Child welfare groups slam Rockstar for bullying game

By Tom Bramwell Published 8 August, 2005

'No worse than Just William,' yet Rockstar expects adult rating.

Various anti-bullying organisations have spoken out against Rockstar Games after learning that it plans to make schoolyard bullying the subject of a humorous action game for PS2 and Xbox.

"School bullying is a terrible problem in the UK. We are contacted by up to four children a day who want to kill themselves as a result," says Liz Carnell, director of the Bullying Online charity, which along with several other child welfare organisations has lamented the fact that an entertainment company would draw upon such a sensitive issue for cheap laughs.

Carnell also believes that it's impossible to stop this kind of content falling into the hands of those for whom it is unsuitable. "I'm sure games makers are already aware that once a title is released it's very difficult to stop it getting into the hands of young people," she told us. "I know of a case where two teenage boys stabbed another after watching a violent film. They then left the boy for dead and he was lucky to survive."

Nobody outside Rockstar has yet played the game, but the company's typical reluctance to respond and clarify the situation has put it in the spotlight once again.

Bullying Online said that it had attempted to contact Rockstar over a month ago and met with no response. After we contacted Rockstar about this last week, eventually Bullying Online did hear back and was invited to preview the game in New York.

However Rockstar's message seems confused. On the one hand it openly condemns real bullying, but on the other it uses images of teenage bullies kicking one another on the backside to promote the game. Bullying Online was told that the game was "no worse than Just William" - a book serialised on teatime television in the UK several decades ago - but Rockstar also said it expected the game to receive an adult rating. Further confounding the issue, US retailers have apparently been accepting pre-orders from children under the age of 18.

Carnell told us that more controversies were inevitable if content creators like Rockstar didn't act responsibly. "There seems to be increasing violence in films and computer games and the boundaries are being pushed back all the time. What was unacceptable for the cinema in the 1960s is now considered mainstream viewing on TV.

"At the end of the day, computer firms are in the business of making money and if they can't be sensible and police their own activities I foresee more controversies like the one over Bully. As most youngsters rely on their parents for pocket money, if the parents don't like violent games then ultimately the games industry may find it's shot itself in the foot."

At the time of publication, Rockstar had yet to issue any official statement on the subject - despite the fact that a protest group even marched on the company's Manhattan headquarters last week in an attempt to highlight the issue.

Calling themselves the "Peaceoholics", the Washington-based protest group marched on the New York office carrying signs that read "Put the cuffs on Rockstar, not youth" and "Prosecute Rockstar Games; they are felons".

If you or someone you know is troubled by bullying, the Bullying Online's website contains advice for both pupils and parents.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (107) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • kalel #1 7 years ago

    Shouldn't that be "Rockstar COUNT on adult rating..."?

  • drumbaby #2 7 years ago

    Ban this sick filth.

  • Derblington #3 7 years ago

    While I thought the GTA media faff was just rubbish as it's an adult game based on adult movies, I think Bully is somewhat bad taste. I've yet to play the game obviously, and I'm interested to see how they handle the bullying aspect of the game, I think it will up the stakes on student pranks in and out of school and people will get hurt.

    Rockstar make great games but I'd like to see them attempt one not based on contraversy.

  • chronom4n #4 7 years ago

    maybe rockstar will make a game on rape next, whothe fuck knows. i know that they want to get an adult mature rating, but this is not the way forward. well only time will tell.

  • V0oD0o #5 7 years ago

    If Rockstar manages to pull off a game that handles bullying effectively, IE, presents it in the correct light, making sure that if you *actually* play the game, you end up understanding bullying and the victims - it could be a win for anti-bullying, if kids understand what it does and how it affects people, it might make them think differently. However, the media has picked up on the "Hot Coffee" stuff and decided to drag it's stinking carcass all over everything else Rockstar does.

    One thing comes to mind though, if they get 4 kids phoning up a DAY thinking about commiting SUICIDE, then, there is something OTHER than bullying that is wrong fucked - when I was a kid, noone I knew would ever think about topping yourself over some prick in the playground.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 14:00

  • magicpocket #6 7 years ago

    Derblington wrote: Rockstar make great games but I'd like to see them attempt one not based on contraversy

    Er.. Wasn't that cowboy game about ... er.. cowboys? 'Red Dead Revolver'. Not that contraversial was it? and it still made it to #1 in the UK charts.

  • dadrester #7 7 years ago

    I wonder whether you'll be able to shag your teacher... maybe as a hidden bonus game. ;)

    /in ray winstone voice "who's the daddy...! who's the f$#king daddy!"

  • Bleedingplums #8 7 years ago

    I can't wait to get stuck into kicking smaller kids in the nuts.

    After a frustrating day at work, and a bunch of choppers cutting you up on the drive home, there could be nothing better than repeatedly swinging a heavily booted foot into the tender knackers of squealing digitised boys.

    No really.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 14:05

  • deaner #9 7 years ago

    If it's got an 18 (or even 15) certificate, it should have no impact at all on kids.

    It's these kids parents that deserve the bullying.

  • wattoo #10 7 years ago

    I feel bullied by these peaceaholic twats. If Rockstar want to make an 18 certificate game about bullies, so be it. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT if kids play it, it's the fault of parents and retailers.

  • kalel #11 7 years ago

    "Er.. Wasn't that cowboy game about ... er.. cowboys? 'Red Dead Revolver'. Not that contraversial was it? and it still made it to #1 in the UK charts. "

    Not Rockstar North IIRC. IT's them that have the contraversial specialty going.

  • Furbs #12 7 years ago

    Rockstar are meant to be working on a Western game for next gen. I rememember screenshots being posted when the 360 was revealed at E3. Dont think it had a name though.

  • Teeth #13 7 years ago

    I'm with MMUK, he is right and true, as the knights of old were before him.

  • Furbs #14 7 years ago

    Noone knows what the game is about. Maybe its about a kid who gets bullied? Thing is, if they had called it Skooldaze 3D or something, noone would be giving two shits about it at the moment. People are just reacting to the name.

  • deaner #15 7 years ago

    "Liz Carnell" should be a boss character who you defeat by rebutting her ill-founded attention-seeking poorly-conceived notions of what impact a game about bullying may actually have on schoolyard occurrences (which are manifested as some kind of left-handed sword of flimsy cardboard) with the heavy machine-gun fire of common sense.

    I work in an office. If I play the Path of Neo, does she expect me to beat up men in suits whenever my phone rings?

  • kalel #16 7 years ago

    "Noone knows what the game is about. Maybe its about a kid who gets bullied? Thing is, if they had called it Skooldaze 3D or something, noone would be giving two shits about it at the moment. People are just reacting to the name."

    No. They're reacting to the reputation of Rockstar, and also the screenshots on the website, which look pretty bad to me. It is fair to make assumptions on what this game will be like based on their blatant policy of making a certian type of game.

    Agreed, it might not be like that, but these assumptoins are not based on the name alone.

  • deaner #17 7 years ago

    <a href=http://www.rockst argames.com/bully/>Teaser Website @ Rockstar</a>

  • Freek #18 7 years ago

    All that could be cleared up if they just explained themselfs a bitt better in these situtaions.
    Instead the marketing department decides to revel in the contraversie by giving out vague replies and contradictions.
    By all means, make M rated games. It allows you to explore certain kinds of humor and take the gameplay a bitt farther then say how bullying is presented in the Simpsons. But don't allow these hyperbol reactions from variouse groups to make it to the news without your clarifications, that just cast a negative vibe over the entire industrie.

    And from the looks of those screenshots you're not picking on the innocent but rather seem to involved in some inter school gang war between variouse groups of "bullies".
    Wich is a fairly interesting idea for a game.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 14:30

  • deaner #19 7 years ago

    Like lavalant, I actually care about this game now.

    Also, I'll buy some spare copies to sell to Australians on Ebay when it inevitably gets banned there!

  • abigsmurf #20 7 years ago

    As Kalel said, if they hadn't have called this Bully, there would be much bother but at a time where "anti social behaviour" is running out of control, they really shouldn't publisize games to make them glorify yobs...

    The trouble is most people have some experience with bullying (even if it's was just minor and for a short bit). Do they really want a game like this to bring about semi-repressed/bad memories?

  • deaner #21 7 years ago

    The movie industry went through the same thing back when American politicians and heads of failing organisations found it fashionable...

    And nothing changed.

  • kalel #22 7 years ago

    I didn't say that actually abigsmurf.

  • Freek #23 7 years ago

    Preview of the game.

    Here's what it's really about:
    Bully takes place at ficticious Bullworth Academy, a corrupt and crumbling cross between a boarding school for rich kids and a reform school for delinquents. The story follows teenager Jimmy Hopkins as he tries to survive his crooked classmates and superiors, and navigate the school's tricky social hierarchy. Rockstar Vancouver, the games development studio, has created a sprawling campus environment to support a deep and humorous storyline, and an endlessly compelling and open-ended gameplay experience.

    it has nothing to do with real world bullying and suffering kids.

  • Golgo #24 7 years ago

    Better buy this before some tit bans it, then...

  • jellyhead #25 7 years ago

    So it's GTA: School Daze then.
    Fair enough, slap an 18 on it and forget about it.

  • Freek #26 7 years ago

    As a troublesome schoolboy, you’ll stand up to bullies, get picked on by teachers, play pranks on malicious kids, win or lose the girl, and ultimately learn to navigate the obstacles of the fictitious reform school, Bullworth Academy.

    If anything anti bullying groups should be happy about this game, it putts you in a position of power and take revenge on the people picking on you.

  • smelly #27 7 years ago

    No-one knows f-all about this game to make any real comments.

    To me at the moment it sounds no worse than an episode of grange hill with gripper stepson picking on roly patterson.

    Maybe it's actually a game which is against bullying?

    Mind you, even if it was as bad as people are making out it might be, how on earth is this any worse than drive by shootings, hit and runs, sleeping with prostitutes, etc etc?

  • Daryoon #28 7 years ago

    I work in an office. If I play the Path of Neo, does she expect me to beat up men in suits whenever my phone rings?

    You're an adult, it's a big diffirence. It's naive to think Rockstar aren't hoping this will be big with the kids - the "mature" rating isn't to stop them playing it, it's to make it more appealing for them! I'd bet money that at least half the GTA owners are under 18.

  • deaner #29 7 years ago

    It's not a huge difference.

    What kids violent actions have been attributed to Capcom's semi-successful kid-fighter "Rival Schools"?

    None.

    Because when it came out, getting political mileage out of videogames wasn't in.

  • Derblington #30 7 years ago

    V0oD0o - Nice generalisation. I know people who were and are bullied and there is nothing wrong with them other than that. The current one has had to change schools but it's still going on regardless. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    If the game is rated 18 then kids shouldn't play it but we all know they will. It's not a good subject matter for a game, it's not going to highlight bullying in a good way, but whether it makes it worse is yet to be seen. It's bad taste in my eyes.

  • abigsmurf #31 7 years ago

    meh I'm blind and missed the quote marks

  • deaner #32 7 years ago

    The idea that the game - if given an 18 Certificate - will reach the hands of schoolchildren, is just as much of a generalisation as that it will affect the lives of the children who would end up playing it.

    [EDIT] Clarification
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 15:20

  • Furbs #33 7 years ago

    If you work on the assumption that kids are going to play 18 cert games, you might as well ditch the certification all together. Sure, some will, but that doesnt mean I as an adult should not be able to enjoy something that isnt suitable for youngsters.

    Imagine if every film had to be suitable for all incase a kid watched a horror DVD.

  • deaner #34 7 years ago

    Right on, Furbs!

    Vive la BBFC!

  • PES_Fanboy #35 7 years ago

    You're an adult, it's a big diffirence. It's naive to think Rockstar aren't hoping this will be big with the kids - the "mature" rating isn't to stop them playing it, it's to make it more appealing for them! I'd bet money that at least half the GTA owners are under 18.

    I agree in a sense, but the fact remains, if the game gets through the BBFC and is deemed an '18', then it is down to parental supervision to ensure their classification is upheld - this is how the process works.

    The BBFC can still ban games and films - so, why are they not directly responsible for the 'outcries' that occur in the Daily Mail (before kids are found playing the game)?

    As a paranoid father of one (whom has changed school due to being bullied, and does not view films that are not a certificate 12 or over, and even then after I have watched them) - I can't see why this whole fuss kicks up.

    Chances are, the game will be pretty crap anyway, if so then I'm going to beat up my co-workers.

  • Hunam85 #36 7 years ago

    apprently kids and pocket money fuels the gaming industry

  • Floppy #37 7 years ago

    By the law of averages, naturally there will be a minority of kids who will emulate what is in a video game in the real world. But I would say that a majority of bullying will be done by kids who are already groomed into that way of life by their upbringing and social surroundings.

    I would say that more kids took up Karate in the 80s and 90s as a result of IK+ and Street Fighter, than will venture into bullying as a result of playing this game.

    There will always be dominant kids in schools. Anyone who's clearly not that way inclined tries to be one as a result of Rockstar's game will probably be kicked into touch by the ones who are destined to be them.

  • deaner #38 7 years ago

    Actually, statistics would indicate it's fuelled by men in their twenties.

  • Furbs #39 7 years ago

    I agree with PES_Fanboy :)

  • Furbs #40 7 years ago

    So its all in a name then?
    /still believes theres no such thing as bad publicity

  • deaner #41 7 years ago

    But what it comes down to is:

    So what if they're making a game which is unsuitable for children? That's why we have a ratings system. It's for grown ups to play at their own discretion.

    If kids manage to play the game despite the rating, then enforcement needs to be improved. But that's got nothing to do with the games developers.

    As a parent, I wouldn't blame Channel 4 if my kid stayed up late watching TV and saw something which might warp his mind, I'd realise what a spanner I'd been for letting the little bugger do it!

  • gaijin #42 7 years ago

    the game description quoted is singularly evasive.

    "you’ll stand up to bullies, get picked on by teachers, play pranks on malicious kids, win or lose the girl, and ultimately learn to navigate the obstacles of the fictitious reform school"

    all sounds inoffensive and Just William enough, but it rather depends on HOW you do these things, doesn't it? You "stand up to bullies" and get picked on by authority figures in GTA too, but your resistance to them usually comes down to KILLING THEM. IN THE HEAD.

  • L42yB #43 7 years ago

    Haven't we all heard this one before... "I know of a case where two teenage boys stabbed another after watching a violent film. They then left the boy for dead and he was lucky to survive."

    Well, after I heard this quote from you I wanted to go out and kill someone just to vent my anger. If I had, could other people get you banned from speaking publicly since you caused me to have this outburst? Or better yet, should you get jailed instead of me?

    People need to stop using the media and entertainment as a scapegoat and just take responsibility for their own actions. If a kid goes out and stabs someone because he saw it in a movie or a game, then that kid is not only an idiot, he's a psycho. Anyone who can be influenced so much by a movie or a game that it results in such a fundamental change to their personality, needs to get help.

    So, stop blaming the media, start looking at yourselves. We all make our own choices and we should hold ourselves responsible, regardless of outside influences. If you think that you are not responsible because you were influenced by some outside factor then you are wrong and you are weak.

    BE STRONG!!!

    STOP BLAMING MOVIES, GAMES AND MUSIC!!!

  • The-Bodybuilder #44 7 years ago

    I fully agree with these people.
    GTA was bad enough, but this? A game promoting bullies? Making a the best bully in the playground?

    This is too far.

  • The-Bodybuilder #45 7 years ago

    I'm also annoyed at those who justify this game too.
    You can't blame EVERYTHING on parents. Parents aren't omnipresent.

    Porn isn't for kids. Most parents don't want thier kids to watch porn, but I bet most of you still got your hands on it when you were young.

  • deaner #46 7 years ago

    So what's your beef with the game? You're saying it's too far because it's bad for kids. And that they'll get their hands on it despite any rating. So should it not be made? Should anything unsuitable for children not be made, ebcause they'll get their hands on it anyway?

  • Furbs #47 7 years ago

    Bodybuilder, where does it say this game promotes bullying? As for your argument about being omnipresent, you're right. Its too much for them to educate their kids to any great degree. Lets ban porn, alcohol, action and horror movies and foods with lots of sugar, because even if they arent allowed them, kids will still get hold of them. Oh ban the internet too.

  • deaner #48 7 years ago

    Too much exercise is bad for kids. Lets ban bodybuilding.

  • The-Bodybuilder #49 7 years ago

    Furbs, I'm sure your parents didn't want you to watch porn as a child.
    But I bet you still did it.

    I'm not saying it shouldn't be made (IMO, I still wouldn't want it to be made). However, my post was to respond to those who think everything will be okay if rockstar (or whoever) just slap an "18" certificate on it. Like the problem will just magically dissapear.

  • PES_Fanboy #50 7 years ago

    Let's ban the Daily Mail, its headlines (I must stress, read over someone else's shoulder - I wouldn't read that tat) make me pretty violent.

  • deaner #51 7 years ago

    If it has an 18 Rating, then the product has been deemed unsuitable for kids. If they still get their hands on it, then the fault lies with the retailers, parents and the children themselves. Same as with movies.

  • deaner #52 7 years ago

    There should be no line. As with all mediums. To reflect the content of the world, either for news, entertainment or to teach - you have to include material which some might find offensive.

    It's for the individual to evaluate what is appropriate for themselves. And for those unable to do so (children), the responsibility falls to their guardian.

  • Furbs #53 7 years ago

    Yup, no line at all. If people want to buy it, theres a demand for it, and Big Brother shouldnt stop me, as a grown adult of sound mind being allowed to play it. Video games are as valid an art media as film, so why should it be treated differently?

  • deaner #54 7 years ago

    What you should be asking, is that if a child seeks out a game (or movie, or song, or magazine) with mature content, is it the developer or parents that are at fault?

    Or is it simply that the child wanted to be exposed to mature content. In which case, there has been no inpropriaty.

    Kids have minds too.

  • Floppy #55 7 years ago

    It's established that the average age of a video gamer is around 26. Mainly as they grew up with gaming in its fledgling years, and they have jobs in order to keep up their hobby. Now, that's an average... meaning that roughly three quarters of your demographic are well over 18, and want the right to play what they want.

    I fall well into that average category, and want the right to choose what style of entertainment I see fit. Like others I was picked on in my school years... but I still wouldn't mind dealing out a bit of the same to an animated character in a game environment to vent off a bit of steam. Better I do it in a safe simulated environment than in real life.

    EU politicians... stop molly-coddling our youth. You even went too far when you put disclaimers in Superman custumes, "Does not enable you to fly".

  • gaijin #56 7 years ago

    MMUK, I take your point (I've been trying to formulate my own thoughts on this but have to try and do my real job at the same time so keep finding myself two steps behind the argument) - but there IS a subtle difference here between media. Pornographic photography can be illegal because by its nature it implies that the act occurred, ie someone did that so it could be photographed. A game doesn't imply a real action, it's a virtual recreation of an action, so more like a *drawing* of an unspeakably vile sex act. Which could still fall foul of obscenity laws, but for less objective reasons?

  • L42yB #57 7 years ago

    Is there a line, you ask? Of course there is a line. BUT, I think you'll find that everyone draws it in a different place, and that's the problem.

  • Furbs #58 7 years ago

    ManicMiner, believe it or not, sick films which have no place in society do get made. The thing is though, they arent available to the mainstream purely because noone in their right mind would want them. Its the economics of demand. Tied to that is that is the economics of morality. If Woolworths started stocking films which were morally reprehensible to too many people, the media backlash alone would mean they would soon stop. Thats why you do dont see games advocating overt racism or paedophilia in the highsteet, even though they are no doubt out there.

  • Madder-Max #59 7 years ago

    can everyone please stop spouting hot air. None of us have polayed it yet.


    http://web1.dignews.com/game.php?platform=ps2&gid=1676

    On this link, find this I did:

    "As a troublesome schoolboy, you'll laugh and cringe as you stand up to bullies, get picked on by teachers, play pranks on malicious kids, win or lose the girl, and ultimately learn to navigate the obstacles of the fictitious reform school, Bullworth Academy. "

    Now lets go over it......"stand up to bullies"..........."get picked on by teachers".....need I go on?

  • Furbs #60 7 years ago

    The KKK game was over the line, but banning it was the wrong thing to do. As I said in the comments, it was better not to grant it the dignity of having attention drawn to it. For the same reason Empire will review a film like Romper Stomper or American History X, but not touch some of the anti semetic crap thats out there - one has artistic validity and doesnt overtly encourage racial activity whilst the other does.

  • Furbs #61 7 years ago

    By the same token though, films get away with things that games cant. For instance, nudity (see the hot coffee situation), drug abuse (the shit that Narc got, and not just for being shit) compared to say Blow or BoogieNights.

    The reason games can get away with more is that it is so obviously fake. If a horror movie applied the same effects as you see in most survival horror games you'd probably see a lower rating. I believe the head of the BBFC has said as much.

    Sure, when we reach photorealism, it'll need to be looked at, but right now, even a 7 year old can spot crappy CGI and tell its fake.

  • Madder-Max #62 7 years ago

    NAH> GTA: San Andreas is a fantastic piece of adult entertainment.

  • Furbs #63 7 years ago

    This is all speculation, but I bet if GTA got withdrawn from Walmart before its release, if anything, its sales would be even higher. People would just get it from BestBuy, EB and so on. For a title that big, someone will always stock it.

    As for the arm breaking thing, if I sat down and thought about it, I could probably think of half a dozen sicker things I've seen on film. Ever see any of the 80's Ninja movies?
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 17:32

  • dadrester #64 7 years ago

    on a side note, there are certain rules about the portrayal of children in games (in the UK). it's an especially iffy subject if the game contains violence. i know that you can't simulate killing a child in a game, but I'm wondering what the law says about violence. I'd guess it is pretty strict, and i also reckon we're not the only country with these safeguards.

    in terms of content it'll be interesting to see what R* Vancouver have come up with and whether it's what we're all expecting, since if it is take two will come under even more pressure than they already are. i can't see this even getting a release if it's as bad as we're expecting. i mean foul language is probably enough to get the game an 18 cert, so we'll have to see.

    i do have to say though, judging by rockstar's current portfolio i'm inclined to agree with MMUK on this one, and rockstar are doing no one in the industry any favours.

  • struddie #65 7 years ago

    I believe in free speach and free will and all that, but I can't understand what sick fuckers want to play this sort of thing and create a market for it. I guess the losers who did the bullying at school and have nothing in their lives now will get some weird perverse kick out of it...

  • asphaltcowboy #66 7 years ago

    "Until such time as Jack Thompson weighs in on this and I am thus obligated to move to the other side of the fence, I think I agree with the outcry here..."

    I'm pretty sure he helped organise the protest outside of Take Two's offices regarding the game... so... :)

    And I thought this quote was really stupid: ""I know of a case where two teenage boys stabbed another after watching a violent film." Really? Well, I know of a case where a sheep ran over another sheep with a tractor... after seeing one of his best friends being hit my a go-kart. True story.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 17:53

  • w00t #67 7 years ago

    I just get annoyed by the 'if they see it they will do it' mentality. This will be true in some cases, but by no means even a majority.

    Was there an increase in rape in borstal schools after Scum was released?

  • grimboy #68 7 years ago

    God this game sounds awful,eh?
    When will Rockstar etc grow up?I have no interest in this at all,the game sounds boring,offensive and (to be honest) a bit dangerous...
    I sometimes think the games industry will destroy itself.....it needs to start looking at itself quite seriously,crap like this shouldn't reach the shelves,ffs where have all the good games gone,eh?
    I've always hated the idea of censorship in any way....but those jumped up assholes like the Mail WILL win if the industry keeps allowing fools to make these kind of games...i mean,where will it end?
    As i said..really not interested in this kind of game,but it will do A LOT of damage to our favourite pastime and i find it suprising how many of my fellow EG readers are defending it.

    The Games industry is going to be ripped to pieces over this,dare i say,selfish company and their quite idiotic attitude to games.We have fantastic game designers such as Lionhead,Ninty,Sega,Namco etc...then we have complete shite such as this threatening to ruin it all.....Fucking Grow Up!!!!

    There i feel better now...............

  • Freek #69 7 years ago

    "Sick fuckers?" Hello did you actaully read any of the previews posted here? Becuase if you did you'd notice the game has nothng to do with real life bullying. The player is stuck in a school full of corrupt teachers and criminals and its your job to get back at them.
    This has got nothing to do with picking on innocent kids or beating them up. The game is merely called Bully becuase it's set in a schoolyard setting.

  • TR421 #70 7 years ago

    Rockstar North does seem to revel in contreversy a bit too much.

    I don't have a problem with the GTA series as the violence is impersonal by it's nature and the violence not targeted.
    A bullying game on the other hand, if true to the subject matter, will have very personal and more malicious violence (maybe not more violent though).

    I've always been uncofortable whenever media depicts bullies though, it makes my blood boil.

  • grimboy #71 7 years ago

    "The game is merely called Bully becuase it's set in a schoolyard" ......c'mon Freek,let's be honest here...the fact that it's set in a schoolyard is enough,surely?
    Search your heart,man,you know this is wrong........

  • tenma #72 7 years ago

    I agree that R* North have several games that spur controversy but I can't say that's a bad thing at all. There are so many creative forms that have gone through periods where a certain style was seemed inappropriate. It's happened in the visual arts, it's happened in film, and in music. As a matter of fact, it's still happening in all those mediums albeit to a lesser degree. I don't agree with the bullshit that Rockstar needs to tone their things down. Videogames involve as much as a creative process as many controversial art and film pieces have.
    I think the notion that the gaming industry will do itself in is absolutely nuts. Videogames are as popular and as widely-played now more than ever and I highly doubt that a mob of Jack Thompsons will bring down the entire medium. If you want a game that's accessible to everyone and offends no one, look to Electronic Arts and the slew of other companies out there who consistenly regurgitate the same shit that they always put out years before. Rockstar is by no means the most innovative developer and anyone with one eye can see that many of their games have similar, basic, premises. But I at least respect the fact that they're willing to put games out that can stur up such emotion as evidenced by this comments thread alone.
    People *will* start treating and criticizing games as fairly as they do other mediums. It might not be for a while, but it'll happen.

  • Freek #73 7 years ago

    Search your heart? I'd rather just be reading real info wich shows that you're not the bully but the one standing up to the bullies, nothing wrong with that. No doubt it'll be M rated but NOT immoral or twisted.
    Edited by 1 at 08/08/05 @ 22:57

  • grimboy #74 7 years ago

    I hear what everyone is saying about creative freedom et al...but at the end of the day(let's talk black and white,here) kids have killed themselves over Bullying and now someone is making a videogame about the subject...that is the fact.

    Now is this right?

    Personally i don't think it is,(i can't believe i'm typing this...but i feel so strongly about it!) but everyone has an opinion and i respect what a lot of people here have said...but i think we are now entering a very dangerous era in Videogaming...titles such as Americas Top 10,50 cents upcoming game,Manhunt(?),Punisher and Bully have changed the way the media view games for the worse and I think the industry needs to calm down...

    Rockstar are obviously a talented bunch,so why don't they bring out a fantastic epic sc-fi/fantasy type of game..why do they have to sink to this contraversial crap?

    Just flick through any single format Magazine and it's all the same violent/war/antisocial garbage for the next year...i noticed one of the next big games out is by someclothes designer about Grafatti artists shooting each other..i mean,wtf is going on?

    Where's the magic gone?

  • grimboy #75 7 years ago

    That's an interesting thought,freek,so the player fights the bullies?
    Hmm...hope i haven't jumped on the bandwagon in pummelling this game,maybe i'll be proved wrong..
    I still stand by the idea of violence in a school should not be the subject of a game no matter which "side"the player is on....it's just unhealthy and doesn't do our hobby any good whatsoever.

    We'll see........

  • Bitkari #76 7 years ago

    The next whining parent that complains about the influencial violence of a beloved Rockstar title gets their face smashed in!


    etc etc. :=]

  • Vin #77 7 years ago

    The game is antagonistic shite.



  • Furbs #78 7 years ago

    Is it? Wow, when did you play it?

    Oh and grimboy, yeah you have jumped on the bandwagon as thats exactly what the games about. And people take the piss out of the Daily Express? At least they have an excuse for their ignorance in that they dont really look at games websites.
    Edited by 1 at 09/08/05 @ 01:10

  • Vin #79 7 years ago

    Eh?

  • tenma #80 7 years ago

    "kids have killed themselves over Bullying and now someone is making a videogame about the subject...that is the fact."

    Yes, and kids have killed themselves for a multitude of other reasons. People, in general, kill themselves for a multitude of reasons. I'm not saying that negates the deaths that have occurred due to depression due to bullying, but I am saying that it's impossible to shield everyone from the potential of become upset over a situation. Bullying itself stems from different causes, be it pent up anger, a feeling of mediocrity, elitism, etc. It does not stem from playing too much mortal kombat and I think it's silly that parents (and I'm not talking about you, here) still think that kids are just mindless, brainless humans that always immitate everything that they see.

    Like many, when I was in elementary school I was playing street fight, mortal kombat, watching violent movies and such and never once did I think these activities were acceptable in real life. It just comes down to the values that are instilled in your child. As long as there are parents there to educate their children, nothing else matters because the kids know and accept the fact that videogames are fiction.

    "Rockstar are obviously a talented bunch,so why don't they bring out a fantastic epic sc-fi/fantasy type of game..why do they have to sink to this contraversial crap? "

    To some people, bringing out a fantasy epic sci-fi/fantasy type of game *is* crap because that genre has been rehashed so many times that it's as enticing as the thought of eating cardboard. If a company can come out with games that can make us re-think some of the aspects of our society, I don't think that's crap at all.

    I totally understand where you're coming from with your beliefs and respect them entirely. I just think that parents need to focus on the things in life that pose more of a threat than a violent videogame in the hands of an impressionable child who would be less impressionable if they were taught some sense in the first place.

  • masterson #81 7 years ago

    The game sounds like Harry Potter without the broomsticks. Or Grange Hill.
    Both of which, amusingly enough, some nutters think should be banned.
    I really cannot understand quite what is bothering some folks about this.
    Is it the fact that it may well end up being an 18 rated game?
    Is it because it's set in a school?
    Do we really want to live in a world where all media is aimed at the lowest common denominator?
    Should we perhaps ban cars as kids under 17 have been known to steal them and have accidents?
    I could rant about this all day, but some folks here seem to have made up their minds without considering the consequences. Be careful what you wish for...

  • toy_brain #82 7 years ago

    In a way I agree with grimboy on this one - though I dont think this game should be banned, and I expect R* will (somehow) manage to present the game in a way that is much less offensive than we were expecting.

    What I do agree with is that R* really arn't helping videogames to become accepted as a valid artisic medium by relying on 'machewer' content that generates a lot of negative press and has the uninformed masses going against us.
    The videogames industry needs more Beyond Good and Evil's, more ICO's, more Shenmue's - and it needs to give them the marketing push they deseve so that the mass media is exposed to these gems rather than deliberately controversial stuff that, frankly, just makes the industry look childish.

  • smelly #83 7 years ago

    oh come off your high horses. Doesnt something as innocent as dennis the menace have bullying in it? I think it does.

    See?

    Gees. Next you will all be saying we should only be playing "barbies riding school", regardless of how old we are.

  • Lothar Hex #84 7 years ago

    As far as I am aware from nearly every preview I have seen, this game is about a kid STANDING UP to bullies and using their opwn tactics to BULLY THE BULLIES.

    But no a lot of you are just jumping to conclusions because of the title. It's no worse than the Bash Street Kids or Denni The Menace.

  • Eighthours #85 7 years ago

    If you or someone you know is troubled by bullying, the Bullying Online's website contains advice for both pupils and parents.,

    Aw, that's so nice.

    "If you've been affected by the poor acting in Eastenders tonight, please call this number."

  • struddie #86 7 years ago

    "this game is about a kid STANDING UP to bullies and using their opwn tactics to BULLY THE BULLIES. "

    That's OK then. I thought you'd have to use your intellect, cunning and superiority. But I guess most people who buy this sort of thing don't have those quallities...

    Those of you with dillusions that if it's an 18 then it's OK and kids won't play it don't understand that loads of parents buy 15/18 games for their kids anyway, they don't understand/care/realise what the rating is for.

  • Kiigan #87 7 years ago

    No one has played the game yet. So everyone should just shut the fuck up about it.

    Complaining about a game before it is even released just tells how orchestrated this whole stunt really was. It doesn't matter if Rockstar's next game is set in a convent, there'll still be villagers with pitchforks gathered outside to complain about it.

    All that aside, the "these game isn't aimed at kids" argument doesn't hold water. Games like GTA are frequently advertised in magazines with young readerships. The games clearly *are* aimed at kids. Not that (in my opinion) there's anything wrong with that - it is the parent's job to supervise what their kids do with their time and decide whether a game is appropriate or not.

  • Madder-Max #88 7 years ago

    So what are you saying Struddie? Should we ban everything then? This is ADULT entertainment and if i was a kid I would be really pissed off with people thinking I am brainless enough to go out and repeat something in a video game. How insulting is that....and combined with the patronising heavy-handed supression by many adults or parents would make me feel angry and maybe then the risk of me as a kid commiting a violent act would be increased.

    Piety and self-righteousness are easy to indulge in as they are just self-centred salves that dont really address anything. Plus, you cant be there to save every kid from ignorant parents unfortunatley, much as that would be fantastic to do. All the parents who take no notice of what there kids do should be locked up in dentention centres IMO.....but then who would step in?
    Edited by 1 at 09/08/05 @ 11:00

  • Furbs #89 7 years ago

    struddie, what games do you play then? I've got a 2:1 in Psychology and Sociology so without blowing my own trumpet, I'd say I've got intellect. Cunning, sure is debatable, as for superiority? What? Over a AI in a game? Sure, I've got that too. And yet I enjoy GTA, Resident Evil, Vampire:Bloodlines and a whole host of other seedy/violent games, whilst at the same time appreciate more mature games like AoE, RoN and so on.

    Stop making such pathetic generalisations and go back to playing inoffensive games like Tetris or Nintendogs.

  • Furbs #90 7 years ago

    Ban this sick filth!!

  • struddie #91 7 years ago

    My comment was meant with sarcasm towards the person whom I quoted. They implied that that people should stop bashing the game because you get to bully the bullies, which I my eyes makes you (the player) no better than them. Perhaps using "..." is not a very clear indication of sarcasm.

    Nowhere in my comment did I imply that I believe I am intellegent or superior, if you read it again you'll see that I said, with sarcasm, that at least you don't have to beat the bully with intellegence, cunning and superiority - over the bully.
    Edited by 2 at 09/08/05 @ 11:34

  • struddie #92 7 years ago

    "So what are you saying Struddie? Should we ban everything then? This is ADULT entertainment and if i was a kid I would be really pissed off with people thinking I am brainless enough to go out and repeat something in a video game. How insulting is that....and combined with the patronising heavy-handed supression by many adults or parents would make me feel angry and maybe then the risk of me as a kid commiting a violent act would be increased.

    Piety and self-righteousness are easy to indulge in as they are just self-centred salves that dont really address anything. Plus, you cant be there to save every kid from ignorant parents unfortunatley, much as that would be fantastic to do. All the parents who take no notice of what there kids do should be locked up in dentention centres IMO.....but then who would step in?"

    No I'm not saying that. Read my comment again.

  • Furbs #93 7 years ago

    "But I guess most people who buy this sort of thing don't have those quallities... "
    Personally it was this part I objected to. If its sarcasm then my apologies...you might want to put a ":p" after it in future.

  • Madder-Max #94 7 years ago

    Struddie: Ahem! "Those of you with dillusions that if it's an 18 then it's OK and kids won't play it don't understand that loads of parents buy 15/18 games for their kids anyway, they don't understand/care/realise what the rating is for. "

    The inference is there....and I dont think any of us here are under those delusions. (notice the spelling?) :0P
    Edited by 1 at 09/08/05 @ 11:47

  • struddie #95 7 years ago

    The comment about the certificate was aimed at the few people who have said:

    "If it's got an 18 (or even 15) certificate, it should have no impact at all on kids. "

    "If Rockstar want to make an 18 certificate game about bullies, so be it. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT if kids play it, it's the fault of parents and retailers."

    "Fair enough, slap an 18 on it and forget about it." - I know this is not directed at the fact that kids play 18 games but implies that putting an 18 cert. on it means you can forget about it.

    So it seems some are under those delusions.

    Furbs: Yes it was sarscasm and you're right, a smiley whould have been better. We don't see enough smilies these days do we? :(
    Edited by 2 at 09/08/05 @ 12:00

  • Madder-Max #96 7 years ago

    "I know this is not directed at the fact that kids play 18 games but implies that putting an 18 cert. on it means you can forget about it. "

    Ah now there's a debate: What purpose do game ratings serve? If you are under 18 then they highlight that game and make it more attractive. If you are over 18 it acts only as a salve or excuse for you to think that it has stopped kids from accessing the content.....discuss.

  • Lothar Hex #97 7 years ago

    But struddie, at the end of the day whose fault is it when the parents buy the games for their kids? The parents or the companies?

  • Floppy #98 7 years ago

    The only way to get any kind of accountability in this is to enforce an online-only purchase scheme for over 18 games, with serial number encoding on each disk. Whether that's purchasing the actual title, or to release the registration code. If every copy has to be registered to a credit or debit card, you can then isolate who bought it, giving them accountability. Trouble is, this stop off-the-shelf impulse purchases, which is where I'm sure most of the sales come from

    Doesn't stop pirate disks of course, but that's a different matter altogether.

  • grimboy #99 7 years ago

    Ok...last post from me on this one,i was bullied as a kid for one year and 25+years later i still remember it as if it was yesterday...
    My children will never be bullied,nor will they Ever bully another child,fullstop.
    Also,my children will never,ever play this game,fullstop.

    But i know their mates will....

    And that's the sad truth,talk about 18 rated games etc all you want(i enjoy em as well as the next gamer!) but it's the content we need to look at and the content in this game stinks...

    Grimboy xx

  • Furbs #100 7 years ago

    No shit grimboy, its an 18 rated game, so they shouldnt be playing it in the first place.

  • struddie #101 7 years ago

    Lothar Hex: Why are you asking me? I have not raised this question, nor commented on it.

    However, I believe that parents should be deciding responsibly what their kids should and should not play based on recomendations by ratings organisations. I am not a parent myself an don't pretend to know much about paranting. The PEGI system we have in the UK seems pretty good. However I'm not sure parents look at the symbols or understand what they mean (I work in a shop and have seen it many, many times). Shops could do more, though restricting sales when they don't have to is counter to what shops do (i.e. sell stuff).

    As I have stated before, I'm for free speech etc, and I guess in there are people willing to buy controversial games then developers will make them.

    Rockstar know full well their games are not suitable for kids but I have not seen them actively market them to them. However kids read a lot of material aimed at older people (magazines/internet) and word of mouth in the school yard probably gets the hype more than anything. Then there's media hype (for and against) that gets interest up too.

  • Furbs #102 7 years ago

    The PEGI system is irrelevant in this case since it will be an 18 rated game. You cant get any clearer than that, other than having a free Daily Mail editor with every copy to yell "Ban this sick filth" when you put the disc in.

    And I too worked in a shop when GTA first came out (the 2D version). Everyone who bought the game who looked like they may have been a parent got asked if they were aware of the content and we made it clear it wasnt for kids. We didnt have to, and we shouldnt have had to (I wasnt being paid enough to be someones moral guardian). We just did it stop parents come back to complain to us.
    Edited by 1 at 09/08/05 @ 23:32

  • Dr_Actually #103 7 years ago

    "GTA3 wasn't exactly an intelligent exploration of rising street crime, now was it? "

    I feel it was an intelligent satire on American consumer culture and media, though.

  • Madder-Max #104 7 years ago

    So...all this outrage over a game where you get to take on the bully.......hmmmmm.. How does this compare then to the content in games magazines lately with pages of advertising porn downloads for mobile phones?

  • Madder-Max #105 7 years ago

    GTA DOES sell on its satire combined with guns and stuff. Its great ADULT entertainment. San Andreas was more political satire with a fine sprinkling of consumer satire. I.E:

    The advert for diamonds where the woman complains to her bloke about him cheating on her. Bloke presents a diamond to her that has been mined by wage slaves and she suddenly forgets the problem and offers him a blowjob! The tag line is 'proving that women are materialistic and can be bought'...or similar.

    What about the DJ Sage and thestation for 'apathetic trust fund babies'.? WCTR covers American foreign policy satire and pokes fun at the conservative mindset.

    It is not all about pot and drive-bys. i am utterly convinced that people only see this because the lead character is black...

  • Furbs #106 7 years ago

    I certainly didnt buy GTA:VC for the violence. For me it was the setting, the soundtrack and the level design. I've got SA on the back of that, so again its not the violence.

    If violence or shock factor was the be all and end all, why didnt Postal 2 do better?

  • asphaltcowboy #107 7 years ago

    "If violence or shock factor was the be all and end all, why didnt Postal 2 do better?"

    Because people just don't know a classy game when they see one ;)