Iwata: We "do not want online games" Comments by Kristan Reed

Ahab. I agree that the quoted remark is daft, and its rubish game to use as a comparison. But then its a soundbite in an article thats quoting an internet source (uncredited) that had some highlights of a speech. Id like to read the full speech, im sure you could find some better examples. Id imagine he had more than one example, yet this is the one that anti-Nintendo people are quoting. Just like when they said that advances in hardware werent the most imprtant factor, and it was interpretated by some that it ment they wernt bothered about it, and the next machine would be no better than a cube in power.

To me Nintendo dont need to prove themselves, im still having fun with there products and ill stop when the fun does. Though I do dispise their disgraceful lack of presance in Europe.

kevf123, i agree with most of what your saying apart from ....

"I'm just getting a bit tired of being told by Nintendo that the features and games I'd like to see aren't worth bothering with, but I think it's more Iwata's attitude."

I dont think its Nintendos attitude at all, but people misquoting or misinterprating soundbites from lengthy speeches. Theres a lot of chinese whispers going on here.

kevf123, its not a simple 'web hosting' agreement. Its effectively a dedicated private network. MS themselves have said that a sizeable amount of the $2bn XBox project was for XBox Live. You seem to think that the marketing, hardware and roll out costs, launch parties, press events, beta costs, don't exist or are negligible - I'd quite happily bet that they have nowhere near recouped the costs of XBox live.

The hardware may be cheap but someone paid for it to be designed, tested, put through a marketing department, had the packaging designed, paid for press photos, focus groups etc etc. These things are not cheap even if the crappy headset at the end of it is.

If Nintendo and Sony gave their BB adapter away for free then I would use it, however charging money for these accessories will always alienate the mass market and hold back any progress. If the new Nintendo console doesn't have built-in ethernet then I will be very disappointed with their attitude.

I bet that they haven't even covered the press and marketing costs yet. £40 million does not go a long way.

lol.

I can see what you are saying. The running costs are not much and the income almost certainly covers this. But I still think that the initial start up costs were pretty huge.

/waits for prize

Personally I like the free model of net gaming where you only have to buy the game and find servers to play on yourself. I don't really want to get into a subscription no matter how good the experience is. If console games could be hosted by the general public using PCs then I think this is the cheapest model for publishers to adopt. However it would take balls, and I doubt any of these control-freak console manufacturers would ever allow that...

MS is loosing money in each XBox sold. They are trying to hit down the loss with software. I'm pretty sure you are wrong, and that they are still loosing money with XBLive, but even if they aren't, the XBox project hasn't turned into profit just yet.
The XBox 1, was a foot on the door. Best hardware, ethernet card included, best online service. They plan on starting the profit on XBox Next, or even later generations. They know that for now they need to invest, and that they'll only collect the fruits of their seeds in 5 or 6 years. But it's a foot on the door. They are analysing the topbox market. Sony as well. And believe it or not, online networks is the future. Everything will be connected. Look at what Sony is trying to do with the Cell, for example, where your TV, fridge and PS3 can have a cell processor in a shared processing network. Now, Sony is feeling the online water, seeing how things work, what they can or can't do,testing technologies, learning with it's mistakes. MS, likewise, is working and improvind on a service, that'll be available from the get go to their next console. What is Nintendo doing? Comparing Tennis games, and telling us online tennis games aren't popular - so they won't support it for now.

When online gets popular, Nintendo will still be trying to figure out how to connect 56k modems. When CDs got popular (because they could carry way more data than a 32 meg cartidge), Nintendo stuburnly kept using their trusty old cartidges. Excelent loading times, crappy music, textures, and anything that could make the game shine. We got this amazing Zelda world, with bland featureless low res textures. What if they used a CD?
Sure, they recovered from their mistakes and developed their own CD for their next generation console, but that generation was doomed to cartidges and games without textures, movies and a midi soundtrack.
Have you ever wondered why MS and Sony are both supporting their consoles as DDV players? It'd come cheaper to them not to. Nintendo doesn't care for it. "It's a game console, it's a game console." But personally, I saved 100 Euros on buying a DVD player for my room, when I got my XBox.
MS And Sony, both understand that having a multifunctional device is the future of consoles. They can't just play games, they also need to record movies, play DVDs, surf the internet, etc. Look at Sony's latest investment in the PS2. They called it PSX, and it's a PS2 with hard-drive, and alot of set top boxes features. Why is Sony even bothering trying to market such device (which will not meet high demand for now)? The reason is because they are already getting ready for PS3. They are studying the market. Seeing what people want, and waht people don't want. What works, and what's not a good idea.

Same with online. When online starts rolling, when broadband starts getting cheaper and more available, Sony, and MS will already know how to do, and simply have to worry on expanding their servers. They're already used to the water temperature. Nintendo will try to jump late into the pool, and body splash the water...

Here is my prediction. Nintendo's future online service will be as bad, as DC online or PS2 online. This isn't bad now, because companies are still learning with their mistakes. But when in the future they already know what to expect and what to do, it'll suck ass. Why is MS service way better than Sony? MS has a way greater experience with servers, networking, etc. You can see their experience in their product. I don't doubt, Sony will greatly inprove their online offering in the future too. They learn fast. They didn't even release the 56k adapter in the Europe, to stick to the best service, since they know, that they should be aiming for the future (where 56k will be lesser and lesser - and broadband more broad), not worrying about getting a full hand of guys, who won't enjoy the game anyway because of the unplayable lag.

I just laugh at Nintendo. They are old and decaying. Sony and MS are dancing the new console dance. Nintendo is swinging to the old console tunes. I mean, I guess they realise that they are making mistakes in trying to do things their way. This year's E3, we didn't see any push on the GC-GBA connection abilities, which shows that they learned that it was a stupid idea - either because they listened to anyone with a mouth and a brain betwen their ears, or most likely, because it bunked at retail.

I predict that they'll either soon change course to acomodate us costumers, or they'll become 3rd party. I have a little hope for them to get back on track, because they did learn that people wanted another OoT, not a cellshaded WindWaker (by the numbers, since OoT sold like 10 times more than the WW). But they might only think on the day of today, with their numbers.
What I mean with this, is that they won't realise they should start investing in the online now, to have a good service in the future until is too late, and they once again will be left out in the cold.

Tweakmonkey, the genious on Live's servers, is that there is no cheating what so ever. I'm a PC online gamer. Good games, get ruined fast by cheaters and hackers. To my mind comes Counter Strike, Diablo 2 in special. Both great games, over-ran by the hackers who made the game unplayable for others.
XBox Live, has a tight grip on the consoles that connect. There is NO action replays, and no gamesharks for the Xbox, which means hacking it without a modchip is impossible. And the Xbox Live network, checks for a chip in your console, and bans you forever if it finds one.

What we have here, is a cheating fre eenvironment. Sure, there will allways be assholes that drive the wrong way on the track, team killers, and droppers. But there are plenty of assholes in the world. Nothing that MS can do, short of stamping a number in their shaved forehead, and shoot their balls out in case they are naughty. But we do have an environment way better than PC or PS2 online, because the XBox Live is unhackable. With PCs, hacks would easly surface, chipped and hacked versions of the games would be easly ran on such servers, and non-cheaters would stop playing the game 1 month after release.

PS2 online also has this problem for now, because they have action replays and gamesharks for sale, which change directly memory of the PS2. So, the server can allways cheat.

Personally, that's why I only play XBox online right now. Yes, you can find droppers, you can find assholes who shouit and swear, but you know that in the game, all they can do, is drop and run to their momma.

But if you want to play XBox online games without paying for a subscription, you can. You just need a PC, and a gateway software called XBConnect. Any game that works online, and any game which has system link ability can be played in XBConnect. There is only one problem. There are cheaters in there. Many cheaters. But it's free, so take your pick.

I like to feel I have a somewhat leveled playing field. I pick XBox Live.

haha CyberClaw, you really dont like Nintendo at all do you. How can you say that the music on N64 titles was "crappy". Whilst sony were slapping licensed trakcs on cds, Nintendo were creating original scores that react to the user and enviroment (mario64s tune fading in and out of a lulaby when you walk really slowly was blissfull). The arival of cd hailed the arival of shit games pumped full to the brim with shity unresponsive music and seeing budgets shift from developing games to developing FMV sequences. These days what happens, well ps2 games fill dvds, cube games are often less than a cd in size, you telling me all those ps2 games have better textures and sound? Its not about file size but the quality of the code.

You talk of the future wonder box. The console/dvd player/hd recorder/dvdr/music player. Most people wont buy one, as the price will be massive, will it have the features I want, will it be upgradable? If its not upgradable then im not going to shell out £800+ for a new machine. I (andI thnk most people) would rather buy them seperatly, so each can be upgraded at its own pace. Thats the difference between a games console and a pc you know ;)

With regards to getting your toe in the water you are right, but in an industry where staff move, and information can be bought, I doubt when Nintendo go into online play theyll really be that far behind, they can see what sony and microsoft are doing and what works. Whilst experience with the technology will be lacking, knowledge of its uses is there for everyone to see. Hire your self a team of network specialists and away you go.

Nintendo arnt dying, theyre a profitable company with a large global presense. Its seems its much easier to bash them hiding behind misqouted soundbites these days than except that pretty much everything the craft oozes quality, I dont understand it myself.

Gaming Dave, yea, some midis were good, but you'll never see a "One Winged Angel" style of music in a N64 game. It is a FF7 musik, in case you didn't know. It is Sephiroth's theme, with vocals behind, singing in Latin. Amazong shivering music. Or you couldn't ear Leona singing in Final Fatnasy 8, with an amazing voice, or even, the ultra cool FMV intro, with the amazing chilling soundtrack behind.
Want more examples? How about Metal Gear Solid. The game blowed me away. Every single line of dialogue was spoken. The game was pure genious back then.

GamingDave, information can be bought, staff moves arround, but experience is something that'll allways be required. MS researched alot to make their XBox controler. But market experience taught them the xontroler could be better, and they released the controler S. The structure required internally to make an online service work, isn't just a mind set, the big guns need to get it in their mind they need to do it, and slowly tries what works best for their system. I'm not seeing a GameCube owner shelving out 80 euros for an HDD, but that works for Sony. I'm not seeing a GameCube owner shelving out 50 Euros every year to lpay online, but that works for MS. So, the information they can adquire, is their oponents strategy, and it's what works best for them. Nintendo needs to learn on their own, what's the best strategy. They can't copy MS or Sony's moves. They can't buy the experience and the user feedback specific to their case. That's why they'll be lagging behind the online console war.

"most customers do not wish to pay the extra money for connection to the Internet, and for some customers, connection procedures to the Internet are still not easy."

You know, his argument is really based on people not wanting to pay the extra dosh, and/or not having the technical proficiency to get their consoles online.

Which I think is absolutely correct. Yes, there is *A* market for online, but it's not *THE* market, and it never will be.

CyberClaw, your comparison to Colour TV is flawed, as a Colour TV has all the functionality of a B/W TV but with something more added to it. Online isn't like that - it will (I hope) never replace singleplayer, or even four-mates-on-the-couch-multiplayer.

If Nintendo do not think that pursuing online for the time being, why are they putting their heads in the sand? Especially since Nintendo's games also have started to take on a younger age group, which will have even less possibility of influencing whether or not to get broadband, I think they may well be right, for now.

This is a conscious decision from them, not just ignoring everything. Even Sony don't really bother with online - they know it's for the hardcore only. It's just that Microsoft stepped into the market and started screaming so loud about it that everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon, though it's not really ready to take off yet, economics-wise.

Microsoft needed something to set them part from Sony when they broke into the market, Live! was it. It'll likely continue to grow, but very slowly, for each generation. But just because it serves MS's purpose doesn't mean it serves Ninty's or Sony's.

Another example on the musik N64 kuality, you are right, it's the coding that matters. But coding can only do so much in the N64, while the same ammount of coding can do way more in the PSX. Want an example? I once had a DOS strip poker game, which when it started, had a gril saying some rubish phrase through the PC speaker. Now, I had heard all kinds of fucked up atempts to get a person talking through a speaker. I must say, when I heard that sound effect by my speaker, I looked to check if my sound blaster system was turned off (it was during a night, so I didn't want it to make any noise). Props and kudos for the amazing acomplishment, really. But, just because they are able to get Virtua Racing running in the Mega Drive, doesn't mean the Saturn version isn't better. Metal Gear Solid had better textures than any N64 game. It's an example that came to my mind. Or Tekken 3. 2 examples right there.
And although you don't seem to like FMVs, I must say that a good FMV, is a master piece that compliments the game. I'm referring to Square's FMVs. How many of you didn't let your jaw drop when we saw Sephiroth in the middle of the fire in Nibbleam, or when we saw the introductional fight betwen Squal and the white trenchcoat blonde dude, to the sound of Liberti Fatali?

Khab, Nintendo just realised that their games are bought more by adults. Otherwise how can you explain the darker more adult Zelda? OoT sold like 10 times what WW sold. Now, if you ask me, I see online as the split screen of the future. It has everything the split screen has, but it supports more players, and everyone has a full screen. I'm not saying they'll stop making split screen in their games. I'm saying, that the feature will be droped in favor of single screen multiplayer.

2 examples come to my mind. RS3, and SC PT, both have online MP, and no split screen mode what so ever.

haha from completely disagreing with you I agree with your last point a lot.

Yeah some ps1 games did have excellent soundtracks, dialogue was very nice in MGS. But so many had poor soundtracks and FMV did get in the way. Mind I remeber the first time I heard a voice in a game, was round a mates house, called James, and we loaded up A View To A Kill on the speccy (or was it a c64) and it said (albeit in a very digitsed voice) "Welcome James". Fantastic. Sorry got sidetracked there. Streaming music can be used very well, GTA wouldnt be the same with midi music instead of the radio stations. But in a lot of games reaction to the player in music can add so much, and with the advances in sound cards theres no reason it cant all be done with programmed tracks, vocals can be recorded seperately and layered over the top.

FMV definately has its place, the dream sequence near the start of Shenmue when you see the guy thats just killed your father doing some slow moves against a jet black backdrop was the last time my jaw was literaly on the floor from a game. I dropped my smoke, id dropped the pad and i hadnt realised. But thats not to say cartridge games didnt have good cut scenes.

Your right aswell about companies as a whole needing to understand concepts and technologies, and not just a few tech heads in an off-site office. But I think the technology aspect is actualy the easiest part to buy in from elsewhere. The developing of the comunity online, and the features is the biggest challenge. I was involved in the development of the online content for MSR on the dc (amongst others and the dreamarena asa whole), stuff was pulled due to varied restrictions, money and time being the biggest factors. But there were some excellent features planned and the final result I thought was impressive for the time and the technology. There wernt many people at Sega who really understood the full workings of the networks, I certainly didnt, and they were managed along with the hosting (including PSO if I remeber rightly) by a 3rd party. I think the ideas are easy to work out especialy when you can see existing working systems in place. As you say live is a good service and will get better. Addition of buddy lists, integrating with msn messenger are all good steps and I look forward to what comes next. As I said though I rekon Nintendo wont fail on that side when they enter the online world fully. IMO they make the best interfaces hands down, SSBM is a prime example, so many possible options but you never get lost in it.

Remember, Nintendo arnt exactly out of it. There is hardware available, to take it online, and it is usable. They experimented with getting MK:DD online but pulled it. Tunelling software is available to play it online, though I havnt myself got a BBA so havnt tried it. Id imagine they wernt happy with their own results and didnt want to release something they wernt happy about, good job too because imagine how flammed it would have been here if it wasnt perfect. They havnt said they wont be online in the future and Im sure they will be when they feel the time is right.

--edit--

youve added a few more posts since i started writting, this one was in response to the one about ps1 tunes.

Yes the ps had more space with a cd than a cartridge slot. And that allows for some good thing, but more often when storage space leaps coders just get lazy. As an internet developer I saw as more people got access to faster services, people started getting really lazy and sloppy in optimising things, and that sloppyness spreads to the overall coding practice as well as develpment and design, it adds bugs and restricts potential enhancement in the future. Anyway cd Vs cartridge isnt the point here.

I dont think online single screen will replase split screen gaming. People who live with other gamers or have gaming friends who come over dont want to have to have 4 machines online do they, they want to be able to play round the tv laughing at each other having fun. I play poker online a lot but prefer a real game round a real table. It would be great if all multiplayer games worked splitscreen and online. Id propbably take advantage sometimes, but would always prefer the offline multiplayer experience (I have a projector so not having enough of the screen to yourself isnt an issue).

On the subject of kidy games. Im an adult and enjoyed WW, I dont think its kidy. I dont think Pikmins kidy either. Why is it kidy, because its not dark/filled with blood/has massive tits? Is chess a kidy game? What about cards, monopoly?

yes gaming dave, but as gamers get older, it gets harder to get 3 friends arround a tv, and some games, like for e.g. Halo MP, start getting really great with about 8 or more people in team games. A good example is BattleField 1942. The game is amazingly good, and it would be literally impossible without online. I mean, how many times can you gather 64 machines in a LAN party?
I guess games will start getting bigger and bigger. Small comando battles will become huge wars with facing armies.

EDIT: You deleted your post, leaving me talking with ghosts to the eye of other people ^_~;; no biggie :p
gamingdave, I dunno why you cannot understand the concept of kiddy. Chess isn't kiddy. It's to strategic and complicated. And I like the WindWaker too, although I prefered the OoT 5 to 1. I actually only finished the WW once, while I've finished the OoT 6 times, 2 in the GC. Anyhow, Zelda the WW had a kiddy visual, which means it's a colorfull game, with disproportional heads and limbs, which focus on catoon side. As contrast, the new Zelda, focus on more realistic tones, with more realistic character proportions, and seems to focus in a more serious story.
That's the difference. You know Mario is a kiddy game. The story is allways light hearted. This new Zelda was described as a darker Zelda. Hardly kiddy.

Hope you know understand what kiddy is (/satire)

yeah, agree, and I think in the future Nintendo will, but at the moment it really isnt big, thats what they are saying, its true. Id love to play MK online in a massive tornument with scheduled races. I do play online and will play more, but its rare at the moment. Add to that theres not many games that will work well with 64+ players. There can only be so many mmpog out there, as theres only so many players who will have that dedication to play these team bassed games at organised times. I expect there will be more people wanting quick online games they can jump into than ones that they invest a lot of time in.

/removes humor chip

yeah I see what your saying, if thats the definition of kidy then fine. But its far to often to describe games in a way so that people thing the actual game is only for kids, and thats wrong. The characters in the Simpsons are drawn with a kidy style, but the show isnt just for children. Its hard to discuss your interpritations in an online thread, would be much easier over a pint in the pub.

Yes the story in Mario games is light harted (and predictable) there also always fun. Im more concerned about the play of a game. Yes mood has to be right, RE set in the mushroom kingdom wouldnt be the same (well it would be Luigis Mansion I suppose). Mario games are fun, the puzzles can be complex and I wouldnt say the gameplay was tailered to kids, its a chalenge for everyone.

What I see as the future is single and multiplayer co-existing together, you know you can have your fully developed story and fleshed out character development and you can have you head to head battling provided by the multiplayer for those who want it. For someone to say, NO one may have online games is wrong because there is clearly a market for it ala, Xbox live or the masses of people playing cs and ut 2004 online. For someone to denie it's obivious appeal is madness and must be bad for bussiness.