MMOs "need to be on consoles" - Turbine News

No, they just need to be cheaper, more appealing to demographics wider than the elves and aliens set and they need to scale well across a broad range of PCs.

I'd sort of Love to play Eve on my 360, or a mildly console-ified version of it, but I'm afraid that I balk at the prospect of paying quite so much money for it monthly.

Because, yes, I am a skinflint cheapskate.

The infrastructures for MMOs are largely there, aren't they, with Live and the PSN? Perhaps Sony's upcoming Spy-game MMO, the name of which escapes me, will be an interesting proving ground.

I think what he means is that you can play the same char on different machines, depending on your mood and location.

So play LOTRO on your PC and later, if you want, log on the same character on your 360 and play from couch.

They do need to be cross console.

Format War Retard Guild Battle would be epic. PS3 HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

No they don't 'need' to be on consoles at all. Dunno where he plucked that baseless belief from.

A true platform neutral MMO would be lovely. One where I can progress whether I'm logged in on my PC, my home console, or any other net-enabled device such as a mobile phone. But how you'd scale gameplay over such a broad range of specifications and keep the experience appealing and rewarding for each I do not know.

@agparrot

The infrastructures for MMOs are largely there, aren't they, with Live and the PSN? Perhaps Sony's upcoming Spy-game MMO, the name of which escapes me, will be an interesting proving ground.

The way each network implements its various features may be a sticking point. In Phantasy Star Universe, PC and PS2 players run on the same server, but the Xbox players are separate. Apparently this is mainly due to integrating Live features like Gamertag displays, Voice chat and billing through Marketplace. Perhaps they can be overcome at some point.

No they don't 'need' to be on consoles at all. Dunno where he plucked that baseless belief from.

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"Need" is subjective, sure, but c'mon, why limit your possibilities for sales? Regardless of how people might try to dress it up, the games industry is based on sales, not artistic merit or critical response. So the more avenues for sales, the better. After all, more income = more funding to continue supporting the game across EVERY platform, PC included.

He speaks the truth.


"No they don't 'need' to be on consoles at all. Dunno where he plucked that baseless belief from."

From a base of understanding the games industry. He is speaking from a business point of view. And he is quite right. I'm not sure he is suggesting that mmo devs should pull out of PC gaming (that would be unwise at this point), but expanding onto consoles is vital if more than a small handful of companies expect to be able to run a successful and profitable mmo.

I can only hope they'll spend millions on their idiotic project and then lose ridiculous amount of money for the horrible implementation, gameplay and balance. With no one playing it after a few months.

@agparrot: eve on a console? Are u completely crazy?

@Nameless-001

Why would any balanced individual hope such a thing?

This generation of consoles have sold getting on for 100 million machines between the three of them, so far only very minor MMOs have been released (FF for 360). Jim Crowley works for a company that, according to their website: “Turbine's Game Platform maximizes immersion through its massive, scalable, virtual worlds”.

Jim suggests that MMOs "need to be on consoles" – of course he does!! What a load of PR bullshit.

Is it just me, but how would MMO's work on a console - in terms of the amount of skills used in MMO's?

For example - playing a tank class in an MMO (WoW especially) requires lots of hot keys, mouse mapping and mods to do the job to a high standard - the amount of skills is staggering. This also applies to every class within MMO's - just from experience playing a tank requires a lot of key spamming. It would be good to have the chance to play a MMO on a console, but I'm not sure how skills could be mapped in a sufficient way?

Perhaps hold one of the face/should buttons to bring up a separate HUD which you could then scroll through and click, but each time takes a few seconds, and MMO's rely on a lot of key spamming...

whether they 'need' to be or not, if they were good then I wouldn't complain, i much prefer lounging on the couch to play my games than sitting forward next to a pc, be interesting to see how they handle all the different button presses on a console though

Perhaps hold one of the face/should buttons to bring up a separate HUD which you could then scroll through and click, but each time takes a few seconds, and MMO's rely on a lot of key spamming...

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I'd presume there'd be some kind of "shift button" stuff going on. So the Right Thumbstick could offer 8 possible options, with another 8 when you hold the Right Trigger, for example. But yeah, it is a challenge.

"I'd presume there'd be some kind of "shift button" stuff going on. So the Right Thumbstick could offer 8 possible options, with another 8 when you hold the Right Trigger, for example. But yeah, it is a challenge. "

That's another option yeah. It'll be a challenge, but it's not something that couldn't be tackled in a convincing way. I suppose many people who play MMO's would continue to do so on the PC so key mapping may not be an issue, however, if an MMO came out that was console only, that would be tricky to get used to.

@mikeck

We often look at existing PC mmos and wonder how they might be ported directly to a console, but I think that is too limiting an approach.

If a competent dev decides to release an mmo on a console, they will build that mmo with the target platform in mind. Equally if someone ports an existing mmo to a console, we would expect (if they know what they are about) them to make changes to the control system so that the game still plays well.

No doubt some would level accusations of dumbing down, should a known mmo brand turn up on a console, but my response to that would as always probably be something acerbic like "Oh stop whining, if its fun, who gives a f*ck".

People who love mmos should be open to new ideas that will allow their chosen genre to improve, expand and (most importantly) continue to thrive. It strike me that of all the various factors that go into making a fun game, the platform on which it is played is the least important.

Please no MMOs on consoles. Did nobody see the Halo MMO concept art?!

If it's a game that has massive battles and plays like COD, then fine. I just really don't want to see the traditional MMO that mikeck describes.

Microsoft/Sony/Mintendo: DON'T DO IT! PLEASE!

Usb keyboard....its how the other MMOs that i've played on consoles have gotten by.

If they could do it without simplifying the games, then I'd say sure, why not? More fun for everyone.

Trouble is whenever these type of more complicated, PC-centric games (MMO, RTS etc.) get developed on consoles, they are nearly always made more simple and more accessible (I'm trying not to use the phrase dumbed-down here). And then of course every version , whatever platform, follows along as they are all dragged down to match teh lowest common denominator.

So MMOs on the console would be good for the "games industry" no doubt, but I suspect it'll be bad news for everyone that currently enjoys playing that type of game.

edit: Kangarootoo, you'd written your response before I'd written this, but I guess your response of "Who gives a fuck?" has already addressed my concerns.

@kanga'

"No doubt some would level accusations of dumbing down, should a known mmo brand turn up on a console, but my response to that would as always probably be something acerbic like "Oh stop whining, if its fun, who gives a f*ck".

People who love mmos should be open to new ideas that will allow their chosen genre to improve, expand and (most importantly) continue to thrive. It strike me that of all the various factors that go into making a fun game, the platform on which it is played is the least important."

Here, here. I totally agree. I would be very interested to play a console based MMO, I mean I was loving the pseudo-RPG aspects of Too Human and wishing something like that could be created on a grander scale - then WAR came out, and I've been smiting the Order ever since, and hence my thoughts of console MMO's disappeared.

You're right in saying a dev would focus on making an MMO specific to the console rather than ported from PC, my only concern was how to get used to a new style of playing, rather than spamming hot keys for your skills (WoW at least let me map spam skills to the mouse scroll wheel - via mods if I remember correctly) but whilst WAR does not do this, it's not an issue in the slightest. I have faith a dev would make the skill usage very intuitive on a console, it's just getting my head away from a now imbedded play style :D

I would never play an MMO on a console. How would you be able to navigate a skill tree, assign professions, build up your standings with other factions and manage guilds, raid groups, raid carriers, gold deposits, guild banking, and web based forums on a console.

And don't say dumbed down, if those things arn't in there, then it's not an MMO. It's an MMO for CHILDREN.

I don't see how you could effectively do a mmo on the wii with the current system.

"Format War Retard Guild Battle would be epic. PS3 HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! "

That would be awesome! Taking the fanboy wars to a new level by actually raiding a ps3 village or 360 outpost! :D

""Format War Retard Guild Battle would be epic. PS3 HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! "

That would be awesome! Taking the fanboy wars to a new level by actually raiding a ps3 village or 360 outpost! :D "

Awesome :D

What about those of us who have more than one console...do we have to pick sides? Hmmm how to choose a side...

MMO's on console market = $$ $$ Lots of rich companies $$ $$

"Please no MMOs on consoles. Did nobody see the Halo MMO concept art"

Massive strawman.

"I would never play an MMO on a console. How would you be able to navigate a skill tree, assign professions, build up your standings with other factions and manage guilds, raid groups, raid carriers, gold deposits, guild banking, and web based forums on a console."

A well designed user interface could still allow all of those things. Really, we just keep returning to this idea that the only way to control a lot of functions is with a lot of buttons. That utterly ignores the discipline of good interface and control design. I've played some PC games with awfully designed interfaces, and 105 buttons on the keyboard didn't help them one bit. I've also played console games that were pretty complex, which managed to keep everything in hand by the application of good ol' shithot control system design.

As has been mentioned, you could even make an mmo for a console that came with the tag "keyboard recommended". Maybe someone will pipe up at this point and say that a console with a keyboard is a PC, utterly missing the point that a console is ALREADY a PC without a keyboard. Nobody would try and suggest the ZX Spectrum is a better platform for an mmo than the PS3, just 'cos it has more keys (bad analogy, I know, but it makes a point of sorts).

We get too bogged down in the unimportant stuff. All I want is games that are fun to play. I don't hold the same mad "if its not got 5 different guns its not a TRUE fps shooter" principles as some. I just want fun games, and original games, and a degree of competition between the devs of various games.

One thing is true. The current mmo situation, with only a few companies able to maintain their position, is harmful to mmos. You pretty much have WoW, plus a handful of others that are scraping by. This is not good for gamers who like mmos. WoW addicts might not mind, but heroin addicts rarely care about the availability of cocaine either.

"The MMO needs to become a multi-platform tool"
This didn't work for Final Fantasy XI on Xbox 360. It is slow and full of glitches.
MMO's need to be waay better than that if they want to survive.

Hmm where to start....Ok Final Fantasy XI. I played FF for well over 2 years on the 360, i know a lot of peeps hate the game and i also know a load of peeps who love it, granted its not for everybody it is BASTARD hard to get into and you do have to pay a sub to play although you can play it with a silver sub so that kinda cancels the " but i already pay for gold so...etc etc" contingent, FF is MULTI PLATFORM you play along side ps2 owners and pc owners and not once in my time on it have i had any "glitches" or server crashes yes it lags every now and then but thats par for the course of most mmo's, FF is a party game after lvl 10 your screwed (pretty much) unless you team up with other players that includes tanks dd's debuffers the works...Where am i going with this well lets just say i also played WoW for over 3 years and still play that and GW regulary and the comparative differences are miniscule, tanks work the same way as they do in WoW and GW and there is no problem at all with the 360 handling (or ps2 for the matter) the interfaces needed to control any of the above mentioned classes, in fact its a darn site harder too tank on FF than it is in WoW plus everything else from auction houses to crafting are also catered for, again crafting in FF is also more difficult than in WoW (now i come to think of it most of the things in FF are more difficult than in WoW :P).
MMo's should be made for the consoles, SE have proved that you can create a good UI on a console that rates up there along side the best of the rest...Did i also mention the awesome translation device that lets you talk to japanese german or french players etc ...Yes its not WoW or WAR or GW but it is a cross platform mmo and what is there works and it works well.

Or is M$ paying him to say that it may not be cross platform, they don´t like the extra bandwith. While Sony don´t care cause it isn´t them hosting the servers!

I´d also buy EVE instantly if came out on console!!!

@kangarootoo

While I don't really care what hardware runs the game, I do have certain preferences when it comes to the type of gameplay offered.
It might be just my impression, but console games put undue attention to colorful graphics and action at the expense of what makes games good: gameplay and story (Mind you, I can't stand manga, so I can't say much about final fantasy and similar games: they are just too weird to me). Nothing wrong with that if people enjoy it, but with copycat syndrome in the 'games industry' I fully expect to see what you can already see now in pc mmo's: wow got a lot of subscriptions, so most other games try to ape it to one degree or another. Look at warhammer online. It's wow with different paint and stress on pvp instead of raids. In the situation where console mmo gains large following, I expect its design choices would be aped by others, leading to creation of action rich, gameplay deficient games. Is that something to look forward to?
There is also one more issue. Online games differ from single player ones in one aspect: player interaction. On pc, you can use keyboard for that. Or headset and chat client, although relatively few people use that. On console voice chat is the only option, which leaves people who might use consoles to play pc mmo a bit separated, in fact: playing almost single player game. Buying keyboard for console solves that, but then again, if you buy keyboard you can't really play from the couch, and besides...if you get keyboard for console, what was the point of buying console in the first place?

@ Silvervein

Fair shout you make a few valid comments but i still fail to see the basis of your argument, i have to go back to FF (sigh) as it is the only mmo on 360 at the mo, communication ingame is no problem at all i use a keyboard which sits nicely on the edge of my sofa and is far more comfortable and just as easy to use as the one in front of my pc plus voice chat with other members on xbox live.

Now i do believe the new xbox facelift is gonna alllow up to 8 friends to talk at once over live (correct me if i'm wrong) and as majority of peeps who i play FF with are on live then obviously this a very good thing my guild on WoW has vent but there is never more than 5 or 6 people who use it out of 150 members (lame maybe but thats just the way it is).

As for graphics etc FF is very bland looking compared to the psychedelic horror show that is WoW and is quite a step away from what you may imagine is "Manga" looking, the storyline is up there with WoW and the endgame just as stupidly difficult, i really can not see why people seem to have this aversion to mmo's coming over to consoles (not you as you stated) the future of console gaming is gonna be more and more geared towards online play with your friends the new xbox dash makes that quite clear and mmo's are the perfect extension of that, i'm looking forward to AoC and TSW on the 360 (if they can iron out all the shit thats bugging the pc community :P) wether i will have enough time to play them is a different story.

First post here, so don't bother my opinion :D
However, I'd like to share my opinion on console MMO's...

I'm an avid MMO player, still yet to look for the right MMO. Played EVE, WoW, FFXI on PC, LotRO and some more. Hoeve, the gameplay, balance and setting of LotRO appealed the most to me. Downside to this MMO is that my PC can't really run the game, so I soon dropped out of it. Therefore, the recent rumours of LotRO being developed/ported to the 360 really sounds great to me, because i do own an X360.
Reading all your posts about the controls of a MMO for a console and my own experience in PC MMO's, I do agree somehow that it would be a really pain in the ass for a nice console MMO controlescheme. This sparked my mind about console peripherals like the PS3 camera and the 360 camera. Entire games are released together with such camera's to focus sales and attention on these games.
So why would Turbine try to make a good controlescheme for a regular 360 controller. My guess it is the best to focus marketing and advertising on a console version of LotRO, bundled TOGETHER with the 360 chatpad --> No hassle for a crappy control scheme, there are lots of buttons that can be used using a chatpad. Just bundle a 360 version of LotRO together with a chatpad. Easy enough for Turbine, nice profit for Microsoft. Still one issue left for Microsoft, release BLACK CHATPADS!!!