Mass Effect Comments by Kristan Reed

John Shepard, that's the lead character from Stargate Atlantis.

My problem with the review isn't just the score, it's that Kristan hammered on and on about there being a lot of TALKING in the game. Yes, we know, anyone who's even remotely anticipating this game knows. I get the feeling he wasn't interested in the game at all. I already know I'm going to make up my own mind about the game, of course, I just think Eurogamer reviews have really declined in quality lately. In before 'gtfo then'

Feanor: Everyone on here is whining, you too. I am expressing an opinion as well! See how this works? We can express disagreements about things!

"fair play though, this game is shit. i downloaded it last week off usenet around the same time as assassins creed and call of duty 4 - this one wont be played a lot, guess its worth £1.50 for the dual-layer verb but definitely no more.

only sad saps would pay full price for this.


Why dont you fuck of you cunt. "

Hey dudes, what part of "PUNK IS DEAD" you didn't get ?

@xerx3s - Erm, Dragon Age?

Pimp my dragon. ¬_¬

Personally I think it's a disgrace this wasn't a PC title as well (as it was originally intended). What happened to MS trying to merge the gap between the 360 and Windows, eh?

Bioware should be ashamed. The PC games market made them. Still, I'm sure we will get a port in a year or two.

That is all I have to say - Looks a cool game, btw.

I don't get Eurogamer's coverage of some of the big games of Q3-4 this year. BioShock - sure, it's great . . . for about 5 hours. After that it becomes so easy as you're absolutely loaded and have piles and piles of ammo. - and yet, a 10? 1 story twist [however good] does not justify a 10!

Halo 3 - while I personally love it, 10? The campaign doesn't have much, if any, replay value, and multiplayer just doesn't compete with, say, CoD4.

Assassin's Creed! 7!!? You can't be serious! An 8 or 9 at least, even if it's just for trying to do something different from shooters.

And now, Mass Effect. Probably the biggest WRPG release since Oblivion [or KotOR if you're that kinda guy] and it gets an 8?

Now - I respect that these are opinions, but I get the feeling that Eurogamer is trying too hard to be different [i.e. Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, when other sites scored them substantially higher] and also trying too hard to appease the hype [BioShock, Halo 3, which probably didn't deserve 10s].

Ah well - I'll still get Mass Effect. I'm not a slave to reviews ;)

Something tells me Mass Effect could be a timeless classic just like KOTOR was.

It wouldn't be the first time that EG gave a timeless classic an 8 or far below. It's the reviewers opinion, not the end all discussion fact.

Halo 3 - while I personally love it, 10? The campaign doesn't have much, if any, replay value, and multiplayer just doesn't compete with, say, CoD4.

Played the campaign about 5 or 6 times in under 2 weeks, hows that for replayability? COD4 MP? Granted that I'm enjoying it atm but technically it is not even on the same MP level as H3.

From the videos i've seen it's technically excellent but the future seems a bit soulless.

"Oblivion, by a country mile."

Ouch! :-(

Wow, I am surprised so many people don't realize what "texture pop-in" is all about.

I haven't played Mass Effect, but the reviewer did draw the similarity between Gears of War which I have played.

Texture pop-in is one way to streamline the gamer's fun, where there are no loading screens to load all the content at once, but rather the most important content (base geometry and bland textures) immediatley, and the more detailed textures as the gamer is playing. This removes loading periods altogether (which I personally like more than the Metroid Prime 2 approach, where there are no texture pop-ins, but you have to wait at the door for every level while it loads the next room).

Compare this to something like the Orange Box on the 360, where every minute you have another 8 second pause to load more content, and it is easy to see which is better.

I usually like Eurogamer's reviews because they don't fluff up a title at all and are usually good at pointing out the negative parts of a game. This review makes me question the actual knowledge of the reviewer, which definitely isn't good.

Can anyone say they would prefer a loading screen than pop-in textures?

Well put BigJonno. I honestly think you hit the nail on the head.

The only reason there's a lot of talking to be done in the beginning is because you'll probably end up wandering around the Citadel rather needlessly. Having now played it through to completion, I now realise I could have skipped rather quickly to the main missions and saved myself a lot of time. That's not to say the Citadel section isn't fun, it's just the game does take long time to really 'click' with what it wants you to do, with no real explanation of the front end, or the usefulness of the map.

If all the BioWare fans really want to convince themselves it's a proper RPG, that's fine. It has the levelling up system of an RPG, certainly, but what people have to accept is that the missions, both main story and sub quests, are 95% action, and play like any other action game, only not quite as well-realised.

There are small breaks between the shooting where you meet characters (who might offer you another small fetch quest for money) but once you're actually on a mission, it's a third person shooter, like it or not.

When the game comes out and people actually play it for themselves, this will be glaringly apparent. But if you really expect more than underlying RPG elements, then you'll be very very disappointed.

Despite making a bit point about how weighty the narrative is at the start, this is actually one of the game's real strong points. I love true adventure games, and while this isn't one of them, it does use narrative in a deep and involving way - even if the effect on gameplay is ultimately fairly trivial when it boils down to it.

Call me names, come up with all the conspiracy theories in the world, but I rated this game as I saw it, not based on hype, or rating it as an action game instead of an RPG, or because I don't 'get' it, or because I don't like Sci-fi, or whatever "yeah buts" you can think of, I just rated the experience I had. No hidden agenda.

krudster - you're one of the guys who stumbled onto AdventureGamer's massive forum thread about what constitutes an adventure or something? Along with Richard.

What I've found from the stuff I've seen of this game (and I accept I could have the wrong impression) is it seems to strive to have 'real' graphics. Real characters.

But when I saw a video of the casino for instance, it looked like a horrible, empty environment. Somewhere I wouldn't want to be. An artificial looking environment.

No character to it. Just a 'place'.

BrandonW -What you seem to be patronisingly unaware of is that there most definitely are long loading times *and* horrendous texture pop-in.

All the time.

And frame rate hitches that slow things down to sub 10fps levels.

And terrible V-syncing

At least check your facts before making ill-founded observations.

"No character to it. Just a 'place'. "
Maybe it tries to characterize the future ?

BUT THE TITS. TELL US ABOUT THE TITS.

Are you sure krudster?

According to people that played the game, the moment you get Spectered you can do whatever you want ... nothing stops you from taking the Normandy and go exploring.

If you stick to the "main" quest I guess you are going to be stuck on the Citadel for a bit of time also according to what I read.

Well krudster I'd say you're going by the definition of RPG wherein an RPG must have turn-based or stats-based combat, which is really rather silly. A 'role-playing game' is a game in which you can play, shockingly, a role! And seeing as how Mass Effect allows for loads of character customization in every department I'd say it fits the bill neatly. That, to me, is the most important aspect of an RPG. Bioware never pretended the gameplay was anything other than 3rd-person shooting.

There are an awful lot of people desperate for this game to be something it isn't - Did they not play Jade Empire? It seems Bioware have gone even further down that road...

The technical issues sound extremely disapointing.

That's true, once Spectred, the Galaxy is there for the taking, but you gain that pretty early on. My problem was I didn't quite realise for some time that this was something I could do, so spent a good couple of hours trying to meet everyone in the Citadel - at which point it became more and more obvious I wouldn't get anywhere unless I headed back to the docking station. Wherever that was...

Remember, it's a game you can complete in just over 10 hours first run - our man on the .de site took just 11 hours on his first run through, and I can quite believe it.

@miiguel

i think perhaps this game ain't for me.

i get the feeling they've gone for this conversation thing, and realistic graphics to the detriment of a (dare i say it?) environment with soul.

all the videos i've seen seem somehow empty and lifeless.

to hell with cinematic stuff. i'd be happy with cartoony character models if the area's you visit are fully populated and not plain gun-metal walls with a few NPC's.

but that could be me getting the wrong impression from the videos i've seen

like i say. i'll buy it and see. but i find what i've seen a bit characterless.

Uh-oh, let's not start the 'what is a role playing game' topic, it'll never end. I'm not denying it has RPG mechanics underlying the gameplay. At all. And if all a game has to be in order to be classified an RPG is to allow you to play a role, then that covers every major genre in existence. Where's Gillen when you need him?

Maybe it was Kieren and Richard then.

/feels ignored

@krudster.

Weird you did not mentioned in the review how the exploration is, in fact I seen many critics about the non plot worlds.

There's not really a lot to say about it. It feels like unecessary fluff around the edges, in the main.

Whoa there krudster.

As I stated, I have never played this game, and thus draw my opinions from Gears of War, which was the comparison the reviewer made for this game.

The graphical glitches have nothing to do with loading times (although I agree that graphical glitches are unacceptable in this time and age of gaming).

As for the loading times, the reviewer made no reference to loading times being bad. The only related information I read was a very off-hand comment about waiting for things to happen, not specifically about the game freezing while content was loaded.

Not to mention that the entire feel of the review was that this was a bad shooting game.

So before you get your panties in a twist, try not to assume everyone knows everything, maybe read the comments you so knowledgeably reply to, and understand that while the review's final score may not be far off the mark, the review itself was by no means anything better than average.

Right, side quests in RPGs are unnecessary fluff.

Also, I wasn't saying every game where you play a role is an RPG, but character customization, be it in personality (mostly in WRPGs) or stats (JRPGs) is one thing that pretty much any RPG has. Combat systems have always been different. Why does that make Mass Effect less of an RPG?

Err Brandon you were the one acting like we all misunderstand what texture pop-in is, whereas you were the one actually misunderstanding it. So that's a bit of a cheeky thing to say, 'try not to assume everyone knows everything', isn't it? In case you still don't get it: Like in Gears and Halo 2, textures of objects tend to pop in while you're already looking at them. This is a bad thing.

@krudster

That is kinda of what I read, they are smaller that plot worlds and most "roam around in the MAKO" to collect minerals but that should been mentioned since its part of the game.

As always, these threads are hilarious. All i have to do is read a few random comments and i'll be giggling like a schoolgirl. There's no point debating anything in comment sections for hyped games. Rabid fanboys from all sides will just drown you out :).

Following the trend of Bioware RPGs, you can't say that they have been for everyone. Bgate 1, although magnificent turned off a lot of people because they couldn't get out of Candlekeep and make it alive to the next city (where an attempted assassination again probably killed you)

And as brilliant as it was( I and II and III fav games of all time), you're bound to get some individuals who will nit pick at items because they couldn't get it. I would say that this review border lines that very statement, and as such, I would go to say that this wasn't a poor reflection of ME in terms of what it could mean to all the rest of us, it's just that it's proof that not everyone is going to get it. So main stream crowd that is confused with Nintendo RPGs are going to get railed by this game.

Having said that, 8.0 is still a very good score from this perspective. As for action over RPG elements, if it plays like that then you aren't using the pause button. If you aren't using the Pause button then for sure you can pretty much designate this game as a Action with RPG elements. If you roll the other way which is often how BioWare intends to play all their RPGS (although it doesn't sound as intuitive as the previous offerings ie KOTOR, Bgate) then you'd see the RPG aspect of the game.

That said, many of you can't actually say that Jade was an all out RPG (can't say it's a full on RPG because there was too much input from the player on fights), much like KOTOR and the Baldur's series ones are. That said, this review is valid; aggravated in tone, but quite possibly justified from a reviewer who played this game another way.

Giving a 10 to bioshock is wrong though. They really just did System Shock 2 all over again.. and seriously.. system shock 2 did a better job at the time it was released. Yea, murderously hard at times, but bioshock is a walk in the park in comparison.

You want a real comparison - if you liked Bgate I,II,III - PS:Torment, Icewind Dale, KOTOR, Jade Empire -- BioShock, System Shock

this game will be 10/10 in your books.

R-DIGI: "This website is WAY too judge-mental of video games, I hate the reviews, they are crap, when was the last time there was a good European game? huh?"

Umm, I don't know, how about The Witcher, or Crysis... ?

well if it's any consolation, I thought the review was very good and I trust your opinion and have done for many years.

the simple truth is that the minute-to-minute combat simply isn't as intense and involving as you'd expect from a game in 2007

I'll remember this when you score FFXIII *LOL*

got this game already and it is worth more than an 8 silly euroGAYmer.

Picked it up in AU the other day, yes, eb were selling it from late last week, anyway ive put a whopping 30 minutes into it, gimme a break endless ocean rocks. Anyway in that short space of time i can say the dialogue rocks, graphics are good and the run n gun part did remind me of gears of war. Squad commands are basic, using just the d-pad, cover system seems ok. I never played KOTOR or any of biowares games, but im glad its not based on star wars as it gives the characters a chance to stand on there own 2 feet. Far to early to judge but the opening was great and thats always a good sign!

Important point to note pt 134: you can use the special abilities via RB if you think it makes it more of an RPG, but, try a little experiment and see if it makes any real difference to the outcome of a fight. It doesn't . You can get by without it every single time if you so choose, so if that doesn't highlight that it has been *designed* as an action game, I'm not sure what does.

If you can kill everything in plain sight in real time, without pausing the game, I don't see the need to utilise special skills just for the sake of it.

To clarify, I did use the special abilities quite a lot to begin with, then started experiementing not using them, and, to be honest, it seems to me that BioWare put them there to offer the illusion of RPG combat rather than making them integral to the outcome.

@krudster

Sorry but it does not work that way, you are trying to define what is a RPG and what is not based on the difficulty, that is another issue (and I seem BioWare french demo were they lost the fight ).

What matters to me is choice/consequence and I know there is in the game (Wrex).

''@captainfanboy - no... ''
Ohhh JMM, take a joke you sad bastard!
Ohh and Resistance, Genji, Lair, Heavenly Sword, and Eye of Judgement called, they'd like you to reread their reviews :)

@Krudster:
Sounds like Jade Empire again...

I wouldn't say my favourite format for combat (pref to KOTOR), but I know what you're saying.

@ Drakon
Agree - The best part of an RPG is the story and the ability to make choices in that story. Everything else comes second.

What makes an RPG, what makes a shooter, what makes an action game? Who cares guys? Why pidgeon-hole a game? It's obvious that people feel passionately about the game and will take different things from it.

*What makes an RPG

Statistics, it character skill over player skill .... even Oblivion combat puts character skill over player skill in terms of damage and abilities.

If Oblivion First Person Weapon Swinging/Bow Firing/Spell Casting does it, so does Mass Effect.

*what makes a shooter

Player skill, even few shooters put any restriction to the player outside weapon availability.

If you want to me to put Mass Effect in a category only in terms of combat I have to say that because possible to make the only character you control to auto target and auto target a player designated target a RPG.

BioWare said this is a action RPG, they also said you can play this as a shooter but its not recommended as such, perhaps some people with MAD SKILLS can complete the game as a strait shooter but the game basic mechanics and interface was designed for it to be a RPG.

Remarkable Krudster - your game experience seems to be exactly the same as mine so far! Wandering round the citadel doing silly stuff, then working out how to progress the story, then discovering the map (why did I ignore it was there for so long!!)

I think I enjoyed mindless wandering a little more than you did, mainly because I just loved the visuals - I haven't spent time in a game just wandering about for sheer beauties sake ever before. Architecturally it is really stunning - in a space 1999 sort of way. Galaxy map is great.

And I'm not too much of a sci-fi geek....Star Wars is the only DVD on my shelf.

6 hours in, so I'm looking forward to it getting even better.


Should just mention I hated KOTOR by the way.

"To clarify, I did use the special abilities quite a lot to begin with, then started experiementing not using them, and, to be honest, it seems to me that BioWare put them there to offer the illusion of RPG combat rather than making them integral to the outcome."

The same can probably be said of almost any RPG. In Oblivion, I rarely used anything other than my trusty sword and I probably could've gotten by only using that one weapon the whole game.

I'd like to know if someone with a retail version is having all of the same graphical issues as outlined in the review?

@bleeptest
lol
BioWare RPGs aren't for everyone =p I remember when Baldur's Gate was released, those who had no knowledge of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition ruleset was completely floored and ended up hating the game.

KOTOR was pretty much made the 3rd version of those rules. I guess ME and Jade Empire is there way of spreading out to mainstream crowd instead of catering to the US hardcore RPG market.

The only score I look at is the Metacritic score. It gets a 93/100 so far based on 23 reviews. That'll do for me. Seems like a lot more reviewers enjoyed the game than not. Definately buying it.

Oh shit. This looks like a popular one...

/reads review...

Krudster: "Having now played it through to completion..."


So you reviewed the game before actually completing it? And your original answers regarding questions about the length of the game were based upon the time someone from one of the Eurogamer sister sites claimed to have completed the game within, rather than the time you took yourself? Or have I misread your comments somehow?

Rounds "I'd like to know if someone with a retail version is having all of the same graphical issues as outlined in the review?"

In a previous post, the reviewer did state it was a retail copy.