MS and Sony clash over TV deal

By Tom Bramwell Published 7 November, 2006

Best just let them get on with it.

Microsoft and Sony have started slagging each other off again - this time because Xbox 360 will soon play host to TV and film downloads.

Microsoft's Shane Kim told GameSpot, "This really highlights the difference between us and Sony."

"Sony has a very hardware-centric approach. You have to buy the Blu-ray drive whether you want it or not," he complained.

"The fact that we're a software company gives an enormous competitive advantage, because we can add capabilities like this. This is totally integrated seamlessly for our users."

But of course Sony has hit back, with a spokesperson telling Next-Gen.biz, "PlayStation 3's content is designed for everyone to enjoy right out of the box, no matter which configuration you purchase."

Continuing to jab Microsoft for its decision to split 360s between Core systems, which lack hard disks, and premium boxes which have them, the spokesperson said Sony "would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

"Both PlayStation 3 versions available on November 17 include hard drives for downloading content," the spokesperson concluded.

All of which raises a very important question: who would win out of a fight between Phil Harrison and Peter Moore?

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (72) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Xerx3s #1 5 years ago

    Ahh, aren't they sweet? Can I keep them?

  • Dr.Mott #2 5 years ago

    No. But I'd like to see the Phil Harrison and Peter Moore fight.

  • ProtoformX #3 5 years ago

    I think the real reason Nintendo took the "new generation" route and developed the Wii is because they couldn't be arsed/don't like getting involved in all this slagging. Thios stuff really is pointless. The vasty majority of gamers will have already made their mind up as to which next-gen console(s) they're getting and so this won't influence them one bit. The people MS and Sony need to persuade are the average Joes on the high street who aren't massively into gaming. But then because they're not seriously into it, they're not gonna be trawling the internet looking for press releases and all that. I would like one manufacturer to come up with something that would completely destroy the opposition and see what the opposition said about it. For example, and this is a hideously exaggerated example, MS said that 360s would be free.

  • Shrui #4 5 years ago

    Although the Sony marketing puke has a point about the core system nonsense I think the MS whiner's comment is more relevant.


    We've seen MS deliver the Live service for a while now and I'll bet the structure to deliver the films etc has already been in place as MS have been talking about this kind of thing for years (not necessarily on consoles).

    Sony will have the slight (some might say monopolistic) advantage that they will likely get exclusive access to all the Sony films.

    as a side note Sony say they -
    "would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

    uh huh, and this is maybe true but guys, why don't you address your treatment of European customers first before getting on your high horse there?

  • Fairlane #5 5 years ago

    I love it - keep slugging

  • SlackMaster #6 5 years ago

    "would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

    *Cough* HDMI *Cough*

  • Fairlane #7 5 years ago

    ohh and the main difference for me is _ I can get the one product now - while the other expect me to wait until march 2007 ( ......... later prob.)

  • SlackMaster #8 5 years ago

    The Core and Premium argument is a non issue anyway... lets face it, it's opened up the opertunity for people to buy the system at a lower price and then buy the HDD later if they want to go online or whatever... like I said, a non issue.
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 07:49

  • TheBard #9 5 years ago

    @Slackmaster:
    All PS3 Versions have a HDMI port now.

    Besides, if you want to use this new feature, but only have a core package, just go into a store and buy the HDD. It's really simple. But carefully neglected by Sony.

    What do you do if you buy a "core" PS3 and decide later that you want to use WiFi? Oh, yeah. Right. You can't.

  • BartonFink #10 5 years ago

    Aw ain't they cute. Oh and I reckon Moore would bitch slap Harrison.

  • peterfll #11 5 years ago

    I reckon Moore would win. He's short but a bit pumped. Harrison is just very tall and lanky.

    +1 Ledil Yep, Phil sets off the gaydar - although Mr Moore has a HUGE gay following donchaknow?
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 08:24

  • L0cky #12 5 years ago

    'it's opened up the opertunity for people to buy the system at a lower price and then buy the HDD later'

    Sony seem to be completely ignoring this point. They talk about the Core system as if you cannot upgrade it. This tactic is similar to that sheet everyone was up in arms over last month with the system comparisons.

    I'd be pretty worried if your marketing department has to resort to twisting the facts about competitors rather than using the positives of your own product.

    Reminds me of Scottish politicians!

  • Gouki #13 5 years ago

    I've got moore here on 5 - 1 anyone...?

  • manlord #14 5 years ago

    Ah... I'm sooo tired of people bitching about blu-ray. If you don't see the advantage blu-ray give GAMES, then you are so in denial. Probably a 360 owner who want to make sure he has done the right choice. And the only way to do that is to bash the competition.

  • morriss #15 5 years ago

    Someone should just say, "Your mum!" and get it over with.

  • morriss #16 5 years ago

    "Ah... I'm sooo tired of people bitching about blu-ray. If you don't see the advantage blu-ray give GAMES, then you are so in denial. Probably a 360 owner who want to make sure he has done the right choice. And the only way to do that is to bash the competition."

    I haven't even seen a game on a Blu-Ray disk yet, have you? Have you actually 'seen' the advantages? Or have you just been sold on an 'idea' of something that isn't actually implemented yet?

    Denial, you say? ;)

  • spongebob #17 5 years ago

    Good job MS! As if you couldn't download video content from the Internet to PS3. Heh. Yeah, X360 really has the advantage what with the HD and all on the Premium version of the console.

  • captainrentboy #18 5 years ago

    They're all gay.

  • spongebob #19 5 years ago

    I'd like to think that it has nothing to with their sexual preference. However, I think that most of us are more or less stupid for constantly bickering about these bloody next-gen consoles.

  • KD #20 5 years ago

    "I've seen quite a few people on the forums, teenagers mostly, who are quite happy that they bought the Core version, and are now looking forward to getting some 360 peripherals, including 20GB HDD, for Xmas."

    Similar for me but i am on the wrong side of my teens and live alone in a 3 bedroom house which the price is sky rocketing, so i'm paying a mortgage which is near crippling but all worth it when i make a 300% profit in a few years. Only bought a HDD back in june after buying my core system on day of release from my local woolies, the handy thing was i had a number of HDD's to borrow off my brother and a few mates so didnt miss out on any demo's :p
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 09:01

  • manlord #21 5 years ago

    @morris

    "Ah... I'm sooo tired of people bitching about blu-ray. If you don't see the advantage blu-ray give GAMES, then you are so in denial. Probably a 360 owner who want to make sure he has done the right choice. And the only way to do that is to bash the competition."

    I haven't even seen a game on a Blu-Ray disk yet, have you? Have you actually 'seen' the advantages? Or have you just been sold on an 'idea' of something that isn't actually implemented yet?

    Denial, you say? ;)
    -----------------

    Let me ask you something; have you heard ANY developer say "no, we're ok with dvd9, blu-ray is not needed", I sure haven't, but I've heard plenty developers say they sure will use what blu-ray can offer. And not just first party, even third party and cross platform developers. (I would link you up, but don't have the time) Sure they can always fit a game in some form or another on a dvd9, but that does mean sacrifices compared to blu-ray.

    And by the way, all games for PS3 are on blu-ray, and a game like resistance is 22 GB.
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 09:20

  • Blerk #22 5 years ago

    These guys really need to get some new material. We've heard those arguments already! Where's the originality? Where are the "your mum" jibes? What about wedgies?

  • morriss #23 5 years ago

    "Let me ask you something; have you heard ANY developer say "no, we're ok with dvd9, blu-ray is not needed", I sure haven't, but I've heard plenty developers say they sure will use what blu-ray can offer. And not just first party, even third party and cross platform developers. (I would link you up, but don't have the time) Sure they can always fit a game in some form or another on a dvd9, but that does mean sacrifices compared to blu-ray."

    Theory, theory, theory. BORING!

    I'll believe it 'when' and 'if' I see it. Like Jesus.

    :)
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 09:13

  • manlord #24 5 years ago

    So the statement that blu-ray is not good for gaming is not a theory? I belive THAT when I see it. These comments is like in the old-old computer days when people said that they never would need more that xx kb of ram. And any developer that used more than that would be accused of bad programming.

    Just like developers that use the space on blu-ray is beeing accused of now (like insomniac with resistance)
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 09:25

  • HakuSeki #25 5 years ago

    Phil is the winner
    "He's got the looks that kill!"

  • djchump #26 5 years ago

    /puts £20 down on Moore

  • McGeeza #27 5 years ago

    "Moore would totally anihilate Harrison."

    Have you seen Harrison? He's about 11 foot tall!

    Although Moore HAS got tattoos I suppose... ;)

  • rudedudejude #28 5 years ago

    'both playstation 3 versions...'

    At their nonsense price point.

    MS does things like this to give people with less income the ability to play 3rd gen games. Not everyone can afford a premuim system or a stupidly priced ps3, and believe it or not, not everyone who has a 360 has broadband or wants to go online with their console.

  • morriss #29 5 years ago

    @manlord: you're still guessing. There might be a basis for what you're saying, but atm. you don't know any better than anyone else here.

    Put it this way: Until there's a co-platform release where the PS3 version comletely pwns the 360 version and this is all down to the fact that devs have got so much extra disk space, then I'll believe it. Until then, it sounds like Sony wanting you to buy a PS3 with a Blu-Ray player in it.

    :)

  • dcangel #30 5 years ago

    Do we really need this kind of back-and-forth arguing? Seriously, they're acting like fools. @Sony+MS: It's not big, it's not clever, you're not sixteen anymore, bloody well get over it.

    @morriss: good comments. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

  • brooza #31 5 years ago

    Put it this way: Until there's a co-platform release where the PS3 version comletely pwns the 360 version and this is all down to the fact that devs have got so much extra disk space, then I'll believe it.

    Not including the PS3 launch games, which will have at least a years extra dev time

  • crazyhorse174 #32 5 years ago

    I reckon they should put Phil and Peter in the ring, Royal Rumble style with Uwe Boll for his next fight...

    ...then bomb the arena! :)

  • Xerx3s #33 5 years ago

    It is funny to see that the Pro ppl think that only disk size matters (note: i'm not saying that it doesn't). If that is the case, then why is HDDVD kicking BRD's arse in terms of quality?

    The most important innovation is compression. I.e. in 2000 we could do a 2:1 compression with the standards then. Now we can do stuff like 5:1 and more with better image quality.

    I think that the DVD will become too small in 2 or 3 years. However, this doesn't stop games from fitting on 2 disc's, will also affect the size of PS3 multi platform games and by that time the XB3 will be announced.

    And you seem to forget that developers always nag for more space while usually making exactly the same game as they would with half the space. Things will just be less optimised so that they can release it earlier.

  • Aretak #34 5 years ago

    "Have you seen Harrison? He's about 11 foot tall!"

    But Peter Moore is actually Satan himself, so I don't think being tall would help t'other guy. ;-)

    EEEEEEEEEEEVIL!

  • Royal Fool #35 5 years ago

    Haha, it's great to see them have a little private PR war.

  • the_dudefather #36 5 years ago

    he looks like ming the merciless

  • AcidSnake #37 5 years ago

    No, no...Uwe Boll should be the ref...
    Ruling moves illegal....
    Like Harrison's blu-ray-bomb
    And Moore's 3-6-0....(like a 619 but with girly screaming ionvolved)

  • KillahSouljah #38 5 years ago

    Harrison would stamp on Moore's little wrinkly arse.

    Moore the Microsoft Whore!

  • Psychotext #39 5 years ago

    Anyone got any vital statistics on the two? I want to see a clean fight... =)

  • The_Programmer #40 5 years ago

    Are Sony capable of running any type of decent service? I mean they have Movie & Music companies and still let Apple shaft them.

    As for the stupid Blu-ray makes better games comment. Blu-ray is a storage medium and doesn't make better games. According to Sony, and Microsoft, discs will be irrelevant in the near future as everything will be downloaded.

  • Skooch #41 5 years ago

    "Sony has a very hardware-centric approach. You have to buy the Blu-ray drive whether you want it or not," he complained.

    Now, now Tom - don't be using your journalistic influences to sway readers, the above doesn't sound like a complaint, rather a statement of fact.

    Spokesperson said Sony "would only segregate or shut out our consumers from our entertainment experience because they couldn't afford the top of the line system."
    Fixed.

  • Neu Razz #42 5 years ago

    I think someone forgot to tell Sony htat the only reason why both systems come with a hard is because a hard drive is required for PS3 games, not because their being nice or anything. For instance Ridge Racer 7 PS3 installs to 5GB on the PS3 hard drive.

    Which leads to the question what exactly is the benefit of Blu Ray if PS3 games require Hard Disc space?

    I'm not toally blind, I understand that more game content is a good thing when compared to less. Then again, crap game + loads of content due to size of blu ray = big crap game.

  • revlob #43 5 years ago

    Reggie would take both their names.

  • peterfll #44 5 years ago

    Is true. Reggie could just sit on both of them.

  • AcidSnake #45 5 years ago

    @Neu Razz:
    Actually the 5 GB installation is optional...
    It can also quite happily run from the disk...
    Although I agree that blu-ray adds very little to the gameplay experience...

  • crazyhorse174 #46 5 years ago

    To hell with "Halo Wars"...they should make a game called "Console Wars"...an RTS based on the "Next-Gen Console War", where everyone is actually confused as to what "Next-Gen" actually means...

    You could have Phil and Peter as "Heroes" for each team, with armies of Fanboys fighting each other over various terrain.

    Also included are the Bill (Gates) and Ken (Kuturagi) heroes!

    (No, not Bill and Ted...although that does bring up some possibilities for a movie spin-off...just imagine it...Bill and Kens Bogus Journeys...)
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 12:06

  • SimonM7 #47 5 years ago

    Moore'd win of course. Without rumble I reckon Harrison wouldn't realise he was being hit.

  • Pooley #48 5 years ago

    I think that Sony should have the lead here, what with all their Entertainment divisions. It will be easier for Sony to populate their Sony Store with films and TV. But Msoft could negate this with selected deals with the appropriate studios.

    It's gonna it a bit silly though to have some films on your Xbox, and some on your PS3. Bit like having a VHS and Betamax...

    Wow, good analogy.

    Reggie FTW!

  • WhyMeeeeee #49 5 years ago

    Continuing to jab Microsoft for its decision to split 360s between Core systems, which lack hard disks, and premium boxes which have them, the spokesperson said Sony "would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

    so sony are not selling a 20gb and a 60gb version now?

  • Weezer #50 5 years ago

    The planet's overheating, millions of people live on the breadline, children run around with guns in the Middle East and Africa, babies starve and die every minute, rare wildlife edges closer to extinction...

    Thank God these guys have got their priorities straight.



    Oh, hold on...

  • Garulon #51 5 years ago

    "It will be easier for Sony to populate their Sony Store with films and TV. "

    But then they'll cannibalize their BluRay sales. They HAVE to make BluRay popular with the PS3, if you're downloading movies in HD rather than coming back from the shops clutching a BluRay disc how's the PS3 going to cost-reduce?

  • ManicDrunkMonk #52 5 years ago

    Ha!

    @Protoform

    You give Nintendo too much credit. All the firms involved in the console business are led by a bunch of cheerleaders. All Nintendo have done is drop out of the hardware race because they want to make profits at both ends (hardware & software). Which kind of begs the question, why don't people get pissed off at Ninty for over-pricing consoles?

    /ducks bile and runs

  • belziah #53 5 years ago

    @Garulon

    Between Sony's TV, movie and music catalogue, you're trying to say that MS will have the upper hand because of BluRay, meanwhile ignoring MS heavy involvment in HD-DVD.

    HD-DVD only has one voice at the moment and its Microsoft's.

    We all know that all platform holders are moving towards a dlc heavy distribution of content and when you own that content surely that makes it easier.

    That said, I still dont think think this generation of consoles are ready for downloadable movies. Even using vc1, how many SD movies are you gonna get on a 13gig hdd.

    @WhyMeeeeeeee

    Yeah, man. And ting. Innit doe.

  • AcidSnake #54 5 years ago

    @manic:
    Well Nintendo have only a games division, see?
    Sony and MS have various sources of income...
    If Nintendo don't make a profit with hardware and software where would they?

    Besides, at the time of the wii pricepoint announcement I remember lots of pissed of people...

  • crazyhorse174 #55 5 years ago

    @belziah

    Microsoft are not the only company gunning for HD-DVD...Intel are heavily involved, as are Toshiba, Sanyo and NEC.

    To be honest, the Blu-Ray backers list is a bit longer and includes Apple (anything to get one over on Microsoft, eh?).

    But there are a lot of big guns involved either way. Microsoft and Intel are both massive company's in their own right. I think one way that the whole equation could be swayed would be if IBM jumped in on HD-DVD's side.

  • SeesThroughAll #56 5 years ago

    "would never segregate or shut out any of our consumers from our entertainment experience because they didn't buy the top of the line system."

    Can I connect my PSP wirelessly to the PS3 unless I buy the "top of the line" system? No? Oh.

    F U

  • SeesThroughAll #57 5 years ago

    To be honest, the Blu-Ray backers list is a bit longer and includes Apple (anything to get one over on Microsoft, eh?).

    That's because Blu-Ray is superior as a storage medium, nothing else. If anyone chose sides reactively, it was MS.

  • Psychotext #58 5 years ago

    I don't think it really makes much difference to MS if HD-DVD takes off or not... they're just supporting it to try and screw Sony. (Which is probably a good idea). List of backers isn't really important either... most studios will end up supporting both formats except probably Sony, but it's obvious why they wont.

  • urban #59 5 years ago

    hahha microsoft claim to be adding a blu ray drive if people show interest, ballocks M$

  • crazyhorse174 #60 5 years ago

    "That's because Blu-Ray is superior as a storage medium, nothing else. If anyone chose sides reactively, it was MS."

    Read this article [link url=http://news.com.com/FAQ+HD+DVD+vs.+Blu-ray/21 00-1041_3-5886956.html
    ]http://ne ws.com.com/FAQ+HD+DVD+vs.+Blu-r...[/link]

    If I'm reading this article correctly - and assuming that its not biased - Blu-Ray is not superior to HD-DVD, it just has a larger capacity and is more expensive to produce.
    Edited by 2 at 07/11/06 @ 14:13

  • holy_bazooka #61 5 years ago

    "Sony has a very hardware-centric approach."

    core of their problems me thinks.

    i have'nt yet RTFA or comments but this generation this seems to be the factor.
    In a way hardware has lost its uniqueness, it all seems the same. What matters is how u combine the hardware and software into one single, solid, well integrated package. Sony's approach of throwing everything and the kitchen sink smacks of a company totally unable to deal with the future, a future where hardware just aint that important.
    microsoft are primarily a software company and it show in their approach(xbox live, xna, live arcade) but still something is missing.
    then theres nintendo, which, like anather succesfull company in recent time, Apple, always had a integrated approach. Improvements that utilize both innovation in hardware(wiimote) and software which is their traditional strong suite. Most well suited to take on the future and survive.
    Just my two cents.


    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 14:25

  • KD #62 5 years ago

    What format is the pc getting first? and thats what i think the answer will be

  • sanctusmortis #63 5 years ago

    They should do a three-way dance with Uwe Boll for Postal.

    Anyway, as has already been mentioned, it's just catty. MS showing off their online service, Sony touting a non-issue again. It's the US elections, with less pageboy controversy and God. Though, I suppose there's plenty of Deus Ex Machina.

    MS have an easy retort in "but more people can afford a premium 360 than a low-end PS3", anyhow.

  • crazyhorse174 #64 5 years ago

    "What format is the pc getting first? and thats what i think the answer will be"

    Theres a couple of Sony Vaio's that have Blu-Ray writable drives just now, but they cost a fortune.

    I'm thinking that to keep the price of the machine down, most PC's will have an HD-DVD drive.

    EDIT: What I mean by most PC's is, most PC's that manufacturers decided to fit with a HD drive (i.e either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray)
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 14:29

  • SeesThroughAll #65 5 years ago

    it just has a larger capacity

    It JUST has a larger capacity? That's I'm talking about when I refer to it as a storage medium. I don't care how much it costs to produce. Economics and monopolies delay technology.

  • Machetazo #66 5 years ago

    So, Sony are trying to attack someone with claims of segregation? Hahaha!
    At least with a Core Xbox 360, right now, anyone can FULLY UPGRADE to the full functionality; and if they don't want a next-gen media player, they either a) don't have to have one - Try to counter that, Sony!
    Or b) Can get selected content of their choice, that might incidentally inspire a future HD player purchase?

  • crazyhorse174 #67 5 years ago

    @seesthroughall

    I fail to see how Blur-Ray having a higher capacity makes it a superior medium than HD-DVD? That doesn't make it superior...it just means it can hold more data.

    Comparing this to the old video wars of the 80's, VHS wasn't the best medium at the time - in fact Betamax was far superior. VHS machines were just cheaper to produce, as was the tapes themselves.

    So you see, your argument for "more being superior" doesn't cut it...there are many different factors invloved here. HD-DVD will be cheaper to produce compared to Blu-Ray and also has the backing of Microsoft who - like it or not - are one of the biggest companies in the world, if not THE biggest company in the worl - and have considerable clout in the IT world.

    And just to show I'm no Microsoft fanboy - is it not a well known fact that Mac OS is far better when compared to Windows OS, yet Microsoft is the one raking in the money?

    Next time your going to have an argument, at least make sure that your arguement is coherent, rather than along the lines of "my dads bigger than your dad"...

    On you go back to suckle on Sony's teat...
    Edited by 2 at 07/11/06 @ 14:52

  • SeesThroughAll #68 5 years ago

    So you see, your argument for "more being superior" doesn't cut it...there are many different factors invloved here.

    Heheheh. That Blu-Ray actually is potentially better is not an argument, it's a fact. That alone, in fact, was my whole point.

    Here, let me try to explain something:

    Storage is NOT the same as video. Storage. Data. General applications. Not necessarily video. Higher capacity is better, if there is more space, yes?

    HD-DVD will be cheaper to produce compared to Blu-Ray and also has the backing of Microsoft who - like it or not - are one of the biggest companies in the world, if not THE biggest company in the worl - and have considerable clout in the IT world.

    Argument of authority. Says a lot about your logic :)

    Here let me put this in your own words ;)
    Next time your going to have an argument, at least make sure that your arguement is coherent, rather than along the lines of "my dads bigger than your dad"...

    The cost argument is of less importance, as production costs for BD can also quickly drop over time.

    And besides, do you think that's a good thing? Do you know how delayed magnetic storage is, thanks to IBM and partners?

    On you go back to suckle on Sony's teat...

    Very civilized, yes sir. Not only your post shows your bias: Pro-Microsoft and Anti-Sony, it also shows your maturity, or rather lack of.
    Edited by 4 at 07/11/06 @ 15:22

  • rudedudejude #69 5 years ago

    The simple fact of this issue is (And i have seen this happen many times in shops) Average Joe goes to buy a HD TV, looks a the nice label 'oooooooh I want one.' Buys Hd tv.

    What do i need to watch HD? Ahhhh there's a player there called a HD DVD, so I'll get one of those.

    90% of people I see in store put HD and HD together, and don't even know/care about blu ray. The normal population go by the name, it really is a simple as that.
    Edited by 1 at 07/11/06 @ 15:21

  • OhWiseOne #70 5 years ago

    Sony are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO running scared. LOL, they are dead meat.




















    Losers

  • OhWiseOne #71 5 years ago

    Just realised, there are a bunch of Sony Staff writing on these forums, boys, go and get lives, and polish your CVs while you are at it.








    Losers

  • some1 #72 5 years ago

    @ManicDrunkMonk

    Last week this guy (or gal?) was all over ninty for their pricing.

  • Lother #73 5 years ago

    About the Mac OS, you need to fork over shitloads of cash to own a Mac, a PC is cheaper. For a pc either you get linux(or some other opensource) or windows. If you want up to date drivers and support for the latest games, you install windows.

  • smelly #74 5 years ago

    So.. erm.. i may be stupid here.. but dont i buy a games machine for like.. the games?