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Manhunt 2 Article

Wii PlayStation 2 PSP Article by Stephen Daultrey

13 July, 2007

Page 1 of 2. Page 2 ->

Last week's routine trawl of the DVD trade-in dug up a £2.50 copy of Rob Zombie's horror film debut House Of 1000 Corpses. Like its demented follow-up The Devil's Rejects, it was a crass lesson in subversive terror, spooning out the splatter in big, thick globs. Limb amputation, bloody scalping and wide-awake brain surgery, all orchestrated on whiter-than-white victims by deranged, dribbling killers, whose mockery of classic genre convention saw them not only kick shit in such hideous fashion, but get away with the whole damn thing too. Another day in the age of the sado-horror flick.

Now let's take a small jaunt back to the previous week, perched on the tip of a black, leather sofa, as I was, in Rockstar's cosy office in London's billionaire playground of Chelsea. Up ahead, flashing on a giant screen, gentle-looking amnesiac Daniel Lamb (a twisted joke, surely?) was smashing in some stranger's head (presumably, a bad person) with a heavy slab from a toilet system while taking a pee.

Crrraacckkk (or it could've been more of a crrrrunnnchhh - either way, there were some pretty gratifying sound effects going on there that suggested this wasn't some lazy-arsed robbing of the BBC sound library).

Soon I was being treated to some tastier, more stylised set pieces as villains were multi-punctured in iron maidens and winched to the ceiling on giant, two-pronged hooks. And blood, conspiring with those great schlocky sound effects, was rampant in full glorious flow.

Oh sorry, let me introduce you to the world of Manhunt 2 by the way...

Just two days prior to my visit, the BBFC had famously denied Rockstar's 'stalk 'n slash' sequel an age rating, condemning it for "unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone". This, the normally liberating BBFC, who were passing torture scenes on innocent victims in movieland, and had yet to viciously waggle a finger at a video game since Carmageddon in the late '90s. It all seemed to point to one resounding fact - that Rockstar must surely have cocked up somewhere on a spectacularly grand scale.

'Manhunt 2' Screenshot car

However, if it's the grimace-provoking gore and relentless sadism that has ruffled the BBFC, then consider that the impact of watching the likes of The Devil's Rejects and Hostel were (for me personally, at least) far more powerful and repellent than the executions in Manhunt 2. Call it a photo-realism thing, or the fact that such accounts were being perpetrated on emotionally more developed and humanistic characters (both very significant factors), but while I was disturbed by the brutal raping of The Hills Have Eyes remake, and the spine severing of Wolf Creek, I don't ever recall wincing at Manhunt 2's violence once. And let's not forget who our victims supposedly are in Manhunt 2, either.

Inevitably the BBFC's concerns crawl back to that complex, age-old passivity versus interactivity argument. In movies, you're the voyeur, in the former, you're the player. Manhunt 2's gameplay focus (and appeal) lies upon the stalking and killing of villains, where not only are you required to carry out such atrocities, you're encouraged to do it in such a skilful manner that comes the reward of extra horrific deaths. Not nice on paper, granted, but perhaps little different to any gore-hungry movie fan seeking out the 'Uncut Version' of their favourite flick on DVD. But as the BBFC stresses, there's barely any gameplay alternatives in Manhunt 2 outside of the sadistic slaying, making such entertainment even more morally unnerving.

'Manhunt 2' Screenshot house

Okay, fair enough, point taken, but then again, perhaps unsuspectingly, the BBFC has also just described the gameplay of the original Manhunt, which incidentally passed through the radar with an 18 certificate in 2004, and the two games, in my opinion, play almost identically. And what's the horror genre for if not for shocking?

Time to look at the sequel in more detail, methinks...

First up, the new Wii control has come under severe scrutiny, critics claiming it brings a dangerous level of interactivity to your killing spree. Suddenly, you're not pressing buttons, you're 'slashing away like a total nutjob'. Well, call me 'cackhanded' with the old motion sensor control, but I wouldn't exactly describe my gaming actions as being akin to the onscreen mutilating. In fact, so concentrating was I on repeating the onscreen prompts, that the fact that I was committing heinous murder, for me, seemed rather inconsequential.

Indeed, as has been highlighted in arguments elsewhere, if Rockstar really wanted to capture the sensation of slaughter, it would surely have integrated free-roaming, improvised control of the motion-controller (as in Wii Sports), not the mini-game 'repeat the actions' system.

'Manhunt 2' Screenshot 1

Elsewhere, and back to the issue of 'gore', and indeed Manhunt 2 has amped up the splatter with the introduction of its new 'environmental kills'. No need to rely on shards of glass to do your dirty work, people, you can pack your foes off into whirring grinders, or drill holes in their faces while they're skewered down into dentistry chairs. Of course, this has been done all before in 2004 with The Punisher. If my memory serves, I was part of a 20-man journalist crew at a Chicago showcase who 'amused' by scenes involving car compactors, piranha tanks, laser cutters and sausage mincing machines. The Punisher escaped (albeit, with some hint of warning) with the all-important 18 certificate - to reasonable acclaim, and the overall group press reaction to such over-the-top, inventive, excessive comic-book violence was one of blackly comic chuckles. The Devil's Rejects movie screening two years later, on the other hand, provoked entirely different reactions among its journalistic audience, some seeming genuinely upset at the levels of sadism, some of which was misogynist, being carried out against its incredibly innocent protagonists.

Please feel free to cite photo-realism, emotional intensity, profundity, characterisation, mood, tone, and the victims of such horror, for the differences in response.

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Comments: 1-50 of 71 in total | next 50 »

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Martin
13/07/07 @ 08:00
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Fan this sick bilth!
Totoriko
13/07/07 @ 08:03
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/pre orders

errr
Xinch
13/07/07 @ 08:07
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I wouldn't be that interested in this game.
Pachinko
13/07/07 @ 08:10
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How is it fantastic if there's so many problems with it?
SeesThroughAll
13/07/07 @ 08:14
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So, controversy aside, the game itself actually is lacking?
RazorObsession
13/07/07 @ 08:16
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I NEED THIS GAME.

videogames let me get my worst fantasies out of my system, stop it from getting backed up and exploding one day so that i find myself in a clock tower with a high powered rifle.

if they dont release this game uncut soon, i might just have to start killing people.

incidentally what would jack thompsons stance be on a videogame killer that went nuts because he DIDN'T play a violent rockstar game?
afghan_jones
13/07/07 @ 08:18
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Good article but to be honest, getting a bit bored of the manhunt 2 controversy now. It's like, sooooo two weeks ago.

The game itself sounds alright though. No more brutal than the first really. Plus theres a Hitman level where you garotte your way around an S&M club. But then there are some non-lethal options there I suppose.

The Wii controller being based around onscreen prompts takes away from the whole 'murder sim' argument. Whenever I'm playing a game with QTE's I always miss the cool stuff cause im concentrating on what buttons to press.

Ryze
13/07/07 @ 08:20
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Ban thi...

Oh wait?!

No europe release?

I'll be in Holland in Sept...
SomaticSense
13/07/07 @ 08:20
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IMO, House of 1000 Corpses was nowhere near as bad content-wise as Devils Rejects. I could watch the former perfectly fine, but couldn't stomach the latter.

Back to the point anyway...
Duds2k
13/07/07 @ 08:23
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Equally though, the answer is simply to make violating the 18 certificate more of a criminal offence (for instance removing the loophole that makes it perfectly legal for a parent to buy the game for a kid) and not to stop the rest of us experiencing any kind of legally created media we damned well like.

"Good article but to be honest, getting a bit bored of the manhunt 2 controversy now. It's like, sooooo two weeks ago."

Then you're being very naive. The Daily Mail brigade, fresh from pressuring the BBFC into this one, are after GTA4, since we just admitted that violent videogames cause real crime (otherwise why did we ban this one). Then they'll be after every game with any kind of illegal activity in.

And can you think of one of your favourite games that doesn't? I can't.
smoothpete
13/07/07 @ 08:29
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To be honest I wish the BBFC wouldn't pass shit like Hostel and The Devil's Rejects, they make me physically sick and I worry about people who enjoy them. In the context of this game, good, I'm glad they've not let it through. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.
DanWhitehead
13/07/07 @ 08:30
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Plus theres a Hitman level where you garotte your way around an S&M club.

Not really. There's a level in an S&M club, but you're certainly not expected to kill everyone inside. You're there to evade detection and kill your target. Who is, of course, EEEEVIL.

With regard to the feature, I think a clue to the BBFC's decision can be found in comments such as:

Call it a photo-realism thing, or the fact that such accounts were being perpetrated on emotionally more developed and humanistic characters (both very significant factors), but while I was disturbed by the brutal raping of The Hills Have Eyes remake, and the spine severing of Wolf Creek, I don't ever recall wincing at Manhunt 2's violence once.

In fact, so concentrating was I on repeating the onscreen prompts, that the fact that I was committing heinous murder, for me, seemed rather inconsequential.

Similar levels of violence, yet those on the movie screen shock and repel. Those in the game elicit no emotional reaction. I think that's the problem. Not that kids will play these games and become foaming castrationists, but that they'll view disembowelling a stranger and hanging him with his own guts as just another task to be performed to get to the next level. There's a passive effort-reward equation at work there that's rather disturbing.

Dwelling on movies like The Devil's Rejects versus Manhunt 2 is ultimately a bit of a wild goose chase. The reason those movies work, why they horrify and upset (or thrill) us, is because cinema has long since absorbed the ability to deliver subtext and emotional paradox. The Firefly clan of 1000 Corpses and Devil's Rejects are absolute monsters. But then so is the Sheriff pursuing them. It's a very nihlistic film, and Rob Zombie is more than just a dumb gore merchant. Quite simply, these sorts of movies - when they're done well - make you squirm and make you think. They force you to reconcile issues of morality and revenge and violence. That they do this while revelling in those issues is one of the wonderful, complicated joys of exploitation cinema.

Much as we'd like to pretend otherwise, videogames aren't at that narrative level yet. The characters aren't complex enough, the situations are designed for interaction not introspection. I firmly believe that games will reach that level, and when they do we'll have something quite spectacular - but that maturity isn't going to come from diving straight into the extremes of graphic violence and claiming there's artistic merit inherent in the transgression.
Edited 2 times, most recently on 13/07/07 @ 09:34
afghan_jones
13/07/07 @ 08:39
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@Duds2K

The Daily Mail brigade can say whatever they like frankly. Everything ive seen from the BBFC suggests they are very rational and they took the step to ban this game based on content not on media pressure.

Given that the last game they refused a cert to (initially) was carmageddon I doubt we need to worry ourselves that suddenly they will start banning games left and right. Especially GTA which has gone through several iterations unmolested by the censors (in the UK at least) and is unlikely to change its tone to one of 'unremitting bleakness' etc.
Zuiyo
13/07/07 @ 08:39
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San fis thick bilth!
Edited 2 times, most recently on 13/07/07 @ 09:40
zuljin
13/07/07 @ 08:39
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Good article, explains a bit more as to why it got banned.
aldo_14
13/07/07 @ 08:57
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It's worth noting the BBFC itself released a report saying that "“The element of interactivity in games carries some weight when we are considering a video game. We were particularly interested to see that this research suggests that, far from having a potentially negative impact on the reaction of the player, the very fact that they have to interact with the game seems to keep them more firmly rooted in reality"

(Link to report
Edited 1 times, most recently on 13/07/07 @ 09:58
Eighthours
13/07/07 @ 09:00
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That security guard bit sounds hilariously illogical. :)
GordonBennett
13/07/07 @ 09:06
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Dan Whitehead's comment is an interesting one an raises a point often ignored by gamers and the video games industry generally.
A lack of maturity in video games as a medium means that most game stories, narratives and characters are simplistic and underdeveloped. Usually, the result of this is simply an unengaging, threadbare plot riddled with corny clichés and bald space-marines. But, when they tackle subjects as controversial as sadism and psychosis, this lack of sophistication means that the brutality has no point or meaning; making it gratuitous.
squarejawhero
13/07/07 @ 09:06
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Shame EG's been dragged into a rather pointless attempt by Rockstar to gain ground again on the financial loss of an idiotically produced game (sorry, "art"). The article does eventually nail the point though, that without any proper subtext the gore, however artficial, is on the same level of those movies mentioned with the extra addition of interactivity.

... and certainly, to get a clearer view of it, you'd need to see more than three levels. Rockstar clearly have an agenda in this case, to show "it's not as bad as they say" to the gaming press... well, tough - you've already been hoisted on your own petard. Just concentrate on getting the tonality right in the next GTA, please, and move on.
squarejawhero
13/07/07 @ 09:07
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@gordonbennett - nice post, agreed.
Verwandlung
13/07/07 @ 09:07
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I need a new carmageddon .soon........
knocker
13/07/07 @ 09:11
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It would have been interesting to see the reaction if they released the same game, but with a (hackneyed) renegade cop theme going around killing the sort of people the daily mail hate. Introduce some clumsy faux morality I suspect it would be ok to brutally massacre hoodie wearing chavs who ... oh - they're probably the key audience for this game. So that won't work.

Man, this chick's milf.

boneparteofballybay
13/07/07 @ 09:13
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"Why not establish the fact he's a schizophrenic or a madman - distance him from us, the player - find justification in his behaviour." Come again. Why not do a wiki search before you stereotype a mental disorder that causes a great deal of suffering to the individual afflicted and his/ her family and no more to society than any other group. Here's another bright idea, Mr Daultrey. Why not distance the protagonist from oursleves by not playing the game in the first place. Now wouldn't that be clever! Further, we could find "justification in [sic] his behaviour" by casting him as a journalistic hack who makes dangerously stupid and flippant remarks about vulnerable groups and routinely trawls the bargain bins for torture porn. I attack Mr Daultrey and his article because both he and it defile the public space. I could not normally find justification FOR this behaviour as I regard the stupid as a vulnerable group also.
Edited 2 times, most recently on 13/07/07 @ 11:04
Caimbeul
13/07/07 @ 09:18
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I'm glad the BBFC banned the game. It is a pointless and gratuitus. It is the same with the trend of horror movies over the past few years. I genuinly cannot fathom how people can enjoy going to a cinema and watching people get kidnapped, tortured and brutally murdered...especially when that is core of the film. Its akin to snuff and it is sick. Zombies and fantasy horror is a different issue but saw and the likes are simply wrong. Who gets off watching this crap?

Then there is the seperate issue of BBFC's rating. Im 29 (not particularly old) but 10/15 years ago films that are current rated 15 would have been rated 18 due to there content, likewise alot of 12 rated films would have been 15. Its all to do with money and greed and getting a bigger audience in for your film. Its not very often that you see 18 rated films these days compared to days of old and it is because once a film is classified as 18 the movie studios lose a HUGE audience ie: all the teenagers who think its cool to have seen these films.
GordonBennett
13/07/07 @ 09:35
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Wow, a lot of angry people about this morning!
BremXJones
13/07/07 @ 09:44
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Xiphos: You're so angry you're not actually phrasing an argument. You're just shouting unconnected phrases.

Slow down. Take it step by step. Don't make enormous leap of subjects. I'd like to know what you actually mean.

(I suspect I just disagree, but I'd like to know)

KG
Stilicho
13/07/07 @ 09:44
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Xiphos, ffs chill. Take a valium or something. The more you rant the more your point gets lost in the ranting.
zuljin
13/07/07 @ 09:53
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@Caimbeul
I'm not too worried about films turning from an 18 to a 15, my annoyance is with blatant 18 films turning to a 12 (which means in the UK a five year old can go see it).

eg Bourne Supremacy, made especially blurry so it would evade any 18 rating, but in essence, no 12 yr old would come even close to understanding it. In the end, it just seems patronising to me as an adult, because I'd like to see a normal fight scene with the camera not shaking from side to side. Grr. Rant over.

DanWhitehead + GordonBennet
+1
El_MUERkO
13/07/07 @ 09:54
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Well said EG, I really enjoyed Manhunt but I was unsettled by some of the violence, what allowed me to do the things I did as James Earl Cash was the story.

The need to save his family and revenge himself on the director removed much of my unease for the acts of violence I was committing, not that I'm sure it should have, I think I grew up watching to many westerns.

By all accounts Manhunt 2 allows you to torture and kill the innocent and saying "but your character is a nut job so that's ok" doesn't seem enough to justify its release.
Krun
13/07/07 @ 10:11
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There has to be a line and Manhunt 2 crossed it.

Interactive Media where you perform unnecessary sadistic photo realistic killing for no reason = ban.

I'd say fair enough.

I'm happy enough killing aliens and zombies in games. I really don't need or want to kill and torture innocent people.

If you don't think any games should be banned consider these for possible titles of games.


Jihad Boomer Man.

Leisure Suit Kiddie fiddlers Adventures in Bangkok.

Kindergarten Killer.

Celebrity Rapist.

I'm sure you can think up 50 or so more disturbing game ideas that should never be made.

But who knows in 20 years we will probably see far worse. If the trend of more and more violence and less and less censorship continues we can look forward to our future. Plugged into our mind pods and wired to the matrix living out all sorts of psychotic fantasies while the real world burns.

Edited 2 times, most recently on 13/07/07 @ 11:22
afghan_jones
13/07/07 @ 10:22
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Celebrity Rapist sounds ace actually. A stealth adventure, stalk celebrities, then sneak into their homes and rape them.

Create your own custom rapist and assign them signiture rape moves.

Use Co-op mode to tag-team unwitting celebs for bonus points!
WJF
13/07/07 @ 10:24
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8/10
Charroux
13/07/07 @ 10:30
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Personally I have huge problems with the censorship of Manhunt 2 - and virtually all film/game censorship. I don't think that it's right that the BBFC (and by extension the government) should be able to dictate what I watch. Some other European countries don't have *any* film/game censorship (only classification, which I agree with), and you don't see their societies collapsing under the video game-inspired violence that everyone's so afraid of.

@Krun
"I'd say fair enough. I can't see why anyone would want to play something like this anyway."

Heh, that's not exactly a great justification for censorship. I can't see why anyone would want to read the Express or Mail, but... actually hang on a minute :)
Goban
13/07/07 @ 10:31
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Sounds like Rockstar aren't clever enough by half to produce a game that wants to be as controversial as this.
Stilicho
13/07/07 @ 10:42
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"photo realistic killing"

Have you actually looked at the game engine? It's a million miles away from photo realistic.
DanWhitehead
13/07/07 @ 11:04
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Then there is the seperate issue of BBFC's rating. Im 29 (not particularly old) but 10/15 years ago films that are current rated 15 would have been rated 18 due to there content, likewise alot of 12 rated films would have been 15. Its all to do with money and greed and getting a bigger audience in for your film.

Or it could just be that the BBFC finally started to loosen up and realised that not all movie violence is the same. They began to take more notice of context and intent, rather than just ticking boxes and saying "too violent, give it an 18"

As studios have no influence on what rating a film gets - and often complain about this fact - there's no reason to believe that more permissive ratings are a commercial decision. Many old 18 ratings have since been reclassified to 15. The later Elm Street sequels, which were high on goo but low on gore, are now 15 - and quite right too.

Its not very often that you see 18 rated films these days compared to days of old and it is because once a film is classified as 18 the movie studios lose a HUGE audience ie: all the teenagers who think its cool to have seen these films.

That's why most directors are contractually obliged to deliver a movie geared towards a specific rating. Die Hard 4.0 was designed from the start to earn a PG13 (or a 12A/15 in the UK).

The 18 rating is always going to be less common that the more mainstream PG. That's just common sense. If you look at the BBFC's most recent ratings decisions, which are always available and constantly updated on their website, you'll see that they've awarded fifteen theatrical 18 certificates in the last year. Some are for foreign movies, some are for horror. One is for the new Ridley Scott movie with Russell Crowe and Denzel Washington. Another is for the new Kevin Costner film. It's pretty clear that the certificate is finally being used for what it was intended, to distinguish movies with strong adult content rather than a catch-all rating for cheap horror and action movies.
poxymoron
13/07/07 @ 11:22
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Excellent article. Thanks EG!
dog
13/07/07 @ 12:00
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i love splatter movies... i still chuckle to myself when i think of the final 20 minutes of Braindead...

even so it does sound like manhunt 2 does cross the line... and i find the current trend of torture-porn movies to be similarly distateful...

even 80s banned movies like 'i spit on your grave', which i found horrendous to watch, had a reasonable justification for the depravity (gang-raped women revenging herself on her attackers)...

and +1000 points to sofalover for one of the funniest posts, ever....



Shinji [mod]
13/07/07 @ 12:08
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"Personally I have huge problems with the censorship of Manhunt 2 - and virtually all film/game censorship. I don't think that it's right that the BBFC (and by extension the government) should be able to dictate what I watch"

I agree, but only in the sense that I think this sort of control should be exercised voluntarily by media industries instead.

What has happened in the USA, where a voluntary industry body rated the game AO, and Sony and Nintendo stepped in and said they wouldn't release it on their platforms, strikes me as a much healthier situation than having a government body step in and impose a ban.

Of course, if Rockstar seriously believed that this game had genuine artistic and cultural worth, there are tons of avenues open to them to get it out in front of people. There's nothing stopping them from getting critics to play the game and make up their own minds (which they haven't done). There's nothing stopping them from choosing to release the game on an unregulated platform like the PC, perhaps over a download service, so people in general can experience it and make up their own minds. Hell, the game can still be enjoyed in public if they take the right steps - the BFI has shown many "banned" films over the years.

This ban stops them from making a wodge of cash from selling their art to the public at large. That's what they're upset about - not art, commerce.
Dr.Gash
13/07/07 @ 12:45
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Fair treatment for games! Down with Formatism!
BremXJones
13/07/07 @ 12:46
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Shinji, that's a bullshit dichotomy and you know it.

KG
andromeda
13/07/07 @ 13:02
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if they want to ban something they should ban the August Underground Films

Oh, wait, they probably already have.

spongebob
13/07/07 @ 13:20
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DanWhitehead is dead right with his opinion. If contemporary exploitation horror, like the movies of Rob Zombie, or horror-porn, like the movies of Eli Roth, elicit real disgusted reaction in the majority of the crowd, they are still borderline cases of entertainment, that makes you think and evaluate your moral judgement. In other words, they make you witness things you never would like to witness in real life, yet you react to them in a very human fashion.

However, herein lies the problem of Manhunt 2, at least according the testimony of the writer of this EG article:

but while I was disturbed by the brutal raping of The Hills Have Eyes remake, and the spine severing of Wolf Creek, I don't ever recall wincing at Manhunt 2's violence once.

Sure, it could be just that the writer himself has played so many videogames that he doesn't react to the violence in them the way some casual gamer would, but at the same it makes you think that maybe Manhunt 2 doesn't raise enough moral questions or manage to present it's "sick filth" in a way that makes really wince and get disturbed.

There's a place for straight up violent porn and horror porn - even fake snuff films - but it's not in the mainstream entertainment. It's where people who enjoy sadism and masochism wander for a fix. (andromeda above my post mentioned August Underground's material, that's a perfect example of the extreme underground horror cinema phenomena of today). There's nothing wrong with that, per se, since it only means that the people watching this stuff are probably not making the horrible mistake of recreating their ideas of good time in the real life.

However, I'd never want to see fake snuff films or violent porn films become mainstream cinema. One can argue that Eli Roth showed us the extreme end of that, and got slapped in the face for forgetting the film and just showing the "sick filth".

By the way, if anyone wants to see a really good film about "sick filth", rent the hugely underrated Joel Schumacher film, 8MM (starring Nicolas Cage). That film makes you really feel bad inside, in a good way, and think about the wide spectrum of human condition and the possibilities of exploitation it opens up in the wrong hands.
Edited 1 times, most recently on 13/07/07 @ 14:24
Saii
13/07/07 @ 13:34
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I personally could do without the likes of Manhunt since its shallow gameplay and shock-and-awe gives the rest of the videogames industry a bad name. I have no problem with violence and gore but having no proper context or motivation makes the game live up to the "Murder Simulator" accusations of the tabloid press.
DanWhitehead
13/07/07 @ 13:52
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I agree, but only in the sense that I think this sort of control should be exercised voluntarily by media industries instead.

Not sure I understand the value of this distinction. As Rob pointed out in his GI.biz editorial, the effect is the same. I'm not sure how having a game banned by a voluntary panel (presumably including representatives of rival publishers?) would be any less restrictive than having a game banned by a state-funded, yet independent of government, body such as the BBFC.
oreillymj
13/07/07 @ 13:55
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I'm also of the opinion that this sort of rubbish deserves to be banned.

Rockstart pushed their luck too far and it's bitten them in the arse. Hopefully they might start working on games with entertaining gameplay instead of mindless violence.

I don't believe the 18 cert's work as most parent buy whatever it takes to keep their kids happy/out of their faces. I've personally seen a father buying GTA for his son who could not have been more than 10.

If you give me the choice between 100 Manhunt games versus something new and entertaining like LocoRocco, I'll pick LoccoRocco any time. Manhunt 2 being banned is no loss to humanity and certainly not worthy of an article extolling it's virtues.


spongebob
13/07/07 @ 14:10
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I think Rockstar should maybe think of distributing the game themselves, without any certificate. You can do this with movies in the US. It's a completely different ballgame in the Europe, though, where you can't just release something with UNRATED stamped on it.

At any rate, Manhunt 2 might one of the first videogames that really do stir up some valid points about the lenghts violence can go in this medium. It won't end here, but the discussion has been much more reasonable and with warrant than with any of the GTA games in the past.
GordonBennett
13/07/07 @ 15:18
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SpongeBob, It doesn't matter who distributes it if Sony and Nintendo won't licence it for their systems.
smoothpete
13/07/07 @ 15:39
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Sofalover wrote - Smooth Pete, you arrogant bastard what gives you the right to dictate to others what is acceptable. The only line in the sand I would draw is the one that I piss over your grave cunt.

Well that's not very nice is it? I wasn't dictating anything, I was just voicing my opinion in support of the BBFC, and if you have a problem with people having opinions that differ from yours, I'd suggest something more constructive than calling them a cunt and saying you'd piss on their grave. It detracts from whatever point you're trying to put across and makes you seem like an idiot. Well, seem like more of an idiot than you did already.

I have strong opinions on this topic, and I'll argue the point till the cows come home so if you actually want to discuss it I'd be happy to join in.
afghan_jones
13/07/07 @ 15:42
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@smoothpete,

I think I'm going to have to stop you there guys, because I'm sure I just heard... Yes, definitely, the cows have just come home and are putting the kettle on. Discussion over.

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