MTV wants Rock Band bonuses back

By Oli Welsh Published 15 February, 2010

Seeking refund on $150m paid to Harmonix.

MTV owner Viacom is going is asking Harmonix for a refund on some of the $150 million it has paid the Rock Band developer in bonuses, reports Gamasutra.

MTV bought Harmonix in late 2006 and Viacom paid out the huge sum after the release of the first Rock Band game in 2007. It sold a million copies in its first month on sale.

But now Viacom wants some of that money back. "In 2008, we paid $150 million, subject to adjustment, under this earn-out agreement related to 2007 performance," said Viacom in a new Securities and Exchange Commission filing.

"At December 31, 2009, we believe that we are entitled to a refund of a substantial portion of amounts previously paid, but the final amount of the earn-out has not yet been determined."

Viacom's president blamed the company's falling sales on the music franchise earlier last week, calling 2009 "challenging" for the game industry in general and Rock Band in particular.

The news comes after the music game bubble burst last year, with sales falling by as much as a half while unsold instrument bundles of The Beatles: Rock Band, as well as Activision's DJ Hero, Band Hero and Guitar Hero 5, clogged the aisles at retailers.

Activision has reduced its slate to two music titles in 2010 - new DJ and Guitar Hero games. Rock Band has an edition devoted to the band Green Day in store.

While some argue that music games have gone out of fashion, others claim that it's market saturation of the instrument peripherals that has hurt sales, and revenue will now move to software and downloadable content.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (38) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • spliffhead #1 2 years ago

    Don't let this stop them making Piano Hero/Band!

    I need that full size Steinway Grand.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/10 @ 09:18

  • roz123 #2 2 years ago

    I think alot of its fans are now bored of it. All my friends who were really good at it a year ago dont play anymore. Alot of them have picked up real guitars instead

  • TeaFiend #3 2 years ago

    Until Music Man Hero is out, I don't care.

  • Lotos8ter #4 2 years ago

    Oh Harmonix, where did it all go wrong? Openly mocking the UK market with the inflated prices of Rock Band, even including a tongue in cheek Union Jack face mask for your in game character that was "expensive because of exchange rates" fnarr fnarr.
    Who's laughing now?

  • Stroller4 #5 2 years ago

    Once you have the guitar(s), it's just about paying £40 for a bunch of songs, some of which you don't like or want, others which have already been in the series and all of which can only be used in game. Free up the songs to be played from the hard drive at any time and ymoved onto an MP3 player and you'll get a little more interest back.

  • Ryze #6 2 years ago

    One man band hero would be interesting!

    But seriously - they couldn't expect people to continue buying instrument sets for £100 plus, could they?

  • RobotRocker #7 2 years ago

    Who's laughing now?

    Harmonix obviously. The software still sells (And boy will it with Green Day Rock Band), its just the hardware they are cutting back on. DLC is still profitable and Rock Band Network will add to it since they can now be releasing DLC 24/7 over XNA. Viacom are just fishing for their bonus back since the entire companies revenues are down. Standard business procedure when someone over-invests.

    Also, Guitar Hero: World Tour's full band kit launched at the exact same price as the RB Kit and game bought together separably without discount in the UK. Who's laughing now etc, etc

  • Mono_X #8 2 years ago

    If they're going to continue hardware production, then they need to refocus their efforts on more cost effective hardware.

    I see potential growth for Triangle Hero and Spoons Hero.....

  • andywilkie35 #9 2 years ago

    I don't understand why Activision/MTV/EA/Whoever thought that releasing a shit load of instruments every year would mean that people would but them every year. "Guitar Hero 5, with new, almost identical instruments!" "Yeah thanks but I've already got some instruments so I'll just buy the game on its own"

  • Murton #10 2 years ago

    Am I the only one who thinks that the main reason that music games aren't as popular any more isn't because of overpriced instruments but because the tracklists are shit?

    The EA/MTV/Harmonix partnership have two options before them that would make a shitload of money. 1: release multiple discs devoted to particular genres and sell at budget price. Instead of 70 songs mixed and matched you could get Metal Band, Classic Rock Band, Punk Band etc with 25 songs just from that genre (with the ability to import) for say 20 quid. Or option 2, go modular: Sell the disc with just the engine for a budget price, include a few sample tracks or maybe some hooks to the RockBand store to get some free tracks of the players choosing and then let the player build their own tracklist through the store.

    Either of these approaches would make the game a lot more attractive than it currently as nobody wants to pay full retail for a music game and only end up playing half the tracks because they can't stand the other half.

  • CaptainScarlet #11 2 years ago

    Love Rockband! best party game ever! Bought the instruments and the game on release day and have never, ever regretted it once. I have had more than my moneys worth out of the game and the peripherals (oh, also I can play real Guitar and Drums so SHUT UP about picking up real instruments)

    Obviously its a shame that they over estimated the sales and want the bonus money back. I personally think that it's pretty out of line and if Viacom were happy to pay out bonuses based on projected sales then that is their fault!!

    Not entirely convinced by these 1 band only offereings. I loved the beatles release I mean who wouldn't but most other bands I really only like a few tracks. I pretty much stick to DLC as I can pick and choose the songs I want and there is a pretty nice selection of Rock tracks on there already. I like green Day but wont buy the Green Day only Rockband game.

    Oh, and the reason DJ Hero isn't selling isn't becasue of the failing market for music games it's because it's totally crap and doesn't get anywhere near the fun of playing as a group in a band. (just my opinion :p)

  • chrisjm #12 2 years ago

    should do this to the bankers who profited from messing up the banks!

  • DAN.E.B #13 2 years ago

    at least you have DLC!
    G H,s DLC is total and utter shit!

  • chrisola #14 2 years ago

    Black Metal Hero would be awesome.

    It would come with a guitar shaped like a battle axe, spiked armbands, corpse paint,a box of matches and a guide to flammable places of worship in your area.

    Do it.

  • RobotRocker #15 2 years ago

    @ Murton

    They actually have tried both these approaches. You can get Classic Rock, Metal and Country packs in the states that export to RB2 in the vein of the AC/DC game and Lego Rock Band. Green Day will be exportable too. They are also doing a version of Rock Band on the iPhone that has a free base version that you fill with songs you buy in the DLC store.

    This is all well and good for a Digital release though, but for a physical copy, it will never work since they have to create value for money in a £40 game which is why you get so many tracks. Granted, the fun is exploring and playing songs that you think you hate and finding them really fun but DLC is there to cater to people who don't want to play Paramore (Philistines).

  • kangarootoo #16 2 years ago

    @EarlBassett

    "An album of Rock Band songs to cost more than the real album costs in the shops?
    That's where you're going wrong"

    You realise that when you buy an album in the shops, it doesn't come with gameplay.... right?

  • sneetch #17 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    You realise that when you buy an album in the shops, it doesn't come with gameplay.... right?

    Yeah, you also can't listen to Rock Band songs on your car's CD player. :)

    The argument seems to be that they're both songs so they should cost the same. It's like complaining that a new chip (CPU) costs a hundred pounds or more and you can get a large chips (potato) for a couple of quid. They're both chips so they should cost the same.

    I'm being facetious, in case anyone's wondering.

  • Murton #18 2 years ago

    Robot Rocker: I'm not talking about a disc of 25 metal tracks, I'm talking about the game, but have 25 metal tracks instead of 70 mixed and matched and sell it at a lower price point. I can't stand the cookie cutter indie shit that has been popular the last few years, I despise emo and hardcore music with a passion and I rather eat my own arm than play the soul-sapping monotone shit that is most grunge music. Between these couple of pet hates GH 4 and 5 are unplayable to me and I'm sure everyone else has certain bands or genres that don't want to be forced to play in career mode too.

    But as I'm often told when I take offence to specific types of music, "it's all subjective" so based on that why not release music games to specific tastes rather than than assume that because it was popular it is liked by everyone. Scale it down and add some focus, I suspect the upshot in sales will be more than worth the extra effort.

  • dsmx #19 2 years ago

    I still don't understand why when they have a store that sells music you can't just buy the game with no songs with it and then just give people the ability to download say 50 songs through the store so they can decide on what songs they want. Rather than shoving on a load of songs on a disk some of which people will hate with a passion.

  • darleysam #20 2 years ago

    Does the article actually say anywhere why they actually want the money back? What were the conditions of the bonus, and what ones did Harmonix fail to meet?

  • kangarootoo #21 2 years ago

    @EarlBassett

    What is wrong with you? Is this some kind of test?

    "So you two think that more work went into creating the Rock Band playable versions than went into creating and producing the songs originally?"

    That question is irrelevant, and its worrying that you can't see why.


    Here is another question that might help you see the light.

    Do you think the artist gives their music away for free?

    IF the only thing that had to be paid for was the gameplay, you might have a point... but it isn't.


    Buy an album in the shops, the artist and record label get paid.

    Buy an album in a game, the artist and record label AND the people that made the gameplay get paid. Hence it costs more.


    Is it just me, 'cos that seems blindingly obvious to my eyes.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/10 @ 13:33

  • MasterNameless #22 2 years ago

    It's blindingly obvious to most of us with an ounce of sense too, don't worry.

  • Syrette #23 2 years ago

    Viacom should sack them for even considering a Green Day Rock Band, let alone just asking for some money back.

  • varsas #24 2 years ago

    @EarlBassett: I've not seen many people complain about the price of the RB DLC songs. An iTunes track is 79p and the RB track is 99p; the consumer is paying 20p for the gameplay, less when part of a pack.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/10 @ 15:12

  • rprince #25 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo You are right, that in terms of licensing, more people need to be paid for the RB/GH track download. That's how it works.

    I think @EarlBassett is trying to say (which I agree with) is that it would be a much fairer world if, having paid to use someone's music (ie. bought a CD or MP3) you then just have to pay the cost difference of making it into another format for consumption. Actually, @EarlBassett proposed it in the structure of receiving the MP3 for other uses, along with the RB/GH download.

    Do you think it's fair to have to pay again to get all of your music in MP3, even though you already own the music on CD?

  • varsas #26 2 years ago

    @rprince: EarlBassett has said nothing like what you described. He's just complained that DLC is too expensive citing the cost relative to standard music albums. He completely forgot that money from the DLC goes to the artists too.

    Regarding what you describe, it would be nice if we just needed to pay once for things but I don't think that will ever happen until there was a way to authenticate that original licence against a specific person across all media.
    Edited by 3 at 15/02/10 @ 15:32

  • kangarootoo #27 2 years ago

    @EarlBassett

    "In the eyes of the consumer it is just too much money"

    The consumer in this case being you, not everyone.

    "it is that you are an insufferable cunt"

    Charming.

    "and nowhere near enough sense or knowledge"

    Coming from you, I don't think I'll lose too much sleep over that.

  • RobotRocker #28 2 years ago

    Settle down kids.

    While it would be lovely to get a combo pack of music and Rock Band Downloads. It would be really tricky to pull off and even then, you might only get it through ridiculous DRM methods like Zune Marketplace. That's not to say that they aren't trying. You can buy a version of Backspacer by Pearl Jam that has both the CD and a code for the album in Rock Band and the president of MTV games wants to create that sort of model with Digital Downloads where you can get a combo pack of the album in MP3's and in Rock Band.

    As for the DLC cost. The unfortunate thing is that their is the cost of the licensing goes alongside the manpower that goes into creating a track. It takes 30-60 hours for one person to author a track depending on complexity. Then it needs to be playtested to make sure its playable and pass through QA. Then it has to go through Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo's Internal QA before reaching the store itself. Its not as straight forward as just getting the masters and making a track. 99p/160 fun points is fine compared to the utterly ridiculous £2.50 Activision was looking for DJ Hero DLC though.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/10 @ 16:28

  • kangarootoo #29 2 years ago

    @rprince

    What you suggest is a fine idea, not disimilar from the idea that I don't have to pay full price for mp3s on iTunes if I already bought the same songs on vinyl 10 years ago, or disimilar from the mp3 / CD comparison you mentioned yourself.

    That wasn't what EarlBassett was suggesting though. He was simply being characteristically dense, spurred along by his annoyance at having to pay more than he would like for in-game content.

  • penhalion #30 2 years ago

    I love it when I'm right. I said last year, that no-one could possibly have a frikkin' living room like the ones in the adverts and that after playing these games for a few weeks people would realise two things.

    1. The games were a bloody rip off.
    2. Without your mates around they were pointless to play too!

    I still haven't worked out why people buy them when it's actually cheaper to get a real guitar and learn to actually play an instrument. More fun and impressive too in the long run.

  • Jonny5Alive7 #31 2 years ago

    I still mainly play the games for playing the guitar and its only very occasionally when I have enough people round to do a full band. So all the songs used to be based around playing the guitar, but because they have to incorporate other things there aren't as many good ones for me. GHWT springs to mind, theres good songs on it that are really rubbish to play the guitar to.

  • RobotRocker #32 2 years ago

    How many times do we have to do this?

    it's actually cheaper to get a real guitar and learn to actually play an instrument.

    When you factor in accessories like amps and pick-ups, lessons and/or literature (You are not the next Hendrix who was a one in a million prodigy and a product of the environment he grew up in. Shut up. You need those books.) the cost exponentially shoots up and you better not be downloading those tabs off the internet mister since that is the oldest form of piracy in the book.

    More fun and impressive too in the long run.

    First, thats Subjective. A lot of people who start playing guitar ditch it due to the large amount of learning and hard work required to even get proficent at it.

    Second, Remember the Family Guy skit about Douchebags playing guitars to impress people? Thats 95% of people who pick up guitar. Every time you break that Guitar out at a party to impress people, most people are thinking "What an utter twat" rather than "Oooh, a guitar player, he sure is talented." while you do your crap Red Hot Chilli Peppers covers.

    I wish the most horrible venereal disease to every single smug idiot who comes into these comment sections and acts like he is so smart saying "Play a real instrument".

    WE GET IT. THE SAME ARGUMENT IS IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD ABOUT THESE GAMES SHITTING IT UP. SHUT UP AND GO AWAY.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/10 @ 18:13

  • kangarootoo #33 2 years ago

    @penhalion

    "I love it when I'm right"

    You certainly do. If only this was one of those times.

  • aphexstwin #34 2 years ago

    @robotrocker. i agree on the cost side completely! 100 odd quid for an instrument pack is a damn sight cheaper than what my kit cost. but i also factor in noise and the fact that playing drums by yourself or without any kind of backing becomes very dull.

    i have no real beefs with any music game: i think gh's drums are more realistic than rb's but the rb store is immense. just wish that i had the ability to kick that fucking Visions out the game, theres no need to shit on folk like that.

    not a fan of green day personally, love dookie but only liked september ends out of the more 'fuck the usa' political stance that they have these days. gimme a full iron maiden release please! the amount of quality songs theyve released pre prayer for the dying would make a huge game anyway, never mind what theyve done since

  • miiiguel #35 2 years ago


    So you two think that more work went into creating the Rock Band playable versions than went into creating and producing the songs originally?

    What's the point of that question? Artists who feature in RB are payed for.

  • skuzzbag #36 2 years ago

    financing devs in this way seems like the worlds best gamble. If it fails you get your investment back.

  • kinky_mong #37 2 years ago

    Winners of this comments section: kangarootoo & RobotRocker.

    Biggest loser of this comments section (and every comments section he "contributes" to): EarlBassett

  • bigbadbeasty #38 2 years ago

    I loved the original GH, really was a joy, even the girlfriend liked it. However, I think the whole thing got outta hand, with too many options and instruments.

    Perhaps if there wasn't two competing band games it would be better. But it just seemed like a relentless stream of releases, and with so many versions (and on different platforms), and the whole thing of 'this' instrument works on this game, but not vice versa etc. It all just causes so much confusion for the public.