Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots Comments by Oli Welsh

I agree with Arbiter. MGS2 was quite an achievement for the time, indeed, I still think it's one of the best looking games.

There are also quite a few complaints about the plot, but it was quite straight forward until the final act (basically from when Raiden is relieved of his clothes). It seemed that they wanted to build on the popular plot twists from MGS, but made a real hash of it by trying to make them more convulted and unguessable. They seemed to learn their lesson by MGS3, where most of the plots twists are kept to an agreeable level, and don't spoil the enjoyment.

Hopefully, they'll continue the trend in MGS4, and it'll be just as well realised.

i have no console axe to grind as I have them all and appreciate each for their strengths. I think the gameplay in MGS in essentially fun. it's just that the cutscenes are too damn long, and dont get me started on codecs... i have always found the controls counter intuitive as well. (tries to shoot guard and ends up getting onto his hands and knees instead - then commando crawling).

@drswin

Yeah, I've always felt that's something that needs addressing too.

I'm not sure I like the fact that codec conversations are skippable - this implies they are still in a 'cutscene with no scene' format. I had assumed they would be at a point where you could continue playing with them still audible, maybe withe the graphic still visible as part of the hud.

I still think MGS1 was the best, far better than 2. 1 was original, story was superb, it evoked real emotion especially that scene where whatisgirl gets shot. I still got the NTSC and PAL version of the game.

/edit grammer, spelling

If it now has a skip button you could bypass 95% of the game.

Bonus!

I alway's liked the MGS series and have played every installment... MGS4 will be one of the best games ever, not a doubt about it.

It just doesn't look all that interesting...
And with a flashback button, very long cutscenes, bad controls...
I prefer Halo 3!!!

More Gaming Snooze

"MGS4 will be one of the best games ever, not a doubt about it."

You are wrong, as usual. Might be some of the best cutscenes ever, but certainly not the game.

What the hell is so wrong with MGS2? Apart from the fact you can complete it in like 4 hours.

I found it far more engaging than MGS3. But then, I never had the time to invest in 3 that I did in 2, and didn't actually finish it.

I'm looking forward to this game as much as the next-guy, but even die-hard fans of the series must admit that the control method is extremely outdated. Having to piss about trying to equip weapons, move about, and shoot isn't necessary at all. If MGS4 still insists on using such an old gameplay system then I won't be best pleased, it only just managed to survive in Snake Eater.

You can, of course, argue that the control method is "intended" so it makes the game more difficult and challenging. But really, to me this is just a poor excuse. I'm all for keep the winning formulas alive, but the winning formula for MGS died out with MGS2, they seriously need to employ a more fluid gameplay system.

Id like to start a campaign for MORE lengthy cut scenes in games. If you enjoy to put the controller down, and just watch once in a while, sign here plox.

This will be much better than Halo 3, that's for sure

Is the Xbox MGS3 ; Subsistence worth getting to play on the 360? Or are the controls borked like the other one?

EDIT: doesn't look like they released it! Anyone know otherwise?

There's an Xbox MGS3?

I'm glad MGS is old fashioned and stuck in it's ways. I mean really, what's the alternative? Being more 'generic' and in keeping with what people take for granted? Old is the new new, after all.

I've never quite understood why MGS2 gets so spat upon nowadays, especially in relation to MGS3. Certainly, plot-wise, there's no comparison; MGS3's Cold War origin story was involving, surprising and rather moving at the end, placing the whole Metal Gear story into a coherent context that even made the baffling, overreaching MGS2 story seem to make a bit more sense.

In gameplay terms, though, there's no doubt in my mind that 2 was the series's highpoint, taking the stealth concepts introduced in the first game and really bringing them to life with superior AI and little tweaks (rolling, leaning, hiding in lockers) that truly made all the difference in the world. 3, on the other hand, felt like a step too far, stretching that refined yet fundamentally simple engine to breaking point with a fiddly reliance on menus, over-large environments that the camera couldn't cope with and an alert mode that was near unplayable in its difficulty; I feel sure I'm missing something here, but the only things I could think of to do after being spotted in MGS3 was to run back and forth between areas or cower in a nook until the five-minute timer ran down, or else just die in a blaze of bullets by the often limitless reinforcement troops. Hardly graceful, or fun.

4 should be top, though, especially if it is a return to more traditional MGS gameplay, as reported. I love these characters and am fascinated to see how Kojima plans to continue this narrative after the freakshow bizarrity of 2's ending; even if it does go off on one again, though, MGs games still guarantee enough great setpieces, shock twists and genuinely funny humour to make it worth the trip.

My point here, and explanation of my knee-jerk reaction to post saying 'this will be teh bestest gamez evar!!' with 'NO' is this: MGS is a niche series. It's not easily accessible, for several reasons (ongoing story, controls, game style) and so will not be a mainstream game, and will most likely not be a huge system seller.

Delusions of grandeur make me bite. Yes it might be a great game FOR FANS OF THE SERIES but a mainstream system selling blockbuster it almost certainly won't be.

You're confusing 'commercial success' with 'critical success', methinks. MGS as a franchise has a more or less indisputable claim to the latter, and a respectable claim to the former (this is the series which helped put the PS1 and PS2 on the map, after all).

>"and the controls and camera can't really cope with the action. Aiming is maddeningly imprecise, lock-on has a mind of its own, and the camera moves with a vague inertia which works nicely for taking in the view, but not for flicking around a battlefield quickly. It's messy, frankly, and the game feels much better when playing with the painstaking, inch-at-a-time precision you had to in previous instalments."

NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

>"maybe it is just me that I like my games to have stories"

Maybe it's just me, but I like my games to have stories with coherence.
Why are some people defensive about MGS2 that they feel anyone that hates it are secret 360 fanboys? You do know the metal gear series has existed for a looooong time now?

I can bet that 90% of people that hated MGS2 loved MGS.

Now - I never got into the MGS games. Started playing the first one and probably got distracted by some flashy lights and never picked it back up. IYHO's - will I be able to pick up this game as a relative noob and still enjoy it, regardless of flash backs. Will I understand "HOW-TO-PLAY-THE-GAME"? I think some sequels can alienate newcomers by presuming everyone knows how to play it already (FFMCMXII)...

Hideo Kojima, Shuyo Murata and Yoji Shinkawa will make sure that MGS4 will deliver all the goods we are waiting for, and more... the game will be awesome, Detailed textures (the streets are broken from the fighting and Snake has never looked as detailed); a first-person, Sixaxis mode; exploding vans; and much more... i can't wait.

Q:Take away all the hype since MGS 1...Are MGS 2 & 3 really that great ?

A: No!...there good/decent at best!

PlayStation 3 owners are a loyal bunch. There’s no doubt that despite its technological superiority (yes, it really is more powerful than the Xbox 360), it’s lagged behind the competition on the games front – especially on the exclusive games front.
This year, that’s all set to turn around, with a bunch of big exclusives in the pipeline. And without doubt, one of the biggest is the long-awaited, much-anticipated Metal Gear Solid 4. We’ve seen many tantalizing glimpses of what lies ahead in the various trailers and game show demonstrations
Snake’s ‘Octo-Cam’. This new stealth suit takes the camouflage system introduced in MGS3 a step further and allows Snake to mimic both the colour and texture of his surrounds by pressing up against a wall or floor, or even by remaining stationary, as demonstrated by his ability to hide among statues by taking on their colour and texture.
The controls in particular have been streamlined. L1 is used to aim and R1 to fire; R1 also initiates a CQC (Close Quarters Combat) move if an enemy is in hand-to-hand range. Every weapon in the game, from knives to machineguns, have CQC moves and advanced players will be able to pull off combos and special moves, including the dreaded crotch grab.
Weapons are customizable, meaning you can add flashlights, grenade launchers and the like to Snake’s guns. Indeed, there’s a predictably large array of guns, grenades, mines, missile launchers and the like to play with.
The camera is an evolution of MGS3: Subsistence’s third-person perspective and the game can also be played entirely from a first-person view if desired. Instead of radar or sonar Snake now has the ‘Threat Ring’, a circle that uses different waveforms to indicate the type and direction of inbound threats.
Snake has one other way of keeping tabs on the battlefield around him: the Solid Eye. This eyepatch device offers three vision modes: thermal imaging, equipment detector (to reveal enemies’ weapons) and zoom.
He also has two new meters: Stress and Psyche. These monitor Snake’s mental health and they can both help (when Snake enters a ‘Combat High’, gaining increased accuracy and taking less damage) and hinder (when Snake suffers from stress his accuracy is reduced, but it can be restored by finding and examining a girlie magazine…).
In some sections of the game you’ll take control of Otacon’s Metal Gear Mk II, a miniature robot (powered by the Cell processor!) that can deliver small quantities of supplies, engage a stealth mode and even use its reserves of electricity to stun organic opponents.
This is a significant addition to Snake’s stealth arsenal. All the ingredients are in place – characters, setting, stealth, guns, gadgets and Kojima’s freaked-out approach to storytelling – for another classic Metal Gear Solid experience.

Quite simply, it’s going to be an agonizing wait to somewhere in Q2, 2008…

I think the Marmite analogy is spot on. Personally I had enough of MGS about half way through the first game and have not been back since. The Thief series always delivered superior stealth thrills for me.

*Yawn* at Apologies usual bollocks.

Hey Apolol, could you please cut & paste the normal list of upcoming PS3 titles for us all? You seem to have forgotten it in your last post.

seriously why do you guy's alway's feel the need to minimize the importance of some games, especially if they are Ps3 exclusives???? it's just silly..., even more if the game in subject is unquestionably good (like MGS4).
I know in the end... that secretly all of thouse who feel that special need to critisize such a good game (basically X360 fanboy's), are praying for the last installment (MGS4) to become multiplatform, too bad it wont... get a life guy's, that, or a Ps3 ;)

by the way... now that i mentioned X360 fanboys, read these article guy's... it's intresting http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_...

i alway's had these idea... what kind of product have a feature that tells you when it's dead???? :) they knew it from the begining.

Didn't expect to see loads of people putting the boot into the MGS series.

Except I absolutely did

People just don't get MGS or Kojima. Their loss.

It's a shame really that people can't look at this game as a game in itself, the team seem to have gone to a lot of trouble to try and improve the game in ways which have been criticised, for example the control scheme and the forwarding of cut-scenes. Especially as the main people who these changes are aimed at are the ones who aren't willing to give the game a chance. Die-hard MGS fans will get it regardless, as will PS3 owners who simply want a great new game. I just think people should give the game a chance.

@ People just don't get MGS or Kojima. Their loss.

It's not about 'getting it', the Marmite comment from Oli was correct. Personally I hope it reviews well, I will be tempted to give it try provided it doesn't require an encyclopedic knowledge of the Blah blah storyline of the previous games to 'get it'.

A well written, informative preview.

It's official APOLOGIE is the biggest PS arse licker in the world...Sony use him to advertise PS3, as he's sad enough to do it for nothing.

MGS the stealth has always been on the weak side. If they spot you - just shoot them or hide for a couple of minutes.

Am I the only one who hopes that MGS4 is a bit bizarre and off the wall?

Although MGS2 did go off quite spectacularly after you landed in Arsenal Gear's "Rectum", it had some great headfuck moments like when campbell tells you to stop playing, switch off your PS2 and get a life. For me that was a great break in the 4th wall and has only been beaten by some of the insanity effects in Eternal Darkness.

Actually thinking about it, another great moment in MGS1 was when psycho mantis read your memory card (in both the PS1 and gamecube versions) or when you got told to put the controller on your arm to administer an injection. There weren't any moments like that in MGS3 or MGS: Portable Ops and that kind of made me sad...

Take the RED flashback button, not the blue one!

@MGS2's reputation... it took me four long years until I got Hideo Kojima's hilarious joke named Raiden... what game even stays that long in memory that you can actually laugh about yourself while you so much hated that Raiden-guy?

Loved all the MGS games to date, and feel they all stand up to their consistently high review scores. MGS3 and its online counterpart are simply awesome, whilst the PSPs Portable Ops is for me the best PSP game there is.

MGS4 will be incredible.

From a "die-hard" MGS fan point of view, I have seen this first hand plenty of times. I am very proficient with the controls of all the games in the series and there are few games that give me such a fulfilling gameplay experience, the games just stay in my consoles all the time...

But I remember from my college days, friends would come to my room to give it a go and it would last about five minutes because Snake would end up acting like a drugged up headless chicken.

As apposed to something like Resident Evil 4, when the same people would just instantly be hooked and finish the game in two days or so, farting up my room.

I guess my point is if you like you like it, and if you don't I can't bare to watch that kind of torture.

@Drpwnage

Yes it is a marmite game in a way. Do all the marmite haters troll the marmite forums with their petty shite?

Some seriously sad stuff in this thread. If you don't 'get' the story and think it ruins the game fine, buy halo, but please shut the fuck up while doing so.

cheers.

I just recently started play this series.

The first one was great. The second one was also really good but I think the ending did it a real disservice. I'm playing the third one now - even though I think it's a good game it doesn't feel very Metal Gear-ish. I think it strays to far from the formula, but I'm not too far in so I guess I'll continue, maybe it'll pick up.

JYM: It's just basic trolling I thought, nothing much to care about. The concerns about the story after MGS2 are valid concerns in my opinion. But it doesn't stop MGS1 and 3 from being great games and this looking like another (and actually I think it looks like the best when it comes to the gameplay).

The first one is probally the best game ive ever played. I even enjoyed the ending which rarely happens in games. The second one seemed like a clone of the first with better graphics but lost abit of the soul. With the third i have it but have to admit i didnt get very far at all. With all people saying how great it is and that it gets better think ill give it another try.

@FarticusMaximus
Not sure I agree it is a niche game. It doesn't fit so nicely into one of the core genres but it does sell well and it is an important title. PS2 MGS2 sold ~5.5 million copies and MGS3 sold ~4 million. That isn't niche sales. I think it's an important title for the Japanese market too where more "niche" games can be bigger sellers.

Gameplay-wise I tend to agree though. I found the controls in the series shonky and cutscenes overdone.

@farticusmaximus
"A boring, cutscene-heavy, awkward-to-control game demands, and gets, no respect from me. As previously mentioned, MGS is marmite, it's not mainstream and it never will be."

I have no idea under what you define "mainstream" or even why it matters. MGS 1, 2 and 3 sold around the 16million mark. Theres a hell of a lot of people out there that absolutely love the series.

Loved MGS 1. MGS 2 wasn't too bad apart from that really weird ending sequence and I never really got through MGS3.

Game sounds really promising so will definitely be worth a bash.

The whole pushing up against a wall is a pain in the arse. I would far prefer the usual standard these days of pressing a button to stick to a wall or cover. Too many times I've been kicked off cover with a slightly too heavy push on the analogue stick. It is just too damn fiddly at times.

i really hope theres some kind of radar system again because i kinda just rambo'd my way through msg3 because of the awful camera it wasnt any fun at all using a motion detector and a sound detector and fiddling with camo.... but yknow that game is still totally awesome.. it has that whole 1-2-3 4! punch thing going on at the end where it just keeps outdoing itself in its awesomeness and nobody has really matched a few of the things it does incredibly well like the sniper fight against the end or the bit where you have to walk through all the people youve killed against the sorrow onlf for him to kiill you...just stupidly memorable moments im certain kojima is gonna show everyone some really awesome new tricks this time which regardless of wheether people say its mainstream is a marmite thing...

ive never met anyone that says they like a mgs game (in real life that is)

I think it looks shit tbh.

Loved MGS2 especially the cut scenes I thought they were very well done. Loved MGS - Twin Snakes on the Game Cube. Loved portable ops and MG Acid. Loved MGS3 and the way they told the back story.

I can't wait for this.

/Getting giddy with excitement