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Most criticism of religion in Spore is from "militant atheists", claims Wright News
PC DS News by Johnny Minkley
As a simulation of evolution from single-cell organism to space-faring civilisation, Will Wright feared his latest creation, Spore, would draw criticism from religious groups. But so far, the game's creator has revealed, the portrayal of religion in the game has only drawn the ire of angry non-believers.
Wright told Eurogamer: "I think our bigger fear was that we didn't want to offend any religious people; but looking at the discussion that unfolded from this thing, what we had was a good, sizeable group of players that we might call militant atheists, and the rest of the players seemed very tolerant, including all of the religious players."
Life in Spore is created according to the theory of panspermia - which hypothesises that it has been seeded on Earth from elsewhere in the universe. But it's the mere presence of religion in the game's civilisation stage that has raised hackles amongst some in the gaming community.
"I didn't expect to hit hot buttons on the atheist side as much; I expected it on the religious side," Wright revealed. "But so far I've had no critical feedback at all from anybody who is religious feeling that we were misrepresenting religion or it was bad to represent religion in the game. It was really the atheists."
He added that early objections from team members enabled the studio to iron out any potential areas of conflict early on.
"We have a number of team members that are pretty religious," he continued. "And so in design, on the team, in our small, little microcosm of players out there, we tried our best to make sure we weren't overtly offending any religious people, but yet we wanted to include the idea, the concept of religion in the game."
Wright, however, who described himself as an "atheist", insisted that with Spore he was not trying to pronounce on the issue one way or the other:
"We didn't want to go too far down that path: we leave the whole creation of the universe question open," he said. "Obviously as the player you're coming in and playing something like a god, directing the evolution of a species, but we never really state who you the player are."
Spore is due out on PC and DS on 5th September. You can read the full interview with Wright on Eurogamer today.
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Comments: 1-47 of 47 in total
Poster
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I'm an atheist, and you know what? I really, really don't care! Believe what you want to. As for this? It's a fucking game. FF7 had more than a few spiritual and religious overtones. Many games still resort to God vs Devil. It's a game, i.e. fiction. Of course they're going to use what devices there are out there to tell a story!
Don't let a bunch of tossers dictate the view, as the majority of us I'd wager couldn't give a rats ass! Only bell-ends of the highest order go around preaching to others what they should believe and how things should be.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 11/08/08 @ 14:46
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Amazing Bryan
11/08/08 @ 14:09
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At least Atheists don't have to kill other Atheists to prove their belief in no God.
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I remember reading somewhere (think it was a Discworld book) that gods didn't mind atheists, something about believing in being an atheist so much that they were just as religious as true believers (or summit. I'm misquoting terribly here but hopefully you get the point).
Having played all manner of games involving religion in some way, watching and enjoying plenty of films with plenty of religious overtones and using more than a few blasphemous words it somehow doesn't affect or offend my atheism/humanism or vice versa. As Kami said, basically what we have here are wankers who have sadly discovered the internet (or are a product of the internet - you decide). You get wanker believers, non-believers, gamers, mothers-against-gamers, smokers, non smokers, non drinkers & drinkers, Paris Hilton, Paris-France, Matthew Paris, journalists, bloggers, smoggers & crusties. I could go on. Basically what we have are humans. So this story is in essence "Some humans were wankers today." Long winded way of saying its a non story based on possibly some lame attempt to stir up page hits on the game that Eurogamer are promoting this week. Treat it with the contempt that it deserves. |
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Shrui, couldn't agree more. Besides, it's very hard to avooid religion in fiction in many ways - the vampire mythos, for example, people forget that there's an awful lot of Christian imagery and overtone in the legend. Devils and demons have to be the opposite of something good and virtuous. Even evil villains proclaiming they will be gods and being foiled by righteous young upstarts. Religion is unavoidable, if you're offended by it then go live under a rock in the middle of the Atakami Desert.
But do that and you miss some truly amazing things. Stigmata, for me, ranks as one of the finest films ever made because it's so powerful and addresses so many issues between atheism and religion. It's always going to be hard to not overegg a comment like this. But in doing so, you make a small minority speak wrongly for the entire community. If he, or you, had said "small number of militant atheists", I'd aassume that's more accurate. But there is no distinction and to be honest, if it is a sizable chunk of people being cocks, why not give them the size 10 boot up the ass and ban their stupidity? In legendary WoW terms... /golfclap
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most recently on 11/08/08 @ 15:29
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ligurmatic
11/08/08 @ 14:32
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Is there a similar vein of snobbery directed towards Civilization? I'm not an athiest*, but I play one on the computer!
* Not strictly true. |
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Not entirely true Darren. Panspermianism is still a belief that life on our planet has come from another, and as such is a belief that there is more intelligent life out there than us. In that sense, it is arguable that the intelligent life out there are our "gods". But I don't think that case is argued much.
The issue here is if these people are being vocal and being twats, (a) why are they playing it and (b) could they kindly go jump in front of a moving vehicle aas soon as possible so we can cleanse our world of such utter stupidity! Oh and (c) why arent they being banned or told in blunt terms to go stick sharp pointy objects in delicate recesses of their body? It's just utterly nonsensical. It makes no sense why an atheist should object more than any religion or faith. I suspect this was always intended to be a cynical headline-grabber and nothing more, and sadly EG bought into it. Again... /golfclap edit; I'd be equally as enraged if Will Wright had pointed the finger at any other religious group. But because atheists can't really fight back under discriminatory laws, easy targets I assume. *sigh* /golfclap, Mr Wright. /golfclap.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 11/08/08 @ 15:43
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Sorry for deleting my post, Kami, but I felt I went off topic a bit after the bit where I said I thought that atheists, being believers in science (as I am), would approve of Spore's evolution based gameplay, although I suppose the concept that you're the one pulling the strings makes you a god effectively.
Pah! Personally I see Spore as nothing more than a game, an off-shoot of the God Sims that gained popularity in the 1990s with games like Populous and Sim City (did atheists criticise those I wonder?). I really don't see why ANYONE would get upset over it unless they object to videogames in the first place. |
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Heh, it's okay Darren.
As I think the general concensus is demonstrating, these "militant atheists" are nothing more than troublemaking cocks. We've had god-games and games, movies and songs with religious overtones for decades. From The Exorcist to Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, from Mary J. Blige to Joan Osborne (*sings* What if God Was one of us...), and from Final Fantasy 7 to World of Warcraft. Why aren't these twits being forcibly booted from the game for stirring shit? I think that's the real issue here. |
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kingnothing12
11/08/08 @ 15:13
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Science damn you! it's allied atheist alliance and will wright does not know the answer to the GREAT QUESTION!
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richardtock
11/08/08 @ 15:27
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" Hitler WAS an atheist. "
I'm pretty sure he was a catholic, actually. NOT THAT IT ACTUALLY MATTERS. |
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"Panspermianism is still a belief that life on our planet has come from another, and as such is a belief that there is more intelligent life out there than us. In that sense, it is arguable that the intelligent life out there are our "gods". But I don't think that case is argued much."
Panspermia doesn't have to depend on "intelligent" agents though does it? It's perfectly compatible with single-cell lifeforms evolving on one or many planets then spreading via various non-intelligent means (I dunno, asteroid strikes, meteors etc?) as far as I understand it. Unless I'm thinking of something else. |
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Panspermia doesn't have to depend on "intelligent" agents though does it? It's perfectly compatible with single-cell lifeforms evolving on one or many planets then spreading via various non-intelligent means (I dunno, asteroid strikes, meteors etc?) as far as I understand it. Unless I'm thinking of something else.
yeah i was just about to say the same. most realistic proponents of panspermia theory reckon it's more like spores/bacteria/microbes travelling on meteorites. it's only the wackier end of the theorists that make any claims of intelligent beings visiting our world and 'seeding' it... and i find it pretty unsurprising that it's the militant atheists that are the ones moaning, from my experience most atheists are every bit as dogmatic as the religious people they're railing against...
Edited 2 times,
most recently on 11/08/08 @ 18:01
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schachmatt
11/08/08 @ 15:54
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When Wright says "I think our bigger fear was that we didn't want to offend any religious people" he obviously designed the game with this fear in mind.
And even afterwards he's still so fearful he thinks he has to appease them. |
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kangarootoo
11/08/08 @ 16:10
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I also agree that militant aetheists are proper nob heads. I think I used to be one, when I was about 17. God I was probably well annoying. Needless to say I'm not one anymore. I am still an aetheist, but I kind of realised two things.
1. Aetheism is a religion like any other, and is based on beliefs. I know some people disagree, citing that empirical evidence is beyond belief. They are wrong. 2. Militant people that preach to others are just downright annoying. Doesn't matter what they are preaching, even if they are right, even if they are doing it for good and sounds reasons, they are annoying. Just look at Richard Dawkins for an example; even writing his name is making me annoyed. A grumpy teenager trapped in an old man's body (ooer) if ever I saw one. There is probably a drop or two of irony contained within the above post. Ah well. |
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kangarootoo
11/08/08 @ 16:11
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"Invert this and add a load more straw for your man, and you've got the God Delusion!"
Am I the only one who has no idea what that means? |
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kangarootoo
11/08/08 @ 16:17
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"And even afterwards he's still so fearful he thinks he has to appease them"
Well, he could also just be making conversation. |
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Richarddawkinslol.
Seriously though, this hardly constitutes news. I suspect Wright released this inconsequential tidbit of gossip to stir up a little controversy ahead of the game's release. No Will, we haven't forgotten about Spore. And yes, vocal militant *anything* are always annoying and almost invariably idiots. |
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I dont know, this term 'militant atheist' reminds me of that line in Austin Powers when Dr Evil introduces Frough howbrisner (spelling?) as the 'leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army'.
I am not denying that that is a certain brand of atheism that somehow turns the lack of a belief into a positive belief set and who are as evangelical in their beliefs as those they argue against. I just think 'militant' is a crap description for them because they do absolutely nothing that resembles militancy. They are the philisophical equivlant of Six Form politics Atheists who are complaining about this game are idiots and if certain members of the religious community were offended by this game as well, they would be idiots too. What annoys me though is that although religious complaints could be just as spurious, they would be given a lot more credence. That just irks the secularist in me. |
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John_the_Fisherman
12/08/08 @ 00:24
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Kangarootoo, "Atheism is a religion like any other, and is based on beliefs. I know some people disagree, citing that empirical evidence is beyond belief. They are wrong."
What beliefs? Belief in what? When did faith in facts become necessary? So you're an atheist who thinks all atheists who don't think atheism is a religion are wrong? You're not a very good atheist, then. Evidence is beyond belief? You're not going to float off the Earth if you stop believing in gravity mate. You don't 'believe' facts. |
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John_the_Fisherman
I kind of agree, the whole 'atheism is just another religion' equivlancy arguement is a little disingenuous because atheism is no more a religion than not playing golf is a sport. However, some atheists are so anti-theistic they are just as dogmatic and intolerant as the religous funamentalism they rail against. |
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Hitler was a catholic with a jewish grandmother, iirc, who grew up in anti-semitic Austria, so you could say he grew up learning to hate a part of himself.
Anyway, back on topic - I think that any atheist backlash against Spore is quite easy to explain: a game based on the theory of natural selection, the key theory of the atheist, then including religion at the "civilised" stage. Its like creating a game based on the teachings of the bible while inserting the small fact that we were all started out as monkeys. Imagine the backlash over that! What really worries me is that one of the worlds leading game designers feels he has to change the design of his game because it risks annoying one group of people. Why? What happened to creative freedom? Or at least the feeling that your creative freedom would be protected? It sounds to me like the idiots have taken over the asylum and we are all the losers. |
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