Manhunt 2 OK for Holland

By Robert Purchese Published 30 August, 2007

Lets adults make own choice.

Rockstar's controversial Manhunt 2 has been given the go ahead for release in Holland.

The Dutch Ministry refused to get in its way, stating to Parliament that would break the regional law which considers adults capable of making their own decisions.

It is still illegal for youngsters under 16 to buy it, though - they have to rely on responsible parenting and advice from the games industry until they reach adulthood.

The discussion ended with Justice Minister Hirsch Ballin calling for a unified EU ratings system, and revealing that the ministry was looking into new laws to protect younger audiences.

It follows news that Manhunt 2 had been given the thumbs-up in the US, awarded a Mature rating thanks to a re-submitted version of the game by Rockstar.

Manhunt 2 was effectively banned here after the BBFC ruled it unfit for sale. Rockstar has since pleaded its case, but the outcome remained the same.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (86) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Santino #1 5 years ago

    wait so the R* appeal to the BBFC failed? did i miss something?

  • sickpuppysoftware #2 5 years ago

    "regional law which considers adults capable of making their own decisions"
    It'll never catch on.

    edit - tagee no workee?
    Edited by sickpuppysoftware at 30/08/07 @ 16:57

  • wayn3h #3 5 years ago

    Nice to see that common sense still prevails in some corners of the globe.

  • FooAtari #4 5 years ago

    It will be out her soon enough...

    Still be pish though ;)

  • RexRunti #5 5 years ago

    If they've changed the game then it should be entitled to re-submission to the BBFC.

  • rhinoxious #6 5 years ago

    So I'm guessing that we'll be able to import a dutch copy now, and probably with english dialogue too.

  • Nova5lag #7 5 years ago

    Wow... so if the BBFC ban stands some export websites in holland (who will likely get the UK language version) will make a mint from shipping to the UK!

    Amazing.

  • EmiliasHorse #8 5 years ago

    Thing I don't understand is why it was never made for the Next Gen machines.

  • El_MUERkO #9 5 years ago

    MY GOD ALL MIGHTY!!! HOLLAND IS BUT A FERRY RIDE FROM OUR UNPROTECTED BORDERS!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!

  • Mageme #10 5 years ago

    The problem with common sense is that it's not that common.

  • strange_powers #11 5 years ago

    Emilia'sHorse said:
    "Thing I don't understand is why it was never made for the Next Gen machines."

    O hai, can you open this can of worms for me?
    Edited by strange_powers at 30/08/07 @ 17:09

  • Machetazo #12 5 years ago

    Santino wrote: "wait so the R* appeal to the BBFC failed? did i miss something?"

    If you did, so did I, and more worryingly, so did EG. :(

  • Xerx3s #13 5 years ago

    Justice Minister Hirsch Ballin is a pompous arrogant bastard who would like to turn this country into a police state if it was up to him. Someone has to stop arrogant twits like him. He has been playing at a total ban of any violent game for anyone on a European scale.
    And it's not to the parliament. The questions where formed by left wing extremist church parties under the claim of protecting children and society. Oddly enough letting children get mutilated due to their parents denying polio treatment is oke by them.

  • yupyup #14 5 years ago

    ...And Barretts?!?!?

  • robg #15 5 years ago

    Love the unbiased wording of this article :)

    Regardless of whether or not Manhunt 2 should be released or not, children, this is not about "adults making their own minds up"; it's not about being "rational"; it's not about "common sense".

    All of those things still apply to a system where (rightly) some things are allowed and some things are not. Manhunt 2 has simply shifted from the latter to the former, and there will still be things that reside in the latter whilst remaining rationally so. Keep the argument where it belongs; this silly name-calling belongs in a pseudo-intellectual rant, not here.

    It is obviously the province of the younger generation (such as myself, at a grand young 25) to insult the decisions of others, as we haven't had the experience to acknowledge that anyone else could possibly know better than us (hence the "adults decide for themselves" fallacy; we tend to forget that one can only correctly decide for oneself whether or not one should experience something after one has experienced it - by then it is too late).

    Anyway I'm not particularly for or against the game's release, if they reckon it's ok then fair play. I still won't buy it.

  • Ravenboy #16 5 years ago

    This is good news for you British people, since both the Dutch and Belgian versions of the game are normally in English (even the manual can be english, no one bothers with translating the damn things lately) so rub your legal copy in the face of the BBFC, with my compliments ;)

  • doomboom #17 5 years ago

    So is the resubmitted version getting released in Holland or the original, unedited version?

  • Orange #18 5 years ago

    Of course it's about adults making their own minds up. The BBFC are in no place to determine whether something is acceptable for me or not. Only I can (and should) make that decision.

    One should decide for one's own self if one should be playing one game or not. One one one one eleven.

  • Eighthours #19 5 years ago

    Release it in Holland, import.

  • Solty #20 5 years ago

    Would be nice to know if Sony and Nintendo had anything to say about the case. If I remember correctly, none of them were to keen on having an AO rated game released on their consoles... And I can't really imagine Rockstar releasing a Holland-only, unrated, unofficial version. Unless the BBFC lets Manhunt 2 through, I doubt we will ever see it getting a PAL release.

  • Dr.Gash #21 5 years ago

    Man, I can't wait to not play this game when it gets the go ahead from the BBFC. Viva la resistance!

  • Totoriko #22 5 years ago

    Holland = PAL, no?

  • Skeletor #23 5 years ago

    @Solty
    Manhunt 2 is not AO in Europe! It's PEGI 18 although not listed in their online database yet.

    It will come with English audio of course and will be compatible with any PAL-Wii.

  • MrE26 #24 5 years ago

    @Solty
    The no-AO titles rule is only for Sony/Nintendo in the US. An uncut version could still be released in Europe. This was the case with Fahrenheit recently. The ESRB originally gave it an AO rating & it was censored to get an M in America, while the EU version was released fully uncut. Hopefully the same thing will happen with Manhunt 2, i just wanna see what all the fuss is about.

  • RexRunti #25 5 years ago

    It's not AO in america anymore they made some changes and now it's M (for mature) I don't think the BBFC have seen this version yet. I had a look at recently rated games which goes back to the begining of August and didn't see anything. (Incidently if anyone looks the reason Halo 3 is 15 and Halo 3 - Legendary is 12 is because the "Halo 3 - Legendary" only refers to the extra disc you get as the game itself is 15 the boxset will be 15)

  • killyourtv #26 5 years ago

    anyone know any dutch websites that sell games

  • Pablo2k5 #27 5 years ago

    Quote from article... "they have to rely on responsible parenting and advice from the games industry until they reach adulthood."

    No chance of that over here then. "responsible parenting" is a dirty in the UK.

  • Arcadiian #28 5 years ago

    An EU-wide ratings system would be great, aslong as no one from Germany is heading it.

    On a separate note, why do people call it "Holland" ? It's about 40% of the population of the Netherlands. It's the same as people calling the UK "England".

  • doragor #29 5 years ago

    @rhinoxious

    most games released in Holland are in English. The manuals and the text on the box are in English and/or Dutch but all the games I've played have exactly the same disc content as the UK I'm sure.

  • n3rdh8r #30 5 years ago

    I love being dutch!!! Thank god we're getting this.. (Now I can sell it you guys with 25 euro profit)

    :)))

  • Ryze #31 5 years ago

    BAM!

    I like when news is tailored for me!

  • Ryze #32 5 years ago

    Jet2.com...

  • ph101 #33 5 years ago

    At least some countries in europe aren't fascist states.

  • _Price_ #34 5 years ago

    Yep, nice to see some sense creeping into the issue.

    It's not as if I even want to play the game. Like the vast majority, I'd rather just have the freedom to choose for myself.

  • RGroenen #35 5 years ago

    The latest information is that Rockstar is still waiting for the result of the case in the UK to release the game. So we can not run to a shop here in The Netherlands and get the game (to sell it for a high price on EBAY ;-))
    Edited by RGroenen at 30/08/07 @ 20:13

  • Xerx3s #36 5 years ago

    robg: I despise games like manhunt. They are about the lowest end of the food chain imo. However, I will not tolerate someone telling me what I can and cannot play. Censorship of the creative industry (be it shit) by a fear/media hype or any other way is ALWAYS wrong and a very, very, very slippery slope that you do not want to stand on.
    In the 80's the hype was against the films and it turned out to be bull. Now it's against games and it will turn out to be bull as well. If you take a good look at the decision making you will see very bad habits from parties such as CU.

  • Xerx3s #37 5 years ago

    Holland = PAL, no?

    Yes, Netherlands = PAL-UK. We get the same stuff as the brits.

    anyone know any dutch websites that sell games

    bol.com
    dixons.nl
    freerecordshop.nl

    Kelkoo.nl has a comprehensive price listing of all products on all sites.

    <a href='http://www.nl.bol.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/nl/-/EUR/BOL_DisplayProductInformation-Start?BOL_OWNER_ID=1004004004987074&Section=GAMES&lgl=1&plid=ZBaR5JsZp6AAAAEU74TJarhD&lgl_BOL_OWNER_ID=1&lgl_Section=1'>Direct link to the ps2 game</a>, they have an option for country selection so I suppose that they ship abroad.
    Edited by Xerx3s at 30/08/07 @ 20:35

  • smelly #38 5 years ago

    "If anyone has been to Amsterdam you would know it's a shit hole with hookers on every corner and school children having to pass by strip joints with naked men having sex with each other in the windows.
    "


    I've been to amsterdam and it was nothing like that. The prositutes are legal and in one set off area of town (as opposed to uk cities where they're all over the streets and hidden away in illegal massage parlors full of illegal immigrant slave workers.

    And school children do not have to walk past that area, they just dont go there.. and no-one has sex in a window.

    So i presume you've never been?
    Edited by smelly at 30/08/07 @ 21:15

  • Mr-Brett #39 5 years ago

    @NickyJoe
    For a second i thought you were serious, then I checked your profile and saw you had a Big Daddy from Bioshock as your profile pic so I think it's safe to assume you like murdering little girls like the rest of us.

  • CheapSheep #40 5 years ago

    I think he might have gone to Paris by mistake.

  • Ryze #41 5 years ago

    What a load of BOLLOCKS, NickyJoe.

  • Ryze #42 5 years ago

    Openly racist towards white Europeans.

    True Brit, you are. Make your country proud.

  • Pulsar_t #43 5 years ago

    MH2 received 88% in this month's Gamesmaster.

    /gets

  • 8bitMofo #44 5 years ago

    God bless the Dutch!

  • Arcadiian #45 5 years ago

    @Ryze.

    Hypocritical to compare 60 million people to NickyJoe after calling him racist, no ?

    I'm British and pro-EU. We're not all raised on tabloid newspapers.

  • WJF #46 5 years ago

    Huzzah!

    Don't want to play it, but yet can't wait for the Daily Mail to choose Manhunt 2 as the cause of all man's woes.

    I'm thinking...ooo...1 week before release over here?

  • Xerx3s #47 5 years ago

    Lol @ everyone falling for nickjoe's very obvious sarcasm. It's sarcasm not pointed in the right direction as the current (and past) dutch government are a bunch of self-righteous moral pricks that would make the tories look like the early 90's labour party.
    Telling everyone what to do and not to do. Not even mentioning their hypocritical 'Christian morals & values' policy or their 'let's do it together' slogan (don't make me puke).

  • Xerx3s #48 5 years ago

    /holds onto Arcadiian

    What? It's not often I see something that rare. ;)

  • Ryze #49 5 years ago

    No m8, I'm not saying he's typical.

    I'm a Brit, also.

  • Ryze #50 5 years ago

    Seems like we need a [sarcasm] tag.
    Edited by Ryze at 30/08/07 @ 22:37

  • Orange #51 5 years ago

    Hooray for Europe.

    The storyline sounds fascinatingly dark, having to escape from a lunatic asylum while being hunted down yourself.

    I'd love to play this with the Wii controls on my big screen TV.

  • Skywise #52 5 years ago

    @Xerx3s: at least the Tories had a charismatic leader in John Major :-)

  • smelly #53 5 years ago

    Hmm

    hang on.. at least english people can now import a pal version to play :-)

  • TheUnionFrag #54 5 years ago

    "Nice to see that common sense still prevails in some corners of the globe."

    Amsterdam is famous for it's incredibly blatant and open marijuana industry. Common sense my arse - they're just all high ;)

  • FaceOmeter #55 5 years ago

    Bioshock

  • indotoonster #56 5 years ago

    +1 to Aspic

  • Daikon #57 5 years ago

    It's not only going to be released in Holland but in the rest of The Netherlands also!

  • smelly #58 5 years ago

    "Amsterdam is famous for it's incredibly blatant and open marijuana industry. Common sense my arse - they're just all high ;)"


    Hmmm...

    England : everyone smokes pot illegally - government sees fuck all.. And the chances are you're only smoking 30% pot, 70% crap which has been mixed in

    Amsterdam : everyone smokes 100% pot, but the government gets a slice of the taxes..


    Tell me which one has the most common sense again?

  • Kryon #59 5 years ago

    Smelly is teh pot head, Wiilol :D

  • mazzl #60 5 years ago

    Holland is only a province in The Netherlands... so please fix that,
    and hirsh ballin is an aswhole who uses this to take the oppertunity to change the law and make it possible for him to ban games like this.
    he stated that beceause of the law he could not ban the game, but he would like to have done so... so now he will try to get it banned threu europian laws.. so don't be so happy about this.

  • Zuiyo #61 5 years ago

    Original text (wrong):
    "If anyone has been to Amsterdam you would know it's a shit hole with hookers on every corner and school children having to pass by strip joints with naked men having sex with each other in the windows."

    Edited version (correct):
    "If anyone has been to Amsterdam you would know it's a paradise on earth with hookers on every corner and school children getting to pass by strip joints with naked men having sex with each other in the windows."

    Thanks.

    Edit: punctuation n shit.
    Edited by Zuiyo at 31/08/07 @ 08:28

  • Zuiyo #62 5 years ago

    +1 to Smelly about the weed situation.

  • Xerx3s #63 5 years ago

    Amsterdam is famous for it's incredibly blatant and open marijuana industry. Common sense my arse - they're just all high ;)

    Yes, it's also well known that we all walk on wooden shoes. Come on, who keeps feeding the foreigners that bullshit? Did you know that if YOU go to a coffieshop, YOU will be arrested on illegal drug use? And that your trial would be according to your own country's laws?
    Do you believe everything people tell you? Did it ever occur to you that people tell you this nonsense because you like to hear it?

  • AcidSnake #64 5 years ago

    Holland is only a province in The Netherlands

    What are you on about?

  • Bumhug360 #65 5 years ago

    What the article fails to mention though is Rockstar currently dont have any plans to release the game in Europe and probably wont bother if its only one country allowing its sale. Plus it still has to be given the nod to be released from Sony and Nintendo with the latter very unlikely to grant a european release if a few countries have it on the ban list due to the huge amount of bad publicity that would be linked to them. Still a long way to go before it hits the european market

  • asharkman #66 5 years ago

    Is this coming out for the 360?

  • mazzl #67 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake
    Noord-Holland, and Zuid-Holland, are provinces of the country The Netherlands,
    it offends the rest of The Netherlands that the province where Amsterdam is located, its considered the whole of the country.

    that's just my oppinion, i'm from Eindhoven (PSV), Noord-Brabant, The Netherlands

  • AcidSnake #68 5 years ago

    Oh come on, Holland is the whole country...The Netherlands comes from the old times when it was still "the kingdom of the low lands"...
    Holland is a technically correct term for the whole country...
    With ofcourse north-holland and south-holland being 2 provinces...

    That is how I studied it...

  • TDS #69 5 years ago

    I 'heart' Bioshock.

  • Skeletor #70 5 years ago

    @Bumhug360
    Only one country? Not really, Manhunt 2 is until now only banned in the UK and Ireland. A ban in Germany and Switzerland is very likely but there the product has to be released first, no release = no ban. A ban before a public release (like in the UK) is considered unconstitutional in Germany. Austria, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Spain, France - there shouldn't be any problems in any of those countries!
    Edited by Skeletor at 31/08/07 @ 12:26

  • spongebob #71 5 years ago

    Well, it's import time for Wii owners :)

  • smoison #72 5 years ago

    Bumhug360 took his entire comment out of his ass.

    True story.

  • Strac #73 5 years ago

    AcidSnake: it actually still is the Kingdom of the Netherlands (used to be a republic until Napoleon messed that up ;)
    Holland used to be the most powerful province in the golden age, which is why it's so famous. Strangely enough people forgot about Zeeland even in New Zealand which is nicknamed after it :p

  • AcidSnake #74 5 years ago

    @Strac:
    Don't get me started, how the Dutch still tolerate the royal family is beyond me...
    Why don't they get kicked out of power/money for once?...

    What has Zeeland got to do with anything?
    They owned New York!...
    Whatever, one of the most progressive countries, just that royal family thing pisses me off, and the current rightwing government tendencies...

  • Bumhug360 #75 5 years ago

    @smoison, £10 says you will still be bitching about lack of manhunt 2 release in europe at christmas

  • smelly #76 5 years ago

    "What the article fails to mention though is Rockstar currently dont have any plans to release the game in Europe and probably wont bother if its only one country allowing its sale"


    They might do.. after all.. a release in holland means that millions of other europeans can now illegally import it.

    it'd sell shit loads if you ask me (prolly more than it'd sell in the shops)

  • Skeletor #77 5 years ago

    @smelly

    I'm pretty sure importing into UK (or Germany, France whatever...) is completely legal. Selling in UK is not. That's why bans like this one will most likely backfire.

  • smelly #78 5 years ago

    I think you'll find that the customs officer will have something to say about that. Importing something which is banned in the uk is illegal (same goes if you try to import ultra hard core movies or pot from amsterdam).

    Unlike the US where it didnt get banned, it originally just got an A rating (effectively making it banned). The uk has banned it, making it illegal in your country and so you wouldnt be able to legally import it any more than you can legally import pron or smokes.

    That said, like pron and i doubt it'll stop people from trying (and most likely succeeding).


  • Skeletor #79 5 years ago

    "I think you'll find that the customs officer will have something to say about that. Importing something which is banned in the uk is illegal (same goes if you try to import ultra hard core movies or pot from amsterdam). "

    Hmmm, I don't live in the UK but how is that supposed to work, I mean legally. Nobody outside of the BBFC (and maybe a couple of journalists) has ever seen the game in action. How is a customs officer supposed to recognize that this is the version the BBFC banned? Or is the title alone enough to confiscate it? Is a banned videogame in the UK really on the same level as illegal porn and weed? If this is the case, then it's one hell of a fucked up system. Not even Germany is that restrictive when it comes to importing media! I'm pretty sure people in the UK are importing (for private consumption!) uncut versions of films that got butchered by the BBFC all the time...without any customs officers telling them that it's illegal.

  • smelly #80 5 years ago

    "Is a banned videogame in the UK really on the same level as illegal porn and weed?"


    Not the same as weed no - just used that as an example as it's amsterdam :-)

    But the same as porn yes. Illegal Porn is illegal as it's been refused a bbfc classification and therefor banned.. So it's the exact same thing.

    "Not sure that the game is banned in the UK i.e. that possession of it is illegal"


    Possession probably isnt illegal. Importing it would be illegal though - same as importing anything else banned by the bbfc.


    BUT in exactly the same way as pron, the customs officer would have to open the package and see/know it's illegal in order to confsciate it. You wont be put in jail or owt, you'll just not be allowed to get it.

    I'd imagine around the time of a holland release the customs officials will be on the look out for dvd cases coming from holland from games shops... But after that they'll probably turn a blind eye unless you were really unlucky (same as porn)

    .. mind you, customs officers tend to be a bit more vibrant about checking out dvd cases from amsterdam to "confiscate" as it's a bit obvious as to what they probably are.. They probably "confiscate" them and take them home to their wives.. :-)

    Edited by smelly at 31/08/07 @ 19:49

  • smelly #81 5 years ago

    gawd knows.

    I thought i understood it.. I dont now.


    From the above, it sounds like it's perfectly legal to import i then.

  • Skeletor #82 5 years ago

    @Aspic

    The more I read about it the more it seems that the BBFC refused an 18 rating and therefore MH2 cannot be published in its uncut form on the UK market. For the industry this is a ban, for the usual citizen it's not because it's not a true ban. It's not banned by law like drugs or illegal porn clearly are and it wasn't banned by any justice in a court of law. The game itself is not banned, the publication on UK market is! Whether the content of MH2 breaches UK obscenity laws is probably a matter of interpretation but I highly doubt that this would be the job of a customs officer.

  • Lunaticorc #83 5 years ago

    Wait wait wait. Some porn is illegal in UK? Why?

  • robg #84 5 years ago

    @Aspic: That comparison is brilliant! If I'd done any name-calling. Don't edit out of context just because you have pretensions towards being able to make a point.

    @Xerx3s: Fair point; I just think it's worth considering that that point of view is one in which if there is a problem (and there is no decent evidence for this, I know) then the damage will have been done. And to be honest it was really just all the unfounded language of intellectual superiority that got up my nose a bit :)

  • SEVQA #85 5 years ago

    “I’m going to illegally import Manhunt 2 on all formats along with some snuf porn of Jack Thompson getting raped and killed whilst smoking a big fat dooby during the whole process”.

    SEVQA (AKA) D.Cameron.

  • xbox360now #86 5 years ago

    Yes I live in The Netherlands and i'm not under the 16. THe perfect combination for a game of manhunt 2