New Xbox 360 console next autumn? Comments by Robert Purchese

@miiiguel - What is this... 20 questions?

ahah, no, it just that "many games" is just a figure of speech, right. Mirror's Edge has *a* DTS track. As an example of technical supermacy is funny, I have to give you that.

@miiiguel - "@ Darren: that's an oldfashioned concept (to me) of the industry. Here I am thinking that what we cared most was the games and the experieces they give us, by, you know..., actually playing them, but no the old idea that the hw is what matters still exists."

Yeah, right, that's why you only own a Wii this generation and still play games regularly on your PS2 and Xbox, right? ;)

Of course hardware matters, it's what allows us to experience bigger and better games with more advanced A.I. and physics, it's not just for prettier visuals you know, although they tend to come hand in hand with new systems as standard. Better graphics are the least you'd expect from new console hardware but ultimately it's about playing better, more immersive games. Well it is for me.

Yeah, right, that's why you only own a Wii this generation and still play games regularly on your PS2 and Xbox, right? ;)
Do you know which game I spent all my week end playing? Phantasy Star 2. That sentence doesn't suit me, believe me.

And Comix Zone, too, but that was for a (awesome) short while as the game's very, very short.

Yeah,pigs can fly too...

lambtron

"This simply isn't true - MS only need to look at Sega's history to see this would be a suicidal move."

Or

They could look at what Apple & Nintendo are up to (arguably 2 of the most profitable electronic businesses at present) and that's exactly what they do (update models for new sales) and make loads of money in the process.

The PS3 being so much more expensive than the 360 obviously leaves room for manoeuvre, more so when Wii is still so expensive - at what price would/will Nintendo launch the WiiHD?

And semi-conductor fabrication has moved on so much since 2005 it must be hard to resist piling on the Mhz/cores.streams etc.

Most engines these days are coded to take advantage of anything that's available to them i.e. Unreal/Cry etc. So ensuring a game runs on the system isn't going to be a huge step.

The on-line nature of the 360 lends itself to auto patching compatibility into old games and new ones carrying the code. The fact that MS licensed ATi to design them a chip (rather than buy one from the designer i.e. Xbox1) indicates this being probable rather than possible. Some of the the team that worked on the 360's Xbox1 emulator could no doubt help get this up to speed very quickly.

Heck Apple seem like they are about to go much further with the latest update to the iPhone (and touch I'd guess) with some stating that it will be nearly a generational leap but in exactly the same form factor.

DS is on it's third update, Gamecube/Wii is on it's second and iPhone/Touch is about to be on it's 5th I think - IMO I would hardly class those as a suicidal move.

@miiiguel - 'Many' as in more than the 360 since it doesn't support DTS in-game at all to my knowledge. It may do for DVD movies but I don't watch them on my 360 so I don't know. The original Xbox certainly supported DTS for movies though.

There an increasing number of PS3 games with higher quality DTS audio, including multiformat titles such as Mirror's Edge and Dead Space among others. It's not really surprising though because the Blu-ray disc has a lot more available space than a DVD.

As Darren said - I don't know if it's the same in the rest of Europe but the UK is nowhere near ready to go full digital download on all games. Our internet connections are still shocking in a lot of areas, not to mentioned we're mostly charged per GB these days. There aren't as many unlimited bandwidtch companies about as there used to be.

will it be quiet?

"Noise is only an issue with (game) DVDs because of the insane speeds they are spinning at these days - the only times I've actually heard the Blu-ray drive in my PS3 "

Do you think next gen consoles are going to use the same slow ass Bluray drive as the PS3? They will need a much faster drive.. hence resulting in noise.

360 dated but the very similar and often slightly behind ps3 isn't?

is Darren being full of poop again?

@miiigue - "Do you know which game I spent all my week end playing? Phantasy Star 2. That sentence doesn't suit me, believe me.

And Comix Zone, too, but that was for a (awesome) short while as the game's very, very short."

Well I play retro games too, so do many, many others I'd wager, but, let's be honest here, they're a pleasant addition/diversion from the many current generation games we enjoy not a substitute for them. They're also suitably priced too to make them an attractive buy. However, I did not buy my Xbox 360 to play them but that's not to say I don't enjoy them. They're a reminder of the "good old days" although I find all too often that, sadly, many haven't aged very well and don't play as well as I remembered. That's to be expected though since gaming has come a long way in the 30 years I've been playing them. I wouldn't like them to stop evolving personally, that's why I'm always excited about new hardware. It creates more possibilities.

360 dated but the very similar and often slightly behind ps3 isn't?
You must have missed the reason: Mirror's Edge has *a* DTS track.

@ Daren, yes, but what I meant is, unfortunatly, it still happens today in games like, for instance Mass Effect, you complain about the "oooh the rearing"; "the lifts" and whatnot, and probably forget to... actualy play the damn game and try to feel it for what it is. I think the movie industry had the same dilema a couple of decades ago, then we moved on and we don't really pay atention to other stuff rather than the movies themselfs.

@trebell - "360 dated but the very similar and often slightly behind ps3 isn't?"

What are you talking about? Where did I say that the PS3 wasn't? :?

I've already said that the 360 and PS3 are both dated hardware wise compared with a high-end PC. It's common knowledge that the PC with its ever evolving hardware is the reason why we see new consoles every five to six years.

"Do you think next gen consoles are going to use the same slow ass Bluray drive as the PS3? They will need a much faster drive.. hence resulting in noise."

DVD drives are spinning at around 52x these days, aren't they? And I'm assuming that goes for the one in the 360 as well? (actually I just found a speed comparison that said the DVD drive in the 360 is only spinning at 12x. If that's really the case why they hell is it noisier than the drive in my PC running at full speed?)
The BD drive in the PS3 is running at 2x for games I believe (reaching read speeds almost as fast as a DVD drive spinning many times faster), so even if they double or triple that in the next generation I imagine it should still be possible to keep noise to a minimum with proper engineering.

"DVD drives are spinning at around 52x these days, aren't they? And I'm assuming that goes for the one in the 360 as well?"

Errr.. 360 DVD is 12 speed.

Next gen Bluray drives will probably be at least 4 speed to keep up with the extra bandwidth needed. Solid state will make a lot more sense... not only is the size (and price) custom but they are much smaller and faster.

@miiiguel - "Oooooh the rearing"... what's the hell is that? :?

Re: Mass Effect... it was awesome on the Xbox 360 with a terrific storyline and great gameplay, I've never claimed otherwise. I completed it on that format too and loved every second of it. I'm currently playing through it again on my PC because that's the platform I'll be buying the sequel for. It still has numerous issues but they don't prevent it from being a great game. I'm beginning to think you get confused if I criticise a game because you think that it automatically means I don't like it.

@ Dizzy: Not in price, solid state is still quite expensive, but no doubt it's the next step. Einstein said so, many years ago.

@ Darren - Killzone 2 has 7.1 channels... And that's of the radar...

Id like to see them try and whizz that down my poxy 10meg Virgin Media line.

In your hands Media for me. You can keep your slow downloads.

Sigh

*saves money*

^ Guess you won't be getting PSP Go then. Resistance is futile.

/remembers when said that would always buy vinil records...

It'd be nice if it just ran existing 360 games, but without any tearing or framerate drops, with AA on every title, Blu-Ray drive (not happening, methinks), new design, more reliable, lower power consumption, etc... a alightly higher spec to run everything more smoothly, with bundled Natal and anything else I'll think of in 5 mins time.

Like the DSi /iPhone 3Gs where new functionality can be taken advantage of in specific titles if need be, but anyone with the new system immediatlely benefits from the extra oomph and new features.

Decent marketing, and an excellen 'Wii Sports' killer app / shocase for the new system, and they're onto a winner...

+1 on what Ryze said.

I think Microsoft can do this without fragmenting their userbase, and I really hope they do. I'd buy a new slimmer 360 with Blu-Ray and shinier specs next year. Definitely.

/watches the rush of 360s to Ebay.

Come on Miiguel - you don't want to be left with all those 360s you have when MS release the new one next year, and just like the Xbox 1 (remember that, anyone?) drop the 360 like a sloppy turd surprise. Better flog them now whilst they're still worth something. :P

"@ Dizzy: Not in price, solid state is still quite expensive, but no doubt it's the next step. Einstein said so, many years ago. "

And going down in price all the time. SS will always be more expensive than optical but if offers a lot more advantages for publishers and it is license free (unlike some other formats). You could even have a "download-to-my-SD-card" machine in the shop instead of downloading via your internet connection.

lol @ william, no buddy, I proudly even own PSones (yes more than 1!). Fortunatly money was never a problem, and (/knocks on wood) never will.
Ahah, That really made me laugh! Me, selling something? Fuck sake I'm no salesman.

"Ahah, That really made me laugh! Me, selling something? Fuck sake I'm no salesman."

Evidently clear given that you are posting on a gaming website in the middle of the working day.

I'd be seriously pissed if MS did this considerin I just bought a 360 less than 2 weeks ago.

I think Project Natal would be best left for the new Xbox myself because it obviously requires an add-on to be purchased which means that the market for the games is limited. Not every developer would support it and not everyone would buy the add-on.

If Project Natal launched with the new machine as standard then it would be a much more attractive proposition and give Microsoft a marketing angle that doesn't rely on Xbox Bloody LIVE (something that surely puts off casual gamers?) and High Definition Gaming (ditto). It could feasibly become the next generation's Wii if Microsoft market it as a fun, sociable console (don't laugh... no-one could have predicted it would have worked for Nintendo just three years ago). It'll still sell shit in Japan though, I think Microsoft will have to live with that.

@ el-dev: sorry didn't mean to bash your job (then again, "you're posting on a gameing site in the midle of a working day... confused. Then again, you can be on holidays, maybe where you live it's a beautifull sunny day, like here in Lisbon, and you're, like me, having a coke in your flats balcony staring at the street and posting), just wanted to say I don't sell my stuff, not games not sytems. And as a matter of fact I'll probably be 1st in line when the next system comes. I just don't have a PS3 (yet) because its crowd is mean to me. Also didn't want to judge people who need to sell stuff, shit is what it is, it's called capitalism.
I have (almost) all the sytems since 48k.

@miguel, we get it that you're old and play video games. Are you Portuguese? I don't like Coke and it was sunny in Belfast this morning but it's quite overcast now. But maybe you're not like me, eating a sandwhich and looking at a car park. Don't worry, you wouldn't be able to bash my job, it's a gift.


If Natal is estimated to be around £100-£150 and the 360 was slightly upgraded that would put the price of it around £300 I assume, so my point is would many people see the value in it? But then again if the upgraded 360 did come out next year that could be seen as a clear signal that there won't be a new xbox(720) for quite a while to come.

Despite the fact I've just spunked £225 on an Elite, I couldn't give a flying cack about the possibility of a new 360 with in-built Natal. Natal is shit, the Wiimote & nunchuks are shit, those stupid lollipop things on the PS3 are shit. I'm sick to death of gaming suddenly trying to pass itself off as some kind of healthy way to pass time. Just gimme a pad and let me sack out on my bed as I play, that's what videogames are about. If I want to get up and be active, I'll go outside and do it. Bollocks to all this faux fitness crap.

@ el-dev: meh..., maybe it's me, but you sound a bit hostile, don't really know why. You're the one who started "getting personal", not to be rude but I don't really want to know what's your job or what william sells to get his kicks. Then again, I'm outta here. Peace, I'm going for a walk.

edit: and for the record, I'm not old ;)

Maybe this new 360 sku might actually have the power unit inside the console! Or am I just hopping for too much here?

This sounds very much liek they are going after the Wii...

I can see exactly how this could be a Gamecube -> Wii, literally make the specs a bit better and add Natal as the standard control method.

But Why?

Looking at my other half as the average Wii console owner, she never considered the 360/PS3 but bought a Wii.

Now if I told her she can buy an addon for the 360 (Natal) she probably still wouldn't consider it.

But if it was a new console with a 'better' control system than the Wii... She might just buy it.

Basically if this is the case then it is a very sad day for gaming, the day when one of the big players stops pushing forward and takes a side step due to being able to get more money from old hardware than pushing for more power.

@Darren: WTF? You addressed an answer to a question I didn't ask!

"Come on Miiguel - you don't want to be left with all those 360s you have when MS release the new one next year, and just like the Xbox 1 (remember that, anyone?) drop the 360 like a sloppy turd surprise. Better flog them now whilst they're still worth something. :P"

these comments show a complete ignorance of why MS did that.

watch MS support this for many more years and look stupid by all means.

Darren has become a real PC fanboy.
PCs is for work, internet, facebook and WOW ( not for me though). I would never play games like Gears 2 and Halo 3 on a PC.
I like xbox live and all that comes with it - playing with my friends and increasing my gamerscore an so on. To me thats more important than having the best specs.

Sorry StooMonster, it should have been ParanoidZombie that my post was directed at, which was the post above yours. My apologies.

@muscleblade: I play most of my games on PC. Often much better graphics with real HD resolutions, well 2560x1600 pixels with tonnes of effects and AA, faster load times, often best versions of games (not always though), quite frequently free DLC, HD audio, and support for 360 control pads if you really want to use them but keyboard and mouse support (the only real way to play FPS) et cetera. Games are cheap as chips compared to console versions too, although the hardware can make up for this cost saving. ;)

Ce qui faudrait surtout à une nouvelle console c'est une nouvelle ouce graphique. Je suis certain qu'aujourd'hui ils peuvent en mettre une moins chère à produire et beaucoup plus performante
Sinon pour le reste de la console (apart pour la mémoire vive) c'est déjà largement suffisant

"Its ridiculous imo. Graphics isnt even close to being the most important factor in games. "

Oh for fuck sake, how long will people carry on using that same old argument that graphics are less important. It's such a load of horse shite. Graphical breakthroughs have made 99.99% of all gameplay innovations since the dawn of gaming possible. Good luck coming up with something like SotC or Okami when you are still in the Zork age.
Visuals and audio communicate gameplay concepts to the user, ergo they are equally if not more important as without them, the rest wouldn't even be possible.

@Miiguel
"Do you know which game I spent all my week end playing? Phantasy Star 2. That sentence doesn't suit me, believe me.
And Comix Zone, too, but that was for a (awesome) short while as the game's very, very short. "

Strange thing really since you have them both on the Megadrive collection that you choose to buy the identical Xbla versions aswell. Enlighten me please. Ooops look like i accidently downloaded the fulll version of Altered Beast. God help me.

@StooMonster

I actually bought a proper gaming PC (Intel quad core, Geforce GTX 260, 8 GB RAM) again a couple of months ago, after having almost exclusively played console games for the last 20 months (first a 360 then a few months later I bought a PS3, and the latter is pretty much the only one I've been using the last 13-14 months).
While it was first and foremost because I expected to start playing a few MMOs again (and then they went ahead and delayed Jumpgate and Champions Online the bastards :)) I was sort of expecting that I might start buying the PC version of some multi-platform games. And while the user created mods of Fallout 3 and the vastly superior PC graphics of GTA4 (I had previously played both games on the PS3) certainly did theirs to improve the experience, I've quickly found myself going back to mainly buying PS3 games again (including passing on the no doubt graphically superior PC versions of Prototype - assume that game looks pretty on any platform - and Red Faction).

For me two reasons beat out the technical superiotity of my PC - a 40" screen (vs. my 22" PC monitor) and a very comfortable chair in front of that screen. Additionally I'm actually partial to a controller over mouse and keyboard in most games (and I'm perfectly comfortable playing first person shooters with a controller, although that's probably because it was a game genre I hadn't really played much before I switched to console gaming, as I'm having problems with motion sickness on small screens), as there are already too many days where I'm putting too much strain on my wrists and fingers through regular PC use for work and web surfing.
Now obviously there's nothing stopping anyone from hooking a modern PC up to that same 40" HDTV and use eg. a 360 controller for many PC games, but my living room is... well, a living room :), and the furniture not really geared at all for a setup like that.

@Miths - I have my PC on a desk next to my bed so it's very easy for me to turn the 22" monitor slightly and play games with the wireless Xbox 360 controller while lying on said bed with a massive cushion that I have. Now that's what I call comfort gaming! :)

There's actually very few PC games that I actually play with the mouse. Even Crysis works perfectly with the Xbox 360 controller out of the box since it's one of the many Games for Windows titles, which usually (but not always!) means Xbox 360 controller support. After years of tediously messing around configuring third-party controllers it's refreshing to be able to just turn on the controller for a new game and just play it straight off. Prototype for example detects the Xbox 360 controller upon loading and automatically uses it complete with all the on-screen button mappings. An absolute joy IMO.

@Xerx3s

I believe the point being made was that a great playing game can still be great despite poor visuals, but a game that looks great but plays like dog tar is not redeemed by the visuals.

For example, Doom 1 was as suspenseful, unnerving and absorbing at the time as any other shooter has been since. Times change and visuals get more detailed, it's still gameplay that defines generation classics, not graphics.

@farticusmaximus

True.

Presumably, with this shipping with Natal, initial hardware batches will suffer from the Red Eye of Death?

I sure hope so! I was going to get a new elite, but this looks like a perfect tiem for me to get a new 360 console, and trade-in my old one. No brd needed, or wanted, thank you, since I don't want to pay for something I don't want or need. M$ can look to put a bigger HDD or SSD inb the console, and also SD card slots for easier transport of data. Continue to use the DVD median to ensure full B/C and I can fully live with multiple DVDs for huge games...but it's usually the JRPGs, which I don't like anyway. Next Fall, in time for the holiday season would be absolutely perfect for a launch...5 years laters...SWEET!

Miths well you have to admit noise, speed and reliability(from DVD to blu-ray... can anyone honestly say they are totally confident that whatever device said optical media device is a part of will last as long as you want it to... there is always a chance that it could start failing for lots of different reasons that we've come to accept) are some of the things that could be improved by eliminating optical media.

Just a couple of quick ideas that would probably need refining:

For digital distribution how about they roll out a high speed LAN accross the stores with large local storage servers, lower the prices on hard drives keep the bright idea from MS(and it was a good idea IMO) of having them detachable and portable and gamers just take their HDD's to the counter, choose their game and the wait a for their game to be uploaded along with their transaction number(which would be used again by the customer if the data is lost or corrupted).

Solid state such as flash memory or perhaps something fresh based on the same technology made for gaming. This would be ideal if it was workable(most importantly you'd have no moving parts... one less thing to fail, quieter, less heat ect. and you'd appease the ownerships rights to the "I need to have something physical to show for my hard earn cash too when I buy a game" people.) but perhaps the cost per GB for optical media is impossible to match with todays technology.

this wont be a new console - just a slim version - this will be a push to adopt the potential customers who are sitting on the fence. Does anyone know how many PS2 slims were sold in the first year? I think MS will want to mirror this effect

Yeah I think EG should have atleast tried to get clarification from MS like they usually do, doesnt look like they did this time, perhaps they decided it would be better to run with it while they can and get two articles out of it.

I do hope while its good that MS look to be on the right track to tempting the casual/new audience to their platform with Natal, that they realise it seems to their hardcore base that they have laid off the gas a little for them this year(there's still enough for this year but comparing it to last year and the year before that it seems to be the case), it could be that they chose to hold a few announcements back(because they wanted Natal to get the attention this time around) because from what I remember Shane Kim saying it sounded like they should have some first party stuff to announce soon. After letting Bungie go(even though Im not the biggest halo/bungie fan), no attempts to keep Bizarre and Bioware for Xbox(ie offer to match or beat the other bids) it seems time for MS to start adding to their first party stable again, they are in a position now to just create their own dev houses within MGS and recruit the people rather than expensive buyouts... since that sort of thing can go un noticed maybe thats what they are doing. If not then they really need do that before worrying about capturing new audiences, keep your core audience happy and the rest will be easier.