Half-Life 2 slips

First !?
Um, what the hell happened to the other comments??

Oh no, I've fallen into a parallel universe!

Can I play?

Oh dear. Still I suppose it was stupid to be hopeful. I'd love to know what's going on behind the scenes though as there's got to be a reason for all these mixed messages.

saw the changed date when i went into game in middlesbough on saturday...

here are the old comments if you're interested...


Machiavel
03-Sep-03 13:01:48 The heading says it all. Wow.

Edit: Well Actually Kristan's face says it all. Picture. Words. Thousands. It's all there in his anguished reaction
Edited 2 times. Most recently by Machiavel at 13:16 on 03/09/2003 from 131.251.58.74
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fozz3r
03-Sep-03 13:02:16 *sigh*
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itamae
03-Sep-03 13:03:07 Precise and to the point; that's what I like about Eurogamer.
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Rusta
03-Sep-03 13:04:39 over?
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jiroczech
03-Sep-03 13:06:01 Think it's the old 'first post' trick, where you post before you've got anything to say, just to get something u ;P. So HL2 slips..
Anyone want to guess by how much before krudster updates the story? I'd say November 30th.
Edited 1 times. Most recently by jiroczech at 13:06 on 03/09/2003 from 212.135.207.162
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Merefield
03-Sep-03 13:06:59 Guys, I told you Christmas was the 25th December, not September 30th....sheesh!
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FWB
03-Sep-03 13:07:13 20th March 2014.
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X3ON
03-Sep-03 13:08:38 F*ck them, f*ck them in their stupid ass

Bugger all else out now until late Oct / Nov...
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gravity0
03-Sep-03 13:09:10 Well... shit.
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jiroczech
03-Sep-03 13:09:16 But.. that's when we're all going to die!!
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El_MUERkO
03-Sep-03 13:09:33 hehe details o'plenty

It does indeed look like HL2 is slipping, still Stalker, JK3 and the other september releases will benefit from increased interest.
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jiroczech
03-Sep-03 13:10:18 Maybe it's a false alert?
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FWB
03-Sep-03 13:10:50 But.. that's when we're all going to die!!

Life's a bitch and so are game developers.

IIRC, STALKER is very much in 2004.
Edited 1 times. Most recently by FWB at 13:11 on 03/09/2003 from 213.166.80.236
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Bob
03-Sep-03 13:13:14 Erm...
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jiroczech
03-Sep-03 13:14:56 Wonder if this is the publisher's putting pressure on for a nearer-to-Christmas release date, or Valve holding it back to fix some last minute problems?
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mr Pants
03-Sep-03 13:16:02 I work for a games developer, and I can confirm that we are infact, all bitches.

thankyou.
valve are king bitches though, my intestines fell out of my arse when i saw this, the cleaners will be pissed off
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UncleLou
03-Sep-03 13:17:22 Hm, maybe Rauper has forgotten to pay krudster his salary for September.

Anyway, the websites I've read (and which all seem to refer to a C&VG article) say the delay won't be more than one or two months.
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Rizo
03-Sep-03 13:18:29 I blame the f**king programmers
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Rizo
03-Sep-03 13:18:45 F**king Retards
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Rizo
03-Sep-03 13:19:10 Why the f**k did they get our hopes up
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jiroczech
03-Sep-03 13:19:15 linkage to the C&VG article.

Fixed again.. going for 'most edits to a simple link' record now.
Edited 3 times. Most recently by jiroczech at 13:23 on 03/09/2003 from 212.135.207.162
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catmango
03-Sep-03 13:19:19 Supposedly this latest 'slip' idea has come from the retailer GAME?

Valve themselves have never said anything but September 30th, which they repeated at ECTS in the last week. It's always been their publisher and retailers throwing random dates in the air. I'll believe it when theres official word from Valve.
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mr Pants
03-Sep-03 13:19:45 one or two months!!?

i could get hit by a car or eaten by crocodiles in that time!
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Genome
03-Sep-03 13:19:49 20th March 2014

Well, at least I'll be playing something good when the end of the world happens, then.

Yay!

My guess is November 28 or November 26. A Wednesday or a Friday. Not on a Sunday.


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gravity0
03-Sep-03 13:21:21 Edit: *nevermind*
Edited 1 times. Most recently by gravity0 at 13:22 on 03/09/2003 from 195.166.200.15
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Rizo
03-Sep-03 13:22:59 I think it may just be the uk date otherwise the large us sited would has known before CVG.

That or there going to release it on stream first.
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lost_soul
03-Sep-03 13:23:12 Hmm, GAME have probably only just caught up with the slippage rumour of a couple of months back.

I'll believe HL2 has slipped when Valve says so, or it's the 1st of October and it hasn't been released.
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FWB
03-Sep-03 13:23:30 Genome: If you're not at work, otherwise you'll only get a few levels in.

I shall assume loved ones, friends and family will not figure in your last few hours on earth.
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Merefield
03-Sep-03 13:24:12 This thread is getting crowded already...can someone open a window or something? thanks...
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Blerk
03-Sep-03 13:24:17 Come on, chaps - what does it matter? It's a game. It's not an organ transplant or a cure for cancer. Jesus, what difference does a few months make? At least it's still coming! Having a pop at the programmers is just cheap.
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UncleLou
03-Sep-03 13:27:04 i could get hit by a car or eaten by crocodiles in that time!

But this could happen today, and then a September 30 release wouldn't help would it? Or maybe you would have been eaten n by a crococdile on your way to the games shop on September 30, and on November 30 the way to the shop will be crocodile-free?

Ah, I feel quite transcendental today.

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Killerbee
03-Sep-03 13:29:32 Better that they finish it properly and release it later than rush it out half-done and patch it up afterwards.

imho

Plus it gives me a chance to play some of the other stuff I've got on the go.
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X3ON
03-Sep-03 13:29:46 hey Blerk, what are we supposed to do ? we are all cynical bitches and if we haven't got anything to bitch about then we have to do other stuff like get a life / fresh air / girlfriend

/still reeling in shock over the "its just a game" comment

lol
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krudster
03-Sep-03 13:30:14 If there is one crumb of comfort, it's that only the *retail* version of the game seems certain to slip. That's not to say Valve won't go ahead and do something unprecedented via Steam....
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volb
03-Sep-03 13:32:56 Yay! Developers obtained a delay to fix things up instead of rushing a release because of stubborn management pressure! We won't have to suffer the agony of a game shipped unpolished and unstable.

Is this good news or WHAT?
:/
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catmango
03-Sep-03 13:32:58 And more to the point, why believe a GAME employee/email over a valve team members word of mouth?
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catmango
03-Sep-03 13:33:58 They've been making it for 5 years, it's hardly going to be 'rushed out'..
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Merefield
03-Sep-03 13:36:46 That's not to say Valve won't go ahead and do something unprecedented via Steam....

Ah, good point, interesting...an incentive to sign-up perhaps?
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UncleLou
03-Sep-03 13:37:21 I've also read a rumour that there will be three different versions of HL2 (differently priced, of course), a single player only version, a sp/mp (and/or mod tools?) version and a sp/mp/mod tools/extras (whatever they would be) version. I would imagine - if it's true at all - that this would only be an option via steam, not for the retailers.
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krudster
03-Sep-03 13:37:30 Game is an extremely powerful retailer with over 40 per cent of the market...and the info came direct from Vivendi. I doubt very much this is some kind of lame excercise from Game.
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volb
03-Sep-03 13:37:42 catmango
>They've been making it for 5 years, it's hardly going to be 'rushed out'..

It's always "rushed out" to some degree, or else they would have been making it for 4 years and 10 months.

I keep meaning to go to Game in Middlesbrough, apparently there is a guy who works there who my friend assures me is unbeatable at Soul Calibur. I must try to beat him.

/realises what has just happened and gently puts comment thread back on topic...

That's a lame way of transferring the comments. I demand they be incorporated into the page in a proper fashion.

My head hurts to think of a better way...

Oi, you lot, GET OUT OF MY UNIVERSE!

I do find it hard to believe that with less than 4 weeks left, they've suddenly found an extra 2 months worth of work to do. Especially when you consider that last week Valve were still saying Sept 30th.

As krudster says, it'll probably be released on the 30th via Steam, with a retail release 2 months later.

Well, I don't work in games development but I do work in software development. If it's much the same, then it probably goes something like this:

Customer: When will it be out?
Marketing: It'll be ready next week!
Developers: What? You made that release date up based on something we said last Christmas! We need another two months.
Marketing: But we told them it'll be next week!
Management: It *will* be ready next week. /glare
Developers: There's no way on earth we can do all that work by next week.
Management: You'll have to tell the customer it will be delayed
Marketing: Fuck that - kick the programmers into shape.
Management: You're right - they'll do it by next week.
Developers: But... but... but...
Management: If you worked hard enough it would be done.
Marketing: It will be ready on time!
Customer: Good.

One week later.

Management: Well, is it done?
Developers: No. We said it wasn't possible at the time. It wasn't possible. We still need two months.
Management: Doh!
Marketing: You're all fuck-wits! You said it would be done!

/developers get pay cut

Someone should write a Dilbert type sketch based on the industry.

In most cases that is true, Blerk.

However, with HL2, they announced the release date before the publishing deal had been sorted out.

However, with HL2, they announced the release date before the publishing deal had been sorted out.

That doesn't mean the developers set the release date, though. It's usually management, who have sod all clue about what's really going on, and refuse to believe you when you tell them.

Is this just making the people who are waiting for the game want it even more?

My thought is, as long as they squeeze it out before Xmas it'll still be the best selling bit of code in history, so they don't really care what we want...

the release on the 30th via steam makes sense to me. all the localisation such as manuals and such may not be needed if it's known that it is an English only release, and if one of the reasons for delaying his lack of play testing, then via steam patches and updates can be constantly streamed to the user if bugs or problems occur, and then these updates incorporated into the retail pack for release in November

I don't know much about Steam tbh, but I guess this would seriously provoce piracy, giving Steam users the game one or two months earlier. I bet Steam and retail versions will be out on more or less the same day.

I've experimented programing first handed for 4 years now, in various projects, mainly colege related. I'd like to quote someone very smart "A task, no matter which, will take you 10% of your time, to finish 90% of it, and 90% of your time, to finish the resting 10%". This holds so true.
When programing a game, they can make something which is playable in less than 6 months, if well coordinated. A masterpiece can take years of course, but that is to develop more stuff (phisics, fx engines, alternate routes, FMVs, etc). Now, what really sucks time out of release dates, is bug crushing. Many times, you find showstopper bugs when you though there were none left, and many other times one can loose more time then needed trying to fix the said bug, or trying to find where on the fuck they forgot the ";" on 100000 lines of code. Imagine that they squashed all bugs, and when they thought they had a gold in their hands a new bug is found. Either with a combination of hardware, or something not tryed before. They can either a)still release the game, and hope the players won't find the bug, releasing a patch 1 week after the game release, b) delay the game for further testing and to deliver a finished product.
Valve no doubt is in the bug squashing mode. And this is a unpredictable time in game developement, because no one knows how many bugs/erros will come up. If they knew, they'd have avoided/currected them in the first place.
And lets not mention that sometimes currecting an error may provoque another error. This happens too many times with patches for example. So, be aware that this a very painfull process, and whatever they do, don't rush the little bastard, I don't want to download a 550 megs patch 1 day BEFORE the release (games take time going from gold to being printed and distributte).
And let me quote another smart person "No matter how good and foul proof your program is, someone who never saw a computer in his front will find a way to crash the program."

Enlightening. Thanks CC.

"No matter how good and foul proof your program is, someone who never saw a computer in his front will find a way to crash the program."

That'd be me.

Come on, guys - how many times do I have to say it?

Marketing. Marketing are to blame. Marketing are always to blame. They don't like 'when it's done', the like an actual, concrete date. And when you won't give them one, they make one up! And then you have to work to it!

Release dates, on the developers side, are usually extimatives. Not promisses.
I look at my example. Many times I say "I'll have this long term project done in 3 months". I schedule the days dedicated to the project. Near the end, I allways have to get together with my group everyday, and usually ask the professor some extra time.

Well. I'll believe it when Valve says it, or it's =ctober 1st and it hasn't been released.

Read Rapid Development by Steve McConnell - is all I can add...

"No matter how good and foul proof your program is, someone who never saw a computer in his front will find a way to crash the program."

"That'd be me."


Me too. When a friend of mine wanted to show me the superiority of PC games over console games by letting me play Half-Life 1, I managed to get stuck in a wall one minute into the game. I've never heard of anyone being able to reproduce this bug, so I'm quite proud of it.

Yeah, in the end of the day, people might be disappointed, but this is cutting-edge work, these guys really own, credit to them, we should cut them some slack - and I hope the devs and creative teams make a fortune.

Looking forward to it when it arrives.

Read Rapid Development by Steve McConnell - is all I can add...

I got sent on a course a little while back about RAD (Rapid Applications Development) and DSDM (Dynamic Systems Development Method - don't bother visiting the site, it's as boring as the inside of your elbows) and I was involved in a project using DSDM which actually worked quite well. At least, it did for the period I was on it - I never had to hang around to the end of the project or dirty my hands in supporting the thing which was probably a blessing (for me).

The idea, as CyberClaw describes, is to create 90% of your deliverables in 10% of the time - thus reducing costs for your customer. You had a set of discrete project phases, each "timeboxed" so that you worked on them for a predetermined amount of time and then moved on to the next whether you'd finished or not. Nice idea, as long as your customer doesn't need a 100% finished product and can get by on the basic functionality.

So not really appropriate for games unfortunately.

So not really appropriate for games unfortunately.

Well yes and no...the title of that book is a bit of a misnomer....its more of a Software Project Managers reference book of best practice with a lot of generic advice for all software development....I'd say its VERY relevant....just take a flick through it and see what I mean!!

http://halflife2.home lan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5867&perpage=15&pa genumber=1

Interesting posting by Gabe @ Valve on different pricing options that are going to be available for HL2 when it comes out

Good link X3ON, particularly:

In the Steam world, some people will want to buy it once, like the middle SKU above. Other people will want to buy the game on subscription (e.g. $9.95/month). The good news for the "buy it once" crowd is, well, they only have to pay once. The bad news is that when we come out with new content (expansion products, TF 2, and presumably other games) then they have to pay separately for those. We're pretty sure that the $9.95 guys are going to get the better value, as we've been pretty good over the years at generating a lot of content.

Hmmm....the EA business model on nitro!

Indeed Merefield, a totally unproven and up until now not very productive business model. Going to be interesting to see if it actually works for Valve - although I guess if there is a product to pull this off then it could well be Half Life 2

I smell fake guys, don't trust it.

The Gabe Newell thread. As if he's got time to pontificate about pricing models at this stage of the project on a fan's forum. FFS!

I can't believe that a serious game webby is taking GAMEs word as well... word. I've always gone on the assumption that you don't trust the shops at all (or the developers for that matter) as far as release dates are concerned lol!

"...most of them are not fit to be programmers, they are all marketing people at heart :-D..."

now that's just downright offensive )

they are all marketing people at heart

Ouch! What an insult! :-D

Anyway I believe these guys

http://shop.gameplay.co.uk/webstore/produ ctpage.asp?productcode=RM00327