New Halo 3 disc errors?

By Tom Bramwell Published 28 September, 2007

And additional excitement.

Microsoft and Bungie are under fire from Xbox 360 owners experiencing disc-read errors from their new copies of Halo 3.

For some, that compounds existing problems with scratched discs in the Legendary Edition.

In both cases, Microsoft has already said that it will replace busted copies of the game, including Limited Edition versions, for free until the end of the year.

But that hasn't done much to quieten the discord on forums. A typical thread on Bungie's website now stretches to 30 pages, including anecdotal accounts of Microsoft support staff "confirming" that a bad batch of Halo discs exists and culminating in a 230-strong list of people claiming to be experiencing the disc-read problem.

Indeed, Eurogamer TV's own Johnny Minkley has had the same problem, although it's equally possible that he just put it in upside down or clogged it up with chest hair.

In other Halo-related developments, it's being reported that a bug which prevents players transferring Campaign mode progress between Xbox 360s is being tackled by Bungie at the moment.

The issue apparently occurs when you try to resume a Campaign having either moved the hard disk to another Xbox or used a memory unit to transfer it, resulting in an "unsafe to respawn" error that dumps you back to the main menu. Fortunately, you can still load any mission or insertion point to reclaim most of your progress, and a fix is expected soon.

And finally, tech boffins at Beyond3D reckon Halo 3 has joined a relatively poorly populated club of Xbox 360 games that run natively at 640p, rather than 720p, and then upscale.

It's well known that Bizarre Creations had to run PGR3 at 600p to achieve their desired frame-rate, so it wouldn't be completely surprising to discover that Bungie had been forced to do likewise to achieve their ambition.

Not that most will notice, of course. In fact, they would have got away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids.

For more meddling kids, check out our Halo 3 review!

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (80) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Tonka #1 5 years ago

    Omelets and eggs

  • optimusprym8 #2 5 years ago

    Halo is teh suck, Microsoft shoddy work, not true HD waaaa waaaa waaaaa there you go all said no more comments

  • Razz #3 5 years ago

    Oh? So now I know why Sony pimped the PS3 as "teh r34l n3xtg3n", I had no idea that there are Xbox 360 games that are less than 720p native! 0_0 That's rather shocking tbh.

    Ah... who cares. The games are brilliant and that's what really matters.

  • FortysixterUK #4 5 years ago

    oooh...I love a good scandal...especially when it doesn't affect me.
    ( Packs away undamaged limited edition and smiles in satsfaction at
    legendary version )

  • LeD #5 5 years ago

    Razz, the only known example of this PGR 3 - and now possibly Halo 3, and as you said it doesn't prevent them from looking the part.
    Most 360 games do 720p natively, and a few even do 1080p natively.

    Believe.

  • RexRunti #6 5 years ago

    It's the limited editions which are getting scratched the legendary come in plastic cases in a giant box which keeps them secure over.

    Also with several million discs out there are bound to be some with issues.

  • GamerAddict #7 5 years ago

    But its still a 10/10 game, the best ever..............despite its flaws and errors now! Hmmmmm!

    I for one haven't played it, I prefer something a little more original ;0)

  • homerramone #8 5 years ago

    Wonder if they have changed somrthing the disc prodution recently. I had real bad problems with biocrock.
    First one just wouldnt load past 10 mins into the game. No marks on disc.
    Second got past there, but the first level had no level textures at all. Just random crap instead. Sorted itself out after that.

  • Salvia #9 5 years ago

    FWIW my first copy of H3 (normal version) had a dent on the disc that rendered it useless. Looked like a manufacturing problem rather than someone bashing it.
    And FWIW again, H3; it's like Halo but with new weapons. Nice enough but not a 10. 8 tops.

  • Darren #10 5 years ago

    There are a number of games on the Xbox 360 that definitely don't run natively at 720p and they're usually pretty obvious as they look lower resolution and suffer from noticeable jaggies as Halo 3 does. Call of Duty 3 runs at 600p I believe but it doesn't look too bad thanks to its use of AA which helps mask it. Ditto for Tomb Raider Legend. However, Perfect Dark Zero was one of the jaggiest looking 360 games prior to the release of Spider-Man 3 and now Halo 3. Don't get me wrong, I love Halo 3, it is a great game, but the aliasing and lack of filtering does make it look less graphically impressive than I was expecting and serves to highlight that even the mighty Xbox 360 has its all to finite limits. When you think about it, games that run at 600p are half-way between standard definition (which is 852x480 widescreen) and high definition (1280x720), giving credence to certain people's accusations that the Xbox 360 is little more than an Xbox 1.5! LOL

    Does anyone know if the PS3 renders its games in HD at a lower resolution then 720p? I'd assume not based on the fact that it still doesn't scale its own PS3 titles and that would perhaps account for part of the reason why many of its multiformat games have poorer framerates than the 360. Maybe.

  • paulf #11 5 years ago

    havent got any disc errors so far (touch wood) but its by far the noisiest game in my disc drive, doesnt matter though its a great game, i for one would sacrifice resolution for gameplay, small loading times and stable framerate

  • omerga #12 5 years ago

    everything Microsoft touches is faulty these days

    except Vista of course, that was bug-free

  • andromeda #13 5 years ago

    wha??

    theres a bad with halo?

  • AcidSnake #14 5 years ago

    My disc is broken, it keeps churning out italian dubs when I play!
    Can I replace it for an english one?
    Pretty please MS? With sugar on top?

  • RexRunti #15 5 years ago

    @GamerAddict

    More original than the Forge and Theatre modes? The game also got 10/10 in Edge and has the (or at least one of the) highest ever metacritic scores. No one cares if you disagree with profesional reviewers who have actually played the game. It's a good game which has sold bucket loads... get over it.

  • Ghettomurph #16 5 years ago

    My Legendary copy came up with "Failed to Load" errors constantly. Was on the phone to some pleb at support for nearly two hours to try and speak to a supervisor which were apparently all in 'meetings'.

    In the end after much bitching by me did the guy agree that i had to spend more of my own cash to get the faulty disc to the MS tech centre, so he's sending me a free game! I had to inform him that under UK law whichever company sells a product is responsible for six years for it, then his resolve crumbled.

    Anyway, i went and bought the vanilla game to bung on ebay when i get mine back - the game is well good, better than i actually thought it was going to be. For all these people bitching about resolutions and stuff....who actually gives a fucking toss? Really? The game plays brilliantly, the graphics are very nice and defo couldnt be done on previous gen hardware, the enemy AI is brilliant, Forge is genius, saved films are great as well. Got some good achivements to encourage repeat play.

    So in my opinion the game deserves all the high scores its getting. The only thing MS need to concentrate on is their fucking appaling customer service and their dodgy manufacturing!!

  • Lateralaus #17 5 years ago

    half way through coop on system link my friends 360 brought up the disc read error but we tried other cds and it recognised everything except 360 games, so we called up game and in half an hour we were playing halo 3 again :D I've had no problems at all with my copy though.

  • Scimarad #18 5 years ago

    That resolution thing explains a hell of a lot - I thought it look low-res and jaggy but I was starting to think it was my imagination...mostly because nobody else had said anthing.

    Including the EG review, come to think of it...

  • Sebo #19 5 years ago

    Well, away to buy my Halo 3 today. Praying it works perfectly.

    Bioshock froze on me quite a few times.

    It's crazy that we can't go and buy this products with absolutel confidence.

    I would have hailed Nintendo for never letting me down, but they had that blip with Paper Mario.

    Although that was indeed a blip, Microsoft's record is absolutely appalling in comparison.

  • BadBoyBonner #20 5 years ago

    MY copy Crashed on the transition between Mission 6 to mission 7 while playing co-op. My mate has the gamerscore for the level but mine never appeared.

    No problem I thought after we complete it I will go back and do it again. played it in single player, and completed it, on all difficulty settings (well not easy as I know you do not get the score) and I still have not got the points; yet I have the points for finishing the game (surely it should know I am due the points).

    It has only done the disc read errror once, and has otherwise been faultless (even in 2 player co-op).

    The graphics are barely better than Halo 2 running on the 360 in emulation, but Halo 2 was a bit of a stunner for the Xbox anyway - so considering upto 4 players on the same machine it looks great - BUT surely they could have enabled AA for a single player on one machine. Only thing I can think of is it would have impacted the network code during the FPS dips.
    Edited by BadBoyBonner at 28/09/07 @ 10:32

  • Dizzy #21 5 years ago

    *yawn*

    >The graphics are barely better than Halo 2 running on the 360 in emulation

    Just fuck off please... leave the graphics discussions to the pros.

    Seriously. Halo 2 in HD my ass;
    Edited by Dizzy at 28/09/07 @ 10:41

  • Moz #22 5 years ago

    "Does anyone know if the PS3 renders its games in HD at a lower resolution then 720p? I'd assume not based on the fact that it still doesn't scale its own PS3 titles and that would perhaps account for part of the reason why many of its multiformat games have poorer framerates than the 360. Maybe."

    I get the impression that the PS3 SDK stops you from going below 720P as this was the main reason TH Project 8 runs so rubbish on the PS3 as the 360 version again is one the the 600-640p upscaled.

    The main problem with Halo 3 is that it's still the Halo 2 engine so my guess would be that adding tileing (which is needed for 720p as a single 720p frame doesn't fit in the 10Mb buffer) to it just was feasable.

    While lots of people are praising the choice to use the Halo 2 engine so that they could concentrate on game, I'm personally not convinced so seems to me to be a way of saving them money.

    But I guess the proofe in the pudding will be how UT3 compairs in game play cos that's ment to look better then Gears of War!!

    EDIT:/ I really don't understand the lack of AA as isn't supposed to vertually "free" on xenos?
    Edited by Moz at 28/09/07 @ 10:41

  • Dizzy #23 5 years ago

    >The main problem with Halo 3 is that it's still the Halo 2 engine

    That is just total bullshit dude.. sorry..

  • [maven] #24 5 years ago

    LeD: PGR3 and Tomb Raider are 600p and Perfect Dark Zero and Halo 3 are 640p.

  • Twincoil #25 5 years ago

    "And finally, tech boffins at Beyond3D reckon Halo 3 has joined a relatively poorly populated club of Xbox 360 games that run natively at 640p, rather than 720p, and then upscale"

    Not the best comment on a 3rd/4th gen game from an MS owned developer.

    360 has peaked early.

  • SirPhobos #26 5 years ago

    My xbox decided to make a horrible grinding noise and refuse to close the disc drive when its standing upright. And that was before I even put the Halo3 disc in ;) But it did leave a massive scratch in my Jam DVD - BASTARDS.

    I know it's unrelated to halo, apart from the fact that I was just about to start playing H3 for the first time - but now i've gotta wait 25 bloody days for MS to fix my machine.. grngrahhhhhhhh

    ...Venting Complete...

  • Darren #27 5 years ago

    @Moz - You've answered your own question regarding the anti-aliasing. Basically the 10 MB framebuffer isn't big enough to render a 1280x720 frame with AA so tiled rendering is required for this. Since Halo 3 doesn't use tiled rendering, as you correctly said, AA is not possible. All this begs the question of why Microsoft only added a 10 MB framebuffer for the Xenos GPU to use, why not 16 MB or whatever is required to handle a 1280x720 image with 2X AA? Seems like a daft design oversight to me, or perhaps a cost-cutting measure. Probably the latter thinking about it...

    It's a testament to the quality of Halo 3's art design that the game still manages to look so good despite the excessive jaggies and complete lack of anisotropic filtering but, on the other hand, it's a shame that Bungie didn't use tiled rendering so that the final game in series looked a bit more polished. Certainly I didn't expect that key Xbox 360 titles would suffer from jaggies as much as Halo 3 does.
    Edited by Darren at 28/09/07 @ 11:01

  • gamingdave #28 5 years ago

    No problems here, but as others have said, its by far the loudest disk in my 360. Im used to the noise, but this is an extra level!

  • Darren #29 5 years ago

    P.S. You can see how good Halo 3 would have looked with AA as the Screenshot features appears to render the still at 1280x720 and adds 4X AA, a bit like what PGR 3 did for its Photo Mode (which was used misleading to represent screenshots taken from the actual game!).

  • Darren #30 5 years ago

    @Nekotcha - That's simply not true unless you're talking about the 360. The PC has always rendered its graphics at the resolution you set and even the original Xbox rendered its few games natively at 720p. It's only since the arrival of the Xbox 360 that we're finding that these so called 720p HD games are actually not 'proper' HD at all but upscaled from a resolution barely above standard definition. So much for the claim by Microsoft at E3 2005 that all Xbox 360 games would be 720p HD minimum (upscaled maybe but not rendered) and that jaggies would be a thing of the past. Halo 3, a game that launched nearly two years into the life cycle of the 360, proves that simply isn't true for ALL games at all.

  • foamy #31 5 years ago

    All of you talking about jaggies.. Now the next time I play Halo 3 I'll be looking for them instead of enjoying the fucking game. I'm at the 5th mission and hadn't even troubled myself searching for AA problems, now it'll be impossible... THANK YOU EVERYONE :)))))))))))))))))))))

  • moggsy #32 5 years ago

    Darren - just play, and enjoy, the game.

    That is all.

  • Dizzy #33 5 years ago

    >360 has peaked early.

    :)

    Yea.. but, just like with other Halo games, that peak will never be reached by other console shooters.

  • ejstyles #34 5 years ago

    The copy I "won" from that shambolic Halo 3 premiere has just gone kaput on Tsavo Highway. Third time I've played it too. What a skank.

  • zuljin #35 5 years ago

    @Darren + Moz
    PS3 games have to have a HD output of either 720p or 1080p. Hence why a number of people are annoyed, since a lot of the early HDTVs only do 1080i.

  • chacha #36 5 years ago

    i frequent on these forums on a regular occurence, but I must admit i do find this Darren character a mystery as he seems to post on a daily basis but mostly about jaggies, tearing and why blueray is the best.

    Instead of analyzing every minute graphical detail why dont you just PLAY the games and enjoy them for what they are instead of saying OMG its got jaggies so it SUXORS.

  • Darren #37 5 years ago

    @trebell - Not really although it's obviously nowhere near as powerful as a 2-4 GB quad-core PC with a 768 MB DirectX 10 graphics card! ;)

    The fact is that the Xbox 360 might have a powerful GPU but it's somewhat crippled by the lack of memory which explains why it can't handle environments on the scale of Halo 3 with all that stuff going on and run it at 1280x720 natively with 4X AF and 2X AA, which is the minimum any self-respecting PC gamer would play their games at these days. The Xbox 360 is capable of churning out some stunning looking games but only with compromises - 30 fps, v-sync tearing, lower rendering resolution, etc, etc.

    That said, you won't find any sports games on the PC that look as good as NHL 08 or FIFA 08, nor does it have a racing game as visually excellent as PGR 4 appears to be so it isn't all bad news.

  • deaner #38 5 years ago

    Legendarily bum!

  • pyrat6 #39 5 years ago

    @Chacha

    "Instead of analyzing every minute graphical detail why dont you just PLAY the games "

    Spoken like a true wii owner :-D

  • SniperZoz #40 5 years ago

    pfft ... bored ... hate hate hate ... whatever .... off to play .. HALO 3

  • George-Roper #41 5 years ago

    @Dizzy

    "*yawn*

    >The graphics are barely better than Halo 2 running on the 360 in emulation

    Just fuck off please... leave the graphics discussions to the pros.

    Seriously. Halo 2 in HD my ass;"

    Amen to that.

    Whoever thinks that Halo 3 is running on a 'modified' Halo 2 engine is either..

    A) Stupid (obviously) or

    B) Stupid

    Now, I realise that A and B are both essentially the same but it's such a huge fact I thought it was worth mentioning twice.

  • BadBoyBonner #42 5 years ago



    @Dizzy

    "The graphics are barely better than Halo 2 running on the 360 in emulation
    Just fuck off please... leave the graphics discussions to the pros.
    Seriously. Halo 2 in HD my ass"

    If a guy (me) who has completed Halo 3 twice and half way through a third time makes a statement about the rendering quality.

    AND

    Someone starts gobbing off (you) when you haven't any Halo 3 gamerpoints against your name, it does make me wonder just how informed, or "pro", your opinion is.

    Halo 1 was a graphical tour de force for the original box, which Halo 2 went onto better - but H2 had slipped a little due to the speeding surge in technical prowess of it's contemporise i.e. Riddick from Starbreeze.

    Halo 3 was surpassed graphically before it was even released. To then say something silly like “yeah but what about the game eh? eh? eh?” is just crazy as nobody has called into disrepute the quality of the game – they are only discussing the graphics.

    Most people (me included) are simply upset as Halo was seen as the best in all aspects and this is not the case now. Does it mean people dislike it? Hell no, as my Gamerscore attests – just seems like a double kick in the nuts

  • Calgon #43 5 years ago

    The Xbox 360 is capable of churning out some stunning looking games but only with compromises - 30 fps, v-sync tearing, lower rendering resolution, etc, etc.

    Darren you are basing too much off this one engine, the fact of the matter is some devs have already prooved that statement wrong. The Halo3 engine has its strong points(water/lighting effects, draw distance, action/enemies on screen, framerate) but its not the best out there which it doesnt have to be this time, the graphics are are nice enough but they are no longer concerened about the best graphics crown. This is their first outing on 360 too, theyve had a long while to do it but you can see where they've spent the most time and its not on the graphics/game engine.

    There arent that many native 360 engines around, part of that is the investment and time it takes but it just goes to show theres plenty more they can tap out of this machine yet. The AA solution on 360 is far from perfect but its by far the best solution on a console yet, on the PC its different they dont have a tight budget to keep and they sell for a profit. Thats how it will always be consoles are built by teams who have to work within a stricter budget but they get alot more time to focus on one chip where the power/efficiency ratio should be more even. This is why I prefer the 360 system design over the PS3, its far more of a console(aside from cell), yet its also been designed to be very easy to port to and from PC. This should be the best of both worlds(handling PC ports very well and surprising performance with native 360 games) but we arent seeing many true 360 engines around yet(maybe its too early/expensive at this time).

    Just be reasonable 360 cant be expected to better a high end PC now but you wont be getting the same performance out of a PC with equal specs because a) the hardware isnt generally as efficient b) theres a CPU overhead and a slight GPU overhead not just because of the OS and APIs but because theres greater seperation of code from hardware due to the nature of PC hardware - game developement. The PC vs Console debate is an old one each have their advantages, I tend to prefer console games, the graphics have never been too dissapointing compared to PCs in any generation IMO(infact for the costs involved and how theyve looked on paper in comparison theres usually the "how did they manage this" games on consoles too).

    So in closing, are we going to see 360 matching highend PC visuals with 4x AA 4x AF at 1080p resolutions and 60fps without some trickery or some extreemely smart code/technology? No way.
    Have we seen the best from 360 yet? Nowhere near. Is the 360 still the best equiped to go closest as far as graphics go? Yes IMO (ie. to those wrongfully thinking PS3 has more chance of it... less chance more like, when we can see smoother framerates and better visuals in lots of multiplatform titles after a year).
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 13:12

  • BabaBooey #44 5 years ago

    I love the people saying OMG WHO CARES about the 720p upscaling controversy.

    Let me ask you a question.. would you respond with the same answer if you bought an HD DVD or Blu Ray disc and the movie turned out to be in some obscure resolution like 600p and is simply upscaled to 1080p?
    Exactly.

  • HarryB #45 5 years ago

    this has always been the way

    of course PCs are more powerful, the 360's around 2 years old now... common sense?

  • rogueleader360 #46 5 years ago

    I was originally disappointed with how Halo 3 was going to look after i played the Beta. Then I found out what I kinda presumed - that it is build upon the Halo 2 engine. I really feared that the game I've looked forward to so much since THAT E3 announcement trailer was going to be a huge disappointment... that it wasnt going to live up to "this is our Return of the King"

    Then I played the game... fearing that it would not live up to what i was hoping, or the hype that surrounded it... fearing that all the people posting on these forum would be correct...

    After about 15 seconds of running through the jungle I forgot all about the CRAP that has surrounded the game and my fears.... I enjoyed the game from that second all the way through to the fading of the end cinematic... 8 hours later. I dont think that even happened with any of my favourite games.

    Yes, clearly its no GoW or Bioshock in terms of gfx.. but so what? Its Halo! It looks like Halo, feels like Halo.... it feels right- which is what it should do.

    We all game for 'fun' and entertainment. I think some people forget that and get too involved.

  • ghearoid #47 5 years ago

    I love the people saying OMG WHO CARES about the 720p upscaling controversy.

    um, i thought that reaction was funny too. i mean, how long have 360/PS3 owner been bitching about the Wii because it doesn't have HD games? i thought that masturbating over graphics was what 360 owners enjoyed!

    ;op
    Edited by ghearoid at 28/09/07 @ 13:25

  • Calgon #48 5 years ago

    BabaBooey no not "exactly", you dont pay extra for the higher res here and the gulf is alot smaller between the internal res to the upscaled res than your example, consoles have been doing this for years now anyway. So the only drawback is it creates a few more jaggies if Im reading it right?(you cant tell me with a straight face that youd be able to spot the difference between them otherwise... the difference even when not upscaled isnt that great) The fact that someone has taken the time to count the pixels from screenshots(which is the only way you can tell what res its at, do they even own a 360? if not thats very extreem haterism) just shows the length people will go to, to complain about MS again.

    The only people who seem to be complaining are people who havent even bought a 360 let alone Halo3 yet they act like someone is trying to rip them off? It just gets worse with fanboys these days.
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 13:34

  • Dizzy #49 5 years ago

    "If a guy (me) who has completed Halo 3 twice and half way through a third time makes a statement about the rendering quality. "

    Well since I do this for work I think your gamerpoints dont matter at all mate. Saying it looks like Halo 2 is just plain stupid and a trol statement in every way. You have no fucking clue at what to look... but that's ok.. you enjoyed the game apparently and that should be the point of all games no?

    BTW I have H3 gamerpoints on my GT. Did you actually check? (and NO not on EG.. they queue their gamercards)

    http://www.bungie.net/Account/profile.as...
    Edited by Dizzy at 28/09/07 @ 13:32

  • Darren #50 5 years ago

    @trebell - The PS3 is even more crippled graphically than the 360 because of its lack of a 10 MB framebuffer. That's presumably why so few of its games use any AA at all. And anyone who's played Lair, as I have, will atest to the fact that unless the graphics are fairly simplistic, like Virtua Tennis 3, it is going to have trouble running any of its games at 1080p unless it completely sacrifices AA and AF. Gran Turismo 5 will supposedly run at 1080p natively and at 60 fps and if Polyphony Digital achieve that with great-looking visuals then I'll take my hat off to them because on the evidence of Lair, by technical wizards Factor 5, they'll struggle.

    That said the PS3 does have the advantage of a hard drive as standard whereas 360 developers have to code their games on the assumption that one isn't present. Does that mean that Halo 3 could have looked better had the 360 had a standard HDD? No-one will ever know but when you think how technically impressive Halo 2 was (despite its LOD and texture streaming issues), I'd say yes. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a great-looking game though, mostly thanks to the rich textures, draw distance and stunning art design.

  • belziah #51 5 years ago

    I told you so..............

  • Calgon #52 5 years ago

    Darren Polyphony Digital use alot of shortcuts rather than full 3d rendering(think pre-rendered backdrops, lighting ect ways to save processing power to get that framerate and resolution) but aslong as the gameplay doesnt suffer as a result it shouldnt be a problem(which is why previously damage modeling wasnt in or paintjobs, that would mean making more photorealistic textures than they had time for, even the car reflections were faked unconvincing coloured blobs, but its not something you notice without really looking for it as with all these things). Considering the time they take to make the games its no wonder they look good but when you have assests like they make the engine itself will have an easier time impressing(amazes me how convinced people are sometimes that its pure processing power at work though when other games are already pulling more off in real time). Im guessing Polyphony Digital's way is more expensive and trickier to get right(probably why it takes them so long) but as I said if it doesnt effect the gameplay(ie you get less than compared with other games) what you end up with is a great looking experience all the same.
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 14:02

  • BabaBooey #53 5 years ago

    @Calgon

    Excuses, excuses. Sure, this method has been used for ages but at least the earlier consoles weren't being praised because of their higher resolution. Did you ever see a little note on the back of a PSX game that specified which resolution was supported? No.

    This generation, however, is all about high definition gaming on your HDTV.

    720p should be 720p. The End.

  • Calgon #54 5 years ago

    earlier consoles weren't being praised because of their higher resolution.
    Ah we have a Ninty Fanboy here?

    BabaBooey excuses? The fact is that these consoles are capable of up to 1080p. You are taking a handfull of games that fall MARGINALLY short of the 720p requirement(which 90% meet) as a means to complain. You arern't missing much here the jaggies are the only worthwhile complaint and nobody "promised" anything about any of this. MS set out their requirements to the devs and told us what the hardware could do there was no written agreement(this is what the devs wanted and MS gave them the green light. Would you rather MS send them back to drawing board and tell them hitting 720p is what's most important, rather than let them concentrate on what they want instead?). Get over it, or sell it(plenty of 360 games that look better at that resolution, image quality wise, sell your 360 for all I care. Just stop whining over nothing).

    It might aswell be 720p for the difference it makes(ie why complain when you had no clue before? You want them to change the packaging for a few games? It's not worth it and this isn't exactly new or totally missleading). The End.
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 14:44

  • BabaBooey #55 5 years ago

    I'll say it again. 720p should be 720p. Simple as that.
    Besides, 600p (like PGR3) is a disaster for people who use VGA on their 1280x1024 screen because it vertically stretches the game beyond belief.

    Funny you call me a "Wii tard" and a couple of seconds later you say I shouldn't bitch and complain about something as futile as graphics. I didn't buy an HDTV for nothing and if no one complains about this shit more companies are going to start doing this in order to achieve a better framerate or push the limits of the console.

    EDIT: Jesus man, if you're going to edit your post for a seventh and eighth time at least fix some of the punctuation, please.
    Edited by BabaBooey at 28/09/07 @ 14:23

  • moggsy #56 5 years ago

    @BabaBooey

    So the Wii is capable of producing a game as visually stunning as Halo 3 on my HDTV then? In that case I might actually buy one...

  • Calgon #57 5 years ago

    BabaBooey I'll say it again theres plenty of 360 games that are... dont play Halo3 then sell it... sell your 360 in protest, the majority of us know theres not much difference between the internal and upscailed image because you know they have plenty of games on 360 that are 720p(the majority of them) to compare to and a couple of 1080p games too ;)

    I'll withdraw the Wiitard comment but Nintendo fanboys are the most two faced(they always hide the fact because they know damn well they are fanboys and their opinions are heavily biased... this is bitterness about valid comments about where Wii falls short) with their attitude towards "Xbots" and other consoles.
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 14:31

  • Calgon #58 5 years ago

    BabaBooey petty much? Fix your spelling mate before you critisize my posts... which are perfectly readable and contain more common sense. Also I was only adding and rewording for clarity, rather than aiming for a shining example of punctuation and grammar.

    Did you ever see a little note on the back of a PSX game that specified which resolution was supported? No.


    I cant beleive I missed that one, the difference being they didnt advertise resolution at all because there was no choice but sometimes they did render at a lower res internally so there you go.
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 18:15

  • anonim1979 #59 5 years ago

    Halo 3 works in 1138x640 no AA
    Why?
    Halo uses (probably) their method for HDR (price for gorgeous light effects)
    Bungie method: (34Mb PDF)
    [link url=http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=995b221d-6bbd-4731-ac82-d9524237d486&displaylang=en
    ]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/detai...[/link]

    On X360 scaled games
    Two 640p Perfect Dark and Halo3 (1138x640)
    Three 600p PGR3, Call Of Duty 3 and Tomb Raider (1024x600)

    RR6 is ~ 1440x810
    1080p VT3 and NBA street (1920x1080)
    thats all - all other games use 1280x720


    On PS3
    540p - The Darkness (960x540)
    600p - Tony Hawk's Proving Ground, Call Of Duty 3

    Ninja gaiden Sigma 1280x720 (not 1080p game - software 2x scaller to 1080 from 960x720 - 1080p is more blurred than 720p!)

    GTHD use 1440x1080
    Rub'a'dub use 1600x1080
    Stardust HD use 1280x1080

    and more - mostly software scaling to 1080i (R6:Vegas - bad and blurry)

    more info
    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php...

  • daft #60 5 years ago

    Disc read error happened to quite a few with Colin McRae DiRT too, but not much was written about that. Me and a friend compared our discs and mine (which had the disc read error) was all bumpy along the outer edge of the disc. Not the writable surface on the flat part of the disc, but the rim of it. My friends disc (no disc read error) was smooth around the edges. Looked very much like a manufaturing problem and if I had a bad Halo 3 disc with no scratches on the surface, I'd check to see if the rim was uneven or bumpy. Compared to other discs without reading problems the difference is quite niticable.

  • neuroniky #61 5 years ago

    Graphically the game is underwhelming (I'd say that even Lost Planet is better than it at times, Gears of War is so much more better than you can't really compare the two), the single player is nothing really new (but at least is better than Halo 2, meaning it's very good anyway), but when you start playing online it is simply the best multiplayer game ever made. I've played it online for a full afternoon, and even with my slow connection it was a blast... and when you finish playing it you feel just like you've just scratched the tons of different gameplay variation you could have tried...

    To me, it is even better than Unreal Tournament, a game that I loved so much that it even made me join a clan and take lessons to learn how to play it... and it doesn't need all the preparation needed for UT too, cause Halo has a more slower pace that actually allows you to make up with brains what you lack in reflexes.

    The only thing I didn't like on my first afternoon online is that vehicles are a little bit too strong for my likings (expecially those flying + shooting skimmers) and I liked more the maps that didn't have them (or where they weren't used).

    It's a 10/10 online, and when my new Wifi connection arrive I feel my love for it can only improve...
    Edited by neuroniky at 28/09/07 @ 15:54

  • BadBoyBonner #62 5 years ago

    "Well since I do this for work" - what does that statement actually mean?

    “You have no fucking clue at what to look” – again clearly displaying that your strongest talents must be mathematical as opposed to written English.

    Are you making the mistake of assuming something? Do you think that I do not understand High Dynamic Range, global lighting, real-time reflections, depth of field, real-time reflections, dynamic object shadowing casting real-time shadows both on themselves and the environment around them, normal, bump, and parallax mapping.

    I do and more, yet my opinion remains the same as stated above, Halo 3 in no way pushes the graphical envelope like the previous 2 did on their host machine. This, on top of such statements as, may run at 1080p 60fps, now seemingly ridiculous.

    Your missing my point, which quite simply is this, when the best game on the system has the best graphics, everyone’s happy, when the best game on the system over promised and under delivered graphically, then people are feeling a little let down. It’s hard to see that this could not have been done as a launch game, it really is.

  • mash the x button #63 5 years ago

    ha ha what a pile of 10/10 shite!

  • Calgon #64 5 years ago

    BadBoyBonner overpromised?(couldnt be more wrong its underated by the haters who refuse to play it, even though they delivered*which must be hard for them to accept*) Stop there, no its not the best looking game on the system overall(yet it has things that it does better than any other game on the 360 but we cant call it off a few nice effects and impressive scale of some of the scenes) but a) they never promised the best looking game out there b) It still looks great in many ways. Perhaps they didnt feel the need to this time around theres already great looking games on the system and 360 is less reliant on the Halo IP this time around.(they decided to make a great game the way they wanted instead)

    This, on top of such statements as, may run at 1080p 60fps, now seemingly ridiculous.
    Did you just make that up? I don't think Bungie would have come out with such a statement, sounds like Sony bull to me. I find it hard to beleive any person buying this game on the back of Halo and Halo2 would be let down at all, this sounds like a statement from someone who "never got" Halo in the first place. Most people are chuffed to bits, even going as far as to say its the best Halo yet by a long way.
    Edited by Calgon at 28/09/07 @ 17:11

  • Dizzy #65 5 years ago

    "Your missing my point, which quite simply is this, when the best game on the system has the best graphics, everyone's happy"

    The Halo 3 engine is designed for totally different stuff than, for example gears, and sadly you cannot have your cookie and eat it too. There is no way the current generation of consoles can look like Gears AND display the amount Halo 3 does. Hence the statement that this atm the best looking game engine for what is does. Since I write software and games as a job (and sometimes not as a job :) I understand the principle that nothing comes for free in engine design. Apparently you expect games to look real, have 100FPS, great AI AND all the other bells and whistles.

    But I guess you are saying that it should look like the best game ever because Halo 1 was the best looking game on the XBox when it launched. Maybe.. but Halo 1 was a launch title... H3 arrived after a few years into the 360 life cycle and some other people have done great stuff on the machine that looks good. Like someone said... I can probably write a game engine that looks better than Gears on a ZX-Spectrum. Just expect 1FPD(day).

    This is Halo.. it needs wide open spaces, great AI and lots of action on screen. Name me one console game that does more and is better looking. Call me in 2009. So saying it looks shit is an incredible simple view on the subject. The leap between 2 and 3 is much bigger than the leap between 1 and 2.

    >"again clearly displaying that your strongest talents must be mathematical as opposed to written English. "

    Haaaaa the classic "you can't write my language properly"-internet defence. Gotta love those due... nice and low. While true that I am a mathematician I also speak 4 languages. I am sure you can forgive me for not being as good in English as you.

    >Do you think that I do not understand High Dynamic Range, global lighting

    Pfff.. buzzwords... any 10 year old can look those up on the internet. If you really do understand them you would know why Halo3 looks good and you would know that super good looking games like Gears "cheat" on many of those features.

    Do did you expect this game to look 100 times better than anything else AND offer all the gameplay? There is a limited amount of GPU/CPU power available in the 360 after all (yea not on PS3). I wonder if you are trolling or had some weird idea that Halo 3 had to have real time ray tracing to be considered "good"?

    BTW do you think TF2 looks like "shit" as well?
    Edited by Dizzy at 28/09/07 @ 17:30

  • drumbaby #66 5 years ago

    The power of Xenos...whew!

  • Calgon #67 5 years ago

    The power of Xenos...whew!

    Yup plenty of great looking games on 360 already(including "better than PS3 versions" of multiplatform titles) and the best is yet to come ;)

  • DjWhizzkidd #68 5 years ago

    I dont like the graphics at all for Halo 3. I thought all games had to have anti-aliasing enabled?

  • BadBoyBonner #69 5 years ago

    Dizzy

    First, thanks for taking the time to write a reasoned response.

    While I agree with a lot of what you had to say about Halo being a launch title, and thus offering the opportunity to trump most people by being first out of the blocks; I think it trumped most other developers full stop.

    As for Halo 3, if all you said was completely true, does that mean that LOST PLANET is but a figment of my imagination running silky smooth at 720p with anti-aliasing?

    Obviously it is not a figment of my imagination, and the fact that Capcom have beaten Bungie at their own game on Xbox 360 is bewildering to me after the technological edge they showed with the original Halo, on Xbox, Mac or PC.

    Bungie could have saved themselves a lot of trouble and effort by asking to purchase an engine license off of Capcom.

    Search the net, there are lot’s of talk of MS dictating 1080p @60fps, with inside source stating that there was a 1080p60fps build up an running months ago, but that the core system struggled to run it efficiently enough.

    Who knows exactly what Bungie MAY have but I can reduce my point down to this:-

    Lost Palnet had the things that everyone here is moaning Halo hasn’t got. And it came out before Halo 3, by a company not as closely held by the console producer, has multiplayer and 720p anti-aliased open worlds.

    Side note

    I agree strongly with the guy who said, why should we be happy with upscaled shoddiness, if we bought a HD-DVD or Blu ray film would you be happy that the HD experience you had purchased was in fact barely above your old resolution DVD? 640P when your wanting 1080p and expecting at the very least 720p anti-aliased.

    Maybe a patch will come out, who knows, I hope it does, and please do not think am picking on Halo 3, I though it was abysmal that Airborne doesn’t have anti-aliasing either!

  • Ghettomurph #70 5 years ago

    Why are so many people obsessed with the resolutions that the 360 pushes out? Does it really matter and does it impact on a way the game is played and enjoyed?

    Does it bollocks.

    So what if Halo 3 isnt the best looking game out there. It does what it does very well - which is being a very immersive, enjoyable GAME. It looks like Halo which is good for continuity in the series and it just feels, well...right.

    The whole idea of GAMES is to play them and enjoy them - not fucking analyse them to death then whine about it because game (x) doesnt have anti alaising or isnt rendered in 720p natively.

    If certain people have nothing better to do when playing a game than think to themselves "bah, this isnt rendered in 720p natively. Shoddy." or "there's no AA here!", then i reckon a step back and a think about why you play games in the first place is in order. Are these same people going to be thinking about how well the lip synch is on Mass Effect while playing it as opposed to getting into the game and enjoying it? Probably.

  • BadBoyBonner #71 5 years ago

    The bigger the screen, the more obvious the lack of AA and/or upscaling becomes. I fully appreciate that people playing on small TV's (i.e. 42" or under) can not understand what the fuss is about.

  • Calgon #72 5 years ago

    BadBoyBonner you search the net theres no quotes from MS or Bungie promising 1080p @60fps that Ive seen, you could be thinking of Sony(who have promised allsorts). MS can be applauded this gen for their honest approach towards the games from day one. You have nothing there to argue with on that point so drop that.

    Well Level10 did say they were aiming for 60fps with 4xAA for Forza2 did they manage that?(I havent checked but I assume they met those two aims atleast) I think they might have but there was complaints about the rest of the visuals in that title too(good but not great), another high scoring game... you know - maybe MS want to show they arent just focusing on graphics(other than whats important to the game whether its 60fps, AA, draw distance, high poly counts, physics, image quality/shaders ect) in their 1st party line-ups and pushing emphasis on gameplay when needed? You cant argue that its not worked on critical or sales level either, aslong as theres eventually games that do have all the bells and whistles why make such a fuss?. As for the resolution arguement no the Blue-Ray/HD DVD comparison is totally flawed, you arent paying extra for a higher resolution and you certainly aren't getting too far from it.

    Halo3 > Lost Planet for scale, framerate, no-tearing, AI, physics and on screen mayhem-mayhem-mayhem! Give them a break its a great game, a good looking game(image quality not the best but plenty of impressive effects), fact of the matter is it doesnt need to have the best visuals out there to be great(they are good enough to make it a great game at the end of the day even without noticing the neat touches). Wait for the next big 360 FPS if bothers you that much.
    Edited by Calgon at 29/09/07 @ 01:34

  • armyourfists #73 5 years ago

    I've had two attempts to buy Halo today from PC World and both copies crashed with the 'this disc is unreadable' error at the same point[the second part of the cut scene where the arbitor and everyone just start to walk off]. Arse.

    Anyway, I'm gonna give my mum some cash tomorrow[as i'm going out of town] to get it for me from somewhere other than PC World as I want to avoid the crappy batch.

    Edit* Oh, and it was the standard edition.
    Edited by armyourfists at 29/09/07 @ 12:04

  • BadBoyBonner #74 5 years ago

    @trebell

    The post by anonim1979 links to an article by Bungie detailing how to render HDR the Bungie way.

    About two thirds of the way through it details the multiple scene rendering method and states how nice it looks at the high computational cost and inefficiency due to multiple rendering of the same scene.

    I do hope that nobody else follows their rendering method – I feel sure there are better ways to render HDR and global lighting i.e. RAGE engine.

    I also hope everyone else follows Bungie in making any Sci-Fi based game one which (like the Halo trilogy) could compete with any films back-story, artistic finesse and voice acting; with a special mention to the network code and the exemplary 4 player Co-op.

    "In fact, if you do a comparison shot between the native 1152x640 image and the scaled 1280x720, it’s practically impossible to discern the difference."

    Couldn't agree more - a 1152x640 image scaled to 1280x720 will still look almost identical to the lower res 1152x640 image.

    "In fact the reason we haven’t mentioned this before in weekly updates, is the simple fact that it would have distracted conversation away from more important aspects of the game"

    Or in the alternative, it allowed Bungie to escape having to justify a decision that many a 360 owner feels leaves a black mark on an otherwise near perfect product.
    Edited by BadBoyBonner at 29/09/07 @ 18:07

  • Ghettomurph #75 5 years ago

    @BadBoyBonner

    "Or in the alternative, it allowed Bungie to escape having to justify a decision that many a 360 owner feels leaves a black mark on an otherwise near perfect product."

    You say that "many a 360 owner feels leaves a black mark..." sorry mate, this 'many' you mention is actually a minority. The majority are happily playing the brilliant campaign and great multiplayer and messing around with Forge and the Theatre mode and playing co-op trying to beat each others scores - the minority are complaining about resolutions because theyre the type of people who analyse the shit out of things.

    Like the quote from Bungie said: "...the internet’s propensity for drama where none exists." - the game looks great, and i play it on a 42" Plasma through HDMI (Elite) at 1080p.

  • BadBoyBonner #76 5 years ago

    @Ghettomurph

    Seems you could have saved £100's by getting a lower res TV if you think 640P looks good on a 1080p set.

    In fact why not invest in a VGA lead and run the 360 at 640x480 on your 1920x1080 screen so you can tell me how silky smooth the frame rate has become.

    Plus I feel you have either not read my posts, or have misinterpreted the obvious, so I’ll state it - I think everything about the game is fab except for the rendering engine resolution and lack of AA.




    Edited by BadBoyBonner at 30/09/07 @ 16:54

  • George-Roper #77 5 years ago

    @BadBoyBonner

    "Seems you could have saved £100's by getting a lower res TV if you think 640P looks good on a 1080p set.

    In fact why not invest in a VGA lead and run the 360 at 640x480 on your 1920x1080 screen so you can tell me how silky smooth the frame rate has become.

    Plus I feel you have either not read my posts, or have misinterpreted the obvious, so I’ll state it - I think everything about the game is fab except for the rendering engine resolution and lack of AA."

    Because..

    A) Halo 3 is not the only game on the 360, so to 'downgrade' your TV for a single title seems a bit, er, sensationalist. A bit like this whole 'issue' don't you think?

    B) Whilst it might have forgone 720p and AA, it more than makes up for it in HDR and lighting. I've yet to see any other title that matches Halo 3 in this department and also continue to offer silky smooth gameplay and visuals.

    Nitpicking. That's all it is.

  • BadBoyBonner #78 5 years ago

    irnchriz

    erm - when Bungie themselves are saying that there is perhaps it is time to have your eyes tested in you fail to see them on both the set's you have mentioned.

  • Apologie #79 5 years ago

    Eurogamer shoul be a shame by giving 10/10 in the present console generation to a game that don't run at 720p, don't really improve on gameplay, and have frame rate issues. Nice game, but not even close to a perfect score.

  • Ghettomurph #80 5 years ago

    @BadBoyBonner

    Why would i buy a smaller tv just because i personally think Halo 3 looks good? When im running the game at 1080p the 360 is upscaling the image to 1080p - just like my dvd player upscales to 1080p...so, im not viewing the game at 640, im viewing it at 1080 and it looks fine to me and everyone else who's seen it running on my telly.

    If you're that bothered about the resolution and lack of AA then thats your problem, dont play the game and dont analyse the shit out of it.

    Btw, your attempt at a sarcastic response to what i said was....amusing to say the least. Especially when you ignored 90% of my post. Nice one....