Maguire explains PS3 BC loss News

It's been one of those days!
:)

Priceless :)

65 games? I've got both the good ones.

LMFAO!

I seem to remember a certain company berating Microsoft for saying something similar... hmmm... I wonder who it was. :D

I use ps1 BC all the time on my ps2. I'm very unhappy at the thought of limited BC for the ps3. Compatibility over the playstation brand was a great move for sony, it's sad to see them backtrack.

"few really use it" How do you know that Ray?

Isn't PS2 B/C done in software - that's obviously already been written.
Am I missing something?

I've never used BC with my PS2 or my PS3, I think it's something that we've been made to think is important, when in actual fact it's only a tiny minority that ever use it.

Why the playstation can't have a modular design is beyond me. It'd be ideal to buy BC as a plug-in unit, with memorycard readers built in...

Choice is all and good, but there need to be GOOD choices. And right now, there aren't many of those.

The best games right now on PS3 are PS2 games (not unlike the Wii :P), and they're cheap, and they can be upscaled. Namely the biggest reason to buy a PS3 before christmas. They're insane. I hope this isn't going to continue, and that the BC will fade over time (for new consoles), and no more work will be done on BC because of this. I'm currently switching my multiplatform titles from Xbox to PS2 because of the BC.

I also know a guy who's interested in a PS3 when it's cheaper, but I have a feeling he won't be too happy about it losing BC. He hates having more consoles at a time, he likes to keep his place clean (ahem) and tidy.

EDIT: wait a minute! Won't this mean two different firmware releases?

@hidden_asbestos:

Ofcourse you're missing something!
The big picture!

Like how they'll put the "Backwards Compatibility Kit" on PSN for 60€ or something...
I wouldn't put it beyond them...

If you want BC, get the more expensive SKU a few weeks later. Doesn't take that long to save that little bit of extra bunce, does it? Impatience isn't a virtue.

No BC but pretty much everything else at £299? Everyone wanted a PS3. Not everyone could afford one. No excuses now, people. Not even the 'RROD' thing.

Oops, sorry wrong machine ;)

This seems to be another bonehheaded move by Sony. Though I'd be more annoyed if this was the only SKU. I suppose its another sacrifice to get to that cheaper price. But as PS2 B/C is done in software I'm not sure how much of a saving this is.

Perhaps Sony simply wants people like me to re-purchase all my favorite ps1 and 2 games as downloads.

Well, as long ast here are alternative units, I guess I don't bother too much. But it better damned well be a warning sign or something on the cheaper models.

BC is not totally software. There is (was) still a PS2 graphics chip on the PS3 motherboard. Removing that will have saved the money but zaps the BC in the process.

Sorry to bold, but someone'll ask every three posts. :-)

"Everyone wanted a PS3."

???

@Blerk: Good man. =)

I've never used the PS2 backwards compatibility.

But then I don't want a budget PS3 either...

I doubt the Tard PS3 pack is actually any cheaper for Sony to produce.
Any savings from taking away 2 of the USB ports & Backcompat would unlikely to be any cheaper especially since Sony will have to produce a new motherboard and casing. Even the wholesale costs of a 40Gb v 60Gb HD are unlikely to be much different.

It is just a marketing exercise to appeal to parents buying little Jonny's Christmas present, while still getting more hardcore gamers to buy the higher price point.

Golfclap for Sony here. Like any cash they save on the 'new' machine will go to games development and not trying to cut on the losses they're making on it.

COMING SOON TO PSN: More PS1 downloads AND NOW PS2

Sony are muppets the 40GB is going to be seen as the tard pack and no-one will buy it.

I used to champion the 20GB but the minor stuff like no Wifi and 20GB difference was enough for people willing to wait for the more expensive SKU to go cheaper and effectively trying to kill the PS2 off is another flabbergasting decision.

If I was a selfish sonofabitch, I'd point out that this BC crap only makes the Test machines more desirable, as they're able to play every single PlayStation 1, 2, or 3 game from every territory, whether it's retail or review code. I wonder what people would pay for one of those?

So, wait. No back compat whatsoever, not even emulation? Why? Haven't they already got working software emulation? How come we can't have that then, it shouldn't cost them anything if it's already there on the US 80GB PS3s

"So, wait. No back compat whatsoever, not even emulation? Why? Haven't they already got working software emulation? How come we can't have that then, it shouldn't cost them anything if it's already there on the US 80GB PS3s "

No BC == sell more PS3 games and blu-ray films.

If I was a selfish sonofabitch, I'd point out that this BC crap only makes the Test machines more desirable, as they're able to play every single PlayStation 1, 2, or 3 game from every territory, whether it's retail or review code. I wonder what people would pay for one of those?

For full, 100% backwards compatibility with all of my PS1 and PS2 games, yes, I'd pay a premium over the price of the status quo.

Maguire says no one uses it, but I'm surely not the only person who likes to replay bona fide classic games like Final Fantasy VII or ICO once in a while?

And look at how successful Nintendo's Virtual Console has been - when the Wii was launched there was a rush on Wavebird controllers whilst everyone took advantage of the backwards compatibility to play old Gamecube games - I don't see why Sony didn't identify this as a potential revenue stream - particularly given the fact that the PS2 is very much still alive and well in its own right.

Poor decision.

"If you want BC, get the more expensive SKU a few weeks later. Doesn't take that long to save that little bit of extra bunce, does it?"

Except according to the press release, once the current stock sells out, there is no expensive PS3. Just the cheaper one. And it's still £50 too expensive.

@krudster

This is clearly a sore point for you :)

Now I'm all for accurate info, so if anyone has any sources as to who cares about BC I'd be interested to see them. My gut feeling is that most people don't mind that much, but it is only a gut feeling.

I have used the BC of both my 360 and Ps3, but if it wasn't there... I'm pretty sure I would live with it just fine (I used to use my old PS2 for GH and the old XB is still under the TV).

Truth be told, without BC what the hell would us PS3 owners have been playing for the last 7 months.

I want my £75 back you thieving feckers. I stated at the very first 3rooms event last year they were taking the piss with the price and its taken them this long to realize.

David Reeves, you are the weakest link, goodbye!

Maybe Sony's B/C stats are screwed because you log off when you boot up a PS2 game.

"Except according to the press release, once the current stock sells out, there is no expensive PS3. Just the cheaper one. And it's still £50 too expensive. "

Is that it forever, then? No 80gb sneaking in to replace the 60gb? I'd wait and see what happens in this fluid multi-SKU-driven console race.

And £50 is still too expensive (BC/ card readers/ more USB slots/ bigger HDD)? Really?

Get the £299 version then.

:)

The basic model might be seen as a 'tard' pack, but realistically, it still has half decent storage, wifi, blu-ray, HDMI and good HiDef support. Not bad at all. Pretty damn good in fact - Hardware wise, a better buy than the 360.

So it's missing a couple of USBs, the mem card slots and BC - I've would've never missed them and have rarely used the latter. Should sell well IMO! :)

/grabs coat

for calling out loud, who, whenknowing that a ps2 costs next to nothing would worry about backwards comp. issues. At least there is the knowledge that the money is going into producing `(here's hoping!) better quality games. i for one am happy in the knowledge that now the playing field is levelled out, I can choose which ever machine i want.

"BC is not totally software. There is (was) still a PS2 graphics chip on the PS3 motherboard. Removing that will have saved the money but zaps the BC in the process."


Really? Then why was there all the bad press about how Sony "screwed us" by not including the hardware back when the console was released in Europe? As far as I know it's 100% emulation on European consoles.

It confuses me, I really don't understand how removing BC saves money. I do think it's a tragedy aswell. With BC, the PS3 has a very valid claim to being the single console that can play the strongest library of games in the history of the industry. Without it, it's a far weaker proposition.

Terrible news to have new PS3 owners without BC, this won't encourage developers to make their PS2 games emulated on PS3 :-(

"Really? Then why was there all the bad press about how Sony "screwed us" by not including the hardware back when the console was released in Europe? As far as I know it's 100% emulation on European consoles."

The original European 60 GB model had PART of the PS2 hardware removed (ie, the "emotion engine" chip) so you needed software emulation to run the games. The new models have ALL of the PS2 hardware removed, and they're not making any software emultion for the removed components.

chronom4n
"for calling out loud, who, whenknowing that a ps2 costs next to nothing would worry about backwards comp. issues. At least there is the knowledge that the money is going into producing `(here's hoping!) better quality games. i for one am happy in the knowledge that now the playing field is levelled out, I can choose which ever machine i want. "

The best way at present to play PS2 games is on a Ps3 if you have a hi def tv. Also it was sonys policy that BC was vital. Those idiots were scathing over the 360's lack of 100% BC The money savings as pointed out elsewhere here will be extremely limited (why? - sony own the ip for psii and they will have to re tool their lines for the new sku)
Garghh but sony always manage a way to piss me off. (own all 3 consoles)

smells desperation in the air... Lucky for Sony, Microsoft can't seem to crack Japan else it really would be all over for the PS3. Peoples confusion over the backwards compatibility is going to be staggering, I mean Sony now has 3 models a fully compatible one, a partially compatible one and a totally incompatible one, way to go Sony after slagging Microsoft off for having two different consoles! :)

Lack of backkwards compatibility is a deal breaker for me.

I have limited space; I haven't got the ability to have all my consoles lined up ready to go at a moment's notice. I still get a lot of use from my PS2 collection, FFXII and KH2 in particular. Often, they are picked up on an impulse, and if I had to go through 5 or more minutes of unplugging a PS3, and digging out/plugging in my PS2, I would be annoyed.

Secondly, my PS2 played a lot of PSX games when it was new. First games I played on my PS2 were FFs VIII and IX. I was old enough to be employed and I had money to invest in DVDs, so I also started using it as a DVD player months and months before an actual PS2 game ever entered the disc tray. I got the system in a March 2001. I didn't get a game for it until August. Until my PS2 collection was large enough to cater to new tastes, my PSX games got a lot of use. I forsee myself needing to use backwards compatibility when/if I eventually get a PS3. With the option removed, and no money on hand to grab one that does still have the setup, my purchase of a PS3 has now been driven well away from impulse or even planned purchase. It's into the realm of very cautious puchase, which for me means a raft of games I will want to play.

Which brings me onto my next point, which is very subjective. Since I'll need a raft of PS3 games to play on a PS3 that can only play PS3 games, they had better be good. And I don't want people to quote me a list of supposed-triple-a titles. I know my gaming tastes. I've read previews of upcoming PS3 content, and it doesn't inspire me. Even FFXIII is leaving me cold since it looks like it's heading away from the excellent systems developed for XII. Which leaves only MGS4 as a potential reason for me to own a PS3. And in my opinion, one game does not a purchase make.

Lastly, £300 is not cheap enough for me (I know, some will say "how cheap do you want it?!"), but it is getting better. I bought a 360 at launch, because it's lineup, even then, was an inticement for me. As I've said, PS3 doesn't excite me with it's lineup yet. But, and there is an important caveat, £300 would be an attractive price if I could still rely on my old games to fill in the spaces between the new games. I never had an XBox, so I had no back library to use in that case. I was attracted by its lineup and media options. If a £300 PS3 offered me my PS2 games as well, I'd be very tempted. But as it stands, too much is wrong with this package for me to part with cash. Sorry for the ramble, but I was trying to answer the "I don't think people really care about BC" issue.

What a GIANT pile of arse that quote is. Exactly how much money does he want us to believe they were spending on BC?

It is a really big feature for me (Especially with the uspcaling) but I'm inclined to agree that most people couldn't give a crap about - Aside from a way to score cheap point of their console war 'enemy'...

Anyway are you honestly telling me most people wouldn't fork out the extra to get the superior model?

@Kangarootoo
BC is a factor for me. I still play a lot of PS1 and PS2 classics to keep my skills up to snuff (and to discover glitches and exploits, but that's another story). So I'd like the flagship SKU, especially if it's €599, to deliver full hardware BC, backed with software-powered enhancements. Alas, it wasn't meant to be for us PAL users.

However, I am reasonable enough to put things into perspective. A €599 model without full hardware BC is a lot harder to swallow than a €399 model without BC. With €200, you can buy two PSTwos with PS1 BC if you so desire =). Or buy one and and chip it, but I wouldn't know how that works.

In hindsight, here's an interesting question, I think...

Overall, would Sony have lost less if they had just kept the EE in the SKU from the start instead of investing money on backwards compatibility software emulation and maintenance? Or is this simply cutting all the corners to stay in the game?

Something we'll probably find out when this and the next console generation is obsolete.

Either way, I'm glad Reeves kept his word and woke us up in october =)

Egster: I didn't say it was the launch lineup that tempted me. It was the announced lineup of the 360 that I liked.

@ Egster - "the 360 line up was crap at launch, PS3's line up was much better. Especially for Europe."

I know it's subjective, but I can't see that at all. I thought the PS3 launch lineup for Europe was especially poor and definately worse than the 360 launch titles. This could be that the majority of the PS3 titles had already been available on the 360 for some considerable time though, and key titles promised were missing.

@Zero_cool

B/C is overrated REALLY?

Then why the hell is Nintendo boasting of having over 100 VC titles and about 2 million downloads?

Nintendo are making money re-selling old titles B/C must have some significance, plus I'm still looking forward to Grimgoire and Odin Sphere it's not like I'm looking for old retro titles 10 years ago, the PS2 is still active.

But I thought BC was a major selling feature and reason to choose the PS3 over the 360? The internet never forgets.

And all the criticisms of MS over the multiple SKUs a reason to choose PS3 over 360? The internet never forgets.

The Cell and PS3 being multiple times more powerful than the 360? the internet never forgets.

GT on the PSP? Killzone 2 at E3? Lies

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_...

Snigger Snigger :)

To Egster "the 360 line up was crap at launch, PS3's line up was much better. Especially for Europe."

Rubbish mate! 360 launch had some great games and you didn't have to wait a year for more great titles! Most of the PS3 launch games were 1 year old 360 games (that looked worse). At least you have Metal Gear sometime next year!

@ Egster : as opposed to actually being a Sony fanboy, congrats.

@ mattigan : you sound like a good MS fanboy, congrats.

Thing is, the mark of a fanboy is when they make things up or over-egg the pudding. Everything he said was factual. Nice try, though.