MS explains "theGAYERgamer" name ban Comments by Robert Purchese
Not a result of anti-gay lobbying.
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Poster
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As someone said earlier (I think Shinji) sexual reference =/= reference to sexuality. If you want to use such a broad definition as to confuse the two then there's plenty of other things you shouldn't be allowed to use either. Any reference to eggs should be banned, any reference to children, BANNED!
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Madafunkola
15/05/08 @ 13:34
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I would like to cite "South Park: The Movie" as an indication of American opinions on censorship.
"Mindless violence (and gore) is OK, as long as you don't have a potty mouth" I'm going to guess that sex (of any kind, straight, gay, trisexual) lumps in with the "cursing" rather than the violence after the UPROAR over Janet Jackson's nip-slip... wardrobe malfunction. So kids are TOTALLY aloud to blow the bejeezus out of each other online, but NO REFERENCES TO GENITALIA!!!!! Many states have the age of consent at 18 (well South Carolina it's 14 for a woman and in New Mexico its 17 for straight but 16 for gay) but they can own a gun at any age (buy one at 18)... |
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DanWhitehead
15/05/08 @ 13:36
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If I understand how child's accounts work on Live, if someone with a childs account was playing Halo 3/COD 4, they would see all the gamertags of the people playing against them, right? So it does make sense that people shouldn't be allowed obscene names there.
And if you're sensitive about what your children are exposed to, they shouldn't be playing Halo or Call of Duty, never mind playing it online against strangers. As I said before, an "obscene" username (which "theGAYERgamer isn't) is the least of your worries in that scenario. Children aren't stupid, they know they are being fobbed off when given that response, look, it's not a massively huge deal but all I'm saying is, I prefer these things to be moderated to some extent. Just because a kid knows they're being fobbed off (wow, that sounds gay) doesn't mean the parent should be browbeaten into explaining something they don't want to. My son sometimes asks questions about jokes on The Simpsons or Futurama, and - if it's something overtly sexual - then I just make something up or say it's a grown up joke. He may grumble and pester, but - hey - that's kids for you. On the extremely unlikely off-chance that a child finds a Gamertag with "gay" in it, and is curious enough to ask what it means, there are plenty of explanations that can be used without even mentioning homosexuality. Personally, I'd rather my children learn what these terms mean from me rather than the playground, since that's how bigotry gets continued from generation to generation. There's a difference between learning about sex and learning about sexuality. Every kid knows that men and women fall in love and get married blah blah blah, so why is it so awful for them to learn that sometimes people of the same gender do the same? The more kids learn that it's not a big deal, the less of a big deal it becomes. Because, unless you're a die-hard religious nut, it really isn't a big deal. It's just a fact of life. As for the question of moderation, Microsoft are sending out a pretty mixed message by banning a gay player just for using "gay" in their Gamertag, while hundreds of users continue to hurl homophobic and racist abuse at each other. If they banned everyone who did that, the service would be a wasteland. A wonderful wasteland where the few remaining gamers can play against each other in peace, but a wasteland all the same. |
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DanWhitehead
15/05/08 @ 13:44
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Is your sexual orientation an interesting aspect of you that you would like to show the world in a gamertag? Why is being gay interesting to a gay person? Why is it cool to tell everyone your sexual preference? It should be an every day, boring aspect of his life.
If you really don't understand why a member of a minority group would want to make a statement about themselves in such a way, then there's really nowhere for this debate to go. If it's an everyday boring aspect of their life, why is it so terrible for them to mention it? Surely, using your criteria, it should be no more offensive than someone called ManUtd4EVA or IlovePIZZA. And let's not pretend that this is an issue regardless of gender. Society, as a whole, gets way more uptight and weird about even the most innocent aspects of homosexuality, largely because - as has been pointed out - we can't separate sexuality from the sex act. A gay man who has never had sex with another man is still gay. Generally speaking, in these sorts of arguments, heterosexual males spend more time talking and fretting about explicit gay sex acts than any gay person ever will. |
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Unclebenny
15/05/08 @ 13:45
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"Is your sexual orientation an interesting aspect of you that you would like to show the world in a gamertag? "
Why shouldn't it be? As Dan said earlier, the gay community is in a minority. Therefore it seems reasonable that an interesting aspect of their personality would be they are both gay and a gamer, as the two sterotypes dont fit together too well. This therefore makes for an interesting point. "I see an inappropriate gamertag and stated my reasoning. Prehaps you, and everyone else who thinks he's being unfairly treated, assume that he is not trying to make a big deal out of it." I don't agree that its inappropiate but I've already stated my reasoning for thsi. Perhaps we are all assuming too much but the fact remains you want his name removed irrespective of what he is like as while on live. You just find the word gay inappropiate. (correct me if I'm worng). This is my problem with this debate. If we continually treat the word gay as a "sex word" that should only be uttered by naughty children and stupid offesnive teenagers the gay community is marginalised through no fault of its own. II imagine most parents will explain sex to their children when they inevitably ask, why must gay relationships be any different? Much better the parent explains the subject in a balanced sensible way than for a mish- mash of definitions be picked up on the playground and over xbox live. Also can any of these parents who dont want their children seeing and hearing bad thing sover xbox live please confirm what their children are playing? Is its COD4 and halo 3 then we have a problem right there. Even with supervision although that is much better than without. |
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DanWhitehead
15/05/08 @ 13:55
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OK, I agree with most of that but are you suggesting that all names should be allowed on XBL or is it that you *personally* don't have a problem with name tags relating to sexuality?
I certainly don't condone the idea that any name should be allowed. Abusive names or explicit names should certainly be moderated. It's just that I don't think the use of the word "gay" makes something sexual or offensive or explicit. Like I said earlier, if the Gamertag in question was something like CraveCocks or he had a motto that promoted his love of teabagging hairy gentlemen, then I'd have no problem at all with Microsoft censoring that. It's this notion that simply saying "I'm gay" is some sort of overtly sexual statement, rather than a personal one, that I don't get. If I say I prefer brunettes, is that an outrageous utterance that would be inappropriate in a public forum? Does it immediately conjure up a mental image of me straining away on top of a brown-haired lady, my pale buttocks undulating like two VW Beetles trying to reverse around each other? No. Or, at least, I hope not. Because we've long since been able to disconnect the concept of straight sexuality from the act itself. We can talk about hetero relationships without immediately thinking of the sex acts that go with it. And yet, for some reason, the minute homosexuality rears its fabulous head all thoughts apparently turn to graphic imaginings of the foul, depraved bedroom antics they must get up to. Which is a bit silly, really. Like I said, for every gay person I've ever known, they've been able to talk about their relationships in the same way as me. It's only straight males (and, let's face it, it's almost always the boys) who automatically equate the three-letter "gay" bomb with visions of enormous engorged cocks thrusting into scary places. Basically, we all need to grow up a bit and realise that homosexuality exists, it has always existed, and the current weird taboo surrounding it is an out-dated social construct purposefully encouraged by foolish puritanical tyrants. There's absolutely no logical reason why homosexuality should be an issue in the 21st century. |
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@DanWhitehead
"...so why is it so awful for them to learn that sometimes people of the same gender do the same? The more kids learn that it's not a big deal, the less of a big deal it becomes. Because, unless you're a die-hard religious nut, it really isn't a big deal. It's just a fact of life." I think I love you. :) |
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Madafunkola
15/05/08 @ 14:10
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"There's absolutely no logical reason why homosexuality should be an issue in the 21st century. "
DanWhitehead for President... No, strike that, DanWhitehead for POPE! |
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@DanW
Just a thanks and a thumbs up from me Dan who - as a gay 36 year old man - at times can't be bothered to respond to this thread in the eloquent manner you have. I just don't have the energy anymore to get into this debate when so many people display such a basic lack of understanding on how being part of a minority works.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 15/05/08 @ 15:29
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bigbadbeasty
15/05/08 @ 14:33
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I completely agree DanW. A perfect post that should hopefully silence some of the ridiculous posts in this thread.
And lets face it they never would have banned the GamerTag 'iLoveGirls' or anything similar. It saddens me that issues such as this are even raised anymore. |
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DanWhitehead
15/05/08 @ 14:39
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And with that, it's over to Colin Popshed for Gay Desk...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpfVeMp_UKM |
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DanWhitehead
15/05/08 @ 14:56
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"Pear of Anguish" was actually a Victorian term for a ladies hoo-ha.
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PearOfAnguish
15/05/08 @ 15:03
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Are you sure? It was also the name for a particularly nasty torture device, I can't imagine the Victorians naming a ladies bits after that.
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most recently on 15/05/08 @ 16:04
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stuarty_2003
15/05/08 @ 15:05
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I'd like to point out that my 2nd gamertag, WankersChalice, has not been banned. For when you're batting one out and don't have a cum rag, use your hand.
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Unclebenny
15/05/08 @ 15:27
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Razorus- I refer you to the rest of this thread. Read. learn. Come back with something different.
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TRACTORBOY1971
15/05/08 @ 15:36
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I am sorry, but that gamertag should not have been removed. I play on-line with my 6 year old son (mainly Halo, and he often wins), please no comments "why are you letting you 6 year old son play Halo", he can't play certain levels, I wont let him, but he plays on-line, with voice chat muted, due to people shouting obsenities, but he always plays on-line with me.
My Son also knows that sometimes men love men and women love women, that does not make them any different to him or anyone else, he knows this because he was watching some soap, and there were 2 men getting married, he asked the questions and I explained. "theGAYERgamer", is not offensive, it is only offensive if you are against homosexuality, if you are, then you need to live in these times, not back in the 20's. I am an massive fan of Ipswich Town FC ( please no comments), and if a gamer had the tag "canaryGamer", I could say that offends me, because I don't like anything to do with Norwich City FC. but that would be stupid, exactly the same is said with the mentioned gamer tag, it is PC GONE MAD |
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TRACTORBOY1971
15/05/08 @ 15:46
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@ Kryon
I could make loads of comments about that, but I might offend some people in Norfolk |
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@ miiiguel
That's pretty old news... After protests, Blizzard agreed that there was no harm in a GLBT friendly guild: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/47... Let's hope Microsoft come to their senses as well. |
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TRACTORBOY1971
15/05/08 @ 15:59
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@ Vanmunt
Are you the other one, the one that sits in Churchmans (Sorry south stand) |
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cyber_nicco
15/05/08 @ 16:01
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I have complained about tow gamertags since being online, and although I didn't look for them again, I would assume they were banned. Mostly racist stuff.
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It's a difficult subject. I mean, some comunities pratices incest, it's not illegal in countries like France or Germany (and England as well, I think), between two adults, but what would you think if you saw a GT "TheIncestGamer" ?
What I mean is, it doesn't shock me at all if they keep sex out of Live. It doesn't bother me the other way too... multiple-edit: even crapier english...
Edited 3 times,
most recently on 15/05/08 @ 17:10
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TRACTORBOY1971
15/05/08 @ 16:09
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@ miiiguel
It is illegal in this country - incest that is, I beleive it is practised in Norfolk though, thats according to some ipswich town fans - only joking |
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No mate, I'm not. What I'm saying is, that as a member of society I can understand that there are people, due to religion, or personal beliefs who can think that way. And who am I to judge ? So, keep any sexual references out of Live (ludic networks) might be the way to go.
I just came across an interview of a 2 half-brothers that love each other, and moved from Scotland to France because they want to live together, and... you know. What right do I have to say that a gay couple is ok, but this couple is not ok? http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Scots-... For me they are both ok. But I can understand that for some people it might be not (it seems for you that the Scot couple is not ok...). We don't live alone.
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most recently on 15/05/08 @ 17:22
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NewbieZilla
15/05/08 @ 16:32
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My opinion on his chosen gamertag is it is perfect if he wants to be the recipient of abuse. But, hey, this is xbox live we are talking about - any gamertag is fair game. If I knew the chap, I'd be advising against it for that reason alone. Don't think its worth banning him over. That said, they say they are very strict on gamertags... Well, if that were the case, they ought to prioritize the names that are far worse than this example.
So, MS want a change of gamertag before they allow users with names they don't allow to something they will allow. I would hope that, them being the ones with the problem, that they would do this change of name for these people for free. It'd be sickening to think them actually forcing people to change names, and still charge the 800 points for the "privilige". |
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DanWhitehead
15/05/08 @ 16:32
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Homosexuality is in no way comparable to incest. That's like saying we should ban french kissing because rape is against the law.
For one thing, homosexuality isn't something people choose to do. It's something people just are, whether because of nature, nurture or some mixture of the two. Incest is a specific thing between two members of the same family. It's a horrible, lazy comparison and the only way it would work is if there was a large community of "incestualists" who are only attracted to their own relatives. The closest comparison to homosexuality is heterosexuality. That's the only one you need. |
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Unclebenny
15/05/08 @ 16:39
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Incest is a little bit different (not getting off topic too much). As an couple who are related can produce genetically damged children (not in your example obv) who at best could have increased risk of genetic diseases and at worst could have serious mental difficulties. If incest is kept in the family (as it were/ no pun intended) and the children get involved in the same sort of thing then it only gets worse. So the children will suffer, which is why it is ileagal, I imagine. Although I'm not sure.
I take your point though. How are we supposed to be sitting on our arses in our computer chairs judging these people? Maybe we should just say that anything that is insulting or graphic should be removed? Not descriptive words. Not incest/gay/straight/bisexual etc. |
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My english is kinda poor, so I can't really express myself clearly. What I tried to say, was, and using the interview from with the scot chick, is that I couldn't care less if the two half-brothers love each other and want to live happy ever after. Same with gay couples or the Mormon communities (the ones with lots of wifes and stuff...), bisexuals, zoofiles or whatever. And I am not comparing!
But..., what doesn't "offend" me might "offend" other people (Ratzinger and minions come to mind if he play Live...). And I don't have the power to judge neither, nor I want to. |
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NewbieZilla
15/05/08 @ 16:43
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I think Xbox Live needs a true block button, as opposed to the non-functioning "avoid player".
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redgiemental
15/05/08 @ 16:45
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I just want to give DanW a round of applause from me
thank you for your time |
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login_name
15/05/08 @ 16:50
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@DanWhitehead
Seems to me that you are making this more about the sexual orientation of the player. Why is that such a big deal to you? I don't know if this guy is gay or not (though I assume he is) but I personally think it's irrelevant. His tag can be and obviously has been viewed as a sexual reference and that is against Microsoft's naming policy. Whether homosexual or heterosexual in content, if you want to skirt the naming rules be prepared to face the consequences. Let us not make this a bigger issue than it really is, a naming violation on a video game console. I've heard of far more obscure names being banned, are you gonna campaign for them too, or is it only the minorities you get your knickers in a twist over? So please, step down from your soap box and save it for when it's necessary. |
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