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MS has been talking to Blu-ray all along News
Xbox 360 PlayStation 3 News by Robert Purchese
Xbox marketing bigwig Jeff Bell says Microsoft has been talking to Blu-ray about the possibility of a partnership all along.
He was speaking about Warner Bros.'s recent decision to exclusively pick the Sony-championed disc format, and did not rule out the possibility MS will adopt it at some point in the future.
"We've been talking to Blu-ray all along because we have the best piece of software in the business, called HDi. It is the backbone that powers interactivity in HD-DVD and we have that available to potentially partner with others," Jeff Bell told 1UP.
"You never say never. I think we'd like to see how things evolve. Our commitment, however, to HD-DVD is profound and consistent, and we have done very, very well in term of our accessory sales."
Microsoft still counts Universal, Paramount and DreamWorks among the supporters for HD-DVD, and Warner Bros. continues to be one of the largest contributors to its IPTV service.
Interestingly Bell also highlighted the relationship between Microsoft and Sony, as its rival uses Windows software on its laptops and what not. They do more talking than you might expect. Bell calls it "coopetition".
Xbox Live Video Marketplace launched last December in the UK, offering downloadable films for digital rental; you splash out 250 MS Points (GBP 2.13 / EUR 2.91) for standard definition and 380 MS Points (GBP 3.23 / EUR 4.42) for high definition, and films will become unwatchable 24 hours after you first start viewing them or within 14 days of download.
The service has been available in the US since late 2006 and also lets you download television shows like CSI or Star Trek. No word on when this will happen here yet.
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Comments: 1-48 of 48 in total
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rhinoxious
28/01/08 @ 11:40
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Coopetition . . . Brilliant!
At the end of the day if it's good their shareholders then they'll work together, bottom line. |
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"Interestingly Bell also highlighted the relationship between Microsoft and Sony, as its rival uses Windows software on its laptops and what not. They do more talking than you might expect. Bell calls it "coopetition"."
So now Microsoft might have a Sony fightback on their hands, they're playing down the rivalry it seems? And headbog, if it takes that long, gutted. Sure internet over here isn't ready for such services just yet, but 4 days is still a little piss taking.
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most recently on 28/01/08 @ 11:45
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Psychotext
28/01/08 @ 11:48
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@headbog: Firstly, you need to get a better internet connection because I can start watching HD movies on the service within 15 mins. Secondly, you have 24hrs to watch it after you start viewing... exactly the same as all on demand services. Finally, more expensive than BB? How much do you think points cost?
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dirigiblebill
28/01/08 @ 11:51
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That 'efect' jibe would have been more effective had you not spelt 'exaggeration' with one 'g' :)
/two cents EDIT- You may of course have been being ironic, in which case I'M ONTO YOUR STINKING ACT.
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most recently on 28/01/08 @ 11:52
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The "hate/war" between Sony and MS only exists in fanboys heads, IMO. While playing "Scene It?" all week-end, I was rather impressed with the number of movie clips "Courtesy of Sony Pictures" which were shown.
headbog: I recomend calling your ISP, it's been working fine for me.
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most recently on 28/01/08 @ 11:56
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"@Bigstu: hardly.. Sony and MS have had various business agreements in place right the way through this phony war. "
I'm not doubting for a second though, we all know this, it's common sense that they'd be working together. But obviously they've chosen to ignore it until now, until Sony look like they're getting stronger. That's just how i see it anyway. |
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Psychotext
28/01/08 @ 12:08
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@headbog: So you get an extra day... at a higher price (other than the 3 for £9 thing) and you have to be lucky enough to live close to a BB. Plus of course you have to hope they have stock at the time.
For me, this / other on demand + lovefilm = perfection. I watch most things through lovefilm but from time to time buy an on demand film when I'm in the mood for watching something random. Given the MS service is cheaper than any of the other on demand services, I'd choose to use them, but I just wish they had more content. |
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To get back on topic...
The trouble is that Blu-Ray uses Java for its menus and Microsoft won't like that at all as they'll have to pay a license fee to Sun Microsystems. By backing HD-DVD they avoided this as they use "Advanced Content" which is just XML.
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most recently on 28/01/08 @ 12:16
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@headbog
Exaggeration for effect is all well and good, only if you're exaggerating a true point.... BlockBuster rentals cost more than both the HD downloads and the SD downloads. Also, the download of movies is a variable on your connection, and I haven't had anyone I knows Live 'drop out'. Problems matchmaking on certain games maybe, that's all sorted now though. |
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Microsoft think Blu Ray needs HDi? I can see an HDi-like library running on BD-J to simplify menus and layout but seems highly unlikely that HDi would ever be natively implemented. What's the point after all when BD-J can do everything HDi can and more besides. BD-J is certainly not going to be as easy to program as slapping some XML layout together but I see no reason that such code couldn't be developed if it doesn't already.
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most recently on 28/01/08 @ 12:40
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kangarootoo
28/01/08 @ 12:52
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"It worked until around 6pm, then craped out - sitting with the swirly dot thingie for about 10 minutes before logging out again"
I've found XBLive to be quite flaky over the last week or so too. And their recent decision to require that content download takes place before half the dashboard blades display anything other than said swirly dot thingie is a work of madness. What was wrong with the way it worked before I ask you? |
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kangarootoo
28/01/08 @ 12:58
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@systems
"The trouble is that Blu-Ray uses Java for its menus and Microsoft won't like that at all as they'll have to pay a license fee to Sun Microsystems" Its not really about the license fee as such, but you are on the right track. MS would happily pay a license fee same as any other company and just pass the cost down the line, if the tech being licensed it met the other requirements of their business. As it happens, I'm not you have to pay to create a JVM do you? I thought it was free, but I may be entirely wrong. The problem with Java as far as MS are concerned is that it is an open platform. This fundamentally competes with a lot of MS's own technologies, which require lock-in by the consumer. MS got sued by Sun as you may recall, for creating a JVM that was not compliant with the standard. Their version of the JVM would only run MS Java code in certain situations, which is contrary to the whole point of the tech (they also got sued for the whole IE bundled in Windows palava). The point is that MS aren't even happy about Java existing in Windows (they don't include it themselves anymore) and they certainly won't be happy about producing a product that uses Java as a core tech. |
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kangarootoo
28/01/08 @ 13:11
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"Jump in, bring it home, this is living yada yada yada!"
Hmmm. Good points, well made, thanks for the contribution ;) |
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SeesThroughAll
28/01/08 @ 13:15
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Those above who are referring to BD-Java have hit the nail in the head. The people at MS simply HATE open platforms, and are now giving it another shot at "suggesting" HDi to the Blu-Ray consortium. Hopefully, they will not give in, or will at least find a compromise that does screw their partners over.
Sony already pays licensing fees for the use of MS media formats such as WMA and WMV (since 2.10) on the PS3. Likewise, VC-1 is a standard and commonly used codec in BD movies, at least lately. This is common, rivalry does not need to go as far as some would imagine. |
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Well Microsoft are going to have to consider an HD format for their next console because it would be suicidal of them to release a download-only machine in just five or six years time because I don't believe this country's broadband infrastructure will be good enough in terms of reliability and speed, not for many, many years yet. And besides dropping optical formats would mean you couldn't play CDs or DVDs on the next Xbox so logic says that Microsoft will definitely include one, hopefully BD.
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P.S. I've got to agree with Headbog's first comment... Microsoft Video download service is awful. It took me over 18 hours to download Zodiac in 720p, only to discover that it had shitty stereo sound and NO subtitles. I certainly won't be using the service again as I have hearing problems and I felt I'd wasted my £5. I'd have been better off putting it toward a £5 DVD movie really which includes *basics* like DD5.1 surround sound and subtitles!
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@kangarootoo: your explanation is what I meant to say. I think MS would choke if they had to use Java so if HD-DVD loses they'll keep pushing for the "Active Content" of HD-DVD. Which I happen to like to be honest.
As for the other side of this thread (download service) it makes you wonder why we're not being offered HD on DVD if they can fit the film at 720 with stereo sound into ~6GB. |
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@Headbog -
SD downloads play after 15 minutes, but I cant get HD ones to download that quickly. I have an 8 Meg connection with BT Broadband (and I have never seen my connection get anything near 8 Mbps in reality, but that is what I pay for). I can watch standard def movies after around 1 - 2 mins of pre downloading, and sometimes it's almost immediete. I can watch HD movies after about 10 mins of downloading... for a movie I have 24 hours to watch, costs more than a BB rental, and has worse quality! 1) You have 14 days to watch it, unlike the 3 days you get from blockbuster. 2) Blockbuster is MORE EXPENSIVE than Xbox Live. Check your prices. 3) I cannot personally fault the quality of either the SD or HD downloads from Microsoft. To me the quality seems very good. Anyone else want to comment on their experience on this? |
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@Adam_T, and they could have produced a blu ray add on at any time in the last two years as well. But they didn't which shows how much they thought about that idea. I think it is likely that MS had a tendency to support HD DVD if for no other reason than it contained more of their IP and Toshiba was so desperate that it assumed the position for MS. But they didn't *embrace* HD DVD, such as by including the player in the 360. They could have done that but they didn't, not even in the 360 Elite where it made sense. So MS supported the format, but didn't see too invested in seeing it succeed. This makes me believe they hated blu ray and saw HD DVD as a way to prolong the war as long as possible until VOD became viable.
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systems - "As for the other side of this thread (download service) it makes you wonder why we're not being offered HD on DVD if they can fit the film at 720 with stereo sound into ~6GB."
Well HD-DVDs and BDs are encoded at 1080p with 5.1/7.1 channel surround sound and require 15-50 GB discs for that, far too large for any current download service. And even if someone released 720p movies with stereo sound on a dual-layer 9 GB DVD, no DVD player would be able to play them as they can only show 720x576p maximum. Some DVD players can upscale to 720p but that's not the same thing as showing a 720p native movie. Of course, magazines like OXM360 do put 720p HD videos (of game footage) on their cover discs every month but you cannot use them in anything other than an Xbox 360. |
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Kenshin001
28/01/08 @ 14:50
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"Our commitment, however, to HD-DVD is profound and consistent, and we have done very, very well in term of our accessory sales."
This sentence is funny in all sorts of ways. Would be interesting to see how the HD-DVD add on is selling these days as from what I've read the format is rapidly becoming as popular as AIDS. |
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BadBoyBonner
28/01/08 @ 15:25
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Aids figures
Worldwide in 2006* 4.3 million new infections (3.9 million in 2004) 39.5 million HIV positive persons (36,9 million in 2004) 2 .9 million deaths from AIDS, including 400,000 children (2.7 million in 2004) In Africa: 2.8 million new infections. 24.7 million HIV positive persons, including 2 million children. 2.1 million deaths. 4.7 million persons in urgent need of treatment, 83% of which dont have access to it |
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SeesThroughAll
28/01/08 @ 16:32
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And only the Xbox 360 can play these compressed files at the moment.
?? What format are they in? |
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@SeesThruAll - Some special format owned by MS. Apparently it can compress HD video to a large degree without losing quality.
DISCLAIMER: This is what I have been told from a friend. In no way do I vouch for it's definite truth, only that this is what I have heard. If anyone out there actually knows if this is true or false then please let me know :) |
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cyber_nicco
28/01/08 @ 17:02
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@headbog
I have downloaded an HD movie QUITE recently, and it took around an hour. It was ready to play after 5 or 10 minutes. Perhaps it's you and your setup that are the problem... |
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farticusmaximus
28/01/08 @ 17:23
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"no such thing as compression with out loss"
Wrong, there are plenty of lossless codecs out there. |
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@Headbog
"I dont like having to pay a premium price for a service that offers no advantages to me whatsover. " Just in case you think people who do like the service are idiots. Digital Downloads are currently twice the size of the $300m Blu-ray/HD-DVD market and expected to grow to $1.6 billion in 2008. DVD's were down 4% in 2007. First time ever DVD dropped since launch. People often use digital download for convenience. Nothing is easier than sitting on your sofa and clicking a button to watch a movie. That's how tv works. Sit on your sofa and click a button. Blockbuster means two trips to a store. Netflix means waiting 24 to 96 hours. People typically pay more for convenience. That's the way it works. Not sure if you understood that or not. |
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Kenshin001
29/01/08 @ 06:02
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@L42yB, I believe the word you may be looking for would be common or widespread eg. AIDS is common/widespread in third world African countries. Popular indicates something that is admired or well liked by the public, which both AIDS and increasingly HD-DVD are not.
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