Mass Effect Review

By Kristan Reed Published 19 November, 2007

Science friction.

Version tested: Xbox 360

When cuddly old Bob Hoskins said that it was 'good to talk', he was trying, in his loveable Cockney kind of way, to get us to rack up enormous phone bills. He wasn't advocating that using endless exposition was the best way to get you into space fairing action RPG epic. He'd probably politely tell them to 'shut iiiiit'.

My goodness, does Mass Effect love to talk - or at least it certainly does in the first few hours, as BioWare cranks up the cinematic dial up to 11 and sets a course for the heart of sci-fi-rama. A word of warning before we get underway: if you're not someone with Babylon 5 or even Firefly box sets displayed proudly on your shelves, early encounters with this earnest 'save the galaxy' quest might feel like hard work.

But even if the thought of another galaxy saving plot has your eyes rolling, it's a credit to the talents of BioWare that, eventually, not only will you start to tolerate it, but actually start to really enjoy this blend of narrative-heavy adventuring. Whether you've got the patience to spend the time chatting between the action segments is another matter. It's certainly not a game that promises instant thrills, that's for sure. You'll need to approach the game with the relaxed mentality of someone who enjoys a good story as much as they appreciate blowing things up. If you're the sort of person who twitches every time a cut-scene comes up in a game, this definitely isn't for you.

Hairy on the inside

'Mass Effect' Screenshot 1

Filthy minds. No, he's not having intercourse with that terminal.

The game kicks off with an opportunity to shape the kind of experience you want. You can either plump for the default elite human soldier, John Shepard, or spend a few minutes fiddling with the character creation system, and this can have a distinct bearing on the style of combat you'll be capable of.

First of all, you can choose from a three main classes, each with their own speciality. So there's Soldier (Combat), Engineer (Tech) and Adept (Biotic). Needless to say, the default soldier class makes it a whole lot easier to go in all guns blazing, with better health, the ability to wear better armour and access to the full range of weapons. Engineers, meanwhile, have a more hands-off approach, with the ability to heal the party and disable enemy's weapons and shields. And finally the Adept have a more Jedi-esque way of dealing with matters in hand, with the ability to lift enemies high into the air, or temporarily paralyse them.

But if you fancy choosing characters which lie somewhere between two classes, you also have the choice of Infiltrator (Combat/Tech), Vanguard (Biotic/Tech) and Sentinel (Biotic/Tech) - but, as handy as it is to have a character with multiple capabilities, you'll have to wrestle with the fact that they aren't quite as good at the true specialists. To add a personal touch, you can also customise the character's facial appearance by messing around with a familiar slider-based system with predictably hilarious results. Here, you can tweak their jawline, lips, nose, hair, and so on, to create the ugliest, scar-faced pinhead the galaxy has ever seen. Or, if you're in a rush to save the galaxy from traitorous sods, you could just dive straight into proceedings with the chiselled boy band escapee John Shepard and be done with it. Your call.

Spicy meatballs

'Mass Effect' Screenshot 2

Turtle-necks and all over stubble are cool in 2183.

From there, the game follows your galactic adventures aboard the SSV Normandy on the trail of the up-to-no-good Saren, and try and put a stop to his plans to utilise an ancient threat. Following a get-to-know-you wander around the confines of your swanky ship, your first taste of the action side of the game kicks off on Eden Prime to check out some curious shenanigans. Feeling not too dissimilar to grizzled old squad-based action adventure Brute Force, there's an initial sense of mild disappointment as you and your two comrades run around lush environments, unloading your assault rifle into the clueless Geth AI forces. Visually, it's well up to scratch, but at the cost of a pretty poor frame rate, rather unsatisfying combat, and an enemy which doesn't really put up much of a concerted fight. The first impressions certainly don't suggest Mass Effect should be talked about as a must-have game, but we pushed on in the hope that it could develop in to something a bit more meaty.

So, with standard two-stick, third-person controls, it's all pretty easy to get to grips with from the off, but with a couple of tweaks here and there to differentiate it from the standard run-and-gun action fodder. One thing you'll immediately note in among all this gun-toting is that all of your weapons have unlimited ammo, but with the trade-off of having to keep a close eye on the weapon's heat dissipation. With the lower-level weapons, in particular, you can't just wander around spraying bullets and expect to get away with it, so combat turns into a game of fire and retreat, as you learn to adapt to firing in steady, careful bursts. If you don't, your weapon becomes completely unusable for ten seconds or so - often with dire consequences if an enemy is charging at you.

Your arsenal

Another noteworthy design decision is the fact that you can carry your entire arsenal at once, but can only quick-select two. If, say, you decide you want to switch to a shotgun, then you have to hold down the left bumper, and this pauses the action, brings up a weapon selection ring and enables you to make an instant call on not only your own currently selected weapon, but your two squad-mates as well. More significant, though, are each character's special abilities, which you can select in the same way from the game's 'Power Wheel', which is accessible from the right bumper. Shepard, for instance, can make himself invincible for a few seconds, or revive downed team mates with his Unity ability. Every time you select an ability, it recharges over time, so you have to pick and choose the right time to pick one. Alternatively, the game lets you get by just fine without it, and your squaddies can be left to decide for themselves which ability to use and when. Again, your call - there's no real penalty to not micro-managing every combat situation, but it's there as an option if you want it.

'Mass Effect' Screenshot 3

Bobsleigh chic is also all the rage. Yeah.

Likewise, the game's experience system offers a great deal of choice over whether to distribute talent points whenever you level up, or leave the game to do it for you. For those of you that demand full control over each and every character's abilities, that's an option, or if you just want the computer to handle the AI but leave you to look after Shepard's development, that's possible too. Either way, the game rewards every kill and significant deed with XP, and, in time, your abilities across multiple disciplines will rise - both in combat terms and how successfully you're able to interact with the game's many NPCs.

As you'd expect from a BioWare title, character interaction is a massive part of the game, and helps give the game a far greater narrative depth than practically anything else on the 360. The new, refined dialogue system isn't quite the one that was described to the press during development, but nevertheless allows you to seamlessly and intuitively build up a conversation based on your overall attitude. For instance, the choices are usually based around being cooperative, middle of the road or hostile and intimidating, and the path you take during these chats can either work for or against you. There's often no right or wrong thing to do, ultimately, but your choices contribute towards your paragon or renegade ratings - with Achievements for being extreme in either direction.

Skip to the end...

'Mass Effect' Screenshot 4

Yeah, Garrus. And your breath mings. Floss, dammit.

While it's true that conversations can drag on a little bit when compared with your average videogame, the more you involve yourself in the events and actions in the game, the more you start to enjoy the characters in the game, and the less you resent having a little natter. A little investment of time in the Mass Effect world goes a long way, as it starts to erode the resistance you might have towards the cast, the storyline and the serious tone of the whole thing. Possibly the biggest mistake is that the game tries to throw you into that world too heavily too soon. For example, putting you in the confusing labyrinth of the Citadel early in the game doesn't help draw you in at all, with far too many non-plot-based missions offered to your before you've got a real handle of what the main game's all about.

You can literally spend hours just wandering around the central Citadel 'city' before it even dawns on you to get on with the main quest - and with so many characters to interact with, you may feasibly only have spent about 15 minutes of the first few hours of the game firing a gun in anger. With a bit more prodding from the game to move things along, it would have definitely helped draw more people into what it's really about, rather than just leaving you to your own devices, trudging around a space city chatting. As useful as the menu (and map) system becomes, at no stage does BioWare stop to explain this to the player. Players of lesser patience would surely give up, and that's a shame.

Once you really get to grips with what Mass Effect wants from you, it all slots into place brilliantly. You've essentially got the option to go off and do all these little non-essential sub-missions in various far-flung corners of the galaxy, or check out your journal and see where to head to next. Once you've set your course, you generally get dropped into the planet in your six-wheeled Mako vehicle, drive around for a bit and blast any Geth you come across.

Feeling like a Halo out-take, it's all a bit counter-intuitive to control (and liable to make the camera freak out if you go places it doesn't like), but with a built-in cannon and machine gun, it's often a whole lot easier and more effective to take out massive turrets and rocket-wielding Geth troopers than trying to do it on-foot. Quite often, though, you don't really have a choice, and you'll be forced to get out and take the fight to the Geth, bypassing security, opening gates or going into buildings.

As you might reasonably expect from a game with RPG leanings, the more you play it, the more fun it becomes. Your weapons get better, more accurate, less wobbly, more heat resistant, and enemies become correspondingly more challenging. From the rather rubbish initial encounters, the whole thing becomes far more involving, and the more you level up, the more you want to see how far you can go - even to the point of taking on the sub missions you'd previously overlooked.

Helping hands

'Mass Effect' Screenshot 5

Even aliens get down in the dumps about v-sync issues. Give him a cuddle.

In tandem with this is how much you start to care about the characters you take out with you. Without realising, you'll spend time tinkering with their loadout to make sure they've got the best equipment possible, ensuring that each has it own upgrades. And rather than just being mildly impressed at how pretty the game is, each new planet offers its own specific visual treats - some of the artwork must surely among the best we've been treated to. The facial detail is also, at times, absolutely wonderful, and adds no end to keeping you immersed during all the narrative segments. In terms of raw atmosphere, Mass Effect is a game that will really get under your skin - not just in the way that it creates a true sense of place to the locations, but in many other ways, notably the way the excellent soundtrack from Jack Wall adds greatly to the sense of drama as it unfolds. As with a lot of big-budget games of late, the efforts that have gone into making the whole thing as grand and cinematic as possible haven't gone to waste. Mark Meer as the male Shepard, Seth Green as Joker and Kimberly Brooks as Ashley are just a few of the voice-over highlights of a uniformly high quality effort from the cast.

That said, there's a feeling that BioWare was a little too ambitious for its own good at times. Some of the frame-rate issues, while not crippling, are certainly wince-worthy enough to make you wonder whether the game is truly ready. Halo 2/Gears of War-style texture pop-in is also rife throughout, and perhaps shows some the limitations of the 360 not having a hard disk as standard. Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, just why are the lifts so sloooooow throughout this game? The loading times aren't exactly bad in general, but sometimes the way you have to wait for mundane things like that to happen are strange, to say the least - not to mention boring. Also, what happened to the AI? Most of the time it's just plain dim, just standing around waiting to be shot, or charging idiotically at you. There's never the same feeling of satisfaction when you find yourself cutting a swathe through the hordes with barely any effort.

'Mass Effect' Screenshot 6

The all-the-rage over-the-shoulder combat is a bit of a let-down, mainly because the enemy AI is a bit undemanding.

Forced to stumble towards a conclusion, I'd say that despite the niggles, Mass Effect is most definitely a great game with an awful lot going for it - but one that doesn't quite deserve unquestioning praise. For what it achieves in delivering a compelling narrative and wonderful atmosphere, BioWare deserves a huge amount of credit, as there are few games that come anywhere near it in this regard. The dialogue system, and the impact it has on individual missions and the game as a whole is exceptional, adding greatly to the potential replay value. Where it doesn't quite hit the mark for me is in the action stakes. Although it underpins the game with all sorts of excellent ideas that ought to make it a deeper, more intelligent and immersive experience, the simple truth is that the minute-to-minute combat simply isn't as intense and involving as you'd expect from a game in 2007. Throw in some grumbles about the somewhat unoptimised state of the frame-rate, texture pop-in and v-syncing terrors, and it's a game that just falls short of our expectations. An eight, then, but a good one...

8 / 10

Dying to see more of Mass Effect in action? Stroll on over to EGTV for a look at various aspects of the game, including combat, conversation, and configuration.

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kristan.

About Kristan Reed

Kristan is a former editor of Eurogamer, dad, Stone Roses bore and Norwich City supporter who sometimes mutters optimistically about Team Silent getting back together.

Read more articles from Kristan by visiting the Kristan Reed archive page.

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Comments (464) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • BiscuitBase #1 4 years ago

    SOLD!

  • Paukl #2 4 years ago

    To be honest, after reading the review I'm surprised you even gave it an 8. It was fairly negative throughout.
    Edited by 2 at 19/11/07 @ 14:16

  • wayn3h #3 4 years ago

    omg soo many good games out lately. Still got Crysis, GoW (pc) and Portal to play through.

    >

  • HiddenAway #4 4 years ago

    From all the hype I've been hearing, I expected a 10 :S

  • Aretak #5 4 years ago

    They're coming.

  • Retroid #6 4 years ago

    /Hopes ShopTo ship his CE edition early

  • onyxbox #7 4 years ago

    Great review, nice to see a balanced and fair review.

  • Skooch #8 4 years ago

    Oh well, an eight is still a good game (better than Assassins - OK, shoot me now :)).

    I'm definitely going to give this a go - although getting a free copy certainly makes it an easier decision than having to part with 40 quid or so.

  • GitSomE_UK #9 4 years ago

    Oooh.. I thought this would have been a 10... still going to get it though... next year... bargain bin maybe.

    There's a hell of a lot I'm playing right now COD4, Orange, Zelda DS plus all the new bits I get for Xmas!!!

  • Cylinder #10 4 years ago

    I’m definitely picking this up when it hits PC, I just hope the wait isn’t too long…

  • Verwandlung #11 4 years ago

    Is this the game with the hot lesbian alien loser sex?
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:17

  • bdc #12 4 years ago

    Ooooh.

    I'm going to hide in my nuclear bunker I think. Not even going to try and troll this one.

  • KingOfSpain #13 4 years ago

    I respect that this is his opinion and everything but it does sound like he just doesn't "get" it. Which is a shame I suppose.

    Anywho, it's still mine.

  • fightman1 #14 4 years ago

    ha ha, disregard that, i suck cocks!

  • Triggerhappytel #15 4 years ago

    Expected higher than an eight on this. Should really go back and read the text now.

  • BadDevotions #16 4 years ago

    so if action isn't it's forté (sp?) then surely going for the jedi type class is the way to go???

    ranks 4th in my crimbo wish list of 360 games

  • JediMasterMalik #17 4 years ago

    Excellent review, I guess I'll wait for the PC version next year then. It was a fairly negative review, I guess it needed to be due the vast amounts of hype surrounding it. Still it sounds like if you like Western RPGs and have a 360, you should definitey try it.

  • toy_brain #18 4 years ago

    I'll be back home from work around 5pm, where I will have all the time in the world (well, evening) to read t'interweb.
    I expect 'great' things from this thread. If I dont see at least 200 replies of pure fanboy drivel I'll be asking for my money back.

    Get to it you tards!

  • teknohead #19 4 years ago

    I bought it on Sunday and finished it monday night...couldn't put the game down. I loved it.

  • phAge #20 4 years ago

    Off the chrimbo list it goes, then - can't STAND lousy framerates, pop-in and suchlikes. Ruins the suspension of disbelief much more than if they'd just turned down the fidelity of the GFX a notch or two. KNOW YOUR LIMITATIONS, DAMNIT!

  • smoothpete #21 4 years ago

    Good enough for me.

  • Eighthours #22 4 years ago

    Seems that the "green disc" review versions may have more issues than their retail counterparts. Guess we'll just have to wait and see on that one.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #23 4 years ago

    Ooooh, "only" an 8. Controversial...

    Still getting it. Don't care if the combat's crap, I don't want it for the combat, I want it for the RPG bits and the talky bits and the lesbian sex.

  • JediMasterMalik #24 4 years ago

    But if the combat's crap, then isn't that where all of your RPG bits go towards? Just a thought.

  • ZuluHero #25 4 years ago

    how many hours would you say the main plot has in it? 100 hours? 200?

  • glaeken #26 4 years ago

    Still getting it but the performance issues sound annoying. I wish they would scale back on the graphical detail a little to get the frame rates consistent. I would far rather have a good solid frame rate over something that looks prettier in screen shots.

  • JediMasterMalik #27 4 years ago

    Your spelling is worse than usual, bengali.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:34

  • JediMasterMalik #28 4 years ago

    @zulu - 15 to 20.

  • mkreku #29 4 years ago

    Good enough for me! This is a must!

  • deiseach #30 4 years ago

    Seems fair. It sounds like a souped-up Knights of the Old Republic without the instant hook of the Star Wars universe. That's good enough for me, but it won't appeal to everyone.

  • NickyJD #31 4 years ago

    Meh I'll go with IGN's 94% and Gametrailers 96%

    no offence but I don't trust your reviews, I played Sega rally and it was a boring piece of shit, I couldn't play it for more than 2 hours, only a few different tracks and insane difficulty later on, the 9/10 you gave it made me confused as hell. As did that other guys 10/10 for Halo 3, boring, over rated shit that's killed by COD4 which only gets 9/10.

    Mass effect is the best RPG on 360, best RPG this generation in fact, your review is just another attempt at hits, like your Gears of war review.

  • speedofthepuma #32 4 years ago

    What an excellent review. The text really gets accross the pros and cons. An eight sounds reasonable given the flaws but this is as close to a ten for me as possible according to the description.

  • Lexx87 #33 4 years ago

    I wish you guys would remember this is the thoughts of ONE person. Read around...Gamespy give it 10/10 (well 5/5) and others will differ.

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #34 4 years ago

    Loving it so far, but then I would - being a silly old BioWare fanboy. Will bump the difficulty to see if it makes much difference, but otherwise the score seems to be fair and on the money.

    Will still probably be one of my favourite games of the year.

  • Arcadiian #35 4 years ago

    @ JediMasterMalik.

    It's always amusing when people pick up on other peoples spelling, and then spell something wrong themselves.

    Though I am easily amused.

  • Olemak #36 4 years ago

    Maybe there'll be a PS3 version in a year or so? If so, they could do away with the loads and maybe tidy the combat up a little. Would be worth waiting for. Or a PC version, of course, whichever comes first, if they are going to improve on the original in the conversion.

  • gmmonkey #37 4 years ago

    Still buying this even though it's an 8. I take eurogamers scores as a reccomendation scale. Not a perfection scale. I've been reading about the texture problems elsewhere etc. Those things don't bother me as much as other people. Stil cant believe you guys gave halo 3 a ten though. That still bothers me. I take eurogamers scoring with a pinch of salt now. Though the assassins creed review was bang on.

  • JediMasterMalik #38 4 years ago

    It's always funny when people can't seperate spelling from grammar. ;)

  • woodnotes #39 4 years ago

    @ Olemak: This is published by MS

  • speedofthepuma #40 4 years ago

    @NatAttack - immersion is not only achievable via graphics.

  • Yossarian #41 4 years ago

    it's also funny when people can't spell separate

  • miiiguel #42 4 years ago

    Why are you talking about spelling and grammar ? Do you own a PS3, and are really, really bored ?

  • fightman #43 4 years ago

    this game is shit - go pay full price for it and enjoy it twats.

  • viper_h #44 4 years ago

    you spelled separate wrong, scmuck :p

  • krudster #45 4 years ago

    The main story is incredibly short for a BioWare game - having finished the main strand and faffed around a fair bit elsewhere, the game clock said 17 hrs 30 mins. On a speed run, you could easily do it in under 10.

    Also, one point I didn't make in the review - remember to keep saving your game. The checkpoints are infuiratingly few and far between, and death can often send you miles back.

  • Stranded87 #46 4 years ago

    Read like a 9 to me- imo it being dialogue heavy and lacking focus are if anything positives, (the Citadel description reminded me of how they dropped you into Amn early on in BG2 which personally i loved). So to me just about everything but the last paragraph or two was a positive. The technical issues i'm sure i can look past and will hopefully be patched and the combat according to a lot of other reviewers is actually pretty good so we'll have to wait and see there, although admittedly that part of the game has always looked pretty weak to me.

    The only major negative to me would be the AI.

    So reads like a 9 to me and i'm almost certain it will be a personal 10 and one of the best games of the year, if not the best, especially for RPG fans such as myself.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:42

  • Pulsar_t #47 4 years ago

    I was expecting a 9...

    This generation has been a disappointment from the get-go. We need the Japanese to make a solid comeback dammit! Western developers have disappointed us this year, with the exception of Naughty Dog perhaps.

  • Vin #48 4 years ago

    This still spanks the entire Wii Xmas line-up.

  • Dizzy #49 4 years ago

    I preordered this a long time ago. Can't wait to dive in.... all the people on my friends list seem to be playing this (damn Ozzies and Yanks). 8? I think this time EG is on the low side of the review score probably. Never mind.. kick ass game.

  • NickyJD #50 4 years ago

    And if you're going to do a Call of duty 4 review at least do it right, you said you would comment on the online portion of the game when you got to play people online, you missed it out completely in your review and rated the single player 9/10, with the Halo 3 beating multiplayer does it get 10/10 or not?

    where is the rest of the review and the 10/10 for the best FPS this generation?

  • JediMasterMalik #51 4 years ago

    Hah, so I did. Easy mistake to make.

    /leave me alone :(

    As far as the game goes, looks like another Gears as far as scoring goes, high scores almost everywhere else, with an EG 8. Make of that what you will.

  • miiiguel #52 4 years ago

    I loved Jade Empire, all of it. This has my name on it.

  • Pulsar_t #53 4 years ago

    While it's really a shame Bioshock and Halo 3 got tens, I still trust EG's reviews. Most others publications and websites are sellout .. NTSC-UK while being a low profile website also features some decent reviewers.

  • krudster #54 4 years ago

    There's a simple answer to that, NickyJD - I was tasked with reviewing this, therefore CoD4's multiplayer review can wait a little bit. I think we all already realise CoD 4 has wonderful multiplayer anyway. Sorry you hated Sega Rally, but plenty of people loved it, you just had to get further into it to really get the most out of it, like a lot of games. Like this one, in fact.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:48

  • ASHBERY76 #55 4 years ago

    It's shame Eurogamer review everything from a FPS perspective.They hated the Witcher,Assassins creed and now they diss MassEffect.Run and Gun seems the only way to get high scores here.

  • miiiguel #56 4 years ago

    "The main story is incredibly short for a BioWare game - having finished the main strand and faffed around a fair bit elsewhere, the game clock said 17 hrs 30 mins. On a speed run, you could easily do it in under 10."

    I really fail to understand why someone would have the need to "speed run" a game.
    I like to explore every bit.

  • Psychotext #57 4 years ago

    Damn you EG... your review may cause me to lose a bet on the metacritic score this one ends up with! =) Other reviews for anyone interested:

    EGM - 9, 9.5, 9
    GameInformer - 9.75
    OXM US - 10/10
    OXM Australia - 10/10
    Xbox World 360 - 90%
    IGN - 9.4
    Game Trailers - 9.6
    TeamXbox - 9.6
    CVG - 9.0
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:48

  • Madder-Max #58 4 years ago

    How come you gave this an 8? Did Bioware threaten to pop a cap in yo ass?

    /Puts mass effect purchase into the Probably Not Then' category with assasins creed.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:49

  • thewolfiv #59 4 years ago

    this and Creed, both lower than expected can it be that eurogamer is loosing it's touch? oh well i just got mario on my lowly wii, i'll stick with my favourite plumber for now and see what the internet says about this one...

  • BadDevotions #60 4 years ago

    @miiiguel

    Achievment whores I am afraid...

  • miiiguel #61 4 years ago

    Ok, so it's like:

    In "speed run-mode" 8/10
    In "proper-mode" 9/10

  • krudster #62 4 years ago

    Miiguel, you might be amused to note that speed running it will go a long way to getting all the achievement points, which is something you love doing after all...

  • Pulsar_t #63 4 years ago

    EGM - 9, 9.5, 9
    GameInformer - 9.75
    OXM US - 10/10
    OXM Australia - 10/10
    Xbox World 360 - 90%
    IGN - 9.4
    Game Trailers - 9.6
    TeamXbox - 9.6
    CVG - 9.0

    That list doesn't contain Edge or GamesTM! :p
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 14:52

  • Psychotext #64 4 years ago

    @Pulsar_t: We know that the list wont be truly complete until SDF have reviewed it!

  • Steroyd #65 4 years ago

    This generation has been a disappointment from the get-go. We need the Japanese to make a solid comeback dammit! Western developers have disappointed us this year, with the exception of Naughty Dog perhaps.

    The Japaneese's "current" generation is still of the PS2/Wii ilk.

  • Killerbee #66 4 years ago

    Sounds like this might be one that's worth waiting for the PC version - if that sorts out the frame rate, v-syncing and pop-up issues, that's one less minus point right there.

    And I for one think a good 17 hour game is far preferable to the all-too-common 40+ hour RPGs I never seem to have time to finish (or get bored of before the end).

    /still hasn't completed Oblivion

  • Steroyd #67 4 years ago

    We know that the list wont be truly complete until SDF have reviewed it!

    Well we all know EGM are Microsoft fanboys, and OXM gave ME a 10 STOP THE PRESS!

    Did I fill your quota? Or do I have to use my joke accounts. :D

  • JediMasterMalik #68 4 years ago

    @krud - What are the side-quests like? The 1up show didn't seem enthusiastic about them.

  • speedofthepuma #69 4 years ago

    @Nattattack:

    My point is one could argue immersion will not be affected by tearing as long as the narrative is strong enough. Yours is?

  • krudster #70 4 years ago

    Side quests aren't much to write home about. Drive around, pick up artefacts, shoot stuff. I didn't do all of them, but none of them linger in the memory. Just a good way of levelling up as far as I can tell, with some minor narrative benefits.

  • Triggerhappytel #71 4 years ago

    NickyJD - "no offence but I don't trust your reviews"

    So why do you come here?

  • miiiguel #72 4 years ago

    krudster: I never "speed run" a game, and yes I like to do Achievements, but that's because they give me an incentive to play it "properly"
    I have fewer game than most, but I must have played more than 40h each. I could have more - fortunatly I can afford - but I just like to play them fully, never ever "speed run".
    Then again, not judging.

    Please don't ostracize me for the Achievements, it's a personal hobby, not a "competitive thing".
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 15:01

  • tonynibbles #73 4 years ago

    Not as good as Uncharted?

    /waits for inevitable PC release

  • Psychotext #74 4 years ago

    @Steroyd: I'd like a couple of joke account posts please! =)

    (at least here you don't have that sneaky avatar!)

  • JediMasterMalik #75 4 years ago

    @speedofthepuma - If that's your point, then it's quite silly. How could tearing and framerate issues, NOT effect immersion. This is a videogame after all, and not a book.

  • NickyJD #76 4 years ago

    Gamespy 5/5

    It's a rare thing when a game comes along with the power to move a player emotionally. Warts and all, you'll want to experience Mass Effect if you have any interest at all in enjoying one of the greatest efforts that modern videogaming has to offer. Mass Effect takes interactive entertainment to breathtaking new heights and is wholeheartedly recommended. This is one of the best games of the year, and will undoubtedly be remembered as one of the greatest games ever made.

    this game rocks, end of story.

  • bushwod #77 4 years ago

    @Vin "This still spanks the entire Wii Xmas line-up."

    Errrr, no it doesn't.

  • JediMasterMalik #78 4 years ago

    Thanks Krud, doesn't sound as bad as they made it out to be, while being a bit pointless.

  • krudster #79 4 years ago

    Oblivion, by a country mile.

  • Lukus #80 4 years ago

    This site seems to have been invaded by some complete and utter morons of late (I blame the COD4 beta)- Since when was 8 a bad score?

  • speedofthepuma #81 4 years ago

    @ JMM. My point is it is in no way crucial. We assume because it is part of the medium that graphical glitches are ruinous. They are not.

  • Robsabbaggio #82 4 years ago

    After reading the review, the thing that stuck out for me was the reviewer didnt seem to acknowledge that the game is an RPG first. The reviewer seemed to want a fast paced shooter. Otherwise, why would aspects like "dialogue-heavy" and "slow paced" be treated as negatives?

    There are enough shooters out there as it is, not every game should be reviewed from the perspective that it should get marked down as shooters might get bored with it.

    Most RPG fans wont be bothered too much about the combat. I much prefer to concentrate on the story, characters, decisions, plot etc. I loved KOTOR and Neverwinter Nights, and the combat wasnt the reason.

    Sorry if that isnt the case, but its what I got from the review.

    In any case, I got an xbox with this game in mind, and nothing I have read changes my mind that this will be a game I will love.

  • krudster #83 4 years ago

    No, not as full-on entertaining as Uncharted. No chance, but you're comparing two games so utterly different as to make any meaningful comparsion redundant.

    You shoot stuff, in third person, but that's about the only similarity.

  • bicky316 #84 4 years ago

    "/Puts mass effect purchase into the Probably Not Then' category with assasins creed."

    So if a game doesnt get 9 or 10/10 you're not interested? You'are missing out big time!!

  • Triggerhappytel #85 4 years ago

    I'll be interested to see what Edge and gamesTM give this. After gTM's nine for KotOR 2, I expect a nine for this, and probably an eight or maybe a seven from Edge.

    Also wonder what they will score Assassin's Creed.

  • PearOfAnguish #86 4 years ago

    "this and Creed, both lower than expected can it be that eurogamer is loosing it's touch?"

    Could it be that those games had been overhyped? Could it be that because a reviewers opinion does not match your expectations of a game, you start talking bollocks? Could it be 8/10 isn't actually a bad score?


    p.s it's LOSING not LOOSING
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 15:08

  • krudster #87 4 years ago

    The thing is...the game puts the action front and centre. *Every single mission* is a third person action romp, so the game has to be judged as an action game first, with role playing elements playing a less significant part.

    Mass Effect is no more an RPG than something like Devil May Cry. Kills level up the weapons. Mass Effect just happens to have a heavy narrative element, which I liked a lot. If you know my tastes at all, you'll know that I have nothing against slow-paced games with a large story element.

  • foamy #88 4 years ago

    Getting it, no matter what.

    Nevertheless, I was hoping you would talk more about RPG factors, like your opinion about the story (good, bad, excellent, common, whichever), how the exploration of the world was, etc. You seemed to talk more about the action part than actually the part that mattered (RPG part :/).


    Edit: Robsabbaggio, +1
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 15:10

  • krudster #89 4 years ago

    The review's 2,500 words long as it is. The story is excellent, but that's all you need to know, or you get into the realms of spoiler. Exploration isn't much of a key factor in the game, therefore it wasn't mentioned.

  • JYM60 #90 4 years ago

    ""Ok, so it's like:

    In "speed run-mode" 8/10
    In "proper-mode" 9/10""

    Desperation. I like it.

    8 isn't bad. Just not as good as 9. :)

  • Stranded87 #91 4 years ago

    'Oblivion, by a country mile.'

    Ah good, that almost makes me more certain i'll like Mass Effect, either that or i'm going to hate it. To me Oblivion was pretty much the antithesis of what i love about RPG's.

    Which isn't to say i think it's a bad game, just a highly flawed game and one that doesn't appeal much to my personal tastes.

    I did however love Morrowind.

  • speedofthepuma #92 4 years ago

    "My point is however immersive the story/music and so on are; if there is texture pop-in and tearing, it spoils what good the story is doing, it takes me out of the game."

    Then we can agree to disagree. I suspend my disbelief actively in almost all media to try and avoid such problems and I manage quite well with those 2 issues.

  • miiiguel #93 4 years ago

    ""Ok, so it's like:

    In "speed run-mode" 8/10
    In "proper-mode" 9/10""

    Desperation. I like it.



    Shit, you got me..., I have to pop 5 Xanax's today, because EG gave 8 to Mass Effect.
    I'll cancel my pre-order and I'll buy 4x PS3's while at it.

  • pjmaybe #94 4 years ago

    Blimey! MORE mentions of V-Synch issues. Hooray, at last EG is giving developers a bit of a hoofing about it, even if no one else is (well aside from us lot on AATG of course)

    Peej

  • mkreku #95 4 years ago

    So no exploration and more shooter than RPG? Are you serious..?

  • NickyJD #96 4 years ago

    I'm sorry for jumping on you over this review, I just don't know who to believe anymore, some people like Gamespy say this game is one of the best ever and give it a perfect score, then you say it's 8/10.

    Some people say Assassin's Creed is great , some say it's crap.

    I guess I should just forget what other people think about games as it just makes me confused, your review is fine, sorry to target you in such a stupid way. I've always let review scores bother me for some reason, and Eurogamers reviews in particular, I guess that means I respect your reviews more than most other sites, which is why they get under my skin at times.

    Yeah I need to get out more.

  • foamy #97 4 years ago

    Krudster, sorry about the english, but try to understand.

    If you're reviewing an RPG, based on action standards don't you think the review may come out as a bad review? As you people often say, you're gamers, so, in a role of a gamer who's buying this, don't you think you should review it for what the people are buying it for? I.e. the RPG stuff.

    It's obvious no game is an exclusive genre anymore, but reviewing this as an action game with RPG elements, had to turn out wrong.

    Just my opinion though.

    PS: Not that it is a bad review. I consider EG to be the best videogame's site, and with the best writers/reviewers worldwide, it just missed the point, imho.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 15:23

  • lambtron #98 4 years ago

    "Mass Effect is no more an RPG than something like Devil May Cry."

    hmm.

  • krudster #99 4 years ago

    I'm just reviewing the game for what it is, not what RPG fans want it to be. It's an action game, with RPG elements, not the other way around.

  • SeesThroughAll #100 4 years ago

    Oh dear, the "mine is bigger than yours" brigade is already started.

    About the texture pop-ins. Does the game properly cache from the HDD when one is available, or did you test the game as if played from a Core 360?

  • Rizo #101 4 years ago

    Going to pick this up cheap in the new year :)

    Thanks for saving me some monies :)

  • krudster #102 4 years ago

    Nah, it was reviewed from a retail Elite box, using finished code, not green 'review' code, or anything unfinished.

  • Pike #103 4 years ago

    "Some technical issues and RPG aspects not dumbed down enough for a console audience - 8/10"

  • Steroyd #104 4 years ago

    This site seems to have been invaded by some complete and utter morons of late (I blame the COD4 beta)- Since when was 8 a bad score?

    It's not that it's a bad score it's just that everyone was expecting ME to be up there with Halo and Bioshock in getting unanimous praise from every publication.

    ""Ok, so it's like:

    In "speed run-mode" 8/10
    In "proper-mode" 9/10""

    Wow...just... Wow.

  • bicky316 #105 4 years ago

    foamy - "Krudster, sorry about the english, but try to understand. "

    WTF?! Your post is about the most articulate 1 so far in this thread!

  • thedaveeyres #106 4 years ago

    Moan moan moan...

    Thank the lord you lot haven't found your way onto the forums ;P

  • JediMasterMalik #107 4 years ago

    @thedaveeyres - Don't tell them!!

  • smoothn00dle #108 4 years ago

    People start crying!

  • BrokenSymmetry #109 4 years ago

    krudster: 'Oblivion, by a country mile.'

    Stranded87: 'Ah good, that almost makes me more certain i'll like Mass Effect, either that or i'm going to hate it. To me Oblivion was pretty much the antithesis of what i love about RPG's.'

    My thoughts exactly.

  • weeno #110 4 years ago

    Just watched the gametrailers review, and this game looks absolutely gorgeous! Can't wait to sink my teeth into it. Sorry EG, but my opinions are usually more in line with their reviews than yours. A high 8's a good score though, so either way it looks like I will really enjoy this game.

  • miiiguel #111 4 years ago

    360's doomed! ME got an 8 at EG.

  • hiddenranbir #112 4 years ago

    Sounds like you weren't happy this was a RPG.

    Strange review.

  • betahoven #113 4 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:36:16 17-12-2011

  • JYM60 #114 4 years ago

    ""360's doomed! ME got an 8 at EG. ""

    If you don't care then stfu.


  • foamy #115 4 years ago

    krudster, my opinion stands, as will yours, certainly.

    An 8 from EG is good enough for me.

  • miiiguel #116 4 years ago

    JYM60: I care a lot, why you say I don't ?! and what's "stfu" ? If it's something in the likes of "porque no the callas", it misses the iconoclastic royalty of the later.
    Edited by 2 at 19/11/07 @ 15:52

  • krudster #117 4 years ago

    Lavalant. Well done sir, post of the day.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 15:49

  • Gurgeh #118 4 years ago

    "Mass Effect is no more an RPG than something like Devil May Cry"

    Umm. Please put this quote in your CV.

  • jozz #119 4 years ago

    I'm not going to moan about a review because an 8 is indeed a good score etc.
    It's just these two quotes raised an eyebrow slightly:

    "Mass Effect is no more an RPG than something like Devil May Cry."

    "Exploration isn't much of a key factor in the game, therefore it wasn't mentioned."

    Those can't be accurate surely?

  • peteb #120 4 years ago

    I wonder could the niggles be fixed with a patch? or are they too severe?

  • JYM60 #121 4 years ago


    ""mass effect is epic, I could care less about load times, frame rate, story gameplay is what counts in a great rpg and you deducted marks like some chav gamers, go back to halo3""

    Obviously story and gameplay are the main factors. If they were crap the game would be like a 3 or something but load times and tearing are important.

    Imagine watching a film (which may have a great story and great actors) but if the screen was tearing in half and the film had long pauses in between scenes it would not be so good.

    You just want to carry on with the game and the story. And in a game which is heavily story based graphics are important, tearing is a dissapointment.

  • w00t #122 4 years ago

    I blame the lack of a hard drive as standard on the 360 for the technical issues...

    But I shall be buying this and enjoying it oh so much.

  • dudefella #123 4 years ago

    First EG gives Assassin's Creed a bleeding 7 (which I found WAY too low), now Mass Effect 'only' an 8. Let's hope they underrated this as they did AC (in my eyes).

  • zozart #124 4 years ago

    7 for Assassin's Creed (which I love, and think is a 10) and an eight for this... I'm starting to get out of touch with Eurogamer's scores. :(

  • peteb #125 4 years ago

    i was ready to disagree with ACs score here, but then i woke up one night saying "thank god you came when you did, otherwise they would have made off with me" and "altair, it seems some of my students still don't know what it is to use a blade", and thought, "u know, maybe 7 isnt so far off."
    Edited by 2 at 19/11/07 @ 16:03

  • groovychainsaw #126 4 years ago

    Why oh why do bioware insist on jamming in rubbish combat in all their console RPGs? All the best bits in KoToR 1+2 were in the story, jade empire sorely weakened their RPG credentials, and now they turn a promising sci-fi rpg into a.n.other shooter. I'm still getting it, in the vain hope that the plot and dialogue will carry me through the game. I wish they didn't pander to the teenage gears of war brigade however....

  • L42yB #127 4 years ago

    @peteb - lol :) It's still better than a 7 tho...

  • Eighthours #128 4 years ago

    I wonder if there will be a sneaky auto-update on launch day to fix some of the glitches. There have been in a few other 360 titles recently.

  • peteb #129 4 years ago

    @L42yB

    Yea you're probably right, i do enjoy it, although those parts do grate a bit. haven't finished it yet though!

  • NickyJD #130 4 years ago

    Mass effect cannot be compared to DMC, sorry. We are all human and make mistakes so I will let that one go. You can compare Ninja Gaiden, God Hand, God of war to DMC, but not Mass effect.

    I feel that you've come away from playing Mass effect with very strange opinions of the game that not many people can relate to or will agree with. It's like saying Mario Kart is a fighting game, just because you can hit people with fireballs doesn't mean it's a fighting game like Streetfighter, same way Mass effect isn't a action game like DMC because you can shoot people.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:08

  • General_Zod #131 4 years ago

    Whats also brilliant is most of the people defending Mass Effect's "honour" probably have not even played it.

  • neuroniky #132 4 years ago

    From the review, this game reminds me of Jade Empire, a game that I profoundly loved from the story viewpoint, but which was just meh from the gameplay viewpoint. I think Bioware mad a big mistake when decided to move on from the system that they used in KOTOR (real time resolution of action chosen basically pausing the game) in favour of pure realtime games... but, that said, I will still get this because I'm a Sci-Fi lover, and I'm sure I'll love the story in this one.

  • Feet #133 4 years ago

    I would much rather see gamers under-rated, than over-rated.

    8\10 is a great score, I'll still be getting it.

  • krudster #134 4 years ago

    Wow jstar, it's a "fact" is it? Can I borrow your crystal ball?

    We don't knock off a point for 'hype'. I've not been the victim of any hype on this game, and never even saw it at preview stage. I gave it a score that I'll stand by. If you disagree when you play it, that's your call. I also know Tom doesn't take any notice of hype either. We're often too busy reviewing games coming out now to even worry about the next crop.

  • krudster #135 4 years ago

    Way to take the comment out of context!

    DMC is nothing like ME, and I wouldn't suggest it was. I'm just saying ME is an action game with RPG elements. DMC is a fighting game with an RPG experience system. If you look at the core gameplay of Mass Effect's missions, it's about 95% action, with a small, albeit significant XP system underlying it. Outside of the missions, it's more like an adventure game, again, bearing very little resemblance to what people associate with RPGs.

    RPG is a meaningless term if we lazily refer to Mass Effect as an RPG. It's evidently a hybrid action adventure RPG.

    Remember, eyes are your friends.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:16

  • BigBadB #136 4 years ago

    On the off-chance that a Eurogamer editor might actually trawl through these comments (unlikely, I know), I'd like to make a request:

    When allocating reviews, please try to give games to people who know something about their genre. At the very least, please try to avoid giving a sci-fi game to a reviewer who makes it clear in the first few paras that he thinks sci-fi is a bit naff and uncool.

    I love sci-fi, and am old enough to have a real soft-spot for the sci-fi action movies of the 80s that were a particular inspiration for (and influence on) Mass Effect. You'll forgive me, then, if the opinions of someone who has to 'tolerate' the sci-fi elements in the game are of little use and even less interest to me.

    Sheesh.

  • Tomnd #137 4 years ago

    typical shoddy ea game ;)

  • L42yB #138 4 years ago

    @peteb - I think Assassins Creed could have been a 10, if they had sorted out just a few of the little problems (like the repetitive dialog, limited number of investigations and overall repetitiveness of the game) but what they have put out is still amazing and I am it enjoying thouroughly :)

    @General_Zod - Tis what I was thinking too... surely all these people haven't played it a great deal (or at all) yet... but I guess you never know. I will still be buying this as the RPG selection on the 360 is still very limited and I need my fix! (Two Worlds did not do it for me). Tbh, I hope that the review is wrong or biased... Eurogamer have recently given scores that I completely disagreed with to a number of games, so I am hoping this could still be a 10/10 :) Just maybe?

    *fingers crossed*

  • krudster #139 4 years ago

    BigBadB, I am the editor. Your point is that we should give it to a sci-fi nut. Why? So they'd give it a better score? I review games regardless of themes, whether it's gangster themes, Wild West, medieval, whatever. A good story is a good story regardless of theme, and I enjoyed the story immensely.

    The gameplay, however, isn't amazing. End of story.

  • riz23 #140 4 years ago

    @Krudster: Did you ensure the line "Once you really get to grips with what Mass Effect wants from you, it all slots into place brilliantly" was at the beginning of Page 3 intentionally? It paces the review quite well, Pages 1-2 build the feeling of negativity and then Page 3, relieves the tension. Well for some anyway, judging by the comments ;-)

  • krudster #141 4 years ago

    Whatever, play the game and make your own distinctions. Haggling over which specifc sub genre it may or may not belong to is pretty dull, tbh.

  • Pike #142 4 years ago

    Outside of the missions, it's more like an adventure game, again, bearing very little resemblance to what people associate with RPGs.

    A game like Mass Effect, with branching storylines and and player choice influencing the narrative are far more important when determining if a game fits under the RPG banner than just some stat increases a la Ninja Gaiden.

    I haven't played Mass Effect yet, but if the narrative structure resembles KotOR and Jade Empire it's much more of an RPG than a game like Oblivion, despite the action oriented combat.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:23

  • miiiguel #143 4 years ago

    With due respect to EG its reviwers and mod-wannabes...: did Gears lost its cult status (that it has in fact - fact!) because it got an 8 @ EG ? Did it underperformed financially ? I don't think so (last time I checked).
    So..., play the game, have fun (or wait for the "XXX definitive version" on a system of your choice).

    I can't understand some scores in here like 5/10 on Blue Dragon; 9/10 on VF5 (wtf!!! slow motion cat-fights ?)... 8/10 on PES (clearly broken game)..., but hey..., I bought a Zune ffs - what's weirder than that ?
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:31

  • smurphs #144 4 years ago

    Nuts, I was hoping that this would be a true successor to Deus Ex, one of my faves of all time. The thing about Deus was that it had an enormous back story but you could completely ignore it and just play it as an action RPG.

    Shame. Maybe once the kids have grown up I'll have the time to try it, but somehow I doubt my xbox will last that long :-)

    p.s. I agree with the earlier post(s), a good framerate and lack of tearing should definitely take precedence over graphical bling.

  • Monkey_Puncher #145 4 years ago

    So you concentrated more on the action than the RPG?

    Interesting way of reviewing an RPG...

  • BigBadB #146 4 years ago

    Krudster said:

    "BigBadB, I am the editor. Your point is that we should give it to a sci-fi nut. Why? So they'd give it a better score? I review games regardless of themes, whether it's gangster themes, Wild West, medieval, whatever."

    You'll notice that I asked for someone who knows about sci-fi, or at the very least doesn't have a bias against it, not for a 'sci-fi nut'. I don't want a reviewer who's biased towards a game any more than I want a reviewer who's biased against it.

    That said, I'd always rather hear the opinion of someone who has an extensive knowledge of what they're reviewing than someone who doesn't - a review of an FPS from someone whos never played an FPS is inherently less likely to be useful than a review from someone who's played every major FPS since Doom.

    Exactly the same applies to the fictional genre of a game. A review of Mass Effect from someone who isn't biased against sci-fi is likely to be a lot more interesting and useful to the target audience of the game than one from someone who likes to take cheap shots at sci-fi fans.

    "A good story is a good story regardless of theme, and I enjoyed the story immensely."

    In which case, why waste time taking a pop at the story for being sci-fi in the opening paras (those most likely to be read by the majority)?


    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:39

  • peteb #147 4 years ago

    i think an 8 represents an "if you want to like it or really like this sort of game then 9" anyway. its when scores go below 8 that i think its more of an issue for these people too, in my opinion anyway.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:42

  • ZuluHero #148 4 years ago

    erm.. i wasn't aware that he did have a pop at the sci-fi setting and story :S

    /re-reads with confusion

  • ecureuil #149 4 years ago

    Typical, the probably come on the inferior 360 hardware. If this was on PS3, the HDD and bluray would make this game perfect, it's a shame the 360 can't keep up, it's just not powerful enough.

  • peteb #150 4 years ago

    @ecureuil

    you've been waiting all year to say that i bet :)

  • KingOfIceland #151 4 years ago

    Still getting it though

  • Azazel #152 4 years ago

    For what it achieves in delivering a compelling narrative and wonderful atmosphere, BioWare deserves a huge amount of credit, as there are few games that come anywhere near it in this regard.

    Sold.

  • Guv #153 4 years ago

    @ecureuil

    I tink I taw a troll!

  • JediMasterMalik #154 4 years ago

    Trolling status:

    "I'm making a note here: Huge Success"

    /high fives ecu

  • Goodfella #155 4 years ago

    Well, I've played the game and I 100% agree with krudster. Great story but really not great gameplay (which is mostly shooting) oh and the technical issues, oh dear. Bioware don't seem capable of making games with a decent framerate.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:48

  • krudster #156 4 years ago

    Wow, sane comment from *someone who has played it*. Others please take note.

    For the record, I like sci-fi, I just don't have a shelf full of it.

  • UncleLou #157 4 years ago

    Good read.

    The amount of dialogues is one of the problems I have with Bioware's games - now I don't mind long dialogues as such (with Planescape: Torment being my favourite RGP), but Bioware don't have quite the writing abilities to make overly long dialogues interesting, and I never liked how every NPC in their games begins with telling you the whole story of his/her life immediately after you meet them.

    krudster, if you're still reading this: how much sense of exploration is there in the game? That's one of the problems I had with Kotor, that most maps were corridors, even outside.

    All that said, the game looks wonderful, and I'd buy it immediately if I had a 360. Terrific artstyle, too, the best Bioware has ever come up with.

  • peteb #158 4 years ago

    should we block comments on reviews until game release then? :-P

    i suppose people just love to moan, in fairness!
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 16:55

  • JediMasterMalik #159 4 years ago

    Yeah, love the art style.

  • Xerx3s #160 4 years ago

    Some people are so desperate that they even jump at the chance to slag a 'lowly 8'. It's quite amusing. Especially the ones that claim to play this next year on the pc. A comment could be made on ut but it would be rude to burst their bubble.

  • Erinan #161 4 years ago

    Wait, 8/10 (and it's "a good 8";) is pretty good, I don't get it. And how many people exactly have played the game here? Oo
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 17:00

  • mezzomorto #162 4 years ago

    +10 for miiguel

    Working the obscure (for the rest of Europe I presume) "porque no te callas" into the ME thread...

  • KingKongBassett #163 4 years ago

    "Wow, sane comment from *someone who has played it*. Others please take note."

    If you don't like having your reviews pulled apart, don't write them. Or, at the very least, close the comments function.

  • Pike #164 4 years ago

    I can think of very few developers that do better dilouge than Bioware, UL, partly due to the generaly low standards in the medium so far. Admittedly they can sometimes take a turn towards a bit stilted conversations, but ingeneral the writing is pretty damned good in their games, IMO.

    The only ones that beats them are Obsidian and the sadly defunct Troika.

  • FooAtari #165 4 years ago

    Another review of a hyped game, another predictable comments thread.

    8 is a good score. Just because a few other sites give a game a certain score, doesn't mean all sites should fall in line. Otherwise the whole idea of reviews would be a bit pointless. I haven't played the game, so don't have an opinion on who I feel is right or wrong. Just that, in general, no multi-format site is more or less wrong than the other. Everyone has their own ideas of what is good and bad.

    A review is just a guide of what a game is like. You will never agree with them all, get over it.

  • Azazel #166 4 years ago

    READ. THE. WORDS.

  • OfficialBlue #167 4 years ago

    You xbots are almost laughable! When a hyped game for the PS3 comes out and you go crazy! i.e. "PS3 is shit" and when ME gets an 8 ur like "SOLD!" sad i think so! Anyway can't wait to pick ME on thursday!

  • wanksta10 #168 4 years ago

    brillient that the reviewer didn't get caught up in all the hype surrounding this game, the 'killer-app' of 2007 maybe isn't as great as being made out.
    i am still definately going to buy the game, and i already felt, just from watching the gameplay concerning the combat, that it wouldn't be upto scratch.
    Even the A.I isn't surprising when considering a game as big as this.
    BUT...
    if you're someone who wants to play while enjoying what seems like a really engrossin g story, then this is the right thing.
    as the reviewer says, the game wont be for everyone, but for those who know it is, then it will probs still be the game of the year without doubt

  • Pike #169 4 years ago

    I did read the words. The words are the problem, not the score.

  • JediMasterMalik #170 4 years ago

    @Xerx3s - OI! And I wasn't slagging the review! Besides, it will be coming to the PC, it's just a matter of time.

  • catterz #171 4 years ago

    It strikes me that bad framerates will put people off of a game.

    "Great story, nicely implemented, but I lost a framerate every now and then so fuck it, it's going in the bin"

    I'm sure my copy will be dropping through the letterbox this Thursday as always from Gameplay.

  • PameBoy #172 4 years ago

    I don't understand how it can be a "shooter with RPG elements" when you state in the review that of the first few hours, only 15 minutes is spent shooting anything?

    I think we're at odds with our definitions here. You seem to be treating "RPG" in purely technical terms - an RPG involves an experience counter that makes you level up. In my eyes, an RPG - role-playing game - involves heavy dialogue, lots of plot exposition, and making choices about your actions that represent the kind of character you want to create.

    "Role-playing" is not a gameplay mechanic. Devil May Cry has precisely nothing to do with RPGs. It doesn't even have "RPG elements". It has a system whereby you gain new combat abilities as the game goes on. Yes, that mechanic happens to have originated with RPGs, but just because a game involves the shooting of guns doesn't make it a shooter. (I should point out that I, myself, am not a particular fan of any one genre and try to avoid contact with both dungeons *and* dragons, but I do think a well-told story makes a better experience than an enemy that can roll sideways while its mate runs behind you).

    Anyway I agree that arguing genre semantics is deeply boring but I must also agree that targeting the action-shooter crowd in a review of something that clearly is an RPG (and yes, I have played it) is at least bound to cause an allergic flaring-up of the comments section.

    Anyway I was definitely surprised to hear that the game is sub-20 hours in length. I tend to get deeply bored of anything longer than that these days and I was under the impression we were in for a 100-hour epic here, so I'll definitely pick it up.

    And for all you whingeing little hype-toads, 8 is a VERY GOOD score. So SHUT UP AND ENJOY IT. Or else.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 17:10

  • Grogmonkey #173 4 years ago

    Having read the Assassin's Creed review and played a fair chunk of the game (15 hours up), I disagree with the score EG gave. Having read the review of Mass Effect and judging it against my own expectations, I suspect that once again I'll disagree with the score. All this proves is:

    a) As an individual, I am different to the people at EG Towers.

    b) My own game-judging powers are more meaningful to me personally than a review written by someone I've never met.

    This review neither tarnishes my potential enjoyment of this game, nor invalidates krudster's views. I'd like to think we're all people with our own views on everything, rather than people desperate to have our existences validated by other peoples' opinions.

    Like the Pirates Code, reviews are more like guidelines, anyway.

  • the_tellurian #174 4 years ago

    The only thing good about this is that if ME doesn't live up to expectations I won't feel like the odd one out.
    Seriously though, the last paragraph could/should have been in the Bioshock review, just as the score. That way Eurogamer scores would have stayed something I could believe in. After Bioshock, EG sadly has lost credibility. I've never been this disappointed by a game before.
    Mass Effect... Sheesh... I'll see when I've actually played it. My gut reaction to this review and score is "You're wrong!" - but the bright side is that it's taking some of the hype away and readies me for yet another huge letdown.

  • Drakron #175 4 years ago

    Oblivion got a 10 ... enough said.

  • Dizzy #176 4 years ago

    >Anyway I was definitely surprised to hear that the game is sub-20 hours in length

    A lot of people playing this seem to state this is a 30+ hour game (even without the sub quests).

  • vane101 #177 4 years ago

    IGN made similar comment in its review. Disappointing but still worthy. I wasn't happy about Oblivion either. Still no truly great Xbox 360 game for me yet.

  • TRUTH #178 4 years ago

    GameSpy 11/19/2007 - 5 out of 5

    IGN 11/19/2007 - 9.4 out of 10

    Electronic Gaming Monthly 12/25/2007 - 9.17 out of 10

    Official Xbox Magazine 10 out of 10

    Game Informer 11/1/2007 - 9.75 out of 10

    Eurogamer 11/19/2007 - 8 out of 10

    Gamer 11/19/2007 - 9.2 out of 10

    Cheat Code Central 11/18/2007 - 4.8 out of 5
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 17:37

  • Azazel #179 4 years ago

    Oblivion got a 10 ... enough said.

    You make an interesting point...

  • Azazel #180 4 years ago

    Arg Stats! Min eyes!

  • miiiguel #181 4 years ago

    "the 'killer-app' of 2007", wasn't that Halo 3?

    We do have short-term memory.

  • LPXO #182 4 years ago

    By the sounds of things it's almost a 9 anyway so Ill treat it as such and expect to find it in my stocking

  • miiiguel #183 4 years ago

    "@Xerx3s - OI! And I wasn't slagging the review! Besides, it will be coming to the PC, it's just a matter of time."

    It'll get as much attention as Jade Empire had, and you most likely play it like you played the later.
    Let's be honest, the wait thing doesn't really work very well, imo.

  • smoothn00dle #184 4 years ago

    GameSpy, IGN, Official Xbox(of course) Magazine famously for cocksucker review to please whoever. IGN rating on God Hand was bad call.

    Gamer and Cheat Code Central, I never heard of it, are they good?

    Is there any review website that rate game review?

    Now I wonder what Gamespot will give?

  • Shrike #185 4 years ago

    I haven't done this before but I feel like I have to join others in the "conscientious moaning" camp.. I'm going to quote a few lines from the first and second (the most negative) pages..

    "My goodness, does Mass Effect love to talk - or at least it certainly does in the first few hours.."

    "it's a credit to the talents of BioWare that, eventually, not only will you start to tolerate it, but actually start to really enjoy this blend of narrative-heavy adventuring. Whether you've got the patience to spend the time chatting between the action segments is another matter. It's certainly not a game that promises instant thrills, that's for sure.."

    "If you're the sort of person who twitches every time a cut-scene comes up in a game, this definitely isn't for you."

    That's all within the first half a page. Moving on:

    "Or, if you're in a rush to save the galaxy from traitorous sods, you could just dive straight into proceedings with the chiselled boy band escapee John Shepard and be done with it. Your call."

    "While it's true that conversations can drag on a little bit when compared with your average videogame.."

    "You can literally spend hours just wandering around the central Citadel 'city' before it even dawns on you to get on with the main quest.."

    And so on. There's a theme of "the game drags a bit" that pervades the entire review, and with full appreciation for the task set before game critics nowadays, could it not simply be a case that if you're playing Mass Effect to a deadline, you'll enjoy it less? If I spend £30-£40 buying the game new, I'm damn sure going to eke every last bit of entertainment out of it - being presented with a wide-open game straight away isn't going to make me think "oh shit, how do I assign a numerical score to this" but "I think I am getting my money's worth."

    I love Baldur's Gate 2, but if I was under pressure to stripmine it for all it's content I'd probably see it as the most insipid, prevaricating, pretentious piece of crap ever to be pressed on to (too many) CDs. Did Bioshock do as well as it did because you could basically see everything there was to see in one straightforward run-through? Linear games do well in reviews, providing - like Bioshock - that they give the illusion of having more to do than they actually do. Games with an overwhelming amount of content (Oblivion, Orange Box, Halo 3) also do well. It's the games in the middle - Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect most recently - that seem to suffer criticism both for being too open and too linear. It's confusing for the reviewers, no doubt - but it's also confusing for the people reading the reviews.

    Hence the mess.

  • miiiguel #186 4 years ago

    smoothn00dle: hummm, who are the "dudes" then, apart from EG, if everyone else is biased or a winnie-sucker ?
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 17:53

  • drumbaby #187 4 years ago

    Not as good as Uncharted then? Shame. :)

  • dudefella #188 4 years ago

    Okay, before I say what I'm about to say, let's get this out of the way: I understand reviews are subjective and the opinion of the editor in question.

    That said: An 8/10 for DYNASTY WARRIORS GUNDAM and a 7/10 for AC and 8/10 for Mass Effect?

    I am done with reviews, period. I'll make up my own damn mind.

    edit: To the above poster about reviewers with deadlines: I think that's dead-on. Gabe at Penny Arcade said a similar thing regarding Assassin's Creed and it really made me realize something: Reviewers are simply trying to finish the game so they can write the review and move on. This inherently skews their perception of games, I think, and with games as expansive as Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect, I think it is showing right now - reviews (at least, the scores) are worthless.
    Edited by 2 at 19/11/07 @ 17:58

  • Xerx3s #189 4 years ago

    @Xerx3s - OI! And I wasn't slagging the review! Besides, it will be coming to the PC, it's just a matter of time.

    I wasn't talking about you. They also specifically mentioned that they have no plans for a pc version of it. Considering that MGS owns the IP and they have traded their soul to shineys, I seriously doubt that we will see a PC version. Or a real bioware game ever again for that matter.

  • gnarl #190 4 years ago

    Do these reviews still have scores? Has no one realised they're there only for comedy value yet? I haven't paid attention to a EG score for years. These nice reviewer gents are much better at getting their point across through, what was it, 2,500 words than one number.

    Apart from the Bioshock review, from which I can only assume they played an entirely different game from me, that I one day hope to enjoy. Or it could be like Oblivion, and I only learn to see the game they have until a year or so later.

    Anyway, RPG or not, do we think Bioware'll do a Jade Empire with it? Because you can't trust 'em not to.

  • Walshicus #191 4 years ago

    Hmm. The score doesn't really concern me, given given that I have a dozen other places to go if I really wanted to have a number reassure me about the most certain purchase of the last ten years... what I didn't like was the review. Kind of seemed like the author didn't WANT to enjoy the experience. I guess as someone mentioned above me, he was playing to a deadline and just didn't have the time [or inclination?] to take it at the pace that most Bioware games require.

  • gnarl #192 4 years ago

    @Xerx3s
    MGS... you mean EA, yeah?

  • miiiguel #193 4 years ago

    gnarl, completly agree with you EG shouldn't print scores, it's too mathematical (it should have a bigger granularity) because I think it's very, very difficult to make this kinda judgment when thehy must rush through the games in order to meet dead lines. Games like this or Oblivion (or to some extent) even Halo can't be evaluated by playing it through a weekend.
    Should be: bad/mediocre/average/good/excelent, can't pin-point these games like this. I bet some reviwers after playing it "proprely" regret some scores.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 18:04

  • Xerx3s #194 4 years ago

    I am done with reviews, period. I'll make up my own damn mind.

    Good for you and welcome to the club. I only read reviews for the humour in them. For the rest, they have no weight at all for me. Talking to the people on forums and RL mates is what forms my opinion.

  • smelly #195 4 years ago

    >I am done with reviews, period. I'll make up my own damn mind.

    If you read the WORDS of reviews (as opposed to just looking at the scores) and read from a variety of sites/publications.. then you get a good idea of whether a game is worth buying or not.

    From this review, i'd say Mass Effect almost definately IS worth buying.

    I dont get why people get so uppity?

  • smoothn00dle #196 4 years ago

    @miiiguel

    I am confused. what do u mean? Dudes?

    do u really want to play a "Talking" game? I want action! Final Fantasy 2 did implement talking system but wasn't well received. It never appears on any other FF games since.

    Dating or Law games would be good to have this system but RPG/action game? Hell no.... I am the shoot first, ask question later kinda guy. For me the worst part of RPG is talking to NPC, hit the conversation again and again to understand them. You know those NPC act/talk so fake.

  • miiiguel #197 4 years ago

    smoothn00dle: I meant, what review publications are worth ?

    "do u really want to play a "Talking" game?"
    yes..., I still like text adventures..., I'm not shiting you. I do.

  • Stranded87 #198 4 years ago

    smoothn00dle:

    It really sounds like you just don't like RPG's much then, conversations and character development are among the best things about them and few true RPG's are of the 'shoot first ask questions later' variety, or at least they don't force you to play that way.

  • R-Digi #199 4 years ago

    Man this guy's an idiot... the stuff he is talking about is his preference. If you like these kinds of games like KOTOR and what not then it will be fantastic.... This website is WAY too judge-mental of video games, I hate the reviews, they are crap, when was the last time there was a good European game? huh?

  • monkie_king #200 4 years ago

    Sirs,

    I wish to register my utmost disappointment with the disgraceful review score awarded to this game, which I have not personally played.

    The score contradicts my personal expectations and beliefs, and so is obviously incorrect, as well as being a personal affront to me. I find it shocking that a website of your calibre should let me down so badly.

    Yours,
    Disgusted (Tunbridge Wells)

  • evilboo #201 4 years ago


    If you are on this forum to whine about a review score you should accept the fact that you will never, ever kiss a girl.

    If the game's so great then fuck off and play it.

  • hiddenranbir #202 4 years ago



    Apparently Bladestorm is a brilliant game on EuroG!

  • smoothn00dle #203 4 years ago

    @miiiguel

    Nobody is perfect in my view but Eurogamer and Gamespot, are two site I use as guideline. I followed reviewer not the site. Greg Kasavin, ex-gamespot chief editor, he was pretty good. The DMC3, Okami and Gradius5 review he did, we were in the same brain wave.

    Kristan Reed, he is good. I think he give GearWar a 7. A good call. I guess this review was hammered after he did Uncharted review. Guess once you see a game looks that good, it's hard to go back that shows in this review.

  • PameBoy #204 4 years ago

    @smoothn00dle:

    If you don't like "talking" games, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you should maybe stay away from the RPG genre. You may also want to avoid books, film, theatre, and general social interaction with human beings, as all of these also involve a great deal of "talking".

    @R-Digi

    This is a review website. The *purpose* of it is to pass judgement on the quality of games. Am I to understand you'd like some kind of non-judgemental review system? That's either incredibly stupid or unbelievably Zen.

    Anyway I just watched the gametrailers review and I feel like I know infinitely more about the game than anybody could have divined from this review here. Looking forward to friday, but with Assassin's Creed *and* Mario Galaxy taking up my time, I may have to strap the TV to my head and just walk around playing these all day just to get through them all.

  • evilboo #205 4 years ago

    at trebell - mom and aunties don't count.

  • hulahoops #206 4 years ago

    "when was the last time there was a good European game? huh?"

    He's right. What did the europeans ever do for us?

  • JediMasterMalik #207 4 years ago

    @xerx3s - Erm, Dragon Age?

  • Dan_Mathews #208 4 years ago

    I've been looking forward to Mass Effect for what seems like years, and an 8 is disappointing, I was expecting it to be in the Oblivion (10/10) class *sigh*

  • Feanor #209 4 years ago

    "I think it is showing right now - reviews (at least, the scores) are worthless."

    All it shows is that you are a whining baby who can't accept the fact that opinions differ. Grow up FFS.

  • miiiguel #210 4 years ago

    smoothn00dle, yes..., and Bioshock... . Anyway, reviews have little impact on sales, I guess. I mean..., the most successull (financialy) game of 2006 - Cars.

    Uncharted... is selling less than WWF.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 18:36

  • smoothn00dle #211 4 years ago

    @PameBoy

    That was harsh and uncall for. I finished FF12, clocked 249hr playtime. I don't have problem with reading. I just don't find talking to NPC interesting like talking to a real human. most of time due to bad design, they can confused u. It is like they pretend to be human but they know we know they are not. *v* We are still years away from a computer that can carry out a deep conversation with human. Reed is right, this game is just too ambitious.

    Back to gaming, I think stick to gun is safe bet.

  • Drpwnage #212 4 years ago

    "Reed is right, this game is just too ambitious."

    You haven't even played the bloody thing how can you affirm Kristian's statement?
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 18:44

  • nanodyne #213 4 years ago

    I have to say that I disagree with your contention that Mass Effect is first and foremost a shooter. (And I do think that matters because you clearly reviewed it in that light.)

    In fact you say it yourself in several places:
    “My goodness, does Mass Effect love to talk - or at least it certainly does in the first few hours…”

    “…and with so many characters to interact with, you may feasibly only have spent about 15 minutes of the first few hours of the game firing a gun in anger.”

    “With a bit more prodding from the game to move things along, it would have definitely helped draw more people into what it's really about, rather than just leaving you to your own devices, trudging around a space city chatting”

    What I get out of Mass Effect is an RPG that has tried to make the combat livelier by appropriating the FPS model, not the other way around.

    Reading your review I cannot help but feel that you “missed the point” just as if I tried to take Halo 3 to task for all the action getting in the way of the narration and plot development. In Halo 3 the action is, largely, the point and the story is a hook to give it context and some depth. In Mass Effect the character interaction is the point and the combat is used to frame it. At least that is what I get out of it, your mileage may (and clearly does) vary.

  • miiiguel #214 4 years ago

    too ambitious to be judged in 17.58 hours, I agree.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 18:47

  • PameBoy #215 4 years ago

    @smoothn00dle

    I'm sorry if you were offended but it really wasn't intended as an insult or anything. I just found it a rather odd thing to say in a thread about an RPG. Like the story about the guy who took FF7 back to the shop because he "didn't know there was going to be reading in it".

    The game isn't really *supposed* to be some kind of AI conversation-simulator. It has fictional characters in it, who are programmed to say certain things in much the same way as an actor in a film is given a script with specific dialogue to recite. The actor is supposed to deliver the set dialogue convincingly, but no-one's trying to fool you into thinking that the character being portrayed is a *real person*.

    I suppose it's an interesting topic for discussion about the subtleties in characterisation in in-game storytelling. I do think the facial animations on the characters in Mass Effect are deeply lacking, from what I've seen. Bioware never has been particularly good at facial expressions, and they do still look pretty wooden and lifeless, which is big marks off for a story-driven game in my opinion.

  • Petrarch #216 4 years ago

    Can live with the graphical oddities here and there, hasn't bothered me with anything I've seen it in previously and I'm not the sort of person that goes foamy mouthed with the blood vessels straining in the temples if the FPS drops under 30 at any stage.

    Mass Effect was and still is on the to buy list, really looking forward to it, though I am having a spot of trouble tracking a collectors edition down. Still, no big deal if I have to settle for the standard version, the game's the same.

  • BigJonno #217 4 years ago

    This is yet another review from Eurogamer that I find completely useless at best, confusing at worst (Halo 3 was the other one,) because it seems to be written entirely from a perspective that is completely alien to my own. I've played every single Bioware game since Baldur's Gate. I do not expect the combat mechanics to be the main talking point of the game. I'm not one of these number-cruncher purists who believe every RPG should have a turn-based combat system that you could replicate with a few funny-shaped dice and some lead miniatures (or some badly pre-painted, randomly-assorted plastic ones. See, I can move with the times.) I'd love to see an incredibly deep RPG with gameplay to rival cutting edge action titles. That would be lovely.

    On the other hand, I come into a Bioware review expecting to see the story, the characters, the choices you have within the game to be given centre stage. I don't expect the reviewer to be treating them as something to be endured between the shooty bits. As a few have already pointed out, stats and combat do not an RPG make. It's the story, characters and how you interact with them that make it an RPG.

    While I don't believe every review should be written by a sycophantic fanboy who is going to give it a great score to satisfy his fellow mindless fanatics, I do believe that they should be written by someone who has similar expectations to the people who are going to be interested in the game. In this case, that means Bioware/RPG fans. As it is, it seems to be firmly aimed at the Gears of War/Halo run and gun crowd.

  • Apologie #218 4 years ago

    I'm sure the game is good... no need to worry. Not a 10??? big deal, 10's mean nothing to me..., Halo 3 got 10/10 and i think that game is nothing special... anyway Mass Effect is not my type of game...
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 18:54

  • PameBoy #219 4 years ago

    BigJonno +1

  • sonykiller #220 4 years ago

    8?????? i bet you´re sony fanboys. you gave uncharted a 9 for god´s sake!

  • orakio #221 4 years ago

    9/10 for the PC version then?

  • miiiguel #222 4 years ago

    PC version ? when ?, I could "office-desk" this game...

  • captainrentboy #223 4 years ago

    I still don't want it, then again even if it had 10/10 across the board, I still wouldn't have bothered, games with big ole RPG elements aren't my thing.
    But like has been said many times, there's nowt wrong with an 8/10, if any movie I'm looking forward to seeing gets a 4/5-8/10, then I'll definitely be going to see at the cinema, same should go for the folks who've been looking forward to this for Donkey's years.
    Ohh and for the record if any big PS3 release got an 8/10 I wouldn't take the mick, but then again most of the PS3's biggies get 6's or 7's, don't they? :)

  • JediMasterMalik #224 4 years ago

    @captainfanboy - no...
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 19:04

  • Turrican #225 4 years ago

    Firstly, I think the review justifies the score, and I think that Eurogamer is one of the best review sites around, it made me cancel my PCGamer subscription. Also, the reviewer has come onto the comments thread and justified further his views.

    Secondly, is anyone truly surprised the combat isn't up to scratch having viewed the trailers in the last few months? I think the big disappointment for me is that they've made the combat such a large focus of the game, and let themselves down. After all, in rpgs your equipment gathering and levelling are all geared towards use in combat.

    If Kristan is still reading this, one thing I'm not clear on is the separation between the talky bits and the combat bits - are they truly disparate, with no middle ground, for example talking or errands in the same areas where the combat takes place? If its true then I'm disappointed further.

    That said, looking around the games scene this xmas, I'm still going to get this as I can't see much else doing any better. Its seems in most cases that November / December releases are the titles most likely to have needed a few extra months polish but have been rushed out to meet our supposed holiday purchasing madness.

    Edit - One more question I forgot - does Mass Effect have a relative levelling system like Oblivion or must you level up properly before being able to complete the game? I hope its the latter...
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 19:08

  • the_sas_man #226 4 years ago

    I got no problems with the review. But I don't get how the praising the review text gives makes it sound likes its tried to push the barriers of gaming a little more than most others (such as the dialogue) but doesn't give enough credit. Still a good review.

    I bet in two years time you will rate Mass Effect as a 9 and Halo 3 as a 9!

    Something tells me Mass Effect could be a timeless classic just like KOTOR was.

  • Drakron #227 4 years ago

    Deadlines?

    The official release date is 23/11/07 so its not they were pressed for time (its not out until Friday), unless Eurogamer stop being a EUROPEAN gaming site and now caters for the yanks (Australians already got the game) since its out tomorrow for then (officially at least) or its a grab to get the first review out for those clicks.

    Also on the subject of the reviewer not liking RPgs ... let me put this way, if I was a reviewer and someone given me a racing game it would get a 5/10 since I do not like then ... the issue with any review is the audience is taking the reviewer word for it, not the site but the reviewer so caution should be exercised on assignments.

    Also Gears of War got a 9/10 and have the texture pop up issue (no wonder, same engine) ... funny on how THAT was not mentioned in the Gears of War review.

  • ronuds #228 4 years ago

    "An 8, then, but a very good one..."

    Can't you institute the fraction system for these types of scores? So now this game will go down as an 8 - a "better than usual" 8, but still an 8.

    Makes no sense. Rate it a 9 then!

  • miiiguel #229 4 years ago

    Deadlines? read as "many hits".

    And it's funny, Gamespot which is a much more mainstream site decided to delay reviews of games like Oblivion; Mass Effect, etc., because they said in an editorial, they needed time to proprely review these, EG is taking the short road. It's part of the growing process, I guess.
    Edited by 4 at 19/11/07 @ 19:32

  • Gibroon #230 4 years ago

    8/10 is still a good, even great game depending on the player.

    Knock a couple of points off for graphical glitches and dodgy AI.

    Job's a good 'un.

  • J.C #231 4 years ago

    fair play though, this game is shit. i downloaded it last week off usenet around the same time as assassins creed and call of duty 4 - this one wont be played a lot, guess its worth £1.50 for the dual-layer verb but definitely no more.

    only sad saps would pay full price for this.


    Why dont you fuck of you cunt.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 19:34

  • Liggur #232 4 years ago

    John Shepard, that's the lead character from Stargate Atlantis.

  • dudefella #233 4 years ago

    My problem with the review isn't just the score, it's that Kristan hammered on and on about there being a lot of TALKING in the game. Yes, we know, anyone who's even remotely anticipating this game knows. I get the feeling he wasn't interested in the game at all. I already know I'm going to make up my own mind about the game, of course, I just think Eurogamer reviews have really declined in quality lately. In before 'gtfo then'

    Feanor: Everyone on here is whining, you too. I am expressing an opinion as well! See how this works? We can express disagreements about things!

  • miiiguel #234 4 years ago

    "fair play though, this game is shit. i downloaded it last week off usenet around the same time as assassins creed and call of duty 4 - this one wont be played a lot, guess its worth £1.50 for the dual-layer verb but definitely no more.

    only sad saps would pay full price for this.


    Why dont you fuck of you cunt. "

    Hey dudes, what part of "PUNK IS DEAD" you didn't get ?

  • Xerx3s #235 4 years ago

    @xerx3s - Erm, Dragon Age?

    Pimp my dragon. ¬_¬

  • Lemming81 #236 4 years ago

    Personally I think it's a disgrace this wasn't a PC title as well (as it was originally intended). What happened to MS trying to merge the gap between the 360 and Windows, eh?

    Bioware should be ashamed. The PC games market made them. Still, I'm sure we will get a port in a year or two.

    That is all I have to say - Looks a cool game, btw.

  • JavaJawaUK #237 4 years ago

    I don't get Eurogamer's coverage of some of the big games of Q3-4 this year. BioShock - sure, it's great . . . for about 5 hours. After that it becomes so easy as you're absolutely loaded and have piles and piles of ammo. - and yet, a 10? 1 story twist [however good] does not justify a 10!

    Halo 3 - while I personally love it, 10? The campaign doesn't have much, if any, replay value, and multiplayer just doesn't compete with, say, CoD4.

    Assassin's Creed! 7!!? You can't be serious! An 8 or 9 at least, even if it's just for trying to do something different from shooters.

    And now, Mass Effect. Probably the biggest WRPG release since Oblivion [or KotOR if you're that kinda guy] and it gets an 8?

    Now - I respect that these are opinions, but I get the feeling that Eurogamer is trying too hard to be different [i.e. Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, when other sites scored them substantially higher] and also trying too hard to appease the hype [BioShock, Halo 3, which probably didn't deserve 10s].

    Ah well - I'll still get Mass Effect. I'm not a slave to reviews ;)

  • Xerx3s #238 4 years ago

    Something tells me Mass Effect could be a timeless classic just like KOTOR was.

    It wouldn't be the first time that EG gave a timeless classic an 8 or far below. It's the reviewers opinion, not the end all discussion fact.

    Halo 3 - while I personally love it, 10? The campaign doesn't have much, if any, replay value, and multiplayer just doesn't compete with, say, CoD4.

    Played the campaign about 5 or 6 times in under 2 weeks, hows that for replayability? COD4 MP? Granted that I'm enjoying it atm but technically it is not even on the same MP level as H3.

  • RedPanda #239 4 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Scimarad #240 4 years ago

    "Oblivion, by a country mile."

    Ouch! :-(

  • BrandonW #241 4 years ago

    Wow, I am surprised so many people don't realize what "texture pop-in" is all about.

    I haven't played Mass Effect, but the reviewer did draw the similarity between Gears of War which I have played.

    Texture pop-in is one way to streamline the gamer's fun, where there are no loading screens to load all the content at once, but rather the most important content (base geometry and bland textures) immediatley, and the more detailed textures as the gamer is playing. This removes loading periods altogether (which I personally like more than the Metroid Prime 2 approach, where there are no texture pop-ins, but you have to wait at the door for every level while it loads the next room).

    Compare this to something like the Orange Box on the 360, where every minute you have another 8 second pause to load more content, and it is easy to see which is better.

    I usually like Eurogamer's reviews because they don't fluff up a title at all and are usually good at pointing out the negative parts of a game. This review makes me question the actual knowledge of the reviewer, which definitely isn't good.

    Can anyone say they would prefer a loading screen than pop-in textures?

  • Ryltar #242 4 years ago

    Well put BigJonno. I honestly think you hit the nail on the head.

  • krudster #243 4 years ago

    The only reason there's a lot of talking to be done in the beginning is because you'll probably end up wandering around the Citadel rather needlessly. Having now played it through to completion, I now realise I could have skipped rather quickly to the main missions and saved myself a lot of time. That's not to say the Citadel section isn't fun, it's just the game does take long time to really 'click' with what it wants you to do, with no real explanation of the front end, or the usefulness of the map.

    If all the BioWare fans really want to convince themselves it's a proper RPG, that's fine. It has the levelling up system of an RPG, certainly, but what people have to accept is that the missions, both main story and sub quests, are 95% action, and play like any other action game, only not quite as well-realised.

    There are small breaks between the shooting where you meet characters (who might offer you another small fetch quest for money) but once you're actually on a mission, it's a third person shooter, like it or not.

    When the game comes out and people actually play it for themselves, this will be glaringly apparent. But if you really expect more than underlying RPG elements, then you'll be very very disappointed.

    Despite making a bit point about how weighty the narrative is at the start, this is actually one of the game's real strong points. I love true adventure games, and while this isn't one of them, it does use narrative in a deep and involving way - even if the effect on gameplay is ultimately fairly trivial when it boils down to it.

    Call me names, come up with all the conspiracy theories in the world, but I rated this game as I saw it, not based on hype, or rating it as an action game instead of an RPG, or because I don't 'get' it, or because I don't like Sci-fi, or whatever "yeah buts" you can think of, I just rated the experience I had. No hidden agenda.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 20:08

  • RedPanda #244 4 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • krudster #245 4 years ago

    BrandonW -What you seem to be patronisingly unaware of is that there most definitely are long loading times *and* horrendous texture pop-in.

    All the time.

    And frame rate hitches that slow things down to sub 10fps levels.

    And terrible V-syncing

    At least check your facts before making ill-founded observations.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 20:15

  • miiiguel #246 4 years ago

    "No character to it. Just a 'place'. "
    Maybe it tries to characterize the future ?

  • Drakron #247 4 years ago

    Are you sure krudster?

    According to people that played the game, the moment you get Spectered you can do whatever you want ... nothing stops you from taking the Normandy and go exploring.

    If you stick to the "main" quest I guess you are going to be stuck on the Citadel for a bit of time also according to what I read.

  • dudefella #248 4 years ago

    Well krudster I'd say you're going by the definition of RPG wherein an RPG must have turn-based or stats-based combat, which is really rather silly. A 'role-playing game' is a game in which you can play, shockingly, a role! And seeing as how Mass Effect allows for loads of character customization in every department I'd say it fits the bill neatly. That, to me, is the most important aspect of an RPG. Bioware never pretended the gameplay was anything other than 3rd-person shooting.

  • Scimarad #249 4 years ago

    There are an awful lot of people desperate for this game to be something it isn't - Did they not play Jade Empire? It seems Bioware have gone even further down that road...

    The technical issues sound extremely disapointing.

  • krudster #250 4 years ago

    That's true, once Spectred, the Galaxy is there for the taking, but you gain that pretty early on. My problem was I didn't quite realise for some time that this was something I could do, so spent a good couple of hours trying to meet everyone in the Citadel - at which point it became more and more obvious I wouldn't get anywhere unless I headed back to the docking station. Wherever that was...

    Remember, it's a game you can complete in just over 10 hours first run - our man on the .de site took just 11 hours on his first run through, and I can quite believe it.

  • RedPanda #251 4 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • krudster #252 4 years ago

    Uh-oh, let's not start the 'what is a role playing game' topic, it'll never end. I'm not denying it has RPG mechanics underlying the gameplay. At all. And if all a game has to be in order to be classified an RPG is to allow you to play a role, then that covers every major genre in existence. Where's Gillen when you need him?

  • Drakron #253 4 years ago

    @krudster.

    Weird you did not mentioned in the review how the exploration is, in fact I seen many critics about the non plot worlds.

  • krudster #254 4 years ago

    There's not really a lot to say about it. It feels like unecessary fluff around the edges, in the main.

  • BrandonW #255 4 years ago

    Whoa there krudster.

    As I stated, I have never played this game, and thus draw my opinions from Gears of War, which was the comparison the reviewer made for this game.

    The graphical glitches have nothing to do with loading times (although I agree that graphical glitches are unacceptable in this time and age of gaming).

    As for the loading times, the reviewer made no reference to loading times being bad. The only related information I read was a very off-hand comment about waiting for things to happen, not specifically about the game freezing while content was loaded.

    Not to mention that the entire feel of the review was that this was a bad shooting game.

    So before you get your panties in a twist, try not to assume everyone knows everything, maybe read the comments you so knowledgeably reply to, and understand that while the review's final score may not be far off the mark, the review itself was by no means anything better than average.

  • dudefella #256 4 years ago

    Right, side quests in RPGs are unnecessary fluff.

    Also, I wasn't saying every game where you play a role is an RPG, but character customization, be it in personality (mostly in WRPGs) or stats (JRPGs) is one thing that pretty much any RPG has. Combat systems have always been different. Why does that make Mass Effect less of an RPG?

    Err Brandon you were the one acting like we all misunderstand what texture pop-in is, whereas you were the one actually misunderstanding it. So that's a bit of a cheeky thing to say, 'try not to assume everyone knows everything', isn't it? In case you still don't get it: Like in Gears and Halo 2, textures of objects tend to pop in while you're already looking at them. This is a bad thing.
    Edited by 2 at 19/11/07 @ 20:39

  • Drakron #257 4 years ago

    @krudster

    That is kinda of what I read, they are smaller that plot worlds and most "roam around in the MAKO" to collect minerals but that should been mentioned since its part of the game.

  • CouldntResist #258 4 years ago

    As always, these threads are hilarious. All i have to do is read a few random comments and i'll be giggling like a schoolgirl. There's no point debating anything in comment sections for hyped games. Rabid fanboys from all sides will just drown you out :).

  • roboto #259 4 years ago

    Following the trend of Bioware RPGs, you can't say that they have been for everyone. Bgate 1, although magnificent turned off a lot of people because they couldn't get out of Candlekeep and make it alive to the next city (where an attempted assassination again probably killed you)

    And as brilliant as it was( I and II and III fav games of all time), you're bound to get some individuals who will nit pick at items because they couldn't get it. I would say that this review border lines that very statement, and as such, I would go to say that this wasn't a poor reflection of ME in terms of what it could mean to all the rest of us, it's just that it's proof that not everyone is going to get it. So main stream crowd that is confused with Nintendo RPGs are going to get railed by this game.

    Having said that, 8.0 is still a very good score from this perspective. As for action over RPG elements, if it plays like that then you aren't using the pause button. If you aren't using the Pause button then for sure you can pretty much designate this game as a Action with RPG elements. If you roll the other way which is often how BioWare intends to play all their RPGS (although it doesn't sound as intuitive as the previous offerings ie KOTOR, Bgate) then you'd see the RPG aspect of the game.

    That said, many of you can't actually say that Jade was an all out RPG (can't say it's a full on RPG because there was too much input from the player on fights), much like KOTOR and the Baldur's series ones are. That said, this review is valid; aggravated in tone, but quite possibly justified from a reviewer who played this game another way.

    Giving a 10 to bioshock is wrong though. They really just did System Shock 2 all over again.. and seriously.. system shock 2 did a better job at the time it was released. Yea, murderously hard at times, but bioshock is a walk in the park in comparison.

    You want a real comparison - if you liked Bgate I,II,III - PS:Torment, Icewind Dale, KOTOR, Jade Empire -- BioShock, System Shock

    this game will be 10/10 in your books.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 20:41

  • VMerken #260 4 years ago

    R-DIGI: "This website is WAY too judge-mental of video games, I hate the reviews, they are crap, when was the last time there was a good European game? huh?"

    Umm, I don't know, how about The Witcher, or Crysis... ?

  • onyxbox #261 4 years ago

    well if it's any consolation, I thought the review was very good and I trust your opinion and have done for many years.

  • captain-future #262 4 years ago

    the simple truth is that the minute-to-minute combat simply isn't as intense and involving as you'd expect from a game in 2007

    I'll remember this when you score FFXIII *LOL*

  • Nostromo13 #263 4 years ago

    got this game already and it is worth more than an 8 silly euroGAYmer.

  • figaro7 #264 4 years ago

    Picked it up in AU the other day, yes, eb were selling it from late last week, anyway ive put a whopping 30 minutes into it, gimme a break endless ocean rocks. Anyway in that short space of time i can say the dialogue rocks, graphics are good and the run n gun part did remind me of gears of war. Squad commands are basic, using just the d-pad, cover system seems ok. I never played KOTOR or any of biowares games, but im glad its not based on star wars as it gives the characters a chance to stand on there own 2 feet. Far to early to judge but the opening was great and thats always a good sign!

  • krudster #265 4 years ago

    Important point to note pt 134: you can use the special abilities via RB if you think it makes it more of an RPG, but, try a little experiment and see if it makes any real difference to the outcome of a fight. It doesn't . You can get by without it every single time if you so choose, so if that doesn't highlight that it has been *designed* as an action game, I'm not sure what does.

    If you can kill everything in plain sight in real time, without pausing the game, I don't see the need to utilise special skills just for the sake of it.

    To clarify, I did use the special abilities quite a lot to begin with, then started experiementing not using them, and, to be honest, it seems to me that BioWare put them there to offer the illusion of RPG combat rather than making them integral to the outcome.


  • Drakron #266 4 years ago

    @krudster

    Sorry but it does not work that way, you are trying to define what is a RPG and what is not based on the difficulty, that is another issue (and I seem BioWare french demo were they lost the fight ).

    What matters to me is choice/consequence and I know there is in the game (Wrex).

  • captainrentboy #267 4 years ago

    ''@captainfanboy - no... ''
    Ohhh JMM, take a joke you sad bastard!
    Ohh and Resistance, Genji, Lair, Heavenly Sword, and Eye of Judgement called, they'd like you to reread their reviews :)
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 21:16

  • roboto #268 4 years ago

    @Krudster:
    Sounds like Jade Empire again...

    I wouldn't say my favourite format for combat (pref to KOTOR), but I know what you're saying.

  • roboto #269 4 years ago

    @ Drakon
    Agree - The best part of an RPG is the story and the ability to make choices in that story. Everything else comes second.

  • James-Caldari #270 4 years ago

    What makes an RPG, what makes a shooter, what makes an action game? Who cares guys? Why pidgeon-hole a game? It's obvious that people feel passionately about the game and will take different things from it.

  • Drakron #271 4 years ago

    *What makes an RPG

    Statistics, it character skill over player skill .... even Oblivion combat puts character skill over player skill in terms of damage and abilities.

    If Oblivion First Person Weapon Swinging/Bow Firing/Spell Casting does it, so does Mass Effect.

    *what makes a shooter

    Player skill, even few shooters put any restriction to the player outside weapon availability.

    If you want to me to put Mass Effect in a category only in terms of combat I have to say that because possible to make the only character you control to auto target and auto target a player designated target a RPG.

    BioWare said this is a action RPG, they also said you can play this as a shooter but its not recommended as such, perhaps some people with MAD SKILLS can complete the game as a strait shooter but the game basic mechanics and interface was designed for it to be a RPG.

  • bleeptest #272 4 years ago

    Remarkable Krudster - your game experience seems to be exactly the same as mine so far! Wandering round the citadel doing silly stuff, then working out how to progress the story, then discovering the map (why did I ignore it was there for so long!!)

    I think I enjoyed mindless wandering a little more than you did, mainly because I just loved the visuals - I haven't spent time in a game just wandering about for sheer beauties sake ever before. Architecturally it is really stunning - in a space 1999 sort of way. Galaxy map is great.

    And I'm not too much of a sci-fi geek....Star Wars is the only DVD on my shelf.

    6 hours in, so I'm looking forward to it getting even better.


    Should just mention I hated KOTOR by the way.

  • ronuds #273 4 years ago

    "To clarify, I did use the special abilities quite a lot to begin with, then started experiementing not using them, and, to be honest, it seems to me that BioWare put them there to offer the illusion of RPG combat rather than making them integral to the outcome."

    The same can probably be said of almost any RPG. In Oblivion, I rarely used anything other than my trusty sword and I probably could've gotten by only using that one weapon the whole game.

    I'd like to know if someone with a retail version is having all of the same graphical issues as outlined in the review?

  • roboto #274 4 years ago

    @bleeptest
    lol
    BioWare RPGs aren't for everyone =p I remember when Baldur's Gate was released, those who had no knowledge of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition ruleset was completely floored and ended up hating the game.

    KOTOR was pretty much made the 3rd version of those rules. I guess ME and Jade Empire is there way of spreading out to mainstream crowd instead of catering to the US hardcore RPG market.

  • polaris70 #275 4 years ago

    The only score I look at is the Metacritic score. It gets a 93/100 so far based on 23 reviews. That'll do for me. Seems like a lot more reviewers enjoyed the game than not. Definately buying it.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 21:45

  • Ryze #276 4 years ago

    Oh shit. This looks like a popular one...

    /reads review...

  • DocTep #277 4 years ago

    Krudster: "Having now played it through to completion..."


    So you reviewed the game before actually completing it? And your original answers regarding questions about the length of the game were based upon the time someone from one of the Eurogamer sister sites claimed to have completed the game within, rather than the time you took yourself? Or have I misread your comments somehow?

  • krudster #278 4 years ago

    Far from having MAD SKILLZ , it's so easy to shoot your way through the game it's probably the main reason it didn't get a 9. The AI is, well, not brilliant, and at times, just non-existent. If you actually had to use some of the interesting RPG mechanics to get by, Mass Effect would be far more interesting than it ended up. Without the superb storyline, it would be more like a 7, I'm afraid.
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 21:50

  • James-Caldari #279 4 years ago

    @Drakorn - I was trying to point out that it's... pointless... trying to pidgeon-hole the game as people have been trying to. It doesn't actually matter when you get to the meat and patatoes of the game. When you've finished it, are you going to turn around to the Good Lady Wife ans say "My, that was a fine RPG I just played."? I understand the fundamentals of each genre, and can quote them just as easily as you... but again, so what? From what I can see, MA blends many elements from shooters, RPGS, etc... If you pidgeon-hole something, instead of taking it for the individual ride that it presents to you, you might come away disappointed due to your pre-conceptions (and when I say 'you', I mean the general 'you', this isn't aimed at you Drakorn).

    Try not to take things so literally next time sir ;)

  • AOFanboi #280 4 years ago

    <em>You'll notice that I asked for someone who knows about sci-fi, or at the very least doesn't have a bias against it, not for a 'sci-fi nut'. I don't want a reviewer who's biased towards a game any more than I want a reviewer who's biased against it.</em>

    How would that help? I know, let's send someone who knows about sci-fi to review Star Wars.

    "This messy broth made from elements of Japanese samurai movies and WW2 dramas suffers greatly from having been mis-placed in space. Not that it seems to bother it much; the physics are laughable at best. Why would anyone use slow-moving energy weapons firing plasma contained in some sort of field when you could be firing particle rays traveling at the speed of light? I guess it's so they can be dodged. How nice of them!

    And dodge they do, since it's more important the fighters act like they are flying like WW2 planes than that they are objects moving in the vacuum of space. If this is an attempt at space opera, it wilts in the presence of even the old E. E. 'Doc' Smith's Lensman books. They were over the top, but at least Newton got his laws into them.

    And don't get me started on the Stormtroopers - which navy would be associated with people that bad at firing? And what is their armor made from? Styrofoam? It punctures like cardboard.

    2/10 just because I am in a good mood."

    Despite that kind of hypothetical review from a hard sci-fi freak, people still love it. See?

  • Paulanator #281 4 years ago

    Well this review certainly seems to be going against the grain of basically every other review I've read so far, mind you, that happens a lot on EG.

    I recommend that anyone still unsure about this game or a little disappointed by EG's score should go and watch the GameTrailers review. Really good review with some stunning footage and they end up giving it (what seems to be) a very well earned 9.6/10.

    Seriously can't wait for this.

  • zimzu #282 4 years ago

    sorry, comment on point krudster made couple of pages back

    "I review games regardless of themes, whether it's gangster themes, Wild West, medieval, whatever. A good story is a good story regardless of theme, and I enjoyed the story immensely.

    The gameplay, however, isn't amazing. End of story."

    how comes bioshock got 10 though? i'd agree that it had a fantastic storyline, but the gameplay was god-awful. the vita-chambers were essentially a god-mode cheat, negating the need for "difficulty levels" while all the enemy combatants were repetetive and boring. even the end boss fight ended up being the exact same moves over and over again. i cannot remember the last game i played where i felt more bored by the gameplay...

  • Physically_Insane #283 4 years ago

    hm, seems EG were a bit harsh. average score currently at 94%

  • ElCapitano2145 #284 4 years ago

    Wow Eurogamer. I give up on you.

    8/10? Get a grip. You guys are ridiculous.

    Truly the EDGE of videogame websites.

    This game is 9/10 AT LEAST, if not 10/10.

  • Edwannawonga #285 4 years ago

    @michalis

    Review:
    Game is a good action romp, worth playing, good story behind it. Performance gets a bit dodgy in places.

    Comments:
    8/10 is a poor game score. Kristan, your opinions are inferior to mine. I hold a monopoly on opinions and what everyone thinks should constitute a good game.

    Me:
    Good on Eurogamer for not bowing down to the hype machine.

    edit: just re-read your post ^^ one word = playable
    Edited by 1 at 19/11/07 @ 22:39

  • Azazel #286 4 years ago

    People are forgetting to say 'FACT' at the end of their posts... tsch.

  • beastmaster #287 4 years ago

    This looks as though it could be quite good. So another one to buy. Not even unwrapped Lego Star Wars Saga, Stranglehold or Assassin's Creed. Never mind there's always the lull coming up...Nothing good coming ever comes out after Xmas in the months leading up to Easter.

    Well, apart from Mercs 2, Devil May Cry 4, Burnout Paradise, The Club, Splinter Cell, Hell Highway...my god, I think my head is about to explode!

    Only a remake of Hover Bovver can save my sanity.

  • The-Bodybuilder #288 4 years ago

    >"The thing is...the game puts the action front and centre. *Every single mission* is a third person action romp, so the game has to be judged as an action game first, with role playing elements playing a less significant part."

    Eh?
    By your own review, this is a "dialogue-heavy" game, so therefore it's an RPG first? Should people judge oblivion first due to it's sword battles? The same could even be said for Jade Empire and KOTOR.

    And since when did a modern bioware game an action game first?

  • Katsumoto #289 4 years ago

    How many people moaning about this score have actually played the game, out of interest?

    /is confused

  • Feanor #290 4 years ago

    None or almost none. It's extremely embarassing.

  • Shrike #291 4 years ago

    Seems like the undercurrent here is not merely that scores are inconsistent (Bioshock is a 10/10 and Mass Effect is an 8) but that criticisms show up on reviews of certain games that don't show up in others. I loved Bioshock, loved the ending, loved playing it through, but I became thoroughly disenchanted with the gameplay basically during/after Fort Frolic. Big Daddies are so easy to kill on hard that on my second play-through I found myself giving myself little challenges - 'let's do it with the pistol' or 'lets try to use the environment' - anything to make it feel like a challenge. It's a prime example of shooting your way through the same old same old to get on with the story, and that's without the vita-chambers. And AI? They may as well run at you in a straight line, as everyone behaves predictably according to their archetype. Yes, they find water if you set them on fire, but they do that specifically so that you can lightning the water, like in those videos you saw!

    And Bioshock's twist - brilliant as it is - is a retroactive justification for the game's adherence to linear "sorry, but this is how you have to do it" FPS design principles. It's an apology for decades of anal game design that doesn't actually address the gameplay problem itself.

    So we have a case of the same reviewer explicitly stating that he marked a game down a point for criticisms very easily levelled at a game he gave a perfect 10 to. What's the difference? Is it that Bioshock is more artistically adventurous, or original? Does it make up for it in a way that Mass Effect's more traditional space-opera doesn't? I'm not trying to slag anyone off, it's just genuinely confusing.

    Tycho from Penny Arcade made a good point today though that we'll all probably enjoy the game more for going in with these negative expectations.

  • Charlie_Miso #292 4 years ago

    everyone here should be ashamed.

    me included.

  • Turrican #293 4 years ago

    I know quite a few people have been playing it for a week or so, but for most of us, we have to respect the fact that Kristan has played it and we haven't. He is far more qualified to say what he thinks, and I think people are just angry that its not lived up to its hype as a 10/10 in waiting.

    Also, the way some of you are picking apart his replies on this comments thread (the bit about Devil May Cry has overlapped onto the Bioware forums too) is bad form, and you should stop it. This is the kind of analysis politicians get over their every word, we should be grateful he is on this thread at all trying to reason with us, and I wouldn't blame him if he left this thread well alone.

    And I'm no big Eurogamer puppet, I disagree with Bioshock, agree with Halo 3, its just on this review I think the complaints we're seeing here are unjustified.

    Finally, one of you said that Eurogamer was becoming the Edge magazine of Internet Review Sites - well I know which I'd rather be, compared to a starry-eyed hype consuming braindead fact churning review site ;)

  • J.C #294 4 years ago

    344.

  • Luckyjim #295 4 years ago

    What's with the nerdquake? Why quibble over whether it's an '8' or '10'. If you want to buy it, buy it!


  • The-Bodybuilder #296 4 years ago

    Yeah, but Edge gave Halo and Halo 3 a 10.

    People can't have it both ways, hail edge is the standard og gaming journalism, whilst rejecting thier halo reviews (well deserved IMO).

  • QotSAfan #297 4 years ago

    Wahey! This review and AC's has restored my faith in EG. Now to wait for C4's teletexts word on it.

  • Stoatboy #298 4 years ago

    If only the whining pricks in this comments thread (who pretty much to a man haven't actually played the game yet) had actually said something worth remembering, you'd be able to hold it against them in the weeks to come. Sadly they haven't, so you can't.

    Great fun reading the outraged frothing pointless frenzy though. Ta EG. :D

  • cobracotton #299 4 years ago

    listen you silly sci fi ladies stop fighting dress up as aliens and now KISS...

  • krudster #300 4 years ago

    I completed the game on sunday morning and wrote the review monday morning, if my above comment needed clarifying. Sigh.

  • Vice.Destroyer #301 4 years ago

    At the risk of stopping the lovely friendships that the Krudster is cultivating with seemingly everyone in this thread, I'd just like to get somebody to explain something to me. And please don't laugh.

    Basically, I am a little embarrassed to ask this, but, if you don't know, you don't know. There has been a lot of talk about V-sync issues, tearing and the like. I've obviously seen loads of graphical errors in my time, but I've never known what each effect is called. So, could somebody explain what v-sync issues are? And what tearing is? (Is that something like the effect for "a glitch in the matrix" as shown in the film of the same name?). And erm, jagged edges? Is it just as the name suggests? Which game has an example of awful jagged edges?

  • foamy #302 4 years ago

    V-Sync (aka Vertical Synchronization):
    [link url=http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_sy...
    ]http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_sy...[/link]

    Tearing:
    [link url=http://en.wikipe dia.org/wiki/Tearing
    ]http://en.wikipe dia.org/wiki/Tearing
    [/link]

    Jaggies:
    [link url=http://en.wikipe dia.org/wiki/Jaggies
    ]http://en.wikipe dia.org/wiki/Jaggies
    [/link]

    V-sync stops tearing, anti-aliasing stops jaggies, and everyone lived happily ever after.

  • MrDurandPierre #303 4 years ago

    Krudster,

    Do you think it's safe to say this game is an underdeveloped mix of KOTOR and Gears of War? Because a common (and often accurate) criticism of action-RPGs is that by trying to do both genres justice they end up a somewhat half baked version of each genre (take Super Paper Mario for example, which btw, I liked a lot). Because it sounds like the action element is similar to Gears, albeit less polished, and the RPG elements are like KOTOR without as much depth. But taken as a whole, it's still a really nice package. I mean at 8 by EG standards isn't bad at all (several of the top 10 games of last year where 8s), so despite cynics ranting about the game not getting a 9 or a 10, do you still think it's worth a purchase at full retail? And do you see yourself playing through it again at any point in the not too distant future?

  • holy_bazooka #304 4 years ago

    hey guys relax,
    eventually this game is going to be on the pc and as it is built on the ut3 engine, mods will fix most thing u care about and make almost the game u want it to be. I mean just look at Oblivion.
    I for one am not worried at the least about what bioware did to mass effect or for that matter what bethsoft will do to fallout 3.
    the community will fix it.

    And as for the score, i have always found eurogamer scores to be spot on.

    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 04:57

  • peppergomez #305 4 years ago

    really hope that this eventually comes to PC and that mods enable 1st person perspective

  • Scimarad #306 4 years ago

    "...loved playing it through, but I became thoroughly disenchanted with the gameplay basically during/after Fort Frolic."

    My experience exactly, though I dare say the reviewer felt differently.

    Krudster, you obviously have the patience of a saint to keep coming back in here and reasoning with these people.

  • krudster #307 4 years ago

    Or I'm just barking mad, one of the two.

  • Scimarad #308 4 years ago

    Are they mutually exclusive concepts? ;-)

  • Shrike #309 4 years ago

    Hmm, is that the time... I wanted to say that it's good to see a reviewer willing to back up or expand upon points made in the review, especially when people on both sides of the "whether or not you're too cool to care" fence spout such shite. I imagine that there is a solid basis to the complaints in the review - it's merely that we're obviously in a place now where reviews aren't sufficient buyer's guides in themselves. I'm in a position where I'm coming back from university in a few weeks having missed every game released since September, including Halo 3. That's alot of 10s and 9s, and yet here I am spending my hard-earned on 8s and 7s because I have a hunch I'll get more mileage out of them. Is this a product of subjective reviewing? Yes. Does spending £40 on a hunch make me uncomfortable? Also yes. We're all looking for our money's worth, I guess - both from our consoles and our games - and we want to know that we're not going to regret the outlay. I think maybe it comes down to the tired old problem with numerical scores - making people feel bad for buying an 8-rated RPG when they could be buying a 10-rated shooter, even though really they want an RPG.

    I think some of the Mass Effect review's negativity could have been more effective (ba-dum..tish?) if the approach had been explicitly "if you are an RPG gamer, and a BioWare fan, this is what you're in for.." Those of us having problems with the review, as has been said, are the BioWare fanboys who a) don't want to believe it's crap and b) feel miss-served by a review whose commentary on the RPG aspects of the game is implicit rather than explicit. It's like we're expected to.. I don't know, mine the dialogue between reviewer and action gamers for info that's relevant to us.

  • SentientNr6 #310 4 years ago

    This review brought back memories from Kotor. I really loved that game but it had the same shortcomings that are mentioned in this review.
    Anyway I played through Kotor twice, once light, once dark which proves that to me it was a short but good game that I fondly remember.
    I guess the same will be true for mass effect. Sad about the flaws though. Maybe some bioware legacy code that they crosscompiled to 360? ;)

  • morriss #311 4 years ago

    What are the Achievements like?

  • sn3jk #312 4 years ago

    I have played this game for 5 hours now, and its a solid 9.5 ;-)

    -.5 for slowdowns and loading times.

  • Caimbeul #313 4 years ago

    Pre-order cancelled due to technical issues - games with crap frame rates and tearing are simply not acceptable in this day and age. Its a shame because I had been so looking forward to it...maybe if it gets sorted by patches...

  • mkreku #314 4 years ago

    Yeah, I'm getting a bit skeptical myself.. I'm worried about the exploration parts too. It sounded in the previews that you'd get a whole galaxy to explore at your leisure, but the reviews I've read makes it sound pointless (Gamespot scored Mass Effect 8.5 by the way..).

  • smoothn00dle #315 4 years ago

    I watched the GameTrailer Mass effect HD review. Listening to GT talk about how great this game is while watching one video after another lagging frameRate. Even the part that not about presentation. I felt like they talk shit.

    @Krudster
    How bad is the frame rate in Mass Effect? My friend is reviewer, he told me that this game is buggy as well, have u encounter any nasty bug?

    I see u also do the Uncharted review. What do u think of the graphic between Uncharted and Mass Effect? For example: framerate, draw distance, color, physics, texture and lighting?

    Thank you.

  • menage #316 4 years ago

    Since when is 8 a bad game, and a good 8 at that. AC got a 7 and I'm enjoying the hell out of it. It's just all about variety in your software library and switching between them that keeps shit fresh and cool.

    I'm so getting this, I like watching at cool characters and settings. And the characters and setting look stellar in this one.

    "I watched the GameTrailer Mass effect HD review. Listening to GT talk about how great this game is while watching one video after another lagging frameRate. Even the part that not about presentation. I felt like they talk shit."

    You watched a different video than I have, it looked gorgeous in my book.
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 09:33

  • Lexx87 #317 4 years ago

    Wow. Krudster, if you haven't left here in a rage then I commend you. Go to the forums, the people there arn't stupid :p

    Disclaimer: Not everyone here in an idiot. Just a few.
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 09:40

  • mike_mgoblue #318 4 years ago

    FACT:

    The use of a Hard Drive has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not there is "Pop-Up" in a game!

    Proof: Just look at the game called "Dirt" on the Playstation 3, and you will realize tis FACT very quickly, because that game has Pop-Up almost as bad as Daytona USA did on the Sega Saturn.

    This editor has NO IDEA of what he is talking about as far as technical issues!!! Just look at all of the other positive reviews for Mass Effect where it is given scores of 10 out of 10, 100%!

  • mike_mgoblue #319 4 years ago

    Look at these scores from other reliable websites,

    And keep in mind that Mass Effect received the EXACT same score from Eurogamer that Gears of War did!

    Eurogamer was even stupid enough to say that Gears of War didn't haven any type of new gameplay for shooters...Even though Gears of War has a 100% revolutionary Re-Load system!!!

    GameSpy - 11/19/2007 - 5 out of 5

    Videogamer - 11/19/2007 – 10 out of 10

    IGN - 11/19/2007 - 9.4 out of 10

    Electronic Gaming Monthly - 12/25/2007 – 9, 9.5, 9

    Official Xbox Magazine – 12/25/2007 - 10 out of 10

    Game Informer - 11/1/2007 - 9.75 out of 10

    Gamer - 11/19/2007 - 9.2 out of 10

    Xbox 360 Advanced – 11/19/2007 – 9.2 out of 10

    Cheat Code Central - 11/18/2007 - 4.8 out of 5

    Game Trailers – 11/19/2007 - 9.6 out of 10

    MS Xbox World - 11/18/2007 – 10 out of 10

    Gamezone – 11/19/2007 – 9.8 out of 10

    Gamepro – 11/19/2007 - 4.75 out of 5

    * Eurogamer - 11/19/2007 - 8 out of 10 – the same rating Gears of War received from Eurogamer.

    *** If an Xbox 360 game is rated with the exact same score as Gears of War, then you can count me in ALL THE WAY!!!

  • mike_mgoblue #320 4 years ago

    There are FOUR games nominated for Game of the Year Awards on virtually all of the websites and magazines.

    Those games are:

    (1) Halo 3
    (2) Bioshock
    (3) Mass Effect
    (4) Orange Box

    Mass Effect is also nominated for Best RPG of the Year Award in virtually all of the magazines and websites.

    The reason for this is because these games, including Mass Effect, are rated incredibly high and have already received awards from many websites and magazines.

    Mass Effect is an AWESOME game...the numbers dont lie!!! The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of reviews CONFIRM what the Awards have said all along--Mass Effect is incredible, and it is one of the top four games produced this year!

    Eurogamer rated Mass Effect with the same score they gave to Gears of War, which won the same Awards such as Game of the Show at E3 that Mass Effect did.

    Gears of War won the Award for Best Game of the Show at the 2006 E3. Mass Effect won the Award for Best RPG at the 2006 E3. Mass Effect won the Award for Best Game of the Show at the 2007 E3.

    Mass Effect provides an average of 40 hours of gameplay according to the surveys, and there is a LOT of Replay Value.

  • mike_mgoblue #321 4 years ago

    Mass Effect is an Xbox 360 exclusive game published by Microsoft Game Studios.

    For any PS3 owners who thinks that Mass Effect might eventually be released on the PS3 in a year or two, since Bioware was bought by EA, you need to think again...here's why:

    (1) Microsoft Game Studios is the Publisher of Mass Effect.

    (2) Mass Effect is a trilogy of games, and the contract gives Microsoft Game Studios exclusive Publishing rights to THREE Mass Effect games, if they are developed. There is no danger of Mass Effect going to the PS3 as a result of EA purchasing Bioware. The only danger is that EA might not allow Bioware to develop future Mass Effect games, since Microsoft Game Studios has the exclusive Publishing rights.

    (3) Electronic Arts has already publicly stated that the Xbox 360 is their Primary Development Platform.

    (4) EA doesn't even bother to release games like Command & Conquer 3, or Battle for Midearth 2 on the Playstation 3. Those games are released only for Xbox 360 and PC, but NOT for the Playstation 3.

    (5) Mass Effect is a game that uses the Unreal graphics engine in a way that was customized for the Xbox 360. Even if there ever was a PS3 version, it would be impossible for the PS3 version to look as good as the Xbox 360 version, since the Xbox 360 has a more advanced GPU and superior multi-core CPU structure that developers can actually take advantage of.

    Remember, Bioshock is a game that was originall intended to be developed for PC, Xbox 360 and PS3...However, the developers made it clear that they quickly realized the Playstation 3 didn't have the polygon power to handle Bioshock at the level of performance they wanted. As a result, Bioshock was released for Xbox 360 and PC, but not Playstation 3.

    Consider the fact that games like Rainbow Six: Vegas were released seven months after the Xbox 360 version, yet the Xbox 360 version was still superior--and costed $20 less than the PS3 version by the time it was released.

    Mass Effect is nominated for Game of the Year by virtually all websites and magazines. Anyone who misses out on Mass Effect is truly a fool.

  • striker #322 4 years ago

    Do you get paid?

  • menage #323 4 years ago

    Yeah, no need to convince anyone, just enjoy the game instead of spamming a whole page with a rant.

    And Gears sucked:p
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 10:24

  • Darren #324 4 years ago

    Well I thought the review was good at pointing out the pros and cons of the game and 8/10 is still a fine score in my book so I'm eagerly awaiting the chance to play the game, hopefully on Thursday.

    It seems to me that this game is perhaps a bit too ambitious for the Xbox 360, a console with no standard HDD for developers to rely on, so we've got more technical issues than we'd like in order to make the game look visually stunning, which it does from the videos and screenshots I've seen. (What is odd though is I thought the game had been delayed three months for improvements?)

    Now, as I understand it, these issues wouldn't have any real impact on a game that was turn-based but Mass Effect seems to be an action-based RPG which relies on real-time combat so these issues sound like they'd be far more annoying. Having played Eternal Sonata, another game that is more "real-time", I'd imagine that tearing and a poor framerate would have spoilt the combat for me. RPGs to me are 50% story/characters and 50% combat so if one or the other is flawed then you end up with a game that's lacking. I'm not saying that Mass Effect is lacking - I haven't played it yet - I'm just saying that I understand Krudster's criticisms.

    @Krudster - Regarding the v-sync tearing you mention in the review - I thought you said you didn't notice this on your 50" plasma HDTV when you reviewed Uncharted: Drake's Fortune - a game I've seen around 40 minutes of HD footage from, thanks to Gamersyde, and which has loads of obvious tearing (well, obvious to me anyway). So if you didn't notice it in Uncharted, how come you've made a point of mentioning in Mass Effect? Admittedly, I haven't played the game yet but the tearing looks like it only happens from time to time from the video reviews and footage I have seen (usually when the action hots up) so why mention it here and not in the other review? It seems to me that both games have v-sync issues but Mass Effect is being singled out because it has a wonky framerate and texture pop-in issues as well.

  • Darren #325 4 years ago

    @mike_mgoblue - KotOR 2 wasn't developed by BioWare... in fact, BioWare rarely do sequels anyway, preferring to make original games instead (Baldur's Gate 2 was the exception though). Thus any future Mass Effect sequels on the 360 could be written by other developers, like Obsidian (who did KotOR 2), using the engine and ideas that this first game uses. In fact, I'm expecting that to happen anyway, especially now that EA have bought BioWare.

  • menage #326 4 years ago

    @Darren

    EGis pretty inconsistent in that way (V-sync) just look at the God o War 2 review. Hilarious.

  • krudster #327 4 years ago

    Not really "hilarious". I reviewed God of War 2 on PS3, where there was no v-synching problems at all.

  • krudster #328 4 years ago

    I honestly didn't notice the tearing on Uncharted, it wasn't that visible on this TV, however, Mass Effect has very visible tearing. There's no conspiracy to only talk about it on some games and not others. If I don't see it, I can't talk about it.

  • menage #329 4 years ago

    No disrespect, but that was kinda weird reviewing a PS2 game on a PS3 and saying that there's no v-synch isues. At least you should have mentioned that, and reviewed it on the machine it was designed for (and 90% of the users bought it for).
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 11:00

  • urizen #330 4 years ago

    How fucking dare you give ME an 8? Reviews elsewhere on the web scientifically *prove* that Mass Effect is the flawless perfect gaming experience the less intelligent amongst us were hoping for.

    /clumsy sarcasm mode off

    Seriously, anyone who's outraged in this thread but hasn't yet played it.....get a life and while you're at it try look up two words: "informed" and "opinion".

    I'm about 15 hours in and I have to say the review sums my feelings up very well, particularly:

    "Visually, it's well up to scratch, but at the cost of a pretty poor frame rate, rather unsatisfying combat, and an enemy which doesn't really put up much of a concerted fight. The first impressions certainly don't suggest Mass Effect should be talked about as a must-have game..."

    I had very mixed feelings at first, finding the combat quite ropey and how a game with such technical issues can get perfect scores boggles the mind - there's clearly a lack of ambition out there concerning what we should expect from classic games. The texture pop-up, particularly on games recently loaded, is pretty bad, though not half as annoying as the jerky frame rate in battle, which can actually affect the gameplay (though is mostly simply irritating).

    I agree about the citadel too - they could have picked up the pace here; I enjoyed wandering and chatting for a bit, but it started to feel like a slightly souped up Kotor, really, and not much more.

    I think after about 5 or 6 hours, I was feeling moderately let down, while loving the dialogue options, and starting to enjoy the combat more. Then I did my first major chunk of main mission - saving a colony - started experimenting with equipment and tactics more, started clicking with the universe, and I found myself hooked.

    I'd give more credit for the exploration element - it's formulaic, but does a reasonable job of sustaining the illusion of a large and diverse game world, and I just enjoy wandering to random planets and driving around in the Mako. Occasionally, you can come across something fairly surprising.

    All in all, a very, very good game once you get into, but certainly flawed and certainly nowhere near the perfect next-gen game many are hoping for.

    Edit: oh, and time to take the pitchforks and torches over the Gamespot....8.5, which is probably what I'd score it. In other words, very, very good.
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 11:04

  • Darren #331 4 years ago

    Well I've only played God of War II on a PS3 but noticed that although there's no tearing (thank you, thank you), there's no shadows either... at least there wasn't with the v1.7 update (or whatever version number it was when I played it). The only reason I knew they were missing was that I watched the GameTrailers video review and noticed that the game should have real-time shadows!!! Still I'd rather have no tearing than shadows so I'm not complaining except that it made the platforming jumping sections harder seeing as Kratos had no shadow to judge the perspective by.

  • krudster #332 4 years ago

    For what it's worth, if EG did half marks, this would also be an 8.5, but we don't, so there!

  • menage #333 4 years ago

    Two small questions.

    Is the text readable on an SD, and does it feature funky 70's scifi disco music like the early trailers, or did they do a 180 and go for a SW feel.

  • Calgon #334 4 years ago

    Im sure Bioware fans will love it and add a few points to that score but if the reviewer really didnt rate it a AAA experience then that's his opinion.
    Although I thought EG basically confirmed it was a goodun in that Bioware feature, sometimes its like they do things to get a reaction out of us, build it up telling us its going to be great and give it an average score(before you say anything about that not being average... there are more 8s this year than I can remember its just how it is). KOTOR had its faults here and there so it would have been easy to knock points off the score, perhaps this is the same kind of situation.

    Planning on "deffinately picking this up next year 'when' it comes out on PC" is seriously premature(same with Halo3), MS have the publishing rights so I hope they make those people wait and wait(as punishment for their "errr well I fink 360 as no exclusive get them on PC innit LOLZ PS3 blu-rayz better" bull...) its about time MS took notice of that kind of thing if they want 360 to be more successfull(like devaluing the top 360 games bundling them too heavily... it gives a bad impression seeing so many copies of a game in the pre-owned section, PGR2 was a great game but they practically gave it away when it reached classics status, Ive got 3 copies of it here and its probably going to be difficult to sell on those 2, never been opened copies).
    Edited by 3 at 20/11/07 @ 12:26

  • striker #335 4 years ago

    After editing 3 times, your post is still unreadable. Keep trying.

  • Calgon #336 4 years ago

    Oh yeah sorry, because your post was so well thought out and worthwhile... C**T!

    Edit: Why are there so many sad bastards on here, does it fucking matter how many times someone edits, fuck me find something better to jack off to wont ya?(9 times out of 10 its because they dont agree but cant come up with a decent arguement)
    Edited by 2 at 20/11/07 @ 12:55

  • w00t #337 4 years ago

    You appear to have lost these: UN

    If you're trying to say cunt, of course.

  • Darren #338 4 years ago

    @Krudster - Hang on, if Mass Effect is worthy of an 8.5 then surely that's a 9 in whole numbers (rounded up, etc.) not an 8? :? I mean 8.1, 8.2, 8.3 and 8.4 are obviously 8 (rounded down) and 8.5 and higher is a 9 on a 1-10 scale... no? :?

  • beastmaster #339 4 years ago

    What a reaction to a score! Can't wait for EG 6/10 review for GTA IV.

  • 7creature #340 4 years ago

    Finally somebody have guts to break this insane 9-point streak.

    I mean - it seems like every major game nowadays is getting 9+ or 10? WTF? What will be next, everything will be getting 10+? 11/10?

    There should be fine line among brilliant games we will remember forever and those shiny, entertaining play&forget great buys. And games receiving 9+ from 10 should be THE games we will remember for quite a while. I mean - games like Fallout or Starcraft got 9!!!

    There is some SERIOUS devaluing going on... Or maybe the message is clear - gamers should simply buy everything. Why? Because it got 9+ .-)

    /end of rant

  • Calgon #341 4 years ago

    7creature well I think part of of it is because quality has picked up... atleast looking at 360s library(theres really is alot more worth buying than I can remember), most of those games will be remembered but competition is so strong recently that even AAA games --that in other years would have cleaned house-- arent getting the sales they deserve.

    PGR4 says it all for me, the excuses Ive heard dont cut it, it has more differences than say any burnout from one to the next has had. Its arguably the best in its series which would mean the best racer of this gen so far IMO and yet the buzz ended so quickly, all because of such healthy competition(this is both good and bad, good for us as gamers but bad for devs and in the long run what's bad for devs usually ends up bad for gamers). I also beleive that in other years Assassins Creed would have been rated higher from what Ive seen of it anyway.
    Edited by 3 at 20/11/07 @ 15:35

  • menage #342 4 years ago

    @7Creature

    I agree completely, but in that respect, some well known MS shooter shouldn't have gotten a 10, or a well known Nintendo game featuring a boy in tight pants all the rave reviews in the world. Not to bring that up again.

    I vote for reviewscores measured in cake. And very exemplary cake gets extra cream on top. And the exemplary exemplary get's a cherry, etc etc.

    This generation is fucking up reviewing. Just give us your opinion, slam them together at metacritic and decide for yourself.

  • foamy #343 4 years ago

    Assassin's Creed is one of the GotY for me :|

  • menage #344 4 years ago

    Or whacking shit with a shovel.

    What the hell was that post about anyway:p

  • dryden555 #345 4 years ago

    very big shame about the braindead AI, as just about every review is saying. That's not something fixable with a patch either.

  • Calgon #346 4 years ago

    ...pale and very abusive towards ANYONE who does not own their console.

    You just described a Nintendo fanboy who comes accross someone who doesnt worship Nintendo and can see negatives about anything they do, or doesnt like platformers ect(its even easier to generalise Wiis library so watch it lol). Or a Sony fanboy who comes accross someone who doesnt beleive CELL and Blu-Ray are the best thing since sliced bread, or doesnt see as much to look forward to in the pipeline as on the other consoles.

    /Hates hypocrisy of fanboys sometimes, as I always say, own all the consoles you like... you can still be a raving fanboy of any one of them(which is common, infact it only makes them more self rightous about it if anything, which nobody needs lol).
    Edited by 4 at 20/11/07 @ 16:47

  • murgo #347 4 years ago

    8? lol... i played the game for the last 8 days. imo it's one of the best games EVER! of course there are bugs, v-sync and framerate problems. but the game's still fucking amazing... 8? no.. 9 at least...

  • Calgon #348 4 years ago

    Evilfoxhound: Well actually 360 has been subject to the most trolling by both of those groups IMO, if anything they have more "threatened" fanboys... its how all trolling starts. Perhaps you find that easier to ignore comments against 360.

    Prefering the 360 console to others or vice versa is... well theres nothing wrong with that, I think thats what always happens isn't it? I wouldn't argue with a Nintendo fan that he shouldn't say that he loves the Wii and thinks Nintendo make the best games... in Nintendo forums/articles.
    Edited by 3 at 20/11/07 @ 17:02

  • Calgon #349 4 years ago

    Absolute nonesense(proof?) Ive witnessed so many Sony trolls over the years that your findings make me laugh(LOL really you must be having a laugh... Sony Fanboys are the most amusing bar none) they are and remain to be some of the least rational, least informed and thick headed posters around. You chose two sites I never knew existed, not really a great start that, gamespot, IGN, Eurogamer and other places I've visited often are where I draw my conclusions.

    Edit: I see what you're doing now, so this conversation is over, good day to you sir.

    Come on guys, 360 owners are giving gamers a bad name.

    That sentence is wrong on so many levels that, I really only needed to quote it.
    Edited by 5 at 20/11/07 @ 17:26

  • symbiote #350 4 years ago

    So: it has shit combat, shit framerate, v-sync issues and over-indulged cutscenes that drag on and on...

    Sounds, well, shit really.

    Roll on Final Fantasy.

  • DjFlex52 #351 4 years ago

    Please don't bother with IGN LOL they are the most biast gaming site of all time.

    @evilfoxhound

    I assume you meant "biased", evil?
    Why do so many actually think !well established gaming sites would all of a sudden become biased? It's ridiculous

  • menage #352 4 years ago

    Fanboys are everywhere. They're just insecure people who don't know if they made the right decision and need to slam the others to proof their worth.

    I do welcome a good argument though, but the shit they produce is mostly fabricated shit which they make up in their imaginary world.

    Does anyone know where the word Troll originated from in this context? That would be nice to know seeing as I'm seeing it daily.

  • 7creature #353 4 years ago

    Well, living under the bridge could be really boring. So biting the legs of the passagers off or simply harrasing them is probably welcome entertainment I guess.

  • TRUTH #354 4 years ago

    Well it seems to be pleasing many game reviewers:

    http://ww w.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/9...

  • TRUTH #355 4 years ago

    Well it seems to be pleasing many game reviewers:

    http://ww w.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/9...

  • DocTep #356 4 years ago

    Krudster: "I completed the game on sunday morning and wrote the review monday morning, if my above comment needed clarifying. Sigh."


    I can only guess that's aimed towards myself since I haven't seen anyone else ask the same question. I don't know why you're sighing at answering that, given that you put up the review and then several pages of comments later stated "Having now played it through to completion..." There were several hours between the review time stamp and the time stamp of your comment, so yes, I felt it did need clarifying.

    I'll put the tone of your reply down to your frustration at the negative reaction many people seem to have had towards your review, since I've only made the one comment in this entire thread asking a reasonable enough question, without having made any criticisms of the actual review myself.

  • Scimarad #357 4 years ago

    Are we STILL talking about this?!
    Edited by 1 at 20/11/07 @ 19:53

  • Lexx87 #358 4 years ago

    IF YOU PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT WHY ARE YOU ON THIS WEBSITE? I hate and want to hurt people who type in caps but...I felt like it was needed. Can we shut this comment thread down? All this negativity is going to bring what happened in Ghostbusters 2.

  • Lin #359 4 years ago

    "the more you involve yourself in the events and actions in the game, the more you start to enjoy the characters in the game"

    oh my god! it's like it's some sort of "role-playing" game!

    the setting is also a bit meh; it's just KoTOR without the license. It even has a cheap knock off of the force.

  • darkbhudda #360 4 years ago

    The graphical glitches are noticeable and happen all the time, we're not talking minor glitches. Characters disappear, shadows on peoples faces are horrible during conversations and glitches really take you out of the game they are that noticeable. To put that into context, I didn't notice it happening on Gears of War or any other game people have complained about.

    All that said, this is still a must buy game. It's a game of the year contender for sure. If they polish up the sequels a bit they will get 10s across the board. I just hope they don't do a "you wake up in a strange place with amnesia" crap they usually do. I know companies do that for the crybabies who complain they

    It does feel a lot like the KOTOR series in mission and level design. Even some of the aliens feel like they are from KOTOR because of Bioware animation styles and character design. Though some of the aliens are very cool.

    They have upgraded the cinematic style a bit so some conversations feel a lot closer to a movie than in previous games.

    There were a lot of elevators in the Citadel however I enjoyed them because of the conversations between the crew members, some of which can be very dark depending on who you had with you.

  • smoothn00dle #361 4 years ago

    Gamespot give MassEffect 8.5 as well and cite some major issues with the game from 9.

    The talking game that shit at fighting.

  • smoothn00dle #362 4 years ago

    Krudster, I have a question for u.

    How do u know the frame Per Second(fps) of 360 and PS3 games?

    What is the fps for Mass Effect and Uncharted?

  • Kryon #363 4 years ago

    The thing that PS3 fangirls don't understand is that the 360 isn't graced with the same lenient scoring system as the PS3. Most PS3 games are utter shite (as we all know) so when you get a game like Uncharted they score it in context against whatever else is available for the same console. If Uncharted were on the 360 it would have scored no more than a 3/10 because of the wealth of amazing titles available on the superior 360 ;-)

  • JackB #364 4 years ago

    OK, just played through the first 3 hours.

    WOW! I'm not a big RPG fan and the stories always seem really weak and I rarely ever finish an RPG before getting bored. The Mass Effect conversation system, voice acting and characters are so far beyond anything I've ever seen I'm completely blown away.

    We've all heard the, "it's just like a movie" comments for the last 20 years. This is far and away the closest I've seen yet.

    Yeah, the combat isn't the greatest, but if I want great combat I'll try COD 4 or some other shooter. This is all about the story. It really feels like you make a difference during the conversations. If you see two or three subjects you'd like to pursue, sometimes choosing one path eliminates the others, so you don't feel like in most games, where you just keep picking each question until they're all gone. Here is seems like your choices really matter.

    And the facial expressions and eye movements are amazing. Truly impressive. If you buy it for the combat you'll be disappointed, but if you buy it for the RPG elements, you'll be blown away.

  • 7creature #365 4 years ago

    So basically this game has enough RPG elements mixed in to appease to players new to RPGs it seems. So far I got the impression it is KotOR without license with superior graphic and design (which is not surprising - it is rather required I guess). In other words, probably worth playing/buying after some time and price drop (or on PC hopefully), entertaining but nothing earthshattering - i.e. just another good game.

    Well, after Baldur's Gate II, next Bioware RPGs were too easy, too predictable and aimed toward wide audiences (not that BG without mods was difficult, but it was definitely complex (and awesome :-)). I mean - for me, BG serie is better than all the following Bioware games toghether. Way better. That said, I enjoyed NWN and KotORs - even though there were almost no challenges, maps were simple, small and straightforward, equipment selection was choosed by the Munchkin's Digest, and I would say the basic gameplay was powergameplay :-)

    And why am I babling about past? Because the game I would like to see from Bioware would be Baldur's Gate III (OF COURSE NOT sequel, just the game using the same style - hardcore RPG). But that's apparently not going to happen any time sooner (or any time). Well, better something (MA) than nothing then...
    Edited by 1 at 21/11/07 @ 07:53

  • krudster #366 4 years ago

    Yes DocTep, it was more a case of having to explain something that should have already been evident from the dozens of other comments that I'd finished the game. I spoke of completion times, and so on. No hard feelings, it was a long day!

  • mark1 #367 4 years ago

    I watched some gameplay footage on EGTV and it looks absolutely shit.

  • roboto #368 4 years ago

    Now having played this game right through the citadel. As some one has already beaten me to the post - you play this game for action you will be disappointed.

    For the one fact that everyone feels the game slows down at the Citadel after Eden is because contrary to what is implied in many reviews my thoughts on this is that ME is not an action RPG, it's an RPG with Action elements.

    The game's main focus is around choice, dialogue and story. And it's obvious where they put most of their effort, I've never seen a game better directed in my life. Clearly when you can TELL that 110% of the effort is put towards dialogues, story and choices, this is essentially the 3 main components of any 'real' RPG.

    Combat is easy. Combat can probably be run and gun. At the end of the day I didn't care about the combat. It's all about dialogue. Bioshock is an action RPG. Not Mass Effect. Get it straight, get it right. You put down on paper how much time you spent talking to people and in a non 'action' environment, and how much time you spent fighting and clearly you'll see a majority of you time is spent advancing a story - that you want to play your way.

    Want an even more mind blowing experience playing ME? Level up your charm and intimidate talents to unlock better dialogue.. hahah.. sooo good.

    Game was reviewed out of context. 8/10? As an Action - RPG. lol I'm starting to begin to think Krudster was being nice now.. hahaha. As an RPG first then action easily 10/10

  • smoothn00dle #369 4 years ago

    Sounds like denial to me. How can u judge a game base on part of the game, not the whole. Mass Effect make up by both RPG and Action. If one fail, it is not a 9.

  • NickJD #370 4 years ago

    Bioshock had a great story but it failed as a FPS, there are many games out there with better FPS mechanics, so why did it get a 10/10?. My guess is because as a package the reviewer found it worthy. He overlooked the problems of Bioshock, bad ending lame boss fight at the end, piss easy difficulty. Yet he never stops harping on about Mass effects problems to the point of missing out many elements of the game in his review.

    I couldn't give a shit if he scored it 5/10, just saying to many reviewers are hypocrites when it comes to reviews and will gladly skim over faults if they like the genre or the game, and home in on the faults of a game that is not his style or his favourite genre.

    He gave Sega rally 9/10 that's all I need to know about his reviews. That game had many problems, lack of tracks, shallow gameplay, average graphics with slow down in places, yet it gets 9/10. If you're going to mark one game down for its faults then mark every damn game down for there faults.

    No excuses.

  • DjFlex52 #371 4 years ago

    Sounds like denial to me. How can u judge a game base on part of the game, not the whole. Mass Effect make up by both RPG and Action. If one fail, it is not a 9.

    @smoothn00dle

    Denial?? You are really clueless, aren't you?
    I've read your rants against PC and pro-PS3 in other threads and i've come to the conclusion you don't know too much about gaming and you're just a PS3 fanboy who likes arguing.

    Games aren't and shouldn't be judged by parts of the game. Its the sum of all the parts that make that particluar game in relation to its genre.

    For instance, Uncharted is an ACTION game with good story, great graphics, ripped off GOW gameplay with average platforming and mundane puzzles.
    Mass Effect can't be judged the same way since it is an RPG, at heart. RPGs used to utilize turn-based actions only, years ago. Now devs make RPGs with FPS action (Oblivion) & 3rd person action (Mass Effect) and turn-based (Blue Dragon). But they are all RPGs and shouldnt be reviewed with the action elements at the forefront of the review.



  • JackB #372 4 years ago

    This could be the most impressed I have been with a game since Gears. WOW factor is very high. And yes, that's with some minor graphics issues on occaision. The sum of the parts far far exceed any nits.

    It would be a shame for some people to get caught up in the nits and miss out on probably the most amazing story/game I've seen. It has a metacritic review of 93. Think about that.... How can a game score that high with so many problems? It's because it's flat out amazing and redefines how conversations should work in games. And it's not just the conversations it's the excellent story, music and voice acting.
    Edited by 1 at 21/11/07 @ 19:40

  • DocTep #373 4 years ago

    Krudster: "Yes DocTep, it was more a case of having to explain something that should have already been evident from the dozens of other comments that I'd finished the game. I spoke of completion times, and so on. No hard feelings, it was a long day!"


    Fair enough, we all have those types of days.

    I've always assumed that you would finish any game before a review, and wouldn't have questioned you about it had it not been for your later comment which I guess I misinterpreted. Yes, you did talk of completion times, but also used the time of a reviewer from one of the sister sites as an example - however, looking back I can see that you probably meant that as a way of backing up your point and I put two and two together and came up with five.

  • smoothn00dle #374 4 years ago

    @DjFlex52

    But it doesn't break like Mass Effect. If a car engine perform badly, will u give a car must buy recommendation despite is a BMW. The frame rate drop to a point that so noticeable and so often, it is worrying. If all the review give this game a 9, it is a big "fuck u" for free speech! By the way, Edge mag score this game a 7/10.

    Do u have a problem with free speech? I speak my mind about this industry with reasons. If u like to act like a cowboy, labeling people that disagree with u. Fuck U people and Fuck you, too, George, John and Tony!


  • DjFlex52 #375 4 years ago

    But it doesn't break like Mass Effect. If a car engine perform badly, will u give a car must buy recommendation despite is a BMW. The frame rate drop to a point that so noticeable and so often, it is worrying. If all the review give this game a 9, it is a big "fuck u" for free speech! By the way, Edge mag score this game a 7/10.

    @smoothn00dle

    You haven't even played the game so you don't even know the answer on a personal basis. Which is why I criticized your comments, in the first place.
    You have no hands on experience in what you're talking about.

    And the issue isn't about free speech...its about knowledge which you seem to lack because of your biased attitude.
    A game doesnt break, as you called it, (even a biased scored one) and average over 9/10 on GameRankings & Metacritic. That's my problem with all of your comments. You exaggerate to the extreme to get your "point" across (and it doesn't work) and, in the end, you wind up with an argument about "free speech" instead of the qualities of the game.

  • smoothn00dle #376 4 years ago

    half of the people haven't play the game still make comments. Why should I be any different? Have u finished the game?

    My analysis is based on two video reviews form Gamespot and GameTrailer. Just by looking at the video and read a lot of reviews. It give me an impression this game is flaw. May be everyone has different standard on "flaw", but for me poor FPS and texture tearing is flaw.

    If u don't like my comment, ignore me like I care. But labeling people is the dirrty trick from DickC to shoot down freedom. I think u better than that.

  • TRUTH #377 4 years ago

    Look at these below reviews!...A majority like it.

    It's better then Oblivion, KOTOR and most other RPG's. Not 'Perfect' but dam fine. The points made are hugely exaggerated; esp by people who have take every comment to the extreme, and many PS3 fans.

    http://ww w.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/9...

  • ChrisTop #378 4 years ago

    HAH! More comments than UDF. ~_~

  • jack_klugman #379 4 years ago

    It give me an impression this game is flaw. May be everyone has different standard on "flaw", but for me poor FPS and texture tearing is flaw.

    Game am flaw!

  • apan #380 4 years ago

    "Game am flaw" is as funny as "all you base are belong to us".

  • lennon #381 4 years ago

    OK first off I have played the game and am about 4 hours in.

    I have an elite with a VGA cable so that you are all aware of my setup before I say that the technical issues that have been mentioned have in no way affected my enjoyment of the first four hours. Sure the textures pop in but its not a great problem and yes there is a slight vsync issue but its really not a big problem.

    Loving it so far story seems great and the visuals are spot on and the action parts so far are pretty good as well and I have hardly any powers yet either.

  • Pac #382 4 years ago

    @lennon

    That's good to hear.

    Don't know if it is of any help to anyone but I have just reserved it from Currys (you can pick it up after an hour).

    They then sell it to you for the web price of £34.99 which is cheaper tham I have seen it anywhere.

  • Xerx3s #383 4 years ago

    My copy is comming through the mailbox any moment now... \0/

    /taps desk
    /looks at watch

  • NickJD #384 4 years ago

    So this is like a prequel to devil may cry 4?, damn I thought it was a RPG. I was going to buy this today as well. Oh well I guess I should thank Kristan for letting me know the score, all other reviewers called this a RPG and even on Microsofts website it's listed as a RPG

    fucking liars

  • Pac #385 4 years ago

    Spent the first hour trying to get the main character to look like me.

    Either I am some sort of freak or there are not enough skins as it still looks nothing like me.

  • Xerx3s #386 4 years ago

    You're a freak. XD

  • Swann #387 4 years ago

    How can you give Halo 3 10 and Mass Effect only 8?

  • medomali #388 4 years ago

    Good review!

  • Yaz #389 4 years ago

    "How can you give Halo 3 10 and Mass Effect only 8?"

    Maybe it's because... and this is just a guess btw... Rob liked Halo 3 more than Kristan liked Mass Effect?

    Yeah I know, it's a crazy idea. ;)

  • GamesConnoisseur #390 4 years ago

    I still went and purchased Mass Effect despite critical review regarding framerates and vsync, both of which I loathed.

    Played up till 5 am today after getting it yesterday, and that is most unusual for me, not have done that with BioShock, Galaxy or Rachet & Clank.

    I only noted a very few occasions of vsync, and a smattering of big frame problems in 9 hours played so far, but texture popping are so regular and just accepted as not really a big problem.

    Wondered if Krudster and I are playing the same game?! If you remember, I flagged up big problems with my X360 for BioShock (freezings and big frame rates drops) but most of you did not? So some sort of hard drive caching issue at play?

    Yes its dialogue heavy, lots to absorb and avoid if not keen on that style. However I loved the feel of being involved in a very gripping scifi novel which Mass Effect certainly is! Combat is okay and still of the KOTOR/Jade mold and not certainly not equal to Gear of War 3rd person shooter. I DONT see it in this way as those who do would perhaps be disappointed but for space opera RPG this stands out. I am giving this game a very good thumb up and certainly worth having!

    DAMN where is that last two keepers hiding at the Citadel Station?!
    Edited by 1 at 24/11/07 @ 16:13

  • hybridial #391 4 years ago

    This game is worth a 10. Sorry, but your review was lame, not fair, and just a joke. But there's been a few reviews like that for the game. Guess you must all be too busy playing Halo 3 to bother about a game with a good story.

  • Miths #392 4 years ago

    I played for eight hours last night (including replaying the first hour with a new character) and I absolutely love it.
    I had only just left The Citadel before I called it a night, so I guess the potential repetitiveness of most of the explorable planets is one thing I may still end up writing down as something I wasn't quite satisfied with, but otherwise it's so far definately in the run for the top three best gaming experiences I've had (and yep, I've played Planescape Torment, Fallout, Baldur's Gate 2 etc., if we just count the RPGs).

    The well written and mostly amazingly voiced dialogue (I picked a female character just so I could get Jennifer Hale's voice over, oh - and yeah, that upcoming lesbian romance thing is a probably a nice bonues as well of course :p), near life like characters and animation, overall extremely impressive graphics, highly entertaining combat (maybe not quite up to 3rd person shooter standards, but it's definately a nice change of pace for an RPG) - it all heavily outweighs the in my opinion minor technical problems.
    Sure, there's stuttering and slightly too frequent framerate drops, but I was expecting Two Worlds bad (ie. abysmal, seemingly even after the recent patch) - it's not even close.
    And the few seconds of texture pop-in in some areas after load doesn't really do much of anything to detract from the experience for me.

    In terms of the overall exeperience I very much expect I would come very close to giving this a 10 (still got a lot of game left though). Taking the technical issues and perhaps some less than perfect gameplay elements into account it would probably have to be a 9.

  • PameBoy #393 4 years ago

    Well I finally decided to give this a go this evening even though I'm concentrating on assassin's creed and mario galaxy a the mo. Played about 5 hours in, exploring around the citadel.

    The first thing that strikes me is that the EG reviewer must be insane if he honestly thinks this is an "action game with RPG elements" - it is, very clearly and unquestionably an RPG in the exact same mold as KotOR and Jade Empire (which I've also started playing recently). Yes, the combat system is based on a GRAW / GoW third-person shooter style, but that's all it is - the combat system of an epic RPG. Jade Empire has a real-time combat system, and that doesn't make it "Double Dragon with RPG elements".

    This is definitely a Bioware game, and and to be perfectly honest it's not something I'd be comfortable describing as "next-gen" in any way. Bioware were releasing RPGs ten years ago that are structurally very similar to Mass Effect, in the way the interactions and exploration are paced and constructed. Aside from a stramlined dialogue system that's actually just a faster, more immersive disguise for the old dialogue trees, this game shows that the company really haven't moved on much in any important way since Neverwinter Nights. Whether you think this is a good thing or not depends on your preference when it comes to RPG structure. If you like the old-school Bioware style, you'll like this. If you're tired of that and want something genuinely new... it ain't here.

    The graphics are certainly gorgeous, despite the well-documented tearing and pop-in issues, which do severely drag down the professionalism in places but don't significantly harm gameplay. The animations, however, are still stiff and wooden in the same way all Bioware's 3D games have been - I'm puzzled as to how anybody could describe the facial animations as lifelike and naturalistic. Bioware need to work out how to *not* make characters appear like constipated wooden puppets, especially now we have games like assassin's creed where the main character's movements are so fluid, so seamless, that he becomes almost invisible to the player.

    Well there's a lot more I could say but I'll play through a bit more first. As much as I disagree with Krudster's handling of the review, I don't think I can argue with the actual score, since I'm finding the game actually very old-fashioned, heavy-handed and ponderous. Things seem to move along at a crawl, and Jade Empire - which, as I mentioned above, I'm also playing now, is the better game, with Planescape: Torment remaining *by far* Bioware's crowning achievement in RPG writing. In fact, if someone was looking for an epic, star wars-inspired sci-fi RPG, I'd point them to Final Fantasy XII long before I'd reccommend this.

  • vx-chemical #394 4 years ago

    Pameboy:
    I cant see what your getting at when you say the convesation system is old fashioned. True you select what you want to say like you did in the old days, but you cant really change that unless you want to make a craptastic game like Oblivion.

    I can agree with Torment being the best RPG ever made, but Bioware only put forth the infinity engine.

    Bioware had as much hand in Torment, as Epic have had with Mass Effect (maybe a tad bit more, but not much)

    Torment was made by Black Isle.

  • dudefella #395 4 years ago

    Having finally spent the better part of yesterday (about 10 hours) with this game, I can say this: Kristan Reed, you're out of your god-loving mind. That is all.

  • TheJuriel #396 4 years ago

    My 360 just scratched my Mass Effect dvd into unplayable condition on its second day...

    Thanks, MS.

  • dryden555 #397 4 years ago

    fun game in terms of the epic sci-fi story, but the combat system is considerably less fun than what we got in KOTOR. You cannot control your teammates directly and their AI is braindead. And the enemy AI is just as braindead. if you were looking forward to this game because it would have combat interface like KOTOR, you will indeed be disappointed.

  • smoothn00dle #398 4 years ago

    the hype start wearing out.

    The games that live up to the hype is
    COD4
    Halo3(From M$ and it runs well, miracle!!!)
    Super Mario Galaxy
    MP3
    Bioshock

    hype- busted
    Mass Effect
    Lair
    Assassin Creed

    Surprise game of the year
    Uncharted: Drake's fortune
    Ratchet and Clank: TOD

    Debatable
    Heavenly Sword
    Warhawk

  • DjFlex52 #399 4 years ago

    You're so console biased, smoothn00dle!
    That can be the only reason you would forget "The Orange Box" on your list of living up to the hype. Could it be because the PS3 version hasn't been released yet?

    Ratchet & Clank wasn't a surprise...it was expected and was the PS3's life support system til Uncharted came out since Lair and Heavenly Sword didn't sway consumers to buy your favorite machine :p

  • smoothn00dle #400 4 years ago

    I only put new games here.

    The Orange Box - repackage two years old game *v*
    Good value but new game? Noooooo

    Ratchet was expected hype, where do u get that form? R&C wasn't expect better looking and review than Heavenly sword.

  • PameBoy #401 4 years ago

    @vx-chemical:

    Black Isle! Of course, how could I forget? Forgive my 'tard-iness.

    My point about the conversation is that it's not actually new - the idea was it was going to be a whole next-gen, incredibly convincing approach to dynamic dialogue. Which it isn't - they've just redone the old dialogue system and made it flow much better to make things sound more like a natural conversation. It's an improvement, certainly, but it's not *new*. You can generally still go back and go through all the different dialogue options in the same way as before.

  • Miths #402 4 years ago

    "... I'm puzzled as to how anybody could describe the facial animations as lifelike and naturalistic..."

    I think I used that description on the previous page (well, "near lifelike";) - and I stand by it.
    Maybe most of the people I talk to (which aren't exactly all that many either, I like to keep to myself) are just so wooden that you could mistake them for computer game characters :p, but around 13 hours into the game I still find myself thoroughly impressed by dialogue sequences - voice work as well as facial animation. The only part of the latter that doesn't quite cut it is the lip synching, which I often feel is a bit off, but overall I think what they've pulled off here is amazing.

    "...especially now we have games like assassin's creed where the main character's movements are so fluid, so seamless, that he becomes almost invisible to the player..."

    I'm also playing Assassin's Creed at the moment, and obviously you aren't just talking about facial animation (if in fact you were referring to that at all, but considering its huge impact on the dialogue sequences I imagine you were?), but also general body movement during exploration and combat.
    And yep, Mass Effect is definately far behind AC in that regard, but as indicated above I still think - at least for me - that dialogue animation has a much more significant impact on my overall experience in a dialogue heavy RPG like this, and that was really what I had in mind when I used the term lifelike.
    In Assassin's Creed I'm constantly marvelled by the fluid movement, while in Mass Effect I only really notice facial animation because that's what I feel is standing out in that game (and apparantly body and movement animation wasn't so bad that it caught my attention for entirely different reasons :)).

  • PameBoy #403 4 years ago

    Yes, I was talking about the facial animation as well as player movement. To be fair I think Mass Effect comes out on top in terms of voice work, which is the one area that lets AC down in the "convincingness" stakes. If Altair had a good voice actor, I think he'd stand out as a new icon in gaming - but Mass Effect's voice work is uniformly excellent, which does make up to some extent for the fact that I think everybody looks like they've been botoxed into oblivion. I can't deny that so far, all of ME's characters do have a lot of... well, character.

    As far as I can remember, the best voice acting & facial animation I've seen in a game was Soul Reaver 2. I haven't played that in years though, so I could be remembering it as better than it was...

  • DjFlex52 #404 4 years ago

    The Orange Box - repackage two years old game *v*
    Good value but new game? Noooooo

    @smoothn00dle

    Man, you are really clueless.
    You contradict your own statement.
    First you say it's a repackaged 2 year old game and then in the next breath say it's....good value?
    Err...the reason it's a good value is because of Ep. 2, Portal & TF2 (3 all NEW games) plus HL2 & Ep. 1, so it's NOT just a repackaged 2 year old game.
    And the overall package DID live up to the hype and the delays besides being a good value.

  • DjFlex52 #405 4 years ago

    Ratchet was expected hype, where do u get that form? R&C wasn't expect better looking and review than Heavenly sword.

    @smoothn00dle

    Any game that is a bonafide successful franchise is given more hype than an unknown first time IP. All the game sites and magazines have been hyping R&C since Insomniac (a respected dev company) finished Resistance: FOM.
    Ninja Theory's only game before Heavenly Sword was the mediocre Kung Fu Chaos on Xbox.

    As I said earlier, I think you argue just for the sake of it. Whether it's your opinion or it's free speech, you are dead wrong.

  • smoothn00dle #406 4 years ago

    u don't even know what contradict is.

    contradict statements is two statements that can't exist in the same time and prove each other correct.

    Orangebox is 2 yrs old. That's true. Orangebox is added value good. That's true, too.

    it is pain me to see nowadays education standard fall so far.

  • Miths #407 4 years ago

    "... it is pain me to see nowadays education standard fall so far."

    Ehm... not to barge in on your little discussion here, but if you're going to criticize someone else's educational level, you might want to get your own in check first.
    I usually stay away from commenting on other people's grammar and spelling (and try to avoid making too many mistakes myself), but this one was just a bit too tempting and funny :).

  • DjFlex52 #408 4 years ago

    true, Miths...LOL

    "Orangebox is 2 yrs old. That's true. Orangebox is added value good. That's true, too. "
    @smoothn00dle

    Orange Box is not 2 years old....so it is a contradiction. Did you even read my last post? There are 3 new games in Orange Box. People aren't buying it for HL2.
    And if it was, you should feel worse since a 2 year old game is outselling R&C and Heavenly Sword combined ;)
    Why am I trying to explain anything to a fanboy?


  • dk_rare #409 4 years ago

    I don't know why there are 500 posts of arguments for Mass Effect, but it really is a game worth owning. BioWare are so brilliant that they could make a poo simulator RPG and I would still preorder it.

    I'm STILL playing Jade Empire to this day and enjoying it. BioWare are just that good.

    The Lesbian Cut Scene is also great, although for some reason the internet seems to have chosen the wrong scene, the internet thinks the fuss was over the scene with the Consort.

    Shame there is no gay scenes though. I like to know the option is there if I ever want to try something new =P

  • RamblinSydRumpo #410 4 years ago

    I'm appalled at all the ridiculously high scores this game is getting. All they've done is tweaked the conversation system from KOTOR and attempted (from a technical standpoint, unsuccessfully) to give it a coat of graphical next-gen polish. The animation is rubbish, the combat system is really clunky and the much praised facial animation is unconvincing. Yes, the voice acting is quite good, but so it should be with that kind of cast list. This does nothing to advance the RPG genre in any way. It can be quite enjoyable at times but it really annoys me to see reviewers saying you can overlook the technical glitches. We shouldn't be accepting games that are quite obviously not finished. It's setting a very bad precedent when bug ridden stuff like this is being praised so highly.

  • smoothn00dle #411 4 years ago

    Half-life2 released on November 16.2004. To be extract is three years old. The game engine is three old compare to Halo3 and COD4. Orangebox is value add product. Can u imagine Orangebox without Half-life2 as a game?

    About Fanboyism, you can talk! What is the R&C sales have to do with Orangebox? U think better sales equal better game. Driver3 form Atari, sold also three millions copies. According to your logic, Driver3 is way better game than Orangebox.

    The reasoning part is what I am worry about. People don't know grammar, they can read a book and learn the rulez. Countries don't teach students reasoning skill, just countries without reasons.

  • DjFlex52 #412 4 years ago

    @smoothn00dle

    Oh, and your comments have "reason"?
    That's hilarious...keep believing that.

    As usual, btw, you took my statement about sales out of context. We were talking about hype, the Orange Box as a new game and value which all are connected to sales. Yes, I can imagine the Orange Box without HL2. It wouldn't be the best videogame value of all time but definitely worth buying. There are many more hours of gaming in Portal, HL2 Ep2 and TF2 than single linear non-online adventures like Heavenly Sword and R&C put together.

    Also, the source engine used in 2004 is not the same used at present. HDR wasn't even shown until after HL2 was released.
    You are truly clueless!

  • Kryon #413 4 years ago

    "contradict statements is two statements that can't exist in the same time and prove each other correct. "

    Huh? ...Are you talking about the Van Damme movie 'Time Cop' or are you just on crack (as usual) ?

    Honestly man, you sound like some kind of retarded weasel. Please, never ever try to correct anyone else's spelling/grammar. It makes you look like a spastic.

  • Flub #414 4 years ago

    I've been playing this all weekend and I have to say it's the best game I've ever played and I've played a lot.

    The story, voice cast and sheer atmosphere are all top notch. The combat is extremely entertaining and one mission in particular was the finest gaming experience I've had in a long time.

    Yes there are some frame rate issues. Yes there is texture popup (But not geometry popup like I suspect some of you are assuming). I never noticed any vsync problems (If there was vsync issues it certainly didn't effect my experience). The texture popup is annoying but I got so into the plot that it became almost unoticable and the frame rate drops didn't kill my enjoyment once.

    Please. If you've decided to drop the game because Eurogamer said it had technical problems give it a go anyway. The problems are nowhere near as big a problem as people are making out.

    I'm currently level 42 on my first run through (About 17 hours so far) and I'm mopping up a few final side quests before I tackle the last couple of missions. After that I plan to play it through again but this time go for renegade points instead of paragon.

    GOTY for me. Personally I'd give it a 10.

  • foistymaster #415 4 years ago

    It was in my list; but after the review I feel that I will leave it on the amazon shelf to take some dust, will not spend time on this one. Bit sorry, was looking foreward to it... :((

  • kangarootoo #416 4 years ago

    Played this over the weekend. Liking it a lot. Very Bioware, very western RPG.

    The combat works once you get to grips with using all of the options available.

    A patch to fix the keep mission would be nice (no spoilers for other readers following that comment please).

    The driving about on planet surfaces gets a bit repetetive, but the main quests have been pretty entertaining so far.

  • kangarootoo #417 4 years ago

    @foistymaster

    I wouldn't go solely on a review score. Both gamerankings and metacritic (which I tend to ignore) have ME averaging 90%+, so it just shows how subjective these things are. Rent it or something and then make up your own mind.

  • foistymaster #418 4 years ago

    puah... not worthy.

  • RamblinSydRumpo #419 4 years ago

    How can you seriously contemplate giving this a 10?? If a car looked like an Aston Martin but kept dropping to 5 miles an hour intermittently and had the instrument panel keep disappearing then popping back on you'd be right to object. I don't see why we should accept shoddy programming in order to get the game rushed out before Christmas which is very obviously what happened. I'd rather have waited until 2008 and got a game that ran at an acceptable frame rate, didn't lock up intermittently and actually drew textures in advance of walking right up to them. There have been lots of times when somebody wearing a completely featureless outfit will suddenly change completely as all the detail pops in while standing right in front of them. This kind of stuff shouldn't just be shrugged off. There's a good game in here but it's in desperate need of more development time.

  • miiiguel #420 4 years ago

    This obviously is prepared to the special PS3 hardware. It has all the technical signs of such game.

    Than again, Bioware can do whatever they want, I'm in.
    Edited by 2 at 26/11/07 @ 12:32

  • smoothn00dle #421 4 years ago

    Quote form BJFlex52 "you should feel worse since a 2 year old game is outselling R&C and Heavenly Sword combined ;)"

    Now u said is not about sales is about hype. If u keep changing yr words, you can become a transformer aka ShitTalker.

    @Kryon
    A Van Damme fans here! Out of all the movie u can insult me, u use Time Cop. May I ask how old are u? Cyber Bully
    spelling/Grammer is easy but correct your flaw character would be difficult!

  • striker #422 4 years ago

    "spelling/Grammer is easy but correct your flaw character would be difficult"

    Looks like it isn't as easy as you think.

  • Pac #423 4 years ago

    I am not too bothered about the frame rate or pop up. What really annoys me is the shadow flicker.

    I am starting to think that it is something to do with my Sony Bravia LCD TV.

    Anyone else have the same problem or any advice?
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/07 @ 14:41

  • smoothn00dle #424 4 years ago

    @striker

    I am working on it *v*

  • DjFlex52 #425 4 years ago

    Quote form BJFlex52 "you should feel worse since a 2 year old game is outselling R&C and Heavenly Sword combined ;)"

    Now u said is not about sales is about hype. If u keep changing yr words, you can become a transformer aka ShitTalker.

    @smoothn00dle

    What's funny is that you keep changing my words not me. Now i'm not even sure if English is your third language.
    I wrote..."And if it was, you should feel worse since a 2 year old game is outselling R&C and Heavenly Sword combined."
    You omitted 4 words which changes the whole comment. I wrote "And if it was" because we were talking about Orange Box being a 2 year old game. And since it ISN'T a 2 year old game, my comment was an inconceivable possibility.
    BTW, I answered your last comment knowing full well you wouldn't understand my reply since comprehension isn't your strong suit.

    I'm glad to see others aren't taking one review as gospel for Mass Effect and are actually playing the game first before critiquing it. You should try it sometime, smoothn00dle.

  • Kryon #426 4 years ago

    "you can become a transformer aka ShitTalker"

    My name-ah Borat.

  • Asundai #427 4 years ago

    Hmm. I agree with a post i saw somewhere in this huge mess about EG seemingly being biased towards FPS games. First they give Halo 3 a 10.. which in my opinion it is not worthy of considering that it does nothing new and doesn't really stand out for anything other than being a Halo game. Then they give The Witcher, one of the best recent RPGs, a 7 - because it has RPG traits (wtf?). Then they give Mass Effect an 8 for equally ridiculous reasons..

    I guess it's just down to the individual reviewers' preferences, but it's still stupid. This is the only game of the last six months to have kept me up into the early hours of the morning so i can't fathom how this couldn't get a 9. Maybe not a 10 for the minor technical hitches (although personally i hardly notice them), but it seems silly to give fairly average shooters a higher rating than this. Yes, i'm a huge fan of (good) RPGs so i'm slightly biased towards them but shouldn't this game be reviewed from the perspective of someone who's a fan of the genre? It seems like it's that way for all the FPS reviews - i haven't seen any complaints of 'too much shooting' or 'not enough dialog options or plot development' in any EG FPS reviews...

  • DjFlex52 #428 4 years ago

    @smoothn00dle

    what was that last comment? Maybe English is your 4th language.
    I get a headache reading your comments.
    Please refrain from replying.

    Edit: believe me, I don't think anyone is taking your comments seriously. Re: They don't make SENSE!
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/07 @ 17:47

  • TRUTH #429 4 years ago

    This game has alot less glitches then PS3/360 Oblivion... it has a better frame rate then most games on this scale. It's been more entertaining then FF for me, and with none of those dreadful random battles. It has a few problems - but if you don't purposely look for them you just don't notice - these have been greatly exaggerated in most cases. A rpg fan should make sure to have this. If not sure click below.

    http://ww w.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/9...

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #430 4 years ago

    I agree Truth, you are aptly named.

    By the way, I think Edge have lost the plot, Their "difficult to get a ten" marking has started to confuse them. Didn't they give three games a ten in the last few months?
    Its like a football referee who has given a red card and realised he was wrong so has to even it up.
    edit- not that I'm saying this game should have had a ten!
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/07 @ 21:13

  • RamblinSydRumpo #431 4 years ago

    lavalant, you're talking absolute bollocks. This game has so many problems, they are impossible to ignore. Far worse than KOTOR ever was - and all it really is anyway is an updated version not the second coming some hysterical reviewers are praising it as. To be honest Eurogamer's score is overly generous. I'd give it a 7 at most.

  • smoothn00dle #432 4 years ago

    @DjFlex52

    The man from the old world live in the new age.
    So that is your issues. People's English not up to yr standard. It is the internet. Live with it! My contribution to the new form of English language. LOL

  • Grayvern #433 4 years ago

    At PameBoythe only thing provided by Bioware for Planescape Torment was the game engine Black Isle was entirely responsible for the story and everything else.

    Yes there isnt really much new but outside pen and paper or quantum computing there isn't a lot past Mass Effect. And what can be achieved takes even longer to get, want greyer decisions add another year want more story branches add half a year and so on and so forth.

    At least its not the JRPG, masqerading as an RPG but really a linear adveture story with grind up the arse.

    Mass Effect is an amazing game for those who like RPG's.

    What hasnt been pointed out is that the conversation wheel addsc significantly to the game because of the abstract way it portrays responses, which nudges you to taking more notice of the dialogue because you dont know exactly what is about to be said.

    Its weird that all the game reviewers review this by the standards of Gears in terms of the combat when its clearly an RPG, a more apt and less stupid way to go about it would be to ask, is the combat more fun than turn based or most other Role Playing Games, which it is.

    In fact the combat itself could be great with less than 100megs of alteration. All the combat really lacks is a dedicated button to take/ leave cover and better AI.

    Which brings me to my last point, the Game as an RPG deserves a 9 as an action game a 7 but who would play mass effect for its action.

    In the end it brings me to my dream game which is a collaberation between Bioware, Tim Schafer, and Epic.
    Bioware writes the overarching story and Roleplay mechanics, Tim does the characterisation, and epic does the combat, where skills are still applicable because they change things like recoil, size of aiming reticule, and skills available.

    Edited by 1 at 26/11/07 @ 23:55

  • dryden555 #434 4 years ago

    Grayvern, but the AI of BOTH the enemy and your teammates is pretty bad so the combat in Mass Effect gets a thumbs down from me. I enjoyed the combat in KOTOR much more

  • Grayvern #435 4 years ago

    Should have mentioned the Companion AI, its especially frustrating when Garrus's Sniper fire only serves to scare a paticularily mean looking wall.

    My point being it wouldn't take much to make the combat a lot better. Just better AI and a cover button. Most everything else is in place. Maybe an action cue and a more controll over your teamates. Still not that hard to do.

    Well that and Bioware shouldnt be penalised for trying to make RPGs more fun. And no one really came to the game for blistering action, I found KOTOR's fights fun mostly because of the stellar animation not because I was that involved. Very few fights were brilliantly tactically taxing.
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/07 @ 13:48

  • bobshirunkel #436 4 years ago

    @PameBoy
    I totally agree with you when you say, to paraphrase, it's nothing new. It's only next-gen in the sense that it's bigger and prettier than Kotor - it hits all the same gameplay buttons: collecting, levelling, advancing a story and creating a character. But I loved Kotor and I love this too. It's beautifully written and tremendous fun.

  • Beek4257 #437 4 years ago

    Timecop is from 1994, so - depending on Kryon's parents level of strictness - I'd say he should be in his late twenties, at the least.

    RESULT!

    I so don't get the point, though.

  • fightman #438 4 years ago

    fairplay this game is shit, if you wanna just read a load of text why not visit something called a library and do it properly instead of putting yourself through this wanky charade.
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/07 @ 20:16

  • TheJuriel #439 4 years ago

    Holy...crap.

    My game started getting Disk Read Errors when I got to galactic map. I checked the disc out, and was SURE it had scratches. I know what scratches look like.

    I browsed forums now, and learned it might be smudge of a sort, and tried to wipe them off with a soft cloth. And it worked.

    The galactic map doesn't give me errors anymore. I could read planet descriptions perfectly fine, when before it crashed if it stayed there for more than half a second.

    Holy DAMN is that weird... But I'm glad it at least seems to work. Further testing tomorrow.

  • menage #440 4 years ago

    Nice to see all the hate. I'm enjoying the hell out the game. seriously, why do people need to write 10 pages about why they think the game sucks if they aren't paid to do so is beyond me.

    @ pameboy

    Nice to see you analyzing facial animations in ME, comparing it to Altair who has a freaking hood over his face 90% of the time. These characters have some of the best modelling and lifelike features I've ever seen.

  • TedMoseby #441 4 years ago

    Nearly 20 hours in, and I'm loving it. if you're on the fence over the technical glitches, in my opinion they don't detract from a wonderful game. I'm about halfway through, and the biggest bugbear I have is with the shadows - in the same way that Oblivion's shadows really hampered the display of NPC faces under certain circumstances (particularly Captain Picard's!), the shadows in Mass Effect seem to be trying too hard and sometimes end up being a distraction rather than enhancing the imagery.

    Already looking forward to a sequel. It's obviously not everyone's cup of tea, nothing ever is, but it ticks all the boxes for me. Wholeheartedly recommended.

  • Kryon #442 4 years ago

    @Beek4257

    You are very accurate in your sleuthnyness, 28th b-day was just a few day ago ;-)

  • Xerx3s #443 4 years ago

    Truly a fantastic game. How on earth this game got that score from EG is beyond me (but then again, it isn't the first time EG hands out dubious scores). Quite simply, if you don't play it, you will miss out on the best game of the year if not past couple of years.

  • Sir_TimAlot #444 4 years ago

    Xerx3s +1

    Definately worth more than an 8 in my opinion, cracking game about 3 hours into second playthrough and already completely different experienece than 1st one. Could really benefit from some DLC in the near future.

  • JavaJawaUK #445 4 years ago

    Xerx3s +1

    Awesome game. 8? More like 10. I will be replaying ME, I will be completely ignoring Halo 3.

  • Guv #446 4 years ago

    Between this and Bioshock for game of the year for me (not tried mario yet), tough call but I think ME comes out on top. The game just has everything I could ask for, not flawless but perfect is boring.

    First EG review I really really disagree with, a high 9 at least.

  • PameBoy #447 4 years ago

    menage wrote:Nice to see you analyzing facial animations in ME, comparing it to Altair who has a freaking hood over his face 90% of the time. These characters have some of the best modelling and lifelike features I've ever seen.


    Well I'm not talking about Altair's face, genius. I'm talking about everybody else's.
    I agree that mass effect does have some nice facial modelling on some characters - a lot of the aliens look fantastic - but the facial animations have that usual Bioware stiffness where nobody appears to be having any kind of emotional response to anything that anybody ever says, and nobody has any kind of particular mannerisms or actual character. The top notch voice work makes up for it to a degree, but I can think of a whole load of games (Half Life 2, Soul Reaver 2, Assassin's Creed, even the Godfather) that have vastly superior animation (facial and otherwise).

    I'm heading for 15 hours in now and the game is turning out to be one of those games that I really like despite its obvious and glaring flaws. There's something very old-fashioned about its hopeless clunkiness that I find quite appealing. I'm sure this has been said before but it reminds me of star control 2 to an extent. I still don't think it's worth more than an 8 though (which is, let's not forget, a great score).

  • TheDudesRug #448 4 years ago

    I think the reviewer missed the point of Mass Effect.

    I'd probably give it an 8 too, but for none of the reasons listed in this review.

    I appreciate that EG is tightening up its scoring system after reading Edge for a couple of issues, but to miss the core concept of a major title is strange to say the least.

  • menage #449 4 years ago

    @ Pameboy

    "The top notch voice work makes up for it to a degree, but I can think of a whole load of games (Half Life 2, Soul Reaver 2, Assassin's Creed, even the Godfather) that have vastly superior animation (facial and otherwise)"


    In HL2, DR2, how long are you actually staring at those faces? Conversations are scripted out in a couple of minutes between action. I played ME for 3 hours yesterday, 2.5 hours of that was talking and watching someone up close. It's impossible to script emotional response all the time, especially because you can create your own face as well.
    Edited by 1 at 29/11/07 @ 10:06

  • RamblinSydRumpo #450 4 years ago

    I'm now on my second copy of ME due to unreadable disc errors. Unfortunately the second copy does the same thing. Having checked the forums it seems this is a pretty widespread problem that is only related to Mass Effect - in my case, all my other games work fine.
    How come this isn't newsworthy? Is Eurogamer investigating this or are they ignoring it because of all the advertising revenue?

  • striker #451 4 years ago

    /sarcasm on

    Yeah, they're probably hidding it, just as they gave the game an 8 instead of a 5 as it deserved.

    Capitalist pigs.

    /sarcasm off

  • Grogmonkey #452 4 years ago

    I think Tycho says it best:

    "You should never allow a meaningless, arbitrary integer promulgated by an arbitrary voice who came to power arbitrarily make decisions for you."

    That was actually said about Assassin's Creed, but it is applicable here, too. And, in fact, everywhere.

    Personally, I think it's pretty amazing. Over 10 hours in and I've just left Citadel Station. Went on to my first planet in the Mako and, despite my thoughts that it would be impossible, the game actually became MORE amazing. Extremely polished and unnecessarily deep (if, like me, you bother to read every single codex entry that pops up. Hell, I even read the codex entries about things a character has been talking about not 10 seconds beforehand). Bioware have clearly crafted a fairly complex universe with care and devotion and other such things.

    To throw my 2 cents worth of oars into the combat, 'is it a 3rd person shooter or an RPG' contraversy, I have to say that the first time I went into combat, I didn't think 'This is a 3rd person action game.' Strangely, it still felt very much like an RPG, only with real time combat. I'm not rulling out the possibility that that is simply down to my perception: I expected to experience an RPG, so that is what I feel like I'm playing, but my personal opinion is that it shouldn't be marked as an action game even if that is what you spend most of your time doing. Simply because it doesn't FEEL like an action game. Not to me, anyway. It's the subtle difference between appearances (what you perceive to be doing) and impressions(what you feel you are doing).

    Personally, I think the reason it's not as well received as expected is almost entirely down to the lack of lightsabers. And I don't mean a general 'because it's not set in the Star Wars universe' thing. I mean because it doesn't specifically contain any lightsabers. They seemingly make EVERYTHING more awesome.

    Also, the Elcor are absolutely no replacement whatsoever for HK-47 (pretty sure that was the designation). Presumably because, despite using the same speech mannerisms, they aren't homicidal robots bent on the destruction of all meat-sacks. Hearing the Elcor talk just makes me miss that loveable robot all the more :(

  • RamblinSydRumpo #453 4 years ago

    I don't understand how you can call this "extremely polished" with all the glaring technical problems it's got. It would have benefited from a lot more polish. I'm enjoying it but the constant hitching and the texture popping distracts from the good stuff. That's without mentioning the frequent unreadable disc crashes.

  • Grogmonkey #454 4 years ago

    Oops. I must have forgot add that little "except on the odd occassions things don't load in properly" caveat. Either that, or I wasn't refering specifically to the graphics. Or I was thinking about something completely different. I forget.

    Blame it on the fact I'm at work, and therefore often distracted :p

    Either way, I haven't had that many issues with the graphics. I think only twice there's been some noticable texture loading. Everything else has been perfectly fine for me.

  • Xerx3s #455 4 years ago

    I don't understand how you can call this "extremely polished" with all the glaring technical problems it's got.

    What glaring technical problems? That texture popup when you load a new area? Sorry but Halo 3 had far more disturbing bugs in it that completely ruined some moments (like music not being sure what to play, complete distortion of audio at certain points, complete freezing while in custom game lobby, etc.) and EG dismissed those as minor and went on to give that a 10/10.

    Games that where less good, less deep and had more bugs got a 10/10. Consistency? I think not.

  • GP79 #456 4 years ago

    At first wasn't too sure what to expect with this after the 8 score (I know 8 isn't a bad score but I think people were expecting a 9 or a 10 after 'that' Halo 3 review) but can safely say I am completely hooked now. I think the people that blast through this are somewhat missing the point - this is a game that you need to take your time over. The graphical 'glitches' imho have been made far too much of - they do not ruin the experience at all. My only downsides are the sparse checkpoints (although I now save all the time to avoid this annoyance - just like in the old days!) and I feel the achievements could have been handled better (use a power 75 times? use a different ally? WTF? What about all the collecting side missions? No achievements for them?)
    I definitely see this as an RPG with action leanings, rather than the other way round and also the best RPG of the year as well.
    I'd give mass effect 9 and I'd also give Liara one - oh no I'm turning into a Star Trek nerd who would like sexual relations all these fictional alien hotties. I bet my Mum's dead proud :)

  • gmmonkey #457 4 years ago

    Well, I've finished the game. The best game of the xbox 360, for me, so far. This is the largest emotional response to a game I've ever had. By the time the credits were rolling I was punching the air, going "YASS" dancing about playing air guitar to the pseudo 80's rolling credits music. Then, I was sad because I finished the game and started thinking about when they were going to release mass effect 2. Then I became sadder. Now I'm going to do a cartman and try and freeze myself in snow until they release the next one. Definetely on my top 3 games ever. It's one of those games that you think, "that was good" at the end then you start thinking, "THAT was really fucking good" a day later. AWESOME AWESOME.

  • hiddenranbir #458 4 years ago

    It doesn't have long loading times Krud.

    Witcher has long loading times.

    ME manages to load the Presidium quicker than Witcher can load a room.

  • dryden555 #459 4 years ago

    sorry xerxes but Mass Effect has obvious framerate and vert sync issues. The texture popup is distracting on a supposed "next gen" game. fun game but flawed in several non-trivial ways.

  • Harmonica #460 4 years ago

    Okay, after a few days play, I can't see how on earth such a poor review merited a high score. I have no idea how BioWare are going to turn around such a poor opening.

    The Citadel was pretty but sparse on the entertainment, and twatting around boring planets with such poor action controls is making me grate my teeth.

    Where exactly is the RP in this G?

    Yet to read the Edge review, but a summary 7 (or even 6) seems more on the mark thus far.

    Also - amusing to see the lead designer say it's more of an interactive movie (as if that's something to be PROUD of!). I have to say it's probably the most boring and uneventful movie I have ever seen, and I am a film student who likes watching boring and uneventful stuff like Tarkovsky's Solaris.

  • RichGL #461 4 years ago

    @Harmonica.

    What kind of a film student finds Tarkovsky's Solaris boring? I think you have completely missed the point of the film.

    Those bits where nothing happens for 5 mins are supposed to be making *you* think. All hail the 5 sec attention span generation eh?

    Edited by 1 at 01/12/07 @ 09:10

  • Harmonica #462 4 years ago

    But I said I like watching films like Solaris! Plenty of Solaris is boring, that's all :p And in Solaris, nothing happens for 20-30 minutes at a time!

    My criticism of Mass Effect is that is seems to aspire to (as referenced by Ken Thain) things like Alien and Battlestar Galactica, but there's too much purely empty game space without any narrative or action whatsoever.

    All the dune buggy sequences seem like filler, and then when you get to your destination you just have to shoot some dumbbot aliens and go on your merry way..

  • menage #463 4 years ago

    @Harmonica

    It's just a matter of perspective. I think the atmosphere is just so nice I don't mind walking around in emptiness. It only adds to the realism. If I can fly around the galaxy every inch is hardly going to be covered with shit to do.

    It also gives me time to drink beer and smoke. :p




  • DjFlex52 #464 4 years ago

    My criticism of Mass Effect is that is seems to aspire to (as referenced by Ken Thain) things like Alien and Battlestar Galactica, but there's too much purely empty game space without any narrative or action whatsoever.

    @Harmonica

    So I assume you want to go back to the times of linear RPGs with turn based
    combat and lots of "exciting" grind battles. Fortunately, it's not.

    It would have been better for you if Bioware just made the game on one small planet instead of a galaxy and with less dialogue choices so Mass Effect could be the ACTION rpg you want it to be instead of the RPG it is...which is all about story, character building, exploration and dialogue.

    This game isn't about action as true RPGs never are. It's a shame that because so many current games meld 2 or 3 genres together that reviewers expect it in every game. This game should have been reviewed by someone who enjoys 100% true rpgs and not expect it to be an action rpg, platform rpg or puzzle rpg.

  • Harmonica #465 4 years ago

    That's willfully misreading what I wrote. I love Alien and Battlestar (which are both filled with periods or episodes of inaction). I love KOTOR. I love the early dialogue and intrigue of Mass Effect. It's well handled.

    Only, then you have a gigantic area like the Citadel with a handful of people you can talk to properly. And once you've spoken to them, good luck finding any point to return there. Similarly, the Normandy. Why are all the interesting characters spread out so thinly? Why when I board the ship for the first time do I get precisely zero fanfare, and then I have to traipse to all the corners of it just to find anyone who can muster a few sentences worth. It's all so sparse. I'm begging at the table for some decent roleplaying, but so far it's been limited to the few conversations you have early on with the Captain, or the scenes at the council.

    Walking or driving around on featureless planets with crap enemies, with party members who you can't talk to is rubbish. It's not 'building atmosphere', it's just a lack of developed content.

    I've played it for 9 hours, a third of which has been spent on said planets, so maybe the next 15-20 hours will miraculously spring into life..

    edit: also, the point of action elements in RPGs should always be the implementation and embodiment of the role-playing the surrounds it. You can't talk your way through a game, and not have any action to show for it.

    As it is, though, there is too little of either role playing or action to deem it worthy of merit.
    Edited by 1 at 02/12/07 @ 17:11

  • captain-future #466 4 years ago

    Finished it tonight and am very pleased with it. 9+ from me.

    I immediately started a new round but this time I'll do things differently (last time a team member died, which I know now could have been avoided!).

  • RamblinSydRumpo #467 4 years ago

    Besides the pop-up and v-sync issues the bloody thing locks up at the most annoying times. I've had lots of crashes due to unreadable disc errors and it's also just frozen on occasion. There is also a problem with the volume levels of the dialogue so that you're constantly adjusting the volume up or down in order to hear what's being said or avoid being deafened. All of the planets are pretty much identical with different textures and colour schemes but cookie cutter topography. All of the ships and space stations etc. look identical (probably due to the constraints imposed by the format which wouldn't have been a problem with blu-ray, although I think time was also a factor as the game was obviously rushed out before christmas anyway) And I'm not the only one having issues - check the Bioware forums, there are lots of unhappy people. And this is my second copy of the game. And my 360 quite happily plays every other game without a hiccup. But I still find myself playing it...
    However it's not a 9 or a 10. If Assassin's Creed gets knocked for doing the same few things over and over, how can this score higher? It does the same thing over and over again but with lots of sometimes quite tedious conversations in between.

  • Vandrius #468 4 years ago

    If you're an aussie, don't let the games companies rip you off, buy it from somewhere online, eg;

    http://ww w.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-93gs... effect-84-j-70-1vee.html

    Blatantly self-serving, but even so.

  • corzair #469 4 years ago

    Nearing the end now

    this game for me is awesome!
    so it got slight glitches err - they last for a couple of seconds and then its ok
    It dosent get in the way of the experience at all
    Grat engaging game reminds me of Deus EX1 and 2 both wich i enjoyed
    and plays homage to lots of scif fi like Babylon5, Battlestar even dun and Aliens
    and colours remind me of Solaris.
    Solaris was excellent in the quite moments stuff was happening man anyway that another topic..

    I wish I could walk right round the presidium thou and the wards should have been bigger but i guess that might have turned into gta in space err now thats an idea!

    Enjoyed this game much more the Halo and Gears and even oblivion which I liked a lot.
    Take it slow enjoy the views - wow some of the views - enjoy

    Anyway My best game on the xbox360 by far!


  • kangarootoo #470 4 years ago

    Finished this once already, then started playing it again with a new character immediately, which surprised even me (what kind of idiot durprises themselves, I ask you).

    There may be some technical issues, but for me these range from minor to "I couldn't give two hoots" (the lod loading problem is pretty severe, but also as far as I'm concerned, really unimportant).

    I don't put lofty values on what is or isn't acceptable in a "next gen title". For me, getting fun in return for my money is acceptable, not getting any fun isn't. ME was fun almost all the time, so its a good game as far as I'm concerned.

    Its not a 10 for me, perhaps not even a 9. Two reasons. The side missions on uncharted worlds are severely repetative. And the inventory/upgrade system is housed inside an awful piece of UI "design". I could document you three better alternatives in about 1 hour, and I'm not even very good at that side of things.

    But overall a great game. Probably an 8 for me, though replay value might dip one toe into 9 territory. If they add some decent DLC at a later date (as the menu suggests) I will hoover it up quick smart.

  • dryden555 #471 4 years ago

    I discovered that if I ignore the truly repetitive 2ndary missions and stick to the main stuff, the game is better. The main story and dialog interface are the 2 best parts of the game. Unfortunately, this game has lots of rough edges in the RPG aspects and enemy AI of the game too. I'm playing at "veteran" level of difficulty and the game is too easy. Just grab the guns with the highest accuracy rating and shoot a lot. Mission complete. The KOTOR1 combat engine was simply better than this. Loved the sci-fi main story and the game deserves only a 6 without the story elements. Bioware should have done better.

  • AhrimaaN #472 4 years ago

    after about 10 hours into the game and only up to the second main quest mission, i pretty much whole-heartedly agree with this review, but am still finding it an utterly fantastic game that I just have to keep coming back to... who knows whether it's worth a second play through tho.

  • sirtacos #473 4 years ago

    Given the sort of games Eurogamer gave 8s to, Mass Effect deserves more. A 9 would be perfect, seeing as how the almost overwhelmingly epic, engrossing and beautifully told storyline more than outweighs the faults that the reviewer was so intent on emphasizing (not that I disagree with him on those - I don't want to give the impression that ME is a perfect game by any means).

    While I find Eurogamer's reviews to be more in line with my tastes than any site, I must say that in Mass Effect's case, the positives almost completely outweigh the negatives. We're talking elephant playing see-saw with a kitten here.

    Plus, implying that dialogue and character depth can be negative? Come on! Sheesh, I doubt anyone with half a neuron left in their brain plays Mass Effect to blow stuff up while completely ignoring anything remotely pertaining to a story.
    Edited by 1 at 21/04/08 @ 02:10

  • Tehren #474 3 years ago

    Utterly loved it. Haven't felt this way about a game since (probably) Deus Ex. It might be a little rough around the edges and painfully short, but still a 10/10 for me. The story, design (the gameworld, characters, ships, guns etc) and gameplay are superb. Best voice acting I've ever heard in a game too, great music too. Little touches, like the text-only encyclopedia entries were great, fleshing out a great universe.

    The side-missions sucked, but I did them all anyway.

    The reviewer's comments about B5 box sets were on the money (veteran of B5, DS9, BSG and Firefly here, with a little sprinkling of The Wire to keep it real).