Bungie to become independent

By Tom Bramwell Published 5 October, 2007

Microsoft to continue publishing.

Bungie is to become an independent company again, Microsoft confirmed today.

The platform holder said it will retain an equity interest in the Kirkland, Washington-based developer.

It will also continue to publish games based on the Microsoft-owned Halo IP and other future properties developed by Bungie.

Shane Kim, corporate vice president of Microsoft Game Studios, said the company was "supporting Bungie's desire to return to its independent roots".

However, he added, Microsoft "will continue to invest in our Halo entertainment property with Bungie and other partners, such as Peter Jackson, on a new interactive series set in the Halo universe".

"We look forward to great success with Bungie as our long-term relationship continues to evolve through Halo-related titles and new IP created by Bungie," he added.

Bungie studio head Harold Ryan described the move as "an exciting evolution" of the relationship with Microsoft.

"We will continue to develop with our primary focus on Microsoft’s platforms; we greatly value our mutually prosperous relationship with our publisher, Microsoft Game Studios, and we look forward to continuing that affiliation through Halo and beyond," he said.

Bungie's most recent game, Halo 3, achieved USD 300 million in sales in its first week, Microsoft said yesterday.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (90) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • krudster #1 4 years ago

    Isn't it fun confirming these things?

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #2 4 years ago

    Blimey.

  • paul_haine #3 4 years ago

    Does this mean we'll be seeing Halo DS in the future?

  • GuiltySpark #4 4 years ago

    Ohhh, didn't actually think this would happen when I heard the rumours.

    Ah well, at least Microsoft still have Halo.

  • Eighthours #5 4 years ago

    I'm in a 900 post comments thread!

    This is about as good as people could hope for, really. Clearly Bungie didn't enjoy all the pressure of the past few years, and wanted to take a step back. Getting to keep their offices and all the fancy crap is rather nice. Plus they'll still have access to MS's amazing testing centre and all that lark. MS needs Bungie more than the other way around, and both should do okay out of the deal.

  • peteb #6 4 years ago

    it strikes me as nothing much has really changed? do they want to develop games for other consoles, if not was this just to get the pressure off their backs and let them have their freedom?

  • rhinoxious #7 4 years ago

    Well blow me down, i thought that rumor was horse-shit!

    I'd love to know the details of why and any ongoing contractural agreements?

    Can bungie work on other platforms?
    Are they tied to Microsoft Games Studios as a publisher?
    How much stock does MS own exactly?

    Need more info!

  • Monkey #8 4 years ago

    There's no smoke without fire, so with MS and Bungie not saying anything there must have been something on fire somewhere....

    It's one of those days!
    :)

  • Blerk #9 4 years ago

    !

  • Lukus #10 4 years ago

    They're probably sick to death of having done almost nothing but Halo for the last 7 years.

  • onyxbox #11 4 years ago

    well, blow me, I was right!

    I thought there was a reason for plastering Bungie all over evey screen in Halo 3.

  • peteb #12 4 years ago

    maybe they aren't happy that MS will start whoring Halo now or something?

  • rhinoxious #13 4 years ago

    Horse's mouth . . .

    [link url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topne ws&cid=12834
    ]http://ww w.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?...[/link]

  • FlamingCarrot #14 4 years ago

    So whats their first PS3 game then?

  • [maven] #15 4 years ago

    Eighthours: I agree.

    /hopes for bungie going back to their Mac roots :)

  • Hunam #16 4 years ago

    Hello shitstorm, im Hunam, you coming round soon?

  • Wash #17 4 years ago

    How does a company you own become an independant company again? buying out themselves?

    M$ purchased them, funded them till now.

    I guess if halo wasnt such a cash cow, M$ wouldnt bend over backwards to accomdate the dev team. Still.

    Multiplatform bungie titles? all of the success of a M$ funded studio.

    Interesting.

  • Hunam #18 4 years ago

    Edit: i was wrong there folks!
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 16:26

  • Wayne #19 4 years ago

    Halo on PS3?

  • FlamingCarrot #20 4 years ago

    I still remember the Halo ad's with the Geforce 2 prior to the MS buyout....They made some cracking PC games and hopefully will again.

  • Hunam #21 4 years ago

    MORE ONI GAMES PLEASE

  • rhinoxious #22 4 years ago

    Like the man says, you won't notice any difference in the immediate future.

    Bungie have being doing Halo (and Marathon) for so long though I'm not sure what to expect of them next.

    Can't imagine we'll see anything soon though, first big non-halo game Xmas 2009?

  • ccfb #23 4 years ago

    "Halo on PS3?"

    Read much? MS own the Halo brand. No chance of Sony getting it.

  • SIDEARM #24 4 years ago

    Honestly they have a good thing going over there I would not expect to see any Bungie games on a Sony platform anytime in this console cycle. PC and MAC certainly, DS and Wii maybe.

  • hula hoops #25 4 years ago

    I think all this means is that Bungie will have more negotiating power with Microsoft with regards to future titles. Rather than being treated as some employees of Microsoft, Bungie will have more power to ask for bigger payment, bigger bonuses etc.

    I don't think they will start making games for other platforms anytime soon. What will happen would be they will start to expand and make other games rather than just Halo but still for Microsoft.

    It is really not in Bungie's interests to bite the hand that feed them for years.

  • Killerbee #26 4 years ago

    Gosh!

    I suppose Microsoft couldn't really do anything else but let them go - if they'd held on to the company against the wishes of the key people, chances are the lot of them would just have left and set up on their own, leaving Microsoft with, well, not much really.

    As it is, Microsoft have retained a bit of goodwill and a decent working relationship with the company.

    It'd be nice to see a bit more focus coming back onto the PC now, rather than Xbox exclusives.

  • Arcadiian #27 4 years ago

    Doesn't the story say something about Microsoft having equity in them, and still publishing Bungie games, etc ?

    Would this mean they'd become a bit like Rare were for Nintendo ? Or will they go all the way and develop games for other consoles (aside from Halo, of course) ?

  • andromeda #28 4 years ago

    Bungielol

  • barnard666 #29 4 years ago

    Thats plain weird, perhaps MS didnt actually believe enough in what ever Bungie plan to do for their next step, and because of that MS decided they didnt really want to fund it.

  • zooms #30 4 years ago

    What does it all mean? I'm scared. Hold me.

  • Guv #31 4 years ago

    I'd like to see something non-halo from them, but I guess that might be wishful thinking. Anyways, good news I say.

  • Mr_Bogus #32 4 years ago

    So, who'll be next? Rare? Lionhead? (Who else does MS still own?)
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 16:40

  • JetSetWilly #33 4 years ago

    I'm just looking forward to how Joystiq report this after they threw all their weight behind it being BS!

  • Kiigan #34 4 years ago

    I'm not sure I'd be interested in Bungie with Microsofts vast amount of money behind them. Would Halo have been as good as it was without Microsoft? Being independent has advantages and disadvantages.

  • Psychotext #35 4 years ago

    Win-Win. Creative independence + MS backing still. Should be good.

  • JavaJawaUK #36 4 years ago

    Interesting. The community gets Bungie, both Microsoft and Bungie get a heap of cash, we still get Halo IP games/stuff. Best deal for the long-term really.

  • LeD #37 4 years ago

    MS owns the Halo brand.
    MS and Bungie to continue to collaborate on Halo projects like the Peter Jackson stuff.
    MS to continue publishing Bungie games.
    Bungie to continue making games for MGS.

    The only thing that changes is they're not a PART of MGS/Microsoft anymore.

  • Machiavellian #38 4 years ago

    Still looks like a win win for both companies. MS is still the publishers so they will get first rights to any new games Bungie wants to deliever. Just like Gears of War, you will probably not see that game go to the PS3 and you can believe that MS having a long term publishing contract with Bungie, you will not see any PS3 games coming out of Bungie anytime soon.

    I would love to see how the contract broke down because I do not see MS giving anything away unless they will benefit more from the transaction. To buy back that majority stake from MS must have cost a lot of ends or the terms of the agreement was pretty sweet for MS that they felt they didn't need to own Bungie to continue to reap the benefits of their efforts.

  • Steroyd #39 4 years ago

    Bloody hell what a day this has turned out.

  • kangarootoo #40 4 years ago

    My initial thought was "they might have bought themselves back out", but actually I'm not so sure.

    As has been suggested on this thread, core Bungie may simply have not wanted to work on Halo anymore, MS own the IP, so they can go their seperate ways without anyone really losing out.

    MS still own a share stake in Bungie too as noted, so they aren't losing their cash as such (though Halo3 has probably made back a fair chunk of the initial investment).

    Anyone know what MS originally paid for Bungie all those years ago?

  • oceanmotion #41 4 years ago

    Xbox 360 and Nintendo DS for Bungie now.

  • morriss #42 4 years ago

    well, well, well

  • deaner #43 4 years ago

    "We're too successful to be giving our profits you now, Bill. And we've got developing for Windows/XBox pretty much nailed. So, ya know... bigger fish! But you can still publish! How's that sound?!"

    "So we're the EA to your Free Radical? I feel so cheap! And you'll probably bog off to Ubi when your next best piece of IP comes along!"

    "Err... it's not you it's me? Umm... I love you but aren't IN love with you?"

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #44 4 years ago

    "we will continue to invest in our 'Halo' entertainment property with Bungie and other partners" - Shane Kim

    'our entertainment property' means MGS still owns Halo. Not that you'd want to play it on a machine with its analogue sticks in the wrong place, anyway :)

    Hopefully that'll sort out MGS's rumoured cashflow problems.

  • Machiavellian #45 4 years ago

    Personally, I am thinking that a select bunch within Bungie wanted to go back to doing PC/MAC games. Being MS console dev house especially since Bungie was a MAC/PC dev house probably rubbed some people in the wrong way. I actually do not believe the next game from Bungie will be a console game but instead a MAC/PC game.

  • deaner #46 4 years ago

    Nobody wants to do Mac games.

  • kangarootoo #47 4 years ago

    John Carmack does.

  • belziah #48 4 years ago

    Well, FUCK A DUCK!

    The sky just fell down. First, the cheap PS3 and now this. I need a holiday, my deductive powers are failing me.

    Apologies to all I mocked.

  • Rirekon #49 4 years ago

    Good move Bungie, all the best to you!

  • Machiavellian #50 4 years ago

    The more and more I look at this deal, the more it doesn't look like a split at all but instead a nice cash grab for the devs. Basically MS created stock for Bungie and gave them independence to make their own games. MS will continue to publish their games and thus reap the rewards. Bungie and MS are still tied to the hip and their may be incentives years later to totally break away but right now, I doubt anyone will see any change with this deal.

  • Xerx3s #51 4 years ago

    Hmmm, so wait, let me get this right. Bungie becomes independent but MS has exclusive rights to publish everything and is owner of everything they made and will make in the future.

    How is that independence?

  • Triggerhappytel #52 4 years ago

    I don't really see how much has changed for either.

    If Microsoft Game Studios are still the publishing partner for Bungie then they will only be doing games for the 360 or PC (particularly if it's anything Halo-related).

    I suppose this means MS have to contract Bungie out to create games for them, rather than just telling them what to do...?!

  • gerald #53 4 years ago

    The interesting question: Who will make the next Halo "entertainment property"?

  • Steroyd #54 4 years ago

    Xerx3s not quite, MS have first refusal to whatever Bungie make, so if MS decide not to publish Bungie can go elsewhere for a publisher.

  • TONYgr #55 4 years ago

    nice move bungie!GO BUNGIE GO BUNGIE GO!

  • LeD #56 4 years ago

    Don't forget Bungie said many times that they needed to expand as a company in order to be able to continue to work on Halo related games AND on new IPs. It might not have been possible from within MGS.

  • Crea #57 4 years ago

    I think this is wise by Microsoft, if the guys at Bungie express a desire to go independent again and exercise a bit of creative freedom instead of constantly pumping out Halo games, then MS would be nuts to refuse. Refusal would just run the risk of a Bungie exodus (they'd find jobs at any number of MS competitors) and killing the golden goose.

    This way they get to keep the association, hopefully in a form that allows the guys at Bungie the greatest possible job satisfaction, which is great for their ability to create the best games, for themselves and for MS.

    I imagine Vivendi/Blizzard run some of the same risks with the behemoth WoW upkeep effort.
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 18:10

  • drumbaby #58 4 years ago

    Just call it 'Schmalo' and release it on everything else.

  • Gulag #59 4 years ago

    With any luck we'll see a new Marathon game. The Bungie dudes have an almost painful need to tell that story. Just see the final-super-secret ending of Halo 3 to see what I mean...

  • Calgon #60 4 years ago

    I dont think MGS get the credit they deserve... Bungie werent half as big before they worked with MS and never would have been, Bizarre too owe alot of their success in recent years to their partnership with MGS and TeamNinja too perhaps. Thats the only thing I'll say with the "MS need Bungie more than Bungie need MS"(yes they make the games but is it always that simple? why do some publishers produce better quality games than others? even working with the very same devs? because some publishers know what they are doing make better decisions than others)... do they even think before they come up with this crap? So many partnerships with MS have result in bigger audiences and sales than they could have hoped for otherwise, why spin that? give credit where credit is due. Also Bungie would be going nowhere if MS really didnt want them to so be reasonable theres more to this than meets the eye me thinks, big changes at MGS recently when you think about it.

    Other than that I dont know what to say, doesnt seem wise for either party, I hope theres a good reason behind the Bizarre and Bungie stories. A look at this year at 360s portfolio shows someone at MS knows what they're doing and the quality of 1stparty software speaks for itself. They do need some 1st party dev teams now though IMO.
    Edited by 5 at 05/10/07 @ 18:33

  • Machiavellian #61 4 years ago

    Bungie keeps any new IP, it's just that with MS being the publisher, the games will only go to MS platforms. If you noticed at Bungie website they are now hiring because I am sure they will need a bigger team to Handle Halo and the other IP they are looking to do.

  • onyxbox #62 4 years ago

    this means only one thing...

    HALO DS is coming!

    :-)

  • Skywise #63 4 years ago

    Why do Bizarre Creations and Bungie jump the ship while it still seems afloat? :S

  • Calgon #64 4 years ago

    Skywise thats whats interesting, if anything things are looking stronger than ever at MGS - all the games are selling well and getting critical acclaim all over the show. It seems like either a shift in strategy or they have something big planned perhaps? Maybe its an Anti-"MS Troll " measure, where great games will no longer be picked at for their association with MS(which said trolls will try and hide at all cost).
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 18:54

  • J.C #65 4 years ago

    You know i would love to see something new from bungie, i think this is a good thing.

  • mike_mgoblue #66 4 years ago

    This official confirmation proves that very little has changed.

    Consider these facts:

    (1) Although Microsoft allowed Bungie to become an Independent Developer, we now know that Microsoft is still the largest minority shareholder in Bungie.

    This means that Microsoft still plays a very key role in the life of Bungie.

    (2) The Development company, Bungie, makes it 100% clear that Microsoft Game Studios is still the Publisher of games created by Bungie.

    (3) Bungie will remain in the state of Washington, very close to Microsoft. Obviously this is because the two will still be working as closely as ever.

    (4) Microsoft still owns the Intellectual Property rights to the Halo franchise. Halo 3 may be the last game in the Halo trilogy with the current story, but that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be other Halo games with other characters. Perhaps there might even be other games with Master Chief, but not necessarily fighting the Covenant.

    (5) Bungie wants to work on "New" Intellectual Properties...From Microsoft's point of view that probably was a financial risk--a poor decision, because the constant release of Halo games is a guaranteed success. Allowing Bungie to control their own fate like this makes it so the financial risk is removed, and it actually allows an opportunity for growth and improved performance to occur.

    (6) Some of the members of Bungie have actually become part of Microsoft Game Studios. So, when Microsoft Game Studios eventually publishes the next Halo game, it will still have members of the original Bungie team as the lead designers.

    This new business agreement makes it so Bungie can own the stuff they create from this point forward, and potentially have significantly greater financial earnings, since they will own all of the property. That form of potential for greater earnings will motivate the staff of Bungie to make sure and do the best job possible on the work they are doing. Then, once the work is complete Microsoft will benefit because Xbox 360 and Games for Windows are the platforms that will receive the content.

    I honestly think this was an excellent business move, considering that Bungie was so insistent on creating new content. In reality, very little has changed because the Xbox 360 is still the primary development platform...the only thing that has changed is who will own the new Intellectual Properties that Bungie creates.
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 19:29

  • adamamosa #67 4 years ago

    It seems Microsoft still have a financial stake in the company so they will still have some control, albeit slightly limited. Although they are not saying how much that stake is. I remember Nintendo only owned 70% of rare before MS bought them.

  • adamamosa #68 4 years ago

    . . . Also I think that now Gears and Forza are to be the new Halo and Gotham

  • Calgon #69 4 years ago

    I still think it looks like MS letting these two go has left a gap, or in other words they 'could' be making space for something...

  • Arcadiian #70 4 years ago

    @ adamamosa.

    I think Nintendo owned 49% of Rare, not 70%. So when Microsoft bought the other 51%, Nintendo basically had no choice but to sell up.

  • AOFanboi #71 4 years ago

    And EA does (though just via an embedded emulator).

    And Aspyr does, and have done for years (ports of e.g. Halo - ironically, Civ IV and AoE III).

    And Blizzard do (like World of Warcraft - and if you are addicted to that you don't really buy many more games anyway.

  • DanWhitehead #72 4 years ago

    Hmmm, so wait, let me get this right. Bungie becomes independent but MS has exclusive rights to publish everything and is owner of everything they made and will make in the future.

    How is that independence?

    It's obviously more of a financial move than a creative move. This way Bungie gets to retain all the benefits of being under Microsoft's wing, but legally they're independent - and there are obvious stock market and dividend benefits to being a distinct business entity rather than a sub-division of a vast corporation.

  • yagisencho #73 4 years ago

    Just wanted to drop the trivia bomb and mention that Bungie's studio is within walking distance of my house. They built it inside the remains of an long-vacated hardware store.

    The studio, not my house.

    /Didactic follow-ups for the win!

  • Xerx3s #74 4 years ago

    Xerx3s not quite, MS have first refusal to whatever Bungie make, so if MS decide not to publish Bungie can go elsewhere for a publisher.

    No, the pr release clearly mentions that MS will have publishing rights and separately mentions that MS will have IP on all future releases. Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it reads like; 'even if we don't publish it, we still own it'.

  • Xerx3s #75 4 years ago

    Anyway, if this is what it takes to make more new IP's that are as fantastic as H3, I'm waving bungie fanboy flags all the way. Go bungie!

    /waves flag

  • penhalion #76 4 years ago

    Glad to know I called it pretty much correctl in that microsoft would continue to own the Halo franchise and so didn't really give a hoot what Bungie went off and did with themselves

    I think that Bungie have shot themselves in the foot as nothing they put out in future is going to be equal to Halo and without the Microsoft money behind them anymore, they are going to end up chasin their past success into the grave.

  • chischis #77 4 years ago

    Now then Bungie: an Oni sequel, please. Konoko kicking arse for great justice!

  • Skywise #78 4 years ago

    @Calgon: it seems unlikely that MS let them go to avoid anti-MS sentiment. MS must be really pleased to be popular for once and I don't think they wanted to let that go :)

    I expect some windows games now from Bungie, without the 3 year wait that plagued the Halo games, so as a pc gamer I'm very happy with this news.

    For the next gen consoles this must be great news for PS3 and Wii. I wouldn't expect Bungie to develop for those but if Bungie games are coming to pc that leaves one huge reason less to buy a 360 at the current price. Though Halo 2 on xbox LAN-party was nice enough for me to shell out for a 360 when it ever gets at budget price :D

    I'm curious what Bungie is going to make next to the Halo series,
    did anyone play the old Bungie games and were they as nice as Halo?

  • Sl1pstream #79 4 years ago

    "They made some cracking PC games and hopefully will again"

    No, they didn't. They made mac games. Then Microsoft bought them, Halo became a pc title and THEN Microsoft decided it would become an Xbox title.

  • BonzoBanana #80 4 years ago

    Can't help wondering if Microsoft is thinking of pulling out of consoles. They were making a huge loss on consoles anyway and then the reliability fiasco came about costing them a billion plus. Ever since they launched xbox their share price and profits have been well down. The 360 has totally failed in japan so has no chance of being a world console. Their application and operating system business is constantly bailing out the console side but what is the point? The long term viewpoint is nothing will change. They'll still have to fight at a huge loss for market share in the console sector. The Nintendo wii is market leader with a console that is seriously cheap to make and little better than the gamecube it replaced technically.

    Maybe Bungie going independent is simply positioning itself as a multiformat software company. Giving bungie independence certainly weakens Microsoft's control of them.

    As much as I love my 360 when it works from a business point of view the 360 and original xbox has been a total disaster for Microsoft. Its just a huge money pit that will keep taking money long into the future.

    The 360 is allied to the hd-dvd format and thats dead in the water so even there the 360 has failed.

    In reality to the amount of money Microsoft has poured into the xbox brand even the dreamcast is a massive success.

    Lastly the least reliable piece of consumer electronics ever with some people on upto 12 replacement 360s is not going to be the basis of a set top box in every home.

    It seems more likely now that a company with a proven set top box history like rupert murdoch's sky will have greater success in this regard by increasing the spec to include reasonable game performance and allowing at first both satellite and broadband connectivity before finally switching over to an all broadband design when broadband speeds are upto speed.

    Lastly the 360 has a reputation for having the most violent of games compared to other consoles. Thats great for the average game player but not so good as the basis for a home set top box for the whole family.

    Is there anyone out there that actually thinks Microsoft can make a profit on the 360 especially when wii and ps3 have a free internet connection service for games?

  • BonzoBanana #81 4 years ago

    Also the 360 reliability is linked to use. I.e. the more you use it the more likely it will fail. So by constantly supplying new games to play a far greater number of xboxs will fail within the 3 years. The only successful cure for these older 360s seems to be replacement rather than repair. The end result is selling software for the 360 actually costs Microsoft a lot of money in repair bills. It may end up that the vast majority of 90nm process motherboards will fail and need to be replaced by cool running 65nm 360s.

    I think a lot of us with early 360s are expecting to get them replaced by later 360s at no cost to ourselves when they go faulty. Those costs are huge and will wipe out any profit for Microsoft's xbox division in 2008 and 2009. 2009 is the end of the life cycle of the 360 and the console will be seriously cheap at retail at that point. I think we can safely say no profit for 360 ever.

  • mcmonkeyplc #82 4 years ago

    The seventh column is rising!

    Sorry to those I said were dick heads...apart from eccose.

  • Calgon #83 4 years ago

    BonzoBanana you talk shit, spin everything all you like MS deserve a bit of credit for sticking with it and actually doing some good for the industry to get support all Sony have been about is themselves... pure marketing got them where they are... MS' knowlege of hardware, software and games dev got them where they are and things have changed for the better. Theyve unseated Sony and Nintendo seem to have benifited the most so far. As a gamer MS are far more convincing with what they can deliver, developers do better work with them too IMO. 2008 might even see some profit for the Xbox division... all you have is bullcrap and FUD about every 90nm 360 failing? pah shows the lack of understanding of the problem and the technology in general. We'll see is all Im saying about the profit, one thing is for sure, MS have gained a ton of ground on many levels and from some angles(leading Digital Distributor in the US last year... for film and TV content) theyve already impressed in the position theve put themselves in. To say it looks like they will be pulling out says you only hope that to be the case... a stronger case would be to say that of Sony who are really hurting now more than they ever have been since joining with their PS1, but a) Im not as petty or selfish enough to want that to happen b) Its not likely either.

    Even if it were true(which is just not likely, any unbiased person with common sense can see that) theres no other choice than the 360 this gen IMO, the games, features and the online service are all unmatched, I cant beleive you tried to spin that one into something bad! It shouldnt matter in the end, you're a gamer not shareholder/financially involved, when you get the best this gen, why bother about next gen?(I wouldnt like it because they do seem to offer alot more of what I like and competition is good for everyone but if they did Id probably just play PC or Nintendo unless Sony started to impress me, in which case there be no problems picking their console next gen) Seems like Sony Fanboys would rather talk about what might be(only seeing what they want to too) than getting stuck into the present. I say MS have shown they learn much faster than Sony does(and they already knew more about the technical side of games to begin with which helped, but any new player will have lots to learn with a market thats constantly changing), they are already ahead of the game now by the looks of things, so the future could easily be the opposite of the doom and gloom haters are hoping for.
    Edited by 5 at 06/10/07 @ 18:41

  • BonzoBanana #84 4 years ago

    Well calgon you show yourself to be a true 360 fanboy. If you read my comments again you will realise I was suggesting that microsoft might be reconsidering the long term future of 360. Apart from the apalling reliability there is every reason for gamers to stick with the 360 but what is Microsoft's motivation? All they do is lose a massive amount of money on it.

    Microsoft are not your friends they are a business and their xbox division is dead weight to them. They will of course be positive outwardly for as long as possible but both xbox and 360 have failed for them dramatically. Will they go for third time lucky or pull the plug?

    Lets not forget that cumulatively now they must have lost about 2 billion on the 360 project and that may end up being something like 3-4 billion at the end of its life when perhaps 20-25 million consoles have been sold. Thats a lot of money to go down the pan. That could have fueled some strategic acquisitions in the media sector that could have born far greater fruit and would have been ongoing assetts.

    Microsoft aren't interested in happy gamers they are interested in profits in the short term and the long term. They sacrificed profits in the short term because they felt the xbox brand could be profitable in the long term and the basis of a home set top box but this is looking less likely day by day.

    Anyway I really don't want to be seen as mr anti-360 I was just suggesting that its not doing a lot for Microsoft as a corporation.

  • Calgon #85 4 years ago

    BonzoBanana you are showing you only read what you want to... I said it shouldnt matter TO GAMERS. You were probably one of the FUD trolls of last gen, you dont understand as much as you think you do about it. 2billion loss on the 360 project already? I think not, listen shut up pulling figures out of your ass, thats what I meant by talking shit.

    I dont care about MS as a corporation and none of the big three are our friends so I cant see why you even pointed that out(which is more truestworthy? Nintendo > MS > Sony in that order but none are perfect so just play the games and stop pretending that not the case). MS were forcasting profit in that division for next year(you're not an analist theres too much you dont know about where losses have been made and where profits can and will be made and how much... 1 billion has been set aside for 360 which is yet to be spent, The entertainment division figures I presume you are getting that idea from*although I cant say I remember it being as high as a billion* is much more than 360)... the only way is up now not down like you're suggesting... software sales has always been where the money is and MS are out performing the competition there.

    They are going nowhere this gen is my point and you are right you shouldnt be a mascot for any of the big three, or campaign/troll for them against their competitors... you should just choose the one who offers more of what you want. This generation its 360 all the way, next gen might be a different story but stop trying to divert from whats important... it changes nothing this gen sorry.

    Next gen is a whole new ballgame look at the difference to Sony's position. As I say spin that one... you can't without sounding like a troll. You prefer to speculate doom and gloom for years down the line, I prefer to look at the present gen and enjoy it with the best console(which I will do as soon as I own a 360... which I dont yet). MS will be happy as soon as they start making some good profits... and that is going to happen, the extra heatsink works for a start and the kind of loses you're talking of just arent likely they might even have some of the 1 billion left in the end but we dont know yet so why pretend we do? Wait and see, play your games and stop spreading FUD.

    lol this is you>>> "gonna cost 10 billion and the dreamcast blabla... buy a PS3...got blu-ray..."
    Edited by 6 at 07/10/07 @ 04:51

  • Skywise #86 4 years ago

    Looks like Calgon shows his true colours there :-(

    How would you explain the 1.5 billion dollar loss MS posted on their entertainment division for the booking year 2007? I think the 360 must be losing money for them up until now, and probably next year again too.

    The e.400 pricetag of the PS3 must force them into yet another pricedrop I think.
    I would be surprised if the 360 Halo 3 pack didn't drop to e.330 this side of Christmas for once. Like Sony I expect them to lose lots of money on the hardware short term.
    Wii still makes a profit on the hardware, but with these price drops all around it surely it must follow with the discounts?

    So as a gamer this is a great time for all :D

  • Calgon #87 4 years ago

    Looks like Skywise is showing his true colours(red like Mario?)

    As I say the entertainment division is more than 360, 360 hardware isnt sold at a loss probably a small profit which will increase with the switch to 65nm, so the longer they leave the price cut the better for them but they are still in a strong position for playing the price cut card.

    Look at what I wrote gamers who are focussing too much on profits of any of the big three need to ask themselves... why should I? Unless there was any chance of 360 or PS3 being another Dreamcast and that is just pure FUD for those who try it... its not going to deter anyone with common sense which why most trolls do it - they are the macots of Sony and Nintendo but who do they think will even fall for that propaganda? All it does is annoy people who use EG to discuss relevant matters rather than argue back and forth with fanboys, which 9 times out of 10 theyd be better off talking to themselves, since neither side listen or value other opinions to their own.

    Great time for gamers indeed, so lets cut the FUD crap and enjoy the game instead of pretending we all have a crystal ball.
    Edited by 3 at 07/10/07 @ 14:58

  • Skywise #88 4 years ago

    Well I only have a Wii and a pc atm but that doesn't make me think Nintendo are perfect, I do think they are in the best position to win this generation. Until MS sorts out the hardware problems (disc scratching) and Sony starts using the Playstation 2 card (unlike they are doing now with unacceptable backwards compatibility) I think it should be plain sailing for Nintendo.

    The Wii online functions are hugely disappointing however and even make me want the Wii-mania to stop. I want to have a nice online console in the race too :)
    Also two of my favourite upcoming 3rd party games (rock band and soul calibur 4) are still 360/PS3 only.

    @Calgon: FUD all you want, I don't get paid for it so I'll stop trying to get some sense into you :)
    Edited by 1 at 07/10/07 @ 23:40

  • Lov3 #89 4 years ago

    @Skywise: Probably you're aware of this, but Namco are developing a separate Soul Caliber game for the Wii, designed from the ground up with the console in mind.

    I'm getting flashback to Soul Caliber on the Dreamcast and the fishing rod controller... except it's not a fun feature any more, the game is designed around it. Awesome.

    EDIT: and I agree about the online thing :(. Someone should develop some kind of Wii hamachi with prevalent online ID's, that would be sweet.
    Edited by 1 at 07/10/07 @ 21:44

  • Skywise #90 4 years ago

    @Lov3: I always wondered how Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast played with that fishing rod controller? Did it really work or was it too much of a one-time gimmick? Anyway it seemed like good fun ^^

    The SC game for the Wii doesn't look like much, but I have faith it will turn out better than the Tekken spinoff with Nina. If if could only have an online versus mode too it would rule so much :)