Marketing rules Wii, not quality - report Comments by Robert Purchese

At least we're not out of a job just yet.

They said "solid reviewers".

lolpwned etc.

"It's Nintendo games that people buy on those platforms, and a few others"

As has always been the case with Nintendo consoles since the N64 days!

Surely that's just stating the obvious?

The Wii is a casual/mass market console, and I would say a huge part of it's audience people don't visit the likes of Eurogamer on a daily basis. In that case then, how else will people they know about these games? Especially with the Wii game market flooded with so much dross...

Same could be said of the PS1 too. Ah how I ine for tbe golen days of gaming when it was a hobbyist's hobby and games were all made for gamers and tended to sell based on mag review scores. Damn you casual gamers, damn you all. :(

Casual game: Developed easily, review scores don't matter.
Hardcore game: Developed thoroughily, review scores do matter.

It's nice that whatever quality of game you put out, it has the chance to sell, but as before, if all you're developing is casual, cash-in, easy rubbish, expect the people that have been playing games for decades to tell you exactly how crap you are.

Edit: The growing trend does seem to be that developing minigame collections etc. for the casual market is quick, easy and cost effective, leading to a growing reduction in actual quality of games. It's nice to see a developer say that people need to stop looking at the Wii as an easy route to free money.

Isn't that true of all platforms and all games?

Quality will sustain the sales but marketing is what initially sells the game. Just look at Call of Duty: World at War with 11 million sales or Assassins Creed and GTA IV with however many millions of sales.

What really makes these games better than the games that sell 100k or less?

Finally some sense, you indeed need a lot of money to get sales going on the Wii because of the Casual audience

they don't buy a lot of games, are not actively looking for them, play a long time with their existing games, only read about them in mainstream media like television guides, newspapers for info. And buy them in classic stores, so packaging is very important.

It seems to me that a Wii advert depicting a group of people (family and friends) laughing and waving the Wiimote around with a few splitsecond blink-and-you'll-miss-it snatches of the game in question is all that is needed to sell *ANY* game on that platform regardless of its quality. It isn't the video footage of the game that sells it to people, it's the fact that it is depicted as being fun to play and sociable.

A very clever way of selling games really, which is the entire point of advertising granted, but it is grossly misleading IMO. Every single Nintendo game advert that I've seen has used this tactic. I sometimes think that if the adverts only consisted of mostly gameplay footage that those Wii games would sell a lot less copies.

So true, unfortunately. I feel like crying when I see rare good games on the Wii not doing well, and then all those atrocious mini-game compilations and exercise games being sold by the bucket-load.
As much as I love Nintendo, they are very strongly to blame for this. In their crusade to attract the casual market, they have forgotten the hardcore gamers, and have lost their pride.
All games released on Nintendo consoles have a golden logo on it called the Nintendo Seal of Quality. That used to mean something a long time ago, but it seems they're handing them out like nightclub leaflets now.

As for Punch-Out, the only marketing I saw was the HMV launch with Joe Calzaghe which I attended plus a few TV ads. Madworld just came at the wrong time, when people have left their Wii's to gather dust on the shelf and Okami was never marketed properly....twice.

I saw a Boom Blox advert on TV the other day! It showed gameplay and everything.

For some strange reason it brought a little tear of pride to my eye. At least one good Wii game is being advertised.

You go get 'em slugger! You go get 'em...


/Wheelchair

Wii?

What's a Wii?

"As much as I love Nintendo, they are very strongly to blame for this. In their crusade to attract the casual market, they have forgotten the hardcore gamers, and have lost their pride."

I don't think their investors care much about that. Truth is hardcore gamers want the world but are not willing to pay for it. That's not really a good basis for a sustainable business as MS and Sony are now realising as well.

As for the poor sales of 'proper' Wii games, again the hardcore are to blame. They are the intended audience and they don't buy the games because the Wii can't generate enough pixels for their taste.

"If you spend the money to go after the audience on Wii, it's pure risk," the source added.

I thought developing for the Wii was low-risk. Who's lying?

Marketing sells games on every platform, not reviews.

All games released on Nintendo consoles have a golden logo on it called the Nintendo Seal of Quality. That used to mean something a long time ago, but it seems they're handing them out like nightclub leaflets now.

These days it means "This games runs on a Nintendo console. Probably, anyway."

From Wikipedia:

The symbol remained unchanged until 2003 when "of Quality" was removed.

Yep, sounds about right. :P

@Razorus - I concur with what you wrote.

I bought my first Wii game in almost a year this week: Klonoa. While it is no classic (it's a remake of an anicent PSone game) it's decent fun and was cheap. It reminded me of what I missed most about the Wii. Personally I'm over the waving the Wiimote like a loon for a laugh stage and just want more quality games like Zelda: Twilight Princess, Klonoa and Super Mario Galaxy. Sadly such games are few and far between. In fact, I think the Wii has fewer games that appeal to me than the GameCube did. It makes me sad that as I love or rather *did* love Nintendo's own games before they released casual crap like Wii Fit and Wii Music.

>"just like reviews don't matter for Will Smith movies"

AWW HELL N......
Sorry, but the will smith bashing really is getting old now. They guy's a fantastic actor and has made some great movies (his portrayal of Ali, in the rubbish Ali is still ranked as one of the bests ever).

As for this article and comments? Only fools will try and argue with it imo.

Hey, was that a dig at Will Smith movies?

Fun fact: The Wii has more high quality exclusive games (and exclusive versions) than either of the HD machines.

It's true.

It's not the games that's the problem, it's the image of the machine - most consumers don't see it as a games console at all.

Their loss - I play mine at least as much as my 360 and far more than my PS3.

Although, it really is surprising that it's not a gold mine as many sites (EG included) claimed thw wii to be; minimum cost, maximum profit.

It seems like, other than ninty, it's minimum costs, minimum reward; moderate costs minimum reward; maximum costs, still minimum reward.

"Fun fact: The Wii has more high quality exclusive games (and exclusive versions) than either of the HD machines. "

Hee hee...

"Their loss - I play mine at least as much as my 360 and far more than my PS3. "

Why? Do you have learning difficulties?

"Fun fact: The Wii has more high quality exclusive games (and exclusive versions) than either of the HD machines.

It's true.

It's not the games that's the problem, it's the image of the machine - most consumers don't see it as a games console at all.

Their loss - I play mine at least as much as my 360 and far more than my PS3. "

I'll have what you're smoking mate.

@Les

"Truth is hardcore gamers want the world but are not willing to pay for it."

Untrue. I consider myself to be a gamers gamer and more often then not pay the extra for the limited or collectors editions of games I buy but they are games I know I will get a lot out of, ie proper games on the HD consoles, not waggle casual crap on Wii. The reason I wouldnt be willing to pay for something on the Wii is because I know that nearly all the games on that console would bore me after an hour or so, and so, imo, arent worth the asking price. Ive played many of the top selling Wii titles at mates houses and while for half an hours mess around they're ok, thats as far as they would hold my interest and thats why I wouldnt be willing to pay for it!

Fun fact: The word 'Wii' has unique properties as a message-board moron magnet.

Grow up boys, it's about time no?

"So true, unfortunately. I feel like crying when I see rare good games on the Wii not doing well"

perspective sale---------------------------->

"Although, it really is surprising that it's not a gold mine as many sites (EG included) claimed thw wii to be; minimum cost, maximum profit."

It is a goldmine for Nintendo as we all know. 3rd party publishers have had a hard time cashing in on it though and TBH I think they're a bit too quick to lay of the blame. The Wii is different and it took them too long to appreciate that. First they thought that just putting shovelware on it would work but it didn't. Then, as Wii's success continued, they approached it like the consoles of old: creating games that the critics would like with the expectation that high review scores are high sales. The Wii however, has it's own public and requires it's own market approach. Just repeating what you've always done won't work.

"The Wii is different and it took them too long to appreciate that."

Misspelled "Shit" there.

"First they thought that just putting shovelware on it would work but it didn't."

Ignoring massive sales of Jenna Whoever Fitness and Carnival Games there.

"But not everyone has the luxury of bottomless banks. 2D Boy, developer of World of Goo, explains that from an indie perspective, Metacritic scores matter "a lot"."

The problem for Indie developers on the Wii is that the audience that they want to reach doesn't own a Wii as they are obsessed with gameplay and graphics. Or in most cases just graphics.

Hardcore gamers are a niche but expect the gaming equivalent of the gaming equivalent of the Hollywood blockbuster tailored to their tastes. And those that do appreciate different gameplay (the gaming equivalent of the art house movie) still want it to have the Hollywood blockbuster production budget.

Third party games just dont sell on the wii.

.. And that's REALLY nothing to do with 99% of 3rd party games on the wii being shite... Honest...

>Or in most cases just graphics.


Oh.. dear... you sad sad sad sad child.

"Marketing rules Wii, not quality"

As has always been the most prevalent case in the game industry.

Badly positioned software shouldn't sit in a corner complaining. They should take notice and do better next time. Okami didn't do well on PS2, so it would need some major shift in marketing or image to do well on the Wii.

Carnival Games was perfectly positioned, referencing the funfairs everyone liked as a child, with concepts that were graspable immediately. EA Active Fitness or what-it's-called too, great positioning, the "red Wii Fit-clone" that has those stretch bands to differentiate it. It's not even clever, it's just working.

How are people going to appreciate the concept of Boom Blox within the three seconds they look at the box in the shop, really? Anthropomorphized blocks, you say? I mean, really? That's your USP?

No, I'm not going to feel bad that most game studios "do it wrong". That's their problem, not mine, and certainly not the Wii's.

"All games released on Nintendo consoles have a golden logo on it called the Nintendo Seal of Quality. That used to mean something a long time ago"

Did it? I've played some really, really craptacular games on the NES, so I'm not so sure if that was just another marketing trick from Nintendo, to be honest. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing the seal meant was that the game had been approved as stable and bug-free so that only "proper" software got released (as opposed to on the Atari of the time).

I do wish some of you guys who keep spouting the word "hardcore" in relation to the wii not being - would actually explain to me what "hardcore" is. Because to me:

Halo 3 : mainstream
gta 4 : mainstream
mario galaxy : hardcore

No mechanism for downloadable demos doesn't exactly help though. Crackdown and Bioshock on the 360 did amazingly well simply through the buzz generated from excellent demos. Without even basic next-gen infrastructure like demos,

"a high profile member of an industry-leading developer "

Hmm. So who is this developer then? I mean the source really should be expained a bit more..as a if it's a dev who only makes 360/PS3/PC games...then they are hardly an unbiased and credible source are they?

The hardcore-mainstream dichotomy is largely useless if you ask me.

"hardly an unbiased and credible source are they"

No source is ever "unbiased".

@oerhört: Well said +1

Anyone still thinking the "Seal of quality" meant something - go watch avgn on gametrailers.

And i'm SURE (itchy chin) that hte ps2 never had shit games which sold well.

The fact of the matter is with the wii - is that 3rd parties keep making shit for it, and when they make something reasonable they dont market it, and THEN they blame that it didnt sell on the machine - rather than their lacklusture efforts... Much to the amusement of the 360 fanboys that hang around threads like these.

@ Smelly

The definition has changed the more mainstrem video games have become.

Hardcore used to pertain to the unadulterated form of the medium - hardcore fans were the ones who'd beat Ikaruga not taking a hit, hardcore games were the ones that challenged the player on ever level.

Now hardcore is used in a mixture of the meanings for 'fanatic' (when referring to people) and 'Explicit' (when referring to games).

A baby seal is killed every time someone list Okami as proof of third-party games not selling on the Wii.

And this is exactly what I've been saying for ages now (just check my post history when it comes to nintendo dev stuff). It's gamecube 101 all over again. 3rd parties can't make a dime on the blasted thing so sooner rather than later, they will desert the platform in droves. Then it's down to just Nintendo software and once that happens, the platform will go the way of the gamecube and simply stagnate.

Nintendo don't release new titles frequently enough to fill a release calendar so people will simply forget they have the thing in the first place and move on to other stuff. Nintendo will then release their next console, which I have very little doubt is already wiaitng in the wings.

"A baby seal is killed every time someone list Okami as proof of third-party games not selling on the Wii"

Ok, how about Ico then? Or Amplitude? Rez too? I don't think Shadow of the Colossus did that well either.

It's always the same. The truly good games often seem to fail. What this analyst is saying applies to all consoles over the last 10 years.

@smelly

"Halo 3 : mainstream
gta 4 : mainstream
mario galaxy : hardcore"

I'm not sure how you came up with that definition, or just how narrow a bracket you consider mainstream to be. Ask anybody in the street if they have heard of Mario, and then compare the numbers for the same question about Halo and GTA.

Regardless, compared to Wii Sports and Braintraining, all three are hardcore.

"Oh.. dear... you sad sad sad sad child."

?!

"While there are many Wii owners who are hardcore and who care very much about scores"

You can't be playing that much if the Wii is your first choice console.

Yes I didn't quite see why the need for the sad child thing either. I'm guessing a bit of mis-reading of postage.

That's what you get with such a large percentage of casual players.
Core players complaining about this should blame the other core players really,
if enough of them had bought the GameCube then Nintendo wouldn't need this new direction.

Still this article is a bit unfair, most of the titles mentioned deserved bad sales imo:
"There are notable examples of Wii games reviewing well but falling on deaf wallets - even Nintendo titles. Punch-Out!! still hasn't broken into the UK All-Formats top 40, and MadWorld, Okami and Boom Blox all quickly sunk without trace."

MadWorld: lots of reviews criticised this game. It looks old too
Okami: a port of an old PS2 game released at full price while the PS2 game was many times cheaper
Boom Blox: a great game but it looks unappealing

I don't get the bad sales for Punch-Out although for me the lack of online play is a reason not to buy it

Punch-Out is fan service. I don't think Nintendo expected that one to sell millions.

The problem for third parties with the Wii is coming up with decent games for the system is not a simple task. Even though Nintendo have most their games in the Wii's top sellers they also have a few games that have done extremely poor too so even they don't succeed all the time.
This sums Miyamoto's comment on how Nintendo have five years experience compared to MS and Sony. Yes they both have created great motion controls but is there great games out there being created for it with motion controls being new to them? He's pointing out Nintendo already know how to please the gaming world as the charts have shown us the past two years!

@penhalion

"It's gamecube 101 all over again. 3rd parties can't make a dime on the blasted thing so sooner rather than later, they will desert the platform in droves. Then it's down to just Nintendo software and once that happens, the platform will go the way of the gamecube and simply stagnate."

Agree completely, as also happened with the N64.

Third-party games don't sell on Wii for three reasons:

1/ Titles aimed at the casual market are generally knock-offs of Wii Sports, which casual players don't want because they already have Wii Sports, and hardcore players don't want because they simply lack the hidden depths of Wii Sports- the low review scores most minigame compilations have isn't "just" due to hardcore sneering/elitism, and due to them being diluted imitations of something else. Casual gamers don't want "simple". They want "accessible".

Case in point: Guitar Hero is one of the better selling third-party titles on Wii. Why? Because casual gamers recognise the music and the guitar controller, can play it with their friends and can finish it on easy, while the hardcore get leaderboards and downloadable content and nigh-impossible Dragonforce songs.

2/ Nintendo are very good at cornering markets quicker than people can do anything about it, and this makes their games more successful, making the bar for success appear much higher than it is. Between launch and the appearance of its first proper rival, EA Sports Active, Wii Fit has moved just shy of 20 million units. As such, a lot of people are looking at that number and wondering why they aren't seeng similar success.

Here's the thing: If EA were a bit more on the ball and had Active out sooner, Wii Fit probably wouldn't be at the level of success it is, while it still would be one of the biggest-selling games ever, it would at least be in a much more attainable position.

3/ Titles aimed at the core market tend to be late ports of other formats' titles, with tacked-on motion control gimmickry. By the time most developers get their collective arses in gear and release it on Wii, it's a while down the road and we've all bought it on PS3 or 360 and aren't really in the market for buying the same game again with waggle.

This is, in fact, the same mistake developers made with the GameCube. Developers who released GC games day-and-date with their PS2 and xBox coutnerparts saw reasonable GC sales. Everyone who waited six months to bring out a 'cube port failed. Guitar Hero and Call Of Duty titles have seen Wii success for this very reason.

It isn't Nintendo's fault that third parties don't move units on Wii. It's third parties' own fault.

3rd party games do sell well on the Wii..they just happen to be casual for the most part (but frankly that's what most devs are releasing)

More 3rd party software was sold on the Wii in 08 than any other platform...unfortunately 3rd parties have flooded the market with so much software that the quality stuff is drowned out on the shelves. They all need to be more focused.

I would love to see Nintendo putting a halt to some 3rd party shovelware releases..but ironically doing that back in the NES days is what caused many of the problems with 3rd parties in the first place.