Maguire explains PS3 BC loss

By Tom Bramwell Published 5 October, 2007

Money going to games, price cut.

Sony UK boss Ray Maguire says that money previously invested in PlayStation 3's backwards compatibility with PS2 is better spent on new game development or helping to support hardware price cuts.

"As we come to our first Christmas with the PlayStation 3 there's going to be about 65 games in the marketplace, so we feel now that there's sufficient choice in the marketplace and that we're still better off using that money that we'd put into backwards compatibility in either investing in new games or using that money to help support bringing the price down so that people can get into the franchise," Maguire told our sister site GamesIndustry.biz in an interview due to be published on Monday.

He was speaking in light of today's news that Sony plans to launch a 40GB PlayStation 3 without backwards compatibility support on 10th October for GBP 299.

When PS3 first launched, Sony felt that backwards compatibility was an important feature as there were relatively few games for the new system, Maguire explained.

"So it was a big decision," he said of facility's removal, "and we know it is a very emotive subject as lots of people think that backwards compatibility is high on the agenda and yet few really use it."

For more of Maguire's reflections on the current state of PS3, check GamesIndustry.biz on Monday for the full interview.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (103) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Monkey #1 4 years ago

    It's been one of those days!
    :)

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #2 4 years ago

    Priceless :)

  • jonthepymm #3 4 years ago

    65 games? I've got both the good ones.

  • Razz #4 4 years ago

    LMFAO!

    I seem to remember a certain company berating Microsoft for saying something similar... hmmm... I wonder who it was. :D

  • crickson #5 4 years ago

    I use ps1 BC all the time on my ps2. I'm very unhappy at the thought of limited BC for the ps3. Compatibility over the playstation brand was a great move for sony, it's sad to see them backtrack.

  • krudster #6 4 years ago

    "few really use it" How do you know that Ray?

  • hidden_asbestos #7 4 years ago

    Isn't PS2 B/C done in software - that's obviously already been written.
    Am I missing something?

  • mcwildcard #8 4 years ago

    I've never used BC with my PS2 or my PS3, I think it's something that we've been made to think is important, when in actual fact it's only a tiny minority that ever use it.

  • crickson #9 4 years ago

    Why the playstation can't have a modular design is beyond me. It'd be ideal to buy BC as a plug-in unit, with memorycard readers built in...

  • OnlyMe #10 4 years ago

    Choice is all and good, but there need to be GOOD choices. And right now, there aren't many of those.

    The best games right now on PS3 are PS2 games (not unlike the Wii :p), and they're cheap, and they can be upscaled. Namely the biggest reason to buy a PS3 before christmas. They're insane. I hope this isn't going to continue, and that the BC will fade over time (for new consoles), and no more work will be done on BC because of this. I'm currently switching my multiplatform titles from Xbox to PS2 because of the BC.

    I also know a guy who's interested in a PS3 when it's cheaper, but I have a feeling he won't be too happy about it losing BC. He hates having more consoles at a time, he likes to keep his place clean (ahem) and tidy.

    EDIT: wait a minute! Won't this mean two different firmware releases?
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 16:44

  • AcidSnake #11 4 years ago

    @hidden_asbestos:

    Ofcourse you're missing something!
    The big picture!

    Like how they'll put the "Backwards Compatibility Kit" on PSN for 60€ or something...
    I wouldn't put it beyond them...

  • drumbaby #12 4 years ago

    If you want BC, get the more expensive SKU a few weeks later. Doesn't take that long to save that little bit of extra bunce, does it? Impatience isn't a virtue.

    No BC but pretty much everything else at £299? Everyone wanted a PS3. Not everyone could afford one. No excuses now, people. Not even the 'RROD' thing.

    Oops, sorry wrong machine ;)

  • De_Carabas #13 4 years ago

    This seems to be another bonehheaded move by Sony. Though I'd be more annoyed if this was the only SKU. I suppose its another sacrifice to get to that cheaper price. But as PS2 B/C is done in software I'm not sure how much of a saving this is.

  • crickson #14 4 years ago

    Perhaps Sony simply wants people like me to re-purchase all my favorite ps1 and 2 games as downloads.

  • OnlyMe #15 4 years ago

    Well, as long ast here are alternative units, I guess I don't bother too much. But it better damned well be a warning sign or something on the cheaper models.

  • Blerk #16 4 years ago

    BC is not totally software. There is (was) still a PS2 graphics chip on the PS3 motherboard. Removing that will have saved the money but zaps the BC in the process.

    Sorry to bold, but someone'll ask every three posts. :-)
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 16:54

  • bonker #17 4 years ago

    "Everyone wanted a PS3."

    ???

  • Psychotext #18 4 years ago

    @Blerk: Good man. =)

  • Nallen #19 4 years ago

    I've never used the PS2 backwards compatibility.

    But then I don't want a budget PS3 either...

  • Wrobel #20 4 years ago

    I doubt the Tard PS3 pack is actually any cheaper for Sony to produce.
    Any savings from taking away 2 of the USB ports & Backcompat would unlikely to be any cheaper especially since Sony will have to produce a new motherboard and casing. Even the wholesale costs of a 40Gb v 60Gb HD are unlikely to be much different.

    It is just a marketing exercise to appeal to parents buying little Jonny's Christmas present, while still getting more hardcore gamers to buy the higher price point.

  • Retroid #21 4 years ago

    Golfclap for Sony here. Like any cash they save on the 'new' machine will go to games development and not trying to cut on the losses they're making on it.

    COMING SOON TO PSN: More PS1 downloads AND NOW PS2

  • Steroyd #22 4 years ago

    Sony are muppets the 40GB is going to be seen as the tard pack and no-one will buy it.

    I used to champion the 20GB but the minor stuff like no Wifi and 20GB difference was enough for people willing to wait for the more expensive SKU to go cheaper and effectively trying to kill the PS2 off is another flabbergasting decision.

  • krudster #23 4 years ago

    If I was a selfish sonofabitch, I'd point out that this BC crap only makes the Test machines more desirable, as they're able to play every single PlayStation 1, 2, or 3 game from every territory, whether it's retail or review code. I wonder what people would pay for one of those?

  • dudefella #24 4 years ago

    So, wait. No back compat whatsoever, not even emulation? Why? Haven't they already got working software emulation? How come we can't have that then, it shouldn't cost them anything if it's already there on the US 80GB PS3s

  • Gurgeh #25 4 years ago

    "So, wait. No back compat whatsoever, not even emulation? Why? Haven't they already got working software emulation? How come we can't have that then, it shouldn't cost them anything if it's already there on the US 80GB PS3s "

    No BC == sell more PS3 games and blu-ray films.

  • Killerbee #26 4 years ago

    If I was a selfish sonofabitch, I'd point out that this BC crap only makes the Test machines more desirable, as they're able to play every single PlayStation 1, 2, or 3 game from every territory, whether it's retail or review code. I wonder what people would pay for one of those?

    For full, 100% backwards compatibility with all of my PS1 and PS2 games, yes, I'd pay a premium over the price of the status quo.

    Maguire says no one uses it, but I'm surely not the only person who likes to replay bona fide classic games like Final Fantasy VII or ICO once in a while?

    And look at how successful Nintendo's Virtual Console has been - when the Wii was launched there was a rush on Wavebird controllers whilst everyone took advantage of the backwards compatibility to play old Gamecube games - I don't see why Sony didn't identify this as a potential revenue stream - particularly given the fact that the PS2 is very much still alive and well in its own right.

    Poor decision.

  • Garulon #27 4 years ago

    "If you want BC, get the more expensive SKU a few weeks later. Doesn't take that long to save that little bit of extra bunce, does it?"

    Except according to the press release, once the current stock sells out, there is no expensive PS3. Just the cheaper one. And it's still £50 too expensive.

  • kangarootoo #28 4 years ago

    @krudster

    This is clearly a sore point for you :)

    Now I'm all for accurate info, so if anyone has any sources as to who cares about BC I'd be interested to see them. My gut feeling is that most people don't mind that much, but it is only a gut feeling.

    I have used the BC of both my 360 and Ps3, but if it wasn't there... I'm pretty sure I would live with it just fine (I used to use my old PS2 for GH and the old XB is still under the TV).

  • belziah #29 4 years ago

    Truth be told, without BC what the hell would us PS3 owners have been playing for the last 7 months.

    I want my £75 back you thieving feckers. I stated at the very first 3rooms event last year they were taking the piss with the price and its taken them this long to realize.

    David Reeves, you are the weakest link, goodbye!

  • Steroyd #30 4 years ago

    Maybe Sony's B/C stats are screwed because you log off when you boot up a PS2 game.

  • drumbaby #31 4 years ago

    "Except according to the press release, once the current stock sells out, there is no expensive PS3. Just the cheaper one. And it's still £50 too expensive. "

    Is that it forever, then? No 80gb sneaking in to replace the 60gb? I'd wait and see what happens in this fluid multi-SKU-driven console race.

    And £50 is still too expensive (BC/ card readers/ more USB slots/ bigger HDD)? Really?

    Get the £299 version then.

    :)

  • JDub #32 4 years ago

    The basic model might be seen as a 'tard' pack, but realistically, it still has half decent storage, wifi, blu-ray, HDMI and good HiDef support. Not bad at all. Pretty damn good in fact - Hardware wise, a better buy than the 360.

    So it's missing a couple of USBs, the mem card slots and BC - I've would've never missed them and have rarely used the latter. Should sell well IMO! :)

    /grabs coat

  • chronom4n #33 4 years ago

    for calling out loud, who, whenknowing that a ps2 costs next to nothing would worry about backwards comp. issues. At least there is the knowledge that the money is going into producing `(here's hoping!) better quality games. i for one am happy in the knowledge that now the playing field is levelled out, I can choose which ever machine i want.

  • steoc4 #34 4 years ago

    "BC is not totally software. There is (was) still a PS2 graphics chip on the PS3 motherboard. Removing that will have saved the money but zaps the BC in the process."


    Really? Then why was there all the bad press about how Sony "screwed us" by not including the hardware back when the console was released in Europe? As far as I know it's 100% emulation on European consoles.

    It confuses me, I really don't understand how removing BC saves money. I do think it's a tragedy aswell. With BC, the PS3 has a very valid claim to being the single console that can play the strongest library of games in the history of the industry. Without it, it's a far weaker proposition.

  • Skywise #35 4 years ago

    Terrible news to have new PS3 owners without BC, this won't encourage developers to make their PS2 games emulated on PS3 :-(

  • Veldaban #36 4 years ago

    "Really? Then why was there all the bad press about how Sony "screwed us" by not including the hardware back when the console was released in Europe? As far as I know it's 100% emulation on European consoles."

    The original European 60 GB model had PART of the PS2 hardware removed (ie, the "emotion engine" chip) so you needed software emulation to run the games. The new models have ALL of the PS2 hardware removed, and they're not making any software emultion for the removed components.

  • MaxiSleep #37 4 years ago

    chronom4n
    "for calling out loud, who, whenknowing that a ps2 costs next to nothing would worry about backwards comp. issues. At least there is the knowledge that the money is going into producing `(here's hoping!) better quality games. i for one am happy in the knowledge that now the playing field is levelled out, I can choose which ever machine i want. "

    The best way at present to play PS2 games is on a Ps3 if you have a hi def tv. Also it was sonys policy that BC was vital. Those idiots were scathing over the 360's lack of 100% BC The money savings as pointed out elsewhere here will be extremely limited (why? - sony own the ip for psii and they will have to re tool their lines for the new sku)
    Garghh but sony always manage a way to piss me off. (own all 3 consoles)

  • The12thMonkey #38 4 years ago

    Lack of backkwards compatibility is a deal breaker for me.

    I have limited space; I haven't got the ability to have all my consoles lined up ready to go at a moment's notice. I still get a lot of use from my PS2 collection, FFXII and KH2 in particular. Often, they are picked up on an impulse, and if I had to go through 5 or more minutes of unplugging a PS3, and digging out/plugging in my PS2, I would be annoyed.

    Secondly, my PS2 played a lot of PSX games when it was new. First games I played on my PS2 were FFs VIII and IX. I was old enough to be employed and I had money to invest in DVDs, so I also started using it as a DVD player months and months before an actual PS2 game ever entered the disc tray. I got the system in a March 2001. I didn't get a game for it until August. Until my PS2 collection was large enough to cater to new tastes, my PSX games got a lot of use. I forsee myself needing to use backwards compatibility when/if I eventually get a PS3. With the option removed, and no money on hand to grab one that does still have the setup, my purchase of a PS3 has now been driven well away from impulse or even planned purchase. It's into the realm of very cautious puchase, which for me means a raft of games I will want to play.

    Which brings me onto my next point, which is very subjective. Since I'll need a raft of PS3 games to play on a PS3 that can only play PS3 games, they had better be good. And I don't want people to quote me a list of supposed-triple-a titles. I know my gaming tastes. I've read previews of upcoming PS3 content, and it doesn't inspire me. Even FFXIII is leaving me cold since it looks like it's heading away from the excellent systems developed for XII. Which leaves only MGS4 as a potential reason for me to own a PS3. And in my opinion, one game does not a purchase make.

    Lastly, £300 is not cheap enough for me (I know, some will say "how cheap do you want it?!";), but it is getting better. I bought a 360 at launch, because it's lineup, even then, was an inticement for me. As I've said, PS3 doesn't excite me with it's lineup yet. But, and there is an important caveat, £300 would be an attractive price if I could still rely on my old games to fill in the spaces between the new games. I never had an XBox, so I had no back library to use in that case. I was attracted by its lineup and media options. If a £300 PS3 offered me my PS2 games as well, I'd be very tempted. But as it stands, too much is wrong with this package for me to part with cash. Sorry for the ramble, but I was trying to answer the "I don't think people really care about BC" issue.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #39 4 years ago

    What a GIANT pile of arse that quote is. Exactly how much money does he want us to believe they were spending on BC?

  • Scimarad #40 4 years ago

    It is a really big feature for me (Especially with the uspcaling) but I'm inclined to agree that most people couldn't give a crap about - Aside from a way to score cheap point of their console war 'enemy'...

    Anyway are you honestly telling me most people wouldn't fork out the extra to get the superior model?

  • VMerken #41 4 years ago

    @Kangarootoo
    BC is a factor for me. I still play a lot of PS1 and PS2 classics to keep my skills up to snuff (and to discover glitches and exploits, but that's another story). So I'd like the flagship SKU, especially if it's €599, to deliver full hardware BC, backed with software-powered enhancements. Alas, it wasn't meant to be for us PAL users.

    However, I am reasonable enough to put things into perspective. A €599 model without full hardware BC is a lot harder to swallow than a €399 model without BC. With €200, you can buy two PSTwos with PS1 BC if you so desire =). Or buy one and and chip it, but I wouldn't know how that works.

    In hindsight, here's an interesting question, I think...

    Overall, would Sony have lost less if they had just kept the EE in the SKU from the start instead of investing money on backwards compatibility software emulation and maintenance? Or is this simply cutting all the corners to stay in the game?

    Something we'll probably find out when this and the next console generation is obsolete.

    Either way, I'm glad Reeves kept his word and woke us up in october =)

  • The12thMonkey #42 4 years ago

    Egster: I didn't say it was the launch lineup that tempted me. It was the announced lineup of the 360 that I liked.

  • rotmm #43 4 years ago

    @ Egster - "the 360 line up was crap at launch, PS3's line up was much better. Especially for Europe."

    I know it's subjective, but I can't see that at all. I thought the PS3 launch lineup for Europe was especially poor and definately worse than the 360 launch titles. This could be that the majority of the PS3 titles had already been available on the 360 for some considerable time though, and key titles promised were missing.

  • Steroyd #44 4 years ago

    @Zero_cool

    B/C is overrated REALLY?

    Then why the hell is Nintendo boasting of having over 100 VC titles and about 2 million downloads?

    Nintendo are making money re-selling old titles B/C must have some significance, plus I'm still looking forward to Grimgoire and Odin Sphere it's not like I'm looking for old retro titles 10 years ago, the PS2 is still active.

  • mattigan #45 4 years ago

    But I thought BC was a major selling feature and reason to choose the PS3 over the 360? The internet never forgets.

    And all the criticisms of MS over the multiple SKUs a reason to choose PS3 over 360? The internet never forgets.

    The Cell and PS3 being multiple times more powerful than the 360? the internet never forgets.

    GT on the PSP? Killzone 2 at E3? Lies

  • bad09 #46 4 years ago

    To Egster "the 360 line up was crap at launch, PS3's line up was much better. Especially for Europe."

    Rubbish mate! 360 launch had some great games and you didn't have to wait a year for more great titles! Most of the PS3 launch games were 1 year old 360 games (that looked worse). At least you have Metal Gear sometime next year!

  • rotmm #47 4 years ago

    @ Egster : as opposed to actually being a Sony fanboy, congrats.

  • Eighthours #48 4 years ago

    @ mattigan : you sound like a good MS fanboy, congrats.

    Thing is, the mark of a fanboy is when they make things up or over-egg the pudding. Everything he said was factual. Nice try, though.
    Edited by 1 at 05/10/07 @ 21:53

  • mattigan #49 4 years ago

    360 Fanboy?

    I am at the moment, but I'm fickle, not dyed in the wool. The fact is since the PS3 was anounced Sony have been barefaced lying about what it can and will do but never actually producing the goods. I actually would be quite happy to buy a PS3 if it just did what they said it would do.

    Unfortunately for Sony, at the moment the 360 does what Sony said the PS3 would do, i.e. have the best games.

    When that changes then I might.

  • bad09 #50 4 years ago

    mattigan,

    The problem you have is the Sony Fan boys like egster just won't except MS have the better console this gen. I say that as a GAMER who has owned many consoles, including PSone, PS2 and currently own a PSP. Sony have messed this machine up from day one. The new dual shock, the price cut and redesign are all because hardly anyone wants PS3 over 360 or Wii and they are under pressure from developers to get consoles in homes!
    I have been waiting to be proven wrong by PS3 but the console has got less and less desirable for me as time has gone on. Now with the loss of B/C as well I think I will pass and stick with MS. Sorry Sony, maybe next gen!

  • Xerx3s #51 4 years ago

    I don't really care for BC so this is all good news for the likes of me (price cut) but I do find it funny that sony had to eat their words on some marketing PR spin for a second time in such a short notice.

  • Pulsar_t #52 4 years ago

    They could drop the BR drive as well, and get the pricing right (250 quid). And re-release all those padded games on DVD9 :p

    Ah Sony I'm truly sick of you.. but thanks for the PS2 it was a really good system.

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #53 4 years ago

    Except that the model with BC is being removed, so there's no choice. And not everyone wants 20 different bits of kit under their telly at once, which is why BC was invented in the first place, and trumpeted by Sony as a core feature.

  • Rirekon #54 4 years ago

    *cough*bullshit*cough*

  • Rev.StuartCampbell #55 4 years ago

    What's bullshit? Sony have said OFFICIALLY that the 60GB BC model is being discontinued, and that when current stocks run out the 40GB non-BC one will be the only option.

  • Rirekon #56 4 years ago

    Sorry Rev that wasn't aimed at you, was at Sony in general. Just bad timing on my reply ;)

  • Mr_V #57 4 years ago

    If BC is important to you (it is to me), this is even worse than it looks at first glance: With the 60GB model being sold off "while stocks last", Europe will be left with only the non-BC 40GB model. So you can *forget* about any future updates to that BC list for the territory.

    Backwards compatibility across the PlayStation range is simply a thing of the past for Europe.

    (And I wouldn't be overly surprised if they axe the current US 80GB software BC model in favour of a cheaper non-BC SKU. Which means that even American PS3 owners are screwed for BC, unless they have one of the original 20GB or 60GB models with full hardware BC.)

  • bonker #58 4 years ago

    "@ The12thMonkey : the 360 line up was crap at launch, PS3's line up was much better. Especially for Europe. "

    The PS3 can only dream of games of the quality of PGR3 and COD2 ...

    Not to mention the fact that we're talking about games that are fully TWO YEARS OLD here ...
    Edited by 1 at 06/10/07 @ 00:37

  • AOFanboi #59 4 years ago

    <em>The PS3 can only dream of games of the quality of PGR3 and COD2 ...</em>

    PGR3 = yet another rehash of the Dreamcast's MSR and will be matched by "GT 5" whatever it will be called, COD2 = yet another rehash of the WW2 shooter, and COD3 was released for the PS3 - are you clutching at straws by digging that far back?

    Dropping PS2 BC is stupid in relation to the vast PS2 market, but great for a 60GB-version owner like me since the second-hand market for my model will be great once the 40GB owners discover they still need to keep the PS2 under the telly to play PS2 games, when the Wii happily took the place of the Gamecube...

  • chicknstu #60 4 years ago

    Such a bad idea.

    Does this mean that they'll allow us to transfer all our PS2 singstar games to the new one now, since the line of defence on that front that was

    "Oh, there's no problem, they'll work fine with your PS3"

    is no longer valid

  • chicknstu #61 4 years ago

    "@ The12thMonkey : the 360 line up was crap at launch, PS3's line up was much better. Especially for Europe. "

    I must be living in a different Europe!

  • Daikon #62 4 years ago

    As quoted on UK:Resistance:

    "Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer.
    And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format.
    PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3" - Phil Harrison, Sony, December 2006.

  • chronom4n #63 4 years ago

    Basically, sony are saying this... if you want to have b/c on your machine then you better be buying the more expensive model. but if you can't be arsed with it then just buy the 299 model. can you imagine what happens parents buy their son/daughter or whoever else, the 299 model and they come home and find out that their machine does absolutely zero in playing all their old games?!

    If sony wanted people to buy their machine and they wanted to make it mass market then would it not have been better to have had this feature across the range? but then again, all i think Sony are after is to get a bigger user base across the land irrespective of whether the machine has b/c or not.

    Originally, i posted the thought that b/c is not a pre-requisite, but as one of the replies stated, if you are hardcore, then it is a biggie, but me personally, i ain't too fussed. ALL it comes down to with sony at the £299 price point is to increase the installed user base.

  • Steroyd #64 4 years ago

    COD 2 + PGR = Resistance + Motorstorm

  • oisin #65 4 years ago

    Lets get one thing straight; these executives don't give a hoot about your gaming happiness. By not supporting backwards compatibility, you'd be forced to buy new blu-ray game discs.. which would prop up shares and help Sony push their BR disc format down our throats.. just like they're using the sales of PS3s to cook the numbers about how consumer viable BluRay is. The way these hi-tech and other technical industries are run, is like digital totalitarianism.

  • J.C #66 4 years ago

    And yet people will still buy the fucking thing.

    Fucktards.

  • Xerx3s #67 4 years ago

    COD 2 + PGR = Resistance + Motorstorm

    Yeah but it also had condemned which did a pretty good job in scaring the pants of me.

  • Steroyd #68 4 years ago

    @oisin

    But Sony is effectively killing off their PS2 cashcow with this move THINK OF THE MONIES SONY.

    Which when you think of it doesn't make sense B/C allows market retention, I sure as hell wouldn't have got one 2 months ago if they took it out like this.

  • bad09 #69 4 years ago

    "COD 2 + PGR = Resistance + Motorstorm"

    Now that is funny! Trying to compare classic titles with average ones to justify their buy! PS3 fans you gotta love 'em!
    Resistance is an alien shooter not a WW2 shooter, and Motorstorm is an off road racer not a street racer. They are different games apart from being FPS and racers, nice try though!!

    To Xerx3s, I'm glad someone else was scared playing condemned, my mates laughed at me for that!! Can't wait for the sequel!!
    Edited by 1 at 06/10/07 @ 10:26

  • AOFanboi #70 4 years ago

    <em>can you imagine what happens parents buy their son/daughter or whoever else, the 299 model and they come home and find out that their machine does absolutely zero in playing all their old games?!</em>

    Yeah but as long as the PS2/PSTwo wasn't used in a swap/trade-in they will still have that. Though it's annoying to have to use one more box than necessary.

  • TriggerHippie #71 4 years ago

    I wonder if any of next years models will have BC? :)

  • visionrider #72 4 years ago

    Sony has also removed SACD playback from new model which means it will no longer play very high quality music discs which current machine does what else are they keeping hidden ?

  • SageFrancis #73 4 years ago

    I dont care about BC, I only used it to play Pro Evo and God Of War 2, but since Pro evo is coming out on PS3 and GOW3 will in the future, I have no need for BC. Move on ffs.

  • TriggerHippie #74 4 years ago

    This isn't about us having to 'move on'. This is about a "core value" of Sony's being dropped in a bid to make the ps3 more paletable in time for Christmas. Seriously, the things only been out for seven months in Europe and we've seen nearly that many bloody versions of the thing.

    Only the most fervant Sony fan could attempt to say that they haven't dropped the ball with the ps3. Its a good machine, and great games are coming no doubt, but Sony doesnt seem to have a coherent strategy for the thing and the constant u-turns and revisions just highlight the desperation that seems to be creeping in.

  • BonzoBanana #75 4 years ago

    I'm buying the 60gig model at £350 approx. Seems great value for a blu-ray player, ps2, ps1 and bang upto date console with two games. I have a 360 and realise that is the better console for games for the moment but its glitchy and to be honest I'm a bit sick and tired of the abysmal quality of the 360 with regards reliability. I'm on my fourth. So for me this is a great move. I just hope theres enough 60gig ps3s about to merit a bit of discounting. However I think a lot of people are going to want to buy this higher spec model while it lasts. Luckily theres probably a chunch of people that think the 40gig model must be better as its newer and they are totally motivated by price so a few quid saved will be enough for them.

  • Steroyd #76 4 years ago

    Now that is funny! Trying to compare classic titles with average ones to justify their buy! PS3 fans you gotta love 'em!
    Resistance is an alien shooter not a WW2 shooter, and Motorstorm is an off road racer not a street racer. They are different games apart from being FPS and racers, nice try though!!

    You're right that is funny, calling Resistance and Motorstorm 'Average' while COD 2 a WWII shooter (like we didn't see them before) and PGR a street racer (oh man yeah that is so diverse from Juiced and NFS) classics oh man that made me chuckle.

    You're right they are different games despite being the same genre, looks like I phailed trying to big up the PS3's launch titles.

  • firefly #77 4 years ago

    Let's not forget that £299 still isn't a mass market price.

    It was the price that the PS1 and PS2 launched at and it was the price that the original Xbox launched at before dropping within a few months. At that price Sony still need every single selling point they can get. Backwards Compatibility may not be the be all and end all of console marketing but does add a certain completeness to the package. Dropping this feature does also harm Sony's pretensions to a multimedia hub type device as the PS3 is now robbed of a seemingly basic function.

    The bottom line for me is that Sony are still asking more than I've ever paid for a console. The 40 gig pack may well have been the one to tempt me to part with my cash as I'd likely only use the HDD for game saves. Sadly just like the US 20 gig console they've paired a reasonable difference in storage with the crippling loss of a fundamental feature (wireless in that case). Of course if BC for Europe is to go away I doubt I have any choice but to purchase the 60 gig model soon.

  • Steroyd #78 4 years ago

    Don't worry the 40GB will fail and Sony will see sense of it all.

  • Retroid #79 4 years ago

    "PGR a street racer (oh man yeah that is so diverse from Juiced and NFS)"

    Ummm.... yes, it is. PGR uses real locations for its tracks and is quite staid, Juiced and NFS are "da bling shizzle innit!".

    So, yes: cars and streets = same game. If you're an idiot.

  • spud71 #80 4 years ago

    If the PS3 is next gen and the Cell is all powerfull, then why can't it play PS2 games? The PS2 plays PS1 games just fine, no need for software emulation. It's just powerful enough to achive this.

  • BonzoBanana #81 4 years ago

    The good thing about the ps3 is its also a blu-ray player and a good one at that. The ps3 software side is respectable and while I agree the 360 has a better range of games I don't believe its as cut and dry as people make out. To be honest I've been a bit disappointed with 360 games generally. Even the mighty bio-shock hasn't fully done it for me with its jacque cousteau/phantom of the opera feel being a bit naff in my opinion and the actual gameplay being very samey most of the time. Also I like ambitious out door worlds with huge landscapes rather than exploring small rooms all the time. I've played through about 60% so far and have done so at a leisurely rate as I don't feel that motivated to complete it so just play it occasionally. My favourite game on 360 is far cry and thats just a spruced up version of original xbox game. Gears of War comes second mainly as I don't like the 3rd person viewpoint which knocks it down a bit for me. I'm expecting the orange box to be my favourite game(s).

    I still play the original xbox more than 360. Mainly due to emulation and the fact the games are permantly on the hard drive so I don't have to get up.

  • oisin #82 4 years ago

    It seems fairly obvious that Sony 'agents' trawl these forums to write propaganda. Other companies were caught doing it also.. though I'm surprised people don't catch on, because their whole tactic hasn't really changed much in all these years. Maybe its a robot that generates the messages, but they clearly lack diversity or objectivity.. and all with the same inuendos of promoting or celebritising particular brands or products.

  • drunkymonkey #83 4 years ago

    Hell yes I care about B/C. As I only have room for one console in my room, having a console that can play three generations of games is a must. What happens if I still want to play Timesplitters 2, Vice City, Kingdom Hearts 2, and the rest of the gems, eh?

  • nuffmon #84 4 years ago

    I use BC all the time so this decision makes no sense to me at all, and i cannot see them saving much money from this. Doesn't bother me too much as i already have my PS3.

  • Lov3 #85 4 years ago

    I don't like that wording... "money previously invested in PlayStation 3's backwards compatibility with PS2 is better spent on new game development or helping to support hardware price cuts."

    Are they saying that they are going to phase out support for backwards compatibility altogether? Like, they won't be updating the B/C in the firmware of the B/C enabled consoles after a certain point? Because I know for a fact those consoles still have a long way to go before they are fully B/C, and if they stop development on it, it will make your £50 investment at this point pretty much worthless. Just like it is on the 360.

  • Daikon #86 4 years ago

    I don't know... this might be a good move. We need to look at the demographic that sony is targeting with this model.

    Yes, who are they trying to sell this to? It's a price cut, but it's still too expensive for kids.
    Also with the 360 being the current generation's console of choice (having better games and at a lower price) Sony is shooting themselves in the leg. Again.

    As for me, I'll get a PS3 in a year or so once here in Japan once the price has dropped to around 200 quid and there are some decent games out.
    Oh, and that PS3 WILL have full hardware based BC even at that price point. Japanese gamers don't put up with the things Sony has pulled on EU gamers.

  • barchetta #87 4 years ago

    What happens if your console needs repairing/replacing? (Speaking as a 360 owner on his 3rd console). Are Sony keeping a stock of EEs and still honouring the software BC to existing owners? Is the potential cancellation of the BC feature allowed under consumer rights law?

    And to think MS came under fire for confusing the market with multiple SKUs...

    The pricepoint interests me as a cheapish BR player with the games only interesting me as and when the 2nd/3rd wave may start to push the PS3.
    Edited by 1 at 07/10/07 @ 01:50

  • Les #88 4 years ago

    Fucking idiots

  • Goffee #89 4 years ago

    Ah, I love the smell of BS in the morning

  • drumbaby #90 4 years ago

    This will still be a cataclysmic decision by Sony even when this crippled 40gb piece of shit sells like hot cakes, I s'pose. ;)

  • _Price_ #91 4 years ago

    Ah well. It'll be a Falcon for me this Christmas then.

    At least they've made my decision easier I guess.

  • Steroyd #92 4 years ago

    But the 20GB was only missing WiFi and that didn't take off because of the cheaper price.

    The consumers aren't idiots and besides I want the 40GB to fail... spectacularly.

  • Xerx3s #93 4 years ago

    Buy both (or all next gen systems), you'll be happier. Brand loyalty = retarded.

    No, buying both systems just to own both is retarded. A normal person buys a system because it has enough good games that he likes available (or available in the near future) to justify the price of the purchase. Also, if the system you already own gives you more than enough good games, it is just wasting money to buy more systems.

  • Lov3 #94 4 years ago

    "Buy both (or all next gen systems), you'll be happier. Brand loyalty = retarded."

    Agreed. However, at the current price point thats a pretty ridiculous figure you're looking at there. £350 for a PS3 (a proper one), £250 for a 360, £160 for a Wii (woolworths price, heh. damn i'm tempted by that!). Who has £760 that they can spend on games machines? Even after you buy them, you'll have 2 games for each machine, rather than 15-20 games for a single platform. In 2 years that would be a great idea, but just not now.

  • mattigan #95 4 years ago

    Bear in mind that Premium 360's are currently going for around £200.

    Got my 360 before the PS3 came out, £290 with extra controller and PGR2, it ticks all the boxes for me, it went out of "non RROD" warranty in August and if it dies tomorrow, I will still have had my money's worth of entertainment out of it. I don't think I could say the same for the PS3, even at £300.

  • Les #96 4 years ago

    "Got my 360 before the PS3 came out, £290 with extra controller and PGR2, it ticks all the boxes for me, it went out of "non RROD" warranty in August and if it dies tomorrow, I will still have had my money's worth of entertainment out of it. I don't think I could say the same for the PS3, even at £300."

    Don't you mean "would want to" instead of "should"...

  • napalm68 #97 4 years ago

    Jeez, just buy a PS2 if you want to be able to play PS1 and PS2 games. If you don't already have one. And if you already have one, shut up.

  • 3william56 #98 4 years ago

    Damn Krudster, why the hate? You can still get BC if you want it, like mem cards and 4 USBs. You just have to pay a little more. What's the big deal? On a 360, you don't even get a hard drive with one model, and their BC was a total joke. So what? What's wrong with choice?

    And worst case, you can buy a second hand PS2 for b*gger all. 100% BC there!

    BC was initially an important point for me, in transferring to the PS3 when there was little but Motorstorm to play, so kept R&C and Black for non racing gaming. But now, with the PSN games, and big hitters like Warhawk, Oblivion and the rest out, plus 30 odd demos, and a lot more around the corner, those PS2 disks are going to the tradein bin.

    Fuss about nothing.

  • busboy33 #99 4 years ago

    What amazes me about this is Sony is shooting their only cash-cow game system (PS2) in the foot.
    PS2 is the source of all their revenue at this point. Developers keep making PS2 game because there is such huge installed base. BC allows the developers to go forward with more PS2 development, since the eventual shift to PS3s for many gamers won't disrupt the base of peope who can play the P2 games.
    Now . . . Sony has split the base, between PS2 and PS3. The one thing they had going for them was that PS2 base, and merging it in with PS3s. If I'm a developer, do I keep making games for a base that will now do nthing but shrink, as PS2 owners slowly move to "next gen" hardware? Probably not. So I stop making PS2 games, effectively choking the system to death.
    So now I'm looking to make games on the growing next-gen plaforms. Hmmm .. . I could make games for the Wii (largest installed base), or for the 360 (almost as big, plus I can easily port the game to the PC market), or I can make the game for the PS3 (*crickets chirping*).
    Unbelievable. They signed the death warrant for the only part of Sonyplaystation that made sense.

    http://ww w.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/0...
    Edited by 1 at 08/10/07 @ 07:05

  • Steroyd #100 4 years ago

    That's exactly what I was saying it's not just to fulfill my gamer needs it was helping Sony to. Nippon Ichi just announced a new game they're going to lose potential sales the more people who get B/Cless PS3 do they port it to the wii now?

  • Arwin #101 4 years ago

    So buy the 499 version. That's still great value. If you take the extra stuff you get with the 499 version (extra games and controller), calculate its value, take that off the 499, then subtract 399, you'll get the value of BC, 2 USB controllers, and extra memory car slots, I guess. ;)

    Seriously, at least the thing still has WiFi.

    And being a day one 60GB owner, I can say that yes in the beginning I used PS2 compat for a bit (Buzz mostly) but now the games are racking up so fast that I can't see myself using the BC anytime soon.

    It's mostly useful now for people with kids, but either you can set up a separate PS2 and TV up for the kids somewhere, which is a good idea anyway, or you can get the version that's a meagre 100 euro more expensive and gives you an extra controller and games, which is also worth it.

  • moggsy #102 4 years ago

    Yet another terrible decision by Sony. Yes, it wouldn't be so bad if they'd just decided to take BC out of one model, but by the sounds of this statement they'll be taking it out of all of the PS3's eventually.

    What's wrong with wanting to play some of the PS2's excellent back catalogue on your PS3? Why do Sony not embrace their own history and market the fact that when you buy a PS3 your buying into an enormous collection of fantastic games going all the way back to the PS1?

    Yet again, Sony seem to be flailing about, not knowing what to try next. This is particularly shocking from a company which made the whole Playstation brand such a success.

  • spunkymunkey #103 4 years ago

    Sony seem to be making all the wrong moves recently. The console itself is relatively sound, but all the marketing and support has been laughable. First they want to market it as a games machine, then its a media-centre, then the media capabiltilies are stripped down and its a games machine again.
    There are a lot of folks that know; there arent many decent PS3 games at the moment, but would still buy a PS3 as a media-centre/blu-rayplayer, and would like to play the decent back catologue of PS2 titles. The PS3, as a blu-ray/media centre, has been getting a lot good exposure recently as a quality peice of AV equipment. And people buying it were more concerned about features, rather than a £65 price cut (hmmm... isn't this what Sony wanted for the PS3?). It was just getting some momentum and consumer good will. Now, Sony are allienating this corner of the market. Getting rid of all the SD card readers and backwards compatability. Reducing the amount of USBs. And 40Gig HD?? The real laugh is that this is the only model that will be available after the 60Gig SKUs run out. No doubt they will bring out a version (at some point), with larger HD for the TV thing they have been busy pimping, but will they reintroduce BC and the missing connectivity for Europe? ....Im guessing no. Europe will roll over and moan for a bit, life will go on.
    These fucking dicks at Sony should have waited for the "games" to arrive. Games sell consoles - simple as. Instead, in a knee-jerk reaction (OMG-we're not meeting projected sales!!), they have lost sight of the bigger picture, gimped their console(again) and alienated the people that were actually buying the PS3 at the moment,
    When the PS3 launched here, i thought that Sony would be in it for the long haul - sittiing back and waiting for the decent titles to arrive, and then a marginal price cut, then reaping the reward. Now something seems to have ruffled their feathers. Something that breaks a lot, and has a Master Chief thingy.
    Edited by 1 at 09/10/07 @ 02:53