with them taking up all the space you have given them and still demanding more. PC's have had better looking games for years and even the full HDD install doesn't normally get over 1,5 GB (let's say 4-5GB when it's really sloppy or large). Let's face it, PGC is the future and it doesn't take up 50 gig, unlike some CGI games.

  • Les #61 5 years ago

    "Which is the great thing about competition, Sony should (which they often don't) think twice about doing that kind of crap to consumers."

    If to you it's all about 'choice' you'd better get a PC so that you can pick every single part yourself. In my opninion, with consoles 'choice' is a very bad thing (except of course being able to choose between various manufacturers). I don't want to read system requirements or get buggy games. It's a real shame MS started this trend and Sony followed. Although I've got no clue about the actual sales figures, I wouldn't be surprised if the cheaper model would account for a marginal percentage of sales.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 20:17

  • Steroyd #62 5 years ago

    How interesting, because this is how Ted Price's blog post you quoted continues: "We also include a lot of data in the form of game movies in both HD and PAL formats, high quality audio streams for all supported languages and some of those Insomniac “extras” that our fans have come to expect. " No CGI movies then, eh?

    damn my speed reading.
    I thought cutscenes wether they were CGI or In-game were both forms of video. :/

    Doesn't deny the fact that Resistance takes up 12Gb in level data alone. :p

    Metroid is damn fine looking game but the whole map is broken up into tiny parts sometimes it takes a few seconds to load up the next room.

    Disc Space doesn't determine how good a game will look graphically that's what a CPU and GPU are for. :/

  • Les #63 5 years ago

    "developers consume the space available. It has always been that way. Does not mean better or prettier games."

    Nor does it mean the opposite. But you have to admit that at least up till the PS2-generation, developers have consistenly done good things with the added space. I think we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 20:31

  • SentientNr6 #64 5 years ago

    Don't care as long as we can chose.

  • Les #65 5 years ago

    "How interesting, because this is how Ted Price's blog post you quoted continues: "We also include a lot of data in the form of game movies in both HD and PAL formats, high quality audio streams for all supported languages and some of those Insomniac “extras” that our fans have come to expect. " No CGI movies then, eh?"

    His point was that without that stuff the game occupies more space than is available on a single dvd. Please learn to read.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 20:16

  • Scimarad #66 5 years ago

    Well I'm certainly not buying another one!

    I think anyone who says 360 games will NEVER come on HD-DVDs is suffering from a serious case of denial...

  • captainrentboy #67 5 years ago

    Well i'm in denial then.If they ever did release games on hd-dvd they'd HAVE to release the same title on multiple dvds too.If they didn't,Microsoft would have like 10-12 million(By the time the integrated drive hits) customers going mental it would be one of the biggest cons to ever hit consoles,not exactly good business,and it wouldn't exactly bode well for them in the next generation of consoles either.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 20:23

  • Les #68 5 years ago

    "Well, I wonder if the 360 could possibly take advantage of the advancements in flash memory for games."

    It probably could (as could PS3) but to have multiple storage media for games, don't know if that's such a good thing if you want to have consoles go mainstream.

    But with regards to the built-in HD-DVD player, come to think of it, it would make sense as it's probably cheaper to manufacture a 360 with an internal drive versus manufacturing a standard 360 with an external one. But from a marketing point of view it feels more akward for an internal drive not to be used for games than an external one.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 20:56

  • TripleSeven #69 5 years ago

    Buy a PS3 or wait until an internal HD-DVD drive 360 is available. As soon as that is the case please congratulate Microsoft for this very smart consumer friendly decision. It's all about choice. Right after you did that you can of course continue criticizing Sony, who are clearly the bad guys. Ridiculous.

  • Les #70 5 years ago

    @ TripleSeven

    Yeah, it would be a bit awkward if next year we'll see 360's with built-in HD-DVD drives, whether games can or can't take advantage of it. It would make the 360 seem rushed. If it only plays movies, you could ask MS the question "would it have been so bad to have waited a year or so before launching the 360, so that games could have taken advantage of it?". If it will also play games, MS will have to explain why on earth they cut the previous generation short only to release a not-yet-finished console to the poor early adopter, whom they clearly mislead when they stated that they would never use HD-DVD for 360 games. But I'm sure MS's marketing geniuses can work the latter out...
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 21:42

  • blender #71 5 years ago

    by the time hd-dvd capacity is demanded for games, the xbox 720 will be out

  • Les #72 5 years ago

    "by the time hd-dvd capacity is demanded for games, the xbox 720 will be out"

    720 in 2008?! ;-)

    Don't think capacity was ever demanded for games. But if you make it available, history tells us in general it's put to good use.

  • Mr_Brown #73 5 years ago

    I think this is good news. You can buy the HD-DVD drive seperatly anyway. If you want one with an internal HD-DVD drive, go out and buy one. If you don't like it don't. It hardly makes the Xbox 360 obsolete, as HD-DVD drive only plays HD-DVD movies...your console will still play 360 games.

    So stop complaining.

  • Geowolf #74 5 years ago

    If true this is disgusting. I'd even venture to say it's bordering on the illegal. I bought a launch 360 on the basis of Microsoft's promises (or as it would now appear if true - all out illegal con!) that the HD-DVD wouldn't be available as an internal option in the future, otherwise I would have waited. My brother just bought a 360 on the same assurances from MS with the intention of getting the external HD-DVD add-on.

    Seriously, I have to question whether the community of 360 owners shouldn't gather together and make a move for a class action should this come to fruition and plenty of public documentation exists regarding Microsoft's assurances to the contrary in order to encourage people to make early adoptions of their, now apparently, beta hardware.

    If they lied here then I have NO confidence that HD-DVD games will not appear. On the contrary, considering that Dead Rising also proved that MS has no committment to ensuring that the console remains suitable for non-HDTV adopters, I'd say it's most likely a definite goal if the internal HD-DVD appears.

    Sony have been lying about their release capabilities, at least they didn't lie to encourage us to make early purchases of hardware with the intention to alter the hardware to include a new feature after stating openly and publicly that they would not do so.
    Edited by 1 at 13/09/06 @ 23:16

  • TripleSeven #75 5 years ago

    @ Mr. Brown:

    "think this is good news. You can buy the HD-DVD drive seperatly anyway. If you want one with an internal HD-DVD drive, go out and buy one. If you don't like it don't. "

    If you already have a 360 and you would have prefered an internal HD-DVD drive then those aren't really good news. External power supply, external drives - not really attractive.

    I thinks it's unlikely, but possible to use the HD-DVD drive for games. Step by step. But yeah, the next Xbox might be released in 2 years anyway. I personally will wait quite a while before I get a 360. At least 1-2 years.
    ------------------------------------------

    "Sony have been lying about their release capabilities"

    - I don't think they have. It's down to one single component. They couldn't really know it would turn out that problematic to manufacture it. Bad luck.
    Edited by 2 at 13/09/06 @ 23:25

  • SeesThroughAll #76 5 years ago

    "I don't think they have. It's down to one single component. They couldn't really know it would turn out that problematic to manufacture it. Bad planning."

    Fixed.

  • Hughes. #77 5 years ago

    This thread all seems a little scattered and tangential, so I'll try to keep my own thoughts focussed and ignore the side issues of whether games will need bigger capacity, more choices, whose megalithic electronics and software corporation is more cuddly fun than the other person's megalithic electronics and software corporation, forcing new formats and trojan donkeys.

    If this rumour (and it is just a rumour) is true, the sales for MS's shiny new $200 external drive will evaporate like piss-steam (which I would imagine no small amount of money has been invested in already). It will also impact pre-Christmas sales for the 360, as a sniff of a better, more full featured machine in the offing next year will give potential buyers serious pause for thought.

    I don't believe for a second that MS would be stupid enough to allow developers to make HD-DVD Roms, but a small number of people here seem to think it's a good idea to allow this rumoured revision to play games off HD-DVD. The reasons why that would be suicide seem self-evident to me, but clearly a few haven't thought this through.

    If MS intends to have sold 10 million units by the end of this calendar year, that's 10 million machines that won't be capable of playing HD-DVD games. Either developers will have to produce/retailers will have to stock two different versions of each game for a single system; MS will have to go back on what they have said this week and allow the add-on drive to play HD-DVD Roms, and 10 million users will HAVE to buy them in order to play later titles; or the minute this revised machine is launched, 10 million paperweights are born. MS would be obliged to replace or upgrade every single one, or face the mother of all class action suits.

    This seems an unlikely scenario to me.

    This also seems a boring post to me, but I'm clicking the button anyway, SHAZZAM!

    Edit = Spolling
    Edited by 1 at 14/09/06 @ 00:39

  • TripleSeven #78 5 years ago

    "Bad planning"

    Oh, you know, sometimes things happen. Bad things. Let's say you decide to go swimming. You tell your 'costumers' you'll arrive at 6 pm. You take your rubber duck, your towel, your shovel and what not else; you check your car's oil, gas, the tires' pressure, you make sure your lights work and so on. You get in your car (or tricycle), get out on the road. Half way to your favourite pond you get hit by a car (not by your own, of course). Due to some health related consequences it will take you until next year to get to your pond (your duck got hurt, too). Bad luck. "Fixed".

  • Foxclose #79 5 years ago

    Blu-Ray has a faster data transfer speed than HD-DVD.

    So ... it's still advantage to Sony's console!

  • ecco #80 5 years ago

    what diff does that make? it's not like the data rate is gonna be lower than the films need.

    (and incase anyone missed it in the article "IT WONT PLAY GAMES OF A HDDVD" so it's like no issue..)
    Edited by 1 at 14/09/06 @ 02:13

  • 3william56 #81 5 years ago

    Is there anyone here who really thinks that Microsoft give a to$$ about p*ssing off existing consumers? Really?

    Folks, history tells us that if Unca Bill and his minions decide that an internal HD drive is needed to help their plans for world domination, or that games need to use HD to compete with the PS3, they'll drop the early adopters like a sloppy turd sandwich without a second thought. MS has no history of trying to get things right first time or guilt in foisting upgrades on people. For all the f**kups they've done, one think Ken K and Ko do do is to at least *try* and get it right first time - even if it means horrible PR disasters like last week.

    Consider it a hardware patch. :D

  • Fubdub #82 5 years ago

    inconvenience of multidisc releases all depend on how linar the game is, if once you've been to one area you'll never go back then it's fine, however if it's a vast free roaming world and you have to change disc each time you enter a new area it's a nightmare (a few examples from the CD era: Shenmue good, Tex Murphy - Pandora Directive: bad)
    All this is pretty well established in the "Duuuh" department.

    Now, so far all multi dvd releases has been (as far as I know) pretty linar, it has mostly been cutscenes and thus they could include gamedata on both discs, but consider if Oblivion had been multiple discs. That would have presented a problem.

    Now lets speculate: Fast forward a couple of years to Elder Scrolls 5, it's huge, it's the size of Daggerfall, perhaps even Arena (unlikely, that game had a play area the size of Iraq) the game of course is also improved visually, it all adds up to 20-25 gb. By now the standard Xbox360 comes with a built in HD-DVD. Bethesda gives MS an ultimatum, either you'll allow us to ship on HD-DVD only or this game won't come to your console. What do you think MS's reaction would be?

  • FooAtari #83 5 years ago

    This just isn't going to happen. MS are many things, but they are not stupid in a business sense.

    It would surely raise the cost of the console, throwing away half of the advantage they have over the PS3. Not to mention it would piss off current 360 owners, and potnetial owners.

    However, IF (and I'm 100% sure it isnt) it did happen I would bin it and just stick with the Wii and PC. Sony have already pissed all over their customers and if MS did this, they would be just as bad

    I just cannot see this happening... It would be the stupist move since the 32x

  • Xerx3s #84 5 years ago

    Oh, you know, sometimes things happen. Bad things.

    Not when it comes to billion € projects. You leave NOTHING to chance. Everything is calculated and thought out. This kind of thing happens purely by the thing mentioned above and bad communication.

  • Les #85 5 years ago

    "Sony have already pissed all over their customers and if MS did this, they would be just as bad"

    Sony 'pissed' over maybe 1/3 of it's POTENTIAL customers. If this all were true, which I can't believe, MS will be way more bad as they'd 'piss' over a couple of million EXISTING customers. But,

    "I just cannot see this happening... It would be the stupist move since the 32x"

    Totally agree.

  • Les #86 5 years ago

    "Not when it comes to billion € projects. You leave NOTHING to chance. Everything is calculated and thought out. This kind of thing happens purely by the thing mentioned above and bad communication."

    I think there are more billion € projects that don't meet their planning than projects that do. Examples: Vista, Space Shuttle program, every major infrastructure project, the Smart, etc. People are not good at big projects. In general either the deadline shifts or the scope is reduced. Things never go as planned.

  • EyEwitness #87 5 years ago

    Anyone who didn't see the internal drive coming needs to take thier head out of the sand. As soon as the external drive was announced it was obvious that a hardware revision with an internal drive would follow, the cost savings over an external drive make it an obvious choice. Although it would would make a bit more sense if MS waited until HD-DVD had established itself in the market first. The PS3 is going to put alot of blue-ray players into homes (like it or not MS fans), and as one of the leaders in the HD-DVD camp Microsoft are going to be forced to follow suit and start forcing HD-DVD on people.

    For those who think Microsoft wouldn't dare, I remember back to the early days of the xbox, where a massive price drop forced microsoft to hand out a load of free games to disgruntled owners as compensation. And the joke that was the limited edition crystal Xbox...

    Besides which, with the external drive MS aren't alienating any existing users. Even if games did start using HD-DVD, MS would have to make sure they worked on the exernal drives. Reminds me of the PC Engine and its CD drive, the early machine with the addon drive could play the same CD games as the later units with internal CD drives. (Yes, I know the technology is completly different, but the idea is similar).

    As for adding a HDMI port, that would be stupid now, but again other consoles have done similar things with ports, but generally thats done as a cost cutting measure. (e.g. Megadrive 2, early Playstations vs later Playstations).

  • FooAtari #88 5 years ago

    A huge price drop is one thing, but it doesn't potentially stop your existing customers playing future releases because their old console does not have the correct requirements.

    If MS do do this then the Xbox 360 is finished. PC gaming is relativly small compared to the console market because the mainstream buyer wants simplicty. You buy your game and you know its going to work. You dont have to look at the back of the box and check that your hardware measures up and dont have to worry about comptability programs.

    If MS were to do this I for one will sell mine, pick up a Wii (which im doing anyway) and upgrade the PC.

    For me it is a really dumb move, and I just can't see MS doing this. Your average joe probably doesnt even know the difference between DVD and Blu-ray. I dont belive it will help the 360 in any meaningful way. It will eaither compete with the PS3 or wont, HD-DVD or not.

  • miiiguel #89 5 years ago

    These kind of news are just like the ones that were rumouring a PSP2 3 months after PSP debuted.
    MS wont release an upgraded version of the console in terms of power capabilities to run games: what would they do if so ? give dev-kits to 3rd parties ? make these same 3rd parties 2 verisons of the same game: 1 for the 1st 500000000 users that allready gave a 360 a another to the new buyers ? it would be another system!!!! Get real! This console "thing" works beacuse it is a close system, companies can start develop a game now to be released in 2 years and still know exactly how it's gonna look in our houses!
    A version with an interbal HDDVD I gues it's possible, and can make sense. But for the ones: "I'm glad I waited!" and "Why didn't I wait", I say "How much was worth these wonderfull ludic times, playing PGR3; Oblivion; FNR3; Table Tennis; Dead Rising; Saint's Row ?".

    I can buy my console when I'm 80 years old, I bet I'll buy the latest and the greatest, compared to now...

  • miiiguel #90 5 years ago

    off-topic: I'm collecting a few "pearls" from PS fundamentalists, at date TBA will see screen next to screen if that machine is worth the price differece they all claim.
    I'll eat my hat (yes I have one).