MMOs "need to be on consoles" - Turbine

By Oli Welsh Published 10 October, 2008

Not necessarily cross-platform, though.

Turbine chief executive Jim Crowley has said that his company isn't just interested in developing MMOs for consoles - he thinks it's vital.

Speaking at the Tokyo Game Show Forum, Crowley said, "The MMO needs to become a multi-platform tool. The view of Turbine is that MMOs necessarily need to be on consoles."

Turbine is known to be working on a console MMO at the moment, strongly suspected to be a version of Lord of the Rings Online.

Crowley's vision is of MMOs running simultaneously on PC, PS3, Xbox 360 and "eventually" on Wii. However, although these versions will "speak to" each other, he thinks cross-platform play will be difficult, and perhaps unnecessary.

"There are uniquenesses to each platform that suggest that the actual gameplay needs to be optimised for each platform," Crowley said.

"So cross-platform play becomes a challenge. It's not clear to us that cross-platform play is necessary, or even desirable."

Instead, Crowley envisages that the different versions of MMOs will be connected by a social networking "layer" on the web - such as the Facebook-style LOTRO site, due to launch this year, that he showed in his presentation.

"The social network then becomes that 'glue spot' where all players can share that experience," he said.

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

You may also like...

Comments (31) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • jack_klugman #1 3 years ago

    No, they just need to be cheaper, more appealing to demographics wider than the elves and aliens set and they need to scale well across a broad range of PCs.

  • agparrot #2 3 years ago

    I'd sort of Love to play Eve on my 360, or a mildly console-ified version of it, but I'm afraid that I balk at the prospect of paying quite so much money for it monthly.

    Because, yes, I am a skinflint cheapskate.

    The infrastructures for MMOs are largely there, aren't they, with Live and the PSN? Perhaps Sony's upcoming Spy-game MMO, the name of which escapes me, will be an interesting proving ground.

  • Dizzy #3 3 years ago

    I think what he means is that you can play the same char on different machines, depending on your mood and location.

    So play LOTRO on your PC and later, if you want, log on the same character on your 360 and play from couch.

  • nickthegun #4 3 years ago

    They do need to be cross console.

    Format War Retard Guild Battle would be epic. PS3 HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

  • jack_klugman #5 3 years ago

    A true platform neutral MMO would be lovely. One where I can progress whether I'm logged in on my PC, my home console, or any other net-enabled device such as a mobile phone. But how you'd scale gameplay over such a broad range of specifications and keep the experience appealing and rewarding for each I do not know.

  • Toothball #6 3 years ago

    @agparrot

    The infrastructures for MMOs are largely there, aren't they, with Live and the PSN? Perhaps Sony's upcoming Spy-game MMO, the name of which escapes me, will be an interesting proving ground.

    The way each network implements its various features may be a sticking point. In Phantasy Star Universe, PC and PS2 players run on the same server, but the Xbox players are separate. Apparently this is mainly due to integrating Live features like Gamertag displays, Voice chat and billing through Marketplace. Perhaps they can be overcome at some point.

  • iokthemonkey #7 3 years ago

    No they don't 'need' to be on consoles at all. Dunno where he plucked that baseless belief from.

    ----

    "Need" is subjective, sure, but c'mon, why limit your possibilities for sales? Regardless of how people might try to dress it up, the games industry is based on sales, not artistic merit or critical response. So the more avenues for sales, the better. After all, more income = more funding to continue supporting the game across EVERY platform, PC included.

  • kangarootoo #8 3 years ago

    He speaks the truth.


    "No they don't 'need' to be on consoles at all. Dunno where he plucked that baseless belief from."

    From a base of understanding the games industry. He is speaking from a business point of view. And he is quite right. I'm not sure he is suggesting that mmo devs should pull out of PC gaming (that would be unwise at this point), but expanding onto consoles is vital if more than a small handful of companies expect to be able to run a successful and profitable mmo.

  • Nameless-001 #9 3 years ago

    I can only hope they'll spend millions on their idiotic project and then lose ridiculous amount of money for the horrible implementation, gameplay and balance. With no one playing it after a few months.

    @agparrot: eve on a console? Are u completely crazy?

  • kangarootoo #10 3 years ago

    @Nameless-001

    Why would any balanced individual hope such a thing?

  • ThePissartist #11 3 years ago

    This generation of consoles have sold getting on for 100 million machines between the three of them, so far only very minor MMOs have been released (FF for 360). Jim Crowley works for a company that, according to their website: “Turbine's Game Platform maximizes immersion through its massive, scalable, virtual worlds”.

    Jim suggests that MMOs "need to be on consoles" – of course he does!! What a load of PR bullshit.

  • mikeck #12 3 years ago

    Is it just me, but how would MMO's work on a console - in terms of the amount of skills used in MMO's?

    For example - playing a tank class in an MMO (WoW especially) requires lots of hot keys, mouse mapping and mods to do the job to a high standard - the amount of skills is staggering. This also applies to every class within MMO's - just from experience playing a tank requires a lot of key spamming. It would be good to have the chance to play a MMO on a console, but I'm not sure how skills could be mapped in a sufficient way?

    Perhaps hold one of the face/should buttons to bring up a separate HUD which you could then scroll through and click, but each time takes a few seconds, and MMO's rely on a lot of key spamming...

  • paulf #13 3 years ago

    whether they 'need' to be or not, if they were good then I wouldn't complain, i much prefer lounging on the couch to play my games than sitting forward next to a pc, be interesting to see how they handle all the different button presses on a console though

  • iokthemonkey #14 3 years ago

    Perhaps hold one of the face/should buttons to bring up a separate HUD which you could then scroll through and click, but each time takes a few seconds, and MMO's rely on a lot of key spamming...

    ----

    I'd presume there'd be some kind of "shift button" stuff going on. So the Right Thumbstick could offer 8 possible options, with another 8 when you hold the Right Trigger, for example. But yeah, it is a challenge.

  • mikeck #15 3 years ago

    "I'd presume there'd be some kind of "shift button" stuff going on. So the Right Thumbstick could offer 8 possible options, with another 8 when you hold the Right Trigger, for example. But yeah, it is a challenge. "

    That's another option yeah. It'll be a challenge, but it's not something that couldn't be tackled in a convincing way. I suppose many people who play MMO's would continue to do so on the PC so key mapping may not be an issue, however, if an MMO came out that was console only, that would be tricky to get used to.

  • kangarootoo #16 3 years ago

    @mikeck

    We often look at existing PC mmos and wonder how they might be ported directly to a console, but I think that is too limiting an approach.

    If a competent dev decides to release an mmo on a console, they will build that mmo with the target platform in mind. Equally if someone ports an existing mmo to a console, we would expect (if they know what they are about) them to make changes to the control system so that the game still plays well.

    No doubt some would level accusations of dumbing down, should a known mmo brand turn up on a console, but my response to that would as always probably be something acerbic like "Oh stop whining, if its fun, who gives a f*ck".

    People who love mmos should be open to new ideas that will allow their chosen genre to improve, expand and (most importantly) continue to thrive. It strike me that of all the various factors that go into making a fun game, the platform on which it is played is the least important.

  • ThePissartist #17 3 years ago

    Please no MMOs on consoles. Did nobody see the Halo MMO concept art?!

    If it's a game that has massive battles and plays like COD, then fine. I just really don't want to see the traditional MMO that mikeck describes.

    Microsoft/Sony/Mintendo: DON'T DO IT! PLEASE!

  • TriggerHippie #18 3 years ago

    Usb keyboard....its how the other MMOs that i've played on consoles have gotten by.
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/08 @ 12:53

  • skillian #19 3 years ago

    If they could do it without simplifying the games, then I'd say sure, why not? More fun for everyone.

    Trouble is whenever these type of more complicated, PC-centric games (MMO, RTS etc.) get developed on consoles, they are nearly always made more simple and more accessible (I'm trying not to use the phrase dumbed-down here). And then of course every version , whatever platform, follows along as they are all dragged down to match teh lowest common denominator.

    So MMOs on the console would be good for the "games industry" no doubt, but I suspect it'll be bad news for everyone that currently enjoys playing that type of game.

    edit: Kangarootoo, you'd written your response before I'd written this, but I guess your response of "Who gives a fuck?" has already addressed my concerns.
    Edited by 2 at 10/10/08 @ 12:56

  • mikeck #20 3 years ago

    @kanga'

    "No doubt some would level accusations of dumbing down, should a known mmo brand turn up on a console, but my response to that would as always probably be something acerbic like "Oh stop whining, if its fun, who gives a f*ck".

    People who love mmos should be open to new ideas that will allow their chosen genre to improve, expand and (most importantly) continue to thrive. It strike me that of all the various factors that go into making a fun game, the platform on which it is played is the least important."

    Here, here. I totally agree. I would be very interested to play a console based MMO, I mean I was loving the pseudo-RPG aspects of Too Human and wishing something like that could be created on a grander scale - then WAR came out, and I've been smiting the Order ever since, and hence my thoughts of console MMO's disappeared.

    You're right in saying a dev would focus on making an MMO specific to the console rather than ported from PC, my only concern was how to get used to a new style of playing, rather than spamming hot keys for your skills (WoW at least let me map spam skills to the mouse scroll wheel - via mods if I remember correctly) but whilst WAR does not do this, it's not an issue in the slightest. I have faith a dev would make the skill usage very intuitive on a console, it's just getting my head away from a now imbedded play style :D
    Edited by 2 at 10/10/08 @ 13:11

  • SpyroViper #21 3 years ago

    I would never play an MMO on a console. How would you be able to navigate a skill tree, assign professions, build up your standings with other factions and manage guilds, raid groups, raid carriers, gold deposits, guild banking, and web based forums on a console.

    And don't say dumbed down, if those things arn't in there, then it's not an MMO. It's an MMO for CHILDREN.

  • Xerx3s #22 3 years ago

    I don't see how you could effectively do a mmo on the wii with the current system.

  • Xerx3s #23 3 years ago

    "Format War Retard Guild Battle would be epic. PS3 HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! "

    That would be awesome! Taking the fanboy wars to a new level by actually raiding a ps3 village or 360 outpost! :D

  • mikeck #24 3 years ago

    ""Format War Retard Guild Battle would be epic. PS3 HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! "

    That would be awesome! Taking the fanboy wars to a new level by actually raiding a ps3 village or 360 outpost! :D "

    Awesome :D

    What about those of us who have more than one console...do we have to pick sides? Hmmm how to choose a side...

  • rudedudejude #25 3 years ago

    MMO's on console market = $$ $$ Lots of rich companies $$ $$

  • kangarootoo #26 3 years ago

    "Please no MMOs on consoles. Did nobody see the Halo MMO concept art"

    Massive strawman.

    "I would never play an MMO on a console. How would you be able to navigate a skill tree, assign professions, build up your standings with other factions and manage guilds, raid groups, raid carriers, gold deposits, guild banking, and web based forums on a console."

    A well designed user interface could still allow all of those things. Really, we just keep returning to this idea that the only way to control a lot of functions is with a lot of buttons. That utterly ignores the discipline of good interface and control design. I've played some PC games with awfully designed interfaces, and 105 buttons on the keyboard didn't help them one bit. I've also played console games that were pretty complex, which managed to keep everything in hand by the application of good ol' shithot control system design.

    As has been mentioned, you could even make an mmo for a console that came with the tag "keyboard recommended". Maybe someone will pipe up at this point and say that a console with a keyboard is a PC, utterly missing the point that a console is ALREADY a PC without a keyboard. Nobody would try and suggest the ZX Spectrum is a better platform for an mmo than the PS3, just 'cos it has more keys (bad analogy, I know, but it makes a point of sorts).

    We get too bogged down in the unimportant stuff. All I want is games that are fun to play. I don't hold the same mad "if its not got 5 different guns its not a TRUE fps shooter" principles as some. I just want fun games, and original games, and a degree of competition between the devs of various games.

    One thing is true. The current mmo situation, with only a few companies able to maintain their position, is harmful to mmos. You pretty much have WoW, plus a handful of others that are scraping by. This is not good for gamers who like mmos. WoW addicts might not mind, but heroin addicts rarely care about the availability of cocaine either.

  • Eiko-UK #27 3 years ago

    "The MMO needs to become a multi-platform tool"
    This didn't work for Final Fantasy XI on Xbox 360. It is slow and full of glitches.
    MMO's need to be waay better than that if they want to survive.

  • haldier #28 3 years ago

    Or is M$ paying him to say that it may not be cross platform, they don´t like the extra bandwith. While Sony don´t care cause it isn´t them hosting the servers!

  • haldier #29 3 years ago

    I´d also buy EVE instantly if came out on console!!!

  • Silvervein #30 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    While I don't really care what hardware runs the game, I do have certain preferences when it comes to the type of gameplay offered.
    It might be just my impression, but console games put undue attention to colorful graphics and action at the expense of what makes games good: gameplay and story (Mind you, I can't stand manga, so I can't say much about final fantasy and similar games: they are just too weird to me). Nothing wrong with that if people enjoy it, but with copycat syndrome in the 'games industry' I fully expect to see what you can already see now in pc mmo's: wow got a lot of subscriptions, so most other games try to ape it to one degree or another. Look at warhammer online. It's wow with different paint and stress on pvp instead of raids. In the situation where console mmo gains large following, I expect its design choices would be aped by others, leading to creation of action rich, gameplay deficient games. Is that something to look forward to?
    There is also one more issue. Online games differ from single player ones in one aspect: player interaction. On pc, you can use keyboard for that. Or headset and chat client, although relatively few people use that. On console voice chat is the only option, which leaves people who might use consoles to play pc mmo a bit separated, in fact: playing almost single player game. Buying keyboard for console solves that, but then again, if you buy keyboard you can't really play from the couch, and besides...if you get keyboard for console, what was the point of buying console in the first place?
    Edited by 1 at 12/10/08 @ 11:02

  • Thrace #31 3 years ago

    First post here, so don't bother my opinion :D
    However, I'd like to share my opinion on console MMO's...

    I'm an avid MMO player, still yet to look for the right MMO. Played EVE, WoW, FFXI on PC, LotRO and some more. Hoeve, the gameplay, balance and setting of LotRO appealed the most to me. Downside to this MMO is that my PC can't really run the game, so I soon dropped out of it. Therefore, the recent rumours of LotRO being developed/ported to the 360 really sounds great to me, because i do own an X360.
    Reading all your posts about the controls of a MMO for a console and my own experience in PC MMO's, I do agree somehow that it would be a really pain in the ass for a nice console MMO controlescheme. This sparked my mind about console peripherals like the PS3 camera and the 360 camera. Entire games are released together with such camera's to focus sales and attention on these games.
    So why would Turbine try to make a good controlescheme for a regular 360 controller. My guess it is the best to focus marketing and advertising on a console version of LotRO, bundled TOGETHER with the 360 chatpad --> No hassle for a crappy control scheme, there are lots of buttons that can be used using a chatpad. Just bundle a 360 version of LotRO together with a chatpad. Easy enough for Turbine, nice profit for Microsoft. Still one issue left for Microsoft, release BLACK CHATPADS!!!