Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots Comments by Oli Welsh

@CunningLinguist
I personally didn't hate MGS3, I guess I was just dissapointed. It was my first go at the series, and I'm really not sure what I expected from the game. I knew nothing of the series, of the cutscenes and I don't think I even really knew what the gameplay was going to be like other than stealthy/shooter. I guess I may have been expecting something mildly more actioney, like splinter cell almost (sorry Frod).

Sex in game form.

zuljin: it's ok, frod was the first to mention it.

Wow, MGS4 sounds simply amazing! I wish I had a PS3 ...

@Skooch

I felt the same way. It was a bit too apologist in nature for me too, with stuff like...

"It's pointless and overlong but also a strangely spellbinding kind of downtime for player and writers alike"

and

"You have to subvert or repress many of your natural gaming instincts to safely negotiate its coldly exacting gameplay"

One of my natural gaming instincts is to want to feel like I am having fun playing the game. Will I need to surpress that instinct so I can "safely negotiate" its gameplay?

Having played and completed MGS1, 2 and 3. Having played portable ops and now the online beta (which shares it's controls with the main game). What the heck is this reviewer talking about. It's like the whole GTA 4 fiasco. Hype, Hype and more hype followed by (for me anyway) a same as always boring mission fest. Go here, kill them, go there, deliver that, drive bonm in van! (yes they really did recycle that exact same mission!!).

I've been fortunate enough to play this at various game developer events and it's not the amazing game your making it out to be, The action you've all seen in trailers are from cut scenes. The main game is STILL the slow stealth slog it always was. You can't do out and out battles because as any metal gear player knows, you just end up getting shot to pieces due to crap aiming and a non existent cover system.

I know most of what I say will fall on deaf ears but, at least I can say I tried to warn everyone before the misleading reviews start appearing and the hype machine moves into full swing.

@ penhalion - do you actually like any games? gta is always gonna be go here do that ('boring missions')- mgs is always gonna be stealth it up ('slow stealth slog') does that really matter though? you can boil down most games to similar mechanics, its the context that makes the game, and up to now both gta and mgs have created great context in which the gaming mechanics work

Sure hype exists but sometimes great games are there too, Oli could be hyping the game or he could just be genuinely excited about it

"Oli could be hyping the game or he could just be genuinely excited about it"

I'm sure it is both, which is fine.

"The main game is STILL the slow stealth slog it always was."

No shock there seeing as MGS is about stealth anyway, or was I playing it wrong then?

@paulf - Certainly not any PS games ;)

What's worse than over-long cutscenes for me? over-long cutscenes which you're meant to fiddle about with. :(

@Bad09

My point is that if you know metal gear then it simply hasn't changed from what we knew 10 years ago. I guess I can't get excited about the same creep, make noise, drug or render unconcious any gard that comes to investigate. you can't directly fight the new metal gears

Even this preview admits that to see any amazing graphics you need to be watching a cutscene i.e. the game looks great when the player isn't controlling it. A lot of people didn't take to MGS because it's a boring game to play. It preaches at you constantly about the horrors and futility of war. It does this while forcing you to fight one! Then finally at the end you know the main character simply takes the cowards way out and shoots himself.

The culmination of the MGS games seems to be to tell the player that they made no difference at all in the end. It's depressing and pointless. I'm really going to love seeing how reviewers and hypers spin that one.

I'm certainly more tempted after reading that than I was before. I missed 3 out completely, having only briefly played the normal version with its bloody awful camera controls, but I might be up for this.

On the downside, I return from Canada on the 11th, thus just missing the chance of getting it cheap.

Edit: grammar.

God, even longer cutscenes than 2? Count me out. Doesn't matter how great the environment is or how fancy the graphics are, if I've got to sit through hours of spouting it's not worth the effort. I'd rather watch telly, at least that way I know I'm not supposed to wake up and move the characters about a bit every half an hour or so.

@ penhalion

But it has changed. Do you really think MGS4 is the same game as MGS1? Sure the core principle of the the gameplay is the same but that is the same with any game series. Would MGS4 be a MGS game without the MGS gameplay, no (I believe the same of the "fiasco" of GTA4).

The fact is with these successful franchises we WANT the same gameplay, we want to experience the joys of certain games with a few improvements, a graphical leap and a different environment.

You do not need to re-invent the wheel to make a perfect wheel, to suggest so is a tiny bit of snobbery.

a hooded robe that bears a striking resemblance to that worn by a certain other master of evasion

Mandrake!

Eurogamer, please tell me if we will get the special edition "Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots Limited Edition"?

And where? Who wants my money ;)

I honestly don't understand what it is that the people who dislike the MGS cutscenes and story get out of the series. Can anyone explain?

Personally i loved MGS3. So i can't wait until i get my mitts on MGS4.


/turns on ps3 and waits.....

I agree, bugger the tedious cutscenes just make a movie if you must (though MGS would just be ridiculous as a live action flick).

Anyway... I played MGS3 and enjoyed but it wasn't a ludic-life changing experience, but there are also people who rated Halo 3 1/10 so I'm not that weirdo. Might be just a bit, though.

@Arbiter

I'm not going to argue with you as I find it more productive to simply ignore your idiotic ramblings. You've been exposed numerous times as a sony fanboy, whereas everyone has seen that I simply state my opinions and don't ram them down peoples throats or try to insult people because they disagree with me. That is all.

We are all weird miiguel. who but us would write about cutscenes?

/puts on MGS2 and falls asleep

@penhalion:

I played MGS3 and liked it a lot. MGS2 was also pretty entertaining, though not quite as much.

The point with this franchise is, people either love it or hate it.

There is a new video up that is a little strange. Anyone care to speculate? Looks like they are hinting at a MGS remake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo2l9-XJYms

MGS is the marmite of the gaming world: you either love it or hate it

@Bad09

Back to talking to a sensible forum poster.

You are correct in that we don't need to keep re-inventing the wheel. I'm not saying we should just that I'm getting fed up of the crud that seems to be going around about this game. You know it's crud, when even Kojima himself says he's disapointed in how it turned out in the end.

I'll get this because as I've said, I've completed all the others and I guess I'm hoping there is a suprise in there and that he didn't really already show us the final ending. The final fight at the end of metal gear solid 3 when you get to find out how big boss got his name :) was a great moment and had me laughing at the cornyness of it.

I think in the end those who don't like metal gear still will not like metal gear after 4 comes out and those like me who just need to get some completeness out of the series will still moan about it being overly preachy and a bit tedious in places.

After playing MGO, the actual gameplay mechanic of Metal Gear HAS changed, it simply has, it doesn't feel like you are playing the previous iterations. I see where the comment comes from about resisting a typical FPS or even Drakes Fortune urge to belt into an area and get stuck in, doing this on the online game sees you cut off from your comrades and picked off at ease by the more stealthy types. Should we be expecting anything less though? It took a decent bit of planning on the first game to plot your course across the room, wait for the lift and to get in it, and then the following section I spent a good while plotting a course with my binoculars before progressing gingerly to avoid detection.

The fundamental slow sneak of Metal Gear will always be Metal Gear, genuine disbelief at the way people have approached GTA4 for example and been SHOCKED to find that its a Grand Theft Auto game at the core. My word, was it Wii Fit in disguise we were hoping for?! Perhaps the unicycling gameplay slant that I've mused upon for Metal Gear IS needed after all.

And lets perhaps draw a conclusion to what the game is presenting to us AFTER we buy it and finish it.

also RE: the comment about the graphics only being good in the cutscenes, is this not as stated because you get the chance to sit back and appreciate them?

@miiiguel

"It cluters my gaming history, hate it... "

So does having CSI on your gamercard imo. LOL

"MGS 3 is the worst of the bunch thus far I would say. You are much better off trying one of the earlier editions, or waiting for 4 I suppose, as it does look rather good (rubbish plot not withstanding ;) )"

MGS 3 > MGS 2

That is all.

@ penhalion

I'm far from sensible :)

"Kojima himself says he's disapointed in how it turned out in the end."

I know he said that but he is slightly insane so I'm sure it will still be fantastic!

"I think in the end those who don't like metal gear still will not like metal gear after 4 comes out and those like me who just need to get some completeness out of the series will still moan about it being overly preachy and a bit tedious in places."

100% correct, but hey, at least we have something to debate in June!

@SeeThroughAll

:) Just saw your comment about the battle with "The End" (original thought you meant the battle at the end).

It was sheer luck. You either had to spot him immediately or get sniped to pieces. The trick was to stay perfectly still until he moved. You only got a few seconds to make the shot, while the old wheelchair bound bast was somehow legging it like the wind across the level!

I must admit he was a class boss. You never really took him seriously until the fight. After all each time you saw him he was being wheeled about like a 90 year old corpse.

Edit: old spelling gaffuffles

I'm looking forward to this game a lot. I loved MGS and Snake Eater. Even Sons of Liberty kept me happily entertained for a while there... but as a fan of the series, I sincerely doubt that this will be the last we see of Metal Gear Solid.

Hideo Kojima said in Edge this month that he'd be stepping down from the project, as he fancies doing something else and it is written ti tie-up every loose thread... but ultimately the fans call the shots as far as he's concerned. Even if he sits back as an Executive Producer, someone at the studio will probably make a new Metal Gear - if Guns of the Patriots does as well as expected.

I'm half expecting a prequel or side-story spin-off series based on some secondary character from the franchise to start appearing around 2012. Meryl Gear Solid?

Also, I'm bloody glad that they've kept the terrificly protracted and lengthy cutscenes! It's not MGS without them, and hey - they've added a Pause and Skip function to them - what more do you need?!

The more I read about this the more excited I get.

I like the slower pace as it serves as a welcome change to the more traditional FPS.

I love the cut scenes but most of all I love the attention to detail with the fire fights, squad dynamics, sounds, graphic details for the guns... all of it.

MGO proved one thing that MGS4 will deliver by the bucket load and not only that it ships with MGO in all its glory.

/goes into giddy overdrive

The Kojima statement can be taken SO far out of context unless you read the interviews with him. Worth grabbing a copy of Edge for that.

About the old "why doesn't Kojima make movies instead of games" argument. Well, because here you get the cinematic experience and, surprise surprise, also a GAME, where you have a significant degree of control on what happens on the screen. For me is all added value....mmmh makes me think I should buy a ps3 sometimes in the future.

I don't think Kojima is really disappointed about the game... read what he actually said:

"When we first showed the game engine at TGS, the staff were really proud and happy. PS3 was a dream machine, and we were going to work on this and that - we had so many ideas! But when we actually started developing the game, we realised that there were a lot of restrictions and so it turned out how you see it today. The original version was to go ten steps further, the reality was just one step, which isn't to say we didn't progress."

So it's more like his imagination outstripped what was actually possible. And we know Koj is a modest man. So I wouldn't oversubscribe to more sensasionalistic interpretations you might see about the place.

@Mindstorm

They are making an MGS movie, aren't they?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808372/

@ penhalion
The battle with The End has nothing to do with luck if you took the time to figure out how to fight him. You need either the infra-red goggles or the sound detector thing (can't remember the name for it) or for preference both. Then you need to creep around using the goggles to look for his heat signature and using the sound detector (he falls asleep so you can hear him snoring).

Track him carefully using those techniques, when you find him stick him up and threaten him a few times (move the gun off and on him). He gives you his camo (almost 100% effective in that stage and stamina/health regeneration when in the sun) then flash-bangs you and runs off. Cause you now have his camo it's easy to move around undetected, just track him and shoot him with the trank-gun and when his stamina is zero he dies and you get his mosin-nagant tranq sniper rifle.

Takes some time to do (especially the first part) but it IS supposed to be a stealth game. So you can take him out without getting shot once and by tracking his sniping spots ... not with luck but with skill. All it takes is a bit of thinking.

@Kenshin001

It seems to be suggesting that you can play the original metal gear Shadow Mosses mission as a dream sequence within the game. There hasn't been any suggestion of how you trigger these sequences or if they are simply integrated into the main game.

A very welcome suprise if it's true :)

Sounds interesting, but not essential

/2 years...

Previous experience of the Metal Gear series aside, who could play a character who looks like a gay dad at a bawdy nightclub?

Seriously, he looks fucking ludicrous. The clip of him rolling around on the floor like he's trapped in clingfilm is equally hilarous.

It's just SO camp.

@Scythe

Where were you when I was playing that bit! :)

Sad because they've not mentioned any DVD controls for the anim...cutscenes.

MGS2 wasted many of my gaming sessions just sitting there watching some weird shite that made no sense, but with your next objective spoken in one or two lines of dialogue, so that if you skip the cutscene you have to trial and error to find out what you're doing.

Stupid - selling just to the hardcore with no life to live or with loads of time to entertain game's bullshit.

next!

Ninja Gaiden II - promote that instead, guys.

with this preview im sold.a super mgs experience.maybe the ultimate.go hideo!

@ penhalion ... probably swearing loudly and throwing my controller ... before calmed down and applying a bit of lateral thinking.

And thats what I like about the Metal Gear games, the thought put into it. Most people did just what you did, run around getting sniped trying to find him. But a bit of lateral thinking and it becomes a completely different boss battle. There are plenty situations like that in the games and that's what keeps me interested. Not to mention that (IMO) the ending of MGS3 was one of the most poignant gaming endings ever.

I reckon that new trailer (with the remade opening stage from MGS1) is actually showing a playable dream sequence from MGS4.

MGS games just proved to me really that i don't really want story in my games i just want context. I like some reson for doing what i'm doing but it it can stop around "figt you way through these bad guys and environment to collect new power/weapon to fight the next load baddies before get to the proper nasty cunt at the end. Story doesn't make a bad game good ever and then look at mario. Same story for the last 20 years, and not a every good one at that, still great games.

:) I seem to run sony fanboys up the wrong way it seems.

Edit: I sould point out that the reason I don't reply to any jibes by RDexter, Arbiter etc. etc. is because I simply put them on ignore a long while back. Every time I spot a fanboy I hit the ignore button and I'd like to think they are sensible enough to put me on their own ignore lists too. It saves people embarassingly replying to an empty room as it were.

I think its fair to not like the game, but in the same swing, its fair to like the game. We all have our reasons.