Music games are "crap", says Bunnyman

By Eurogamer staff Published 29 September, 2009

Hopes players get "electrocuted".

Echo & the Bunnymen lead singer Ian McCulloch has dismissed music games as "crap" - and wished instant death on everyone who plays them.

McCulloch, who admits to not owning a computer and recording his demos on cassette, was speaking to occasional Eurogamer contributor Steve Hill during an interview for Esquire.

Asked if he was aware of games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band, he claimed to have once seen somebody trying to play one. The opinionated McCulloch - famously dubbed Mac The Mouth - then offered to sum up the phenomenon in one sentence.

Goaded by Hill, the singer replied: "I hope they all get electrocuted, because they shouldn’t be playing with that crap."

McCulloch was taking part in the interview to promote the Bunnymen's forthcoming new album, The Fountain. It seems unlikely that tracks from it will be available as downloadable content for music games. You can read the full article over on Esquire.

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Comments (66) Latest comment 2 months ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • DAN.E.B #1 2 years ago

    Are they still going?

    What a Prick!

  • ZuluHero #2 2 years ago

    Funny, I think the same about Echo and the Bunnymen, but at least I can see the merit in what they do and that others might like them. And I certainly don't have any ill-feelings toward his fans.

    I bet he thinks the same about digital recording and distribution as well. There is such a thing as living too much in the past and the ‘glory days’.

    This isn't a case of controversy for controversy's sake is it?
    Edited by 2 at 29/09/09 @ 08:54

  • JonFE #3 2 years ago

    Would it be rude of me to wish him, in return, zero royalties on Bunnymen's forthcoming new album?
    Edited by 1 at 29/09/09 @ 10:00

  • SAMagic #4 2 years ago

    Ah, a celebrity troll, how quaint!

  • RobotRocker #5 2 years ago

    This is the kind of idiocy that drives people to piracy

  • Goodfella #6 2 years ago

    All I can say is thank God none of his shitty music is in Rock Band.

  • Fleisch #7 2 years ago

    Who's he then?

  • Stoatboy #8 2 years ago

    Oy ZuluHero! E&TB are one of about 6 bands from the 80s still worth listening to. Don't make me hunt you down.

    Doesn't mean he isn't spouting utter gobshite here though.

  • Eoin #9 2 years ago

    He doesn't own a computer and thinks that a cassette tape is an acceptable form of storage in 2009?

    Wow. After giving that quote did he attack someone using a mobile phone for being a witch, and then cycle away on his Penny-farthing?

  • Camorrista #10 2 years ago

    Another song, Mr. Bond?

  • SteveB #11 2 years ago

    Well it takes all sorts. After all, people are strange.

  • Doctor_What #12 2 years ago

    I bet he wouldn't complain so loudly if he started getting royalties from them.

  • Fwing #13 2 years ago

    I saw the Bunnymen live at Ipswich Gaumont in 1984. Shortly before their opinions became irrelevant.

  • DaemonSpawn #14 2 years ago

    Hell yeah, I love the guy! I think figthing games are crap too - they don't teach players how to fight in real life, instead giving them false feeling of power and some fun (and I have the right because of years of unarmed and knife combat training)! Driving sims should be banned too, and their players guillotinated. Same about tactical aka "realistic" shooters - hang the players!
    How can these suckers have fun with these crappy games without learning useful things? It's not realistic and not real, so it should be banned!

    _
    Sometimes I wonder if musicians have some brain left in their heads or it all long gone 'cause of their crappy music. Such GH/Rockband commenters look like they don't even realise that people play these games no to learn how to play guitar but to have fun!
    Why soldiers, drivers and martial artists don't make such stupid comments on shooters/autosims/fightings while musicians do?

  • Eraser #15 2 years ago

    Never heard of the man, so I guess he's pretty insignificant.

  • andromeda #16 2 years ago

    +1 Ian McCulloch

    well said..

    although i dont think people should be dying...

  • schnide #17 2 years ago

    Guys, can't you see he's totally right?

    I was going to become a globally acclaimed classical Spanish guitarist last year, but instead I picked up a copy of Guitar Hero 3 and thought "fuck it, I'm just going to waste my talent on here for ten minutes and then go for a wank."

    The music world collectively weeps.

  • TriggerHippie #18 2 years ago

    Brilliant!

  • 5h1nj1 #19 2 years ago

    Never heard of that bunny guy but that was a very intelligent response, really. The man knows a lot, obviously. O_o

  • Beek4257 #20 2 years ago

    I love it when people tell me what not to do. I'd be so lost otherwise...
    Thank you mr. Echo and best regards to the Bunnypeople.

  • XdarXideX #21 2 years ago

    I love these dirty little comments about music games from musicians. Especially the ones about "learning to play a real instrument instead". Music games often inspire people to learn to play instruments by unearthing a desire to make music. Others play games because they have no desire to spend months or years of their lives learning to play instruments and just want a bit of fun.

    Stupid musicians!

  • AllMetal #22 2 years ago

    Echo and the Bunnymen are "shit", says Eurogamer readers

  • MiniAmin #23 2 years ago

    I shall never understand why musicians decry music games. The vast majority of people who play them just want to have fun and have no intention of learning an instrument. If anything I'd wager that many a shitty garage-band hasn't formed because of great music games.

    I'll never forget the irony of Nickelback making similar comments. Maybe if someone had created Rock Band 20 years ago Nickelback wouldn't be punishing us with their shitty music.

  • skillian #24 2 years ago

    Kids used to learn the guitar because they want to be rock stars.

    Now, to get that feeling, they can play GH or RB instead of picking up a guitar or joining a band.

    You might not agree with that hypothetical scenario, but it's not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is a bunch of people calling his (awesome) music shit just because he doesn't like the game you play.

  • barrylyndon #25 2 years ago

    You may scoff at this guy and hate his music (like I do) but this man speaketh the truth.
    I can play guitar. Sold my guitar, didn't play for a few years. I bought Rock Band 2, loved it. Then bought rock band beatles.
    I used to play a lot of beatles songs. The beatles game made me realise that playing a real instrument is thousands of times more interesting and worthwhile than simulating the experience on a plastic guitar. I cant enjoy the music games anymore, they feel too much a waste of my time. Learning how to simulate how to play an instrument. How ridiculous is that.

  • Jaybles #26 2 years ago

    Maybe these games are just meant to be a bit of fun?
    I dont know, sounds a crazy concept

  • Goodfella #27 2 years ago

    @ barrylyndon

    I don't think they are or are intended to be a simulation or replacement of a real instrument. I've been playing real guitar for 20 years and there's nothing I enjoy more than a session on Rock Band, it's just FUN, remember FUN?

    If anything it actually encourages picking up a real instrument and to some degree actually teaches you the fundamentals as far as the drumming goes.

  • Monkey_Puncher #28 2 years ago

    I enjoy some of his music, but he really should shut the fuck up and stop commenting on something he doesn't understand. Saying people should stop playing them because they could be learning a real guitar is the same as telling someone to stop playing Modern Warfare and go join the real army.

    It's a game, it's not supposed to be a substitution for learning real instruments. But it does help get people into music they probably wouldn't have ever listened to if they'd never played Rock Band or Guitar Hero. Not everyone has a talent for making music, there's already enough shitty guitar players out there who learn 2 Nirvana songs and never progress any further.

    These people in the music industry need to shut the fuck and be pleased that there's another way of them getting their music into peoples houses. It's not like the music industry has been raking in the cash of late...

  • jambo74 #29 2 years ago

    I predict and hope Bunnymen's forthcoming new album will crash and burn with instand death on the billboard charts.

  • schnide #30 2 years ago

    @skillian

    If that's true, then music games have done the world a favour. If people were picking up guitars only to play out their rock star fantasies, these games will keep them out the way so that real musicians with a desire to spread their music or message to the world will have less timewasting, preening and egocentric competition.

  • funkateer #31 2 years ago

    @xXBrombeerXx
    "singing with vibrators [.....] like you should"

    wow, everyday you learn something new....
    Edited by 1 at 29/09/09 @ 11:14

  • Kikizosan #32 2 years ago

    Meh. He's just trolling to drum up interest in his new album. I might download it...on second thoughts, it's not worth that much.

  • JensonJet #33 2 years ago

    He has a point!

    Exploring a fantasy world or going on an wonderfully strange adventure, I understand. Being a racedriver or fighter pilot, which so few people get a chance to do in real lives, makes sense. Taking part in a virtual combat experience without the realife dangers is understandable too. And there are many games that I don't care to play but can understand why people may like them. But music games. They really don't make sense to me at all.

    I don't understand why anyone would want to press a couple of buttons along to a cd! The reward and pride that comes from being able to play a real instrument surely far outways whatever people get from playing music games. It's not that expensive to learn to play an instrument, but I guess the key is it takes far more skill and a lot more practice than just pressing a button when you're told to.

    However, as these games have proved popular you have to admire the businessmen who created them. In business terms they're one of the most clever game genres ever. With such a wealth of source material, and clearly being very quick and cheap to produce and with such extraordinary earning potential it's no surprise these games were created. The surprise is that they're popular.

  • kinky_mong #34 2 years ago

    I love all these accusations that Rock Band/Guitar Hero prevents people from learning a real instrument as if its a one way cause and effect, totally ignoring the fact that there are plenty of cases where playing these games have encouraged people to learn a real instrument.

  • Beek4257 #35 2 years ago

    The graphics when playing a real guitar are a bit meh.

    /goes out to eat some pills and run from ghosts

  • holloguts #36 2 years ago

    I hope the valves in his tapedeck overheat and melt his tapes.

    The music was crap then, and his best of album will still be shit now.

    Dinosaur.

  • RobotRocker #37 2 years ago

    How many times does it get into peoples heads that these games are for fun and escapism. Not everyone can be a rock star like these tools think. Heck, most people get into Rock Band and Guitar Hero simply because they don't have the time to dedicate themselves to the intense amount of practice, have the space to do it or piss off the neighbours. Hell, I'd love to get my hands on a real drum kit (Quiet in the back) but I don't have the time in my life at the minute to dedicate myself to it, nor do I have the space for it either (Say what you want but the RB and GHWT drums are handily compact enough for storage. Even a standard 3 tom, snare,bass and 3 cymbal kit is a nightmare to store). Rock Band lets me drum away contentedly and without worrying too much about noise or space.

    You cant just pick up an instrument and learn it straight away too. Creating music takes years of practice, craft, timing and stress with 3 other people who you could fall out with at any time and screw up the make up of your band. People give up their lives to become musicians and it still doesn't just work out for the majority of them. Douchebags like Chad Kroger are too blinded by the fame to realise for every "Succesful" rock band. Theres about 50-100 wash-out bands trying to tour the gig scene getting screwed out of money by shady promoters and barely scraping by with no future since they usually gave up education for "the dream". The dream is only for the successful few who might have friends in the right places or even blew the right promoter who had a record industry/music publication contact who might give them the time of day for 5 minutes. You have to be insanely lucky, talented or both to get into the industry and even when you get in, you are at the whims of the Record Company who may want to change your sound, your look and your set-up and will take away all your promotion if you rebel until the contract ends and dumps you back into obscurity. And lets not get started about Drug/Alcohol abuse stemming from the extreme amount of stress band members will be under.

    The only issue with Rock Band is when the bassist gets sick from too much Jager and you fight over the select screen.

    tl;dr version: Rockstars need to shut the fuck up, realise just how lucky they are and quit hating on these games since they made Rock music relevant again. Echo and The Bunnymen would have been done a long time ago if it wasn't for the revival of Rock thanks to GH/RB.

    /not a musician but has been around plenty to hear some ridiculous horror stories. Its not all Spinal Tap y'know

  • Slipstream #38 2 years ago

    Can't say I've even heard of the guy...FIRST IMPRESSIONS! FAIL!

  • ZuluHero #39 2 years ago

    @JensonJet

    Why do people play Air Guitar then? And some of them passionatly. There are even championships.

    With these games its very easy to get lost in the moment, esp. when (on hard/expert) each button press corresponds to a note heard. Its easy to forget that you aren't playing the real thing, as the crowd cheer you on.

    Now i don't know about you, but my guitar skills are nowhere near as good (now or ever) to let me get up on stage to millions of fans. And regardless of people's boast of skill here on the forums, i doubt very much that many of theirs will be either - otherwise they would be up there doing it aleady and not complaining about these emulation games on a games forum ;)

  • Fitzmogwai #40 2 years ago

    Always been the case that E&TB make great, great albums (still!) and McCulloch puts his foot in his big gob every time he opens it.

    Won't stop me enjoying playing with little plastic instruments while still buying E&TB's music.


    Hey everyone, why can't we all just get along?

  • TitianWarrior #41 2 years ago

    Eraser, just because you haven't heard of him doesn't make him insignificant. I would imagine his musical knowledge and ability makes you insignificant.

  • Rubarack #42 2 years ago

    Shock! Musician emerges from a drug induced stupor long enough to insult something he doesn't understand.

  • funkateer #43 2 years ago

    @JensonJet
    "He has a point!

    Exploring a fantasy world or going on an wonderfully strange adventure, I understand. Being a racedriver or fighter pilot, which so few people get a chance to do in real lives, makes sense. Taking part in a virtual combat experience without the realife dangers is understandable too. And there are many games that I don't care to play but can understand why people may like them. But music games. They really don't make sense to me at all. "

    Look, it's really simple and you've basically almost answered your own question.
    Many people don't get the chance to be a rock star and feel like they're an awesome musician, so playing a game that makes them feel that way for a while makes perfect sense.
    Learning to play a real instrument requires a lot of dedication, and many people just don't have the time or aren't interested in going through all that. They just want to play rock star. Is that so difficult to understand?

    A 'virtual musicianship experience' is really not all that different from a 'virtual combat experience', see?

    That bunnyman is just being a shortsighted prick being all irrelevant and looking for attention, and of course he has no point whatsoever.

  • curtlikesmeat #44 2 years ago

    Not too bothered about his opinion on this, they're very nothing special now a days.

  • electrolite #45 2 years ago

    "It has nothing to do with playing a real guitar"

    NO! Say it isn't so! I hadn't noticed. It's almost as if.......

    (pauses for dramtic effect)

    They. Are. Games.

  • abydos #46 2 years ago

    I agree, they are crap. Maybe players shouldn't get killed for playing them, but still the games are the same and extremely pointless.

  • Goodfella #47 2 years ago

    @ abydos

    So what games aren't pointless, surely they all consist of sitting glued to the TV and not really learning anything?

  • noobjob #48 2 years ago

    i wish the people who slag off music games would die so suck on that you bunny twat man

  • sneetch #49 2 years ago

    @funkateer

    Well said, funkateer.

  • Feanor #50 2 years ago

    I'm going to write to my MP.

  • kangarootoo #51 2 years ago

    @skilian

    "Kids used to learn the guitar because they want to be rock stars. "

    You know what, they still do. And they will continue to do so, perhaps in greater numbers because of games like GH.

    It really puzzles me that some people (Bunnyman dude, not you) have such a deliberately obtuse attitude to this sort of game. I'll put it in as clear terms as I can....

    The assumption that less people learn guitar because of these games is deeply flawed and almost certainly untrue.


    Indeed, the reverse is in fact more likely the case. People playing this sort of game get a taste of what it is like to play a real guitar, but they don't get the full version. Some of them will be happy to continue, and these people were likely never going to pick up a guitar in the first place. But there will be other gamers who feel inspired to learn to play a real guitar as a direct result of playing Guitar Hero (I know of one, and another who is learning drums after playing RB too). And then finally there will of course be those who were always going to learn to play the guitar, but also enjoy these games.

    Playing GH gives you the fun of playing a good video game, buit it doesn't let you play gigs or jam with friends or compose your own tunes... and for those reasons it simply won't result in gamers who would have learned to play the guitar simply not bothering.


    Here is another example, whilst I am on a rant. Do real pilots hate flight sim games, because they think people who might learn to fly now won't bother? Or do they in fact see that a flight sim can be what sows the seeds of enthusiasm and passion that eventually leads to someone learning to fly the real thing? And do many actual pilots also enjoy using flight sim software themselves (even though its not really like flying a real plane)? I'm sure you can all guess the answers.


    I think what we have learned from Mr Mac the Mouth is that being famous does not always equal being right... and that was true well before Harmonix thought up GH.

  • kangarootoo #52 2 years ago

    @TitanWarrior

    "Eraser, just because you haven't heard of him doesn't make him insignificant. I would imagine his musical knowledge and ability makes you insignificant."

    I think you have it wrong way around. Being well known is no gurantee that someone is significant. And a person can only be made significant or otherwise by their own actions, not the actions of someone else.

  • VibratingDonkey #53 2 years ago

    I'm pretty ignorant of this guy, so I guess I think he's crap and hope he gets electrocuted.

  • darc #54 2 years ago

    "they shouldn’t be playing with that crap."

    Just makes him sound like an old man. *His* old man probably said the same thing about electric guitars a few decades back.

    Guitarists need to stop evaluating rythym games a substitute for playing instruments. It's egotistical nonsense. I don't read about racecar drivers freaking out daily because people drive racing sims, nor do I read about football players freaking out over Madden et al. It all comes back to the cliche rock star ego trip.

    Rock Band and Guitar Hero are about particapatory listening - they have next to nothing to do with "simulating guitars".

  • el_pollo_diablo #55 2 years ago

    Well it all goes to show, people ARE strange.

  • skillian #56 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    You know what, they still do. And they will continue to do so, perhaps in greater numbers because of games like GH.

    Maybe they do, maybe they don't - my point is it's not unreasonable to think that some people may have just decided to buy Guitar Hero instead of a guitar because it is easier and more fun.You say your hypothetical is "far more likely", but don't give any evidence for that. Unless anyone has any numbers the argument is going nowhere.

    My real problem is the amount of people saying: "what does this old irrelevant dude know about anything? His music was always shit and this pointless twat should fuck off and die." Would they have said that yesterday, or are they just butthurt that he doesn't like Guitar Hero? It's childish to the max, and I suspect on that point you would agree with me.

    And your flight sim analogy doesn't really work. Firstly it's trying to simulate the experince of flying, which as so many people have pointed out here is not the case with Guitar Hero ("it's not a substitute, it's just a game";). Secondly, if a kid wants to grow up to be a pilot, he can hardly buy a plane or flying lessons. That's clearly not the case with a musical instrument.

  • kangarootoo #57 2 years ago

    @skillian

    "You say your hypothetical is "far more likely", but don't give any evidence for that"

    Well, ok. I don't have any evidence. If I had said "as likely" that would perhaps have been better. My point is that the assumption that "my point is it's not unreasonable to think that some people may have just decided to buy Guitar Hero instead of a guitar because it is easier and more fun" is common but unsafe. People quote it as truth, as often the defenders say "so what" instead of saying " that isn't known as fact". I am simply saying it is not known as fact.

    "It's childish to the max, and I suspect on that point you would agree with me."

    I do indeed. I don't mind being critical of him, but I'm not critical just 'cos he doesn't like a game that I do like.


    As for the flying sim analogy... we can get buried in the difference between a simulation and a "its a bit like it, sort of" type game. But really that is more a discussion about how many tick boxes are required before something can be listed in the simulation genre. My point is that a flight sim is "a bit like flying, without being the real thing" and yet real pilots don't flip out about them. I'm just not sure why (many if not all) guitarists get so tetchy about GH (I'm a guitarist as it happens, if a bit of a rubbish one).

    As you say, GH isn't a simulation, which gives Bunny dude even less reason to get his nose out of joint.
    Edited by 1 at 29/09/09 @ 17:44

  • FogHeart #58 2 years ago

    Yes Feanor, someone DID spot your Young Ones reference.

  • jambo74 #59 2 years ago

    Echo & the Bunnymen are "crap", says music game fans.

    Is the guy a fool or what? These fans are some of the last of the 'paying publi'c for music.

  • Barzan #60 2 years ago

    Im not going to comment on Echo and the bunnymen because i have only heard one song that was in a film
    just in the same way he should not comment on something he knows nothing about. F***ing Nob!

  • Kinkster #61 2 years ago

    So much Vitriol people - why so defensive?

    By the way, he said he hoped people got elecrocuted. He's not wishing anyone death.

    And no, I don't own any Bunnymen albums before you start.

    x

  • kangarootoo #62 2 years ago

    @Kinkster

    "By the way, he said he hoped people got elecrocuted. He's not wishing anyone death."

    Not sure if this is sarcasm ort not :)

    Technically, electrocution always means death. If you aren't killed, its not electrocution, it is just an electric shock. Its an often misused term in that sense. So either Bunnyman WAS wishing death on people, or he is mildly illiterate.

  • sharky_ob #63 2 years ago

    @ xXBrombeerXx

    Singing with vibrators? What a lovely image. I think you might mean vibrato.

  • YourMessageHere #64 2 years ago

    I think he's overreacting massively and speaking from a position of total ignorance, which is contemptible and not worthy of this publicity, but I can't disagree generally with his attitude.

    To clarify: guitar hero-type games and sports games simulating playing a sport are much the same in my eyes; unlike strategy, shooting, racing, flying or many of the other games that allow a person to do something they'll probably never do, these are games that simply save you the effort of learning something that's actually fully doable in reality. It's like the difference between eating a microwaved curry and cooking one from scratch - the instant meal is not half as tasty as the one made with fresh ingredients, nor as good for your insides, in learning to cook one meal you learn loads of transferable and generally handy skills, and people's dependence on convenience food has resulted in a huge number of people who can't cook even if they want to.

    With GH, maybe the shortcut allows people to have fun, as certain people here keep going on about, but I am certain the sense of achievement that a person will feel if they learn to play an instrument or a sport, not to mention the socialisation and secondary skills they'd gain, AND the fun of playing, are a much better goal. "I don't have time to learn" is just an excuse - if it's important enough to you, you can make time; after all you are reading this website instead of doing it, and you learned to play GH etc. I reject the "GH makes people who otherwise wouldn't learn guitar" line totally - you need passion and dedication to play an instrument, and if you're so spineless and uninspired that playing GH makes you take up guitar, rather than doing it off your own initiative, chances are you'll not get anywhere with it.

    The underlying issue for me is that this sort of game inculcates this attitude where people look at something reasonably achievable and say to themselves that it's OK to not make an effort to do things and simply simulate them on a very superficial level, and forego the much greater long term payoff for a quick, ultimately paltry alternative whose only real recommendation is that it's relatively instant. I'm not going to say that's wrong or immoral or anything, but I will say I don't feel comfortable with the idea.

  • YourMessageHere #65 2 years ago

    @ lord:

    Watching sports has no interactivity whatever, so I can't see how it relates to playing a game. I'm not talking about the play mechanics, I'm talking about attitudes. There's little actual reason to play a tennis game beyond competing with simulations of high-level pros; if you're just playing against friends, why not actually play tennis? Music has no element of competition so it's even less meaningful to me.

    I never said anyone here was going to be "as good as real bands" (ignoring the fact that any band is a real band), but the point I was trying to make is that it's not important that you become excellent, but that you enjoy playing an instrument to any standard, along with all the experiences that come as part of that which one does not get with GH. Becoming a viable chart-topping band is obviously unlikely. To recycle an overused aphorism, it's not the winning, it's the taking part. Playing an instrument is it's own reward - when you work out how to play something, it's a great feeling.

    How have I missed the point?

  • MightyJordan #66 2 months ago

    Just stumbled upon this article. Since this article, Rock Band 3 came out in October last year, and on the soundtrack is "The Killing Moon" by a band called Echo & the Bunnymen...


    Oh, the irony!